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CNN Live Today
Claim by Terrorists Who Beheaded Johnson That Sympathizers in Saudi Government Helped Carry Out Crime
Aired June 21, 2004 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We will get started from CNN headquarters here in Atlanta. Good morning, I'm Daryn Kagan.
A South Korean hostage held by mass gunmen in Iraq pleads for his life. The kidnappers say they'll kill him unless South Korea pulls their troops out of Iraq. South Korea has sent a delegation to the Middle East, but officials insist they won't give in to the abductors' demands.
There is little official information coming out about the deaths of four U.S. servicemen in Iraq. The bodies of the four were found today in Ramadi. But coalition officials say the circumstances and the time of the deaths is not clear at this time.
And a military judge is ruling on Abu Ghraib prison, will at least delay President Bush's plans for that facility. The president has suggested tearing down the prison where the abuses occurred. The judge calls it a crime scene and has ordered that it remain standing, during trial proceedings for guards accused of prisoner abuses.
Iran has captured three British ships that it says crossed into territorial waters. Iranian television says that eight sailors have been arrested and weapons and maps have been confiscated. British officials say they haven't heard of any seizures of their boats or arrests.
And sources report that Connecticut Governor John Rowland will announce his resignation tonight. Rowland has been investigated for accepting gifts from friends, appointees and contractors. State lawmakers have been considering whether to impeach Rowland.
Live this hour, the future takes flight. The first privately developed rocket plane soars toward space, carrying with it a civilian and renewed hopes for a 21-century space race. There is a $10 million prize at stake awaiting the most successful private venture. And Spaceship 1 is the leading contender. Our Miles O'Brien will be joining us live from the Mojave Desert from California.
But first, there is a disturbing claim coming from the al Qaeda terrorists who beheaded American contractor Paul Johnson Jr. The killers posted a Web site claim that sympathizers within the Saudi government actually helped carry out the grisly crimes, by supplying police uniforms and vehicles.
Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson has been investigating those claims and he joins us now by phone -- Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INT'L. CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, this is not the first time that the al Qaeda elements inside Saudi Arabia have made these claims. After the bombing in November last year, they made a similar claim. Saudi authorities moved quickly then to dismiss it, saying that they weren't real police cars, as claimed by the al Qaeda. That they were in fact re-sprayed to look like it. The Saudi authorities now are moving equally swiftly to rebut these claims.
They're saying, No. 1, the claim by al Qaeda that they used police uniforms when they abducted Paul Johnson is untrue. They say people can buy or that they were given these police uniforms by people in the security services here. The officials hear say anyone can go out and buy a police uniform in Saudi Arabia and look like a policeman. They also say that they are conducting internal investigations to make sure that there is no collusion between anyone in the security forces and al Qaeda. They say they've been doing that for the last 18 months, and they haven't caught anyone.
However, some analysts do say that there has been at least one case where a member of the Saudi security forces was also connected with al Qaeda. They say while they don't know that that's going on at the moment, they cannot rule out the possibility. But Saudi authorities here being very clear, saying as far as they're concerned, they're not aware of it, and don't believe it is happening -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Nic, what about the search for Paul Johnson's body?
ROBERTSON: We're told that it's an ongoing operation. We're also told by Saudi security sources that because it's an ongoing operation, there are no details being released. The best information we have at this time is that the search is going on to the north of Riyadh. However, even that isn't clear at this time. Quite why there was confusion on Friday night into Saturday daytime, when initially Saudi authorities said that they had the body, and then -- Paul Johnson's body, then changed their statement. Quite why that happened still isn't clear either. Very few details about it. Only that we're told the search does continue -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Nic Robertson joining us by phone from Riyadh. Nic, thank you for that.
There are still more allegations. Saudi officials are vehemently denying persistent charges that members of the monarchy have secretly funneled money to terrorist groups.
Our Sean Callebs takes a closer look at that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Saudi officials say the killing of al Qaeda leader, Abdel Aziz al-Muqrin, dealt the organization a major blow. Muqrin is blamed for the murder of hostage Paul Johnson. On another front, U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow says Saudi funding to terrorist groups is also drying up.
JOHN SNOW, TREASURY SECRETARY: Over the course of the last year, Saudi Arabia has taken a number of really important steps.
CALLEBS: But that appears at odds with sentiments of other U.S. officials, like Senate majority leader Bill Frist.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), MAJORITY LEADER: I do think that Saudi Arabia could do more in terms of determining the financing of terrorist networks.
CALLEBS: Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are at the forefront in the war on terror. However, U.S. officials investigating the September 11 attacks say the two nations allowed Osama bin Laden to train tens of thousands of soldiers before 9/11, and spread his message of terror. Commission members and some senators contend Saudi Arabia and Pakistan allowed al Qaeda to raise money, recruit and develop tentacles deep within their countries.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI), ARMED SERVICES CMTE.: It was kind of a devil's bargain that took place between Saudi Arabia, I believe, and the terrorist groups.
JOHN LEHMAN, 9/11 COMMISSIONER: Pakistan and Saudi Arabia certainly turned a blind eye for a long period of time to al Qaeda operations, and al Qaeda operatives in their countries.
CALLEBS: Saudi officials bristle at the notion they funded al Qaeda, and point to the findings from the 9/11 Commission that cleared members of the royal family of allegedly funding the attackers.
ABDEL AL JUBEIR, ADVISER TO SAUDI CROWNED PRINCE: Absolute nonsense. We've been through this many times. Saudi Arabia stripped bin Laden of his -- excuse me, citizenship in the early '90s. We froze his assets. We declared him an outlaw. When he went to Afghanistan, we tried to negotiate with the Taliban for his extradition.
CALLEBS: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and the United Arab Emirates were the only nations that had diplomatic ties with the oppressive Taliban regime in Afghanistan before 9/11.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CALLEBS: Democratic Senator Frank Lautenberg is from Paul Johnson's home state of New Jersey. He says all further relations with Saudi Arabia must rest with the kingdom's effort to thwart the terrorism. Saying the deeds, not words must be the benchmark of Saudi progress -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Sean Callebs in Washington, D.C. Thank you.
And now the latest on the prisoner abuse scandal. In today's pretrial hearing for three of the U.S. soldiers who have been charged in the case, the presiding judge refused to move the military proceedings against Specialist Charles Graner Jr., Sergeant Javal Davis and Staff Sergeant Ivan Chip Frederick. The judge also declared Abu Ghraib prison, the site of the abuses, a crime scene. So it can't be demolished, as President Bush has suggested, at least for now. And speaking of the president, defense attorneys are saying they may want to question Mr. Bush or Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SPC. GUY WOMACK, CHARLES GRANER'S ATTY.: We do not think for a moment that Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld or President Bush did anything wrong. I think the legal advice they were given that these were not protected persons was absolutely correct. And we would like to flesh that out from talking to the secretary of defense.
Also, the secretary of defense, in waging a war on terrorism correctly, loosened the reins somewhat on interrogators. And ultimately, as that went down the chain of command, it accelerated. And by the time it got to Tier 1 Alpha in Abu Ghraib in Iraq, the junior officers and senior enlisted men in the military intelligence command, felt they had pretty free rein to do a lot of things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: And tomorrow, the first stage of the court-martial proceedings is to begin against Private First Class Lynndie England. She is the female soldier shown in two of the most notorious photos to emerge from that scandal.
The countdown to the U.S. handover in Iraq now stands at nine days. And as we draw closer, CNN is taking the pulse of world opinion. Today, CNN's Jim Clancy hosts a town hall forum in Dubai on the Arab world's obligation to Iraq and its relationship with the U.S. That's today at 1:00 p.m. Eastern, 10:00 a.m. Pacific right here on CNN.
History is being made at this hour, as the first privately built manned rocket takes its maiden voyage into space.
Our space correspondent Miles O'Brien joining us from California's Mojave Desert.
Good morning.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, there are about 25,000 feet above us right now. It's a two-ship combination. It's a big aircraft called White Knight, carrying a small spacecraft called Spaceship 1.
Let me just show you some pictures. I think we're still able to track it. I'm going to try to highlight it for you in the middle of this picture, if you can see it there. There way up there now, it's actually a pretty good shot. You can actually see it pretty well. There they are. And they are climbing up to about 50,000 feet. There we go. I'll give you a better highlight if I can, there. Climbing up to about 50,000 feet whereupon -- and the second craft, by the way, is a chase plane.
At 50,000 feet, that small 25-foot-long Spaceship 1 will drop off the mother ship. They will light the rocket and off they will go. Let me just show you some animation on how this is all going to go down. The actual powered rocket flight will go last, about a minute and 20 seconds. And the rocket there is a hybrid rocket, which actually burns tire rubber, and nitrous oxide. That's laughing gas and tire rubber. That's -- I kid you not. And no one is really laughing at the concept, because it's worked so far. Then after the motor goes off, about three minutes of weightlessness, and then as it comes down, these wings pivot like that. You see the way it pivots there? It drops like a shuttlecock, making it very simple for the pilot to return to earth.
Pilot, 62-year-old Mike Melville, has flown this thing -- this is now his ninth flight in it. But the first one that will reach space, which is defined as 100 kilometers or 62 1/2 miles. Finally, he wings will lock up as he comes down. The landing gear will come down and they'll land right behind us at about 100 miles an hour.
Watching it very closely with us and listening to the air-to- ground frequencies is Mike Melville's good friend, gets ready to make history here. Become the first civilian to go into space in a privately funded rocket is Dick Rutan, brother of Burt Rutan, the designer of this craft.
So far, what are they saying on the radio. Is everything routine?
DICK RUTAN, AVIATION ANALYST: OK. I've been listening to the conversation between the spacecraft and the mission control. It's called scum, for whatever reason. But anything -- everything is routine. They're calling down temperatures, the environmental control system and it looks like his cockpit is about a comfortable 86 degrees right now. And he's pressurized. They're probably down at sea level. So he's probably at a lower altitude than we are standing here right now. And they're just behind us right now and everything looks routine. And so far, so good.
O'BRIEN: I guess 86 degrees is comfortable if you live in the desert.
But in any case, Mike Melville, the pilot, you've literally flown around the world in him in a small -- pair of small airplanes. Is this the right man to be doing this historic thing?
RUTAN: Mike Melville is absolutely the right man. We both came out here and joined Burt in the late '70s. He came from South Africa, and I came from being an old fighter pilot looking for some more adventure. Mike and I have been flying planes for a long, long time. I trust him with my life. We've flown around the world together in two little home-built airplanes. The chase flight -- by the way, the chase airplane is with it called the Starship. Mike and I were the very first pilots to ever fly that airplane. And so that's just another little bit of history here in California.
O'BRIEN: All right. Assuming all goes well, and history is made here today, what -- put that into some historical perspective for us. What's that going to mean that you do a short sub-orbital hop? Something we did with Alan Shepherd 43 years ago. RUTAN: Well, the real significant thing about this is that it's not done by a massive, multi-billion-dollar, government bureaucracy. This is done by civilians. And civilian access to space. And somebody, Burt may be just be a homebuilder. And so now we've got home builders flying airplanes in space. And what that means is that a lot of people are going to realize, hey, this is not just a domain of the very wealthy or some government. Hey, you and I, Miles, we can do this, too.
O'BRIEN: Sign me up, will you? Let's go. Let's take a ride sometimes.
(LAUGHTER)
RUTAN: And that's the significance of it. Burt come up with an idea to do it inexpensively, and a different way to return from space.
O'BRIEN: All right. What's the biggest thing to be worried about today? Is it the reentry or just the lighting of the rocket itself?
RUTAN: Well, everything is routine right now. And they're climbing. They have it in after burner, both of the after burners -- they lit the after-burners at about 25,000 feet. And they're going to do an after burner climb. They want to get the spacecraft as high as possible, because every foot that they're low on their target altitude is something like 10 feet above. I mean 10 feet of less altitude above. So that's really critical. So they'll struggle to get every inch of altitude they can.
And when they turn into the launch box, they'll launch. They'll drop. Mike tells me -- don't tell anybody, but Mike says, I'm going to light this hummer real quick, because I don't want to lose any altitude. So he throws one switch, he gets an arm light up, and then throws the next one. And then he's got three Gs, right in his eyeballs. And he wants to get that thing vertical just as quick as we can.
O'BRIEN: All right, Dick. We promise we won't tell anybody about it.
All right Dick Rutan, brother of Burt Rutan, the designer of this craft. A famous pilot, he flew around the world on one tank of gas in '86 on a Burt designed plane called Voyager.
We're watching it closely for you. About 21 minutes into the flight. Probably about 40 minutes before they light the candle -- Daryn.
KAGAN: And question for you. So they're trying to go 62 miles up?
RUTAN: OK. They just lit the burners.
KAGAN: Just lit the burners. O'BRIEN: Yes. Six -- well, no, no. Just to clarify, when he says light the burners, he's talking about the mother ship. They're lighting the burners on it, so it can climb to about 50,000 feet.
KAGAN: OK.
O'BRIEN: And once it gets there, they drop the little craft. Then they light the rocket. I can see why you would be confused by that; it is a little bit confusing with two craft involved. But then they go -- they burn that rocket for about a minute 20 seconds. And that is a wild, screaming ride. He is really going to get a kick, so to speak.
KAGAN: OK. From a non-scientist point of view, when they're doing this, they're going to be so far up we won't be able to see them, correct?
O'BRIEN: Well, we will see a streak. We will see the steak of the rockets. And we'll be able to listen to the radio. But you're right, we don't -- we'll get some pictures from those chase planes that you see up there. They're a little bit closer, obviously. But from our vantage point down here, we'll just see a streak across the sky. And we'll listen and we'll hope everything goes well. But you're right; it's an awfully small craft and it's an awfully big sky.
KAGAN: So how will we really know they're as high as they say they are?
O'BRIEN: Ahh. You ask a good question.
KAGAN: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Could they fib? Is act -- there's actually -- there is actually -- you know we're near here, Daryn, Edwards Air Force Base. And as you can imagine, Edwards has some pretty sophisticated radar systems. They are going to be painting this particular flight today, as they say. And they will give an accurate altitude, what? Down to the inch?
RUTAN: Yes. Miles, what they have is there are two different tracking stations. The Air Force has one at Edwards and another one down at China Lake. And they will accurately track this thing. And visually -- and they can tell within about that far of his actual altitude. So there's really no way to cheat.
O'BRIEN: No cheating, no fibbing here, Daryn.
(LAUGHTER)
KAGAN: No cheating. All right. We're rooting them on there in Mojave Desert. We'll be back to you often.
O'BRIEN: All right.
KAGAN: Miles O'Brien, thank you for that. Well, he said he probably knows things that the 9/11 Commission doesn't. What does the vice president know? A live report from the White House coming up.
And three bodies tied together wash ashore in Wisconsin. A father and two young sons. A live report on that investigation.
Later, a trial date could be set today in the Kobe Bryant case. Harvey Levin checks the "Celebrity Justice" docket for us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: The world's most fabled tennis tournament, Wimbledon, gets under way in England. Some folks have camped out for the meager chance of gaining entry. Another option for the well heeled is buy a license that guarantees you a seat for the next five years. The cost $45,000, even more if you buy them second-hand. Which would explain, I guess, why some of the folks are camping out.
Coming up on CNN LIVE TODAY, memories of a controversial presidency summed up in well, just about 1,000 pages. An excerpt of the book ready by President Clinton just ahead.
And Gerri Willis joins me for some tips on living zoned.
Gerri, are you in the zone?
GERRI WILLIS, CNNFN PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR: I'm in the zone today, Daryn. Listen, hey, do you want to make a big change to your house this summer? Maybe you're looking for a big improvement? Don't run afoul of the local zoning board. We'll tell you how when CNN LIVE TODAY continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: Let's talk about your house. You might think you have everything you need from making improvements to your home. Or even outside of it. But before you start working, there still is one important thing you have to do.
Our FN personal finance editor Gerri Willis is here with today's "Top Five Tips."
Gerri, good morning.
WILLIS: Hey, Daryn. Good to see you. Well, you know, job No. 1, you have to understand the ABZ's of zoning. What is zoning? Well, there are local rules written to really keep people safe in their homes. For example, most rules don't let people put their houses too close together, because fire could you erupt and move to different houses quickly, right? But here's the deal. If you're making some kind of improvement, even a small improvement to your house, say you want to put a basketball court in the backyard; you could run afoul of local zoning ordinances.
So what do you do? Well, A-No. 1, go to your municipal Web site. Because like is not, they're going to have all the rules posted there. So you can get a sense at least of what you can do, and what you can't do -- Daryn.
KAGAN: So might get a good idea by looking around your neighborhood and surrounding homes?
WILLIS: That's absolutely right. Scope out the situation. Look at what other people are doing. And talk to those neighbors is critically important.
Daryn, the typical things that will spark a problem with the zoning board is: adding a big addition, putting in a pool, even making changes to your roof will probably guarantee you some kind of problem.
KAGAN: So maybe, you're the first on your block to think of this great idea. And you're hearing no. You don't have to necessarily have to take no for an answer?
WILLIS: No, you don't. You can get a variance. You can ask for a variance. And here's the deal. If you want to make -- put something up on your House, it isn't allowed by local law. And what you have to do is prove that you're a hardship case, that there's something different about your house that sets you aside from your neighbors, and should allow you to do this special thing. Now, I should mention here that your local architect that you're working with, your contractor can probably tell you that some of the ins and outs here. And what's more, you're going to have to probably get a building permit as well. That can cost up to 1 percent of the price of your whatever it is you're building or adding on. So it could really add up to some money -- Daryn.
KAGAN: What about the all-powerful homeowners' associations?
WILLIS: Oh, I've got to tell you. This could be a nightmare. Here's why. Homeowners' associations are more and more popular, and they tend to be even more restrictive than zoning boards. They're going to be upset if you change the color of your front door, maybe. So you've got to really watch out for them. Best thing to do before you move into your neighborhood, find out if there is a homeowners' association that you have to pay attention to, and just how restrictive they are -- Daryn.
KAGAN: All right. You might be trying to add on to have your mother-in-law come live with you or something like that. But your neighbor might think, you know what? You're going to be having a renter and they don't want that on their street.
WILLIS: You bet. Could be a big problem. A lot of things that people do don't even consider the zoning board. You're building an addition for granny, and the city is going to think, hey, you're increasing density in your neighborhood. And they don't like that. You'll have to pay attention to zoning rules there. And if you're running a business from your home, watch out. Because as soon as you have people pulling up and parking right in front of your house, could be a nightmare. Just words to the wise there, Daryn.
KAGAN: Gerri Willis. Hey, I have an idea for an upcoming segment for you.
WILLIS: OK?
KAGAN: Flip it around, what if you don't like what your neighbor is trying to build next door to you?
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIS: Sounds good. We'll do that, Daryn.
KAGAN: We faced that twice on our block here.
WILLIS: Not fun.
KAGAN: So we lost.
Gerri, look forward to that. Thank you so much.
WILLIS: Thank you.
KAGAN: What exactly does Dick Cheney know about 9/11, and will he share that information? Live report from the White House straight ahead.
Also ahead, Kobe Bryant and his accuser could find out the trial date today. I'll talk with "Celebrity Justice" with Harvey Levin.
This is CNN LIVE TODAY.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 21, 2004 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We will get started from CNN headquarters here in Atlanta. Good morning, I'm Daryn Kagan.
A South Korean hostage held by mass gunmen in Iraq pleads for his life. The kidnappers say they'll kill him unless South Korea pulls their troops out of Iraq. South Korea has sent a delegation to the Middle East, but officials insist they won't give in to the abductors' demands.
There is little official information coming out about the deaths of four U.S. servicemen in Iraq. The bodies of the four were found today in Ramadi. But coalition officials say the circumstances and the time of the deaths is not clear at this time.
And a military judge is ruling on Abu Ghraib prison, will at least delay President Bush's plans for that facility. The president has suggested tearing down the prison where the abuses occurred. The judge calls it a crime scene and has ordered that it remain standing, during trial proceedings for guards accused of prisoner abuses.
Iran has captured three British ships that it says crossed into territorial waters. Iranian television says that eight sailors have been arrested and weapons and maps have been confiscated. British officials say they haven't heard of any seizures of their boats or arrests.
And sources report that Connecticut Governor John Rowland will announce his resignation tonight. Rowland has been investigated for accepting gifts from friends, appointees and contractors. State lawmakers have been considering whether to impeach Rowland.
Live this hour, the future takes flight. The first privately developed rocket plane soars toward space, carrying with it a civilian and renewed hopes for a 21-century space race. There is a $10 million prize at stake awaiting the most successful private venture. And Spaceship 1 is the leading contender. Our Miles O'Brien will be joining us live from the Mojave Desert from California.
But first, there is a disturbing claim coming from the al Qaeda terrorists who beheaded American contractor Paul Johnson Jr. The killers posted a Web site claim that sympathizers within the Saudi government actually helped carry out the grisly crimes, by supplying police uniforms and vehicles.
Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson has been investigating those claims and he joins us now by phone -- Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INT'L. CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, this is not the first time that the al Qaeda elements inside Saudi Arabia have made these claims. After the bombing in November last year, they made a similar claim. Saudi authorities moved quickly then to dismiss it, saying that they weren't real police cars, as claimed by the al Qaeda. That they were in fact re-sprayed to look like it. The Saudi authorities now are moving equally swiftly to rebut these claims.
They're saying, No. 1, the claim by al Qaeda that they used police uniforms when they abducted Paul Johnson is untrue. They say people can buy or that they were given these police uniforms by people in the security services here. The officials hear say anyone can go out and buy a police uniform in Saudi Arabia and look like a policeman. They also say that they are conducting internal investigations to make sure that there is no collusion between anyone in the security forces and al Qaeda. They say they've been doing that for the last 18 months, and they haven't caught anyone.
However, some analysts do say that there has been at least one case where a member of the Saudi security forces was also connected with al Qaeda. They say while they don't know that that's going on at the moment, they cannot rule out the possibility. But Saudi authorities here being very clear, saying as far as they're concerned, they're not aware of it, and don't believe it is happening -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Nic, what about the search for Paul Johnson's body?
ROBERTSON: We're told that it's an ongoing operation. We're also told by Saudi security sources that because it's an ongoing operation, there are no details being released. The best information we have at this time is that the search is going on to the north of Riyadh. However, even that isn't clear at this time. Quite why there was confusion on Friday night into Saturday daytime, when initially Saudi authorities said that they had the body, and then -- Paul Johnson's body, then changed their statement. Quite why that happened still isn't clear either. Very few details about it. Only that we're told the search does continue -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Nic Robertson joining us by phone from Riyadh. Nic, thank you for that.
There are still more allegations. Saudi officials are vehemently denying persistent charges that members of the monarchy have secretly funneled money to terrorist groups.
Our Sean Callebs takes a closer look at that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Saudi officials say the killing of al Qaeda leader, Abdel Aziz al-Muqrin, dealt the organization a major blow. Muqrin is blamed for the murder of hostage Paul Johnson. On another front, U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow says Saudi funding to terrorist groups is also drying up.
JOHN SNOW, TREASURY SECRETARY: Over the course of the last year, Saudi Arabia has taken a number of really important steps.
CALLEBS: But that appears at odds with sentiments of other U.S. officials, like Senate majority leader Bill Frist.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), MAJORITY LEADER: I do think that Saudi Arabia could do more in terms of determining the financing of terrorist networks.
CALLEBS: Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are at the forefront in the war on terror. However, U.S. officials investigating the September 11 attacks say the two nations allowed Osama bin Laden to train tens of thousands of soldiers before 9/11, and spread his message of terror. Commission members and some senators contend Saudi Arabia and Pakistan allowed al Qaeda to raise money, recruit and develop tentacles deep within their countries.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI), ARMED SERVICES CMTE.: It was kind of a devil's bargain that took place between Saudi Arabia, I believe, and the terrorist groups.
JOHN LEHMAN, 9/11 COMMISSIONER: Pakistan and Saudi Arabia certainly turned a blind eye for a long period of time to al Qaeda operations, and al Qaeda operatives in their countries.
CALLEBS: Saudi officials bristle at the notion they funded al Qaeda, and point to the findings from the 9/11 Commission that cleared members of the royal family of allegedly funding the attackers.
ABDEL AL JUBEIR, ADVISER TO SAUDI CROWNED PRINCE: Absolute nonsense. We've been through this many times. Saudi Arabia stripped bin Laden of his -- excuse me, citizenship in the early '90s. We froze his assets. We declared him an outlaw. When he went to Afghanistan, we tried to negotiate with the Taliban for his extradition.
CALLEBS: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and the United Arab Emirates were the only nations that had diplomatic ties with the oppressive Taliban regime in Afghanistan before 9/11.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CALLEBS: Democratic Senator Frank Lautenberg is from Paul Johnson's home state of New Jersey. He says all further relations with Saudi Arabia must rest with the kingdom's effort to thwart the terrorism. Saying the deeds, not words must be the benchmark of Saudi progress -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Sean Callebs in Washington, D.C. Thank you.
And now the latest on the prisoner abuse scandal. In today's pretrial hearing for three of the U.S. soldiers who have been charged in the case, the presiding judge refused to move the military proceedings against Specialist Charles Graner Jr., Sergeant Javal Davis and Staff Sergeant Ivan Chip Frederick. The judge also declared Abu Ghraib prison, the site of the abuses, a crime scene. So it can't be demolished, as President Bush has suggested, at least for now. And speaking of the president, defense attorneys are saying they may want to question Mr. Bush or Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SPC. GUY WOMACK, CHARLES GRANER'S ATTY.: We do not think for a moment that Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld or President Bush did anything wrong. I think the legal advice they were given that these were not protected persons was absolutely correct. And we would like to flesh that out from talking to the secretary of defense.
Also, the secretary of defense, in waging a war on terrorism correctly, loosened the reins somewhat on interrogators. And ultimately, as that went down the chain of command, it accelerated. And by the time it got to Tier 1 Alpha in Abu Ghraib in Iraq, the junior officers and senior enlisted men in the military intelligence command, felt they had pretty free rein to do a lot of things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: And tomorrow, the first stage of the court-martial proceedings is to begin against Private First Class Lynndie England. She is the female soldier shown in two of the most notorious photos to emerge from that scandal.
The countdown to the U.S. handover in Iraq now stands at nine days. And as we draw closer, CNN is taking the pulse of world opinion. Today, CNN's Jim Clancy hosts a town hall forum in Dubai on the Arab world's obligation to Iraq and its relationship with the U.S. That's today at 1:00 p.m. Eastern, 10:00 a.m. Pacific right here on CNN.
History is being made at this hour, as the first privately built manned rocket takes its maiden voyage into space.
Our space correspondent Miles O'Brien joining us from California's Mojave Desert.
Good morning.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, there are about 25,000 feet above us right now. It's a two-ship combination. It's a big aircraft called White Knight, carrying a small spacecraft called Spaceship 1.
Let me just show you some pictures. I think we're still able to track it. I'm going to try to highlight it for you in the middle of this picture, if you can see it there. There way up there now, it's actually a pretty good shot. You can actually see it pretty well. There they are. And they are climbing up to about 50,000 feet. There we go. I'll give you a better highlight if I can, there. Climbing up to about 50,000 feet whereupon -- and the second craft, by the way, is a chase plane.
At 50,000 feet, that small 25-foot-long Spaceship 1 will drop off the mother ship. They will light the rocket and off they will go. Let me just show you some animation on how this is all going to go down. The actual powered rocket flight will go last, about a minute and 20 seconds. And the rocket there is a hybrid rocket, which actually burns tire rubber, and nitrous oxide. That's laughing gas and tire rubber. That's -- I kid you not. And no one is really laughing at the concept, because it's worked so far. Then after the motor goes off, about three minutes of weightlessness, and then as it comes down, these wings pivot like that. You see the way it pivots there? It drops like a shuttlecock, making it very simple for the pilot to return to earth.
Pilot, 62-year-old Mike Melville, has flown this thing -- this is now his ninth flight in it. But the first one that will reach space, which is defined as 100 kilometers or 62 1/2 miles. Finally, he wings will lock up as he comes down. The landing gear will come down and they'll land right behind us at about 100 miles an hour.
Watching it very closely with us and listening to the air-to- ground frequencies is Mike Melville's good friend, gets ready to make history here. Become the first civilian to go into space in a privately funded rocket is Dick Rutan, brother of Burt Rutan, the designer of this craft.
So far, what are they saying on the radio. Is everything routine?
DICK RUTAN, AVIATION ANALYST: OK. I've been listening to the conversation between the spacecraft and the mission control. It's called scum, for whatever reason. But anything -- everything is routine. They're calling down temperatures, the environmental control system and it looks like his cockpit is about a comfortable 86 degrees right now. And he's pressurized. They're probably down at sea level. So he's probably at a lower altitude than we are standing here right now. And they're just behind us right now and everything looks routine. And so far, so good.
O'BRIEN: I guess 86 degrees is comfortable if you live in the desert.
But in any case, Mike Melville, the pilot, you've literally flown around the world in him in a small -- pair of small airplanes. Is this the right man to be doing this historic thing?
RUTAN: Mike Melville is absolutely the right man. We both came out here and joined Burt in the late '70s. He came from South Africa, and I came from being an old fighter pilot looking for some more adventure. Mike and I have been flying planes for a long, long time. I trust him with my life. We've flown around the world together in two little home-built airplanes. The chase flight -- by the way, the chase airplane is with it called the Starship. Mike and I were the very first pilots to ever fly that airplane. And so that's just another little bit of history here in California.
O'BRIEN: All right. Assuming all goes well, and history is made here today, what -- put that into some historical perspective for us. What's that going to mean that you do a short sub-orbital hop? Something we did with Alan Shepherd 43 years ago. RUTAN: Well, the real significant thing about this is that it's not done by a massive, multi-billion-dollar, government bureaucracy. This is done by civilians. And civilian access to space. And somebody, Burt may be just be a homebuilder. And so now we've got home builders flying airplanes in space. And what that means is that a lot of people are going to realize, hey, this is not just a domain of the very wealthy or some government. Hey, you and I, Miles, we can do this, too.
O'BRIEN: Sign me up, will you? Let's go. Let's take a ride sometimes.
(LAUGHTER)
RUTAN: And that's the significance of it. Burt come up with an idea to do it inexpensively, and a different way to return from space.
O'BRIEN: All right. What's the biggest thing to be worried about today? Is it the reentry or just the lighting of the rocket itself?
RUTAN: Well, everything is routine right now. And they're climbing. They have it in after burner, both of the after burners -- they lit the after-burners at about 25,000 feet. And they're going to do an after burner climb. They want to get the spacecraft as high as possible, because every foot that they're low on their target altitude is something like 10 feet above. I mean 10 feet of less altitude above. So that's really critical. So they'll struggle to get every inch of altitude they can.
And when they turn into the launch box, they'll launch. They'll drop. Mike tells me -- don't tell anybody, but Mike says, I'm going to light this hummer real quick, because I don't want to lose any altitude. So he throws one switch, he gets an arm light up, and then throws the next one. And then he's got three Gs, right in his eyeballs. And he wants to get that thing vertical just as quick as we can.
O'BRIEN: All right, Dick. We promise we won't tell anybody about it.
All right Dick Rutan, brother of Burt Rutan, the designer of this craft. A famous pilot, he flew around the world on one tank of gas in '86 on a Burt designed plane called Voyager.
We're watching it closely for you. About 21 minutes into the flight. Probably about 40 minutes before they light the candle -- Daryn.
KAGAN: And question for you. So they're trying to go 62 miles up?
RUTAN: OK. They just lit the burners.
KAGAN: Just lit the burners. O'BRIEN: Yes. Six -- well, no, no. Just to clarify, when he says light the burners, he's talking about the mother ship. They're lighting the burners on it, so it can climb to about 50,000 feet.
KAGAN: OK.
O'BRIEN: And once it gets there, they drop the little craft. Then they light the rocket. I can see why you would be confused by that; it is a little bit confusing with two craft involved. But then they go -- they burn that rocket for about a minute 20 seconds. And that is a wild, screaming ride. He is really going to get a kick, so to speak.
KAGAN: OK. From a non-scientist point of view, when they're doing this, they're going to be so far up we won't be able to see them, correct?
O'BRIEN: Well, we will see a streak. We will see the steak of the rockets. And we'll be able to listen to the radio. But you're right, we don't -- we'll get some pictures from those chase planes that you see up there. They're a little bit closer, obviously. But from our vantage point down here, we'll just see a streak across the sky. And we'll listen and we'll hope everything goes well. But you're right; it's an awfully small craft and it's an awfully big sky.
KAGAN: So how will we really know they're as high as they say they are?
O'BRIEN: Ahh. You ask a good question.
KAGAN: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Could they fib? Is act -- there's actually -- there is actually -- you know we're near here, Daryn, Edwards Air Force Base. And as you can imagine, Edwards has some pretty sophisticated radar systems. They are going to be painting this particular flight today, as they say. And they will give an accurate altitude, what? Down to the inch?
RUTAN: Yes. Miles, what they have is there are two different tracking stations. The Air Force has one at Edwards and another one down at China Lake. And they will accurately track this thing. And visually -- and they can tell within about that far of his actual altitude. So there's really no way to cheat.
O'BRIEN: No cheating, no fibbing here, Daryn.
(LAUGHTER)
KAGAN: No cheating. All right. We're rooting them on there in Mojave Desert. We'll be back to you often.
O'BRIEN: All right.
KAGAN: Miles O'Brien, thank you for that. Well, he said he probably knows things that the 9/11 Commission doesn't. What does the vice president know? A live report from the White House coming up.
And three bodies tied together wash ashore in Wisconsin. A father and two young sons. A live report on that investigation.
Later, a trial date could be set today in the Kobe Bryant case. Harvey Levin checks the "Celebrity Justice" docket for us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: The world's most fabled tennis tournament, Wimbledon, gets under way in England. Some folks have camped out for the meager chance of gaining entry. Another option for the well heeled is buy a license that guarantees you a seat for the next five years. The cost $45,000, even more if you buy them second-hand. Which would explain, I guess, why some of the folks are camping out.
Coming up on CNN LIVE TODAY, memories of a controversial presidency summed up in well, just about 1,000 pages. An excerpt of the book ready by President Clinton just ahead.
And Gerri Willis joins me for some tips on living zoned.
Gerri, are you in the zone?
GERRI WILLIS, CNNFN PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR: I'm in the zone today, Daryn. Listen, hey, do you want to make a big change to your house this summer? Maybe you're looking for a big improvement? Don't run afoul of the local zoning board. We'll tell you how when CNN LIVE TODAY continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: Let's talk about your house. You might think you have everything you need from making improvements to your home. Or even outside of it. But before you start working, there still is one important thing you have to do.
Our FN personal finance editor Gerri Willis is here with today's "Top Five Tips."
Gerri, good morning.
WILLIS: Hey, Daryn. Good to see you. Well, you know, job No. 1, you have to understand the ABZ's of zoning. What is zoning? Well, there are local rules written to really keep people safe in their homes. For example, most rules don't let people put their houses too close together, because fire could you erupt and move to different houses quickly, right? But here's the deal. If you're making some kind of improvement, even a small improvement to your house, say you want to put a basketball court in the backyard; you could run afoul of local zoning ordinances.
So what do you do? Well, A-No. 1, go to your municipal Web site. Because like is not, they're going to have all the rules posted there. So you can get a sense at least of what you can do, and what you can't do -- Daryn.
KAGAN: So might get a good idea by looking around your neighborhood and surrounding homes?
WILLIS: That's absolutely right. Scope out the situation. Look at what other people are doing. And talk to those neighbors is critically important.
Daryn, the typical things that will spark a problem with the zoning board is: adding a big addition, putting in a pool, even making changes to your roof will probably guarantee you some kind of problem.
KAGAN: So maybe, you're the first on your block to think of this great idea. And you're hearing no. You don't have to necessarily have to take no for an answer?
WILLIS: No, you don't. You can get a variance. You can ask for a variance. And here's the deal. If you want to make -- put something up on your House, it isn't allowed by local law. And what you have to do is prove that you're a hardship case, that there's something different about your house that sets you aside from your neighbors, and should allow you to do this special thing. Now, I should mention here that your local architect that you're working with, your contractor can probably tell you that some of the ins and outs here. And what's more, you're going to have to probably get a building permit as well. That can cost up to 1 percent of the price of your whatever it is you're building or adding on. So it could really add up to some money -- Daryn.
KAGAN: What about the all-powerful homeowners' associations?
WILLIS: Oh, I've got to tell you. This could be a nightmare. Here's why. Homeowners' associations are more and more popular, and they tend to be even more restrictive than zoning boards. They're going to be upset if you change the color of your front door, maybe. So you've got to really watch out for them. Best thing to do before you move into your neighborhood, find out if there is a homeowners' association that you have to pay attention to, and just how restrictive they are -- Daryn.
KAGAN: All right. You might be trying to add on to have your mother-in-law come live with you or something like that. But your neighbor might think, you know what? You're going to be having a renter and they don't want that on their street.
WILLIS: You bet. Could be a big problem. A lot of things that people do don't even consider the zoning board. You're building an addition for granny, and the city is going to think, hey, you're increasing density in your neighborhood. And they don't like that. You'll have to pay attention to zoning rules there. And if you're running a business from your home, watch out. Because as soon as you have people pulling up and parking right in front of your house, could be a nightmare. Just words to the wise there, Daryn.
KAGAN: Gerri Willis. Hey, I have an idea for an upcoming segment for you.
WILLIS: OK?
KAGAN: Flip it around, what if you don't like what your neighbor is trying to build next door to you?
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIS: Sounds good. We'll do that, Daryn.
KAGAN: We faced that twice on our block here.
WILLIS: Not fun.
KAGAN: So we lost.
Gerri, look forward to that. Thank you so much.
WILLIS: Thank you.
KAGAN: What exactly does Dick Cheney know about 9/11, and will he share that information? Live report from the White House straight ahead.
Also ahead, Kobe Bryant and his accuser could find out the trial date today. I'll talk with "Celebrity Justice" with Harvey Levin.
This is CNN LIVE TODAY.
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