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CNN Live At Daybreak
Prisoner Abuse Scandal, Going on Trial; America's Voice; Clinton's Memoirs in Bookstores Today
Aired June 22, 2004 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you from the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta. I'm Carol Costello. Let me bring you up to date right now.
Iran says it will prosecute eight armed British sailors and Marines for illegally entering Iranian waters. The crewmen were detained while in a main waterway that divides Iraq and Iran near the Persian Gulf. Britain says the sailors were delivering a boat to Iraq's new patrol service.
At least 46 people were killed during fierce fighting in the region of Russia next to Chechnya. Chechen fighters are among the rebels who tried to seize government buildings in that region.
In money news, gas prices have fallen for the fourth straight week. The average price for a gallon of regular unleaded stands at $1.93. That's still 44 cents more than it cost a year ago.
In culture, what is the essence of Beyonce? Tommy Hilfiger will unveil a new fragrance this fall that's supposed to capture her spirit. It will be called True Star.
And in sports, 47-year-old Martina Navratilova was victorious in her first-round match at Wimbledon. The nine-time Wimbledon champion lost just one game en route to her win over 24-year-old Catalina Castano. Navratilova is the oldest woman to win at Wimbledon since 1922.
(WEATHER BREAK)
COSTELLO: A soldier charged in the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal is at a pretrial court-martial hearing that is taking place right now. And that story tops our situation report out of Iraq.
Staff Sergeant Ivan "Chip" Frederick was originally set to be in court yesterday, but that proceeding was delayed because of his attorney was having trouble getting to Baghdad.
The U.S. is releasing more prisoners from Abu Ghraib this morning. Over the past two months more than 2,000 prisoners have been set free. Three buses pulled away from the facility this morning, marking the seventh release in seven days.
Military officials say they found four Marines dead west of Baghdad in the Iraqi town of Ramadi. So far, the military is not saying how they died. And we're getting word this morning from the South Korean News Agency that a South Korean hostage in Iraq is still alive and that the deadline for his beheading has been extended. His captors vowed to kill him if South Korea doesn't agree to stop deploying troops to Iraq.
A hearing scheduled today for Lynddie England in the Iraq prisoner abuse scandal has now been pushed back to July. You must know her by now. She's become the face of the prison abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib. She's being held at Fort Bragg in North Carolina.
And joining us live this morning from Kansas City, retired lieutenant colonel and military lawyer, Jonathan Tomes, to help us sort all of this out -- the hearings that are taking place in Iraq, the hearings that will take place in North Carolina.
Welcome to DAYBREAK.
JONATHAN TOMES, FORMER U.S. ARMY JAG (RET.): Thank you.
COSTELLO: Let's start with England. Her pretrial hearing was postponed because one of her lawyers dropped out. We don't know why. But is that to be expected in these kinds of things?
TOMES: It's not unusual, particularly when you get civilian counsel involved, who may or may not have the familiarity with the court-martial system or have a lot more conflicting matters than the typical military defense counsel that would only be doing military cases.
COSTELLO: So, is it better to have military attorneys rather than civil?
TOMES: Well, it depends. I think you need an attorney who is familiar with the military system. So, if I were going to look for a civilian attorney I would certainly look for a former judge advocate general corps officer or someone that knew the military system. I wouldn't want to be represented by someone who had no experience with courts-martial.
But civilian attorneys can bring a little more aggressive defense forth than a military counsel who, after all, gets promoted within the system that he might have to attack in order to defend his client.
COSTELLO: But you know what? If I were on trial in this particular case and I knew, I had the idea back in my mind that the military wanted to scapegoat for this prison abuse scandal, I might be yearning for a civilian attorney.
TOMES: I think that's exactly why so many of them have gotten civilian attorneys, which they have to pay for out of their own pocket or have somebody else pay for it. The military gives you a free military counsel, and you may request military counsel of your own choice if reasonably available. But the military will not fund civilian counsel. COSTELLO: A last question for you, because yesterday during the pretrial hearings in Iraq there was word that some of the attorneys wanted President Bush to testify, Donald Rumsfeld to testify. Do you think that will happen?
TOMES: It's extremely unlikely. I think the military judge ruled even that some of the documents generated at that level which purported to indicate that the law of war didn't need to be followed were inadmissible at this point absent some kind of indication that these low-ranking military police persons had actual knowledge of those things.
I do think the defense should be allowed to put on a defense of following superior orders, and I do think it's quite possible that some responsibility is far higher up than these individuals. But you have to have a nexus between those high-level policies in what was actually understood on the ground at the prison.
COSTELLO: Well, it will be interesting, because both Abizaid and Sanchez are going to testify -- at least that's what we found out from the pretrial hearings yesterday in Baghdad.
Lieutenant Colonel Tomes, thank you for joining us from Kansas City this morning.
TOMES: My pleasure.
COSTELLO: To American politics and Bill Clinton, his tome, "My Life," comes out today, and it's already a bestseller. But will the book rehabilitate Clinton's image?
Gallup has some interesting numbers on that and more, so let's head live to Princeton, New Jersey, and Gallup Poll editor-in-chief Frank Newport.
Frank, good morning.
FRANK NEWPORT, GALLUP POLL EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Good morning, Carol.
I guess the impact of the book depends on how many Americans are going to wade through 900-plus pages, but we can tell you where Clinton's image before the book is widely disseminated.
Polarized -- that's not a great shock when we all think back to the eight years of Clinton in office. We just recently asked: How will Clinton go down in history? This is not of historians but of the American public. About 31 percent say he will be above average, 6 percent outstanding, 25 above average. Then there's a group of about a third in the middle, average. Below average, that's 38 percent -- 23 and 15 when you add those two together. Slightly more Americans say below average and poor than above average or outstanding. Again, a very divided image of Bill Clinton.
By the way, we forget how he fared while he was in those eight years in office. Average, Carol, was 55 percent overall. But look how that differed. He really suffered job approval-wise in the first few years of his administration, but he recovered just in time to get re-elected.
And then the amazing fact of the Bill Clinton administration is notice how high those ratings are on the right-hand side just when he was being impeached for the Monica Lewinsky scandal. The highest rating of his administration came at that very point.
COSTELLO: Oh!
NEWPORT: And we're still puzzling over exactly what was behind that. But that's what happened in the Clinton administration.
COSTELLO: You really would not expect that. How strange is that?
Frank, I want to talk about Connecticut Governor John Rowland. We haven't talked much about him this morning, but he finally resigned over allegations of corruption in Connecticut. Any fallout from that?
NEWPORT: Well, front-page news, of course, in many Eastern newspapers. He had to resign under pressure, about to be impeached, it looked like.
Will that hurt the image of state governors and politicians? Unfortunately, no, because the image was so terrible to begin with.
Look at our most recent poll on the honesty and ethics of professions. High -- state governors were at 26 percent, way down the list. Journalists at about that point. Remember, the Congress is actually lower at 17 percent.
So, I don't think these kinds of episodes are going to have a great deal of impact, because Americans didn't have a huge degree of trust in their governors to begin with -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Well, journalists are below the governors, so that's really depressing.
NEWPORT: By one point.
COSTELLO: By one point.
You know, there's still a lot of debate this week over whether Iraq had extensive ties to al Qaeda before the 9/11 attacks. The 9/11 Commission says one thing, the White House says another. So, where does the public come down in all of this?
NEWPORT: Well, I've really been reviewing a lot of that data that ask Americans about the connection. Less than half now think that there was a direct connection between Saddam Hussein and 9/11. But depending on how you ask it, you can get a clear majority who still agree -- the public, that is -- that there were some ties between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda in general.
Here's the latest poll I could find, a Harris interactive poll through the 15th of June. There is the number, 69 percent say yes to the way they worded the question, which was some kind of support between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda. So, the public is still buying into the general notion that there was a connection -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Frank Newport live in Princeton, New Jersey. Thank you for some interesting numbers this morning.
Time for a little business buzz right now. Thanks to an improving economy, a recent report finds that Americans are still willing to share their good fortune.
Carrie Lee has more on that story live from the Nasdaq Marketsite.
In what particular way -- Carrie?
CARRIE LEE, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS: Well, giving money to charities, Carol. Americans gave about $240.7 billion last year, in 2003, and that's holding pretty steady from the prior year. This is according to Giving USA, which is a survey published from various charities. Estimated giving in 2003 actually equaled about 2.2 percent of our nation's gross domestic products, and that's the fifth year since 1971 that contributions exceeded that 2 percent mark.
Why people are feeling so generous? Well, we did see the job market pick up. The stock market didn't do too badly either. It gained some grounds there. And also the economy stabilized.
It's kind of interesting, though, because, of course, we have the situation in the Middle East. We are at war. And there are some threats here involving national security maybe making some people feel insecure.
Also, we have more and more charities coming about. The numbers of charities are rising at a faster rate than charitable giving.
So, even when you think about these negatives, pretty robust figures here and rather encouraging perhaps for some of these charitable groups -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Thanks for the good news this morning. Carrie Lee live from the Nasdaq Marketsite.
Still to come on DAYBREAK, we've been asking the question all morning: What effect, if any, will Bill Clinton's memoir have on his legacy? We will pose that question to a couple of guys on either side of the political fence in today's hot talker. DAYBREAK will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Our hot talker of the morning, "My Life," of course, Bill Clinton's book. A phenomenon or a country hungry for lurid details?
Joining us live, conservative libertarian syndicated talker Neal Boortz, and liberal talker Mike Malloy.
Welcome to you both. MIKE MALLOY, LIBERAL RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hey, Carol.
NEAL BOORTZ: Good morning.
COSTELLO: Well, you know, Clinton's book has been near the top of Amazon.com's bestseller list for the past month before it even came out. Demand is so high at the online retailer that even the audio book and the large-print edition were among the top 10 best sellers. In New York, they've been waiting in line for hours to buy Clinton's book and to hear him speak.
Neal, let's begin with you. Why the intense interest in this book?
BOORTZ: Well, I mean, Clinton is a rock star. He is the most dynamic powerful personality to occupy the White House in my lifetime, maybe ever. And when he shows up, crowds show up. I guess the best explanation I can give you, Carol, is that he is part of the great American celebrity culture and right at the top of it.
COSTELLO: So, Mike, does that do anything for the Democrats politically?
MALLOY: I don't think so, except to point out the glaring difference between more than adequate leadership in this country, which is Bill Clinton's eight years, and George Bush. I've mentioned that before, Carol. I think the comparison is pretty stark.
BOORTZ: Well, I agree. I think people will note the difference between Bill Clinton and George Bush while all of the publicity is going on for this book. They will recognize that George Bush treats the White House with respect and dignity and bring some sense of morality to that job.
COSTELLO: And having said that, Neal, I want to read an e-mail.
BOORTZ: OK.
COSTELLO: This is from Gene from Las Vegas. He says: "Say what you want about Bill Clinton, but when compared to today's events, the biggest problem of the day was who was under his desk. I would rather have those times again."
We've been getting a lot of e-mails about that. So, apparently some viewers would rather have immorality than what's happening now at the White House.
BOORTZ: Well, there is somebody that knows how to send an e-mail but doesn't understand the history of the last 10 years. We would not be having these problems today, with al Qaeda for instance, or the Middle East, if Bill Clinton had paid more attention to what was on top of his desk than what was underneath his desk.
COSTELLO: Oh, that's not what he's saying, is he, Mike?
MALLOY: Well, you know, this saw -- this old, tired saw by the right-wing, and I'm surprised that my friend, Neal Boortz, is saying something like this...
BOORTZ: Oh, you're not surprised by it.
MALLOY: The people who attacked this country on Clinton's watch are in prison. They're not launching strikes against our soldiers. They are in prison.
Now, as far as Clinton being attacked by the right-wing, when you take a look at who is attacking him -- gambling addicts, drug addicts, perjurers, liars -- I would say that Clinton is on pretty solid ground. As long as people like that -- and I'm talking about Oliver North or Limbaugh or Newt Gingrich -- as long as people like that are attacking him, I would say that Clinton is on pretty solid ground with his book.
COSTELLO: Neal?
BOORTZ: Well, let's remember, Mike -- and I don't know which addiction category I fall into. I'll find out later. Mike and I will go get breakfast after we do this.
COSTELLO: Oh, sure.
MALLOY: Flying. You're a pilot addict.
BOORTZ: OK. But anyway, I know one person that Bill Clinton had his grips on that is not in jail. His name is Osama bin Laden, handed to Bill Clinton by the Sudanese in the mid-1990s. And now Bill Clinton, apparently his mind was elsewhere, and he decided not to take advantage of that.
MALLOY: Absolute fabrication.
BOORTZ: Yes, right.
MALLOY: As the Sudanese say, that event never occurred. That's just like meeting Atta in -- where was it, Neal? Yugoslavia. These are manufactured events by the right-wing. They just simply didn't happen.
COSTELLO: OK. Well, let's get right back on topic, because some of the Clinton enemies are coming out of the closet. Remember Kathleen Willey? She accused the president of sexual harassment? Well...
MALLOY: She's back!
COSTELLO: She's back! Wait a minute.
BOORTZ: Wait a minute. She's an enemy? She was a victim of sexual abuse, and she's an enemy?
MALLOY: Ah!
COSTELLO: Now wait a second. Let's play her sound byte, and then we'll debate. BOORTZ: OK.
COSTELLO: Play it, Mr. Director -- Ms. Director, I should say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHLEEN WILLEY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE WORKER: I think he ought to rename the book. It ought to be "My Lies by Bill Clinton" instead of "My Life," because I think it's just going to be a book full of all of the fabrication that he is so well known for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALLOY: Oh my. Oh my. What fabrication? Too bad Kathleen Willey couldn't put at least one fabrication down on paper and read it off for the camera.
BOORTZ: Did we get Juanita Broaddrick here?
COSTELLO: No, I don't have any sound byte from here.
BOORTZ: Oh, that's ashamed.
COSTELLO: I know.
BOORTZ: You know, "my sexual conquest." Maybe that will be his next book.
MALLOY: Kathleen Willey, that's great. That's great. Where did they get these people, Carol? They keep resurrecting, pulling them out of what? The swamps?
BOORTZ: Mike? Mike, I'll tell you...
MALLOY: The mist?
BOORTZ: I'll tell you where they get them. She comes to Bill Clinton in a moment of need asking for a job and ends up getting fondled and groped in the Oval Office.
MALLOY: Oh! Oh, Neal, you're...
BOORTZ: Right about there, Mike. Right about there. You've got it.
MALLOY: You're breaking my heart! You're breaking my heart, and it's not even 7:00 in the morning. You're breaking my heart. Oh!
COSTELLO: Neal, those allegations were never proved true!
MALLOY: Thank you, Carol.
COSTELLO: Well, they weren't. I mean, that's just the facts.
MALLOY: Thank you. BOORTZ: OK, Carol, here's a fact for you. Bill Clinton has never to this day and did not in that book, he has never denied raping Juanita Broaddrick.
COSTELLO: Oh, Neal!
BOORTZ: He never denied it.
MALLOY: Well...
BOORTZ: I'm sorry, he hasn't. Find it.
COSTELLO: Neal!
MALLOY: Neal...
BOORTZ: Find me Bill Clinton's denial.
MALLOY: Neal, you've never denied robbing a bank either. That doesn't mean you did it.
BOORTZ: Well, accuse me and I'll deny it.
COSTELLO: All right...
MALLOY: You robbed a bank.
COSTELLO: We have to stop the debate on that low note. But it was an awful lot of fun.
BOORTZ: Always.
COSTELLO: Neal and Mike, always fun. Thank you. Every Tuesday they're here debating the issues.
MALLOY: We are.
COSTELLO: Your news, money, weather and sports. It is 6:49 Eastern. Here's what's all new this morning.
Russian troops have repelled rebels who were trying to seize government buildings in a republic near Chechnya. You're looking at new pictures we got in this morning from the scene. As many as 46 people are reported dead in hours of heavy fighting.
Iranian media is reporting that the government may put eight British sailors and Marines on trial for entering Iranian waters. The men were seized, along with their three naval vessels, in a waterway between Iraq and Iran.
In money news, Martha Stewart is fresh from a meeting with stockholders. She told them her conviction for lying about a stock sale should not affect her namesake company.
And in culture, Whitney Houston is heading to Shanghai next month for her first concert in China. She says China is her favorite country.
In sports, Mike Tyson has been granted a boxing license in New Jersey, but the governor says Tyson won't be allowed to fight in any state-owned or operated facility. It's been six years since Tyson swore at New Jersey regulators during a licensing hearing.
(WEATHER BREAK)
COSTELLO: Those are the latest headlines for you. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Those two guys are coming to blows over this.
COSTELLO: I'm still laughing about Neal and Mike. But the debate is over.
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: It's time to talk of happy things -- happy things like the DAYBREAK mug.
MYERS: The DAYBREAK coffee mug of the day and the questions from yesterday. Name the one-man show that Paul Burrell is putting together about Princess Di. And it's called "In His Own Words," not "in my own words." I got a lot of those. And what's the name of the jet engine of the airplane that will be taking the rocket-propelled Spaceship One into space? And that little thing that was taking the spaceship up was called White Knight.
And the winner, Stephanie Cook in Osaka, Japan.
COSTELLO: Stephanie living in Japan.
MYERS: Wow!
COSTELLO: Congratulations!
MYERS: Primetime in Japan over there.
COSTELLO: It is indeed.
MYERS: And now the questions for today. In a recent Gallup Poll, what percentage of people thought that governors generally had the highest levels of honesty and ethics? And No. 2, name the man who became the first person to pilot a privately-built aircraft, Spaceship One, what was his name?
Daybreak@CNN.com.
COSTELLO: Oh, you remembered the e-mail address. I'm so proud of you.
MYERS: I'm practicing at home now. COSTELLO: Daybreak@CNN.com. And to Stephanie, the cup is in the mail in extra bubble wrap to make it to Japan.
MYERS: I hope so.
COSTELLO: We'll be back with "The Lightning Round" right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: We're having too much fun behind the scenes.
MYERS: Really.
COSTELLO: Let's hit "The Lightning Round," shall we? Take a good look at this thing. The thing draped around this man's body, it's his hair. Twenty feet of hair! He hasn't had it cut in 31 years, which puts him in the Vietnamese Guinness Book of World Records.
MYERS: There is a Vietnamese Guinness Book of World Records? And there's one in Laos and there's one in Cambodia as well? Could you imagine what a hot oil treatment would cost for that guy? Dang!
COSTELLO: We were trying to come up with how many bottles of shampoo it would take to wash his hair.
MYERS: I guess once.
COSTELLO: Maybe he never washes it. It's dread-locked now, baby.
This Thursday, Chad...
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: ... some of Eric Clapton's most prized possessions will be auctioned off in New York.
MYERS: Oh, no!
COSTELLO: The legendary musician will part with acoustic and electric guitars that he has owned for most of his career. He needs some money. Just kidding.
MYERS: No, no, it's going for a great cause.
COSTELLO: Yes. Just kidding, I'm sorry. The proceeds will benefit a treatment addiction center that Clapton's set up in Antigua.
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: I'm just going to go straight down to HE22 (ph) picks for that.
The only kind of guitar these rock star wannabes know is how to play the air guitar. The winner of this competition -- there she is. She has never picked up a real instrument. Can you believe it?
MYERS: I can, because she was way down below where the strings are. She was, like, playing the bottom of the guitar rather than the (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
COSTELLO: Well, it doesn't matter, because the woman you saw will represent the United States in the world competitions to be held later in Finland.
MYERS: Maybe it's the jumping around that they liked.
COSTELLO: I think that was a man -- anyway.
MYERS: We're out of time.
COSTELLO: We're out of time. We've got to go. "AMERICAN MORNING" starts right now. You make it one great day.
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Aired June 22, 2004 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you from the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta. I'm Carol Costello. Let me bring you up to date right now.
Iran says it will prosecute eight armed British sailors and Marines for illegally entering Iranian waters. The crewmen were detained while in a main waterway that divides Iraq and Iran near the Persian Gulf. Britain says the sailors were delivering a boat to Iraq's new patrol service.
At least 46 people were killed during fierce fighting in the region of Russia next to Chechnya. Chechen fighters are among the rebels who tried to seize government buildings in that region.
In money news, gas prices have fallen for the fourth straight week. The average price for a gallon of regular unleaded stands at $1.93. That's still 44 cents more than it cost a year ago.
In culture, what is the essence of Beyonce? Tommy Hilfiger will unveil a new fragrance this fall that's supposed to capture her spirit. It will be called True Star.
And in sports, 47-year-old Martina Navratilova was victorious in her first-round match at Wimbledon. The nine-time Wimbledon champion lost just one game en route to her win over 24-year-old Catalina Castano. Navratilova is the oldest woman to win at Wimbledon since 1922.
(WEATHER BREAK)
COSTELLO: A soldier charged in the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal is at a pretrial court-martial hearing that is taking place right now. And that story tops our situation report out of Iraq.
Staff Sergeant Ivan "Chip" Frederick was originally set to be in court yesterday, but that proceeding was delayed because of his attorney was having trouble getting to Baghdad.
The U.S. is releasing more prisoners from Abu Ghraib this morning. Over the past two months more than 2,000 prisoners have been set free. Three buses pulled away from the facility this morning, marking the seventh release in seven days.
Military officials say they found four Marines dead west of Baghdad in the Iraqi town of Ramadi. So far, the military is not saying how they died. And we're getting word this morning from the South Korean News Agency that a South Korean hostage in Iraq is still alive and that the deadline for his beheading has been extended. His captors vowed to kill him if South Korea doesn't agree to stop deploying troops to Iraq.
A hearing scheduled today for Lynddie England in the Iraq prisoner abuse scandal has now been pushed back to July. You must know her by now. She's become the face of the prison abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib. She's being held at Fort Bragg in North Carolina.
And joining us live this morning from Kansas City, retired lieutenant colonel and military lawyer, Jonathan Tomes, to help us sort all of this out -- the hearings that are taking place in Iraq, the hearings that will take place in North Carolina.
Welcome to DAYBREAK.
JONATHAN TOMES, FORMER U.S. ARMY JAG (RET.): Thank you.
COSTELLO: Let's start with England. Her pretrial hearing was postponed because one of her lawyers dropped out. We don't know why. But is that to be expected in these kinds of things?
TOMES: It's not unusual, particularly when you get civilian counsel involved, who may or may not have the familiarity with the court-martial system or have a lot more conflicting matters than the typical military defense counsel that would only be doing military cases.
COSTELLO: So, is it better to have military attorneys rather than civil?
TOMES: Well, it depends. I think you need an attorney who is familiar with the military system. So, if I were going to look for a civilian attorney I would certainly look for a former judge advocate general corps officer or someone that knew the military system. I wouldn't want to be represented by someone who had no experience with courts-martial.
But civilian attorneys can bring a little more aggressive defense forth than a military counsel who, after all, gets promoted within the system that he might have to attack in order to defend his client.
COSTELLO: But you know what? If I were on trial in this particular case and I knew, I had the idea back in my mind that the military wanted to scapegoat for this prison abuse scandal, I might be yearning for a civilian attorney.
TOMES: I think that's exactly why so many of them have gotten civilian attorneys, which they have to pay for out of their own pocket or have somebody else pay for it. The military gives you a free military counsel, and you may request military counsel of your own choice if reasonably available. But the military will not fund civilian counsel. COSTELLO: A last question for you, because yesterday during the pretrial hearings in Iraq there was word that some of the attorneys wanted President Bush to testify, Donald Rumsfeld to testify. Do you think that will happen?
TOMES: It's extremely unlikely. I think the military judge ruled even that some of the documents generated at that level which purported to indicate that the law of war didn't need to be followed were inadmissible at this point absent some kind of indication that these low-ranking military police persons had actual knowledge of those things.
I do think the defense should be allowed to put on a defense of following superior orders, and I do think it's quite possible that some responsibility is far higher up than these individuals. But you have to have a nexus between those high-level policies in what was actually understood on the ground at the prison.
COSTELLO: Well, it will be interesting, because both Abizaid and Sanchez are going to testify -- at least that's what we found out from the pretrial hearings yesterday in Baghdad.
Lieutenant Colonel Tomes, thank you for joining us from Kansas City this morning.
TOMES: My pleasure.
COSTELLO: To American politics and Bill Clinton, his tome, "My Life," comes out today, and it's already a bestseller. But will the book rehabilitate Clinton's image?
Gallup has some interesting numbers on that and more, so let's head live to Princeton, New Jersey, and Gallup Poll editor-in-chief Frank Newport.
Frank, good morning.
FRANK NEWPORT, GALLUP POLL EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Good morning, Carol.
I guess the impact of the book depends on how many Americans are going to wade through 900-plus pages, but we can tell you where Clinton's image before the book is widely disseminated.
Polarized -- that's not a great shock when we all think back to the eight years of Clinton in office. We just recently asked: How will Clinton go down in history? This is not of historians but of the American public. About 31 percent say he will be above average, 6 percent outstanding, 25 above average. Then there's a group of about a third in the middle, average. Below average, that's 38 percent -- 23 and 15 when you add those two together. Slightly more Americans say below average and poor than above average or outstanding. Again, a very divided image of Bill Clinton.
By the way, we forget how he fared while he was in those eight years in office. Average, Carol, was 55 percent overall. But look how that differed. He really suffered job approval-wise in the first few years of his administration, but he recovered just in time to get re-elected.
And then the amazing fact of the Bill Clinton administration is notice how high those ratings are on the right-hand side just when he was being impeached for the Monica Lewinsky scandal. The highest rating of his administration came at that very point.
COSTELLO: Oh!
NEWPORT: And we're still puzzling over exactly what was behind that. But that's what happened in the Clinton administration.
COSTELLO: You really would not expect that. How strange is that?
Frank, I want to talk about Connecticut Governor John Rowland. We haven't talked much about him this morning, but he finally resigned over allegations of corruption in Connecticut. Any fallout from that?
NEWPORT: Well, front-page news, of course, in many Eastern newspapers. He had to resign under pressure, about to be impeached, it looked like.
Will that hurt the image of state governors and politicians? Unfortunately, no, because the image was so terrible to begin with.
Look at our most recent poll on the honesty and ethics of professions. High -- state governors were at 26 percent, way down the list. Journalists at about that point. Remember, the Congress is actually lower at 17 percent.
So, I don't think these kinds of episodes are going to have a great deal of impact, because Americans didn't have a huge degree of trust in their governors to begin with -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Well, journalists are below the governors, so that's really depressing.
NEWPORT: By one point.
COSTELLO: By one point.
You know, there's still a lot of debate this week over whether Iraq had extensive ties to al Qaeda before the 9/11 attacks. The 9/11 Commission says one thing, the White House says another. So, where does the public come down in all of this?
NEWPORT: Well, I've really been reviewing a lot of that data that ask Americans about the connection. Less than half now think that there was a direct connection between Saddam Hussein and 9/11. But depending on how you ask it, you can get a clear majority who still agree -- the public, that is -- that there were some ties between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda in general.
Here's the latest poll I could find, a Harris interactive poll through the 15th of June. There is the number, 69 percent say yes to the way they worded the question, which was some kind of support between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda. So, the public is still buying into the general notion that there was a connection -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Frank Newport live in Princeton, New Jersey. Thank you for some interesting numbers this morning.
Time for a little business buzz right now. Thanks to an improving economy, a recent report finds that Americans are still willing to share their good fortune.
Carrie Lee has more on that story live from the Nasdaq Marketsite.
In what particular way -- Carrie?
CARRIE LEE, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS: Well, giving money to charities, Carol. Americans gave about $240.7 billion last year, in 2003, and that's holding pretty steady from the prior year. This is according to Giving USA, which is a survey published from various charities. Estimated giving in 2003 actually equaled about 2.2 percent of our nation's gross domestic products, and that's the fifth year since 1971 that contributions exceeded that 2 percent mark.
Why people are feeling so generous? Well, we did see the job market pick up. The stock market didn't do too badly either. It gained some grounds there. And also the economy stabilized.
It's kind of interesting, though, because, of course, we have the situation in the Middle East. We are at war. And there are some threats here involving national security maybe making some people feel insecure.
Also, we have more and more charities coming about. The numbers of charities are rising at a faster rate than charitable giving.
So, even when you think about these negatives, pretty robust figures here and rather encouraging perhaps for some of these charitable groups -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Thanks for the good news this morning. Carrie Lee live from the Nasdaq Marketsite.
Still to come on DAYBREAK, we've been asking the question all morning: What effect, if any, will Bill Clinton's memoir have on his legacy? We will pose that question to a couple of guys on either side of the political fence in today's hot talker. DAYBREAK will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Our hot talker of the morning, "My Life," of course, Bill Clinton's book. A phenomenon or a country hungry for lurid details?
Joining us live, conservative libertarian syndicated talker Neal Boortz, and liberal talker Mike Malloy.
Welcome to you both. MIKE MALLOY, LIBERAL RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hey, Carol.
NEAL BOORTZ: Good morning.
COSTELLO: Well, you know, Clinton's book has been near the top of Amazon.com's bestseller list for the past month before it even came out. Demand is so high at the online retailer that even the audio book and the large-print edition were among the top 10 best sellers. In New York, they've been waiting in line for hours to buy Clinton's book and to hear him speak.
Neal, let's begin with you. Why the intense interest in this book?
BOORTZ: Well, I mean, Clinton is a rock star. He is the most dynamic powerful personality to occupy the White House in my lifetime, maybe ever. And when he shows up, crowds show up. I guess the best explanation I can give you, Carol, is that he is part of the great American celebrity culture and right at the top of it.
COSTELLO: So, Mike, does that do anything for the Democrats politically?
MALLOY: I don't think so, except to point out the glaring difference between more than adequate leadership in this country, which is Bill Clinton's eight years, and George Bush. I've mentioned that before, Carol. I think the comparison is pretty stark.
BOORTZ: Well, I agree. I think people will note the difference between Bill Clinton and George Bush while all of the publicity is going on for this book. They will recognize that George Bush treats the White House with respect and dignity and bring some sense of morality to that job.
COSTELLO: And having said that, Neal, I want to read an e-mail.
BOORTZ: OK.
COSTELLO: This is from Gene from Las Vegas. He says: "Say what you want about Bill Clinton, but when compared to today's events, the biggest problem of the day was who was under his desk. I would rather have those times again."
We've been getting a lot of e-mails about that. So, apparently some viewers would rather have immorality than what's happening now at the White House.
BOORTZ: Well, there is somebody that knows how to send an e-mail but doesn't understand the history of the last 10 years. We would not be having these problems today, with al Qaeda for instance, or the Middle East, if Bill Clinton had paid more attention to what was on top of his desk than what was underneath his desk.
COSTELLO: Oh, that's not what he's saying, is he, Mike?
MALLOY: Well, you know, this saw -- this old, tired saw by the right-wing, and I'm surprised that my friend, Neal Boortz, is saying something like this...
BOORTZ: Oh, you're not surprised by it.
MALLOY: The people who attacked this country on Clinton's watch are in prison. They're not launching strikes against our soldiers. They are in prison.
Now, as far as Clinton being attacked by the right-wing, when you take a look at who is attacking him -- gambling addicts, drug addicts, perjurers, liars -- I would say that Clinton is on pretty solid ground. As long as people like that -- and I'm talking about Oliver North or Limbaugh or Newt Gingrich -- as long as people like that are attacking him, I would say that Clinton is on pretty solid ground with his book.
COSTELLO: Neal?
BOORTZ: Well, let's remember, Mike -- and I don't know which addiction category I fall into. I'll find out later. Mike and I will go get breakfast after we do this.
COSTELLO: Oh, sure.
MALLOY: Flying. You're a pilot addict.
BOORTZ: OK. But anyway, I know one person that Bill Clinton had his grips on that is not in jail. His name is Osama bin Laden, handed to Bill Clinton by the Sudanese in the mid-1990s. And now Bill Clinton, apparently his mind was elsewhere, and he decided not to take advantage of that.
MALLOY: Absolute fabrication.
BOORTZ: Yes, right.
MALLOY: As the Sudanese say, that event never occurred. That's just like meeting Atta in -- where was it, Neal? Yugoslavia. These are manufactured events by the right-wing. They just simply didn't happen.
COSTELLO: OK. Well, let's get right back on topic, because some of the Clinton enemies are coming out of the closet. Remember Kathleen Willey? She accused the president of sexual harassment? Well...
MALLOY: She's back!
COSTELLO: She's back! Wait a minute.
BOORTZ: Wait a minute. She's an enemy? She was a victim of sexual abuse, and she's an enemy?
MALLOY: Ah!
COSTELLO: Now wait a second. Let's play her sound byte, and then we'll debate. BOORTZ: OK.
COSTELLO: Play it, Mr. Director -- Ms. Director, I should say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHLEEN WILLEY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE WORKER: I think he ought to rename the book. It ought to be "My Lies by Bill Clinton" instead of "My Life," because I think it's just going to be a book full of all of the fabrication that he is so well known for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALLOY: Oh my. Oh my. What fabrication? Too bad Kathleen Willey couldn't put at least one fabrication down on paper and read it off for the camera.
BOORTZ: Did we get Juanita Broaddrick here?
COSTELLO: No, I don't have any sound byte from here.
BOORTZ: Oh, that's ashamed.
COSTELLO: I know.
BOORTZ: You know, "my sexual conquest." Maybe that will be his next book.
MALLOY: Kathleen Willey, that's great. That's great. Where did they get these people, Carol? They keep resurrecting, pulling them out of what? The swamps?
BOORTZ: Mike? Mike, I'll tell you...
MALLOY: The mist?
BOORTZ: I'll tell you where they get them. She comes to Bill Clinton in a moment of need asking for a job and ends up getting fondled and groped in the Oval Office.
MALLOY: Oh! Oh, Neal, you're...
BOORTZ: Right about there, Mike. Right about there. You've got it.
MALLOY: You're breaking my heart! You're breaking my heart, and it's not even 7:00 in the morning. You're breaking my heart. Oh!
COSTELLO: Neal, those allegations were never proved true!
MALLOY: Thank you, Carol.
COSTELLO: Well, they weren't. I mean, that's just the facts.
MALLOY: Thank you. BOORTZ: OK, Carol, here's a fact for you. Bill Clinton has never to this day and did not in that book, he has never denied raping Juanita Broaddrick.
COSTELLO: Oh, Neal!
BOORTZ: He never denied it.
MALLOY: Well...
BOORTZ: I'm sorry, he hasn't. Find it.
COSTELLO: Neal!
MALLOY: Neal...
BOORTZ: Find me Bill Clinton's denial.
MALLOY: Neal, you've never denied robbing a bank either. That doesn't mean you did it.
BOORTZ: Well, accuse me and I'll deny it.
COSTELLO: All right...
MALLOY: You robbed a bank.
COSTELLO: We have to stop the debate on that low note. But it was an awful lot of fun.
BOORTZ: Always.
COSTELLO: Neal and Mike, always fun. Thank you. Every Tuesday they're here debating the issues.
MALLOY: We are.
COSTELLO: Your news, money, weather and sports. It is 6:49 Eastern. Here's what's all new this morning.
Russian troops have repelled rebels who were trying to seize government buildings in a republic near Chechnya. You're looking at new pictures we got in this morning from the scene. As many as 46 people are reported dead in hours of heavy fighting.
Iranian media is reporting that the government may put eight British sailors and Marines on trial for entering Iranian waters. The men were seized, along with their three naval vessels, in a waterway between Iraq and Iran.
In money news, Martha Stewart is fresh from a meeting with stockholders. She told them her conviction for lying about a stock sale should not affect her namesake company.
And in culture, Whitney Houston is heading to Shanghai next month for her first concert in China. She says China is her favorite country.
In sports, Mike Tyson has been granted a boxing license in New Jersey, but the governor says Tyson won't be allowed to fight in any state-owned or operated facility. It's been six years since Tyson swore at New Jersey regulators during a licensing hearing.
(WEATHER BREAK)
COSTELLO: Those are the latest headlines for you. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Those two guys are coming to blows over this.
COSTELLO: I'm still laughing about Neal and Mike. But the debate is over.
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: It's time to talk of happy things -- happy things like the DAYBREAK mug.
MYERS: The DAYBREAK coffee mug of the day and the questions from yesterday. Name the one-man show that Paul Burrell is putting together about Princess Di. And it's called "In His Own Words," not "in my own words." I got a lot of those. And what's the name of the jet engine of the airplane that will be taking the rocket-propelled Spaceship One into space? And that little thing that was taking the spaceship up was called White Knight.
And the winner, Stephanie Cook in Osaka, Japan.
COSTELLO: Stephanie living in Japan.
MYERS: Wow!
COSTELLO: Congratulations!
MYERS: Primetime in Japan over there.
COSTELLO: It is indeed.
MYERS: And now the questions for today. In a recent Gallup Poll, what percentage of people thought that governors generally had the highest levels of honesty and ethics? And No. 2, name the man who became the first person to pilot a privately-built aircraft, Spaceship One, what was his name?
Daybreak@CNN.com.
COSTELLO: Oh, you remembered the e-mail address. I'm so proud of you.
MYERS: I'm practicing at home now. COSTELLO: Daybreak@CNN.com. And to Stephanie, the cup is in the mail in extra bubble wrap to make it to Japan.
MYERS: I hope so.
COSTELLO: We'll be back with "The Lightning Round" right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: We're having too much fun behind the scenes.
MYERS: Really.
COSTELLO: Let's hit "The Lightning Round," shall we? Take a good look at this thing. The thing draped around this man's body, it's his hair. Twenty feet of hair! He hasn't had it cut in 31 years, which puts him in the Vietnamese Guinness Book of World Records.
MYERS: There is a Vietnamese Guinness Book of World Records? And there's one in Laos and there's one in Cambodia as well? Could you imagine what a hot oil treatment would cost for that guy? Dang!
COSTELLO: We were trying to come up with how many bottles of shampoo it would take to wash his hair.
MYERS: I guess once.
COSTELLO: Maybe he never washes it. It's dread-locked now, baby.
This Thursday, Chad...
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: ... some of Eric Clapton's most prized possessions will be auctioned off in New York.
MYERS: Oh, no!
COSTELLO: The legendary musician will part with acoustic and electric guitars that he has owned for most of his career. He needs some money. Just kidding.
MYERS: No, no, it's going for a great cause.
COSTELLO: Yes. Just kidding, I'm sorry. The proceeds will benefit a treatment addiction center that Clapton's set up in Antigua.
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: I'm just going to go straight down to HE22 (ph) picks for that.
The only kind of guitar these rock star wannabes know is how to play the air guitar. The winner of this competition -- there she is. She has never picked up a real instrument. Can you believe it?
MYERS: I can, because she was way down below where the strings are. She was, like, playing the bottom of the guitar rather than the (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
COSTELLO: Well, it doesn't matter, because the woman you saw will represent the United States in the world competitions to be held later in Finland.
MYERS: Maybe it's the jumping around that they liked.
COSTELLO: I think that was a man -- anyway.
MYERS: We're out of time.
COSTELLO: We're out of time. We've got to go. "AMERICAN MORNING" starts right now. You make it one great day.
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