Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Book Buyers Line Up Through Night to Buy Clinton Autobiography; Did Rumsfeld Order Torture for Prisoner at Guantanamo Bay?
Aired June 22, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. The former president, Bill Clinton, looking a whole lot like Harry Potter. Book buyers line up through the night to be the first for his autobiography.
Did defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld order torture for a prisoner at Guantanamo Bay? There is a huge debate about a memo from the top.
And the skies are hurling fastballs in Texas. A whopper of a hailstorm and a lot of broken windows on the ground. All ahead this hour here on AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, welcome everybody. Some of the stories that are making headlines this morning.
Today is the big day for folks who are waiting to read President Clinton's 957-page autobiography. That's a line right here in midtown Manhattan because these folks are trying to pick up a copy of "My Life," the former president's new book, which is finally going on sale.
Why such an uproar, why such lengthy lines? We're going to take a look at that just ahead.
HEMMER: That's some dedication, too, don't you think?
O'BRIEN: Well, considering he's not coming allegedly until 12:30 in the afternoon to sign copies. That's just...
HEMMER: Keep on waiting.
O'BRIEN: Dedication or craziness.
HEMMER: Also this hour, new poll numbers showing more problems for the White House on topics like Iraq and the war on terror. These are some of the issues that have been the strongest for the president in the past. We'll look at those numbers in a moment here for you.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, prosecutors in the Scott Peterson murder trial calling witness after witness now trying to discredit a defense theory of what might have happened to Laci Peterson.
What are they saying, and is the defense poking any holes in the testimony? A report on that is just ahead.
HEMMER: All right. Jack Cafferty, too. Good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Saudi Arabia this morning. Friend, foe or a little of each? We'll take a look at the land of the perpetual paradox and see what we can figure out about what's going on over there a bit later.
O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you very much. Let's get right back to the president's new book.
Bill Clinton's book, "My Life," went on sale at midnight. Once again, the live pictures of the buyers who are lining up in New York City for copies of the much-anticipated memoir of the former president.
Kelly Wallace has more for us this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Bill Clinton is back. All smiles but tight lipped at last night's book party in New York just hours before his very candid account of his life hit book stores nationwide.
In New York...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to make my own judgment, my own evaluation, and be among the first to read it.
WALLACE: And around the country, even his critics are curious.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope to find some truth. I don't know if that's going to be 100 percent in there, but we'll hear his story, his side.
WALLACE: It is all part of a PR blitz not just to sell books but to shore up his standing and settle a score with independent prosecutor Kenneth Starr.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It was nothing but a big political operation designed to bring down the presidency.
WALLACE: Starr, in his first interview about the book, does not fire back.
KENNETH STARR: It was a very unpleasant time for everyone caught up in this.
WALLACE: The question now, does Bill Clinton's return to the spotlight help or hurt the Democrat who is supposed to be on center stage right now? Clinton supporters say John Kerry benefits.
AL SHARPTON (D) FMR. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If people can be nostalgic about the Reagan years, imagine if we can remind people of the Clinton years. Bush could be out before the election.
WALLACE: An alternative view that a renewed focus on the Clinton scandals could end up benefiting President Bush.
BRAD MILLER, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, AMERICAN COMPASS BOOK CLUB: Bill Clinton is about to stir up all the mud from the 1990s. you know? I mean, suddenly, American conservatives are going to be energized in a way that I think they may not have been before this book.
WALLACE: And now the question is whether the Clinton saga is a temporary media attraction or something that has lasting impact on the presidential campaign.
Kelly Wallace, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: And this programming note, you can watch Bill Clinton's first live prime time interview on his new book on Thursday night on CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE." The former president is going to take your phone calls, as well. That's at 9 p.m. Eastern time -- Bill.
HEMMER: About five minutes past the hour. Five months now to go before the election in November. A new poll now finds support slipping for President Bush on two of his strongest issues. Fighting terrorism and the Iraq war.
An ABC News/"Washington Post" poll asks voters who would do a better job handling the war on terror? Forty-seven percent say President Bush, 48 percent say Senator John Kerry. Last month, President Bush had a 13-point advantage on this same issue.
The poll also shows that more than half of Americans, 52 percent, say the war was not worth fighting. Forty-seven percent say it was.
And when asked if the war has damaged America's image around the world, 76 percent now say it has in that survey. Last year only 63 percent of those polled thought the war had damaged the country's interests.
Bill Schneider stops by a bit later today to talk more about these poll numbers then. Also from Washington, the State Department today ready to announce a sharp increase in terror victims worldwide last year. This will correct earlier findings.
According to one senior official, the revised report will show a dramatic increase in both the number of deaths and other casualties. But that report also shows that international cooperation and a heightened awareness of the terror threat were bringing positive results.
Earlier this month, the State Department acknowledged that the initial findings released in April were inaccurate. The Secretary of State Colin Powell attributed the errors partly to a new data system and said there was no attempt to change figures to help President Bush's image. More on this throughout the morning -- Soledad. O'BRIEN: The military will proceed legally against another soldier in the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal. A hearing will determine whether specialist Sabrina Harmon will face a court-martial.
And a hearing was called unexpectedly today in Baghdad for staff sergeant Ivan "Chip" Frederick. Several of those charged with abuse say the authorization for what went on at Abu Ghraib came from higher up.
But as Jamie McIntyre reports, the Pentagon plans to allow the public to scrutinize its decision-making process.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: The Pentagon will release as soon as today memos signed by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld that critics argue authorize torture of detainees at the U.S. prison camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
Sources say the memos will show Rumsfeld approved a series of aggressive interrogation techniques for use against one high-level prisoner, Mohammed al-Kahtani, believed to have information about an upcoming attack.
Among the techniques, "water boarding," in which the subject is strapped down and dunked in water or otherwise made to feel he is going to drown.
But the Pentagon says the water-boarding tactic was never used, and that in January Rumsfeld rescinded his approval in the face of objections from some of his own lawyers. Instead, Kahtani was subjected to 20-hour interrogation sessions, given only MREs to eat, and forcibly shaved.
Just last week, Rumsfeld insisted no techniques he approved constituted torture.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: That word gets used by some people in a way that is fair, from their standpoint, but doesn't fit a dictionary definition.
MCINTYRE: Human rights advocates disagree, particularly with regards to water boarding.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, HUMAN RIGHTS FIRST: Water boarding fits the international and domestic definition of torture and if the administration claims its necessary to use it, then they ought to go to Congress and ask Congress to change the law.
MCINTYRE: Up till now, the Pentagon has refused to disclose exactly what interrogation techniques were employed at Guantanamo Bay, except to insist that they did not violate the Geneva Conventions. With the release of all the relevant memos this week, people will be able to judge for themselves.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon. (END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Law professor Jonathan Turley of George Washington University joins us this morning from Chicago.
Nice to see you, Jonathan. Thanks for being with us.
JONATHAN TURLEY, LEGAL SCHOLAR: Good morning, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: The memos I know you say reveal several techniques that you think are incredibly disturbing. Like what?
TURLEY: Well, there's no question that water boarding is torture under international law.
That's not a debate; it's not a close issue. It's torture. Now the fact that it was not used really is a secondary question.
The disturbing issue is that Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld believed he had the authority to order torture and that is quite disturbing. It also contradicts statements made by the administration.
Until now, the administration has insisted that the cases of torture and some cases of homicide involving prisoners were all committed by low-level grunts. You know, the boots on the ground, and that they took it upon themselves to do these things.
Now we have someone who is very close to the president, literally a hair's breath away from the president, who approved a technique that is clear and all fours an act of torture.
And so it's very, very disturbing, and it represents a turning point in U.S. policy.
O'BRIEN: Well, two questions for you about this water boarding technique.
One, you say there's no question -- but let's go back to what we just heard from Secretary Rumsfeld and Jamie McIntyre's piece a moment ago.
He said tortures that were -- that gets used by some people in a way that's fair from their standpoint but doesn't fit a dictionary definition of the word that one would normally accept. So it sounds like he's saying actually it is open for debate what torture is.
Why do you disagree?
TURLEY: Well, I disagree because that's facially ridiculous. I mean, the -- there is no one that I know of on this planet except Secretary Rumsfeld who believes that water boarding would not be torture. Water boarding is designed to put someone under water for a long period of time until they believe they are drowning.
The only step beyond that is to have them drown and die. That's called murder. The difference between murder and torture is that you bring someone to the point of panic because of physical coercion.
And the idea, by the way, of torture is not to kill the suspect. So, water boarding is a classic torture technique it is physically harming an individual, filling them with terror of death and getting them to speak.
O'BRIEN: As you mentioned a moment ago, though, this is a proved memo then rescinded, Secretary Rumsfeld apparently saying it was never in fact used so why if it was never used and it was eventually rescinded -- why is it so critical?
TURLEY: Well it's critical because you have the person sitting next to the president approving torture and during 2003 after it was rescinded we have widespread use of what most people in the world have classified as torture techniques, techniques found by international courts to be torture, things like physical coercion, sleep deprivation, those type of techniques have already been the subject of international rulings.
We now -- if you look at the broader context, we have a number of homicide cases where people have died in interrogation.
We have the Abu Ghraib situation where we have what is clear evidence of torture and abuse of prisoners. We have the same allegations at the Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan and at Guantanamo Bay. All of this fits a picture and it is hard to say that these are the isolated actions of U.S. foot soldiers.
O'BRIEN: But you are drawing a link between a policy for apparently one prisoner who was believed to be the 20th hijacker, potentially held at Guantanamo -- straight through to Abu Ghraib Prison. How do you make that link?
TURLEY: Well, I make that link because they are all consistent with each other. What happened at Abu Ghraib were actions of physical coercion, interrogation techniques involved physically harming and terrifying prisoners.
The same purpose you have for water boarding and this administration has been accused for two years by the international community of openly using measures that constitute torture and the question I think is not whether its been approved.
Clearly it was approved in one case, but it seems to have been tolerated in a great number of other cases.
And what this raises is an issue that we really do need to debate as a people. You know, what we risk is to lose the thing that distinguishes us from our enemies and the irony is that the people that attacked us on September 11th wanted to change who we were; they knew they couldn't kill all of us; they wanted to change us. And when you look at the memo by Rumsfeld you have to ask did they succeed?
O'BRIEN: Legal scholar Jonathan Turley joining us this morning. Nice to see you, Jonathan, thanks.
TURLEY: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: Coming up on 15 minutes past the hour.
To Daryn Kagan again at the CNN Center looking at other news. Daryn, good morning to you.
Starting off again in Iraq. Good morning.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Actually, Bill, we're going to go ahead and start in South Korea. We'll get to Iraq in a bit.
The fate of a South Korean man being held hostage in Iraq still remains unclear this morning. A deadline passed yesterday in which his captors said that the man would be killed if South Korea did not cancel its deployment of troops to Iraq.
There are some reports saying that the hostage is still alive and that talks have been extended. Meanwhile, South Korea's government is urging its civilians to leave Iraq.
Here in the U.S., more relief for motorists with gasoline prices falling for a fourth week in a row. The Energy Department says the average price of gas is now about $1.94 a gallon. The Midwest has seen the biggest price breaks, while the West Coast is still paying the most.
In Texas hail the size of baseballs pounding parts of Amarillo. Homes and cars were pummeled yesterday during that storm in the panhandle. Strong winds knocking down trees and causing some flooding. There were also reports of some tornadoes touching down.
And a 90-minute flight in the history books now. Space Ship One, the first privately booked craft landed safely yesterday at California's Mojave Airport. The rocket plane went up more than 62 miles making it into sub-orbit. The test pilot Mike Melville called the trip, quote, an almost religious experience.
SpaceShipOne was built with $20 million from one of Microsoft's cofounders Paul Allen, part of a contest to help develop space tourism. And he gets the first ever, Bill, commercial astronaut wings in the U.S.A. because he went above the 50-mile limit that he made it to.
HEMMER: We'll see if they come back in two weeks or so, chasing that $10 million.
KAGAN: Lot of work to do.
HEMMER: Thank you, Daryn. Talk to you later this morning.
Scott Peterson's double murder trial resumes today and when it does, all eyes on the jury, specifically juror number five.
It was seen on tape last week saying something to Laci Peterson's brother.
Gloria Gomez, a reporter for KOVR Television out of Sacramento -- live again in Redwood City, California.
Welcome back, Gloria, good morning to you.
The judge rules juror number five stays. What did he say yesterday about this?
GLORIA GOMEZ, KOVR REPORTER: He actually said that there was no misconduct on juror number five's part that he actually spoke to Brett Rocha, Laci Peterson's brother, that there wasn't any sort of misconduct on his part, yet he did admonish the jury telling them that from now on they are not to speak to anyone connected to this case at all.
So clearly making the jurors aware that there is supposed to be no communication, not even a hello to the people involved in this case.
HEMMER: Do we have a better understand as to what was said on that videotape?
GOMEZ: You know we don't yet. The judge said yesterday that we will, because there was an in camera hearing where everything was being documented and he said that that would be actually posted on the Internet.
Of course, we reported last week that it said something to the effect of lose today but even Brett Rocha yesterday was telling cameras that no, that we got it wrong that it wasn't that. Yet he wouldn't clarify for us exactly what he meant by that.
HEMMER: All right, let's talk about the testimony that Mark Geragos apparently had another bit of a fit yesterday. What happened given the prosecutions next witness on the stand, the yoga instructor for Laci saying that she was too pregnant and too tired to do much of anything, much less walk a dog?
GOMEZ: Right, as a matter of fact the yoga instructor saying on the stand that when she was talking to Laci Peterson that Laci had mentioned to her that McKenzie (ph) the dog was -- probably thinks she's mad at him because she doesn't walk him anymore.
Well, obviously, Mark Geragos erupted from his chair and said, Judge, I want a recess. Then they went into another in camera hearing and then when he came back out during cross examination he made it clear to the jury that this statement was in no police report.
HEMMER: Well -- is there an explanation as to why the defense was so caught off guard at that point?
GOMEZ: You know, it almost seems like they're doing pre- interviews with a lot of these witnesses and sometimes it doesn't get on a police report so this is -- these are things that they're actually recollecting as they go on. Of course, this witness, this yoga instructor making it clear on cross-examination that she told police about this. That she even called a tip line and why it didn't make it on any police report. She said she doesn't know but she did make police aware of this.
HEMMER: You mention the police report. More police testimony today. What do we expect, Gloria?
GOMEZ: Well today we expect powerful testimony from one of the lead detectives; Detective Al Brocchini will be taking the stand. He obviously was very focused on Scott Peterson from the very beginning.
Some believe he was actually trying to trip up Scott along the way and, of course, the defense is going to go after him vigorously saying that he's a rogue cop out to get Scott from the very beginning.
HEMMER: Gloria, thanks. Gloria Gomez up early this morning in a windy Redwood City, California. KOVR Television. Thanks -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Jacks got the Cafferty Files and the "Question of the Day" -- good morning.
CAFFERTY: What's that old Eagles song -- if you don't have a case you put the cops on trial? Yes. That what they did in the O.J. Simpson thing. I'll make you a bet.
I'll bet you 25 cents that Scott Peterson is convicted for the same reason that O.J. Simpson was acquitted. In the O.J. Simpson trial the jury chose to ignore a preponderance of evidence that he killed his wife.
I'll bet you in the Scott Peterson thing they accept what is arguably only a circumstantial case and convict him because he is a worm and they don't like him.
HEMMER: I may match your quarter.
CAFFERTY: All right.
O'BRIEN: Twenty-five cents?
CAFFERTY: Twenty-five cents.
O'BRIEN: That's all you're betting on this?
CAFFERTY: That's all I've got. It's been a tough week here at AMERICAN MORNING.
On to other things. The United States and Saudi Arabia. Complicated dance partners. The Islamic militants who beheaded American Paul Johnson said that the members of the Saudi security police provided them with uniforms and vehicles.
Saudi government officials say not true. The Saudi authorities say they killed the al Qaeda cell leader right after Johnson's death but they weren't able to get there before. There is the Bush family's long-alleged financial ties to the Saudi royal family. There are the radical Islamic schools throughout Saudi Arabia that openly teach children hatred of the West.
And of course there is September 11. Fifteen of the 19 hijackers who murdered nearly 3,000 innocent people in this country were Saudis. Although the 9/11 Commission says there is no evidence the Saudis gave money to al Qaeda, panel members say that in the past, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have both supported terrorists within their borders.
So here's the question to chew on this Tuesday morning: what's the truth about Saudi Arabia? You can e-mail us at am@cnn.com.
HEMMER: That may take more than three hours.
O'BRIEN: Right, exactly.
CAFFERTY: Well, it's an interesting question.
O'BRIEN: You'll get lengthy e-mails on that one.
CAFFERTY: We're in bed with the devil over there.
HEMMER: Thanks Jack.
CAFFERTY: They've got all that oil.
HEMMER: That they do. And you got a quarter.
CAFFERTY: Well maybe. We'll have to see.
HEMMER: Could be mine.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning the issue of race is raised in the Kobe Bryant case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No doubt that race is a factor in this case. You have a black man accused of raping a white woman. That's an issue anywhere in the United States.
O'BRIEN: The prosecution and the defense go to battle over jury selection. We've got the very latest from Colorado just ahead.
HEMMER: Also in a moment, hitting the pavement to try and lose weight. One expert tells us you don't even have to count calories but count something else. We'll talk about it.
O'BRIEN: And Martha Stewart looks back at the good old days. Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business" just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back everyone. The lawyer for former Enron chief Ken Lay is talking. He says you can forget about any indictment against his client. Andy Serwer checks in "Minding Your Business" first check for us this morning. Good morning.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good to see you guys. Wishful thinking, perhaps on his part. We're not sure about that.
Will he or won't he? We're talking about former Enron CEO Ken Lay. Yesterday his attorney Michael Ramsey in Houston denying reports that an indictment was imminent.
This all started over the weekend. The "Houston Chronicle" said this could be coming very, very soon. But yesterday Michael Ramsey spoke with reporters. Let's hear what he had to say about this possible indictment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL RAMSEY, LAWYER FOR KEN LAY: I don't believe Ken Lay will be indicted at all. I mean, ever. And I believe that we'll satisfy any questions that the government has when we next meet. And if it takes a meeting after that then we'll be available for a meeting after that.
Ken Lay didn't do a crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SERWER: Now is that the usual jawboning of a lawyer or does he know something? Apparently they've had four meetings with the feds over the past two and a half years. He wants another meeting. It sounds like the sources are pretty good, though, from the newspapers suggesting that an indictment may be coming.
Of course that would be big, big news.
HEMMER: I think your question is right, though, is that a lawyer talking on behalf of his client or is it based in law?
SERWER: Right, does he know something?
O'BRIEN: Claiming he's going to -- they're going to meet their way out of an indictment.
SERWER: Right, exactly, good luck.
O'BRIEN: As if that can happen.
HEMMER: Martha Stewart is back in the news. What -- she misses her job.
SERWER: She sure does. She had her annual meeting yesterday, you guys and it was rather subdued. Not a lovefest or not a lot of hate mail being thrown at her. Just about 100 people there. She talked about missing her job. Of course she's got a new job. Remember, she started off as CEO. Then she went to CCO, that's Chief Creative Officer. Now she's a FED, that's founding editorial director. So, interesting stuff there. Of course she's waiting to be sentenced on July 8 and that will be really something, won't it?
HEMMER: Markets were down yesterday, though, huh?
SERWER: Yes, down a little bit. Futures up this morning. We're all waiting for June 30. Not only the handover but also that's when the federal reserve meets about interest rates.
HEMMER: Thank you.
SERWER: You're welcome.
O'BRIEN: All right, Andy, thank you very much.
Still to come this morning when will the Kobe Bryant trial start? The answer is much clearer today. We've got a look at that coming up.
Also ahead with friends like these who needs enemies? A long- time Cheney supporter says the VP needs to step aside. "Political Pop" ahead here on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back, everybody. Just about 7:30 here in New York. Good morning. Nice to have you with us along today. This hearing today in the Kobe Bryant matter scheduled to resume a bit later today.
A number of critical decisions being made right now. Everything from the trial date to DNA evidence to jury instructions -- we'll tell you what we've learned already and what's coming up today, what's expected also to -- we're thinking August maybe the two sides have agreed on that so we shall see.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, "Political Pop" just ahead. We're talking about Vice President Dick Cheney this morning.
A few GOP supporters are now making some waves asking him to step down from the ticket. We're going to see what our "Political Pop" panel thinks about that idea.
HEMMER: Also when it comes to losing weight, you always hear two words: diet and exercise. Now there's a diet that is exercise. The author of "The Step Diet" is with us today. His advice in a moment: 2,000 extra steps a day. He says that does...
O'BRIEN: Nothing to do with the food? You can eat anything you want.
HEMMER: He recommends that a little bit, too but we'll get into it...
O'BRIEN: Milkshakes.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 22, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. The former president, Bill Clinton, looking a whole lot like Harry Potter. Book buyers line up through the night to be the first for his autobiography.
Did defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld order torture for a prisoner at Guantanamo Bay? There is a huge debate about a memo from the top.
And the skies are hurling fastballs in Texas. A whopper of a hailstorm and a lot of broken windows on the ground. All ahead this hour here on AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, welcome everybody. Some of the stories that are making headlines this morning.
Today is the big day for folks who are waiting to read President Clinton's 957-page autobiography. That's a line right here in midtown Manhattan because these folks are trying to pick up a copy of "My Life," the former president's new book, which is finally going on sale.
Why such an uproar, why such lengthy lines? We're going to take a look at that just ahead.
HEMMER: That's some dedication, too, don't you think?
O'BRIEN: Well, considering he's not coming allegedly until 12:30 in the afternoon to sign copies. That's just...
HEMMER: Keep on waiting.
O'BRIEN: Dedication or craziness.
HEMMER: Also this hour, new poll numbers showing more problems for the White House on topics like Iraq and the war on terror. These are some of the issues that have been the strongest for the president in the past. We'll look at those numbers in a moment here for you.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, prosecutors in the Scott Peterson murder trial calling witness after witness now trying to discredit a defense theory of what might have happened to Laci Peterson.
What are they saying, and is the defense poking any holes in the testimony? A report on that is just ahead.
HEMMER: All right. Jack Cafferty, too. Good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Saudi Arabia this morning. Friend, foe or a little of each? We'll take a look at the land of the perpetual paradox and see what we can figure out about what's going on over there a bit later.
O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you very much. Let's get right back to the president's new book.
Bill Clinton's book, "My Life," went on sale at midnight. Once again, the live pictures of the buyers who are lining up in New York City for copies of the much-anticipated memoir of the former president.
Kelly Wallace has more for us this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Bill Clinton is back. All smiles but tight lipped at last night's book party in New York just hours before his very candid account of his life hit book stores nationwide.
In New York...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to make my own judgment, my own evaluation, and be among the first to read it.
WALLACE: And around the country, even his critics are curious.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope to find some truth. I don't know if that's going to be 100 percent in there, but we'll hear his story, his side.
WALLACE: It is all part of a PR blitz not just to sell books but to shore up his standing and settle a score with independent prosecutor Kenneth Starr.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It was nothing but a big political operation designed to bring down the presidency.
WALLACE: Starr, in his first interview about the book, does not fire back.
KENNETH STARR: It was a very unpleasant time for everyone caught up in this.
WALLACE: The question now, does Bill Clinton's return to the spotlight help or hurt the Democrat who is supposed to be on center stage right now? Clinton supporters say John Kerry benefits.
AL SHARPTON (D) FMR. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If people can be nostalgic about the Reagan years, imagine if we can remind people of the Clinton years. Bush could be out before the election.
WALLACE: An alternative view that a renewed focus on the Clinton scandals could end up benefiting President Bush.
BRAD MILLER, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, AMERICAN COMPASS BOOK CLUB: Bill Clinton is about to stir up all the mud from the 1990s. you know? I mean, suddenly, American conservatives are going to be energized in a way that I think they may not have been before this book.
WALLACE: And now the question is whether the Clinton saga is a temporary media attraction or something that has lasting impact on the presidential campaign.
Kelly Wallace, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: And this programming note, you can watch Bill Clinton's first live prime time interview on his new book on Thursday night on CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE." The former president is going to take your phone calls, as well. That's at 9 p.m. Eastern time -- Bill.
HEMMER: About five minutes past the hour. Five months now to go before the election in November. A new poll now finds support slipping for President Bush on two of his strongest issues. Fighting terrorism and the Iraq war.
An ABC News/"Washington Post" poll asks voters who would do a better job handling the war on terror? Forty-seven percent say President Bush, 48 percent say Senator John Kerry. Last month, President Bush had a 13-point advantage on this same issue.
The poll also shows that more than half of Americans, 52 percent, say the war was not worth fighting. Forty-seven percent say it was.
And when asked if the war has damaged America's image around the world, 76 percent now say it has in that survey. Last year only 63 percent of those polled thought the war had damaged the country's interests.
Bill Schneider stops by a bit later today to talk more about these poll numbers then. Also from Washington, the State Department today ready to announce a sharp increase in terror victims worldwide last year. This will correct earlier findings.
According to one senior official, the revised report will show a dramatic increase in both the number of deaths and other casualties. But that report also shows that international cooperation and a heightened awareness of the terror threat were bringing positive results.
Earlier this month, the State Department acknowledged that the initial findings released in April were inaccurate. The Secretary of State Colin Powell attributed the errors partly to a new data system and said there was no attempt to change figures to help President Bush's image. More on this throughout the morning -- Soledad. O'BRIEN: The military will proceed legally against another soldier in the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal. A hearing will determine whether specialist Sabrina Harmon will face a court-martial.
And a hearing was called unexpectedly today in Baghdad for staff sergeant Ivan "Chip" Frederick. Several of those charged with abuse say the authorization for what went on at Abu Ghraib came from higher up.
But as Jamie McIntyre reports, the Pentagon plans to allow the public to scrutinize its decision-making process.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: The Pentagon will release as soon as today memos signed by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld that critics argue authorize torture of detainees at the U.S. prison camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
Sources say the memos will show Rumsfeld approved a series of aggressive interrogation techniques for use against one high-level prisoner, Mohammed al-Kahtani, believed to have information about an upcoming attack.
Among the techniques, "water boarding," in which the subject is strapped down and dunked in water or otherwise made to feel he is going to drown.
But the Pentagon says the water-boarding tactic was never used, and that in January Rumsfeld rescinded his approval in the face of objections from some of his own lawyers. Instead, Kahtani was subjected to 20-hour interrogation sessions, given only MREs to eat, and forcibly shaved.
Just last week, Rumsfeld insisted no techniques he approved constituted torture.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: That word gets used by some people in a way that is fair, from their standpoint, but doesn't fit a dictionary definition.
MCINTYRE: Human rights advocates disagree, particularly with regards to water boarding.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, HUMAN RIGHTS FIRST: Water boarding fits the international and domestic definition of torture and if the administration claims its necessary to use it, then they ought to go to Congress and ask Congress to change the law.
MCINTYRE: Up till now, the Pentagon has refused to disclose exactly what interrogation techniques were employed at Guantanamo Bay, except to insist that they did not violate the Geneva Conventions. With the release of all the relevant memos this week, people will be able to judge for themselves.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon. (END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Law professor Jonathan Turley of George Washington University joins us this morning from Chicago.
Nice to see you, Jonathan. Thanks for being with us.
JONATHAN TURLEY, LEGAL SCHOLAR: Good morning, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: The memos I know you say reveal several techniques that you think are incredibly disturbing. Like what?
TURLEY: Well, there's no question that water boarding is torture under international law.
That's not a debate; it's not a close issue. It's torture. Now the fact that it was not used really is a secondary question.
The disturbing issue is that Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld believed he had the authority to order torture and that is quite disturbing. It also contradicts statements made by the administration.
Until now, the administration has insisted that the cases of torture and some cases of homicide involving prisoners were all committed by low-level grunts. You know, the boots on the ground, and that they took it upon themselves to do these things.
Now we have someone who is very close to the president, literally a hair's breath away from the president, who approved a technique that is clear and all fours an act of torture.
And so it's very, very disturbing, and it represents a turning point in U.S. policy.
O'BRIEN: Well, two questions for you about this water boarding technique.
One, you say there's no question -- but let's go back to what we just heard from Secretary Rumsfeld and Jamie McIntyre's piece a moment ago.
He said tortures that were -- that gets used by some people in a way that's fair from their standpoint but doesn't fit a dictionary definition of the word that one would normally accept. So it sounds like he's saying actually it is open for debate what torture is.
Why do you disagree?
TURLEY: Well, I disagree because that's facially ridiculous. I mean, the -- there is no one that I know of on this planet except Secretary Rumsfeld who believes that water boarding would not be torture. Water boarding is designed to put someone under water for a long period of time until they believe they are drowning.
The only step beyond that is to have them drown and die. That's called murder. The difference between murder and torture is that you bring someone to the point of panic because of physical coercion.
And the idea, by the way, of torture is not to kill the suspect. So, water boarding is a classic torture technique it is physically harming an individual, filling them with terror of death and getting them to speak.
O'BRIEN: As you mentioned a moment ago, though, this is a proved memo then rescinded, Secretary Rumsfeld apparently saying it was never in fact used so why if it was never used and it was eventually rescinded -- why is it so critical?
TURLEY: Well it's critical because you have the person sitting next to the president approving torture and during 2003 after it was rescinded we have widespread use of what most people in the world have classified as torture techniques, techniques found by international courts to be torture, things like physical coercion, sleep deprivation, those type of techniques have already been the subject of international rulings.
We now -- if you look at the broader context, we have a number of homicide cases where people have died in interrogation.
We have the Abu Ghraib situation where we have what is clear evidence of torture and abuse of prisoners. We have the same allegations at the Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan and at Guantanamo Bay. All of this fits a picture and it is hard to say that these are the isolated actions of U.S. foot soldiers.
O'BRIEN: But you are drawing a link between a policy for apparently one prisoner who was believed to be the 20th hijacker, potentially held at Guantanamo -- straight through to Abu Ghraib Prison. How do you make that link?
TURLEY: Well, I make that link because they are all consistent with each other. What happened at Abu Ghraib were actions of physical coercion, interrogation techniques involved physically harming and terrifying prisoners.
The same purpose you have for water boarding and this administration has been accused for two years by the international community of openly using measures that constitute torture and the question I think is not whether its been approved.
Clearly it was approved in one case, but it seems to have been tolerated in a great number of other cases.
And what this raises is an issue that we really do need to debate as a people. You know, what we risk is to lose the thing that distinguishes us from our enemies and the irony is that the people that attacked us on September 11th wanted to change who we were; they knew they couldn't kill all of us; they wanted to change us. And when you look at the memo by Rumsfeld you have to ask did they succeed?
O'BRIEN: Legal scholar Jonathan Turley joining us this morning. Nice to see you, Jonathan, thanks.
TURLEY: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: Coming up on 15 minutes past the hour.
To Daryn Kagan again at the CNN Center looking at other news. Daryn, good morning to you.
Starting off again in Iraq. Good morning.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Actually, Bill, we're going to go ahead and start in South Korea. We'll get to Iraq in a bit.
The fate of a South Korean man being held hostage in Iraq still remains unclear this morning. A deadline passed yesterday in which his captors said that the man would be killed if South Korea did not cancel its deployment of troops to Iraq.
There are some reports saying that the hostage is still alive and that talks have been extended. Meanwhile, South Korea's government is urging its civilians to leave Iraq.
Here in the U.S., more relief for motorists with gasoline prices falling for a fourth week in a row. The Energy Department says the average price of gas is now about $1.94 a gallon. The Midwest has seen the biggest price breaks, while the West Coast is still paying the most.
In Texas hail the size of baseballs pounding parts of Amarillo. Homes and cars were pummeled yesterday during that storm in the panhandle. Strong winds knocking down trees and causing some flooding. There were also reports of some tornadoes touching down.
And a 90-minute flight in the history books now. Space Ship One, the first privately booked craft landed safely yesterday at California's Mojave Airport. The rocket plane went up more than 62 miles making it into sub-orbit. The test pilot Mike Melville called the trip, quote, an almost religious experience.
SpaceShipOne was built with $20 million from one of Microsoft's cofounders Paul Allen, part of a contest to help develop space tourism. And he gets the first ever, Bill, commercial astronaut wings in the U.S.A. because he went above the 50-mile limit that he made it to.
HEMMER: We'll see if they come back in two weeks or so, chasing that $10 million.
KAGAN: Lot of work to do.
HEMMER: Thank you, Daryn. Talk to you later this morning.
Scott Peterson's double murder trial resumes today and when it does, all eyes on the jury, specifically juror number five.
It was seen on tape last week saying something to Laci Peterson's brother.
Gloria Gomez, a reporter for KOVR Television out of Sacramento -- live again in Redwood City, California.
Welcome back, Gloria, good morning to you.
The judge rules juror number five stays. What did he say yesterday about this?
GLORIA GOMEZ, KOVR REPORTER: He actually said that there was no misconduct on juror number five's part that he actually spoke to Brett Rocha, Laci Peterson's brother, that there wasn't any sort of misconduct on his part, yet he did admonish the jury telling them that from now on they are not to speak to anyone connected to this case at all.
So clearly making the jurors aware that there is supposed to be no communication, not even a hello to the people involved in this case.
HEMMER: Do we have a better understand as to what was said on that videotape?
GOMEZ: You know we don't yet. The judge said yesterday that we will, because there was an in camera hearing where everything was being documented and he said that that would be actually posted on the Internet.
Of course, we reported last week that it said something to the effect of lose today but even Brett Rocha yesterday was telling cameras that no, that we got it wrong that it wasn't that. Yet he wouldn't clarify for us exactly what he meant by that.
HEMMER: All right, let's talk about the testimony that Mark Geragos apparently had another bit of a fit yesterday. What happened given the prosecutions next witness on the stand, the yoga instructor for Laci saying that she was too pregnant and too tired to do much of anything, much less walk a dog?
GOMEZ: Right, as a matter of fact the yoga instructor saying on the stand that when she was talking to Laci Peterson that Laci had mentioned to her that McKenzie (ph) the dog was -- probably thinks she's mad at him because she doesn't walk him anymore.
Well, obviously, Mark Geragos erupted from his chair and said, Judge, I want a recess. Then they went into another in camera hearing and then when he came back out during cross examination he made it clear to the jury that this statement was in no police report.
HEMMER: Well -- is there an explanation as to why the defense was so caught off guard at that point?
GOMEZ: You know, it almost seems like they're doing pre- interviews with a lot of these witnesses and sometimes it doesn't get on a police report so this is -- these are things that they're actually recollecting as they go on. Of course, this witness, this yoga instructor making it clear on cross-examination that she told police about this. That she even called a tip line and why it didn't make it on any police report. She said she doesn't know but she did make police aware of this.
HEMMER: You mention the police report. More police testimony today. What do we expect, Gloria?
GOMEZ: Well today we expect powerful testimony from one of the lead detectives; Detective Al Brocchini will be taking the stand. He obviously was very focused on Scott Peterson from the very beginning.
Some believe he was actually trying to trip up Scott along the way and, of course, the defense is going to go after him vigorously saying that he's a rogue cop out to get Scott from the very beginning.
HEMMER: Gloria, thanks. Gloria Gomez up early this morning in a windy Redwood City, California. KOVR Television. Thanks -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Jacks got the Cafferty Files and the "Question of the Day" -- good morning.
CAFFERTY: What's that old Eagles song -- if you don't have a case you put the cops on trial? Yes. That what they did in the O.J. Simpson thing. I'll make you a bet.
I'll bet you 25 cents that Scott Peterson is convicted for the same reason that O.J. Simpson was acquitted. In the O.J. Simpson trial the jury chose to ignore a preponderance of evidence that he killed his wife.
I'll bet you in the Scott Peterson thing they accept what is arguably only a circumstantial case and convict him because he is a worm and they don't like him.
HEMMER: I may match your quarter.
CAFFERTY: All right.
O'BRIEN: Twenty-five cents?
CAFFERTY: Twenty-five cents.
O'BRIEN: That's all you're betting on this?
CAFFERTY: That's all I've got. It's been a tough week here at AMERICAN MORNING.
On to other things. The United States and Saudi Arabia. Complicated dance partners. The Islamic militants who beheaded American Paul Johnson said that the members of the Saudi security police provided them with uniforms and vehicles.
Saudi government officials say not true. The Saudi authorities say they killed the al Qaeda cell leader right after Johnson's death but they weren't able to get there before. There is the Bush family's long-alleged financial ties to the Saudi royal family. There are the radical Islamic schools throughout Saudi Arabia that openly teach children hatred of the West.
And of course there is September 11. Fifteen of the 19 hijackers who murdered nearly 3,000 innocent people in this country were Saudis. Although the 9/11 Commission says there is no evidence the Saudis gave money to al Qaeda, panel members say that in the past, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have both supported terrorists within their borders.
So here's the question to chew on this Tuesday morning: what's the truth about Saudi Arabia? You can e-mail us at am@cnn.com.
HEMMER: That may take more than three hours.
O'BRIEN: Right, exactly.
CAFFERTY: Well, it's an interesting question.
O'BRIEN: You'll get lengthy e-mails on that one.
CAFFERTY: We're in bed with the devil over there.
HEMMER: Thanks Jack.
CAFFERTY: They've got all that oil.
HEMMER: That they do. And you got a quarter.
CAFFERTY: Well maybe. We'll have to see.
HEMMER: Could be mine.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning the issue of race is raised in the Kobe Bryant case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No doubt that race is a factor in this case. You have a black man accused of raping a white woman. That's an issue anywhere in the United States.
O'BRIEN: The prosecution and the defense go to battle over jury selection. We've got the very latest from Colorado just ahead.
HEMMER: Also in a moment, hitting the pavement to try and lose weight. One expert tells us you don't even have to count calories but count something else. We'll talk about it.
O'BRIEN: And Martha Stewart looks back at the good old days. Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business" just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back everyone. The lawyer for former Enron chief Ken Lay is talking. He says you can forget about any indictment against his client. Andy Serwer checks in "Minding Your Business" first check for us this morning. Good morning.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good to see you guys. Wishful thinking, perhaps on his part. We're not sure about that.
Will he or won't he? We're talking about former Enron CEO Ken Lay. Yesterday his attorney Michael Ramsey in Houston denying reports that an indictment was imminent.
This all started over the weekend. The "Houston Chronicle" said this could be coming very, very soon. But yesterday Michael Ramsey spoke with reporters. Let's hear what he had to say about this possible indictment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL RAMSEY, LAWYER FOR KEN LAY: I don't believe Ken Lay will be indicted at all. I mean, ever. And I believe that we'll satisfy any questions that the government has when we next meet. And if it takes a meeting after that then we'll be available for a meeting after that.
Ken Lay didn't do a crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SERWER: Now is that the usual jawboning of a lawyer or does he know something? Apparently they've had four meetings with the feds over the past two and a half years. He wants another meeting. It sounds like the sources are pretty good, though, from the newspapers suggesting that an indictment may be coming.
Of course that would be big, big news.
HEMMER: I think your question is right, though, is that a lawyer talking on behalf of his client or is it based in law?
SERWER: Right, does he know something?
O'BRIEN: Claiming he's going to -- they're going to meet their way out of an indictment.
SERWER: Right, exactly, good luck.
O'BRIEN: As if that can happen.
HEMMER: Martha Stewart is back in the news. What -- she misses her job.
SERWER: She sure does. She had her annual meeting yesterday, you guys and it was rather subdued. Not a lovefest or not a lot of hate mail being thrown at her. Just about 100 people there. She talked about missing her job. Of course she's got a new job. Remember, she started off as CEO. Then she went to CCO, that's Chief Creative Officer. Now she's a FED, that's founding editorial director. So, interesting stuff there. Of course she's waiting to be sentenced on July 8 and that will be really something, won't it?
HEMMER: Markets were down yesterday, though, huh?
SERWER: Yes, down a little bit. Futures up this morning. We're all waiting for June 30. Not only the handover but also that's when the federal reserve meets about interest rates.
HEMMER: Thank you.
SERWER: You're welcome.
O'BRIEN: All right, Andy, thank you very much.
Still to come this morning when will the Kobe Bryant trial start? The answer is much clearer today. We've got a look at that coming up.
Also ahead with friends like these who needs enemies? A long- time Cheney supporter says the VP needs to step aside. "Political Pop" ahead here on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back, everybody. Just about 7:30 here in New York. Good morning. Nice to have you with us along today. This hearing today in the Kobe Bryant matter scheduled to resume a bit later today.
A number of critical decisions being made right now. Everything from the trial date to DNA evidence to jury instructions -- we'll tell you what we've learned already and what's coming up today, what's expected also to -- we're thinking August maybe the two sides have agreed on that so we shall see.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, "Political Pop" just ahead. We're talking about Vice President Dick Cheney this morning.
A few GOP supporters are now making some waves asking him to step down from the ticket. We're going to see what our "Political Pop" panel thinks about that idea.
HEMMER: Also when it comes to losing weight, you always hear two words: diet and exercise. Now there's a diet that is exercise. The author of "The Step Diet" is with us today. His advice in a moment: 2,000 extra steps a day. He says that does...
O'BRIEN: Nothing to do with the food? You can eat anything you want.
HEMMER: He recommends that a little bit, too but we'll get into it...
O'BRIEN: Milkshakes.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
