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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Airstrike in Iraq on Alleged Zarqawi Safe House; South Korean Hostage Beheaded
Aired June 22, 2004 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening now. Airstrike in Iraq. The target, the safe house of the coalition's public enemy number one. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Hostage beheaded. He pleaded for his life in vain. An ancient practice sows new fear in the Middle East.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will not intimidated by the brutal action of these barbaric people.
Captured crewmen. Iran puts them on display. Will it put them on trial?
Stolen children. Abducted and taken overseas by a parent. I'll speak with John Walsh, crime fighting host of "America's Most Wanted."
"Fahrenheit 9/11." A controversial new film tees off on President Bush.
BUSH: I call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop these terrorist killers. Thank you.
Now watch this drive.
BLITZER: Does it hit too hard?
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Tuesday, June 22, 2004.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: They've done it again. A kidnapping, a video, demands, and now a beheading. This time the victim was a South Korean.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want to die! I don't want to (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Your life is important and my life is important!
BLITZER: But South Korean Kim Sun-Il's dramatic pleas heard around the world were for naught. The South Korean government confirmed Iraqi insurgents had executed the 33-year-old Arabic language translator. He had been working in Iraq for the past year for a South Korean firm supplying goods to the U.S. military. Pentagon officials confirmed he had been beheaded just like the American hostages Paul Johnson in Saudi Arabia and Nicholas Berg in Iraq.
BUSH: The free world cannot be intimidated by the brutal action of these barbaric people. See, what they're trying to do is they're trying to shake our will and our confidence. They're trying to get us to withdraw from the world so that they can impose their dark vision on people.
Kim, Berg, and Johnson were all seen on the Islamist Web sites wearing orange jumpsuits similar to those worn by prison inmates. After kidnapping Kim, the terrorist had given the South Korean government 24 hours to cancel plans to deploy some 3,000 troops to northern Iraq. The demand had been rejected by the government in Seoul. South Korea already has 670 troops deployed in southern Iraq. In announcing the death of Kim, one of the terrorists issued this statement in a videotaped broadcast by Arab TV channel Al-Jazeera.
"We warned you. The deadline has passed. This is the result of your own doings. Enough lies and cheating. Your troops are not here for the sake of the Iraqi people, but they are here to serve the cursed America." But after the body was found, the South Korean government again said it would not be deterred.
SHIN BONG-KIL, SOUTH KOREAN FOREIGN MINISTRY: We reaffirm our plans to send troops to Iraq, because our military deployment is for reconstruction and humanitarian aid support for Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And this late and additionally disturbing note. Senior military sources say that when U.S. troops found the body, they discovered it was booby trapped. As mentioned the insurgents had given South Korea 24 hours to cancel plans to send additional troops to Iraq. South Korea currently has, as we noted approximately 660 noncombat troops in Iraq. These troops primarily army medics and engineers. The country has plans to deploy some 3,000 additional troops to the region. If South Korea proceeds with this deployment as they say they will, it will have approximately 3,600 troops in Iraq. This would be the third largest contingent in Iraq behind those of the United States and Britain.
The reaction in South Korea to Kim's execution, horror and heartbreak. CNN's Sohn Jie-Ae in the capital of Seoul. She's joining us live with more. Tell us what's going on there.
SOHN JIE-AE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the news of Kim Sun- Il's death has devastated the family of Kim Sun-Il who had hoped against hope that their son would return back safe. He was supposed to come back for his father's 70th birthday in July. Kim Sun-Il was a translator for Gana General Trading Company, a food supplier to the U.S. military. He spoke Arabic, he spoke English, he spoke Korean. He was a devout Christian and his mother said he was to be ordained as a Christian minister soon and that he had hoped to return to the Arab world as a missionary. So at this point, they're devastated and seeing that his hope as well as theirs are dashed -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Sohn Jie-Ae with the story of this young man. Thanks, Sohn Jie-Ae, very much for that.
An ancient form of execution becomes a brutal new terror tactic. Is it succeeding? CNN's Brian Todd joins us now live with more -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we now have three beheadings of hostages in less than two months, a pattern going back farther than that and what experts are calling an ominous new signal in the war on terror.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): The images, even those sanitary enough to show on television, are horrific. The very word "beheading" shocks news consumers. And that, experts say, is the whole point.
KEN ROBINSON, CNN MILITARY INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: It's a very effective, graphic image that goes to the core of western Judeo- Christian beliefs as being very abhorrent.
TODD: The decapitation of South Korean hostage Kim Sun-Il, although not shown so far in the media, shows a clear pattern. Most recently with Paul Johnson and Nick Berg but going back to Daniel Pearl and well beyond and what some experts believe could be a developing strategy on the part of terrorists and militants.
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: These beheadings are pretty effective propaganda tool because they're so horrifying. Would you want to stay in these countries if you felt this is a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) strong possibility?
TODD: Beheading as a form of punishment is part of Islamic law and goes back many centuries, but Muslim scholars say it's only supposed to be used as a consequence of a criminal act and must be approved by a judge and the government of the Islamic nation in question. As an instrument of terror, experts say it has no official sanction but several benefits. It signifies the ultimate act of killing one expert says, something very final, abrupt. And terrorism analysts we spoke to say, in this day and age, these types of killings lend themselves to exploitation by the media.
GABRIEL WEINMANN, U.S. INSTITUTE OF PEACE: I think they see that it pays off, that it's really useful. It gets media attention. It gets coverage, exposure they want. It sends messages of threat.
TODD: Messages apparently intended for multiple audiences.
ROBINSON: They are trying to communicate to the west, to those who are contributing to infrastructure rebuilding not to participate. They are trying to scare American public who send their sons, daughters, husbands away to try to convince them not to participate.
(END VIDEOTAPE) TODD: The open question now is, will this method work and drive foreign troops and civilians out of Iraq or Saudi Arabia? Of course, there are many contractors from many countries working in Iraq now. But one terrorism expert we spoke to, he's also a former U.S. special operations soldier, said he has spoken to two former special OPs members who have been recruited for contract work if Iraq. Both are combat veterans, both told him you couldn't pay them enough to go -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Brian Todd with that chilling report. Thanks, Brian, very much. There's a developing situation we're following in Iraq right now. Coalition forces have carried out another air strike in Fallujah. Here's our Baghdad bureau chief Jane Arraf. She's joining us live -- Jane.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Wolf, it's the second strike in three days on what the coalition is calling a known Zarqawi network safe house in the city of Fallujah west of Baghdad. Unclear what type of weapons were used in this one but the coalition says they were precision weapons. And it says it acted on confirmed actionable intelligence.
Now that's intelligence that is deemed credible enough and timely enough for them to act on it and just after 10:00 p.m. tonight, they did. Attacking a house in roughly the same area as an air strike hit a housing compound in Fallujah on Saturday killing an estimated 20 people, including, according to the coalition, members of the Zarqawi network.
Zarqawi, of course, is Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, the wanted fugitive who has been -- who has claimed responsibility and is thought to be responsible for some of the worst attacks in Iraq, as well as connected to the group that may be behind the beheadings. The coalition says that -- has said in the past that it does not have evidence that Zarqawi himself is in Fallujah, but it does believe that part of his network is operating there using these safe houses to help them -- Wolf.
BLITZER: CNN's Jane Arraf in Baghdad for us. Jane, thank you very much. We'll continue to update our viewers on the air strike in Iraq. Also ahead this hour, detained and interrogated in Iran. Could British marines and sailors actually face a trial there?
Terror error. The Bush administration hailed a sharp decline in terror deaths. Why were the numbers so off?
Plus this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: With everything going wrong he did what any of us would do -- he went on vacation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A controversial film, to say the least. One main goal, though, to try to influence the outcome of this year's presidential election. Former New York Governor Mario Cuomo and Republican Congressman David Dryer. They'll debate its impact. That's coming up this hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Two British sailors and six marines are still in Iranian custody, one day after their patrol boats were seized on a waterway between Iran and Iraq. And while there's word their release could come soon, there's nothing official yet coming from Tehran on the men's fate. CNN's Zain Verjee keeping track of the story. She's joining us now live from the CNN Center in Atlanta.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it's a narrow stretch of water that's filled with shipwrecks from the Iran-Iraq war. British patrol boats often navigate their way through the rubbish that's been left behind since the war like fragments of rock, for example. They may have gone over the international boundary between the two countries. That's not really unusual, but the response was.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE (voice-over): Did these eight British servicemen make an honest mistake or were they on what's sometimes called a fishing expedition? Britain says they were on a routine mission. The men were in boats like this often used to train Iraqi patrols. In the sharp Arab waterway, it not easy to know where Iraq ends and Iran begins. British officials say the sailors could easily have made a mistake and crossed into Iranian waters. And the British foreign secretary, Jack Straw, demands, release them.
But Iran says the men will only be released if Tehran is convinced their motives were completely innocent. Observers say Iran's own motives could be a reflection of the current tensions between the two countries and that Iran may have made a big issue of a minor incursion deliberately.
JONATHAN ALTERMAN, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: They're trying to be taken seriously on the world stage and they're trying to be treated respectfully on the world stage instead of being scolded like a 3-year-old who has misbehaved. And this helps them do that.
VERJEE: It's a sensitive time for Iran/British relations. London supported a recent resolution rebuking Iran for not cooperating with nuclear inspectors from the International Atomic Agency. Iran was furious. And this weekend the European Union strongly criticized Iran's human rights record. But some observers believe that Iran needs the Europeans on its side as it faces growing pressure from Washington over its nuclear program.
AFSHIN MOLAVI, NEW AMERICA FOUNDATION: If Iran were to lose Britain now they would be left without a key ally in what is certainly going to be a showdown over Iran's nuclear weapons, alleged nuclear weapons program. VERJEE: Iran says its program is aimed only at producing energy, not weapons. Both London and Tehran seem anxious not to raise the stakes.
WILLIAM COHEN, FMR. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Well, I can see there was no effort to put a military operation into Iranian waters. So we'll have to wait and see. But I think it will be resolved peacefully and they'll be released.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: Wolf, the British government is playing down this incident but analysts say the longer it takes to resolve it the more chance there could be of it becoming a full-blown crisis -- Wolf.
BLITZER: CNN's Zain Verjee, reporting for us. Zain, thanks very much.
Thousands of American children kidnapped and taken abroad over the last two decades. We'll talk about that and more with John Walsh, the host of "America's Most Wanted."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ambassador of Saudi Arabia.
How much money did the Saudis have invested in America, roughly?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: One of the most controversial movies of the year. Now a setback for Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11." We'll tell you what it is.
Plus...
The Clinton memoir, it's out today. Big crowds lining up. We'll show you what the buzz is all about today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: In today's justice report, sentencing for a killer pedophile. A Belgian court ordered Marc Dutroux to spend life in prison for the kidnaping and rape of six young girls and women. Two of them just 8 years old, were starved to death in his basement. Two others were drugged and buried alive. Three co-defendants, including Dutroux's ex-wife, received lesser sentences.
John Walsh knows the horror of child abduction firsthand. His son Adam was kidnapped and murdered in 1981. John Walsh is now the host of "America's Most Wanted," and he's an advocate for missing children. He testified today before the House International Relations Committee on international abductions around the world.
John, thanks very much for joining us. Explain to our viewers what the problem is. JOHN WALSH, HOST, "AMERICA'S MOST WANTED": The problem is that people come to this country, marry an American, and then think that they can steal their kids in a bitter divorce and take them to another country and never have to bring them back home.
BLITZER: There's been 16,000 cases over the past 20 years.
WALSH: Unbelievable. About 400 a year, you're absolutely right. And we have had a nightmare trying to get kids back. We have a treaty with The Hague -- 70 countries have signed it -- but most of the countries that are supposed friends of our ours -- every Middle Eastern country, India, China, Russia -- have not signed it, refuse to sign it.
And we have hundreds of kids -- for example, in Egypt, we've had about 300 kids and we send Egypt $2 billion a year. But Americans can't get American citizens' children back from Egypt, and Saudi Arabia's a big offender, too.
BLITZER: Normally -- normally, what happens is a man comes to the United States, marries an American woman, they have children, the man -- they get divorced, the man decides he's going to take the child or the children back to his home country and, usually in those countries, the American woman has no recourse.
WALSH: No rights at all. And it isn't just men, sometimes it is women. But primarily it is men. And they feel that even though these kids were born in America, have American passports and are legally American citizens and it's against American law that they can just run back to their Muslim country and say, "We're never bringing this child back."
It's a heartbreak, I...
BLITZER: It's not just Muslim countries, there's other countries, as well.
WALSH: Oh, it's other countries. It's -- Russia's one of them, India's another one of them. But our biggest problems are really in the Middle East and Saudi Arabia.
BLITZER: All right, so what did you come up with at this hearing today before Chairman Henry Hyde's committee? What can be done about this?
WALSH: Stiffer penalties, greater involvement with the State Department -- Colin Powell is all for enforcing this -- getting a national registry of custody orders and stopping these people at the border before they leave the United States, and also forcing these countries -- possibly by economic sanction -- to say, "We give you millions of dollars or we do billions of dollars worth of business to you, but you ignore American law. Give these kids back."
BLITZER: Well, how do you stop somebody at the border? If let's say a father shows up with his two kids and they're going to Pakistan or Saudi Arabia or any other country around the world? What are you supposed to do if they have the proper passports, the proper papers? How do you stop that?
WALSH: A lot of parents know this is going to happen. A lot of exes know they're going to have it and they have court orders. There were parents there who testified that they who had court orders for judges, restraining orders, and their kids were kidnapped.
We stop people at our borders that are fleeing fugitives. We have that mechanism now because of 9/11. So, we're trying to get these uniformed custody orders into a computer, maybe the FBI's NCIC, and maybe stop some of them at the borders.
But the real problem is getting them back for these countries to say, "Yes, we do business with America, but we ignore your laws. And these children are going to stay in our countries because we have no regard for American laws."
BLITZER: Let me shift gears for a second. "America's Most Wanted," by all accounts, Osama bin Laden, you've been on the air for years talking about him. Why is it so hard to capture this guy?
WALSH: Well, I'll tell you, he lives in a part of the world where he's revered. People think he's a hero. He goes between the borders of Sudan, Somalia, northern Afghanistan...
BLITZER: Not anymore now, he...
WALSH: No, but he did.
BLITZER: ... between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
WALSH: Probably. Absolutely.
But, when I went over, I started profiling him in 1994, worked with Interpol, went to Dubai and the Arab Emirates where he had gone into the hospital just before 9/11 and had kidney work done. People revere him in that part of the world. They think that he's some kind of hero and we're infidels.
Obviously, there is a certain faction that believe in Osama bin Laden hiding him. Money doesn't matter to them, Wolf. A $25 million reward means nothing to these people that hide him. And look what al Qaeda is doing. I mean, we really have to realize that these people hate us, and number one, I wish all Americans would realize that these four people that were killed -- Daniel Pearl, Nicholas Berg, Paul Johnson, Kim Sun-il -- they're just average people working somewhere. They're not soldiers; they're plucked off of the streets.
What if al Qaeda starts taking American tourists that are going to Italy and England and beheading them? I mean, we're in a war here. And most of these people are Saudis. And that's something that the Saudi government has to deal with. And you and I were talking about it, that the prince -- the Saudi prince can go on television after the 22 murders in the Khobar -- one of them was American, you know, in the Khobar compound there -- and say, on Al-Jazeera television, that these were Israelis Zionists that were response for these murders.
Let's call it like it is. These are Arabs. These are Saudi Arabians that are killing Americans.
BLITZER: John Walsh, the host of "America's Most Wanted" testifying today on Capitol Hill.
John, thanks, as usual.
WALSH: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: An embarrassing about-face today for the State Department, as a new report on terror attacks cites some very different figures than one that was released just a few weeks ago. What the new one says, how they got it wrong -- all that. that's coming up.
Plus -- aggressive tactics. The Pentagon releases new memos on techniques for dealing with prisoners. Does it put the Defense Secretary in the clear?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER: Members of Congress, this is Michael Moore. I would like to read to you the Patriot Act.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: "Fahrenheit 9/11," the new film making temperatures rise. Could it also affect this year's presidential election? We have two people; they'll be debating its impact. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: From our studios in Washington, once again, Wolf Blitzer.
BLITZER: Welcome back.
New details emerging now from the Pentagon about the interrogation tactics Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld approved for detainees held at the U.S. Naval base at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. We'll get to that. First, though, a quick check of some other headlines.
Wal-Mart is at the center of the biggest private civil rights case in U.S. history. A federal judge has approved class-action status for a sex discrimination lawsuit against the retailing giant. More than 1.5 million women could be part of the case. Among other things, Wal-Mart is accused of paying women less than men for comparable jobs. The company denies the allegations.
The trial of suspected serial bomber, Eric Rudolph, will remain in Birmingham, Alabama. A federal judge today accepted that as part of a compromise plan, which also allows for jurors to be selected from throughout northern Alabama. Rudolph is scheduled to stand trial in August in the deadly 1998 bombing of a woman's clinic. He's also accused of several attacks in the Atlanta area, including the deadly 1996 Olympic Park bombing. Insurgents in Iraq have killed a South Korean civilian hostage they had been holding since last week, that word from South Korea's Foreign Ministry. The victim, who was beheaded, was a translator for a private company. His kidnappers had threatened to kill him unless South Korea halted its plans to send 3,000 additional troops to Iraq.
Just a few weeks ago, the State Department issued a report citing a three-decade low in fatal terror attack. The figures bolstered the Bush administration's claim of progress in fighting terror. But the numbers were wrong, a drastically different set of figures released today.
Once again, here's CNN's Sean Callebs -- Sean.
CALLEBS: Wolf, exactly.
Those corrected numbers showed terrorist attacks around the world increased last year and far more people were killed than the administration originally said.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CALLEBS (voice-over): Terrorist bombings in Istanbul, Turkey, November of 2003 killed 61 people, but you wouldn't know from the State Department's initial report released in April detailing terror attacks last year. The fatalities weren't included until now, updating a global terrorism report the secretary of state called embarrassing.
Numbers have been sharply revised, from 190 attacks claiming 307 lives in the initial report, to 208 attacks killing 625, more than doubling the number of people who died.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: The report was not designed to make our efforts look better or worse or terrorism look better or worse, but to provide the facts to the American people.
CALLEBS: The war on terrorism has been a cornerstone of the Bush administration. Figures in the initial report were trumpeted, the fewest number of people killed in terror attacks in 35 years.
Changes were made only after Democratic Congressman Henry Waxman raised questions. Problems were found in accounting, misclassification of data and partly since the Terrorist Threat Integration Center, a new conglomeration of government anti-terrorism officials, is now responsible for tracking attacks and deaths.
COFER BLACK, COUNTERTERRORISM COORDINATOR, STATE DEPARTMENT: I assure you and the American people that the errors and the Patterns report were honest mistakes and certainly not deliberate deceptions as some have speculated.
CALLEBS: Critics of the administration have wondered if the initial report is less an oversight and more a sleight of hand.
REP. RAHM EMANUEL (D), ILLINOIS: A funny thing happened on the way to the printer.
CALLEBS: Democratic members of Congress said the initial report made it appear the administration was more successful than it was in reality.
EMANUEL: It appears that a pattern exists of either gross incompetence or gross political manipulation. And neither is worthy of a Cabinet secretary.
CALLEBS: Also not included in the 2003 report, most of the killings in Iraq, saying attacks against troops don't fit the definition of international terrorism.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CALLEBS: When asked if anyone would be fired, the State Department coordinator for counterterrorism said, mistakes should have been caught and that is a decision Secretary Powell will have to make -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Sean Callebs with that report -- thanks, Sean, very much.
The Bush administration has released documents which it says shows just what methods were authorized for the interrogation of detainees at Guantanamo Bay.
Let's go live to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, just about 20 minutes ago, the Pentagon released these documents.
These are the key memos in putting together the policy for interrogating detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The Pentagon insists that, by releasing these documents, it is showing that its actions were bound by American law and American values.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The implication that is out there is that the United States government is engaging in torture as a matter of policy, and that's not true.
MCINTYRE (voice-over): But in October of 2002, in an effort to get Mohammed al-Kahtani, a high level al Qaeda detainee in Guantanamo, to talk, a U.S. commander sent the Pentagon a list of proposed aggressive interrogation tactics. They included convincing the detainee that death or severe pain could be imminent, exposure to cold weather or water, the use of water to induce a perception of suffocating, also known as water-boarding.
But only the last technique was approved, mild, noninjurious physical contact, defined as grabbing someone's arm, poking them in the chest or light shoving. The Pentagon hopes the document released will show that nothing Rumsfeld approved approaches torture. But human rights advocates remain skeptical.
ELISA MASSIMINO, HUMAN RIGHTS FIRST: I think we're beyond a situation where we can be satisfied with the answer, trust us, it's never been used. In fact, it appears there are some in the military chain of command who were unaware that some of this misconduct amounting to torture was engaged in at Abu Ghraib.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: And even though none of those more aggressive techniques, including water-boarding, were approved, a legal memo to Defense Secretary Rumsfeld included in these documents says that they are legally available, just not warranted -- quote -- "at this time."
And among the things that were approved for interrogation at Guantanamo, removal of detainees' clothing and the use of military dogs to prey on their fears or phobias -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre, reporting from the Pentagon -- Jamie, thanks very much.
And only within the past hour or so, the White House has released several documents as well. The president speaking out earlier today, insisting he never authorized any torture of detainees or prisoners.
Here's your chance to weigh in on this important story. Our Web question of the day is this: Is torture ever justified to get information from terror suspects? You can vote right now. Go to CNN.com/Wolf. We'll have the results for you later in this broadcast.
It's the new film riling the right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "FAHRENHEIT 9/11")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With everything going wrong, he did what any of us do. He went on vacation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: It's called "Fahrenheit 9/11," Michael Moore's incendiary documentary bashing the Bush administration. Up next, a debate about its possible impact on this year's election.
Plus, his new book finally on sale, President Clinton is now on the record and on the road pumping up his life in print. We'll get to all of that.
First, though, a look at some other headlines making news around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): At least 48 people are reported dead, many of them civilians, in fighting between Russian and rebel forces in the southern region of Ingushetia. Officials say as many as 100 fighters launched coordinated attacks on three cities, but the offensive was put down by Russian forces. They blame separatists from neighboring Chechnya.
Clashes over separation. Hundreds of Palestinians protested against the barrier now surrounding large portions of the West Bank. Israel sees the structure as a deterrent to terrorism. Palestinians say it's cutting them off from homes, family and livelihoods.
Only in Italy, the latest in police cruisers, a $165,000 Lamborghini Gallardo. The famous automaker donated the car to Italian police.
Day of the dragon. A record 153 teams competed in the annual dragon boat races at Hong Kong's Stanley Beach. The origins of the event date back two centuries when the area was a small fishing village.
And that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
The debate over President Bush and the war in Iraq is coming to a movie theater near you. Michael Moore's new film, "Fahrenheit 9/11," opens this week. It's harshly critical, to say the least, of the Bush administration. The director, Michael Moore, has long been known for his political activism. But some conservatives say, this time, he's even gone perhaps too far.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Filmmaker Michael Moore was never shy about his political opinions.
MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER/AUTHOR: The majority of Americans never voted for that guy who sits in the White House. He was never elected by a majority of the citizens of this country. And I'll keep saying that until he's out of there.
BLITZER: After he won the best documentary Oscar for his anti- gun film, "Bowling For Columbine," Moore used the occasion to slam the Bush administration and the war in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "FAHRENHEIT 9/11")
MOORE: Members of Congress, this is Michael Moore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Now Moore is back with a movie about the Bush administration, and his opinion of the president hasn't improved. "Fahrenheit 9/11" won the top prize at the prestigious Cannes Film Festival in France, but conservative critics say it's political propaganda designed to discredit President Bush as the election approaches. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "FAHRENHEIT 9/11")
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I call you my base.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: They say Moore's film is part of a campaign by Hollywood liberals that includes "The Day After Tomorrow," a disaster movie about global warming featuring a clueless vice president who looks like Dick Cheney.
They also cite "The Hunting of the President," a documentary based on a three-year-old book that claims to expose a conservative plot to destroy Bill Clinton. Producer and director Harry Thomason, a longtime Clinton friend, denies that his film lets the former president off easily.
HARRY THOMASON, CO-DIRECTOR, "THE HUNTING OF THE PRESIDENT": We point out what he did and what traps he walked into it. We don't let him off at all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "FAHRENHEIT 9/11")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, how are you doing? I'm good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: As for Moore, he doesn't deny that "Fahrenheit 9/11" has a point of view. But he says it's based on facts.
MOORE: It's very solid in its facts and very solid in its analysis. And some people, you know, will say, well, I don't agree with that part or I don't agree with this part. That's OK. I'm putting out my own thing.
BLITZER: The Walt Disney Company cited "Fahrenheit 9/11"'s controversial nature went it blocked its Miramax subsidiary from releasing the film. Moore picked up another distributor, but is fighting a decision to give "Fahrenheit 9/11" an R rating for violence and disturbing images and for language. Moore say his wants the film seen by 16-year-olds who could be recruited to serve in Iraq within the next two years.
MOORE: I want people to discuss it and debate it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And this just in. The Motion Picture Association of America has just denied Moore's request to give "Fahrenheit 9/11" a PG-13 rating. As a result, the rating remain R, meaning moviegoers under the age of 17 must be accompanied by an adult.
Is "Fahrenheit 9/11" fair debate or simply political propaganda? And should teenagers be allowed or maybe even encouraged to see it? Former New York Governor Mario Cuomo is joining us now live in New York. U.S. Congressman David Dreier, Republican of California, joins us from Capitol Hill.
I know you were hired, Governor, to try to get it from an R to a PG-13. Why do you think it deserved PG-13?
MARIO CUOMO (D), FORMER NEW YORK GOVERNOR: Well, I thought it did for a couple of reasons, but what I ought to tell you, which you haven't mentioned yet, is that, for some strange reason, after negotiating for three days on how we could get a PG-13, and that didn't work out, the appeal was scheduled and suddenly they discovered that no lawyers would be allowed to appear at the appeal.
Now, there's nothing in the regulations of that group that says lawyers shouldn't be there. And other lawyers have been there, I know, because I discussed it with them. And so I was barred and wasn't able to make the case. And to say that that disappoints me is to put it very, very mildly.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Well, what are you suggesting? Are you suggesting, Governor, that there was...
CUOMO: I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just giving you the facts. They said that you'd have to be in production and distribution, because our rules say that somebody from production or distribution will make the case.
But they have had lawyers before. So we didn't have the benefit of a lawyer's argument. Therefore, better or for worse, that's the fact. Look, the important thing here is that we want to get as many people as possible to see this film, including 16-, 15-, and 14-year- old people, with the advice of their parents. We want them to see it.
Why? Because, in a couple of years, we're going to be asking them to join the armed forces. This war may still be on. They may be the people at risk, etcetera. The basic point here, let everybody see this film and let those who disagree, disagree, but do it in a documentary form. Produce evidence like the evidence Michael Moore has produced and let's have a real debate.
BLITZER: All right, David Dreier, what about that?
REP. DAVID DREIER (R), CALIFORNIA: Wolf, since Mario just mentioned the armed forced, I think it's very appropriate for us to extend our thoughts and prayers to the family of Kim Sun-il, all the people of South Korea and the civilized world.
We are in the midst of a war. There's no doubt about that. I will tell you that I'm a strong proponent of First Amendment rights. I don't want anyone to undermine Michael Moore's opportunity or his right to express himself. But I think that we need to make sure that people understand exactly what this is. This movie -- I've not seen it, but this movie is, based on everything I've seen and read about it, is a mockumentary. And, by the way, I should tell you, I hope very much the president doesn't see that setup piece. As the lone Republican from Hollywood, I might get blamed for all those motion pictures out there that are in fact very critical of Republicans and the president.
But I think it's important to note that, factually, we need to look at a number of very important factors. First and foremost, Richard Clarke said that he personally was responsible for the decision that allowed the family members of Osama bin Laden and others to leave this country after September 11.
It's also important for us to note that this argument that Michael Moore propounds that somehow there's been not an attack on a single American, one of the things that I argued with you, Wolf, repeatedly was that I never saw our action in Iraq to be preemptive. Why? Because during the decade-long effort to control no-fly zones in the north and south of Iraq, Saddam Hussein was firing on American pilots. And so, factually, this is very wrong, Wolf.
BLITZER: Let's let the governor respond.
Go ahead, Governor.
CUOMO: Well, I'm delighted with the congressman's response, because what he wants is a debate over credibility. And that's exactly what we both want.
I must say, the president has a lot of room to improve his credibility. Let's take Richard Clarke. What the film points out is very factual. It says, you flew the bin Laden family out of the United States of America. You pulled levers. You got to the FBI. You got to the White House. You got everybody's permission to take the whole bin Laden family and fly them out of the country.
Forget about whether you know they were violating an FAA rule. But why? Why did that happen? Who else
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CUOMO: Whom else did you help?
BLITZER: David Dreier, why don't you respond to that one specific point?
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: My point is, Wolf, that we raise the question and a debate with David for the next five months about the film would be a very good idea.
DREIER: Listen, obviously, we're going to have that. We're sitting here with you, Wolf, today engaged in the debate.
I think it's important for us to note exactly what this movie is. As far as that specific point, Wolf, clearly, one would infer, from what I've heard and read about the movie, that the president of the United States is being blamed for this decision, when Richard Clarke said in his testimony before the 9/11 Commission that it was his decision and his decision alone to make sure that those flights took place.
And I will say that I think it's fine for us have this debate. But one other little example that I use, just downstairs, I saw my colleague, Congressman Mark Kennedy, who, when -- he's the guy who's in the film, because I've seen the clip carried several times. You know, the microphone was put in front of him by Michael Moore. And in that, he said, gosh, why aren't the family members of Congress more involved in the war and going over there? And, immediately, Kennedy talked about the fact that his nephew had gone.
Well, that was not carried in the film. And so there are all kinds of omissions which lead one to conclude that it's inaccurate.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Hold on one second, both of you. Please hold on one second.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: We're going to take a quick commercial break. We have lots more to discuss. We're also going to broaden the discussion, talk about the Bill Clinton memoirs as well. We have lots more to talk about.
Stay with us.
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BLITZER: We're continuing our conversation with former New York State Governor Mario Cuomo and Congressman David Dreier of California.
Governor Cuomo, is this film simply political propaganda designed to help John Kerry beat George Bush?
CUOMO: Well, I don't know what was in Michael Moore's mind. I don't think it will help President Bush.
But let me get something clear, please. The congressman hasn't seen the film. He's made that point twice. And so he's at a disadvantage. I saw it three times before I agreed to represent the distributors, the owner, and Michael Moore. And I saw it alone. Then I saw with Matilda, my wife. And then I saw it with two of my children and three of my grandchildren, to be sure.
And what I concluded was that he raises in this film, in a documentary form -- this isn't Michael Moore making a speech. This isn't him swearing it so. He shows you pictures. He points out that the prime minister, Bandar, from Saudi Arabia -- Remember the people with the carpet cutters and how many of them were from Saudi Arabia? -- had dinner in the White House with the president two days after 9/11, a private dinner.
He was known as Bandar Bush, he was so familiar with the president and his family.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: But here's the point, Wolf. Here's the point. That raises a question. What did they say? Why the preference for the bin Ladens? That the fact occurred whether Richard Clarke or anybody else approved it, are you telling us the president didn't know? And isn't it a legitimate question to ask, why give them that treatment?
BLITZER: Congressman, go ahead.
CUOMO: That's all this film does. It raises questions.
DREIER: You're absolutely right. I do have plans to see it. Based on the ads, it not going be released until Friday. And I will admit, I'm not going to rush to see it on Friday. But I do have plans to see it at some point.
Let me say this, Mario. In light of the fact that you are obviously, as I am, very, very committed to this openness issue, I was troubled with the fact that this sort of gotcha microphone in your face of one of my colleagues and not carrying the response which Michael Moore would not have liked, in fact was taken out of the film, I would ask if you would be -- play a role in encouraging Michael Moore to sit down with this young man called Michael Wilson, who is in fact doing a movie called "Michael Moore Hates America."
And it seems to me that, since Michael Moore is out there vigorously trying to do these kinds of things, which -- what -- obviously Michael Moore correctly describes as his point of view, his message, I hope that you will encourage him to sit down with this young man who has been desperately trying to get an interview with him.
CUOMO: All right, if in the sweetest moment that my disposition allows me, I was inspired to do that, I don't know how I would explain asking for nice protocols from him, after the Republicans spent, what, $57 million telling lies about President Clinton and trying to stigmatize him.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Just a minute.
To suggest that we ought to ask Michael to be nice, be nice. He's been very nice. He's simply telling truth. And that has made you, I'm afraid, very uncomfortable.
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: That's not quite what Walter Shapiro has said in "USA Today." There are a lot of people -- if you want to talk about Clinton now -- Wolf, I know you wanted to. BLITZER: I wanted to talk about Clinton. We're going to leave that for another occasion, maybe later this week.
DREIER: Look forward to it.
BLITZER: We'll have both of you back. We'll talk about the Clinton memoir.
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: Good to be with you, Governor.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Governor, Congressman, we're out of time. Thanks very much to both of you for joining us, a thoughtful discussion.
The results of our Web question of the day when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Here how you're weighing in on our Web question of the day: 60 percent of you say yes; 40 percent of you say no. Is torture ever justified to get information from terror suspects? Remember, this is not a scientific poll.
A reminder, we're on weekdays 5:00 p.m. Eastern. Tomorrow, live from the White House, Arnold Palmer. He's being honored there.
"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
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Aired June 22, 2004 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening now. Airstrike in Iraq. The target, the safe house of the coalition's public enemy number one. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Hostage beheaded. He pleaded for his life in vain. An ancient practice sows new fear in the Middle East.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will not intimidated by the brutal action of these barbaric people.
Captured crewmen. Iran puts them on display. Will it put them on trial?
Stolen children. Abducted and taken overseas by a parent. I'll speak with John Walsh, crime fighting host of "America's Most Wanted."
"Fahrenheit 9/11." A controversial new film tees off on President Bush.
BUSH: I call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop these terrorist killers. Thank you.
Now watch this drive.
BLITZER: Does it hit too hard?
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Tuesday, June 22, 2004.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: They've done it again. A kidnapping, a video, demands, and now a beheading. This time the victim was a South Korean.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want to die! I don't want to (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Your life is important and my life is important!
BLITZER: But South Korean Kim Sun-Il's dramatic pleas heard around the world were for naught. The South Korean government confirmed Iraqi insurgents had executed the 33-year-old Arabic language translator. He had been working in Iraq for the past year for a South Korean firm supplying goods to the U.S. military. Pentagon officials confirmed he had been beheaded just like the American hostages Paul Johnson in Saudi Arabia and Nicholas Berg in Iraq.
BUSH: The free world cannot be intimidated by the brutal action of these barbaric people. See, what they're trying to do is they're trying to shake our will and our confidence. They're trying to get us to withdraw from the world so that they can impose their dark vision on people.
Kim, Berg, and Johnson were all seen on the Islamist Web sites wearing orange jumpsuits similar to those worn by prison inmates. After kidnapping Kim, the terrorist had given the South Korean government 24 hours to cancel plans to deploy some 3,000 troops to northern Iraq. The demand had been rejected by the government in Seoul. South Korea already has 670 troops deployed in southern Iraq. In announcing the death of Kim, one of the terrorists issued this statement in a videotaped broadcast by Arab TV channel Al-Jazeera.
"We warned you. The deadline has passed. This is the result of your own doings. Enough lies and cheating. Your troops are not here for the sake of the Iraqi people, but they are here to serve the cursed America." But after the body was found, the South Korean government again said it would not be deterred.
SHIN BONG-KIL, SOUTH KOREAN FOREIGN MINISTRY: We reaffirm our plans to send troops to Iraq, because our military deployment is for reconstruction and humanitarian aid support for Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And this late and additionally disturbing note. Senior military sources say that when U.S. troops found the body, they discovered it was booby trapped. As mentioned the insurgents had given South Korea 24 hours to cancel plans to send additional troops to Iraq. South Korea currently has, as we noted approximately 660 noncombat troops in Iraq. These troops primarily army medics and engineers. The country has plans to deploy some 3,000 additional troops to the region. If South Korea proceeds with this deployment as they say they will, it will have approximately 3,600 troops in Iraq. This would be the third largest contingent in Iraq behind those of the United States and Britain.
The reaction in South Korea to Kim's execution, horror and heartbreak. CNN's Sohn Jie-Ae in the capital of Seoul. She's joining us live with more. Tell us what's going on there.
SOHN JIE-AE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the news of Kim Sun- Il's death has devastated the family of Kim Sun-Il who had hoped against hope that their son would return back safe. He was supposed to come back for his father's 70th birthday in July. Kim Sun-Il was a translator for Gana General Trading Company, a food supplier to the U.S. military. He spoke Arabic, he spoke English, he spoke Korean. He was a devout Christian and his mother said he was to be ordained as a Christian minister soon and that he had hoped to return to the Arab world as a missionary. So at this point, they're devastated and seeing that his hope as well as theirs are dashed -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Sohn Jie-Ae with the story of this young man. Thanks, Sohn Jie-Ae, very much for that.
An ancient form of execution becomes a brutal new terror tactic. Is it succeeding? CNN's Brian Todd joins us now live with more -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we now have three beheadings of hostages in less than two months, a pattern going back farther than that and what experts are calling an ominous new signal in the war on terror.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): The images, even those sanitary enough to show on television, are horrific. The very word "beheading" shocks news consumers. And that, experts say, is the whole point.
KEN ROBINSON, CNN MILITARY INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: It's a very effective, graphic image that goes to the core of western Judeo- Christian beliefs as being very abhorrent.
TODD: The decapitation of South Korean hostage Kim Sun-Il, although not shown so far in the media, shows a clear pattern. Most recently with Paul Johnson and Nick Berg but going back to Daniel Pearl and well beyond and what some experts believe could be a developing strategy on the part of terrorists and militants.
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: These beheadings are pretty effective propaganda tool because they're so horrifying. Would you want to stay in these countries if you felt this is a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) strong possibility?
TODD: Beheading as a form of punishment is part of Islamic law and goes back many centuries, but Muslim scholars say it's only supposed to be used as a consequence of a criminal act and must be approved by a judge and the government of the Islamic nation in question. As an instrument of terror, experts say it has no official sanction but several benefits. It signifies the ultimate act of killing one expert says, something very final, abrupt. And terrorism analysts we spoke to say, in this day and age, these types of killings lend themselves to exploitation by the media.
GABRIEL WEINMANN, U.S. INSTITUTE OF PEACE: I think they see that it pays off, that it's really useful. It gets media attention. It gets coverage, exposure they want. It sends messages of threat.
TODD: Messages apparently intended for multiple audiences.
ROBINSON: They are trying to communicate to the west, to those who are contributing to infrastructure rebuilding not to participate. They are trying to scare American public who send their sons, daughters, husbands away to try to convince them not to participate.
(END VIDEOTAPE) TODD: The open question now is, will this method work and drive foreign troops and civilians out of Iraq or Saudi Arabia? Of course, there are many contractors from many countries working in Iraq now. But one terrorism expert we spoke to, he's also a former U.S. special operations soldier, said he has spoken to two former special OPs members who have been recruited for contract work if Iraq. Both are combat veterans, both told him you couldn't pay them enough to go -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Brian Todd with that chilling report. Thanks, Brian, very much. There's a developing situation we're following in Iraq right now. Coalition forces have carried out another air strike in Fallujah. Here's our Baghdad bureau chief Jane Arraf. She's joining us live -- Jane.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Wolf, it's the second strike in three days on what the coalition is calling a known Zarqawi network safe house in the city of Fallujah west of Baghdad. Unclear what type of weapons were used in this one but the coalition says they were precision weapons. And it says it acted on confirmed actionable intelligence.
Now that's intelligence that is deemed credible enough and timely enough for them to act on it and just after 10:00 p.m. tonight, they did. Attacking a house in roughly the same area as an air strike hit a housing compound in Fallujah on Saturday killing an estimated 20 people, including, according to the coalition, members of the Zarqawi network.
Zarqawi, of course, is Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, the wanted fugitive who has been -- who has claimed responsibility and is thought to be responsible for some of the worst attacks in Iraq, as well as connected to the group that may be behind the beheadings. The coalition says that -- has said in the past that it does not have evidence that Zarqawi himself is in Fallujah, but it does believe that part of his network is operating there using these safe houses to help them -- Wolf.
BLITZER: CNN's Jane Arraf in Baghdad for us. Jane, thank you very much. We'll continue to update our viewers on the air strike in Iraq. Also ahead this hour, detained and interrogated in Iran. Could British marines and sailors actually face a trial there?
Terror error. The Bush administration hailed a sharp decline in terror deaths. Why were the numbers so off?
Plus this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: With everything going wrong he did what any of us would do -- he went on vacation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A controversial film, to say the least. One main goal, though, to try to influence the outcome of this year's presidential election. Former New York Governor Mario Cuomo and Republican Congressman David Dryer. They'll debate its impact. That's coming up this hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Two British sailors and six marines are still in Iranian custody, one day after their patrol boats were seized on a waterway between Iran and Iraq. And while there's word their release could come soon, there's nothing official yet coming from Tehran on the men's fate. CNN's Zain Verjee keeping track of the story. She's joining us now live from the CNN Center in Atlanta.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it's a narrow stretch of water that's filled with shipwrecks from the Iran-Iraq war. British patrol boats often navigate their way through the rubbish that's been left behind since the war like fragments of rock, for example. They may have gone over the international boundary between the two countries. That's not really unusual, but the response was.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE (voice-over): Did these eight British servicemen make an honest mistake or were they on what's sometimes called a fishing expedition? Britain says they were on a routine mission. The men were in boats like this often used to train Iraqi patrols. In the sharp Arab waterway, it not easy to know where Iraq ends and Iran begins. British officials say the sailors could easily have made a mistake and crossed into Iranian waters. And the British foreign secretary, Jack Straw, demands, release them.
But Iran says the men will only be released if Tehran is convinced their motives were completely innocent. Observers say Iran's own motives could be a reflection of the current tensions between the two countries and that Iran may have made a big issue of a minor incursion deliberately.
JONATHAN ALTERMAN, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: They're trying to be taken seriously on the world stage and they're trying to be treated respectfully on the world stage instead of being scolded like a 3-year-old who has misbehaved. And this helps them do that.
VERJEE: It's a sensitive time for Iran/British relations. London supported a recent resolution rebuking Iran for not cooperating with nuclear inspectors from the International Atomic Agency. Iran was furious. And this weekend the European Union strongly criticized Iran's human rights record. But some observers believe that Iran needs the Europeans on its side as it faces growing pressure from Washington over its nuclear program.
AFSHIN MOLAVI, NEW AMERICA FOUNDATION: If Iran were to lose Britain now they would be left without a key ally in what is certainly going to be a showdown over Iran's nuclear weapons, alleged nuclear weapons program. VERJEE: Iran says its program is aimed only at producing energy, not weapons. Both London and Tehran seem anxious not to raise the stakes.
WILLIAM COHEN, FMR. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Well, I can see there was no effort to put a military operation into Iranian waters. So we'll have to wait and see. But I think it will be resolved peacefully and they'll be released.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: Wolf, the British government is playing down this incident but analysts say the longer it takes to resolve it the more chance there could be of it becoming a full-blown crisis -- Wolf.
BLITZER: CNN's Zain Verjee, reporting for us. Zain, thanks very much.
Thousands of American children kidnapped and taken abroad over the last two decades. We'll talk about that and more with John Walsh, the host of "America's Most Wanted."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ambassador of Saudi Arabia.
How much money did the Saudis have invested in America, roughly?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: One of the most controversial movies of the year. Now a setback for Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11." We'll tell you what it is.
Plus...
The Clinton memoir, it's out today. Big crowds lining up. We'll show you what the buzz is all about today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: In today's justice report, sentencing for a killer pedophile. A Belgian court ordered Marc Dutroux to spend life in prison for the kidnaping and rape of six young girls and women. Two of them just 8 years old, were starved to death in his basement. Two others were drugged and buried alive. Three co-defendants, including Dutroux's ex-wife, received lesser sentences.
John Walsh knows the horror of child abduction firsthand. His son Adam was kidnapped and murdered in 1981. John Walsh is now the host of "America's Most Wanted," and he's an advocate for missing children. He testified today before the House International Relations Committee on international abductions around the world.
John, thanks very much for joining us. Explain to our viewers what the problem is. JOHN WALSH, HOST, "AMERICA'S MOST WANTED": The problem is that people come to this country, marry an American, and then think that they can steal their kids in a bitter divorce and take them to another country and never have to bring them back home.
BLITZER: There's been 16,000 cases over the past 20 years.
WALSH: Unbelievable. About 400 a year, you're absolutely right. And we have had a nightmare trying to get kids back. We have a treaty with The Hague -- 70 countries have signed it -- but most of the countries that are supposed friends of our ours -- every Middle Eastern country, India, China, Russia -- have not signed it, refuse to sign it.
And we have hundreds of kids -- for example, in Egypt, we've had about 300 kids and we send Egypt $2 billion a year. But Americans can't get American citizens' children back from Egypt, and Saudi Arabia's a big offender, too.
BLITZER: Normally -- normally, what happens is a man comes to the United States, marries an American woman, they have children, the man -- they get divorced, the man decides he's going to take the child or the children back to his home country and, usually in those countries, the American woman has no recourse.
WALSH: No rights at all. And it isn't just men, sometimes it is women. But primarily it is men. And they feel that even though these kids were born in America, have American passports and are legally American citizens and it's against American law that they can just run back to their Muslim country and say, "We're never bringing this child back."
It's a heartbreak, I...
BLITZER: It's not just Muslim countries, there's other countries, as well.
WALSH: Oh, it's other countries. It's -- Russia's one of them, India's another one of them. But our biggest problems are really in the Middle East and Saudi Arabia.
BLITZER: All right, so what did you come up with at this hearing today before Chairman Henry Hyde's committee? What can be done about this?
WALSH: Stiffer penalties, greater involvement with the State Department -- Colin Powell is all for enforcing this -- getting a national registry of custody orders and stopping these people at the border before they leave the United States, and also forcing these countries -- possibly by economic sanction -- to say, "We give you millions of dollars or we do billions of dollars worth of business to you, but you ignore American law. Give these kids back."
BLITZER: Well, how do you stop somebody at the border? If let's say a father shows up with his two kids and they're going to Pakistan or Saudi Arabia or any other country around the world? What are you supposed to do if they have the proper passports, the proper papers? How do you stop that?
WALSH: A lot of parents know this is going to happen. A lot of exes know they're going to have it and they have court orders. There were parents there who testified that they who had court orders for judges, restraining orders, and their kids were kidnapped.
We stop people at our borders that are fleeing fugitives. We have that mechanism now because of 9/11. So, we're trying to get these uniformed custody orders into a computer, maybe the FBI's NCIC, and maybe stop some of them at the borders.
But the real problem is getting them back for these countries to say, "Yes, we do business with America, but we ignore your laws. And these children are going to stay in our countries because we have no regard for American laws."
BLITZER: Let me shift gears for a second. "America's Most Wanted," by all accounts, Osama bin Laden, you've been on the air for years talking about him. Why is it so hard to capture this guy?
WALSH: Well, I'll tell you, he lives in a part of the world where he's revered. People think he's a hero. He goes between the borders of Sudan, Somalia, northern Afghanistan...
BLITZER: Not anymore now, he...
WALSH: No, but he did.
BLITZER: ... between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
WALSH: Probably. Absolutely.
But, when I went over, I started profiling him in 1994, worked with Interpol, went to Dubai and the Arab Emirates where he had gone into the hospital just before 9/11 and had kidney work done. People revere him in that part of the world. They think that he's some kind of hero and we're infidels.
Obviously, there is a certain faction that believe in Osama bin Laden hiding him. Money doesn't matter to them, Wolf. A $25 million reward means nothing to these people that hide him. And look what al Qaeda is doing. I mean, we really have to realize that these people hate us, and number one, I wish all Americans would realize that these four people that were killed -- Daniel Pearl, Nicholas Berg, Paul Johnson, Kim Sun-il -- they're just average people working somewhere. They're not soldiers; they're plucked off of the streets.
What if al Qaeda starts taking American tourists that are going to Italy and England and beheading them? I mean, we're in a war here. And most of these people are Saudis. And that's something that the Saudi government has to deal with. And you and I were talking about it, that the prince -- the Saudi prince can go on television after the 22 murders in the Khobar -- one of them was American, you know, in the Khobar compound there -- and say, on Al-Jazeera television, that these were Israelis Zionists that were response for these murders.
Let's call it like it is. These are Arabs. These are Saudi Arabians that are killing Americans.
BLITZER: John Walsh, the host of "America's Most Wanted" testifying today on Capitol Hill.
John, thanks, as usual.
WALSH: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: An embarrassing about-face today for the State Department, as a new report on terror attacks cites some very different figures than one that was released just a few weeks ago. What the new one says, how they got it wrong -- all that. that's coming up.
Plus -- aggressive tactics. The Pentagon releases new memos on techniques for dealing with prisoners. Does it put the Defense Secretary in the clear?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER: Members of Congress, this is Michael Moore. I would like to read to you the Patriot Act.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: "Fahrenheit 9/11," the new film making temperatures rise. Could it also affect this year's presidential election? We have two people; they'll be debating its impact. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: From our studios in Washington, once again, Wolf Blitzer.
BLITZER: Welcome back.
New details emerging now from the Pentagon about the interrogation tactics Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld approved for detainees held at the U.S. Naval base at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. We'll get to that. First, though, a quick check of some other headlines.
Wal-Mart is at the center of the biggest private civil rights case in U.S. history. A federal judge has approved class-action status for a sex discrimination lawsuit against the retailing giant. More than 1.5 million women could be part of the case. Among other things, Wal-Mart is accused of paying women less than men for comparable jobs. The company denies the allegations.
The trial of suspected serial bomber, Eric Rudolph, will remain in Birmingham, Alabama. A federal judge today accepted that as part of a compromise plan, which also allows for jurors to be selected from throughout northern Alabama. Rudolph is scheduled to stand trial in August in the deadly 1998 bombing of a woman's clinic. He's also accused of several attacks in the Atlanta area, including the deadly 1996 Olympic Park bombing. Insurgents in Iraq have killed a South Korean civilian hostage they had been holding since last week, that word from South Korea's Foreign Ministry. The victim, who was beheaded, was a translator for a private company. His kidnappers had threatened to kill him unless South Korea halted its plans to send 3,000 additional troops to Iraq.
Just a few weeks ago, the State Department issued a report citing a three-decade low in fatal terror attack. The figures bolstered the Bush administration's claim of progress in fighting terror. But the numbers were wrong, a drastically different set of figures released today.
Once again, here's CNN's Sean Callebs -- Sean.
CALLEBS: Wolf, exactly.
Those corrected numbers showed terrorist attacks around the world increased last year and far more people were killed than the administration originally said.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CALLEBS (voice-over): Terrorist bombings in Istanbul, Turkey, November of 2003 killed 61 people, but you wouldn't know from the State Department's initial report released in April detailing terror attacks last year. The fatalities weren't included until now, updating a global terrorism report the secretary of state called embarrassing.
Numbers have been sharply revised, from 190 attacks claiming 307 lives in the initial report, to 208 attacks killing 625, more than doubling the number of people who died.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: The report was not designed to make our efforts look better or worse or terrorism look better or worse, but to provide the facts to the American people.
CALLEBS: The war on terrorism has been a cornerstone of the Bush administration. Figures in the initial report were trumpeted, the fewest number of people killed in terror attacks in 35 years.
Changes were made only after Democratic Congressman Henry Waxman raised questions. Problems were found in accounting, misclassification of data and partly since the Terrorist Threat Integration Center, a new conglomeration of government anti-terrorism officials, is now responsible for tracking attacks and deaths.
COFER BLACK, COUNTERTERRORISM COORDINATOR, STATE DEPARTMENT: I assure you and the American people that the errors and the Patterns report were honest mistakes and certainly not deliberate deceptions as some have speculated.
CALLEBS: Critics of the administration have wondered if the initial report is less an oversight and more a sleight of hand.
REP. RAHM EMANUEL (D), ILLINOIS: A funny thing happened on the way to the printer.
CALLEBS: Democratic members of Congress said the initial report made it appear the administration was more successful than it was in reality.
EMANUEL: It appears that a pattern exists of either gross incompetence or gross political manipulation. And neither is worthy of a Cabinet secretary.
CALLEBS: Also not included in the 2003 report, most of the killings in Iraq, saying attacks against troops don't fit the definition of international terrorism.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CALLEBS: When asked if anyone would be fired, the State Department coordinator for counterterrorism said, mistakes should have been caught and that is a decision Secretary Powell will have to make -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Sean Callebs with that report -- thanks, Sean, very much.
The Bush administration has released documents which it says shows just what methods were authorized for the interrogation of detainees at Guantanamo Bay.
Let's go live to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, just about 20 minutes ago, the Pentagon released these documents.
These are the key memos in putting together the policy for interrogating detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The Pentagon insists that, by releasing these documents, it is showing that its actions were bound by American law and American values.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The implication that is out there is that the United States government is engaging in torture as a matter of policy, and that's not true.
MCINTYRE (voice-over): But in October of 2002, in an effort to get Mohammed al-Kahtani, a high level al Qaeda detainee in Guantanamo, to talk, a U.S. commander sent the Pentagon a list of proposed aggressive interrogation tactics. They included convincing the detainee that death or severe pain could be imminent, exposure to cold weather or water, the use of water to induce a perception of suffocating, also known as water-boarding.
But only the last technique was approved, mild, noninjurious physical contact, defined as grabbing someone's arm, poking them in the chest or light shoving. The Pentagon hopes the document released will show that nothing Rumsfeld approved approaches torture. But human rights advocates remain skeptical.
ELISA MASSIMINO, HUMAN RIGHTS FIRST: I think we're beyond a situation where we can be satisfied with the answer, trust us, it's never been used. In fact, it appears there are some in the military chain of command who were unaware that some of this misconduct amounting to torture was engaged in at Abu Ghraib.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: And even though none of those more aggressive techniques, including water-boarding, were approved, a legal memo to Defense Secretary Rumsfeld included in these documents says that they are legally available, just not warranted -- quote -- "at this time."
And among the things that were approved for interrogation at Guantanamo, removal of detainees' clothing and the use of military dogs to prey on their fears or phobias -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre, reporting from the Pentagon -- Jamie, thanks very much.
And only within the past hour or so, the White House has released several documents as well. The president speaking out earlier today, insisting he never authorized any torture of detainees or prisoners.
Here's your chance to weigh in on this important story. Our Web question of the day is this: Is torture ever justified to get information from terror suspects? You can vote right now. Go to CNN.com/Wolf. We'll have the results for you later in this broadcast.
It's the new film riling the right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "FAHRENHEIT 9/11")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With everything going wrong, he did what any of us do. He went on vacation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: It's called "Fahrenheit 9/11," Michael Moore's incendiary documentary bashing the Bush administration. Up next, a debate about its possible impact on this year's election.
Plus, his new book finally on sale, President Clinton is now on the record and on the road pumping up his life in print. We'll get to all of that.
First, though, a look at some other headlines making news around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): At least 48 people are reported dead, many of them civilians, in fighting between Russian and rebel forces in the southern region of Ingushetia. Officials say as many as 100 fighters launched coordinated attacks on three cities, but the offensive was put down by Russian forces. They blame separatists from neighboring Chechnya.
Clashes over separation. Hundreds of Palestinians protested against the barrier now surrounding large portions of the West Bank. Israel sees the structure as a deterrent to terrorism. Palestinians say it's cutting them off from homes, family and livelihoods.
Only in Italy, the latest in police cruisers, a $165,000 Lamborghini Gallardo. The famous automaker donated the car to Italian police.
Day of the dragon. A record 153 teams competed in the annual dragon boat races at Hong Kong's Stanley Beach. The origins of the event date back two centuries when the area was a small fishing village.
And that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
The debate over President Bush and the war in Iraq is coming to a movie theater near you. Michael Moore's new film, "Fahrenheit 9/11," opens this week. It's harshly critical, to say the least, of the Bush administration. The director, Michael Moore, has long been known for his political activism. But some conservatives say, this time, he's even gone perhaps too far.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Filmmaker Michael Moore was never shy about his political opinions.
MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER/AUTHOR: The majority of Americans never voted for that guy who sits in the White House. He was never elected by a majority of the citizens of this country. And I'll keep saying that until he's out of there.
BLITZER: After he won the best documentary Oscar for his anti- gun film, "Bowling For Columbine," Moore used the occasion to slam the Bush administration and the war in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "FAHRENHEIT 9/11")
MOORE: Members of Congress, this is Michael Moore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Now Moore is back with a movie about the Bush administration, and his opinion of the president hasn't improved. "Fahrenheit 9/11" won the top prize at the prestigious Cannes Film Festival in France, but conservative critics say it's political propaganda designed to discredit President Bush as the election approaches. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "FAHRENHEIT 9/11")
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I call you my base.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: They say Moore's film is part of a campaign by Hollywood liberals that includes "The Day After Tomorrow," a disaster movie about global warming featuring a clueless vice president who looks like Dick Cheney.
They also cite "The Hunting of the President," a documentary based on a three-year-old book that claims to expose a conservative plot to destroy Bill Clinton. Producer and director Harry Thomason, a longtime Clinton friend, denies that his film lets the former president off easily.
HARRY THOMASON, CO-DIRECTOR, "THE HUNTING OF THE PRESIDENT": We point out what he did and what traps he walked into it. We don't let him off at all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "FAHRENHEIT 9/11")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, how are you doing? I'm good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: As for Moore, he doesn't deny that "Fahrenheit 9/11" has a point of view. But he says it's based on facts.
MOORE: It's very solid in its facts and very solid in its analysis. And some people, you know, will say, well, I don't agree with that part or I don't agree with this part. That's OK. I'm putting out my own thing.
BLITZER: The Walt Disney Company cited "Fahrenheit 9/11"'s controversial nature went it blocked its Miramax subsidiary from releasing the film. Moore picked up another distributor, but is fighting a decision to give "Fahrenheit 9/11" an R rating for violence and disturbing images and for language. Moore say his wants the film seen by 16-year-olds who could be recruited to serve in Iraq within the next two years.
MOORE: I want people to discuss it and debate it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And this just in. The Motion Picture Association of America has just denied Moore's request to give "Fahrenheit 9/11" a PG-13 rating. As a result, the rating remain R, meaning moviegoers under the age of 17 must be accompanied by an adult.
Is "Fahrenheit 9/11" fair debate or simply political propaganda? And should teenagers be allowed or maybe even encouraged to see it? Former New York Governor Mario Cuomo is joining us now live in New York. U.S. Congressman David Dreier, Republican of California, joins us from Capitol Hill.
I know you were hired, Governor, to try to get it from an R to a PG-13. Why do you think it deserved PG-13?
MARIO CUOMO (D), FORMER NEW YORK GOVERNOR: Well, I thought it did for a couple of reasons, but what I ought to tell you, which you haven't mentioned yet, is that, for some strange reason, after negotiating for three days on how we could get a PG-13, and that didn't work out, the appeal was scheduled and suddenly they discovered that no lawyers would be allowed to appear at the appeal.
Now, there's nothing in the regulations of that group that says lawyers shouldn't be there. And other lawyers have been there, I know, because I discussed it with them. And so I was barred and wasn't able to make the case. And to say that that disappoints me is to put it very, very mildly.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Well, what are you suggesting? Are you suggesting, Governor, that there was...
CUOMO: I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just giving you the facts. They said that you'd have to be in production and distribution, because our rules say that somebody from production or distribution will make the case.
But they have had lawyers before. So we didn't have the benefit of a lawyer's argument. Therefore, better or for worse, that's the fact. Look, the important thing here is that we want to get as many people as possible to see this film, including 16-, 15-, and 14-year- old people, with the advice of their parents. We want them to see it.
Why? Because, in a couple of years, we're going to be asking them to join the armed forces. This war may still be on. They may be the people at risk, etcetera. The basic point here, let everybody see this film and let those who disagree, disagree, but do it in a documentary form. Produce evidence like the evidence Michael Moore has produced and let's have a real debate.
BLITZER: All right, David Dreier, what about that?
REP. DAVID DREIER (R), CALIFORNIA: Wolf, since Mario just mentioned the armed forced, I think it's very appropriate for us to extend our thoughts and prayers to the family of Kim Sun-il, all the people of South Korea and the civilized world.
We are in the midst of a war. There's no doubt about that. I will tell you that I'm a strong proponent of First Amendment rights. I don't want anyone to undermine Michael Moore's opportunity or his right to express himself. But I think that we need to make sure that people understand exactly what this is. This movie -- I've not seen it, but this movie is, based on everything I've seen and read about it, is a mockumentary. And, by the way, I should tell you, I hope very much the president doesn't see that setup piece. As the lone Republican from Hollywood, I might get blamed for all those motion pictures out there that are in fact very critical of Republicans and the president.
But I think it's important to note that, factually, we need to look at a number of very important factors. First and foremost, Richard Clarke said that he personally was responsible for the decision that allowed the family members of Osama bin Laden and others to leave this country after September 11.
It's also important for us to note that this argument that Michael Moore propounds that somehow there's been not an attack on a single American, one of the things that I argued with you, Wolf, repeatedly was that I never saw our action in Iraq to be preemptive. Why? Because during the decade-long effort to control no-fly zones in the north and south of Iraq, Saddam Hussein was firing on American pilots. And so, factually, this is very wrong, Wolf.
BLITZER: Let's let the governor respond.
Go ahead, Governor.
CUOMO: Well, I'm delighted with the congressman's response, because what he wants is a debate over credibility. And that's exactly what we both want.
I must say, the president has a lot of room to improve his credibility. Let's take Richard Clarke. What the film points out is very factual. It says, you flew the bin Laden family out of the United States of America. You pulled levers. You got to the FBI. You got to the White House. You got everybody's permission to take the whole bin Laden family and fly them out of the country.
Forget about whether you know they were violating an FAA rule. But why? Why did that happen? Who else
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Whom else did you help?
BLITZER: David Dreier, why don't you respond to that one specific point?
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: My point is, Wolf, that we raise the question and a debate with David for the next five months about the film would be a very good idea.
DREIER: Listen, obviously, we're going to have that. We're sitting here with you, Wolf, today engaged in the debate.
I think it's important for us to note exactly what this movie is. As far as that specific point, Wolf, clearly, one would infer, from what I've heard and read about the movie, that the president of the United States is being blamed for this decision, when Richard Clarke said in his testimony before the 9/11 Commission that it was his decision and his decision alone to make sure that those flights took place.
And I will say that I think it's fine for us have this debate. But one other little example that I use, just downstairs, I saw my colleague, Congressman Mark Kennedy, who, when -- he's the guy who's in the film, because I've seen the clip carried several times. You know, the microphone was put in front of him by Michael Moore. And in that, he said, gosh, why aren't the family members of Congress more involved in the war and going over there? And, immediately, Kennedy talked about the fact that his nephew had gone.
Well, that was not carried in the film. And so there are all kinds of omissions which lead one to conclude that it's inaccurate.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Hold on one second, both of you. Please hold on one second.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: We're going to take a quick commercial break. We have lots more to discuss. We're also going to broaden the discussion, talk about the Bill Clinton memoirs as well. We have lots more to talk about.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We're continuing our conversation with former New York State Governor Mario Cuomo and Congressman David Dreier of California.
Governor Cuomo, is this film simply political propaganda designed to help John Kerry beat George Bush?
CUOMO: Well, I don't know what was in Michael Moore's mind. I don't think it will help President Bush.
But let me get something clear, please. The congressman hasn't seen the film. He's made that point twice. And so he's at a disadvantage. I saw it three times before I agreed to represent the distributors, the owner, and Michael Moore. And I saw it alone. Then I saw with Matilda, my wife. And then I saw it with two of my children and three of my grandchildren, to be sure.
And what I concluded was that he raises in this film, in a documentary form -- this isn't Michael Moore making a speech. This isn't him swearing it so. He shows you pictures. He points out that the prime minister, Bandar, from Saudi Arabia -- Remember the people with the carpet cutters and how many of them were from Saudi Arabia? -- had dinner in the White House with the president two days after 9/11, a private dinner.
He was known as Bandar Bush, he was so familiar with the president and his family.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: But here's the point, Wolf. Here's the point. That raises a question. What did they say? Why the preference for the bin Ladens? That the fact occurred whether Richard Clarke or anybody else approved it, are you telling us the president didn't know? And isn't it a legitimate question to ask, why give them that treatment?
BLITZER: Congressman, go ahead.
CUOMO: That's all this film does. It raises questions.
DREIER: You're absolutely right. I do have plans to see it. Based on the ads, it not going be released until Friday. And I will admit, I'm not going to rush to see it on Friday. But I do have plans to see it at some point.
Let me say this, Mario. In light of the fact that you are obviously, as I am, very, very committed to this openness issue, I was troubled with the fact that this sort of gotcha microphone in your face of one of my colleagues and not carrying the response which Michael Moore would not have liked, in fact was taken out of the film, I would ask if you would be -- play a role in encouraging Michael Moore to sit down with this young man called Michael Wilson, who is in fact doing a movie called "Michael Moore Hates America."
And it seems to me that, since Michael Moore is out there vigorously trying to do these kinds of things, which -- what -- obviously Michael Moore correctly describes as his point of view, his message, I hope that you will encourage him to sit down with this young man who has been desperately trying to get an interview with him.
CUOMO: All right, if in the sweetest moment that my disposition allows me, I was inspired to do that, I don't know how I would explain asking for nice protocols from him, after the Republicans spent, what, $57 million telling lies about President Clinton and trying to stigmatize him.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Just a minute.
To suggest that we ought to ask Michael to be nice, be nice. He's been very nice. He's simply telling truth. And that has made you, I'm afraid, very uncomfortable.
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: That's not quite what Walter Shapiro has said in "USA Today." There are a lot of people -- if you want to talk about Clinton now -- Wolf, I know you wanted to. BLITZER: I wanted to talk about Clinton. We're going to leave that for another occasion, maybe later this week.
DREIER: Look forward to it.
BLITZER: We'll have both of you back. We'll talk about the Clinton memoir.
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: Good to be with you, Governor.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Governor, Congressman, we're out of time. Thanks very much to both of you for joining us, a thoughtful discussion.
The results of our Web question of the day when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Here how you're weighing in on our Web question of the day: 60 percent of you say yes; 40 percent of you say no. Is torture ever justified to get information from terror suspects? Remember, this is not a scientific poll.
A reminder, we're on weekdays 5:00 p.m. Eastern. Tomorrow, live from the White House, Arnold Palmer. He's being honored there.
"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
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