Return to Transcripts main page
CNN LIVE SUNDAY
Interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi Considers Declaring Martial Law After Handover; Avastin Offers Hope To Terminal Cancer Patients
Aired June 27, 2004 - 18:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR, CNN LIVE SUNDAY: I'm Carol Lin and here's a look at our top stories this hour. Arab television al Jazeera is reporting that a U.S. Marine has been taken hostage in Iraq. They've shown video with some documents. The militants in the video claim they will kill the Marine if all Iraqi prisoners are not released from what they call, the occupation jails. A coalition spokesman in Baghdad says he has no information on whether the story is correct.
And a huge blast at and Israeli military post in Gaza has wounded 5 Israelis. The blast took place in a tunnel next to the outpost. Hamas and the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade are claiming responsibility for that attack.
In Istanbul, President Bush receives some good news about the request he plans to make at tomorrow's NATO summit. NATO's secretary- general says the organization will agree to help train Iraqi forces after Iraqis officially take control of their country on Wednesday.
With three days to go before the handover of power, Iraq clearly remains a tinderbox with deadly attacks occurring across the country. And amid all of this, CNN's Chief International Correspondent Christiana Amanpour had the chance to sit down with Iraq's interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi to talk about establishing security and a lot more.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Do you have any reason to believe they would?
IYAD ALLAWI, IRAQ INTERIM PRIME MINISTER: I think so, yes.
AMANPOUR: Have they already approached you?
ALLAWI: We have some approached made, yes.
AMANPOUR: There's been a lot of talk about how you plan to crack down. You, your defense minister, the interior minister have talked about a showdown. Talked about tough action, confronting the terrorists. What precisely does that mean?
ALLAWI: Well --
AMANPOUR: Is it martial law?
ALLAWI: We are considering a host of issues. What we are considering is public safety -- defense of public safety law, and other laws to be implemented. Definitely we are mobilizing our police force. We definitely are mobilizing our army and make it ready to confront the enemies of Iraq, and the criminals and the terrorists.
LIN: Christiana Amanpour will have much more on the marine hostage situation in Iraq. And the rest of her Allawi interview tonight on our Prime Time show, CNN SUNDAY NIGHT, at 10:00 pm Eastern.
But right now let's look at the situation on the ground in Iraq. Five hostages, including an American are waiting to learn their fate. The insurgency is kidnapping and frankly, killing at will. The Iraq's prime minister is both offering amnesty to insurgents and threatening martial law as you heard in that interview.
Mamoun Fandy is our voice on the Middle East. He is a senior fellow at the U.S. Institute of Peace, and he is in our Washington bureau tonight. Mamoun, good to see you. A new hostage situation that we're looking at. Your take on this taking of hostages is a shift in strategy by al-Qaeda. What do you mean that?
MAMOUN FANDY, U.S. INSTITUTE OF PEACE: It's an important shift, because al-Qaeda is now very weak and desperate, given all the attacks against al-Qaeda in Saudi Arabia, in Afghanistan, in Iraq. So their major objective as terrorists is to strike fears in the heart of civilian citizens.
Since they cannot deliver on major attacks like the 9/11 or attacks that cause mass killing in Iraq itself, they are going, as you put it, personal, doing it piecemeal, one at a time. Luring one foreign worker in Iraq, and beheading them as it happened with the case of the Korean (UNINTELLIGIBLE), or with Mr. Johnson in Saudi Arabia. And things like that. So it's a sign of desperation and weakness.
LIN: We should take some comfort in that, but earlier I spoke with a journalist Michael Ware, who has embedded himself with these insurgents, who have been kidnapping and killing. He's been with them for about a month, and this is what he had to say about their mindset right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL WARE, TIME MAGAZINE: This is world war. This will continue to judgment day. This is about perpetuating a state of Jihad. That's the goal now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Now, he was operating -- not operating, but acting as a journalist with these insurgents who were in the city of Fallujah. He said that he saw bomb-making factories, terror training going on freely in the city of Fallujah since the Americans have pulled out. What should the coalition or now the new Iraqi government next week do you about Fallujah? FANDY: Well, I think Fallujah is made up of the foreign terrorists as well as Saddam loyalists in the Sunni Triangle. Those who would be the losers in the coming Iraqi state. Notice from Allawi's interview with Christiane Amanpour that he's really tough. He's not going to be like the Americans.
He's not going to treat Fallujans like sweats or something. He's not going to call Pentagon lawyers before he takes action. This is an Iraqi guy who knows exactly what he has to do. You will see an increase in violence for a while, but then it will subside. But the major issue...
LIN: Is the new Iraqi government going to simply abandon Fallujah, and allow terrorists to operate freely in that city?
FANDY: No, I think they will go into Fallujah. But they will go Iraqi-style. They will not just seek the advice of lawyers where to conduct operations and whether they are legally culpable or not. It is going to be tough. And many of the ex-regime police are being rehabilitated and put into Allawi's force. And I think it will be tough action.
LIN: To put an Iraqi face on an Iraqi problem.
LIN: Any effect though of this amnesty program that he is offering for some of these insurgents? Or even the threat of martial law?
FANDY: I think that martial law means that he will have a freer hand in sort of taking that tough action. I think it is very difficult to do amnesty to these people, because most of them are not Iraqis. And also there are certain cultural constraints against this whole idea of reconciliation in Iraq. Something similar to South Africa. Iraqis do not admit guilt very easily.
LIN: All right. Three days counting down to the handover. Thank you very much. Mamoun Fandy. Senior Fellow to the U.S. Institute of Peace.
FANDY: Thank you Carol.
CNN is committed to bringing you complete coverage leading up to Iraq's new sovereignty. Tune in tonight to a CNN PRESENTS special report, with Anderson Cooper live from Baghdad. "Countdown to Handover," that's tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 5:00 Pacific.
Now our look at everyday people in the war. In our "front lines" segment tonight. Members of the National Guard units. They are from all walks of life. One of them soon to be on the very front lines has a very famous neighbor. CNN's Dana Bash explains.
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): These days Kent Berry's story is a familiar one. Small-town national guardsman called for duty in Iraq. But he's not just from any small town. He's from Crawford, Texas, home of the Commander in Chief.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still making plans, yeah?
KENT BERRY, CHAPLAIN FROM CRAWFORD, TEXAS: Yes. They've got me locked and loaded and chambered.
BASH: Berry is a Methodist minister. One of his two churches is up the road from the President's ranch. Lately his preaching hints at the sacrifice he's about to make.
KENT BERRY: Life truly is a battle. It reminds me very much of a person who once said that when the church is on fire, everyone carries a bucket.
BASH: This weekend, he reports to the 386th Combat Engineers Battalion to serve as Chaplain, 18 months away from home, a full year in Iraq.
BASH: (on camera): Are you scared?
KENT BASH: Well, you know, it's scary, yes. Anyone that's involved in this would -- if they have any sense about it at all, would know that. Should feel, yes.
BASH (voice over): His wife and three kids are frightened, but mostly they're upset about what dad's going to miss.
BETHANY BERRY, DAUGHTER: He'll be gone my senior year, so I was like I don't want him to go. I want him there for those memories. But I mean, he's got to go. He's got to take his turn.
BRITTANY BERRY, DAUGHTER: I'm just sad he won't be at my basketball games. And if I'm in track, then he won't be there either to see me run.
BENJAMIN BERRY, SON: So supportive of me, of everything I do. I just love him so much. It will be sad.
BASH: Vicky Berry backed the war her husband is now being sent to, and still does.
VICKY BERRY, WIFE: It was right for us to go in, and to do what we've done. And we're right to stay and try to finish the job if at all possible.
BASH: Berry's congregants are anxious about their pastor going to Iraq. But proud he'll be ministering to young troops who will need him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He nurtures his flock. And he will nurture his flock in Iraq.
BASH: Despite diminishing support the President faces over the Iraq war was necessary, this hometown pastor is matter of fact. KENT BARRY: This is not something we want. This is something we're doing.
BASH: It is he says, simply his duty. Dana Bash, CNN reporting.
LIN: What are the issues that will help sway your vote this November? The economy? Healthcare? The war in Iraq? Still to come, a look at some of the main concerns that Americans are facing, as they prepare to head to the polls this fall.
Plus, she was the first lady of ketchup. If she becomes the first lady of the U.S., she'll stand out from all the other wives. We're going to explain why.
But, first, we'll take a look at a new medical breakthrough that could save even the toughest cases.
Any family battling cancer knows that the treatment can be worse than the disease. The sharp sting of a needle is just the beginning of the pain of chemotherapy. But a new breakthrough drug is about to pave the way for revolutionary way, and a compassionate way to be treated and survive.
We have two special guests coming up. But first, CNN Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen begins or coverage.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: This is the standard treatment today for cancer. A one size fits all drip for chemotherapy. Or a blast of radiation. But the latest approaches are treatments that are individualized for each patient. And targeted to kill cancer cells, and spare healthy tissue.
DR. DAVID JOHNSON, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: Targeted therapies which we've talked a lot about for the last couple years are really coming to fruition.
COHEN: The current treatments, chemotherapy and radiation, can't distinguish between normal cells and cancer cells, which is why patients often have debilitating side effects. Several new approaches attack just the cancer. Some by looking for specific markers on malignant cells. Others by cutting off the blood supply to tumors.
So far these new approaches have shown success at shrinking tumors. Prolonging life for a few months. And with fewer side effects. Some of these new treatments are in pill form.
JOHNSON: This is a drug that an individual can take by mouth, a pill. And compared to the standard treatments that are available to us today, a survival advantage is imparted to that group of individuals. Moreover, not only does that group of patients survive longer they do so with limited amount of side effects.
COHEN: Another new development in cancer treatment, a patient's genes can determine if certain drugs will work for them. The hope one day is that cancer patients will get genetic testing first to see which drugs will work best.
JOHNSON: Pharmacogenetics will permit physicians to personalize medicine in a very specific ways. It will allow us to select drugs that work more effectively against the cancer that that particular patient has, and avoid hopefully the side effects that are unique to that particular drug.
COHEN: Individualized treatments for cancer patients taken as a pill at home that kill only cancer cells are not the medical reality right now, but the hope for the future. Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Atlanta.
LIN: Our next guests will bring home this story. Dr. Fairooz Kabbinavar is the senior author of the Avastin study. That is a drug recently approved by the F.D.A. that starves tumors and colorectal cancers. He's an oncologist and researcher at the Jonnson Cancer Center. And is the lead researcher on Avastin.
Fred Holper had the most advanced form of colorectal cancer. He's alive today thanks to this drug. It is good to see both of you. Let me begin with you, Dr. Kabbinavar. What do these targeted therapies, and specifically, the drug you researched, Avastin. What does that mean for the priorities of cancer research going forward?
DR. FAIROOZ KABBINAVAR, UCLA'S JONSSON CANCER CENTER: Well, Carol, the drug Avastin works in a different way altogether. Normally as you've heard before, treatments for cancer are directed against the cancer cells. Avastin works by starving the cancer cells by targeting the blood supply. So in that respect, it's different from other treatments.
And the fact that in a large study, we showed that not only we can control the cancer, improve the response rate, but patients also live longer when they receive chemotherapy plus the drug Avastin. All with limited side effects. So this is an important breakthrough. Going forward, Avastin will probably show that it can be used in a variety of commonly occurring cancers, such as lung cancer, breast cancer, prostate. There is a lot of research being done. And this is an important first step in that direction.
LIN: So 20 years from now, or however many years, how do you envision cancer patients being treated then?
KABBINAVAR: Well, in the future, the more and more clinical trials are being done by combining multiple targeted therapies. And in fact, there are clinical trials going on at UCLA as well as other places where we do not use chemotherapy at all. We have drugs that target different receptors or different targets on a cancer cell. So without chemotherapy in the mixture. LIN: Fred Holper, let me get to you. You were 47 years old. About to be married when you were diagnosed with stage four, the most extreme stage of colorectal cancer. You had surgery. And then doctors offered you the opportunity to go on this drug. You didn't try any other drugs. But what happened next?
FRED HOLPER, CANCER PATIENT: As soon as my oncologist mentioned the chance of going on this clinical trial which featured the Avastin, I jumped at it. Because I realized being in the medical field, I only had about six to eight months left. And I had nothing to lose.
When I went on the trial, the success was phenomenal. After the first 12 weeks, my tumors had shrank by a total of 70 percent. And my quality of life was near normal. And as my wife would say, I did very well. And three and a half years later, I'm still here.
LIN: But you're still being treated with Avastin. Is that right?
LIN: So Dr. Kabbinavar, how long does a patient have to stay on Avastin? Would you consider this a cure?
KABBINAVAR: Well, a cure in individual cases. But this drug by no means cures cancer. That I want to make very clear. Now, how long does a patient have to take Avastin, or Avastin-like treatments? Two things need to be met. One is that the cancer needs to be kept under control. It should not progress. And then patients should not have intolerable side effects.
Now, we are in sort of unchartered waters. We have patients that have gone three-and-a-half years like Fred. And then other patients here in UCLA, and surrounding areas where we have a patient that's gone six years out. So we try and give patients a drug holiday, if you will. And then usually use drugs such as Avastin, which do not have the traditional chemotherapy side effects, as maintenance therapy.
LIN: Right. Fred, you are going to be one of the success stories. I'm pretty confident in you. How has it changed your life?
HOLPER: How has it changed my life? I'm much more empathetic towards my patients that I deal with when I'm at work. And I enjoy my life more one day at a time. And try and just appreciate everything that I have. And I do have a lot. And I am very blessed.
LIN: Yes. And aren't we all, to know how to survive, and how to stay alive and hope for the best. Thanks for which. Fred Holper. Dr. Kabbinavar, thank you very much. And good luck with you research going forward.
KABBINAVAR: Thank you Carol.
HOLPER: Thank you. LIN: Well if you have underestimated her net worth, better catch up. A closer look at the wallet of Teresa Heinz Kerry. Teresa Heinz Kerry, Mrs. John Kerry when we return.
It's the economy, stupid. Remember that phrase? Bill Clinton rode it into the White House in his first election. Many analysts believe presidential contexts are now won based on how well the economy is doing. So why does CNN's Bill Schneider say not so fast?
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In a presidential election, the economy rules, right? Look at what happened to President Bush's father. His great victory in the Persian Gulf vanished when he ran for reelection in 1992. The economy brought him down. This year, the economy's picking up --
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES: Our economy is strong. Today people are getting back to work.
SCHNEIDER: Economists have devised mathematical models to make political forecasts. They predict with an economy this good, President Bush should win by a landslide in November, 58 percent. But President Bush isn't doing nearly that well in the polls right now, 40 percent. Neck and neck with John Kerry.
Those economic forecasts work, except when they don't work. In every presidential election from 1940 through 1972, more than 30 years, the main issue was not the economy. It was international affairs. A world war in the 1940s, the Cold War in the 1950s, Vietnam in the 1960s. The 1960 Kennedy Nixon debates focused obsessively on world affairs.
JOHN F. KENNEDY, FORMER PRESIDENT: Freedom in the next generation, or will the communists be successful?
SCHNEIDER: Since 9/11, national security has once again dominated the agenda. That's supposed to be President Bush's issue.
BUSH: We're still in a battle against ideological extremists who use terrorism as a tool. To frighten, scare, kill people such as us who love freedom.
SCHNEIDER: But the war in Iraq has changed all that. Suddenly the President finds himself on the defensive on national security.
JOHN KERRY, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Our military should never, ever, be overextended and put in harm's way, because we decided to go it alone.
SCHNEIDER: President Bush now gets higher marks for his handling of the economy than he does for Iraq. But the issue driving this campaign seems to be Iraq. With a big test to come next week. SEN. JOHN MCCLAIN, (R) ARIZONA: The terrorists know that this is very critical time. If they can prevent a handover of the government from the United States military to this Iraqi government, they will have achieved great success.
LIN: Well, the wife of Democratic Presidential Candidate John Kerry is a member of the billionaires club. According to the "Los angels Times", Teresa Heinz Kerry controls a fortune worth $1 billion. She's seen her wealth double in the last nine years. Heinz-Kerry inherited most of her wealth from her first husband, Republican Senator John Heinz, who died in 1991.
That's all the time we have for this hour. Coming up at 7:00 Eastern is PEOPLE IN THE NEWS. And I'll be back at 10:00 pm for more on the American hostage situation. And I'll also go inside the Iraq insurgency with a reporter who has been living among them. The hours headlines when we come back. And then PEOPLE IN THE NEWS.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com