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America's Voice: Handover of Power to Iraq; Today's Talker
Aired June 29, 2004 - 06:47 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Now let's take a look at what people really think about the handover and the chance of success for Iraq's new government.
Joining us now is Gallup Poll editor-in-chief Frank Newport.
Good morning to you.
FRANK NEWPORT, GALLUP POLL EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Good morning.
Indeed, Betty, mixed signals is how I would put it. Seventy- five percent of Americans say it's great that the handover has occurred. Fifty-four percent, that's what I'm showing you here, say they do believe that the handover of power to the Iraqis from the coalition will, in fact, improve the situation in Iraq.
However, let me show you. We asked Americans: Will the handover produce these positive benefits? And there are mixed results here. This is the American public opinion here. A little skepticism on what's going to happen long term within the next five years. Peace and security in Iraq, only 39 percent say yes. Will democracy absolutely be established? Half and half, 52 say yes. The same kind of thing: Will Iraqis become friendly to the U.S.? Only half of Americans think so at this point.
So, it's good news the handover occurred, say the American public. Some skepticism that a lot of these benefits are going to occur -- Betty.
NGUYEN: And for troops, how long do they want American troops to remain in the country?
NEWPORT: Well, Americans would like troops to come home within a year. About 70 percent say that. But some skepticism that that's going to happen.
This is the question: How long will troops remain in Iraq? The American public, a lot of them, think it's going to be years and years. Look at the numbers. Only about 36 percent say troops will be there for two years or less. That's the top two rows. You've got a large number of the majority of Americans who think that American troops will still be in Iraq three years or longer.
NGUYEN: All right, Frank Newport, thank you.
We want to go now live to Baghdad with CNN's Brent Sadler for the latest there -- Brent. BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Betty, thanks very much.
Ayad Allawi, the interim prime minister, has just held a brief news conference. Let's not forget, 24 hours since he assumed sovereignty from the outgoing Coalition Provisional Authority, Mr. Allawi has been telling journalists that the handover of Saddam Hussein and his top officials from the ousted regime will be taking place tomorrow.
This is what Mr. Allawi had to say to journalists just a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AYAD ALLAWI, IRAQI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): The government has formally requested the transfer of the most notorious and high-profile detainees to Iraqi legal custody. Saddam Hussein, along with up to 11 other high-value detainees, will be transferred to the legal custody of Iraq tomorrow, and will be charged before an Iraqi investigative judge on the following day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SADLER: This was expected as one of the first responsible tasks of the new administration. What we heard from Mr. Allawi during that news conference is that Saddam Hussein could technically be allowed to defend himself if he rejects Iraqi lawyers that will be made available to him. If Mr. Saddam Hussein cannot pay for his own defense, according to the interim prime minister, then the Iraqi government itself will pay for Saddam Hussein to have a team of his own defense lawyers.
He was asked whether or not this would be a possibility for the former president to grandstand, to use it as a propaganda stage, and he brushed that aside, saying that this will be an open hearing, a very professional hearing, following the rules of law, that Saddam Hussein will be given a fair trial during, as I say, this open hearing.
The legal custody of Saddam Hussein will be passed on to the Iraqis tomorrow, but physical detention of the former president will remain very much in the hands of the U.S.-led coalition -- Betty.
NGUYEN: CNN's Brent Sadler in Baghdad, thank you very much.
We want to talk more about all of this with liberal talk radio host Mike Malloy and conservative talk show host Neal Boortz.
Good morning to both of you. Thanks for being here.
MIKE MALLOY, LIBERAL RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hey, Betty.
NEAL BOORTZ, CONSERVATIVE RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Good morning.
NGUYEN: Neal, let's start with you. You just heard Ayad Allawi talk about the fact that they're going to put Saddam Hussein on trial in a number of months from now. And he called it a fair and just trial. Can Saddam Hussein get a fair and just trial?
BOORTZ: Well, I don't know that much about the legal system they're setting up over there in Iraq. I mean, one would hope so, because I was kind of amused about, "What if there is no evidence?" Now, there is something interesting to contemplate, isn't it? No evidence against Saddam Hussein.
But not knowing that much about the Iraqi legal system, it's going to be hard to say whether it will be fair and just, but with, you know, the entire world basically watching that, it might even be bigger than O.J.'s I'm sure that the pressure will be on to make it look good.
NGUYEN: Mike, a lot of pressure. Is the Iraqi government ready for this? I mean, security-wise, they're not ready for a lot of things in that country.
MALLOY: I don't think the Iraqi government, Betty, is ready for anything. The people of Iraq must be trying to decide whether or not this is farce or tragedy. You have the two top people in this so- called government are people -- are two men that the Iraqi people have determined they don't want anything to do with. The prime minister is a long-term CIA asset, a former member of Saddam's government.
So, this was not a handoff. This was a fumble. And I think we're going to see much, much more violence in the coming weeks.
BOORTZ: Oh, that's good.
NGUYEN: So, you think the handover was premature.
MALLOY: I do, but the fact that it was handed over to people who do not represent -- these people were not picked by the Iraqis. This would be like during our revolution that the British would have said, OK, you guys win. Here are your leaders. It's ludicrous.
BOORTZ: Now, now, now wait a minute. OK. Japan after World War II, Germany after World War II, essentially the same thing. The victors immediately or initially chose the people who would lead those governments. There was a period of unrest. There was a period of transition. And right now, Germany and Japan are two of the strongest economies in the entire world.
A CIA asset? This was somebody who was opposed to Saddam Hussein. So, the CIA had links with him. I guess the expectation we get from the left here is that the only legitimate government we could put into power in Iraq right now would be to go out and get some disgruntled Baathists and put them right back in, and then that would be branded by the left as being legitimate.
MALLOY: Well, that's exactly what Allawi is. He is a disgruntled Baathist.
BOORTZ: No, I don't -- I didn't mean to say "disgruntled."
MALLOY: And...
BOORTZ: I mean a real Baathist.
MALLOY: OK.
BOORTZ: Let's put them back in power and then that will be legitimate.
MALLOY: You know, you used Germany as an example. It took 10 years. The U.S. had to occupy Germany until 1955. Finally, in that period, they elected their own leader, Konrad Adenauer, who was the first prime minister of post-war Germany. He was not appointed by a U.S. military tribunal.
So, again, I'm sorry, Neal, but this is -- again, I don't know if it's tragedy or farce, but the Iraqi people will soon determine that.
BOORTZ: Well, you see, that's my point exactly. You don't immediately go from occupation in a war to a popularly-elected government in the country. It didn't happen immediately in Germany, as you just pointed out. It didn't happen immediately in Japan. But eventually over a period of time they became two stable, free members of the world's economic community. And the same thing, hopefully, will happen to Iraq.
But, you know, there is no good news here for the left. Never any good news. Remember last Thanksgiving when Bush visited the troops in Iraq? The left needed something to condemn so badly. So what did they pick on? He was showing a fake turkey. My goodness, there is nothing that can happen in Iraq right now that's going to please the opposition.
NGUYEN: OK, Neal, but when the troops -- if security is not up to par, you're saying this handover is right on, when should troops come home then?
BOORTZ: The troops didn't come home from Germany, as Mike pointed out, for years. If they come home tomorrow, then we lose Iraq. Some of the really good news this week is that NATO is going to participate in the training of Iraqi security forces. People are stepping forward across that country to volunteer to be a part of the Iraqi security forces. Hopefully, it will move fast. Maybe it won't. But you don't build a free country out of a despotic dictatorship in one year. It just doesn't happen like that.
NGUYEN: Mike, do you agree U.S. troops simply can't cut and run now?
MALLOY: I think that's a whole different issue. But what is intriguing to me is the way Mr. Boortz, my good friend, Neal, here, talks about how the left -- and I would assume he's talking about the American left...
BOORTZ: No, I'm talking about Mike.
MALLOY: ... has nothing -- sees nothing positive in this hand- off. My question to Neal would be simply the American left or the American right should have nothing to say about this whatsoever. These are the Iraqi people. This government, so-called, is a joke. It was hand-picked by the pro-council, Bremer, who got on board his helicopter and took off. When you have a government that is appointed in the dark of night, if you'll pardon the terminology there, a government appointed in the dark of night, and then the pro-council, a person who appoints it, takes off, this is beyond farce. This is beyond ludicrous.
So, it has nothing to do with the American left. It has nothing to do with the American right. What it has to do with are the people of Iraq, and I don't think they're going to stand for this government.
NGUYEN: Let's talk about the economics of it all. We just heard Ayad Allawi say that Iraq could possibly fund Saddam Hussein's trial. This is a country that still owes some $120 billion in debt to many countries. What should be done about debt? And should they support Saddam by paying for this trial?
MALLOY: That debt is going to be forgiven. That's one of the primary goals of the Bush administration is to get that debt forgiven. That debt has to be forgiven so that as the Iraqi oil continues to be pumped, it can wind up in the pockets where it really belongs, and not the British and American oil companies, the British and the American oil executives, and the hangers-on to the Bush administration. So, that debt, a large part of it, will be forgiven.
NGUYEN: OK, Mike, we need your opinion very quickly. We're almost out of time. What do you think?
BOORTZ: You mean Neal.
NGUYEN: I'm sorry, Neal.
BOORTZ: OK. First of all, I love the "dark of night" thing. You see, there is no way this can be handled right. It was in the dark of night. Yes, I think the debt will probably be forgiven, and I think that the Iraqi, the profits from the Iraqi oil will go to the Iraqi people. But, you know what? The oil companies that get that oil out of the ground and distribute it worldwide, they're going to make money, too. But that's called capitalism, something else that the left just cannot come to terms with.
NGUYEN: Mike Malloy and Neal Boortz, we appreciate both of your opinions this morning. Thank you very much.
MALLOY: Thanks, Betty.
BOORTZ: Take care.
NGUYEN: Stay tuned to CNN DAYBREAK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Well, that does it from the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta. I'm Betty Nguyen. AMERICAN MORNING starts right now. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired June 29, 2004 - 06:47 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Now let's take a look at what people really think about the handover and the chance of success for Iraq's new government.
Joining us now is Gallup Poll editor-in-chief Frank Newport.
Good morning to you.
FRANK NEWPORT, GALLUP POLL EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Good morning.
Indeed, Betty, mixed signals is how I would put it. Seventy- five percent of Americans say it's great that the handover has occurred. Fifty-four percent, that's what I'm showing you here, say they do believe that the handover of power to the Iraqis from the coalition will, in fact, improve the situation in Iraq.
However, let me show you. We asked Americans: Will the handover produce these positive benefits? And there are mixed results here. This is the American public opinion here. A little skepticism on what's going to happen long term within the next five years. Peace and security in Iraq, only 39 percent say yes. Will democracy absolutely be established? Half and half, 52 say yes. The same kind of thing: Will Iraqis become friendly to the U.S.? Only half of Americans think so at this point.
So, it's good news the handover occurred, say the American public. Some skepticism that a lot of these benefits are going to occur -- Betty.
NGUYEN: And for troops, how long do they want American troops to remain in the country?
NEWPORT: Well, Americans would like troops to come home within a year. About 70 percent say that. But some skepticism that that's going to happen.
This is the question: How long will troops remain in Iraq? The American public, a lot of them, think it's going to be years and years. Look at the numbers. Only about 36 percent say troops will be there for two years or less. That's the top two rows. You've got a large number of the majority of Americans who think that American troops will still be in Iraq three years or longer.
NGUYEN: All right, Frank Newport, thank you.
We want to go now live to Baghdad with CNN's Brent Sadler for the latest there -- Brent. BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Betty, thanks very much.
Ayad Allawi, the interim prime minister, has just held a brief news conference. Let's not forget, 24 hours since he assumed sovereignty from the outgoing Coalition Provisional Authority, Mr. Allawi has been telling journalists that the handover of Saddam Hussein and his top officials from the ousted regime will be taking place tomorrow.
This is what Mr. Allawi had to say to journalists just a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AYAD ALLAWI, IRAQI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): The government has formally requested the transfer of the most notorious and high-profile detainees to Iraqi legal custody. Saddam Hussein, along with up to 11 other high-value detainees, will be transferred to the legal custody of Iraq tomorrow, and will be charged before an Iraqi investigative judge on the following day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SADLER: This was expected as one of the first responsible tasks of the new administration. What we heard from Mr. Allawi during that news conference is that Saddam Hussein could technically be allowed to defend himself if he rejects Iraqi lawyers that will be made available to him. If Mr. Saddam Hussein cannot pay for his own defense, according to the interim prime minister, then the Iraqi government itself will pay for Saddam Hussein to have a team of his own defense lawyers.
He was asked whether or not this would be a possibility for the former president to grandstand, to use it as a propaganda stage, and he brushed that aside, saying that this will be an open hearing, a very professional hearing, following the rules of law, that Saddam Hussein will be given a fair trial during, as I say, this open hearing.
The legal custody of Saddam Hussein will be passed on to the Iraqis tomorrow, but physical detention of the former president will remain very much in the hands of the U.S.-led coalition -- Betty.
NGUYEN: CNN's Brent Sadler in Baghdad, thank you very much.
We want to talk more about all of this with liberal talk radio host Mike Malloy and conservative talk show host Neal Boortz.
Good morning to both of you. Thanks for being here.
MIKE MALLOY, LIBERAL RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hey, Betty.
NEAL BOORTZ, CONSERVATIVE RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Good morning.
NGUYEN: Neal, let's start with you. You just heard Ayad Allawi talk about the fact that they're going to put Saddam Hussein on trial in a number of months from now. And he called it a fair and just trial. Can Saddam Hussein get a fair and just trial?
BOORTZ: Well, I don't know that much about the legal system they're setting up over there in Iraq. I mean, one would hope so, because I was kind of amused about, "What if there is no evidence?" Now, there is something interesting to contemplate, isn't it? No evidence against Saddam Hussein.
But not knowing that much about the Iraqi legal system, it's going to be hard to say whether it will be fair and just, but with, you know, the entire world basically watching that, it might even be bigger than O.J.'s I'm sure that the pressure will be on to make it look good.
NGUYEN: Mike, a lot of pressure. Is the Iraqi government ready for this? I mean, security-wise, they're not ready for a lot of things in that country.
MALLOY: I don't think the Iraqi government, Betty, is ready for anything. The people of Iraq must be trying to decide whether or not this is farce or tragedy. You have the two top people in this so- called government are people -- are two men that the Iraqi people have determined they don't want anything to do with. The prime minister is a long-term CIA asset, a former member of Saddam's government.
So, this was not a handoff. This was a fumble. And I think we're going to see much, much more violence in the coming weeks.
BOORTZ: Oh, that's good.
NGUYEN: So, you think the handover was premature.
MALLOY: I do, but the fact that it was handed over to people who do not represent -- these people were not picked by the Iraqis. This would be like during our revolution that the British would have said, OK, you guys win. Here are your leaders. It's ludicrous.
BOORTZ: Now, now, now wait a minute. OK. Japan after World War II, Germany after World War II, essentially the same thing. The victors immediately or initially chose the people who would lead those governments. There was a period of unrest. There was a period of transition. And right now, Germany and Japan are two of the strongest economies in the entire world.
A CIA asset? This was somebody who was opposed to Saddam Hussein. So, the CIA had links with him. I guess the expectation we get from the left here is that the only legitimate government we could put into power in Iraq right now would be to go out and get some disgruntled Baathists and put them right back in, and then that would be branded by the left as being legitimate.
MALLOY: Well, that's exactly what Allawi is. He is a disgruntled Baathist.
BOORTZ: No, I don't -- I didn't mean to say "disgruntled."
MALLOY: And...
BOORTZ: I mean a real Baathist.
MALLOY: OK.
BOORTZ: Let's put them back in power and then that will be legitimate.
MALLOY: You know, you used Germany as an example. It took 10 years. The U.S. had to occupy Germany until 1955. Finally, in that period, they elected their own leader, Konrad Adenauer, who was the first prime minister of post-war Germany. He was not appointed by a U.S. military tribunal.
So, again, I'm sorry, Neal, but this is -- again, I don't know if it's tragedy or farce, but the Iraqi people will soon determine that.
BOORTZ: Well, you see, that's my point exactly. You don't immediately go from occupation in a war to a popularly-elected government in the country. It didn't happen immediately in Germany, as you just pointed out. It didn't happen immediately in Japan. But eventually over a period of time they became two stable, free members of the world's economic community. And the same thing, hopefully, will happen to Iraq.
But, you know, there is no good news here for the left. Never any good news. Remember last Thanksgiving when Bush visited the troops in Iraq? The left needed something to condemn so badly. So what did they pick on? He was showing a fake turkey. My goodness, there is nothing that can happen in Iraq right now that's going to please the opposition.
NGUYEN: OK, Neal, but when the troops -- if security is not up to par, you're saying this handover is right on, when should troops come home then?
BOORTZ: The troops didn't come home from Germany, as Mike pointed out, for years. If they come home tomorrow, then we lose Iraq. Some of the really good news this week is that NATO is going to participate in the training of Iraqi security forces. People are stepping forward across that country to volunteer to be a part of the Iraqi security forces. Hopefully, it will move fast. Maybe it won't. But you don't build a free country out of a despotic dictatorship in one year. It just doesn't happen like that.
NGUYEN: Mike, do you agree U.S. troops simply can't cut and run now?
MALLOY: I think that's a whole different issue. But what is intriguing to me is the way Mr. Boortz, my good friend, Neal, here, talks about how the left -- and I would assume he's talking about the American left...
BOORTZ: No, I'm talking about Mike.
MALLOY: ... has nothing -- sees nothing positive in this hand- off. My question to Neal would be simply the American left or the American right should have nothing to say about this whatsoever. These are the Iraqi people. This government, so-called, is a joke. It was hand-picked by the pro-council, Bremer, who got on board his helicopter and took off. When you have a government that is appointed in the dark of night, if you'll pardon the terminology there, a government appointed in the dark of night, and then the pro-council, a person who appoints it, takes off, this is beyond farce. This is beyond ludicrous.
So, it has nothing to do with the American left. It has nothing to do with the American right. What it has to do with are the people of Iraq, and I don't think they're going to stand for this government.
NGUYEN: Let's talk about the economics of it all. We just heard Ayad Allawi say that Iraq could possibly fund Saddam Hussein's trial. This is a country that still owes some $120 billion in debt to many countries. What should be done about debt? And should they support Saddam by paying for this trial?
MALLOY: That debt is going to be forgiven. That's one of the primary goals of the Bush administration is to get that debt forgiven. That debt has to be forgiven so that as the Iraqi oil continues to be pumped, it can wind up in the pockets where it really belongs, and not the British and American oil companies, the British and the American oil executives, and the hangers-on to the Bush administration. So, that debt, a large part of it, will be forgiven.
NGUYEN: OK, Mike, we need your opinion very quickly. We're almost out of time. What do you think?
BOORTZ: You mean Neal.
NGUYEN: I'm sorry, Neal.
BOORTZ: OK. First of all, I love the "dark of night" thing. You see, there is no way this can be handled right. It was in the dark of night. Yes, I think the debt will probably be forgiven, and I think that the Iraqi, the profits from the Iraqi oil will go to the Iraqi people. But, you know what? The oil companies that get that oil out of the ground and distribute it worldwide, they're going to make money, too. But that's called capitalism, something else that the left just cannot come to terms with.
NGUYEN: Mike Malloy and Neal Boortz, we appreciate both of your opinions this morning. Thank you very much.
MALLOY: Thanks, Betty.
BOORTZ: Take care.
NGUYEN: Stay tuned to CNN DAYBREAK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Well, that does it from the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta. I'm Betty Nguyen. AMERICAN MORNING starts right now. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
