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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Saddam Hussein to Appear in Iraqi Court; Interview With Michael Berg
Aired June 30, 2004 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening now. Saddam Hussein and 11 of his former aides only hours away from a perp walk of historic proportions. And an appearance in an Iraqi court.
They don't know what's in store for them but we have details and we'll tell you.
Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
Saddam's shock. The ex-dictator gets the news that he's now in Iraqi custody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's going to be the trial of the century and everybody is going to watch this trial.
BLITZER: A father's mission. His son was beheaded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can understand that the Iraqi people would feel the same way about an American who killed one of their family members.
BLITZER: He just wants to bring the troops home. I'll speak with Michael Berg.
Getting out of Guantanamo? After a Supreme Court scolding, will the Bush administration move hundreds of detainees from Cuba to U.S. mainland?
Parole. He served 16 years for beating his adopted daughter to death. Now, he's left prison in a limo.
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Wednesday, June 30, 2004.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: He held absolute power and used it ruthlessly but according to a top Iraqi legal official, Saddam Hussein looked visibly shaken when told today he's in the custody of the new Iraqi government. Tomorrow he'll be in court to hear the charges against him.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: When we finally see Saddam Hussein in an Iraqi courtroom, sources say he will look a lot different than the most recent photos of him taken last December when he was captured after hiding in a hole. Among other things, the sources say he's been dramatically cleaned up. But despite the outside appearance, we will also see a very different Saddam Hussein than the one who ruled Iraq with an iron fist for decades. Mouwaffak Al-Rubaie is Iraq's new national security adviser.
MOUWAFFAK AL-RUBAIE, IRAQ NATL. SECURITY ADVISER: I believe the outside world would see Saddam in the box, shivering and frightened, demoralized and repentant and apologetic.
BLITZER: Like the other 11 Iraqi prisoners who will make brief court appearances, Saddam will be handcuffed. U.S. officials say Saddam has not provided much useful information during his months of interrogation by various representatives from the Pentagon, the CIA, and the FBI. They say he still insists he's the president of Iraq and due all the appropriate respect and courtesies.
AL-RUBAIE: Saddam is a stubborn, is a pig-headed, is highly self-indoctrinating and self-perpetuating himself.
BLITZER: In short, don't expect Saddam to say he's sorry and to apologize to the Iraqi people.
AL-RUBAIE: This is our thing. It's going to be the trial of the century and everybody is going to watch this trial and we're going to demonstrate to the outside world that we in the new Iraq is going to be an example of what is the new Iraq is all about.
BLITZER: U.S. officials say Saddam is in good physical shape. They note he has been seen three times by representatives from the International Committee for the Red Cross, most recently earlier this month. The Iraqis may now have legal custody of Saddam but he remains in U.S. hands.
DAN SENOR, FMR. COALITION SPOKESMAN: They have asked us to help with the security of Saddam Hussein which is why we will maintain the physical custody. The last thing they want is Saddam Hussein being killed or being freed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: In Baghdad, it seems no one is neutral on the fate of Saddam Hussein. Our senior international correspondent Brent Sadler reports from the Iraqi capital.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRENT SADLER, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's being forced to take the first step on a long road to justice. No longer a prisoner of war subject instead, to Iraq's own penal code. Justice has been seen to be done in Iraqi homes once starved of uncensored news. Their former president faces a possible death penalty for 35 years of merciless rule. This is the old Saddam bestowing rewards on loyal acolytes, a far cry from his latest appearance where he wanted to ask questions, a request denied. His upcoming trial months away has set off passionate debate here.
Ibrahim Saad (ph), a shopkeeper, claims Saddam killed his sons and let his family starve. Ibrahim rages, "he left us with nothing but our underwear. May he be cursed in this world and the next."
But with the anonymity of radio, Iraqi opinion may not be so clear cut. A popular radio station here took a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) poll of listeners during a one-hour phone-in. It concluded that while over 45 percent supported the death sentence for Saddam a stunning 41 percent thought he should be released.
The legal fate of 11 of Saddam Hussein's top officials was also transferred to Iraqi control, although they'll all remain locked up in an American-run jail.
Tariq Aziz, one of the best known faces of the old regime was also transferred to Iraqi custody along with Ali Hassan Al-Majid known as Chemical Ali for his alleged role in using chemical weapons said to be visibly shaking.
The deposed leadership is expected to face charges of crimes against humanity including genocide. "Saddam deserves a slow death, slower than slow," says Ahmed Shinjur (ph), a restaurateur, "in the way he made innocent people suffer."
Iraqis demonstrating freedom of expression after liberation from Saddam Hussein and his handover to the new Iraqi government. Brent Sadler, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: As we mentioned, Saddam Hussein and his henchmen will be brought before a judge tomorrow and charged with a long list of crimes. CNN's Anderson Cooper once again in Baghdad, joining us now live. Anderson, let's look ahead. We heard Brent say it's still months away from any trial. Give us a little look ahead.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Well, we heard that yesterday from Prime Minister Iyad Allawi who warned the Iraqi people, look, you have to be patient. This is going to take many months, indeed. There will be many, many charges. Saddam Hussein's trial is not likely to be the first one. The idea being to build a case through other people through his lower-level people, build a case ultimately against the dictator and it should be probably as early, maybe perhaps as January of 2005. That would probably be the earliest there would be of some sort of trial beginning, but it may not be even be until well into 2005 -- Wolf.
BLITZER: So the notion that those trials could begin before the U.S. presidential election November 2, it looks like that theory is going away. Is that right, Anderson? COOPER: It would seem highly unlikely. I mean, there's so much still to be worked out. At the very least, security. I mean, you know, as you well know the U.S. is going to maintain physical custody of Saddam Hussein and the others simply because the Iraqi security forces are not up to the job at this point. There's months of training ahead and months of reequipping and that is just one aspect of this. They are still building cases. They are still looking to the charges. Tomorrow when Saddam Hussein appears in court, the formal charges are not going to be read against him. That is going to come months from now as they build this case.
BLITZER: Anderson Cooper reporting for us from Baghdad as he has now for the past several days. Anderson, thank you very much.
This important note to our viewers. Anderson will, of course, be anchoring his program live from Baghdad tonight. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" begins at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 Pacific. A little bit less than two hours from now live from Baghdad.
Mortar fire rained down on a U.S. base today near the Baghdad International Airport. According to military sources, insurgents launched up to ten mortar rounds at a logistics base wounding 11 soldiers. The salvo started a fire which burned for an hour. The base is operated by a unit of the New Mexico National Guard.
U.S. embassy in Baghdad was officially opened today. Ambassador John Negroponte presided over the flag-raising ceremony. The flag had been lowered when diplomatic ties were severed at the time of the 1991 Gulf War. The Baghdad mission will now become the largest U.S. embassy in the world.
Missing in Iraq. Updates on the fates of U.S. Marine Corporal Wassef Hassoun and also Army Specialist Matt Maupin. Plus this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the victim and the victim's family it doesn't matter. Dead is dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A father speaks out on the beheading of his son and the war in Iraq. My interview with Michael Berg. That's coming up next.
Detainee dilemma. Why some suspected terrorists held at the U.S. Naval Base in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba could be moved to prisons right here in the United States.
Sexual misconduct at school. A disturbing number of children targeted in and around their classrooms. Why your child could be next. A follow-up to that story we brought you yesterday. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There's still no word at this hour on the fate of U.S. Marine Corporal Wassef Hassoun. An Iraq insurgent group that's claimed responsibility for kidnapping Hassoun is threatening to kill him unless Iraqi prisoners are released. Hassoun disappeared more than a week ago. After initial suspicions Hassoun may have deserted, the Pentagon now lists him as captured.
U.S. Army Specialist Matt Maupin has been missing in Iraq since an April attack on a convoy near Baghdad. Although Arab television showed what were said to be pictures of Maupin's execution the Pentagon says it's not convinced the man on the tape actually was him. Brigadier General Mike Beasley says he wants to assure Maupin's family the search is continuing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. MIKE BEASLEY, U.S. ARMY: And we just came out today to reassure you that, one, there is no bad information. There is no negative information with respect to Specialist Maupin that is known now. We're also continuing full efforts in attempting to locate him and return him safely to his family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: When the American civilian Nicholas Berg was beheaded by Iraqi insurgents last month, the murder outraged all of America, indeed, much of the world. Berg's father Michael is a critic of the Iraq war and since his son's death he has been traveling to try to advocate peace. He was in London when I spoke with him earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Michael Berg, thanks very much for joining us. Our deepest condolences to you and to your family. No family of course should endure what your family has gone through. Unfortunately though, other families are going through a similar ordeal right now. What goes through your mind?
MICHAEL BERG, NICHOLAS BERG'S FATHER: Well, first of all, my deepest sympathies for those families. And for those families that have someone that is detained now, I would like to tell them that they need to keep hoping that their loved one will be returned to them. I think that every one of these situations is different and I'm hoping with them for the return of their loved ones.
BLITZER: What would you like to say to the family of the Marine who's currently being held, we assume, somewhere in Iraq. The Marine Wassef Ali Hassoun.
BERG: Well, I certainly hope for the safe release of him. I certainly advise you to keep your hope up, to keep in touch with the people who are giving you information about him. And I certainly hope that he returns home safely to you.
BLITZER: We know your son was Jewish, obviously, and we know that the South Korean translator was a Christian. Paul Johnson was a Christian. Wassef Ali Hassoun a Muslim. Do you feel the fact that your son was Jewish had anything to do with his murder? BERG: Well, especially the way -- the way you put that it doesn't seem that it would have mattered. I have no way of knowing that. Nothing that I saw that al Qaeda said mentioned the fact that he was Jewish. I'm not even sure that they knew it. I think they knew that he had Israel on his passport, stamped on his passport because he had flown through Israel, but I don't know whether they knew he was Jewish or not.
BLITZER: I see you're wearing a T-shirt that says, "Bring the troops home." I know you've been very active. You're in London right now. What are you doing there?
BERG: I'm in London to speak at a rally tonight at Parliament Square. The message is that the transfer of power, the supposed transfer of power is bogus, that the Iraqi people have given no mandate to the people who are receiving this power, that the Iraqi people have given no mandate to the ex-CIA prime minister that has been given power by the Bush administration, that the military will remain, that even the puppet government that is set up by the Bush administration will have no power over the military, no power over legislation that involves their own security or their own finances.
I've looked up the word sovereignty in the dictionary and I guess this is another redefinition like torture was for George Bush because I didn't find any elements that I just described in the definition of sovereignty.
BLITZER: By almost all accounts that I've read, Mr. Berg, you and your son Nick had very different political views. He supported the Bush administration and the effort to remove Saddam Hussein from power and go to war, didn't he?
BERG: Yes, he did.
BLITZER: Do you feel he would be, excuse me, angry right now to see what you're doing, given his political views?
BERG: No. I know he wouldn't. Every time that I went to a political rally, an anti-war rally, when I'd come home he'd say, "Dad, you know, I disagree with you but I respect you for going out and standing up for what you think is right." When Nick told me he was going to Iraq, I told him the same thing that I disagreed with him about the validity of this war and that I worried for his safety, but that I respected and admired him for being a man of actions who did what he believed, who stood up for what he believed in.
BLITZER: You know there have been all sorts of wild conspiracy theories that have been out there on the Internet, especially, making all sorts of allegations against your son Nick. Do you believe any of those?
BERG: No.
BLITZER: You knew, obviously, Nick better than anyone. Why did he go to Iraq? BERG: Nick went to Iraq for the same reason that he had gone to Africa for three times in his life from the time he was 20 years old on. And that reason was that Nick had great abilities, great skills in the area of electronics and radio tower communication and in many areas, most of them scientific, but he also had a tremendous heart and a tremendous ability to connect his skills with the social need that he saw wherever he -- wherever he was. That's what he was doing there.
People have written to me and said, oh, your son was just greedy and he just went over there to make money. My son didn't make any money over there. He didn't make any money in Africa any of the times he went there. He lost a bundle of money every time he left this country. I can tell you that because I was his business manager as well as his father. Money is not what motivated my son. If you can see where he lived and how simply and plainly he lived, you would know that that's the truth.
BLITZER: If there are other Nick Bergs watching this interview right now out there in the United States who want to go over to Iraq and try to help the Iraqi people as your son Nick tried to do, what do you say to them?
BERG: I would say that you have to be sensitive to the desires of the Iraqi people. The Iraqi people don't want us there. The Iraqi people don't want American civilians there and they don't want American military there and I can understand that.
I can understand that having Americans in Iraq would be the same as my having the five men who killed my son living across the street from me and going to work every morning and, you know going out to get the newspaper and seeing them going off to their work of killing people. And I can imagine how that would make me feel. And I think that's probably the way Iraqi people who have lost someone feel.
Over 11,000 Iraqis have died. And they have affected thousands of people each one of them. I doubt that there is a person in Iraq who hasn't lost someone at -- either because of American bombs or because of the American destabilization of Iraq, which has allowed these terrorists to come in. There weren't any al Qaeda in Iraq before we got there. That's been proven by an American commission.
BLITZER: But, Mr. Berg, I want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding what you're saying. You're not equating the U.S. military and their role in Iraq right now to those terrorists who beheaded your son, are you?
BERG: I'm saying that I can understand that the Iraqi people would feel the same way about an American who killed one of their family members, as I feel about the al Qaeda.
BLITZER: All right. But you're not saying that there is an equivalency here.
BERG: I'm not saying there is an equivalency. I'm saying that to the victim and to the victim's family it doesn't matter. Dead is dead.
BLITZER: Once again, Michael Berg, our deepest condolences to you and to your family. I know this has been an awful, awful ordeal. Our hearts go out to you. Thanks very much for joining us.
BERG: Thank you.
BLITZER: I spoke with Bush administration officials after the interview. They, of course, strongly disagree with Michael Berg's view on the war, although they continue to express their deepest sympathies to him and to his family. This note: tomorrow we will get a very different perspective from Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter. He's the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee and has just returned today from Iraq.
A human catastrophe unfolding in Africa: widespread raping, looting and burning of large areas. Colin Powell is there right now. We'll have a live report from Sudan.
Outrage in New York as a famous child killer Joel Steinberg is set free after serving only 17 years.
Risky mission: high above Earth, two astronauts make a second attempt at a space walk this hour. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: After 17 years, almost 17 years after a crime that shocked America, convicted child killer Joel Steinberg is now out of prison. A former lawyer, Steinberg was released on parole today after serving part of his manslaughter sentence for the beating death of his 6-year-old adopted daughter. CNN's Jason Carroll has the story.
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JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Joel Steinberg left an upstate New York prison in a white limousine. He left without commenting on a case that changed the way that people think about child abuse. It was a case that began with a 911 call.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was congested and seemed to have stopped breathing.
CARROLL: It came on November 2, 1987, from Hedda Nussbaum. Her adopted daughter Lisa wasn't breathing. Nussbaum said Lisa had choked on food. Police found her naked and filthy. They also found her 16- month-old adopted brother tied to a playpen tied with twine. He was returned to his biological family.
Later, doctors discovered old bruises on Lisa's body. They also noticed obvious signs of abuse on Nussbaum. Three days after arriving at the hospital, Lisa died. Police charged Nussbaum and her live-in lover Joel Steinberg with murder.
JOEL STEINBERG, CONVICTED OF MANSLAUGHTER: I do not hit, strike or use any form of forceful discipline of any sort. CARROLL: Steinberg denied claims he beat Lisa, because she stared at him. What is undisputed is Steinberg and Nussbaum had illegally adopted Lisa at birth. Her teachers saw bruises over time, neighbors heard screams from their West Village brown stone, but no one investigated. Years later, Nussbaum explained how Steinberg controlled her.
HEDDA NUSSBAUM, JOEL STEINBERG'S FRM. GIRLFRIEND: I was really brainwashed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is deserving of the maximum sentence...
CARROLL: A deadlocked jury reached a compromise verdict, manslaughter instead of murder. After Lisa's death, New York State required anyone licensed to deal with children to take a course in recognizing abuse. Lisa's middle class background also changed stereotypes of victims of child abuse.
DR. KATHERINE GRIMM, CHILDREN'S ADVOCACY GROUP: People who are poor and minorities are assumed to be the major group of perpetrators, child abuse crosses also socioeconomic lines and all ethnic lines.
CARROLL: Steinberg served the required two-thirds of a maximum 25-year sentence, not enough for one former juror.
JEREMIAH COLE, FORMER JUROR: I think justice would only be served if Joel Steinberg spent the rest of his life, in some way, trying to atone for what he did.
CARROLL: In a chaotic scene, Steinberg returned to New York City. According to his conditional release, he has to stay away from his former adopted son and Hedda Nussbaum.
(on camera): She avoided prosecution by testifying against him. Because of his release, she has gone into hiding.
Jason Carroll, CNN, Pine City, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: New York governor George Pataki called Steinberg's early release an outrage. Pataki released a statement, let me quote from it, "The sweeping criminal justice reforms we've enacted in recent years, including our ban on parole for all violent felons, are now helping to ensure that dangerous criminals like Joel Steinberg stay behind bars for as long as possible.
"In fact," Pataki goes on to say, "if our reforms had been in place at the time he was sentenced, Steinberg would have been kept behind bars for years to come."
A controversial new novel on a taboo subject threatening the president of the United States: Is it freedom of speech or a license to inspire violence? We'll take a look at that.
Plus, the U.S. Supreme Court says they have access to American courts. Now, detainees at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba could be on the move.
Peace mission: Secretary of State Colin Powell gets a first-hand look at the humanitarian crisis in Sudan, we'll go there.
And divulging his royal duties and more. Prince Charles issues his first self-report. Details just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Dealing with the detainees held in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. Will some of them be moved to the United States? There are developments. We'll take a look at what's to come.
First, though, a quick check of some other headlines.
For the first time in four years, a key short-term interest rate is going up. The Federal Reserve today hiked the federal funds rate 0.25 percent to 1.25 percent. And that means banks will most likely fall in line, hiking their prime lending rate for many short-term consumer and business loans.
An ongoing shoot-out in Saudi Arabia's capital has left a Saudi police officer and a handful of militants dead. Officials in the kingdom say they believe the militants are linked to al Qaeda. Sources say the man believed to be the terror group's top ideologue in Saudi Arabia was one of those killed.
Accused al Qaeda operative Jose Padilla has met with his attorneys for the first time since the Supreme Court ruled on his case. The attorneys met with Padilla at Naval brig in Charleston, South Carolina, where he's being held. Padilla is a U.S. citizen. He's classified as an enemy combatant. He was arrested two years ago. The court ruled Monday so-called enemy combatants have a right to challenge the evidence behind their detention in a legal hearing.
The Bush administration is seeking to come up with a plan for dealing with hundreds of anticipated lawsuits now that the U.S. Supreme Court says Guantanamo Bay detainees have the right to fight their detention legally.
Our national correspondent Bob Franken has more on this story, some of the problems, some of the possible solutions -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, for all who are involved right now, Wolf, it's back to the drawing board.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice-over): Government officials acknowledge they were just not expecting the Supreme Court to create this new reality. Now the Pentagon, Justice Department and other agencies are scrambling, forced to deal with the here and now what.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: They're discussing these issues as we speak and they've already been under discussion since the court ruling on Monday, I believe it was. And we'll have more to say soon.
FRANKEN: But now the government no longer has all the say. The Supreme Court has ruled the detainees must have a hearing and lawyers.
BARBARA OLSHANSKY, CENTER FOR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS: What we need to do is move quickly in the court to get to see our clients and to be able to, you know, move their case forward.
FRANKEN: They never have. Their clients had been separated from any outside contact at Guantanamo Bay.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I would characterize Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, as the least worst place we could have selected.
FRANKEN: That was back when the Bush administration decided Guantanamo was out of reach of the U.S. courts. Among the many ideas being batted around now is moving the detainees by the hundreds, perhaps, off of Guantanamo Bay to a military prison or prisons in the United States.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I'm not in a position to say what the range of potentials is, but that we are making that assessment.
FRANKEN: No longer will the next move be entirely up to the government.
MICHAEL NOONE, MILITARY LAW EXPERT: They will be subject to judicial review of individual decisions as to why a person is being detained in Guantanamo or at some third place.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN: And for starters, someone will have to devise a procedure for letting the detainees know that they have new legal rights, rights that could theoretically influence how long they are detainees -- Wolf.
BLITZER: From the federal government's perspective, what is the advantage of moving them from Guantanamo Bay to the continental United States?
FRANKEN: Well, it would be just a matter of perhaps, somebody suggested putting them in a conservative area where the judges might be more sympathetic to them, but some of the defense lawyers say, that doesn't really matter, that legal rights are legal rights.
BLITZER: All right, Bob Franken, reporting for us, thanks very much.
Secretary of State Colin Powell is in Sudan for a first-hand look at what some call the world's worst humanitarian crisis unfolding right now.
CNN's Jeff Koinange is live in the Sudanese capital of Khartoum. He's joining us on the phone.
Set the scene for us, Jeff. What's going on?
JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, a monumental day in Darfur, where Secretary of State Colin Powell was actually on the ground in strife-torn areas, where up to 30,000 people have been killed in the last several months, up to a million displaced.
Colin Powell speaking to humanitarian workers, to the few peacekeepers on the ground, to villages, to displaced refugees, assuring them that help is at hand. He is here to flex some muscle, Wolf. And I had an exclusive interview with him. I pressed the issue. I said, what is going on in the region? He told me: I come away from this trip with an understanding that we have a humanitarian catastrophe in Darfur.
I press pressed him further, saying, why is no U.S. official mentioning the word genocide? Because aide officials say that's what's happening in Darfur. He said: Let's not put labels on these terms. We know what the situation is. We know what we have to do and we know how much muscle we have to flex.
Wolf, that's the extent he could go. He would not mention the G- word, genocide that all aide workers are referring to. And Western analysts are all saying genocide is taking place, but the U.S. would not call it genocide. They said it's a catastrophe that has to be taken care of and the Sudanese government has to now put up or shut up -- Wolf.
BLITZER: CNN's Jeff Koinange in Khartoum in Sudan for us -- thanks very much, Jeff.
The situation in Sudan is poised to become a full-fledged human catastrophe. It already is getting very close. It's already unlike anything seen in Africa since the genocide in Rwanda a decade ago.
CNN's Zain Verjee is at the CNN Center. She has got more now on this crisis and how it came about -- Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the war in Darfur is about political power and money. It's a war that has no foreseeable end.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE (voice-over): Are we witnesses to genocide in slow motion?
Images trickling from a poor region in western Sudan piece together the disaster that is Darfur, refugees fleeing bloodshed, bombed or burned-out villages. Recent satellite pictures show the destruction in Darfur. The black circles here indicate burned villages. Almost 400 villages are said to be damaged or destroyed.
In neighboring Chad, about 200,000 terrorized survivors tell of massacre and mass rape, burning and butchering by Arab militias called janjaweed, targeting them because they are black. International rights groups say there is evidence atrocities have been committed by the Arab militias backed by the Sudanese government, a charge the government denies.
It's estimated up to 30,000 people have been killed in more than a year of war. What's the war about? Old-fashioned reasons, money and power. Two rebel groups in Darfur are demanding political rights and a share of oil wealth. The government's response:
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drive the communities who might support the rebellion out of their homes, out of their villages and out of their homes in order to drain the water to catch the fish.
VERJEE: Experts say there are indications the killing is systematic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have a scale now that certainly meets that which we usually require for genocide findings.
VERJEE: Journalists have been barred from entering much of the region, the size of France or Texas. One photojournalist was able to enter Darfur. His pictures show a ghost town, punctuated only by fresh graves and rubble.
More than a million refugees, like these, are internally displaced, huddled in government-controlled camps in Darfur. Aid agencies say one million could die, not by the bullet, but by other weapons of war.
What you are going to have is death by starvation, death by thirst, death by disease.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: Wolf, experts say the United Nations need to take actions. It can do a couple of things, they say, one publicly condemn the Sudanese government for the disaster in Darfur, and, two, consider targeted sanctions and armed intervention against Sudan.
BLITZER: Zain, what are you hearing? Will the Sudanese government act under pressure?
VERJEE: Well, policy experts that I've spoken to say the Sudanese government has really perfected the art of doing just the bare minimum to act when they're under pressure, just enough to cause the pressure to subside.
So, in this instance, with the U.S. secretary of state there, with the U.N. secretary-general there, it really remains to be seen how Khartoum and whether it will change the horrific reality on the ground -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And it is horrific, indeed. CNN's Zain Verjee reporting for us -- thanks, Zain, very much.
Political humor or freedom of speech gone too far? Find out why a new novel is raising some serious concerns here in Washington. That's ahead.
Plus, do you know what your children are really learning in school? A shocking new study out today.
And later, flying rings around Saturn, a view that's truly out of this world. That's coming up.
First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Three thousand mourners attended the funeral for Kim Sun-il, the South Korean hostage beheaded in Iraq. Korean investigators have started a probe into Kim's abduction and the unsuccessful effort to win his release.
Moving the barrier. Israel's Supreme Court has ordered the government to amend its plans for a barrier intended to protect Israel from Palestinian suicide bombers. The court says a 20-mile stretch of the barrier must be rerouted so it won't separate Palestinian villagers from their farms.
Last-minute rush. Cuban-Americans lined up for flights to visit family members one more time before tough new U.S. restrictions go into effect. Many were turned away. The new restrictions allow visits to Cuba once only every three years.
Royal report. After promising to provide more information about his activities and finances, Prince Charles has issued his first corporate-style annual report. The prince says his official duties include supporting the queen and raising funds for charity. And his expenses include paying a small office staff to assist his companion, Camilla Parker Bowles.
And that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Yesterday, we reported the shocking story of a middle school teacher in the Tampa, Florida, area, 23-year-old Debra Lafave, who is accused of having sex with a 14-year-old student. Those of you watching the program yesterday will, of course, remember.
Today, a follow-up, the broader issue of sexual misconduct between public school employees and students, it's making headlines once again.
CNN's Brian Todd is here with a truly alarming story -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, an important distinction here.
In that Lafave case, the student in question was, according to police reports, receptive to Debra Lafave's alleged advances. But officials at the Department of Education say many teenage kids and certainly younger students are not equipped to make any kind of decision on sex, whether they're receptive to it or not. And today, the department puts out some alarming new numbers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): During any given school day, your child's well being could be in the hands of several adults, teachers, principals, bus drivers, volunteers. According to a new study, a surprising number of children are subject to unwanted sexual conduct on the part of those same adults.
BRIAN JONES, DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION: The initial reaction is one of surprise and one of great concern.
TODD: The study commissioned by the Department of Education, but conducted by a professor at Hofstra University shows that nearly one in 10 public school children in the U.S., more than 4.5 million, reported being targets of sexual misconduct some time between kindergarten and 12th grade. But an important perspective.
The study defines sexual misconduct as unwanted penetration or the touching of breasts or genitals, widely characterized as abuse, but also includes sexually related jokes, conversations, questions directed at students and the showing of pictures of a sexual nature. Critics say putting all those behaviors under one category of sexual misconduct is a distortion and creates undue alarm.
MICHAEL PONS, NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION: It lumps together incidents where a person might make a comment that made someone uncomfortable together with cases of actual sexual abuse. And it sends an unreal picture about what's actually happening in the public schools.
TODD: But the author, Charol Shakeshaft, tells CNN the study does break those categories down and shows that nearly 7 percent of students reported being targets of physical sexual misconduct. Department of Education officials say the point is not so much to define, but to inform.
JONES: I think that all along that spectrum, we need to be paying attention to what's happening.
TODD: A former school superintendent says, whether combining all the complaints distorts the survey or not, the solution is clear.
PAUL HOUSTON, AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS: You've got to screen and make sure that you do a good job of hiring people. And then you have got to have solid policies in place so that it's very clear about what's expected and not expected.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: And some other important perspective here. We also spoke to Professor Robert Shoop of Kansas State University. He is an expert cited in this study. He says the figure of nearly one in 10 children targeted by sexual misconduct is likely to be very low because so many of those cases go unreported by students -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, that's shocking, indeed, Brian. Thanks very much. Good work.
A new book targeting President Bush in a very literal way. We'll look at the controversy some fear could potentially lead to violence.
And happening right now, a very dangerous space walk and a spectacular flyby of Saturn. Our Miles O'Brien standing will have all the details.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: A new novel that won't come out until later this summer is already raising some serious concerns. It includes talk about assassinating President Bush.
Our Tom Foreman has been looking into this.
It's a pretty shocking development.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's almost entirely about assassinating President Bush. And that has got the Secret Service interested and, no doubt, a good number of readers at this point. It is proving highly controversial.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: The novel, all about a plan to assassinate President Bush, is called "Checkpoint." And Knopf Publishing will release it on August 17, two weeks before the Republican Convention. The book is only 115 pages long, but in those pages, a character named Jay (ph) meets his friend Ben at a Washington hotel and furiously criticizes the president.
"He is beyond the beyond," Jay says. "What he's done with this war, the murder of the innocent and now the prisons, it's too much. It makes me so angry." Later, Jay adds, "I'm going to kill that bastard" and "He's one dead armadillo."
Knopf says the characters then go on way to review ways in which the president might be murdered, some comic, such as rolling a giant ball bearing down Pennsylvania Avenue, some in earnest. The Secret Service says it has not received an advance copy and so will not comment, but despite its controversial subject matter, some First Amendment advocates are defending its publication.
RONALD COLLINS, FIRST AMENDMENT CENTER: If political discourse is to be poignant, if it is to have that kind of prick that the founders wanted it, then timing is everything. And the timing at the time of election is the perfect time. (CROSSTALK)
FOREMAN (on camera): ... is dangerous?
COLLINS: Well, I think all speech is fraught with some measure of danger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "TAXI DRIVER")
ROBERT DE NIRO, ACTOR: You talking to me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN (voice-over): Fictional works have apparently inspired violence before. The movie "Taxi Driver," in which a deranged man plots to kill a senator, is believed to have spurred John Hinckley to shoot President Reagan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: This is exactly the sort of thing that worries the Secret Service and others who are concerned with this type of thing. All day long, the author, Nicholas Baker (ph), and his publisher have said he would give a statement to us explaining his thoughts on the matter. That's still in the works.
Apparently, the publisher says this is just political satire. But I'll guarantee you, there are many people here in Washington, who, with the war on terror and everything else, are not laughing at all.
BLITZER: Not laughing for good reason. I covered the White House for many years. I dealt with the Secret Service all the time. You can't even fool around talking about killing a president of the United States. Does Knopf, the publisher, a major publisher which has published Bill Clinton's memoirs, now, do they realize what they're doing?
FOREMAN: They seem to be taking seriously the concern that's rising around this. They keep saying this is not a primer on murder. It is meant to be political satire. At the same time, right before the convention, with everything that's going on, identifying the target, I don't think legally it can be stopped, but certainly a lot of people, morally, ethically have questions about this.
BLITZER: It's going to be an issue and a good subject for debate. Thanks very much, Tom Foreman.
Floating outside the International Space Station, two astronauts on a risky space walk happening right now. We'll have pictures and Miles O'Brien. That's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: High above the Earth, a risky space walk is getting under way.
Our space correspondent Miles O'Brien is joining us from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California.
Miles, tell us what we're seeing.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, these are live pictures from space, about 240 statute miles above us.
Let me just give you a quick orientation. This is the Soyuz rocket, which is always attached to the International Space station, which is sort of like the lifeboat. And down here, I think you can see the two astronauts -- thanks for removing the banner there -- who have been outside of the space station now for about 40 minutes.
That is Gennady Padalka and Mike Fincke. And their goal right now is to walk, or crawl, I guess, or however you want to put it, up this boom from here to there. And as they move down that boom, that will take them to the portion of the space station that needs some repair. This is the Russian segment right here.
And beyond it is the place where they need to replace that power control unit, which fuels the gyroscopes, which keep the International Space Station flying straight and true. There you see the Earth there and the limb of the Earth, as this space walk continues. No doubt, they're a little too busy to enjoy that view, but a spectacular place to do some work.
So far so good on that space walk. You'll recall on Friday they only got 14 minutes in before there was an oxygen leak on Fincke's suit. It turned out to be bad switch setting. They're OK with that.
Now, Wolf, we're at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory because we're waiting for the Cassini spacecraft to enter the orbit of Saturn after a near seven-year journey, $3 billion craft. It's going to thread the needle of Saturn's rings tonight. And we hope it will begin a fantastic scientific mission over the next fours years. We'll be watching that for you as well tonight -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Miles O'Brien, thanks very much.
That's all the time we have. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 30, 2004 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening now. Saddam Hussein and 11 of his former aides only hours away from a perp walk of historic proportions. And an appearance in an Iraqi court.
They don't know what's in store for them but we have details and we'll tell you.
Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
Saddam's shock. The ex-dictator gets the news that he's now in Iraqi custody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's going to be the trial of the century and everybody is going to watch this trial.
BLITZER: A father's mission. His son was beheaded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can understand that the Iraqi people would feel the same way about an American who killed one of their family members.
BLITZER: He just wants to bring the troops home. I'll speak with Michael Berg.
Getting out of Guantanamo? After a Supreme Court scolding, will the Bush administration move hundreds of detainees from Cuba to U.S. mainland?
Parole. He served 16 years for beating his adopted daughter to death. Now, he's left prison in a limo.
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Wednesday, June 30, 2004.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: He held absolute power and used it ruthlessly but according to a top Iraqi legal official, Saddam Hussein looked visibly shaken when told today he's in the custody of the new Iraqi government. Tomorrow he'll be in court to hear the charges against him.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: When we finally see Saddam Hussein in an Iraqi courtroom, sources say he will look a lot different than the most recent photos of him taken last December when he was captured after hiding in a hole. Among other things, the sources say he's been dramatically cleaned up. But despite the outside appearance, we will also see a very different Saddam Hussein than the one who ruled Iraq with an iron fist for decades. Mouwaffak Al-Rubaie is Iraq's new national security adviser.
MOUWAFFAK AL-RUBAIE, IRAQ NATL. SECURITY ADVISER: I believe the outside world would see Saddam in the box, shivering and frightened, demoralized and repentant and apologetic.
BLITZER: Like the other 11 Iraqi prisoners who will make brief court appearances, Saddam will be handcuffed. U.S. officials say Saddam has not provided much useful information during his months of interrogation by various representatives from the Pentagon, the CIA, and the FBI. They say he still insists he's the president of Iraq and due all the appropriate respect and courtesies.
AL-RUBAIE: Saddam is a stubborn, is a pig-headed, is highly self-indoctrinating and self-perpetuating himself.
BLITZER: In short, don't expect Saddam to say he's sorry and to apologize to the Iraqi people.
AL-RUBAIE: This is our thing. It's going to be the trial of the century and everybody is going to watch this trial and we're going to demonstrate to the outside world that we in the new Iraq is going to be an example of what is the new Iraq is all about.
BLITZER: U.S. officials say Saddam is in good physical shape. They note he has been seen three times by representatives from the International Committee for the Red Cross, most recently earlier this month. The Iraqis may now have legal custody of Saddam but he remains in U.S. hands.
DAN SENOR, FMR. COALITION SPOKESMAN: They have asked us to help with the security of Saddam Hussein which is why we will maintain the physical custody. The last thing they want is Saddam Hussein being killed or being freed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: In Baghdad, it seems no one is neutral on the fate of Saddam Hussein. Our senior international correspondent Brent Sadler reports from the Iraqi capital.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRENT SADLER, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's being forced to take the first step on a long road to justice. No longer a prisoner of war subject instead, to Iraq's own penal code. Justice has been seen to be done in Iraqi homes once starved of uncensored news. Their former president faces a possible death penalty for 35 years of merciless rule. This is the old Saddam bestowing rewards on loyal acolytes, a far cry from his latest appearance where he wanted to ask questions, a request denied. His upcoming trial months away has set off passionate debate here.
Ibrahim Saad (ph), a shopkeeper, claims Saddam killed his sons and let his family starve. Ibrahim rages, "he left us with nothing but our underwear. May he be cursed in this world and the next."
But with the anonymity of radio, Iraqi opinion may not be so clear cut. A popular radio station here took a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) poll of listeners during a one-hour phone-in. It concluded that while over 45 percent supported the death sentence for Saddam a stunning 41 percent thought he should be released.
The legal fate of 11 of Saddam Hussein's top officials was also transferred to Iraqi control, although they'll all remain locked up in an American-run jail.
Tariq Aziz, one of the best known faces of the old regime was also transferred to Iraqi custody along with Ali Hassan Al-Majid known as Chemical Ali for his alleged role in using chemical weapons said to be visibly shaking.
The deposed leadership is expected to face charges of crimes against humanity including genocide. "Saddam deserves a slow death, slower than slow," says Ahmed Shinjur (ph), a restaurateur, "in the way he made innocent people suffer."
Iraqis demonstrating freedom of expression after liberation from Saddam Hussein and his handover to the new Iraqi government. Brent Sadler, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: As we mentioned, Saddam Hussein and his henchmen will be brought before a judge tomorrow and charged with a long list of crimes. CNN's Anderson Cooper once again in Baghdad, joining us now live. Anderson, let's look ahead. We heard Brent say it's still months away from any trial. Give us a little look ahead.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Well, we heard that yesterday from Prime Minister Iyad Allawi who warned the Iraqi people, look, you have to be patient. This is going to take many months, indeed. There will be many, many charges. Saddam Hussein's trial is not likely to be the first one. The idea being to build a case through other people through his lower-level people, build a case ultimately against the dictator and it should be probably as early, maybe perhaps as January of 2005. That would probably be the earliest there would be of some sort of trial beginning, but it may not be even be until well into 2005 -- Wolf.
BLITZER: So the notion that those trials could begin before the U.S. presidential election November 2, it looks like that theory is going away. Is that right, Anderson? COOPER: It would seem highly unlikely. I mean, there's so much still to be worked out. At the very least, security. I mean, you know, as you well know the U.S. is going to maintain physical custody of Saddam Hussein and the others simply because the Iraqi security forces are not up to the job at this point. There's months of training ahead and months of reequipping and that is just one aspect of this. They are still building cases. They are still looking to the charges. Tomorrow when Saddam Hussein appears in court, the formal charges are not going to be read against him. That is going to come months from now as they build this case.
BLITZER: Anderson Cooper reporting for us from Baghdad as he has now for the past several days. Anderson, thank you very much.
This important note to our viewers. Anderson will, of course, be anchoring his program live from Baghdad tonight. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" begins at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 Pacific. A little bit less than two hours from now live from Baghdad.
Mortar fire rained down on a U.S. base today near the Baghdad International Airport. According to military sources, insurgents launched up to ten mortar rounds at a logistics base wounding 11 soldiers. The salvo started a fire which burned for an hour. The base is operated by a unit of the New Mexico National Guard.
U.S. embassy in Baghdad was officially opened today. Ambassador John Negroponte presided over the flag-raising ceremony. The flag had been lowered when diplomatic ties were severed at the time of the 1991 Gulf War. The Baghdad mission will now become the largest U.S. embassy in the world.
Missing in Iraq. Updates on the fates of U.S. Marine Corporal Wassef Hassoun and also Army Specialist Matt Maupin. Plus this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the victim and the victim's family it doesn't matter. Dead is dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A father speaks out on the beheading of his son and the war in Iraq. My interview with Michael Berg. That's coming up next.
Detainee dilemma. Why some suspected terrorists held at the U.S. Naval Base in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba could be moved to prisons right here in the United States.
Sexual misconduct at school. A disturbing number of children targeted in and around their classrooms. Why your child could be next. A follow-up to that story we brought you yesterday. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There's still no word at this hour on the fate of U.S. Marine Corporal Wassef Hassoun. An Iraq insurgent group that's claimed responsibility for kidnapping Hassoun is threatening to kill him unless Iraqi prisoners are released. Hassoun disappeared more than a week ago. After initial suspicions Hassoun may have deserted, the Pentagon now lists him as captured.
U.S. Army Specialist Matt Maupin has been missing in Iraq since an April attack on a convoy near Baghdad. Although Arab television showed what were said to be pictures of Maupin's execution the Pentagon says it's not convinced the man on the tape actually was him. Brigadier General Mike Beasley says he wants to assure Maupin's family the search is continuing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. MIKE BEASLEY, U.S. ARMY: And we just came out today to reassure you that, one, there is no bad information. There is no negative information with respect to Specialist Maupin that is known now. We're also continuing full efforts in attempting to locate him and return him safely to his family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: When the American civilian Nicholas Berg was beheaded by Iraqi insurgents last month, the murder outraged all of America, indeed, much of the world. Berg's father Michael is a critic of the Iraq war and since his son's death he has been traveling to try to advocate peace. He was in London when I spoke with him earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Michael Berg, thanks very much for joining us. Our deepest condolences to you and to your family. No family of course should endure what your family has gone through. Unfortunately though, other families are going through a similar ordeal right now. What goes through your mind?
MICHAEL BERG, NICHOLAS BERG'S FATHER: Well, first of all, my deepest sympathies for those families. And for those families that have someone that is detained now, I would like to tell them that they need to keep hoping that their loved one will be returned to them. I think that every one of these situations is different and I'm hoping with them for the return of their loved ones.
BLITZER: What would you like to say to the family of the Marine who's currently being held, we assume, somewhere in Iraq. The Marine Wassef Ali Hassoun.
BERG: Well, I certainly hope for the safe release of him. I certainly advise you to keep your hope up, to keep in touch with the people who are giving you information about him. And I certainly hope that he returns home safely to you.
BLITZER: We know your son was Jewish, obviously, and we know that the South Korean translator was a Christian. Paul Johnson was a Christian. Wassef Ali Hassoun a Muslim. Do you feel the fact that your son was Jewish had anything to do with his murder? BERG: Well, especially the way -- the way you put that it doesn't seem that it would have mattered. I have no way of knowing that. Nothing that I saw that al Qaeda said mentioned the fact that he was Jewish. I'm not even sure that they knew it. I think they knew that he had Israel on his passport, stamped on his passport because he had flown through Israel, but I don't know whether they knew he was Jewish or not.
BLITZER: I see you're wearing a T-shirt that says, "Bring the troops home." I know you've been very active. You're in London right now. What are you doing there?
BERG: I'm in London to speak at a rally tonight at Parliament Square. The message is that the transfer of power, the supposed transfer of power is bogus, that the Iraqi people have given no mandate to the people who are receiving this power, that the Iraqi people have given no mandate to the ex-CIA prime minister that has been given power by the Bush administration, that the military will remain, that even the puppet government that is set up by the Bush administration will have no power over the military, no power over legislation that involves their own security or their own finances.
I've looked up the word sovereignty in the dictionary and I guess this is another redefinition like torture was for George Bush because I didn't find any elements that I just described in the definition of sovereignty.
BLITZER: By almost all accounts that I've read, Mr. Berg, you and your son Nick had very different political views. He supported the Bush administration and the effort to remove Saddam Hussein from power and go to war, didn't he?
BERG: Yes, he did.
BLITZER: Do you feel he would be, excuse me, angry right now to see what you're doing, given his political views?
BERG: No. I know he wouldn't. Every time that I went to a political rally, an anti-war rally, when I'd come home he'd say, "Dad, you know, I disagree with you but I respect you for going out and standing up for what you think is right." When Nick told me he was going to Iraq, I told him the same thing that I disagreed with him about the validity of this war and that I worried for his safety, but that I respected and admired him for being a man of actions who did what he believed, who stood up for what he believed in.
BLITZER: You know there have been all sorts of wild conspiracy theories that have been out there on the Internet, especially, making all sorts of allegations against your son Nick. Do you believe any of those?
BERG: No.
BLITZER: You knew, obviously, Nick better than anyone. Why did he go to Iraq? BERG: Nick went to Iraq for the same reason that he had gone to Africa for three times in his life from the time he was 20 years old on. And that reason was that Nick had great abilities, great skills in the area of electronics and radio tower communication and in many areas, most of them scientific, but he also had a tremendous heart and a tremendous ability to connect his skills with the social need that he saw wherever he -- wherever he was. That's what he was doing there.
People have written to me and said, oh, your son was just greedy and he just went over there to make money. My son didn't make any money over there. He didn't make any money in Africa any of the times he went there. He lost a bundle of money every time he left this country. I can tell you that because I was his business manager as well as his father. Money is not what motivated my son. If you can see where he lived and how simply and plainly he lived, you would know that that's the truth.
BLITZER: If there are other Nick Bergs watching this interview right now out there in the United States who want to go over to Iraq and try to help the Iraqi people as your son Nick tried to do, what do you say to them?
BERG: I would say that you have to be sensitive to the desires of the Iraqi people. The Iraqi people don't want us there. The Iraqi people don't want American civilians there and they don't want American military there and I can understand that.
I can understand that having Americans in Iraq would be the same as my having the five men who killed my son living across the street from me and going to work every morning and, you know going out to get the newspaper and seeing them going off to their work of killing people. And I can imagine how that would make me feel. And I think that's probably the way Iraqi people who have lost someone feel.
Over 11,000 Iraqis have died. And they have affected thousands of people each one of them. I doubt that there is a person in Iraq who hasn't lost someone at -- either because of American bombs or because of the American destabilization of Iraq, which has allowed these terrorists to come in. There weren't any al Qaeda in Iraq before we got there. That's been proven by an American commission.
BLITZER: But, Mr. Berg, I want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding what you're saying. You're not equating the U.S. military and their role in Iraq right now to those terrorists who beheaded your son, are you?
BERG: I'm saying that I can understand that the Iraqi people would feel the same way about an American who killed one of their family members, as I feel about the al Qaeda.
BLITZER: All right. But you're not saying that there is an equivalency here.
BERG: I'm not saying there is an equivalency. I'm saying that to the victim and to the victim's family it doesn't matter. Dead is dead.
BLITZER: Once again, Michael Berg, our deepest condolences to you and to your family. I know this has been an awful, awful ordeal. Our hearts go out to you. Thanks very much for joining us.
BERG: Thank you.
BLITZER: I spoke with Bush administration officials after the interview. They, of course, strongly disagree with Michael Berg's view on the war, although they continue to express their deepest sympathies to him and to his family. This note: tomorrow we will get a very different perspective from Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter. He's the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee and has just returned today from Iraq.
A human catastrophe unfolding in Africa: widespread raping, looting and burning of large areas. Colin Powell is there right now. We'll have a live report from Sudan.
Outrage in New York as a famous child killer Joel Steinberg is set free after serving only 17 years.
Risky mission: high above Earth, two astronauts make a second attempt at a space walk this hour. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: After 17 years, almost 17 years after a crime that shocked America, convicted child killer Joel Steinberg is now out of prison. A former lawyer, Steinberg was released on parole today after serving part of his manslaughter sentence for the beating death of his 6-year-old adopted daughter. CNN's Jason Carroll has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Joel Steinberg left an upstate New York prison in a white limousine. He left without commenting on a case that changed the way that people think about child abuse. It was a case that began with a 911 call.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was congested and seemed to have stopped breathing.
CARROLL: It came on November 2, 1987, from Hedda Nussbaum. Her adopted daughter Lisa wasn't breathing. Nussbaum said Lisa had choked on food. Police found her naked and filthy. They also found her 16- month-old adopted brother tied to a playpen tied with twine. He was returned to his biological family.
Later, doctors discovered old bruises on Lisa's body. They also noticed obvious signs of abuse on Nussbaum. Three days after arriving at the hospital, Lisa died. Police charged Nussbaum and her live-in lover Joel Steinberg with murder.
JOEL STEINBERG, CONVICTED OF MANSLAUGHTER: I do not hit, strike or use any form of forceful discipline of any sort. CARROLL: Steinberg denied claims he beat Lisa, because she stared at him. What is undisputed is Steinberg and Nussbaum had illegally adopted Lisa at birth. Her teachers saw bruises over time, neighbors heard screams from their West Village brown stone, but no one investigated. Years later, Nussbaum explained how Steinberg controlled her.
HEDDA NUSSBAUM, JOEL STEINBERG'S FRM. GIRLFRIEND: I was really brainwashed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is deserving of the maximum sentence...
CARROLL: A deadlocked jury reached a compromise verdict, manslaughter instead of murder. After Lisa's death, New York State required anyone licensed to deal with children to take a course in recognizing abuse. Lisa's middle class background also changed stereotypes of victims of child abuse.
DR. KATHERINE GRIMM, CHILDREN'S ADVOCACY GROUP: People who are poor and minorities are assumed to be the major group of perpetrators, child abuse crosses also socioeconomic lines and all ethnic lines.
CARROLL: Steinberg served the required two-thirds of a maximum 25-year sentence, not enough for one former juror.
JEREMIAH COLE, FORMER JUROR: I think justice would only be served if Joel Steinberg spent the rest of his life, in some way, trying to atone for what he did.
CARROLL: In a chaotic scene, Steinberg returned to New York City. According to his conditional release, he has to stay away from his former adopted son and Hedda Nussbaum.
(on camera): She avoided prosecution by testifying against him. Because of his release, she has gone into hiding.
Jason Carroll, CNN, Pine City, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: New York governor George Pataki called Steinberg's early release an outrage. Pataki released a statement, let me quote from it, "The sweeping criminal justice reforms we've enacted in recent years, including our ban on parole for all violent felons, are now helping to ensure that dangerous criminals like Joel Steinberg stay behind bars for as long as possible.
"In fact," Pataki goes on to say, "if our reforms had been in place at the time he was sentenced, Steinberg would have been kept behind bars for years to come."
A controversial new novel on a taboo subject threatening the president of the United States: Is it freedom of speech or a license to inspire violence? We'll take a look at that.
Plus, the U.S. Supreme Court says they have access to American courts. Now, detainees at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba could be on the move.
Peace mission: Secretary of State Colin Powell gets a first-hand look at the humanitarian crisis in Sudan, we'll go there.
And divulging his royal duties and more. Prince Charles issues his first self-report. Details just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Dealing with the detainees held in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. Will some of them be moved to the United States? There are developments. We'll take a look at what's to come.
First, though, a quick check of some other headlines.
For the first time in four years, a key short-term interest rate is going up. The Federal Reserve today hiked the federal funds rate 0.25 percent to 1.25 percent. And that means banks will most likely fall in line, hiking their prime lending rate for many short-term consumer and business loans.
An ongoing shoot-out in Saudi Arabia's capital has left a Saudi police officer and a handful of militants dead. Officials in the kingdom say they believe the militants are linked to al Qaeda. Sources say the man believed to be the terror group's top ideologue in Saudi Arabia was one of those killed.
Accused al Qaeda operative Jose Padilla has met with his attorneys for the first time since the Supreme Court ruled on his case. The attorneys met with Padilla at Naval brig in Charleston, South Carolina, where he's being held. Padilla is a U.S. citizen. He's classified as an enemy combatant. He was arrested two years ago. The court ruled Monday so-called enemy combatants have a right to challenge the evidence behind their detention in a legal hearing.
The Bush administration is seeking to come up with a plan for dealing with hundreds of anticipated lawsuits now that the U.S. Supreme Court says Guantanamo Bay detainees have the right to fight their detention legally.
Our national correspondent Bob Franken has more on this story, some of the problems, some of the possible solutions -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, for all who are involved right now, Wolf, it's back to the drawing board.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice-over): Government officials acknowledge they were just not expecting the Supreme Court to create this new reality. Now the Pentagon, Justice Department and other agencies are scrambling, forced to deal with the here and now what.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: They're discussing these issues as we speak and they've already been under discussion since the court ruling on Monday, I believe it was. And we'll have more to say soon.
FRANKEN: But now the government no longer has all the say. The Supreme Court has ruled the detainees must have a hearing and lawyers.
BARBARA OLSHANSKY, CENTER FOR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS: What we need to do is move quickly in the court to get to see our clients and to be able to, you know, move their case forward.
FRANKEN: They never have. Their clients had been separated from any outside contact at Guantanamo Bay.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I would characterize Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, as the least worst place we could have selected.
FRANKEN: That was back when the Bush administration decided Guantanamo was out of reach of the U.S. courts. Among the many ideas being batted around now is moving the detainees by the hundreds, perhaps, off of Guantanamo Bay to a military prison or prisons in the United States.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I'm not in a position to say what the range of potentials is, but that we are making that assessment.
FRANKEN: No longer will the next move be entirely up to the government.
MICHAEL NOONE, MILITARY LAW EXPERT: They will be subject to judicial review of individual decisions as to why a person is being detained in Guantanamo or at some third place.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN: And for starters, someone will have to devise a procedure for letting the detainees know that they have new legal rights, rights that could theoretically influence how long they are detainees -- Wolf.
BLITZER: From the federal government's perspective, what is the advantage of moving them from Guantanamo Bay to the continental United States?
FRANKEN: Well, it would be just a matter of perhaps, somebody suggested putting them in a conservative area where the judges might be more sympathetic to them, but some of the defense lawyers say, that doesn't really matter, that legal rights are legal rights.
BLITZER: All right, Bob Franken, reporting for us, thanks very much.
Secretary of State Colin Powell is in Sudan for a first-hand look at what some call the world's worst humanitarian crisis unfolding right now.
CNN's Jeff Koinange is live in the Sudanese capital of Khartoum. He's joining us on the phone.
Set the scene for us, Jeff. What's going on?
JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, a monumental day in Darfur, where Secretary of State Colin Powell was actually on the ground in strife-torn areas, where up to 30,000 people have been killed in the last several months, up to a million displaced.
Colin Powell speaking to humanitarian workers, to the few peacekeepers on the ground, to villages, to displaced refugees, assuring them that help is at hand. He is here to flex some muscle, Wolf. And I had an exclusive interview with him. I pressed the issue. I said, what is going on in the region? He told me: I come away from this trip with an understanding that we have a humanitarian catastrophe in Darfur.
I press pressed him further, saying, why is no U.S. official mentioning the word genocide? Because aide officials say that's what's happening in Darfur. He said: Let's not put labels on these terms. We know what the situation is. We know what we have to do and we know how much muscle we have to flex.
Wolf, that's the extent he could go. He would not mention the G- word, genocide that all aide workers are referring to. And Western analysts are all saying genocide is taking place, but the U.S. would not call it genocide. They said it's a catastrophe that has to be taken care of and the Sudanese government has to now put up or shut up -- Wolf.
BLITZER: CNN's Jeff Koinange in Khartoum in Sudan for us -- thanks very much, Jeff.
The situation in Sudan is poised to become a full-fledged human catastrophe. It already is getting very close. It's already unlike anything seen in Africa since the genocide in Rwanda a decade ago.
CNN's Zain Verjee is at the CNN Center. She has got more now on this crisis and how it came about -- Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the war in Darfur is about political power and money. It's a war that has no foreseeable end.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE (voice-over): Are we witnesses to genocide in slow motion?
Images trickling from a poor region in western Sudan piece together the disaster that is Darfur, refugees fleeing bloodshed, bombed or burned-out villages. Recent satellite pictures show the destruction in Darfur. The black circles here indicate burned villages. Almost 400 villages are said to be damaged or destroyed.
In neighboring Chad, about 200,000 terrorized survivors tell of massacre and mass rape, burning and butchering by Arab militias called janjaweed, targeting them because they are black. International rights groups say there is evidence atrocities have been committed by the Arab militias backed by the Sudanese government, a charge the government denies.
It's estimated up to 30,000 people have been killed in more than a year of war. What's the war about? Old-fashioned reasons, money and power. Two rebel groups in Darfur are demanding political rights and a share of oil wealth. The government's response:
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drive the communities who might support the rebellion out of their homes, out of their villages and out of their homes in order to drain the water to catch the fish.
VERJEE: Experts say there are indications the killing is systematic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have a scale now that certainly meets that which we usually require for genocide findings.
VERJEE: Journalists have been barred from entering much of the region, the size of France or Texas. One photojournalist was able to enter Darfur. His pictures show a ghost town, punctuated only by fresh graves and rubble.
More than a million refugees, like these, are internally displaced, huddled in government-controlled camps in Darfur. Aid agencies say one million could die, not by the bullet, but by other weapons of war.
What you are going to have is death by starvation, death by thirst, death by disease.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: Wolf, experts say the United Nations need to take actions. It can do a couple of things, they say, one publicly condemn the Sudanese government for the disaster in Darfur, and, two, consider targeted sanctions and armed intervention against Sudan.
BLITZER: Zain, what are you hearing? Will the Sudanese government act under pressure?
VERJEE: Well, policy experts that I've spoken to say the Sudanese government has really perfected the art of doing just the bare minimum to act when they're under pressure, just enough to cause the pressure to subside.
So, in this instance, with the U.S. secretary of state there, with the U.N. secretary-general there, it really remains to be seen how Khartoum and whether it will change the horrific reality on the ground -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And it is horrific, indeed. CNN's Zain Verjee reporting for us -- thanks, Zain, very much.
Political humor or freedom of speech gone too far? Find out why a new novel is raising some serious concerns here in Washington. That's ahead.
Plus, do you know what your children are really learning in school? A shocking new study out today.
And later, flying rings around Saturn, a view that's truly out of this world. That's coming up.
First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Three thousand mourners attended the funeral for Kim Sun-il, the South Korean hostage beheaded in Iraq. Korean investigators have started a probe into Kim's abduction and the unsuccessful effort to win his release.
Moving the barrier. Israel's Supreme Court has ordered the government to amend its plans for a barrier intended to protect Israel from Palestinian suicide bombers. The court says a 20-mile stretch of the barrier must be rerouted so it won't separate Palestinian villagers from their farms.
Last-minute rush. Cuban-Americans lined up for flights to visit family members one more time before tough new U.S. restrictions go into effect. Many were turned away. The new restrictions allow visits to Cuba once only every three years.
Royal report. After promising to provide more information about his activities and finances, Prince Charles has issued his first corporate-style annual report. The prince says his official duties include supporting the queen and raising funds for charity. And his expenses include paying a small office staff to assist his companion, Camilla Parker Bowles.
And that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Yesterday, we reported the shocking story of a middle school teacher in the Tampa, Florida, area, 23-year-old Debra Lafave, who is accused of having sex with a 14-year-old student. Those of you watching the program yesterday will, of course, remember.
Today, a follow-up, the broader issue of sexual misconduct between public school employees and students, it's making headlines once again.
CNN's Brian Todd is here with a truly alarming story -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, an important distinction here.
In that Lafave case, the student in question was, according to police reports, receptive to Debra Lafave's alleged advances. But officials at the Department of Education say many teenage kids and certainly younger students are not equipped to make any kind of decision on sex, whether they're receptive to it or not. And today, the department puts out some alarming new numbers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): During any given school day, your child's well being could be in the hands of several adults, teachers, principals, bus drivers, volunteers. According to a new study, a surprising number of children are subject to unwanted sexual conduct on the part of those same adults.
BRIAN JONES, DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION: The initial reaction is one of surprise and one of great concern.
TODD: The study commissioned by the Department of Education, but conducted by a professor at Hofstra University shows that nearly one in 10 public school children in the U.S., more than 4.5 million, reported being targets of sexual misconduct some time between kindergarten and 12th grade. But an important perspective.
The study defines sexual misconduct as unwanted penetration or the touching of breasts or genitals, widely characterized as abuse, but also includes sexually related jokes, conversations, questions directed at students and the showing of pictures of a sexual nature. Critics say putting all those behaviors under one category of sexual misconduct is a distortion and creates undue alarm.
MICHAEL PONS, NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION: It lumps together incidents where a person might make a comment that made someone uncomfortable together with cases of actual sexual abuse. And it sends an unreal picture about what's actually happening in the public schools.
TODD: But the author, Charol Shakeshaft, tells CNN the study does break those categories down and shows that nearly 7 percent of students reported being targets of physical sexual misconduct. Department of Education officials say the point is not so much to define, but to inform.
JONES: I think that all along that spectrum, we need to be paying attention to what's happening.
TODD: A former school superintendent says, whether combining all the complaints distorts the survey or not, the solution is clear.
PAUL HOUSTON, AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS: You've got to screen and make sure that you do a good job of hiring people. And then you have got to have solid policies in place so that it's very clear about what's expected and not expected.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: And some other important perspective here. We also spoke to Professor Robert Shoop of Kansas State University. He is an expert cited in this study. He says the figure of nearly one in 10 children targeted by sexual misconduct is likely to be very low because so many of those cases go unreported by students -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, that's shocking, indeed, Brian. Thanks very much. Good work.
A new book targeting President Bush in a very literal way. We'll look at the controversy some fear could potentially lead to violence.
And happening right now, a very dangerous space walk and a spectacular flyby of Saturn. Our Miles O'Brien standing will have all the details.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: A new novel that won't come out until later this summer is already raising some serious concerns. It includes talk about assassinating President Bush.
Our Tom Foreman has been looking into this.
It's a pretty shocking development.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's almost entirely about assassinating President Bush. And that has got the Secret Service interested and, no doubt, a good number of readers at this point. It is proving highly controversial.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: The novel, all about a plan to assassinate President Bush, is called "Checkpoint." And Knopf Publishing will release it on August 17, two weeks before the Republican Convention. The book is only 115 pages long, but in those pages, a character named Jay (ph) meets his friend Ben at a Washington hotel and furiously criticizes the president.
"He is beyond the beyond," Jay says. "What he's done with this war, the murder of the innocent and now the prisons, it's too much. It makes me so angry." Later, Jay adds, "I'm going to kill that bastard" and "He's one dead armadillo."
Knopf says the characters then go on way to review ways in which the president might be murdered, some comic, such as rolling a giant ball bearing down Pennsylvania Avenue, some in earnest. The Secret Service says it has not received an advance copy and so will not comment, but despite its controversial subject matter, some First Amendment advocates are defending its publication.
RONALD COLLINS, FIRST AMENDMENT CENTER: If political discourse is to be poignant, if it is to have that kind of prick that the founders wanted it, then timing is everything. And the timing at the time of election is the perfect time. (CROSSTALK)
FOREMAN (on camera): ... is dangerous?
COLLINS: Well, I think all speech is fraught with some measure of danger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "TAXI DRIVER")
ROBERT DE NIRO, ACTOR: You talking to me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN (voice-over): Fictional works have apparently inspired violence before. The movie "Taxi Driver," in which a deranged man plots to kill a senator, is believed to have spurred John Hinckley to shoot President Reagan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: This is exactly the sort of thing that worries the Secret Service and others who are concerned with this type of thing. All day long, the author, Nicholas Baker (ph), and his publisher have said he would give a statement to us explaining his thoughts on the matter. That's still in the works.
Apparently, the publisher says this is just political satire. But I'll guarantee you, there are many people here in Washington, who, with the war on terror and everything else, are not laughing at all.
BLITZER: Not laughing for good reason. I covered the White House for many years. I dealt with the Secret Service all the time. You can't even fool around talking about killing a president of the United States. Does Knopf, the publisher, a major publisher which has published Bill Clinton's memoirs, now, do they realize what they're doing?
FOREMAN: They seem to be taking seriously the concern that's rising around this. They keep saying this is not a primer on murder. It is meant to be political satire. At the same time, right before the convention, with everything that's going on, identifying the target, I don't think legally it can be stopped, but certainly a lot of people, morally, ethically have questions about this.
BLITZER: It's going to be an issue and a good subject for debate. Thanks very much, Tom Foreman.
Floating outside the International Space Station, two astronauts on a risky space walk happening right now. We'll have pictures and Miles O'Brien. That's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: High above the Earth, a risky space walk is getting under way.
Our space correspondent Miles O'Brien is joining us from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California.
Miles, tell us what we're seeing.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, these are live pictures from space, about 240 statute miles above us.
Let me just give you a quick orientation. This is the Soyuz rocket, which is always attached to the International Space station, which is sort of like the lifeboat. And down here, I think you can see the two astronauts -- thanks for removing the banner there -- who have been outside of the space station now for about 40 minutes.
That is Gennady Padalka and Mike Fincke. And their goal right now is to walk, or crawl, I guess, or however you want to put it, up this boom from here to there. And as they move down that boom, that will take them to the portion of the space station that needs some repair. This is the Russian segment right here.
And beyond it is the place where they need to replace that power control unit, which fuels the gyroscopes, which keep the International Space Station flying straight and true. There you see the Earth there and the limb of the Earth, as this space walk continues. No doubt, they're a little too busy to enjoy that view, but a spectacular place to do some work.
So far so good on that space walk. You'll recall on Friday they only got 14 minutes in before there was an oxygen leak on Fincke's suit. It turned out to be bad switch setting. They're OK with that.
Now, Wolf, we're at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory because we're waiting for the Cassini spacecraft to enter the orbit of Saturn after a near seven-year journey, $3 billion craft. It's going to thread the needle of Saturn's rings tonight. And we hope it will begin a fantastic scientific mission over the next fours years. We'll be watching that for you as well tonight -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Miles O'Brien, thanks very much.
That's all the time we have. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
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