Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Live At Daybreak
Saddam Makes His First Court Appearance
Aired July 01, 2004 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Today a man used to being in charge and living in elegant palaces enters a courtroom in cuffs as a defendant.
It is Thursday, July 1.
This is DAYBREAK.
And good morning to you.
From the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Costello.
Here are the latest headlines for you now.
History in the making this morning. Saddam Hussein due for his first court appearance. It could happen very soon. The deposed leader and 11 top members of his regime will be arraigned before an Iraqi judge. We will take you live to Baghdad for the latest in just about a minute and a half.
Big cheers at NASA for another historic event. The international Cassini probe is now the first spacecraft ever to orbit Saturn. It happened just a few hours ago. The Cassini should give scientists a tour of the giant planet for the next four years.
In money news this morning, interest rates are up. The Fed's raised a key rate a quarter percentage point in an effort to keep the economy and inflation stable. It is the first rate hike in four years.
In culture, New Jersey has unveiled the winning design for its planned 9/11 memorial. It commemorates the more than 600 New Jersey residents killed in the attacks. The memorial, called Empty Sky, will be erected in Liberty State Park. That's just across the Hudson River from Manhattan.
In sports, Serena Williams advanced to another Wimbledon semifinals with a dominating win over Jennifer Capriati. Get this -- the straight set victory lasted less than 45 minutes -- Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's how long I could last, Carol.
COSTELLO: I'd last five minutes, I think.
MYERS: Only if I was stalling when I was serving. Man, those guys are really doing well today. She had a 126 mile an hour serve. I mean how do you even see that? I don't even know.
Anyway, hey, good morning.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: From powerful dictator to powerless prisoner, we are awaiting Saddam Hussein's first court appearance and his first public appearance since his capture. It could happen at any time now.
Let's go live to Baghdad and Anderson Cooper to find out what's happening right now -- hello, Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
Saddam Hussein taking his first steps on the road to justice. The mother of all perp walks, some people are calling it here. He will be led in cuffs, handcuffed and chained to his waist, by Iraqi security services into a courtroom. The handcuffs will be removed and he will face a judge for the first time since he has been captured. We will also get a glimpse of him for the first time since those pictures of him being poked and prodded by U.S. medical authorities as they examined him after being found in that spider hole.
We are told he has lost weight, some 11 to 12 pounds. We are told he is clean shaven except for a mustache. He will be wearing civilian clothes. Eleven other members of Saddam's former regime will also face a judge today. They will all be told their rights. They will be told in general the charges against them, although specific charges will not be read out until several months from now. And as for an actual court date, that will not -- the actual trial will likely not begin until some time early next year.
After today, physical custody remains with U.S. troops. Saddam Hussein will remain in the custody of coalition forces. The fear is that if he is handed over not just legally, but physically, to the Iraqis, that they cannot guarantee his security, they cannot guarantee that he would be there for a trial. So he will remain with the United States in custody until then -- Carol.
COSTELLO: OK, I'm going to ask you some questions that you probably don't know the answer to. But I just want to know what you've heard about Saddam's mental state. I've heard at times he's arrogant, at times he's scared.
What have you heard?
COOPER: Yes, there are a lot of different reports going around. Some said that early on he was talking in -- to interrogators, then he sort of clammed up, I guess the idea being that perhaps he started to hold out hope that he might -- that the political tides here might change, the insurgency might actually do well, he might some day get free again. We simply don't know, though, exactly what his mental state is.
Salim Chalabi, the executive director of the Iraqi special tribunal, who saw him yesterday, described him as nervous, that he came into the room, he said good morning, he sat down in a chair. He was told the proceedings against him. He really had no idea what was going on. He asked if he could ask some questions. Salim Chalabi told him that no, he could not ask questions. I'm not sure he -- but I imagine he did not like that answer. He was told that he could ask questions later today, once he actually does appear in court. But he was described as nervous and having lost weight, though in general in good health -- Carol.
COSTELLO: I know, I don't know, you couldn't help but chuckle. One of the prosecutors say you can bet when he gets into the hearing today, Saddam won't be saying I'm sorry.
COOPER: Yes, it's going to be -- I mean it's just going to be remarkable to see Saddam Hussein facing a court, facing justice, something which was denied to people for so long here under his regime -- you know, no lawyers, no legal rights here that people had. What a turn of events it is and a lot of Iraqis are going to be watching today with memories and it's going to bring up a lot of memories, a lot of feelings, I think, for a lot of Iraqis.
COSTELLO: All right, we'll get back to you.
Anderson Cooper live in Baghdad this morning.
Thank you.
We want to get an idea of exactly what to expect at today's arraignment and the upcoming trial.
And for that, we turn to Georgetown University law professor Barry Carter.
He joins us live from Washington.
Good morning.
BARRY CARTER, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: Good morning.
COSTELLO: Well, tell us what we can expect when Saddam Hussein enters that makeshift courtroom.
CARTER: Well, he's going to face a tribunal investigative judge and that judge, it's not exactly clear whether he'll read any charges at all, but at some point the judge is going to have to have a list of charges against him and eventually confirm an indictment against him.
But today, the exact terms are all new. This is a whole new court, a special tribunal set up by the Governing Council and the Paul Bremer. It continues today and it's -- this is going to be its first time in action.
COSTELLO: Well, you know, one of Saddam's many lawyers said that this whole process is illegal and maybe has kind of a point, because the whole process isn't really even mapped out yet, is it?
CARTER: Well, yes, it is mapped out. It's just going into operation today. I think it's clearly legal. The U.S. government, as the occupying authority, had the right to set up rules and regulations and Paul Bremer did that with a complicated, some 20 page long statute, for the special tribunal. And that was to continue into the interim government. And it continues to today and today it goes into action.
COSTELLO: So when the real trial gets under way, what, months or maybe even a year from now, Saddam Hussein will have a right to legal counsel.
Do you think that he'll hire a lawyer? Does he have money stashed away somewhere to pay for it? Or do you think he will represent himself?
CARTER: Well, he -- my understanding is that the family has already retained a lawyer who has been representing him or preparing to represent him. And I assume the tribunal will try to get him to have a lawyer or a continuous lawyer, just to make sure the trial looks fair. But he does have a right, like any defendant, to dismiss his lawyer and to proceed himself.
Milosevic has done that in the tribunal in -- against...
COSTELLO: In the Hague.
CARTER: In the Hague, dealing with Yugoslavia, and is making it a show trial or a publicity event. But I hope that Saddam doesn't do this. I think it's important that this be an objective, fair trial in which he's represented by counsel.
COSTELLO: You know, the other thing I was wondering, witnesses. Are -- some people in Iraq probably still fear Saddam.
Will there be plenty of witnesses to testify against him?
CARTER: Well, that's a good question. It's unclear how good the security will be in Iraq in six months or eight months when they try him, and it will be dangerous for people to be witnesses if the insurgency still continues.
Indeed, it's going to be difficult for judges and prosecutors. They haven't all been selected yet and it's not clear who's going to be willing to be a judge and prosecutor in this new fragile institution.
COSTELLO: Professor Carter, Barry Carter from Georgetown University, thank you for joining DAYBREAK this morning.
CARTER: Thank you.
COSTELLO: The U.S. has upped the ante on terror suspect Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. The bounty for his capture and conviction has been raised to $25 million. That is the same amount that was offered for Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. Zarqawi is blamed for dozens of attacks on coalition forces in Iraq, as well as the execution of American civilian Nicholas Berg. Secretary of State Colin Powell and U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan both got a firsthand look at the growing humanitarian crisis in Sudan. They toured refugee camps were thousands of Sudanese people are struggling to survive. The country has been wracked by civil war. Human rights organizations say government backed militias are guilty of ethnic cleansing.
In an exclusive interview, CNN's Jeff Koinange asked Mr. Powell about what many are calling his reluctance to call the crisis a genocide.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: Even though there are some indicators of genocide, by the definitions that are used for such a determination, it doesn't really meet the test yet. But what difference does it make? What will that do for us by worrying about a particular label? It's a horrific situation and we shouldn't spend all of our time trying to determine what label to put on it. We know what it is. We can see it. Let's work on the problem and not get tied up in legalistic discussions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: A United Nations draft resolution is calling on the Sudanese government to take immediate, critical action in Darfur.
Still to come on DAYBREAK, a plot to take out the commander-in- chief -- does the Secret Service need to be concerned about a plan, a plot to assassinate the president that's outlined in the pages of a novel? We're going to talk more about that.
Time Warner may be ready to pay billions of dollars for the land of Oz and James Bond, too.
And then a seven year mission results in a milestone at midnight. I'll talk to one of the men who made it happen.
This is DAYBREAK for July 1.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Your news, money, weather and sports.
It is 6:13 Eastern.
Here's what's all new this morning.
Saddam Hussein will be in court today to be charged with crimes against humanity. The former dictator and 11 of his associates will make their first appearance in public since their captures.
In Hong Kong, nearly 100,000 people marched through the city to voice their demands for democracy. Today is the seventh anniversary of Hong Kong's hand over from British to Chinese control. In money news, a new threat for people who do their banking online. An as yet unnamed bug similar to Spy Ware captures a user's keystrokes. The Net attack is launched through pop up ads.
In culture, Howard Stern is fighting back. The shock jock announced the addition of nine more radio stations to his syndication lineup, and they do include stations in four markets where he had previously been pulled off the air by Clear Channel.
In sports, volatile NASCAR driver Tony Stewart was fined $50,000 and docked 25 driver points for an altercation after last Sunday's race. Stewart grabbed and hit driver Brian Vickers while he was still in his car.
Did you find out any more about this -- Chad.
MYERS: Yes. The irony is here Stewart made $107,000 for finishing that race, like 14th place. He's fined $50,000. So he's still $57,000 to the good. Take all his money away! Give this guy a lesson.
COSTELLO: Well, why did he punch the guy in the car?
MYERS: When is Home Depot going to figure this out? I mean how long are they going to hang with this guy? I don't understand it.
COSTELLO: I want to know why he punched the guy in the car, Chad.
MYERS: Because the guy laughed at him. Because Tony thought Brian Vickers caused the wreck, but, in fact, Tony ran into the back of him.
OK, let's get a cop out there, I guess, to figure it out.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: Those are the latest headlines for you this morning.
Time for a little business buzz now.
James Bond, Dorothy and the Pink Panther -- those are just a few characters Time Warner wants to buy.
Carrie Lee has more live from the NASDAQ market site -- hmmm, interesting.
CARRIE LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is interesting, Carol. Time Warner, of course, CNN's parent company, according to published reports, is ready to bid nearly $5 billion for MGM, the Hollywood studio known as well for the things that you just mentioned. Now, the Time Warner bid is the latest twist in the long running auction of MGM.
Back in April, a group led by Sony Corporation made a $5 billion bid. But they weren't able to close the deal quickly, so now Time Warner, our parent, is reportedly making an offer.
Now, this deal, worth about $4.7 billion, actually; so a little less than the Sony deal. But, of course, companies would like MGM because of its prized library of films. They've recently turned profitable after losses about five years ago.
So we'll see what happens here, Carol. As I said, right now this according to published reports.
COSTELLO: A look at the futures?
LEE: Things are looking pretty positive this morning. I would say a moderately higher open is fair. Of course, we have the Federal Reserve yesterday raising rates by one quarter of a percentage point, as expected, keeping that measured language the same, saying we could see measured rate hikes down the road. Of course, Alan Greenspan and Company, though, said that they would be willing to move more aggressively if higher prices become a problem.
You know, yesterday we were losing a little bit of ground in the mid-session, right before this news came out, and then we actually ended the day in the plus column, the Dow higher by 22 points; the NASDAQ up 12. And it looks like we could see some follow through into today, at least so far.
COSTELLO: I hope so.
Carrie Lee live from the NASDAQ market site.
Thank you.
More coverage of the arraignment of Saddam Hussein and 11 others from his regime. In the eyes of Iraqis, will today's proceedings mean progress?
And a plot to kill the president? Is it just a work of fiction? And how powerful are the pages of a new book? We'll tell you, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Bush bashing continues unabated. A new novel tells the story of a man who wants to kill the president.
As CNN's Tom Forman reports, the story is bound to raise some eyebrows.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FORMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The novel about friends discussing how they would assassinate President Bush is called "Checkpoint" and the Knopf Publishing Company will release it on August 17, two weeks before the Republican convention. The book is only 115 pages long, but in those pages a character named Jay meets his friend Ben at a Washington hotel and furiously criticizes the president. "He is beyond the beyond," Jay says. "What he's done with this war, the murder of the innocent and now the prisons, it's too much. It makes me so angry."
Later, Jay adds, "I am going to kill that bastard," and "he's one dead armadillo."
Canough says the characters then go on to review ways in which the president might be murdered, some comic, such as rolling a giant ball bearing down Pennsylvania Avenue, some in earnest. The Secret Service says it has not received an advanced copy and so will not comment. But despite its controversial subject matter, some first amendment advocates are defending its publication.
RONALD COLLINS, FIRST AMENDMENT CENTER: If political discourse is to be poignant, if it is to have that kind of prick that the founders wanted it, then timing is everything, and the timing at the time of an election is the perfect time to...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't think this is dangerous?
COLLINS: Well, I think all speech is fraught with some measure of danger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP "TAXI DRIVER," COURTESY COLUMBIA TRISTAR PICTURES)
ROBERT DE NIRO, ACTOR: Are you talking to me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FORMAN: Fictional works have apparently inspired violence before. The movie "Taxi Driver," in which a deranged man plots to kill a senator, is believed to have spurred John Hinckley to shoot President Reagan.
(on camera): The publisher says this book is not a call to arms, that it is political satire and nothing more. But here in the nation's capital, where war and terrorism are daily concerns, clearly some are not amused.
Tom Forman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
COSTELLO: And we've been telling you it would happen all morning long. Saddam Hussein is in a Baghdad courtroom for his hearing this morning.
Let's head live to Baghdad now to see what more we can learn from Anderson Cooper -- go for it, Anderson.
COOPER: Carol, we have just received word that Saddam Hussein is in the courtroom building. He was brought there just a short time ago, walked in front of cameras into that courtroom building. Now, we do not have any pictures at this point to show you. There is a camera both taking pictures of him as he walked into the building and there will be a camera inside the courtroom. But those pictures will not be available any time soon.
What we are -- what we can tell you is this, that Saddam Hussein is in the courtroom building, that he was brought there just a short time ago by U.S. authorities then handed over to Iraqi authorities. Saddam Hussein was said -- was supposed to be handcuffed, chained to his waist, brought in.
Now, when he actually does appear in front of the judge -- and we do not yet know if he has appeared in front of the judge -- he will be told his rights. He will be told he has the right to legal counsel. He will be told that if he cannot afford counsel, counsel will be provided to him. But at this point, we do not know if the actual court proceeding has begun. We do know that Saddam Hussein is in the court building -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Anderson, can you tell us a little bit about how he was transferred into that courtroom? He was in a prison cell, is that -- put on your microphone. I understand breaking news is a, I don't know, sometimes it makes you a little off kilter. So we'll let Anderson get his microphone on. But I know you can hear me, so I just wondered what the process is.
I know he's going to be brought into the courtroom in handcuffs.
Tell us about the security around Saddam Hussein.
COOPER: Carol, security has been very tight, extremely tight. There is an embargo on a lot of the information until he is out of the courtroom. That's why we're being very careful about what we are telling you. He was brought by four M.P.s, also, by four Humvees, a convoy of Humvees, from the location where he has been detained since December, when he was first apprehended. He was brought into the court building, we are the told, the early reports say, by two Iraqi -- members of the two Iraqi security services. Two Iraqis actually brought him into the court building.
As we said, he was supposed to be handcuffed. That was the advanced word that we had been given. But those handcuffs would be removed once he was actually facing the judge.
Now, we understand that Saddam Hussein is the first one into the courtroom building. He will first appear before the judge. Then, after he leaves, the 11 other members of his former regime will have their time in court. Each one will be told of their rights, be told that they can have a guardian appointed to them if they cannot afford it. Of course, those rights are not something that any Iraqis were ever afforded under the reign of Saddam Hussein -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Yes, and we're all curious as to what we'll get to see, you know, the world will get to see. Will we get to see pictures of Saddam actually in the courtroom? Will we get to hear whatever he may say in there? COOPER: We don't know at this point. We previously had believed that there would be audio recordings as well as video inside the courtroom. That now seems to be in question. We're waiting to see. We are told when he was brought, there were four Humvees. I'm just getting the word right now. He was brought in an armored bus. Saddam Hussein was actually transported to the facility in an armored bus. As well, there was an escort of four Humvees.
As we said, security has been very tight, very tight all over Baghdad today. I saw some helicopters going over the city just a short time ago. I'm not sure if it was related to this. But there is -- there are serious concerns, of course, about security, as there always are here, but especially on this day. The U.S. military maintaining physical custody of Saddam Hussein no matter what.
The legal custody was transferred to the Iraqi government yesterday. Salim Chalabi, the director, the executive director of the Iraqi special tribunal actually met with Saddam Hussein, as well as the presiding judge; met with Saddam Hussein. Saddam Hussein entered the room, sat down, apparently said, "good morning," did not know what was going on. Salim Chalabi explained to him what was going to be happening today. Saddam Hussein asked if he could ask some questions. Salim Chalabi said no, this was not the time to ask questions, that he would be allowed to ask questions today, Thursday, in front of this judge.
And as we know now, Saddam Hussein is in the court building. Those court proceedings likely to get under way very time soon. Shouldn't last too long, we're told, and then, of course, Saddam Hussein will be escorted out again. He will again be videotaped as he is leaving the building and then brought to another facility. Then those 11 other members of his former regime will be brought in, as well.
Another little detail just from yesterday, other members of the 11 numbered who were brought in who met with Salim Chalabi and the presiding judge yesterday to be told that they were no longer prisoners of war, that they were now under the Iraqi justice system. A variety of reactions. A number of them appeared to seem -- appeared nervous. One, a man who had been Saddam Hussein's bodyguard and assistant, said, "I've done nothing wrong."
The man known as "Chemical Ali" said -- apparently seems rather arrogant. He had a cane. He came in. He asked Salim Chalabi why there wasn't a chair provided for him. Salim Chalabi said that they would only be a few minutes, that no chair was necessary. He explained what was going on. According to Salim Chalabi, as "Chemical Ali" left the room, he was visibly shaking. His cane was apparently visibly shaking. Quite a surprise, apparently, for "Chemical Ali" -- Carol.
COSTELLO: You know, perhaps the person most recognizable to Americans, Tariq Aziz, the deputy prime minister. We just heard from an expert earlier this morning that he may turn against Saddam Hussein and testify him. I'm sure that's what prosecutors are hoping.
COOPER: Yes, that's right, Carol.
And, excuse me, Carol. We're getting just little bits of details, drips and drabs is coming in. So I'm just trying to bring them to you as soon as we get them.
There were apparently eight corrections officers bringing Saddam Hussein in. Two Iraqi security service officers actually brought him into the courtroom building. So it was a convoy of, as we said, four Humvees, this armored bus. I'm being told also there was an ambulance in the convoy, apparently just in case, though there's no indication that it was needed at any point.
Saddam Hussein, according to Salim Chalabi, has had regular medical checkups, appears in good health, although Salim Chalabi said that he has lost some weight, estimated to be 11 to 12 pounds. But he is clean shaven. He was wearing a mustache. The advanced word we got was that he was going to be dressed in civilian clothes, though I don't have confirmation of that just yet. And we are trying to find out if the actual court proceeding has begun yet. All we know at this point is that Saddam Hussein is in the courtroom building -- Carol.
COSTELLO: I was just curious, are regular every day Iraqis, are they aware where this is taking place?
COOPER: Well, we are aware it's taking place. I don't think most Iraqis are aware of, A, where Saddam Hussein has been kept, though we do know that information, and where this is taking place. We cannot tell you for security reasons where it is taking place at this point. We will be able to tell you a little bit later today, once it all is said and done. We have some details of the actual facility. It's quite interesting, some details, as a matter of fact.
But most Iraqis are aware this is happening. As we said, legal custody was handed over yesterday to the new Iraqi government. So it's had that 24 hour cycle to get into the newspapers here. In a lot of Iraqi papers today, this is, of course, front page news. This is the first time Iraqis will have the chance to see this man who has terrorized so many of them for so long, since December, when he was first apprehended by coalition forces. And, of course, those now legendary pictures of Saddam Hussein bearded, bedraggled, disheveled, being poked and prodded, examined by U.S. medical personnel.
A far different looking Saddam Hussein, we are told, will appear today. What he actually says in court will be of great interest, as well, to people. There has been some concern all along that he will try to make this sort of a show trial, that he will try to, you know, make a stand, make grandiose pronouncements.
The Iraqis we have talked to have said very clearly they are going to try to avoid that from happening, though Saddam Hussein, under new Iraqi law, would have the right to represent himself if he chose not to have legal representation. But, of course, that all remains to be seen. Any actual trial, the actual charges still months and months away. A lot of work to be done before then. Today, it's a preliminary hearing. He is told his rights. He is allowed to ask some questions. It should not be a very long proceeding, as well. And as soon as it is over, we will get those pictures and we will bring them to you -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Absolutely.
We're going to wrap it up because we're -- we've hit the half hour mark, Anderson.
We'll get back to you shortly.
Anderson Cooper live in Baghdad.
We're going to take a short break.
We'll be back with more on DAYBREAK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired July 1, 2004 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Today a man used to being in charge and living in elegant palaces enters a courtroom in cuffs as a defendant.
It is Thursday, July 1.
This is DAYBREAK.
And good morning to you.
From the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Costello.
Here are the latest headlines for you now.
History in the making this morning. Saddam Hussein due for his first court appearance. It could happen very soon. The deposed leader and 11 top members of his regime will be arraigned before an Iraqi judge. We will take you live to Baghdad for the latest in just about a minute and a half.
Big cheers at NASA for another historic event. The international Cassini probe is now the first spacecraft ever to orbit Saturn. It happened just a few hours ago. The Cassini should give scientists a tour of the giant planet for the next four years.
In money news this morning, interest rates are up. The Fed's raised a key rate a quarter percentage point in an effort to keep the economy and inflation stable. It is the first rate hike in four years.
In culture, New Jersey has unveiled the winning design for its planned 9/11 memorial. It commemorates the more than 600 New Jersey residents killed in the attacks. The memorial, called Empty Sky, will be erected in Liberty State Park. That's just across the Hudson River from Manhattan.
In sports, Serena Williams advanced to another Wimbledon semifinals with a dominating win over Jennifer Capriati. Get this -- the straight set victory lasted less than 45 minutes -- Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's how long I could last, Carol.
COSTELLO: I'd last five minutes, I think.
MYERS: Only if I was stalling when I was serving. Man, those guys are really doing well today. She had a 126 mile an hour serve. I mean how do you even see that? I don't even know.
Anyway, hey, good morning.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: From powerful dictator to powerless prisoner, we are awaiting Saddam Hussein's first court appearance and his first public appearance since his capture. It could happen at any time now.
Let's go live to Baghdad and Anderson Cooper to find out what's happening right now -- hello, Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
Saddam Hussein taking his first steps on the road to justice. The mother of all perp walks, some people are calling it here. He will be led in cuffs, handcuffed and chained to his waist, by Iraqi security services into a courtroom. The handcuffs will be removed and he will face a judge for the first time since he has been captured. We will also get a glimpse of him for the first time since those pictures of him being poked and prodded by U.S. medical authorities as they examined him after being found in that spider hole.
We are told he has lost weight, some 11 to 12 pounds. We are told he is clean shaven except for a mustache. He will be wearing civilian clothes. Eleven other members of Saddam's former regime will also face a judge today. They will all be told their rights. They will be told in general the charges against them, although specific charges will not be read out until several months from now. And as for an actual court date, that will not -- the actual trial will likely not begin until some time early next year.
After today, physical custody remains with U.S. troops. Saddam Hussein will remain in the custody of coalition forces. The fear is that if he is handed over not just legally, but physically, to the Iraqis, that they cannot guarantee his security, they cannot guarantee that he would be there for a trial. So he will remain with the United States in custody until then -- Carol.
COSTELLO: OK, I'm going to ask you some questions that you probably don't know the answer to. But I just want to know what you've heard about Saddam's mental state. I've heard at times he's arrogant, at times he's scared.
What have you heard?
COOPER: Yes, there are a lot of different reports going around. Some said that early on he was talking in -- to interrogators, then he sort of clammed up, I guess the idea being that perhaps he started to hold out hope that he might -- that the political tides here might change, the insurgency might actually do well, he might some day get free again. We simply don't know, though, exactly what his mental state is.
Salim Chalabi, the executive director of the Iraqi special tribunal, who saw him yesterday, described him as nervous, that he came into the room, he said good morning, he sat down in a chair. He was told the proceedings against him. He really had no idea what was going on. He asked if he could ask some questions. Salim Chalabi told him that no, he could not ask questions. I'm not sure he -- but I imagine he did not like that answer. He was told that he could ask questions later today, once he actually does appear in court. But he was described as nervous and having lost weight, though in general in good health -- Carol.
COSTELLO: I know, I don't know, you couldn't help but chuckle. One of the prosecutors say you can bet when he gets into the hearing today, Saddam won't be saying I'm sorry.
COOPER: Yes, it's going to be -- I mean it's just going to be remarkable to see Saddam Hussein facing a court, facing justice, something which was denied to people for so long here under his regime -- you know, no lawyers, no legal rights here that people had. What a turn of events it is and a lot of Iraqis are going to be watching today with memories and it's going to bring up a lot of memories, a lot of feelings, I think, for a lot of Iraqis.
COSTELLO: All right, we'll get back to you.
Anderson Cooper live in Baghdad this morning.
Thank you.
We want to get an idea of exactly what to expect at today's arraignment and the upcoming trial.
And for that, we turn to Georgetown University law professor Barry Carter.
He joins us live from Washington.
Good morning.
BARRY CARTER, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: Good morning.
COSTELLO: Well, tell us what we can expect when Saddam Hussein enters that makeshift courtroom.
CARTER: Well, he's going to face a tribunal investigative judge and that judge, it's not exactly clear whether he'll read any charges at all, but at some point the judge is going to have to have a list of charges against him and eventually confirm an indictment against him.
But today, the exact terms are all new. This is a whole new court, a special tribunal set up by the Governing Council and the Paul Bremer. It continues today and it's -- this is going to be its first time in action.
COSTELLO: Well, you know, one of Saddam's many lawyers said that this whole process is illegal and maybe has kind of a point, because the whole process isn't really even mapped out yet, is it?
CARTER: Well, yes, it is mapped out. It's just going into operation today. I think it's clearly legal. The U.S. government, as the occupying authority, had the right to set up rules and regulations and Paul Bremer did that with a complicated, some 20 page long statute, for the special tribunal. And that was to continue into the interim government. And it continues to today and today it goes into action.
COSTELLO: So when the real trial gets under way, what, months or maybe even a year from now, Saddam Hussein will have a right to legal counsel.
Do you think that he'll hire a lawyer? Does he have money stashed away somewhere to pay for it? Or do you think he will represent himself?
CARTER: Well, he -- my understanding is that the family has already retained a lawyer who has been representing him or preparing to represent him. And I assume the tribunal will try to get him to have a lawyer or a continuous lawyer, just to make sure the trial looks fair. But he does have a right, like any defendant, to dismiss his lawyer and to proceed himself.
Milosevic has done that in the tribunal in -- against...
COSTELLO: In the Hague.
CARTER: In the Hague, dealing with Yugoslavia, and is making it a show trial or a publicity event. But I hope that Saddam doesn't do this. I think it's important that this be an objective, fair trial in which he's represented by counsel.
COSTELLO: You know, the other thing I was wondering, witnesses. Are -- some people in Iraq probably still fear Saddam.
Will there be plenty of witnesses to testify against him?
CARTER: Well, that's a good question. It's unclear how good the security will be in Iraq in six months or eight months when they try him, and it will be dangerous for people to be witnesses if the insurgency still continues.
Indeed, it's going to be difficult for judges and prosecutors. They haven't all been selected yet and it's not clear who's going to be willing to be a judge and prosecutor in this new fragile institution.
COSTELLO: Professor Carter, Barry Carter from Georgetown University, thank you for joining DAYBREAK this morning.
CARTER: Thank you.
COSTELLO: The U.S. has upped the ante on terror suspect Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. The bounty for his capture and conviction has been raised to $25 million. That is the same amount that was offered for Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. Zarqawi is blamed for dozens of attacks on coalition forces in Iraq, as well as the execution of American civilian Nicholas Berg. Secretary of State Colin Powell and U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan both got a firsthand look at the growing humanitarian crisis in Sudan. They toured refugee camps were thousands of Sudanese people are struggling to survive. The country has been wracked by civil war. Human rights organizations say government backed militias are guilty of ethnic cleansing.
In an exclusive interview, CNN's Jeff Koinange asked Mr. Powell about what many are calling his reluctance to call the crisis a genocide.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: Even though there are some indicators of genocide, by the definitions that are used for such a determination, it doesn't really meet the test yet. But what difference does it make? What will that do for us by worrying about a particular label? It's a horrific situation and we shouldn't spend all of our time trying to determine what label to put on it. We know what it is. We can see it. Let's work on the problem and not get tied up in legalistic discussions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: A United Nations draft resolution is calling on the Sudanese government to take immediate, critical action in Darfur.
Still to come on DAYBREAK, a plot to take out the commander-in- chief -- does the Secret Service need to be concerned about a plan, a plot to assassinate the president that's outlined in the pages of a novel? We're going to talk more about that.
Time Warner may be ready to pay billions of dollars for the land of Oz and James Bond, too.
And then a seven year mission results in a milestone at midnight. I'll talk to one of the men who made it happen.
This is DAYBREAK for July 1.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Your news, money, weather and sports.
It is 6:13 Eastern.
Here's what's all new this morning.
Saddam Hussein will be in court today to be charged with crimes against humanity. The former dictator and 11 of his associates will make their first appearance in public since their captures.
In Hong Kong, nearly 100,000 people marched through the city to voice their demands for democracy. Today is the seventh anniversary of Hong Kong's hand over from British to Chinese control. In money news, a new threat for people who do their banking online. An as yet unnamed bug similar to Spy Ware captures a user's keystrokes. The Net attack is launched through pop up ads.
In culture, Howard Stern is fighting back. The shock jock announced the addition of nine more radio stations to his syndication lineup, and they do include stations in four markets where he had previously been pulled off the air by Clear Channel.
In sports, volatile NASCAR driver Tony Stewart was fined $50,000 and docked 25 driver points for an altercation after last Sunday's race. Stewart grabbed and hit driver Brian Vickers while he was still in his car.
Did you find out any more about this -- Chad.
MYERS: Yes. The irony is here Stewart made $107,000 for finishing that race, like 14th place. He's fined $50,000. So he's still $57,000 to the good. Take all his money away! Give this guy a lesson.
COSTELLO: Well, why did he punch the guy in the car?
MYERS: When is Home Depot going to figure this out? I mean how long are they going to hang with this guy? I don't understand it.
COSTELLO: I want to know why he punched the guy in the car, Chad.
MYERS: Because the guy laughed at him. Because Tony thought Brian Vickers caused the wreck, but, in fact, Tony ran into the back of him.
OK, let's get a cop out there, I guess, to figure it out.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: Those are the latest headlines for you this morning.
Time for a little business buzz now.
James Bond, Dorothy and the Pink Panther -- those are just a few characters Time Warner wants to buy.
Carrie Lee has more live from the NASDAQ market site -- hmmm, interesting.
CARRIE LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is interesting, Carol. Time Warner, of course, CNN's parent company, according to published reports, is ready to bid nearly $5 billion for MGM, the Hollywood studio known as well for the things that you just mentioned. Now, the Time Warner bid is the latest twist in the long running auction of MGM.
Back in April, a group led by Sony Corporation made a $5 billion bid. But they weren't able to close the deal quickly, so now Time Warner, our parent, is reportedly making an offer.
Now, this deal, worth about $4.7 billion, actually; so a little less than the Sony deal. But, of course, companies would like MGM because of its prized library of films. They've recently turned profitable after losses about five years ago.
So we'll see what happens here, Carol. As I said, right now this according to published reports.
COSTELLO: A look at the futures?
LEE: Things are looking pretty positive this morning. I would say a moderately higher open is fair. Of course, we have the Federal Reserve yesterday raising rates by one quarter of a percentage point, as expected, keeping that measured language the same, saying we could see measured rate hikes down the road. Of course, Alan Greenspan and Company, though, said that they would be willing to move more aggressively if higher prices become a problem.
You know, yesterday we were losing a little bit of ground in the mid-session, right before this news came out, and then we actually ended the day in the plus column, the Dow higher by 22 points; the NASDAQ up 12. And it looks like we could see some follow through into today, at least so far.
COSTELLO: I hope so.
Carrie Lee live from the NASDAQ market site.
Thank you.
More coverage of the arraignment of Saddam Hussein and 11 others from his regime. In the eyes of Iraqis, will today's proceedings mean progress?
And a plot to kill the president? Is it just a work of fiction? And how powerful are the pages of a new book? We'll tell you, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Bush bashing continues unabated. A new novel tells the story of a man who wants to kill the president.
As CNN's Tom Forman reports, the story is bound to raise some eyebrows.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FORMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The novel about friends discussing how they would assassinate President Bush is called "Checkpoint" and the Knopf Publishing Company will release it on August 17, two weeks before the Republican convention. The book is only 115 pages long, but in those pages a character named Jay meets his friend Ben at a Washington hotel and furiously criticizes the president. "He is beyond the beyond," Jay says. "What he's done with this war, the murder of the innocent and now the prisons, it's too much. It makes me so angry."
Later, Jay adds, "I am going to kill that bastard," and "he's one dead armadillo."
Canough says the characters then go on to review ways in which the president might be murdered, some comic, such as rolling a giant ball bearing down Pennsylvania Avenue, some in earnest. The Secret Service says it has not received an advanced copy and so will not comment. But despite its controversial subject matter, some first amendment advocates are defending its publication.
RONALD COLLINS, FIRST AMENDMENT CENTER: If political discourse is to be poignant, if it is to have that kind of prick that the founders wanted it, then timing is everything, and the timing at the time of an election is the perfect time to...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't think this is dangerous?
COLLINS: Well, I think all speech is fraught with some measure of danger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP "TAXI DRIVER," COURTESY COLUMBIA TRISTAR PICTURES)
ROBERT DE NIRO, ACTOR: Are you talking to me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FORMAN: Fictional works have apparently inspired violence before. The movie "Taxi Driver," in which a deranged man plots to kill a senator, is believed to have spurred John Hinckley to shoot President Reagan.
(on camera): The publisher says this book is not a call to arms, that it is political satire and nothing more. But here in the nation's capital, where war and terrorism are daily concerns, clearly some are not amused.
Tom Forman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
COSTELLO: And we've been telling you it would happen all morning long. Saddam Hussein is in a Baghdad courtroom for his hearing this morning.
Let's head live to Baghdad now to see what more we can learn from Anderson Cooper -- go for it, Anderson.
COOPER: Carol, we have just received word that Saddam Hussein is in the courtroom building. He was brought there just a short time ago, walked in front of cameras into that courtroom building. Now, we do not have any pictures at this point to show you. There is a camera both taking pictures of him as he walked into the building and there will be a camera inside the courtroom. But those pictures will not be available any time soon.
What we are -- what we can tell you is this, that Saddam Hussein is in the courtroom building, that he was brought there just a short time ago by U.S. authorities then handed over to Iraqi authorities. Saddam Hussein was said -- was supposed to be handcuffed, chained to his waist, brought in.
Now, when he actually does appear in front of the judge -- and we do not yet know if he has appeared in front of the judge -- he will be told his rights. He will be told he has the right to legal counsel. He will be told that if he cannot afford counsel, counsel will be provided to him. But at this point, we do not know if the actual court proceeding has begun. We do know that Saddam Hussein is in the court building -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Anderson, can you tell us a little bit about how he was transferred into that courtroom? He was in a prison cell, is that -- put on your microphone. I understand breaking news is a, I don't know, sometimes it makes you a little off kilter. So we'll let Anderson get his microphone on. But I know you can hear me, so I just wondered what the process is.
I know he's going to be brought into the courtroom in handcuffs.
Tell us about the security around Saddam Hussein.
COOPER: Carol, security has been very tight, extremely tight. There is an embargo on a lot of the information until he is out of the courtroom. That's why we're being very careful about what we are telling you. He was brought by four M.P.s, also, by four Humvees, a convoy of Humvees, from the location where he has been detained since December, when he was first apprehended. He was brought into the court building, we are the told, the early reports say, by two Iraqi -- members of the two Iraqi security services. Two Iraqis actually brought him into the court building.
As we said, he was supposed to be handcuffed. That was the advanced word that we had been given. But those handcuffs would be removed once he was actually facing the judge.
Now, we understand that Saddam Hussein is the first one into the courtroom building. He will first appear before the judge. Then, after he leaves, the 11 other members of his former regime will have their time in court. Each one will be told of their rights, be told that they can have a guardian appointed to them if they cannot afford it. Of course, those rights are not something that any Iraqis were ever afforded under the reign of Saddam Hussein -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Yes, and we're all curious as to what we'll get to see, you know, the world will get to see. Will we get to see pictures of Saddam actually in the courtroom? Will we get to hear whatever he may say in there? COOPER: We don't know at this point. We previously had believed that there would be audio recordings as well as video inside the courtroom. That now seems to be in question. We're waiting to see. We are told when he was brought, there were four Humvees. I'm just getting the word right now. He was brought in an armored bus. Saddam Hussein was actually transported to the facility in an armored bus. As well, there was an escort of four Humvees.
As we said, security has been very tight, very tight all over Baghdad today. I saw some helicopters going over the city just a short time ago. I'm not sure if it was related to this. But there is -- there are serious concerns, of course, about security, as there always are here, but especially on this day. The U.S. military maintaining physical custody of Saddam Hussein no matter what.
The legal custody was transferred to the Iraqi government yesterday. Salim Chalabi, the director, the executive director of the Iraqi special tribunal actually met with Saddam Hussein, as well as the presiding judge; met with Saddam Hussein. Saddam Hussein entered the room, sat down, apparently said, "good morning," did not know what was going on. Salim Chalabi explained to him what was going to be happening today. Saddam Hussein asked if he could ask some questions. Salim Chalabi said no, this was not the time to ask questions, that he would be allowed to ask questions today, Thursday, in front of this judge.
And as we know now, Saddam Hussein is in the court building. Those court proceedings likely to get under way very time soon. Shouldn't last too long, we're told, and then, of course, Saddam Hussein will be escorted out again. He will again be videotaped as he is leaving the building and then brought to another facility. Then those 11 other members of his former regime will be brought in, as well.
Another little detail just from yesterday, other members of the 11 numbered who were brought in who met with Salim Chalabi and the presiding judge yesterday to be told that they were no longer prisoners of war, that they were now under the Iraqi justice system. A variety of reactions. A number of them appeared to seem -- appeared nervous. One, a man who had been Saddam Hussein's bodyguard and assistant, said, "I've done nothing wrong."
The man known as "Chemical Ali" said -- apparently seems rather arrogant. He had a cane. He came in. He asked Salim Chalabi why there wasn't a chair provided for him. Salim Chalabi said that they would only be a few minutes, that no chair was necessary. He explained what was going on. According to Salim Chalabi, as "Chemical Ali" left the room, he was visibly shaking. His cane was apparently visibly shaking. Quite a surprise, apparently, for "Chemical Ali" -- Carol.
COSTELLO: You know, perhaps the person most recognizable to Americans, Tariq Aziz, the deputy prime minister. We just heard from an expert earlier this morning that he may turn against Saddam Hussein and testify him. I'm sure that's what prosecutors are hoping.
COOPER: Yes, that's right, Carol.
And, excuse me, Carol. We're getting just little bits of details, drips and drabs is coming in. So I'm just trying to bring them to you as soon as we get them.
There were apparently eight corrections officers bringing Saddam Hussein in. Two Iraqi security service officers actually brought him into the courtroom building. So it was a convoy of, as we said, four Humvees, this armored bus. I'm being told also there was an ambulance in the convoy, apparently just in case, though there's no indication that it was needed at any point.
Saddam Hussein, according to Salim Chalabi, has had regular medical checkups, appears in good health, although Salim Chalabi said that he has lost some weight, estimated to be 11 to 12 pounds. But he is clean shaven. He was wearing a mustache. The advanced word we got was that he was going to be dressed in civilian clothes, though I don't have confirmation of that just yet. And we are trying to find out if the actual court proceeding has begun yet. All we know at this point is that Saddam Hussein is in the courtroom building -- Carol.
COSTELLO: I was just curious, are regular every day Iraqis, are they aware where this is taking place?
COOPER: Well, we are aware it's taking place. I don't think most Iraqis are aware of, A, where Saddam Hussein has been kept, though we do know that information, and where this is taking place. We cannot tell you for security reasons where it is taking place at this point. We will be able to tell you a little bit later today, once it all is said and done. We have some details of the actual facility. It's quite interesting, some details, as a matter of fact.
But most Iraqis are aware this is happening. As we said, legal custody was handed over yesterday to the new Iraqi government. So it's had that 24 hour cycle to get into the newspapers here. In a lot of Iraqi papers today, this is, of course, front page news. This is the first time Iraqis will have the chance to see this man who has terrorized so many of them for so long, since December, when he was first apprehended by coalition forces. And, of course, those now legendary pictures of Saddam Hussein bearded, bedraggled, disheveled, being poked and prodded, examined by U.S. medical personnel.
A far different looking Saddam Hussein, we are told, will appear today. What he actually says in court will be of great interest, as well, to people. There has been some concern all along that he will try to make this sort of a show trial, that he will try to, you know, make a stand, make grandiose pronouncements.
The Iraqis we have talked to have said very clearly they are going to try to avoid that from happening, though Saddam Hussein, under new Iraqi law, would have the right to represent himself if he chose not to have legal representation. But, of course, that all remains to be seen. Any actual trial, the actual charges still months and months away. A lot of work to be done before then. Today, it's a preliminary hearing. He is told his rights. He is allowed to ask some questions. It should not be a very long proceeding, as well. And as soon as it is over, we will get those pictures and we will bring them to you -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Absolutely.
We're going to wrap it up because we're -- we've hit the half hour mark, Anderson.
We'll get back to you shortly.
Anderson Cooper live in Baghdad.
We're going to take a short break.
We'll be back with more on DAYBREAK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
