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CNN Live At Daybreak

Former Iraqi Dictator Saddam Hussein Appears in Iraqi Court; Saturn in Sight

Aired July 01, 2004 - 06:33   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning again. This is DAYBREAK.
For those of you who are just joining us, it has finally happened. Saddam Hussein is in a courtroom in Iraq for his first, I would say, arraignment. He will face a judge. Maybe he will say a few things.

Let's head live to Baghdad to find our more from Anderson Cooper.

Anderson -- tell our viewers briefly what is happening right now.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Carol, this has happened just a very short time ago. The information is still coming in. We don't have any pictures at this point to show you.

What we know is this: Saddam Hussein is now in the court building at an undisclosed location. We cannot tell you exactly where, but it is in the Baghdad area.

Saddam Hussein was brought into court a short time ago in a convoy of four Humvees, an armored bus. Also in that convoy there was an ambulance just in case anything untoward happened.

Saddam Hussein was taken out of the bus by eight Iraqi corrections officers. He was then led into the courtroom building by two of those Iraqi corrections officers. Advance word had told us that Saddam Hussein was going to be handcuffed -- that was handcuffed, chained to a chain around his waist, and we've not had confirmation on whether that is, in fact, how he was brought into the court. We had been told in advance that he was going to be shaved, wearing a mustache. That he was in civilian clothes.

But he is in the courtroom at this point. That's the most we know. The court proceeding is likely to be under way momentarily, if it has not already begun -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Anderson, we'd like you to stay with us, because we have a guest joining us right now. He (sic) is Maha Azzam, an associate fellow at the Middle East Program in London -- she -- I apologize to you.

This is the first dictator to go on trial in Iraq. We were wondering what do you think is going through Saddam's mind at this moment? MAHA AZZAM, ASSOCIATE FELLOW: I think this is obviously a very difficult moment for Saddam Hussein and for his supporters. This is a moment that would have been inconceivable in the mind of Saddam Hussein. It is something that I think no one would have expected. It's well known that Tariq Aziz, the deputy prime minister, had said once to an interviewer that he would never allow himself to be captured, never allow himself to be put on trial, and that this would be considered very humiliating. I imagine for Saddam Hussein, this is a very humiliating and difficult moment.

COSTELLO: Anderson, you were telling us before something about Saddam's emotional state before this hearing. Can you tell us again?

COOPER: Yes. What we know from Salem Chalabi, who is the executive director of the Iraqi Governing Council, he met with Saddam Hussein and the 11 other members of his former regime yesterday, as well as the Supreme Court judge met with Saddam as well.

He described the meeting as this: He said Saddam Hussein came in. Now, the purpose of the meeting was to inform Saddam Hussein that he was no longer a prisoner of war protected by the Geneva Convention, that he was now under the rule of Iraqi law, and that he would face an Iraqi judge, Iraqi justice.

Saddam Hussein, according to Salem Chalabi, appeared nervous, appeared surprised, did not know what exactly was going on, wanted to ask some questions. Salem Chalabi said no, this is not the time to ask questions. You will be able to do that tomorrow before an Iraqi judge.

So, we are anticipating that Saddam Hussein will be allowed to ask some questions today now that he is in the courtroom building and the court proceedings are under way.

But, again, some are saying apparently he had lost some weight, according to Salem Chalabi again, and this information is all just coming from him, 11 to 12 pounds in weight. So, he did appear healthy, that he has had regular medical checkups.

And that is about as much as we know about the wherewithal and mental state of Saddam Hussein, and a number of the other members of his regime -- former regime seemed nervous as well -- Carol.

COSTELLO: And, Maha, in hearing what Anderson just said, that Saddam Hussein will get a chance to speak in court, what would you expect him to say knowing what you know about Saddam?

AZZAM: I think initially it's difficult to predict. I think he will wonder about the legitimacy of the court there and about how far he is going to have a fair trial. He probably believes, as some of his supporters would, that this is a kangaroo court, that this is an American conspiracy.

I think as the trial gets under way, he would be eager to implicate those that have supported him and to show that what he is being accused of are not crimes, that he was supported, for example, in the Iran-Iraq war by the United States and Saudi Arabia, that others were closely allied him, and he will try to expose that as much as possible.

COSTELLO: And, Anderson, as far as lawyers are concerned, I know his family has hired literally an army of lawyers. What have you heard about Saddam's final representation?

COOPER: Well, at this point, officially he has no representation here in Iraq. There are a number of people who have come forward claiming to be Saddam Hussein's lawyer. There is a gentleman in France, who I've interviewed several times, who says that he has been hired by a nephew of Saddam Hussein.

There is a Jordanian attorney who says that he has been hired by the family of Saddam Hussein, most notably one of Saddam's wives, as well as by the daughters. He, at this point, seems the most credible of all of them. He is based on Jordan. He has called these entire proceedings illegal. He says this is simple not correct under international law. He plans to fight it vigorously.

But exactly what standing at this point he has here is unclear. At this point, Saddam Hussein does not have a lawyer. He will be told this morning and probably is being told right now, if it's not already over, that he can have a lawyer or that he can have a lawyer appointed for him.

There's also the opportunity for him to represent himself. Obviously that is something that I think a lot of Iraqis would not like to see. They would prefer that Saddam Hussein have a lawyer, to have this be on the up and up as much as possible and not involve or devolve or degenerate into some sort of show trial, as we have often seen with Slobodan Milosevic, who is sort of using the International Court at the Hague for publicity and trying to make political points.

They want justice here in Iraq, and they're hoping that this is the first step in that process.

COSTELLO: All right, Anderson Cooper live in Baghdad. Maha Azzam live in London. Thanks to you both.

As we've been telling you all morning long, Saddam Hussein is now appearing before an Iraqi judge. We don't know exactly what's going on inside that courtroom right now, but when we do find out, of course we'll pass that information directly to you.

We're going to take a short break. This is DAYBREAK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: This is DAYBREAK. Welcome back.

A successful stroll through space for the only two men orbiting the Earth. It took nearly six hours for one American astronaut and one Russian cosmonaut to restore power to one of the station's gyroscopes. The gyroscopes keep the International Space Station from spinning out of control. It was a risky walk, because they had to use Russian-made spacesuits that were not designed for spacewalking. But, again, it was a successful mission.

Now to the even farther reaches of space, the Cassini mission to Saturn. The spacecraft has made it through the rings and is now orbiting the planet. That just happened a few hours ago.

For more on this, let's turn to NASA's director of solar system exploration, Orlando Figueroa. He's among the happy campers at the Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena, California.

You look happy.

ORLANDO FIGUEROA, NASA DIRECTOR OF SOLAR SYSTEM EXPLORATION: I need to be very, very happy. It's been an historic moment for us.

COSTELLO: Tell us how difficult this was for that thing to get into Saturn's orbit.

FIGUEROA: Well, it's an inherently high-risk operation no matter how we look at it. The spacecraft has been traveling for six and a half years, almost seven, 3.3 billion kilometers from Saturn is a long journey.

And now, as it entered the Saturnian system, it had to go through the rings, which we know are, you know, largely made of dust and, in some cases, very large particles that can affect and impact and the spacecraft and damage it.

And then entering the orbit is a very difficult operation, all conducted automatically, but everything needs to work perfectly for it to occur. So, for 90 minutes or so while we were firing the engines to get into Saturn orbit was very, very tense.

COSTELLO: I bet. I bet. I saw the cheering after it successfully entered Saturn's orbit. So, tell us what you expect to find from the pictures from the Cassini.

FIGUEROA: Well, over a period of about four years, we intend to conduct a very detailed characterization of the Saturn system, the magnetic field around it, the atmosphere in great detail, how it behaves, its composition, the rings themselves.

We want to study the moons of Saturn. Saturn has 31 moons all distinctly different. Some of them are icy moons. Some of them are, like Titan, the largest moon in the solar system, larger than Mercury and Pluto themselves, planets in the solar system, that we believe holds a lot of clues to the formation of the early days of our solar system. It's like studying a miniature solar system of information.

COSTELLO: Fascinating. It also kind of -- I mean, will we be able to get an example of what the Earth looked like, like billions and billions of years ago?

FIGUEROA: Certainly when we look at Titan, a moon that is very, very intriguing. It's got a lot of organic compounds in this atmosphere, perhaps seas of organic material. And although it's difficult for life to grow in that kind of environment, certainly the primary materials for life to evolve were present. We think that Earth may have been like that when it first started billions of years ago.

COSTELLO: Oh, that's so fascinating! Thank you so much, Orlando Figueroa, from NASA, and we saw you cheering there in Pasadena, California. And we, of course, will follow the Cassini. Thank you, Orlando.

We're going to take you back to Baghdad, because as we've been telling you all morning, Saddam Hussein is inside an Iraqi courtroom facing a judge for the first time.

Anderson Cooper live in Baghdad for us to tell us more.

Have you found out anything?

COOPER: Well, Carol, we can tell you at this point that the trial is near the Baghdad Airport. We have known this information, but we have been sort of sitting on it. The exact details of where it's taking place we can't tell you at this point.

Saddam Hussein brought into the courtroom, brought into the court building from the detention facility where he has been kept now since December when he was first apprehended. A far different Saddam Hussein, we are told, wearing a mustache but clean-shaven. He's lot weight, one estimate of 11 to 12 pounds.

Saddam Hussein brought in, escorted off an armored bus, escorted by four Humvees and a military ambulance as well, escorted by eight Iraqi corrections officers, then brought into the courtroom building by two Iraqi corrections officers.

He's appearing before a single judge. He will be told in general the charges against him: genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity.

Then after that he will be allowed to ask questions. He will be told his rights, the right to legal counsel. After that he will be taken away to another detention facility.

All of this is being videotaped. We do not have the videotape yet. No one has it at this point. It is a pool camera. All media has access to it at the exact same moment. And as soon as we get it, we will show it to you, of course.

Then after Saddam Hussein leaves the courtroom, the 11 other members of his former regime, including Tariq Aziz, including Chemical Ali and a host of others, will be brought forward. Similar proceedings for each of them, the first step in a long road to justice here in Iraq -- Carol.

COSTELLO: And each proceeding won't take very long, because -- well, who knows how long they'll speak. How long will they be allowed to speak? Do you think there will be a time limit on how long they speak, each of these people? COOPER: Yes, Carol, we simply don't know. We had been told in advance they wanted to keep these short, 5 to 10 minutes each. Whether or not that will happen we simply don't know. It's impossible to tell. Nor do we know if the court -- if the actual hearing has already taken -- got under way. The most we can say is Saddam Hussein has entered the court building. There are several rooms in that building. So, as soon as we find out what was said in the courtroom and whether or not a trial is even -- the hearing is under way we'll let you know.

COSTELLO: You know, all along, we've been wondering how public these hearings would be. Is it so tightly controlled that we won't be able to get pictures from inside the courtroom? Or will they eventually be released to the Iraqi public for television?

COOPER: Yes. No, they definitely will be. What we know is this: We will have pictures of Saddam Hussein being brought into the courtroom, the "perp walk" as we call it in the United States. We will also have pictures of Saddam Hussein inside the courtroom, appearing before the judge.

The question that at this point is unanswered, it's a little unclear, we've gone sort of back and forth on it, some differing reports, as to whether or not there will be audio of what is taking place inside the courtroom. We had understood that there would be. Then late today we heard that perhaps there would not be.

Again, that is yet to be determined. We simply don't know.

We will also have video of Saddam Hussein leaving the court building, being escorted by those Iraqi corrections officers back onto the bus and taken away. Where he is being taken away, we cannot say at this point, nor will we have any pictures beyond that -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Yes, we're trying to get David Clinch over here, our senior international editor, to talk more about the process, because it's been very difficult for our international desk to sort of sort this all out.

I want to talk about the Iraqi people and what they may think about all of this. Many of them still fear Saddam Hussein. What will they think when they see him in handcuffs appearing before a judge?

COOPER: I don't know what they're going to think. I can tell you a lot of people are going to be watching. I mean, there is so much curiosity about this, so much trepidation about this. There are those, you know, you talk to on the street, who say, look, this man should be hung. He shouldn't even be tried.

Some radio callers in this morning to a radio program here in Baghdad were saying he shouldn't be put on trial. He should be released into the streets of Sadr City; Sadr City, an incredibly tough neighborhood, one of the toughest here in Baghdad. The implication being that if he was released into the streets he would be killed in mob justice. There are many people here who want to see Saddam Hussein put to death. That is very possible. It could happen if he is found guilty on these varieties of very serious charges.

But Iraq really has never seen anything like this. You could even argue that the world has never seen anything like this. A former dictator being tried by his own people is something we just have not seen. Slobodan Milosevic from Serbia is being tried in an international court, not inside Serbia. Adolf Hitler, of course, never stood trial. Pol Pot never stood trial. Benito Mussolini killed before he could stand trial, murdered by his own people.

So, this is something the world, and particularly Iraq, has never seen. And that's an important point. A lot of Iraqis say, particularly a lot of Iraqi lawyers, are saying, look, this is essential for the future of Iraq, not just for reconciliation, not just for finding out the crimes of the past, but for moving forward and establishing the rule of law in this country.

The rule of law is not something that has existed in this country. It was the rule of Saddam Hussein. Iraqi lawyers today say it is vitally important that Iraqis see this is a new Iraq, a new style of justice, and their justice will be done -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Anderson Cooper, you stay right there, live in Baghdad. We're going to take a short break. On the other end, we'll bring in our senior international editor, too, David Clinch. This is DAYBREAK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

COSTELLO: We do have breaking news to tell you about. As we've been telling you about all morning long, Saddam Hussein, the former Iraqi dictator, is now in an Iraqi court facing a judge for his arraignment. He was taken inside that courtroom in cuffs. A lot of people in Baghdad and all around Iraq are wondering if he'll get a fair trial. In fact, some don't want him to even have a trial at all. They want to mete out their own kind of justice.

Let's head live to Baghdad and check in with Anderson Cooper one more time.

You know, David Clinch is here with me now, Anderson, and he brings up an interesting point. This is an interim Iraqi government. So, many are wondering around the world whether this will be a fair trial.

COOPER: Well, there are certainly those questions to be answered. What the Iraqis will tell you is, look, the proof is in the pudding. We are going to have this thing in front of the world. This is going to be televised, at least at this point in time. We are going to do this by the letter of law as it exists now. We have a number of international jurists who have been advising the council, the Special Iraqi Tribunal on this. They want this to be as open as possible, because they do not want there to be any questions about the legality of it, about the fairness of it down the road.

At this point, Saddam Hussein has been in that court building. He entered the building around 6:20 a.m. Eastern Time in the United States. So that is -- it's been a little bit more than half an hour. So, we do not know if Saddam Hussein is still in the courtroom, exactly what is going on at this point. But as soon as we get anymore information, Carol, we'll let you know.

COSTELLO: OK. And then continuing to talk about that fair trial, the president of Iraq right now. Anderson, I know you have to go. We're going to let you go as we listen to a sound byte from the president of Iraq about the proceedings today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHEIKH GHAZI AL-YAWAR, IRAQI PRESIDENT: Well, it means a lot. It means that a very dark era has been gone forever. This man is going to be tried. All Iraqis can listen and hear and understand that he will be tried according to the law. There will be no political aspect to his trial. It will be a fair trial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: No political aspect to the trial. Is that possible, David?

DAVID CLINCH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL EDITOR: Well, we'll see. I mean, the point that you were making with Anderson there is that the trial isn't going to happen for quite some time, and a lot can happen between now and then. By the time the trial happens there may be an elected Iraqi government. Who will be in that elected government and what effect will that have, that's for the future.

For today, just in terms of us getting coverage of what's happening today, a very important factor is that the U.S. military still has a very important stake in this because of security, the security issue of Saddam appearing at a court. They want to make sure that there is nobody -- no huge crowd at the court. We understand that.

But on the other hand, that is a factor in our ability to get the video of Saddam appearing in court today. And how much will we be allowed to see? So, that will be interesting.

As well as, of course, their long-term responsibility to continue guarding him in Iraq. So, they have sovereignty. They also now have legal control of Saddam, the Iraqis. But the U.S. military is still guarding him and taking that responsibility very seriously.

COSTELLO: So, you have sort of coordinated our coverage of this, this morning. How much will we get to see from inside that courtroom?

CLINCH: Well, we're getting close. We expect to see video of Saddam himself. Obviously, there are 11 others who will also appear in court today. But we expect to get video of Saddam's appearance very shortly. We'll see, but perhaps within the hour or so. And when we do, other networks will also get access to it at the same time.

We will then start to see whether we will be able to hear from him, how much he will say, if we are, in fact, able to hear from him. So, very interesting.

COSTELLO: OK. I'll let you get back to work.

CLINCH: Yes.

COSTELLO: David Clinch, thank you.

That does it for DAYBREAK this morning. "AMERICAN MORNING" will, of course, be covering this in full. Thank you for joining us.

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Aired July 1, 2004 - 06:33   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning again. This is DAYBREAK.
For those of you who are just joining us, it has finally happened. Saddam Hussein is in a courtroom in Iraq for his first, I would say, arraignment. He will face a judge. Maybe he will say a few things.

Let's head live to Baghdad to find our more from Anderson Cooper.

Anderson -- tell our viewers briefly what is happening right now.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Carol, this has happened just a very short time ago. The information is still coming in. We don't have any pictures at this point to show you.

What we know is this: Saddam Hussein is now in the court building at an undisclosed location. We cannot tell you exactly where, but it is in the Baghdad area.

Saddam Hussein was brought into court a short time ago in a convoy of four Humvees, an armored bus. Also in that convoy there was an ambulance just in case anything untoward happened.

Saddam Hussein was taken out of the bus by eight Iraqi corrections officers. He was then led into the courtroom building by two of those Iraqi corrections officers. Advance word had told us that Saddam Hussein was going to be handcuffed -- that was handcuffed, chained to a chain around his waist, and we've not had confirmation on whether that is, in fact, how he was brought into the court. We had been told in advance that he was going to be shaved, wearing a mustache. That he was in civilian clothes.

But he is in the courtroom at this point. That's the most we know. The court proceeding is likely to be under way momentarily, if it has not already begun -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Anderson, we'd like you to stay with us, because we have a guest joining us right now. He (sic) is Maha Azzam, an associate fellow at the Middle East Program in London -- she -- I apologize to you.

This is the first dictator to go on trial in Iraq. We were wondering what do you think is going through Saddam's mind at this moment? MAHA AZZAM, ASSOCIATE FELLOW: I think this is obviously a very difficult moment for Saddam Hussein and for his supporters. This is a moment that would have been inconceivable in the mind of Saddam Hussein. It is something that I think no one would have expected. It's well known that Tariq Aziz, the deputy prime minister, had said once to an interviewer that he would never allow himself to be captured, never allow himself to be put on trial, and that this would be considered very humiliating. I imagine for Saddam Hussein, this is a very humiliating and difficult moment.

COSTELLO: Anderson, you were telling us before something about Saddam's emotional state before this hearing. Can you tell us again?

COOPER: Yes. What we know from Salem Chalabi, who is the executive director of the Iraqi Governing Council, he met with Saddam Hussein and the 11 other members of his former regime yesterday, as well as the Supreme Court judge met with Saddam as well.

He described the meeting as this: He said Saddam Hussein came in. Now, the purpose of the meeting was to inform Saddam Hussein that he was no longer a prisoner of war protected by the Geneva Convention, that he was now under the rule of Iraqi law, and that he would face an Iraqi judge, Iraqi justice.

Saddam Hussein, according to Salem Chalabi, appeared nervous, appeared surprised, did not know what exactly was going on, wanted to ask some questions. Salem Chalabi said no, this is not the time to ask questions. You will be able to do that tomorrow before an Iraqi judge.

So, we are anticipating that Saddam Hussein will be allowed to ask some questions today now that he is in the courtroom building and the court proceedings are under way.

But, again, some are saying apparently he had lost some weight, according to Salem Chalabi again, and this information is all just coming from him, 11 to 12 pounds in weight. So, he did appear healthy, that he has had regular medical checkups.

And that is about as much as we know about the wherewithal and mental state of Saddam Hussein, and a number of the other members of his regime -- former regime seemed nervous as well -- Carol.

COSTELLO: And, Maha, in hearing what Anderson just said, that Saddam Hussein will get a chance to speak in court, what would you expect him to say knowing what you know about Saddam?

AZZAM: I think initially it's difficult to predict. I think he will wonder about the legitimacy of the court there and about how far he is going to have a fair trial. He probably believes, as some of his supporters would, that this is a kangaroo court, that this is an American conspiracy.

I think as the trial gets under way, he would be eager to implicate those that have supported him and to show that what he is being accused of are not crimes, that he was supported, for example, in the Iran-Iraq war by the United States and Saudi Arabia, that others were closely allied him, and he will try to expose that as much as possible.

COSTELLO: And, Anderson, as far as lawyers are concerned, I know his family has hired literally an army of lawyers. What have you heard about Saddam's final representation?

COOPER: Well, at this point, officially he has no representation here in Iraq. There are a number of people who have come forward claiming to be Saddam Hussein's lawyer. There is a gentleman in France, who I've interviewed several times, who says that he has been hired by a nephew of Saddam Hussein.

There is a Jordanian attorney who says that he has been hired by the family of Saddam Hussein, most notably one of Saddam's wives, as well as by the daughters. He, at this point, seems the most credible of all of them. He is based on Jordan. He has called these entire proceedings illegal. He says this is simple not correct under international law. He plans to fight it vigorously.

But exactly what standing at this point he has here is unclear. At this point, Saddam Hussein does not have a lawyer. He will be told this morning and probably is being told right now, if it's not already over, that he can have a lawyer or that he can have a lawyer appointed for him.

There's also the opportunity for him to represent himself. Obviously that is something that I think a lot of Iraqis would not like to see. They would prefer that Saddam Hussein have a lawyer, to have this be on the up and up as much as possible and not involve or devolve or degenerate into some sort of show trial, as we have often seen with Slobodan Milosevic, who is sort of using the International Court at the Hague for publicity and trying to make political points.

They want justice here in Iraq, and they're hoping that this is the first step in that process.

COSTELLO: All right, Anderson Cooper live in Baghdad. Maha Azzam live in London. Thanks to you both.

As we've been telling you all morning long, Saddam Hussein is now appearing before an Iraqi judge. We don't know exactly what's going on inside that courtroom right now, but when we do find out, of course we'll pass that information directly to you.

We're going to take a short break. This is DAYBREAK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: This is DAYBREAK. Welcome back.

A successful stroll through space for the only two men orbiting the Earth. It took nearly six hours for one American astronaut and one Russian cosmonaut to restore power to one of the station's gyroscopes. The gyroscopes keep the International Space Station from spinning out of control. It was a risky walk, because they had to use Russian-made spacesuits that were not designed for spacewalking. But, again, it was a successful mission.

Now to the even farther reaches of space, the Cassini mission to Saturn. The spacecraft has made it through the rings and is now orbiting the planet. That just happened a few hours ago.

For more on this, let's turn to NASA's director of solar system exploration, Orlando Figueroa. He's among the happy campers at the Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena, California.

You look happy.

ORLANDO FIGUEROA, NASA DIRECTOR OF SOLAR SYSTEM EXPLORATION: I need to be very, very happy. It's been an historic moment for us.

COSTELLO: Tell us how difficult this was for that thing to get into Saturn's orbit.

FIGUEROA: Well, it's an inherently high-risk operation no matter how we look at it. The spacecraft has been traveling for six and a half years, almost seven, 3.3 billion kilometers from Saturn is a long journey.

And now, as it entered the Saturnian system, it had to go through the rings, which we know are, you know, largely made of dust and, in some cases, very large particles that can affect and impact and the spacecraft and damage it.

And then entering the orbit is a very difficult operation, all conducted automatically, but everything needs to work perfectly for it to occur. So, for 90 minutes or so while we were firing the engines to get into Saturn orbit was very, very tense.

COSTELLO: I bet. I bet. I saw the cheering after it successfully entered Saturn's orbit. So, tell us what you expect to find from the pictures from the Cassini.

FIGUEROA: Well, over a period of about four years, we intend to conduct a very detailed characterization of the Saturn system, the magnetic field around it, the atmosphere in great detail, how it behaves, its composition, the rings themselves.

We want to study the moons of Saturn. Saturn has 31 moons all distinctly different. Some of them are icy moons. Some of them are, like Titan, the largest moon in the solar system, larger than Mercury and Pluto themselves, planets in the solar system, that we believe holds a lot of clues to the formation of the early days of our solar system. It's like studying a miniature solar system of information.

COSTELLO: Fascinating. It also kind of -- I mean, will we be able to get an example of what the Earth looked like, like billions and billions of years ago?

FIGUEROA: Certainly when we look at Titan, a moon that is very, very intriguing. It's got a lot of organic compounds in this atmosphere, perhaps seas of organic material. And although it's difficult for life to grow in that kind of environment, certainly the primary materials for life to evolve were present. We think that Earth may have been like that when it first started billions of years ago.

COSTELLO: Oh, that's so fascinating! Thank you so much, Orlando Figueroa, from NASA, and we saw you cheering there in Pasadena, California. And we, of course, will follow the Cassini. Thank you, Orlando.

We're going to take you back to Baghdad, because as we've been telling you all morning, Saddam Hussein is inside an Iraqi courtroom facing a judge for the first time.

Anderson Cooper live in Baghdad for us to tell us more.

Have you found out anything?

COOPER: Well, Carol, we can tell you at this point that the trial is near the Baghdad Airport. We have known this information, but we have been sort of sitting on it. The exact details of where it's taking place we can't tell you at this point.

Saddam Hussein brought into the courtroom, brought into the court building from the detention facility where he has been kept now since December when he was first apprehended. A far different Saddam Hussein, we are told, wearing a mustache but clean-shaven. He's lot weight, one estimate of 11 to 12 pounds.

Saddam Hussein brought in, escorted off an armored bus, escorted by four Humvees and a military ambulance as well, escorted by eight Iraqi corrections officers, then brought into the courtroom building by two Iraqi corrections officers.

He's appearing before a single judge. He will be told in general the charges against him: genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity.

Then after that he will be allowed to ask questions. He will be told his rights, the right to legal counsel. After that he will be taken away to another detention facility.

All of this is being videotaped. We do not have the videotape yet. No one has it at this point. It is a pool camera. All media has access to it at the exact same moment. And as soon as we get it, we will show it to you, of course.

Then after Saddam Hussein leaves the courtroom, the 11 other members of his former regime, including Tariq Aziz, including Chemical Ali and a host of others, will be brought forward. Similar proceedings for each of them, the first step in a long road to justice here in Iraq -- Carol.

COSTELLO: And each proceeding won't take very long, because -- well, who knows how long they'll speak. How long will they be allowed to speak? Do you think there will be a time limit on how long they speak, each of these people? COOPER: Yes, Carol, we simply don't know. We had been told in advance they wanted to keep these short, 5 to 10 minutes each. Whether or not that will happen we simply don't know. It's impossible to tell. Nor do we know if the court -- if the actual hearing has already taken -- got under way. The most we can say is Saddam Hussein has entered the court building. There are several rooms in that building. So, as soon as we find out what was said in the courtroom and whether or not a trial is even -- the hearing is under way we'll let you know.

COSTELLO: You know, all along, we've been wondering how public these hearings would be. Is it so tightly controlled that we won't be able to get pictures from inside the courtroom? Or will they eventually be released to the Iraqi public for television?

COOPER: Yes. No, they definitely will be. What we know is this: We will have pictures of Saddam Hussein being brought into the courtroom, the "perp walk" as we call it in the United States. We will also have pictures of Saddam Hussein inside the courtroom, appearing before the judge.

The question that at this point is unanswered, it's a little unclear, we've gone sort of back and forth on it, some differing reports, as to whether or not there will be audio of what is taking place inside the courtroom. We had understood that there would be. Then late today we heard that perhaps there would not be.

Again, that is yet to be determined. We simply don't know.

We will also have video of Saddam Hussein leaving the court building, being escorted by those Iraqi corrections officers back onto the bus and taken away. Where he is being taken away, we cannot say at this point, nor will we have any pictures beyond that -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Yes, we're trying to get David Clinch over here, our senior international editor, to talk more about the process, because it's been very difficult for our international desk to sort of sort this all out.

I want to talk about the Iraqi people and what they may think about all of this. Many of them still fear Saddam Hussein. What will they think when they see him in handcuffs appearing before a judge?

COOPER: I don't know what they're going to think. I can tell you a lot of people are going to be watching. I mean, there is so much curiosity about this, so much trepidation about this. There are those, you know, you talk to on the street, who say, look, this man should be hung. He shouldn't even be tried.

Some radio callers in this morning to a radio program here in Baghdad were saying he shouldn't be put on trial. He should be released into the streets of Sadr City; Sadr City, an incredibly tough neighborhood, one of the toughest here in Baghdad. The implication being that if he was released into the streets he would be killed in mob justice. There are many people here who want to see Saddam Hussein put to death. That is very possible. It could happen if he is found guilty on these varieties of very serious charges.

But Iraq really has never seen anything like this. You could even argue that the world has never seen anything like this. A former dictator being tried by his own people is something we just have not seen. Slobodan Milosevic from Serbia is being tried in an international court, not inside Serbia. Adolf Hitler, of course, never stood trial. Pol Pot never stood trial. Benito Mussolini killed before he could stand trial, murdered by his own people.

So, this is something the world, and particularly Iraq, has never seen. And that's an important point. A lot of Iraqis say, particularly a lot of Iraqi lawyers, are saying, look, this is essential for the future of Iraq, not just for reconciliation, not just for finding out the crimes of the past, but for moving forward and establishing the rule of law in this country.

The rule of law is not something that has existed in this country. It was the rule of Saddam Hussein. Iraqi lawyers today say it is vitally important that Iraqis see this is a new Iraq, a new style of justice, and their justice will be done -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Anderson Cooper, you stay right there, live in Baghdad. We're going to take a short break. On the other end, we'll bring in our senior international editor, too, David Clinch. This is DAYBREAK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

COSTELLO: We do have breaking news to tell you about. As we've been telling you about all morning long, Saddam Hussein, the former Iraqi dictator, is now in an Iraqi court facing a judge for his arraignment. He was taken inside that courtroom in cuffs. A lot of people in Baghdad and all around Iraq are wondering if he'll get a fair trial. In fact, some don't want him to even have a trial at all. They want to mete out their own kind of justice.

Let's head live to Baghdad and check in with Anderson Cooper one more time.

You know, David Clinch is here with me now, Anderson, and he brings up an interesting point. This is an interim Iraqi government. So, many are wondering around the world whether this will be a fair trial.

COOPER: Well, there are certainly those questions to be answered. What the Iraqis will tell you is, look, the proof is in the pudding. We are going to have this thing in front of the world. This is going to be televised, at least at this point in time. We are going to do this by the letter of law as it exists now. We have a number of international jurists who have been advising the council, the Special Iraqi Tribunal on this. They want this to be as open as possible, because they do not want there to be any questions about the legality of it, about the fairness of it down the road.

At this point, Saddam Hussein has been in that court building. He entered the building around 6:20 a.m. Eastern Time in the United States. So that is -- it's been a little bit more than half an hour. So, we do not know if Saddam Hussein is still in the courtroom, exactly what is going on at this point. But as soon as we get anymore information, Carol, we'll let you know.

COSTELLO: OK. And then continuing to talk about that fair trial, the president of Iraq right now. Anderson, I know you have to go. We're going to let you go as we listen to a sound byte from the president of Iraq about the proceedings today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHEIKH GHAZI AL-YAWAR, IRAQI PRESIDENT: Well, it means a lot. It means that a very dark era has been gone forever. This man is going to be tried. All Iraqis can listen and hear and understand that he will be tried according to the law. There will be no political aspect to his trial. It will be a fair trial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: No political aspect to the trial. Is that possible, David?

DAVID CLINCH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL EDITOR: Well, we'll see. I mean, the point that you were making with Anderson there is that the trial isn't going to happen for quite some time, and a lot can happen between now and then. By the time the trial happens there may be an elected Iraqi government. Who will be in that elected government and what effect will that have, that's for the future.

For today, just in terms of us getting coverage of what's happening today, a very important factor is that the U.S. military still has a very important stake in this because of security, the security issue of Saddam appearing at a court. They want to make sure that there is nobody -- no huge crowd at the court. We understand that.

But on the other hand, that is a factor in our ability to get the video of Saddam appearing in court today. And how much will we be allowed to see? So, that will be interesting.

As well as, of course, their long-term responsibility to continue guarding him in Iraq. So, they have sovereignty. They also now have legal control of Saddam, the Iraqis. But the U.S. military is still guarding him and taking that responsibility very seriously.

COSTELLO: So, you have sort of coordinated our coverage of this, this morning. How much will we get to see from inside that courtroom?

CLINCH: Well, we're getting close. We expect to see video of Saddam himself. Obviously, there are 11 others who will also appear in court today. But we expect to get video of Saddam's appearance very shortly. We'll see, but perhaps within the hour or so. And when we do, other networks will also get access to it at the same time.

We will then start to see whether we will be able to hear from him, how much he will say, if we are, in fact, able to hear from him. So, very interesting.

COSTELLO: OK. I'll let you get back to work.

CLINCH: Yes.

COSTELLO: David Clinch, thank you.

That does it for DAYBREAK this morning. "AMERICAN MORNING" will, of course, be covering this in full. Thank you for joining us.

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