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Kerry's V.P. Choice; Cheney Factor; Senator Kerry Chooses John Edwards as Running Mate

Aired July 06, 2004 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: He all but wrapped up the Democratic nomination for president earlier in the year. That's because it's likely to be all about who Kerry picks to be his running mate.
Kelly Wallace with us now from Washington this morning.

Hi -- Kelly. Lots going on today.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lots going on indeed. Heidi, good morning to you.

We are told by a campaign source that Senator Kerry advised the staff he had made a decision around midnight last night. That's when the staff was notified. Many on the staff aware of the position but people are not talking, because the senator himself is expected to make calls to his running mate as well as the other contenders between 8:00 and 9:00 this morning. So, we're told no calls have gone out yet.

This senator has wanted this process to be as secretive as possible. He felt burned back in 2000 when his name as a contender was out there and when he learned in the media that he was not selected.

The way it's supposed to go down, the senator will make those phone calls as close as possible to 9:00 a.m., according to sources. There will be an e-mail announcement to the one million subscribers to JohnKerry.com for the senator to announce it to his supporters. And then he will have that rally in Pittsburgh. He will not be with his running mate.

Sources say the senator will then go to Indianapolis for an event and then will come back to Pittsburgh. And we are getting from sources that the running mate, whomever it is, will ultimately end up in Pittsburgh sometime today, possibly for some event in front of the cameras with the senator and his running mate. And then the two will campaign together in the very important battleground state of Ohio tomorrow -- Heidi.

COLLINS: It's kind of strange, though, Kelly, isn't it, that the running mate will not actually be at the announcement?

WALLACE: It is. And this is in part because the senator has so much wanted to make this as confidential and as secretive as possible. If his running mate would be there, there would be all kinds of attention on who's traveling where, where the aides are going. So, this is one way to make it very secretive, although a campaign source is saying this is not sort of unprecedented, saying back in 1992 when Bill Clinton announced Al gore and in 2000 when Al Gore chose Joe Lieberman that the announcement itself or the news was made without the two candidates together. But then ultimately, of course, the first sighting of the two was the presidential candidate and his running mate.

So, something very different here, because of the concerns the senator had with the process and trying to keep it as secretive as he could -- Heidi.

COLLINS: Right. And speaking of secret, really quickly, Kelly, what about these secret meetings that we've been hearing about between John Edwards and Senator Kerry? He had interrupted his own family vacation apparently to go and meet with John Kerry?

WALLACE: Correct. Interrupted his family vacation. He was in Disney World in Florida. Had a secret meeting on Thursday night with John Kerry in Georgetown, we believe at the home of former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright. So secretive that members of John Edwards' own staff, we are told, were not informed about it.

I'm told by a pretty good source that this was described as a very good meeting. And so, some sense that this could have been or could be a sort of a decisive move by John Kerry in terms of making his decision.

But other advisers cautioning still that there are other names that John Kerry has been looking at. And the two that we continue to hear talked about this morning, Heidi: John Edwards as well as Dick Gephardt. And right now, mum's the word. Sources wanting John Kerry himself to make the announcement to his running mate and to his ultimate contenders -- Heidi.

COLLINS: All right. And we will be there for it. Kelly Wallace, thanks so much.

CNN is going to have live coverage of Senator Kerry's rally in Pittsburgh this morning, scheduled to start in about an hour and a half, at 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time. Again, we're going to have that live for you.

HEMMER: Well, with the spotlight firmly fixed on John Kerry's choice for a running mate, the president's No. 2 man, Dick Cheney, is on the campaign trail. He started with a holiday weekend swing through three battleground states, and at times swing he did, taking some choice cuts at the presumptive Democratic nominee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And there was Senator Kerry's announcement that foreign leaders are supporting his campaign. Right here in Pennsylvania a voter asked the senator directly, who are these foreign leaders? And Senator Kerry said, that's none of your business. But it is our business when a candidate for president claims political endorsements from abroad. This election will be decided by the American people, not by unnamed foreign leaders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Political observers seem to be a bit mixed on whether or not Dick Cheney is an asset or a liability for the Bush team.

With us now to talk about the vice president's role, Jane Mayer of "The New Yorker" is our guest now in D.C.

Jane -- good morning to you.

JANE MAYER, "THE NEW YORKER": Hi. How are you?

HEMMER: I'm doing just fine.

What's the strategy of bringing Dick Cheney out over the weekend?

MAYER: Well, he is playing a very traditional role, which is the role of attack dog, which is what vice presidents often do in order to kind of do the opposition and leave the president in a position where he can be a nicer guy.

HEMMER: What's his style on the stump that you have observed?

MAYER: You know, he campaigns kind of like the chairman of the board. He's not exactly warm and fuzzy. He is terse. And, in fact, when he was interrupted by applause, he said, do you want me to give this speech or not? So he's not -- he is not a guy that really gets into the people in a big way.

HEMMER: Is that what supporters of this administration like, though? We hear words like -- phrases like a father figure. We hear, older, more mature. Is that what they like about him?

MAYER: Well, certainly, he brought so much to the ticket in 2000, because Bush at that point had not had much experience, no experience in national office and no experience with foreign policy. So, Cheney really brought kind of the eminence gris (ph), sort of just a kind of a sense of maturity to the ticket.

And what's happened since then, though, is he's become something of a polarizing figure, really. And the conservative base loves him. He's going to be terrific in bringing out hard-core conservative. But at the same time since 2000, he's become equally sort of radioactive among hard-core liberals. And so, he may turn off as many as he brings in, and that's what the concern is in Washington.

HEMMER: How does the Halliburton issue now affect him four years later, knowing how much has changed in the world?

MAYER: Oh, gosh. I think it's been a great liability. It's an albatross running around his neck. Back in 2000, his experience at Halliburton was a big plus. It was seen as something that showed he could work in the corporate world. Now it's become a symbol of corporate cronyism. And obviously, it's gotten under his skin and really irritated him, too, which is why he had that outburst last week in the Senate.

HEMMER: A couple of things we want to pass along. A pollster for John Kerry, Mark Melman (ph), has called Dick Cheney a ball and chain that Bush is carrying around. A spokesperson for the vice president, Mary Matalin, who we all know so well, calls him the king of swing, saying that he's going to be so important in the swing states come this election November 2.

If you saw "The Washington post" yesterday, Jane, there's a suggestion by some Republicans that they still think Dick Cheney could be dropped from the ticket. Is that a fool's speak after you have listened to the president so many times give the support for him?

MAYER: Well, I think that you will not see him be fired from the ticket. The only possibility might be that he would say, for instance, that his health had become a concern or something like that and step down himself. I don't expect to see that.

But his numbers are bad. I mean, he has -- his negative ratings are at 31 percent and his favorable is only 22 percent. And he has even less than half of the Republicans favorable about him in recent polls. So, he's definitely a polarizing figure.

HEMMER: Jane Mayer from "The New Yorker" in D.C. Thanks, Jane.

MAYER: Glad to be here.

COLLINS: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, it's hard to stand up to bullies, you know? Even harder if it's your boss. But we'll talk to an expert who can tell you how to handle a problem like that.

HEMMER: Also, Elvis may have left the building, but a piece of his own history lives on. That's ahead here on AMERICAN MORNING as well.

COLLINS: And we're never far from the story. We're expecting Senator Kerry to announce his running mate later this morning. We are going to have it for you live when it happens.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Jack here now with the "Question of the Day" about vice presidents or something like that, right?

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How much does the choice for Senator Kerry's vice presidential candidate matter? Apparently two of the major broadcast networks and one New York newspaper are all making predictions on who it's going to be. The problem is they don't agree with what they're reporting.

And so, the Vegas line, if you're interested, Edwards is the front-runner 5 to 1 in Vegas, 6 to 1 Gephardt, 6 to 1 Bill Richardson. He's the governor of New Mexico. And Bob Graham, the Florida senator, comes in at 8 to 1. And just to cover all of the bases, one of the wires is reporting that Kerry's campaign aides have been busy making posters with all of the possible combinations of the front-runners, you know, just to cover their whatchamacallit (ph).

Anthony in Sidney, Nova Scotia: "The choice for vice president is very important. The electorate has to be aware that they're voting for a potential president. Did anyone think that Lyndon Johnson would ascend to the presidency?"

Gary in New City, New York: "Normally, a V.P. choice does not matter. However, this is the most important election in more than a generation. So, this time the V.P. choice will matter. Consider how much Cheney does. I mean, he runs the country."

Pete in Cedar Falls, Iowa: "Kerry's vice presidential pick matters immensely. It's the first presidential decisions he'll make."

What, we've got to stop here? All right, we'll continue these in a minute -- Bill.

HEMMER: Only stopping because CNN is now reporting that John Edwards, the senator from North Carolina, is the selection for Senator John Kerry to be the running mate on the Democratic ticket this year. News just breaking right now.

Senator Edwards made a strong showing this past year in the caucuses in Iowa, the primaries in New Hampshire. Many had argued that he was a man who brought a lot of vigor and enthusiasm to the Democratic debate.

CNN now reporting John Kerry has selected John Edwards. It should be official at 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time, an hour and 19 minutes from now, in downtown Pittsburgh.

Candy Crowley now has a look at the senator.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It is good old- fashioned ticket balance, a Northeastern Democrat on the liberal side, a Southern Democrat on the moderate side.

SENATOR JOHN EDWARDS (D), NORTH CAROLINA: The South is not George Bush's back yard. It is my back yard!

CROWLEY: He has Southern charm, a Southern drawl and maybe some Southern pull. But when John Kerry tapped the senator from North Carolina, he was thinking Midwest -- battleground states where jobs have been lost, where Edwards may move voters like he once moved juries and the wildly successful personal injury trial lawyer. You can hear the skill set at work in the powerful story of a father who loses his job when the factory closes.

EDWARDS: His life will change forever when he looks into the eyes of his little girl tonight. His family's life will change forever. And don't tell me that this doesn't happen, because I have seen it with my own eyes. CROWLEY: In the '04 veepstakes, Edwards had the least political experience, just six years in the Senate. The most public support, he was the favorite in almost every veep poll and the most obvious audition.

EDWARDS: The man that's going to lead us out of the wilderness, back to hope, back to a belief that in our America everything is possible, and build one America that can work for everybody! Ladies and gentlemen, the next president of the United States, Senator John Kerry!

CROWLEY: Edwards brings not just geographic but stylistic symmetry to the ticket. Kerry, son of a diplomat, the product of private boarding schools, long on seasoning, short on style. Edwards, son of a mill worker, the product of public schools who once made "People" magazine's "Sexiest Man Alive" issue.

Kerry's roots are blue blood. Edwards is a self-made multimillionaire whose roots are blue collar, giving authenticity to his signature issue of two Americas -- one rich, one poor.

EDWARDS: In the America you and I build together, we're going to say no to kids going to bed hungry, no to kids who don't have the clothes to keep them warm and no forever to any American working full- time and living in poverty!

CROWLEY: Kerry can take the simple and makes it complex. Edwards takes the complex and makes it simple.

Asked in the primaries if their yet vote on the resolution made them responsible for the Iraq war, Kerry hedged his way through almost two minutes of an answer.

EDWARDS: That's the longest answer I ever heard to a yes or no question.

CROWLEY: Kerry/Edwards, a decision made on the ballot.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Once again, CNN confirming at this hour John Kerry has selected John Edwards to be his vice presidential running mate.

We found it interesting to look at these numbers from a few weeks ago. When asked if you were enthusiastic or satisfied if John Kerry picks the following, John Edwards clearly a winner in the polling; 72 percent say he was their choice.

And almost yesterday we were talking about just the possibility if John Edwards is not chosen, is that now a disappointment for the Democratic faithful? We have a lot to talk about now going forward.

Say good morning to Jeff Greenfield with us as well here on AMERICAN MORNING. JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.

HEMMER: Initial reaction is what, Jeff?

GREENFIELD: This was a choice probably to some extent imposed on Kerry by the voters in the Democratic primaries. This is not the norm if you think of Kennedy and Johnson, Ronald Reagan and George Bush. But the idea of the leading competitor being chosen in this case, I think those numbers reflect the fact that there were a lot of Democrats who saw in Edwards a fresh face. That's the second part.

He had a really interesting choice in a post-9/11 world between a relative outsider, like John Edwards. Even though he's a senator, he's a one-termer, he talks the talk of an outsider. And somebody like a Dick Gephardt, who had clear national security credential. And there were a lot of people who thought in a post-9/11 world, going for the relative outsider is a danger. But the enthusiasm factor, I think, was a very big deal.

I should point out a third thing. Don't say what's going to happen too early. We have our "Dewey Defeats Truman" headline from today's "New York Post," it's Gephardt. I guess this will be a very good collector's item.

But I do think that this is a real indication that Kerry, who has been rapped by some Democrats for not provoking enthusiasm. Yes, they want to beat Bush, but they're not falling love with this guy. Pick the guy who does really rouse the faithful.

HEMMER: Does this say then that I'm John Kerry and I'm going to take care of the national security issues, I'm going to take care of the Iraq issues, and John Edwards is going to be my national guy?

GREENFIELD: I think that's right. I think with Kerry's 20 years in the Senate, with the fact that he has extensive foreign policy credentials, not to mention the Vietnam experience which we have heard and will be hearing lot of, I think he felt that he could pick a relative newcomer, a first-term senator without a lot of national security and defense issues and not suffer from it.

The contrast between John Edwards and Dick Cheney could not be more dramatic, in every way, from how they campaign. I mean, John Edwards is a go-out-and-rouse-the-faithful. Dick Cheney is, to put it mildly, a calm campaigner.

HEMMER: And the other thing you're going to see, these two men facing off in debates. And many felt going back to the primary season that's where John Edwards was the weakest when he talked about international matters and international affairs. And clearly, based on his track record in the Senate, going back to his days as a trial lawyer in North Carolina, that is his weak spot.

GREENFIELD: And it is Dick Cheney's strong spot, former secretary of defense, a guy who is practically the prime minister in this Bush administration. CAFFERTY: What does a medical malpractice lawyer know about, you know, foreign policy? I mean, that's how he made his money. He was a medical malpractice attorney in North Carolina, who made a fortune suing doctors for various whatever, and then got himself elected to the Senate.

GREENFIELD: Well, you would think five years in the Senate, if this was his first year in the Senate that probably would be a fair shot. I mean, you could also say back in 2000 what does the former owner of the Texas Rangers and the governor of Texas know about foreign policy?

CAFFERTY: Well, he had his dad. He had been around the White House for eight years.

GREENFIELD: But I think five years in the Senates takes some of that edge off, although the trial lawyer thing is an interesting thing.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

GREENFIELD: If there's one profession that the Republican business establishment can't stand, it's trial lawyers. Where John Edwards has a protective wall here is he is not a guy who has ginned up class-actions for the fact that your car had a bad paint job.

CAFFERTY: No.

GREENFIELD: He spent his -- he got rich, very rich, representing people who had suffered from alleged medical malpractice. And John Edwards is ready with that story. If they come with that he was a trial lawyer, he'll say, let me tell you about the people that I represented?

But I do think the broader question, Jeff, the foreign policy credentials in general is going to be something that he will be hit on hard.

CAFFERTY: Well, I don't think -- you know, he's a heartbeat away from the top job. And if John Kerry, who is not a young guy, something should, god forbid, befall him, then this man is in the driver's seat, and maybe there are questions about whether he's able to do that or not.

GREENFIELD: I think you will hear those questions raised. I also think John Edwards did not get to be a multimillionaire by being a poor advocate. I think he has answers to these questions, whether they'll be convincing. This is why in some ways the Cheney/Edwards debate that we will see this fall is going to be -- Dick Cheney is a lot better at this than he's seen to be.

HEMMER: Hang out with us, Jeff. We've got a lot to talk about throughout the morning here -- Heidi.

COLLINS: We do. We're going to pass it over now to Dana Bash. She's standing by at the White House with some new information on all of this, this morning.

Good morning to you -- Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning Heidi.

And we do. We have been reporting here from Democratic sources, campaign sources, that Senator John Kerry has told his senior staff that he is going to choose John Edwards. It's unclear at this time if the senator has spoken with John Edwards and told him that he's actually his pick. We were told that that was likely to happen in this half-hour. So, it could be happening as we speak.

We were told that Senator Kerry then wanted to make sure to call the people who he did not choose, the other people that were on his list.

Now, the campaign gave out a memo this morning saying that he actually went through about 25 people who he considered. Now, it's unlikely or unclear if the actual list of people that Senator Kerry really considered strongly is that large, but we do expect that he will be calling some of the people to say that he's sorry that he did not choose them, and he hopes that they will be able to support him.

And it's important to note something that we are going see in about an hour from now, and that is that Senator Kerry will be on a stage at a rally in Pittsburgh, and he will be doing this rally alone. He will not be doing this with John Edwards. He will -- this is something that really breaks with past tradition, and that is something that the campaign wanted to do. They wanted to try to surprise us. They certainly wanted to keep this secret, which they did a pretty good job of.

And it's going to be interesting to watch, because in past memory most presidential candidates have been on the stage for that picture that we all remember. All of the candidates in past standing there, holding hands, and rallying with their running mate. That is not something that we will see at the initial event.

We are told that Kerry's staff is going to pick up Senator Edwards probably in the next hour or so and get on a plane and head to Pittsburgh. And that is where the two of them will meet up sometime today. But that will happen after the initial rally, where Senator Kerry will announce John Edwards alone.

And it's also important to note that Senator Kerry's campaign wanted to do this through the Internet. So, the senator's advisers, his contributors, will be getting an e-mail shortly with this news. So, they will see it as well just as we're reporting it.

One last note, Heidi. The Republicans were so quick to respond to this. The rapid response was quite unbelievable. The minute we started reporting this, I got on my e-mail, as others did. Notes from the Bush campaign immediately starting to hit at Senator Edwards, talking about his record, talking about the reasons why they do not think that he is a good pick. So, they were ready to put their finger on the button, and they did it. And the Bush campaign is going to come out momentarily with an ad, with President Bush and Senator John McCain, because there were reports that perhaps Senator Kerry wanted Republican Senator John McCain initially as his running mate. Whether or not that is true, the Bush campaign is going to try to play that up, trying to point out, they say, that John Edwards perhaps was John Kerry's second choice -- Heidi.

COLLINS: Interesting. All right, Dana Bash, thanks so much. Actually from our bureau today. Appreciate it.

HEMMER: A couple of things we want to chew on throughout the morning here. John King came up with this earlier today. The five criteria that John Kerry set out last spring that he wanted in a vice presidential running mate. No. 1, the candidate had to have a distinguished record of leadership and service to America. Does a six-year senator do that?

No. 5, first and most important, the candidate had to be ready at any moment to assume the awesome responsibility of president. What Dana Bash is referring to is how the White House now is going to plot their strategy based on the ticket that is now formed here.

CAFFERTY: It's interesting to me, they call this the melting pot, and, you know, this country of ours, almost 300 million people. Once again the four top candidates in a presidential election are wealthy white men. There are no women. There are no blacks. There are no -- there's nothing but four rich white guys.

GREENFIELD: We do have a Catholic on the ticket for only the third time in history.

CAFFERTY: Well, that one is the second or third time.

GREENFIELD: The third time.

CAFFERTY: That's true.

GREENFIELD: You also -- yes, the wealth factor is kind of interesting. I mean, Dick Gephardt is a person who lives on his congressional salary and has to figure out how to send his kids to college. Of these four people, the least affluent is George W. Bush, if the records are right. John Edwards is worth upwards of tens of millions of dollars. Dick Cheney made a fortune as Halliburton's CEO. And John Kerry married Teresa Heinz-Kerry, who is worth somewhere between half a billion and a billion dollars.

CAFFERTY: Even President Bush has a net worth in eight figures. It's above $10 million.

GREENFIELD: Yes.

HEMMER: A few of the pros for John Edwards: Preferred by the party regulars. We showed you that poll earlier today. Well over 70 percent say he is their choice. He's their guy. Seen as a dynamic speaker, much like Bill Clinton, in that same vein. Being a Southerner as well.

Others have argued, how much control and power can he have in the South? He won South Carolina in the primary.

GREENFIELD: Yes, but that's a Democratic primary. South Carolina is one of the most Republican states. I'm not sure -- there is one number, if you want to be drunk on polls, which we tend to be at this point...

CAFFERTY: Well, why not?

GREENFIELD: ... that he makes North Carolina marginally more competitive.

My own feeling is that this is as much about the rural vote in places like Missouri, in places like Pennsylvania, in places like Michigan than it is about the South, because that's a vote that George W. Bush won big in 2000. There are some signs that Democrats can make an inroad. And it's more Edwards' persona, his life story. He was born, as he's told us, the son of a mill worker, first in his family to go to college. That connects with exactly the kind of Democrats who have been defecting from the party.

CAFFERTY: Let me ask you a question. You've followed these guys for a long time. If it's not for Howard Dean, Edwards might be at the top of this ticket. Kerry, in some corners, almost became the default candidate when Howard Dean had that spontaneous combustion out there after the Iowa caucuses.

And suddenly it was like the primary voters in succeeding elections reached for something safe, a known quantity. Edwards is young. He's charismatic. He's almost Clintonesque in his ability to appeal to young voters, get out there on the campaign trail and come across as sincerely energized with the prospects of running the country.

Is there any currency to that idea that Edwards was maybe this close to having the job?

GREENFIELD: I think, in fact, that if you throw into that mix if it weren't for September 11, Edwards might well have been the nominee. He clearly was a strong finisher almost everywhere he campaigned with the exception of New Hampshire. But I do think in a post-9/11 world, Kerry's credentials on national security and his Vietnam heroism, which I think politically was a very helpful asset, was the difference.

But I think you're right. I think whatever factor you want to put in, Edwards came very close to winning this thing. Had he ever gotten Kerry one on one he might have. And that's one of the reasons why this pick makes sense. It's a way of saying to the party, I recognize that a lot of my fellow Democrats like this guy a lot.

CAFFERTY: The other question is: What are the chances Kerry will pick somebody else tomorrow?

COLLINS: Oh, yes.

HEMMER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

CAFFERTY: Yes.

COLLINS: Let me ask you a quick question, too. What about John Edwards' One America Committee? You know, talking here a little bit about his plan all along to be presented as the most popular vice president nominee. And talking about going into Boston, I mean, he's got about 500 delegates, right?

GREENFIELD: Yes, but, I mean, that's a formality. That's not a...

COLLINS: But it's more...

GREENFIELD: What I'm saying is, it's part of what we were talking about. He accumulated a certain amount of real support on this own. And Kerry, it's a way of saying to the party, I recognize who you wanted me to pick.

I mean, we are going to hear, by the way -- I put this out as a protective device for all of us. Within about three seconds we're going to hear, what does this mean for Hillary Clinton?

CAFFERTY: Yes.

GREENFIELD: Because you've now got a young charismatic guy on the ticket. If Kerry wins, he's the presumptive next. We're already looking forward to 2008 and 2012, 2050. I think for the moment that the best way 20 to do this is focus on what this choice means for John Kerry.

CAFFERTY: Right.

HEMMER: And don't underscore where this announcement is taking place today, in downtown Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We know how critical that is. You're drawing the markets from West Virginia.

GREENFIELD: Right.

HEMMER: You're drawing all of the markets from northeastern Ohio. Later today you go to Indiana, another battleground state.

GREENFIELD: No.

HEMMER: And then at the end of the day, back in Washington, D.C.

GREENFIELD: I hate to do this. Indiana is not a battleground state. Indiana is one of the most Republican states. It is the one non-battleground state between that whole stretch of Pennsylvania and Ohio and Michigan. He's going there because it's a big event. But if Indiana is a battleground this fall, I'm taking the rest of the year off.

HEMMER: Back to the point, though. You're in Pittsburgh. GREENFIELD: Now you're talking.

HEMMER: You're pulling in a lot of markets in key areas for this race.

GREENFIELD: George W. Bush has visited Pennsylvania more than any other state, except for Texas. Do you think he may be right to take that state away from the Democrats? I think you're dead right on that one.

CAFFERTY: If you're John Kerry, Jeff, do you pick up the phone at some point in this process and call Senator Clinton and kind of fiddle with the idea that maybe -- see if she's interested in being on the ticket? There is no question that she wants to be president of the United States in 2008.

GREENFIELD: I think that this was a complete fantasy on the part of people who are obsessed one way or the other with Hillary. There are people in the Republican Party who see her as Moby Dick, and they're all Ahab. The idea of picking a polarizing figure...

CAFFERTY: That's an interesting description.

GREENFIELD: ... from the safest Democratic big state in the country to run with you, that raises all of these old issues that you don't want raised. And she's a smart cookie. She needs time to separate her own political life from that of her husband's.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

GREENFIELD: I just think this was a fantasy from the very beginning, but it kept people off the streets and gave them employment...

CAFFERTY: It gave them something to do, yes.

HEMMER: Yes, so often, if you look at the history for selecting a running mate, it's a surprise. Joe Lieberman was a surprise in 2000. I think Dick Cheney for the most part was a surprise as well.

GREENFIELD: You bet.

CAFFERTY: Geraldine Ferraro.

HEMMER: Very true, yes, another one as well.

GREENFIELD: This was not.

HEMMER: I don't think this is. It doesn't fall into that category at this point.

GREENFIELD: No. The neat thing about this for me is that it happens twice very -- or once every four years, so there's not that much history.

CAFFERTY: Yes. GREENFIELD: This is a throwback to the idea of uniting a party and giving the power to the hands of the party people. It's much more like Ronald Reagan picking the George W. -- I mean, picking the first George Bush. He finished second. He had a constituency I don't have among more moderate Republicans. That's...

HEMMER: Camp 1996, another shocker at that point.

GREENFIELD: Yes.

HEMMER: Bob Dole going there.

GREENFIELD: Yes.

HEMMER: Listen, hang on a second here. We've got a lot to talk about. We're just getting started, aren't we?

The choice that CNN has confirmed now, John Kerry has selected John Edwards to be his running mate. That announcement should become official in about an hour's time live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Our coverage continues right now here on AMERICAN MORNING.

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Aired July 6, 2004 - 07:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: He all but wrapped up the Democratic nomination for president earlier in the year. That's because it's likely to be all about who Kerry picks to be his running mate.
Kelly Wallace with us now from Washington this morning.

Hi -- Kelly. Lots going on today.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lots going on indeed. Heidi, good morning to you.

We are told by a campaign source that Senator Kerry advised the staff he had made a decision around midnight last night. That's when the staff was notified. Many on the staff aware of the position but people are not talking, because the senator himself is expected to make calls to his running mate as well as the other contenders between 8:00 and 9:00 this morning. So, we're told no calls have gone out yet.

This senator has wanted this process to be as secretive as possible. He felt burned back in 2000 when his name as a contender was out there and when he learned in the media that he was not selected.

The way it's supposed to go down, the senator will make those phone calls as close as possible to 9:00 a.m., according to sources. There will be an e-mail announcement to the one million subscribers to JohnKerry.com for the senator to announce it to his supporters. And then he will have that rally in Pittsburgh. He will not be with his running mate.

Sources say the senator will then go to Indianapolis for an event and then will come back to Pittsburgh. And we are getting from sources that the running mate, whomever it is, will ultimately end up in Pittsburgh sometime today, possibly for some event in front of the cameras with the senator and his running mate. And then the two will campaign together in the very important battleground state of Ohio tomorrow -- Heidi.

COLLINS: It's kind of strange, though, Kelly, isn't it, that the running mate will not actually be at the announcement?

WALLACE: It is. And this is in part because the senator has so much wanted to make this as confidential and as secretive as possible. If his running mate would be there, there would be all kinds of attention on who's traveling where, where the aides are going. So, this is one way to make it very secretive, although a campaign source is saying this is not sort of unprecedented, saying back in 1992 when Bill Clinton announced Al gore and in 2000 when Al Gore chose Joe Lieberman that the announcement itself or the news was made without the two candidates together. But then ultimately, of course, the first sighting of the two was the presidential candidate and his running mate.

So, something very different here, because of the concerns the senator had with the process and trying to keep it as secretive as he could -- Heidi.

COLLINS: Right. And speaking of secret, really quickly, Kelly, what about these secret meetings that we've been hearing about between John Edwards and Senator Kerry? He had interrupted his own family vacation apparently to go and meet with John Kerry?

WALLACE: Correct. Interrupted his family vacation. He was in Disney World in Florida. Had a secret meeting on Thursday night with John Kerry in Georgetown, we believe at the home of former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright. So secretive that members of John Edwards' own staff, we are told, were not informed about it.

I'm told by a pretty good source that this was described as a very good meeting. And so, some sense that this could have been or could be a sort of a decisive move by John Kerry in terms of making his decision.

But other advisers cautioning still that there are other names that John Kerry has been looking at. And the two that we continue to hear talked about this morning, Heidi: John Edwards as well as Dick Gephardt. And right now, mum's the word. Sources wanting John Kerry himself to make the announcement to his running mate and to his ultimate contenders -- Heidi.

COLLINS: All right. And we will be there for it. Kelly Wallace, thanks so much.

CNN is going to have live coverage of Senator Kerry's rally in Pittsburgh this morning, scheduled to start in about an hour and a half, at 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time. Again, we're going to have that live for you.

HEMMER: Well, with the spotlight firmly fixed on John Kerry's choice for a running mate, the president's No. 2 man, Dick Cheney, is on the campaign trail. He started with a holiday weekend swing through three battleground states, and at times swing he did, taking some choice cuts at the presumptive Democratic nominee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And there was Senator Kerry's announcement that foreign leaders are supporting his campaign. Right here in Pennsylvania a voter asked the senator directly, who are these foreign leaders? And Senator Kerry said, that's none of your business. But it is our business when a candidate for president claims political endorsements from abroad. This election will be decided by the American people, not by unnamed foreign leaders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Political observers seem to be a bit mixed on whether or not Dick Cheney is an asset or a liability for the Bush team.

With us now to talk about the vice president's role, Jane Mayer of "The New Yorker" is our guest now in D.C.

Jane -- good morning to you.

JANE MAYER, "THE NEW YORKER": Hi. How are you?

HEMMER: I'm doing just fine.

What's the strategy of bringing Dick Cheney out over the weekend?

MAYER: Well, he is playing a very traditional role, which is the role of attack dog, which is what vice presidents often do in order to kind of do the opposition and leave the president in a position where he can be a nicer guy.

HEMMER: What's his style on the stump that you have observed?

MAYER: You know, he campaigns kind of like the chairman of the board. He's not exactly warm and fuzzy. He is terse. And, in fact, when he was interrupted by applause, he said, do you want me to give this speech or not? So he's not -- he is not a guy that really gets into the people in a big way.

HEMMER: Is that what supporters of this administration like, though? We hear words like -- phrases like a father figure. We hear, older, more mature. Is that what they like about him?

MAYER: Well, certainly, he brought so much to the ticket in 2000, because Bush at that point had not had much experience, no experience in national office and no experience with foreign policy. So, Cheney really brought kind of the eminence gris (ph), sort of just a kind of a sense of maturity to the ticket.

And what's happened since then, though, is he's become something of a polarizing figure, really. And the conservative base loves him. He's going to be terrific in bringing out hard-core conservative. But at the same time since 2000, he's become equally sort of radioactive among hard-core liberals. And so, he may turn off as many as he brings in, and that's what the concern is in Washington.

HEMMER: How does the Halliburton issue now affect him four years later, knowing how much has changed in the world?

MAYER: Oh, gosh. I think it's been a great liability. It's an albatross running around his neck. Back in 2000, his experience at Halliburton was a big plus. It was seen as something that showed he could work in the corporate world. Now it's become a symbol of corporate cronyism. And obviously, it's gotten under his skin and really irritated him, too, which is why he had that outburst last week in the Senate.

HEMMER: A couple of things we want to pass along. A pollster for John Kerry, Mark Melman (ph), has called Dick Cheney a ball and chain that Bush is carrying around. A spokesperson for the vice president, Mary Matalin, who we all know so well, calls him the king of swing, saying that he's going to be so important in the swing states come this election November 2.

If you saw "The Washington post" yesterday, Jane, there's a suggestion by some Republicans that they still think Dick Cheney could be dropped from the ticket. Is that a fool's speak after you have listened to the president so many times give the support for him?

MAYER: Well, I think that you will not see him be fired from the ticket. The only possibility might be that he would say, for instance, that his health had become a concern or something like that and step down himself. I don't expect to see that.

But his numbers are bad. I mean, he has -- his negative ratings are at 31 percent and his favorable is only 22 percent. And he has even less than half of the Republicans favorable about him in recent polls. So, he's definitely a polarizing figure.

HEMMER: Jane Mayer from "The New Yorker" in D.C. Thanks, Jane.

MAYER: Glad to be here.

COLLINS: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, it's hard to stand up to bullies, you know? Even harder if it's your boss. But we'll talk to an expert who can tell you how to handle a problem like that.

HEMMER: Also, Elvis may have left the building, but a piece of his own history lives on. That's ahead here on AMERICAN MORNING as well.

COLLINS: And we're never far from the story. We're expecting Senator Kerry to announce his running mate later this morning. We are going to have it for you live when it happens.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Jack here now with the "Question of the Day" about vice presidents or something like that, right?

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How much does the choice for Senator Kerry's vice presidential candidate matter? Apparently two of the major broadcast networks and one New York newspaper are all making predictions on who it's going to be. The problem is they don't agree with what they're reporting.

And so, the Vegas line, if you're interested, Edwards is the front-runner 5 to 1 in Vegas, 6 to 1 Gephardt, 6 to 1 Bill Richardson. He's the governor of New Mexico. And Bob Graham, the Florida senator, comes in at 8 to 1. And just to cover all of the bases, one of the wires is reporting that Kerry's campaign aides have been busy making posters with all of the possible combinations of the front-runners, you know, just to cover their whatchamacallit (ph).

Anthony in Sidney, Nova Scotia: "The choice for vice president is very important. The electorate has to be aware that they're voting for a potential president. Did anyone think that Lyndon Johnson would ascend to the presidency?"

Gary in New City, New York: "Normally, a V.P. choice does not matter. However, this is the most important election in more than a generation. So, this time the V.P. choice will matter. Consider how much Cheney does. I mean, he runs the country."

Pete in Cedar Falls, Iowa: "Kerry's vice presidential pick matters immensely. It's the first presidential decisions he'll make."

What, we've got to stop here? All right, we'll continue these in a minute -- Bill.

HEMMER: Only stopping because CNN is now reporting that John Edwards, the senator from North Carolina, is the selection for Senator John Kerry to be the running mate on the Democratic ticket this year. News just breaking right now.

Senator Edwards made a strong showing this past year in the caucuses in Iowa, the primaries in New Hampshire. Many had argued that he was a man who brought a lot of vigor and enthusiasm to the Democratic debate.

CNN now reporting John Kerry has selected John Edwards. It should be official at 9:00 a.m. Eastern Time, an hour and 19 minutes from now, in downtown Pittsburgh.

Candy Crowley now has a look at the senator.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It is good old- fashioned ticket balance, a Northeastern Democrat on the liberal side, a Southern Democrat on the moderate side.

SENATOR JOHN EDWARDS (D), NORTH CAROLINA: The South is not George Bush's back yard. It is my back yard!

CROWLEY: He has Southern charm, a Southern drawl and maybe some Southern pull. But when John Kerry tapped the senator from North Carolina, he was thinking Midwest -- battleground states where jobs have been lost, where Edwards may move voters like he once moved juries and the wildly successful personal injury trial lawyer. You can hear the skill set at work in the powerful story of a father who loses his job when the factory closes.

EDWARDS: His life will change forever when he looks into the eyes of his little girl tonight. His family's life will change forever. And don't tell me that this doesn't happen, because I have seen it with my own eyes. CROWLEY: In the '04 veepstakes, Edwards had the least political experience, just six years in the Senate. The most public support, he was the favorite in almost every veep poll and the most obvious audition.

EDWARDS: The man that's going to lead us out of the wilderness, back to hope, back to a belief that in our America everything is possible, and build one America that can work for everybody! Ladies and gentlemen, the next president of the United States, Senator John Kerry!

CROWLEY: Edwards brings not just geographic but stylistic symmetry to the ticket. Kerry, son of a diplomat, the product of private boarding schools, long on seasoning, short on style. Edwards, son of a mill worker, the product of public schools who once made "People" magazine's "Sexiest Man Alive" issue.

Kerry's roots are blue blood. Edwards is a self-made multimillionaire whose roots are blue collar, giving authenticity to his signature issue of two Americas -- one rich, one poor.

EDWARDS: In the America you and I build together, we're going to say no to kids going to bed hungry, no to kids who don't have the clothes to keep them warm and no forever to any American working full- time and living in poverty!

CROWLEY: Kerry can take the simple and makes it complex. Edwards takes the complex and makes it simple.

Asked in the primaries if their yet vote on the resolution made them responsible for the Iraq war, Kerry hedged his way through almost two minutes of an answer.

EDWARDS: That's the longest answer I ever heard to a yes or no question.

CROWLEY: Kerry/Edwards, a decision made on the ballot.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Once again, CNN confirming at this hour John Kerry has selected John Edwards to be his vice presidential running mate.

We found it interesting to look at these numbers from a few weeks ago. When asked if you were enthusiastic or satisfied if John Kerry picks the following, John Edwards clearly a winner in the polling; 72 percent say he was their choice.

And almost yesterday we were talking about just the possibility if John Edwards is not chosen, is that now a disappointment for the Democratic faithful? We have a lot to talk about now going forward.

Say good morning to Jeff Greenfield with us as well here on AMERICAN MORNING. JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.

HEMMER: Initial reaction is what, Jeff?

GREENFIELD: This was a choice probably to some extent imposed on Kerry by the voters in the Democratic primaries. This is not the norm if you think of Kennedy and Johnson, Ronald Reagan and George Bush. But the idea of the leading competitor being chosen in this case, I think those numbers reflect the fact that there were a lot of Democrats who saw in Edwards a fresh face. That's the second part.

He had a really interesting choice in a post-9/11 world between a relative outsider, like John Edwards. Even though he's a senator, he's a one-termer, he talks the talk of an outsider. And somebody like a Dick Gephardt, who had clear national security credential. And there were a lot of people who thought in a post-9/11 world, going for the relative outsider is a danger. But the enthusiasm factor, I think, was a very big deal.

I should point out a third thing. Don't say what's going to happen too early. We have our "Dewey Defeats Truman" headline from today's "New York Post," it's Gephardt. I guess this will be a very good collector's item.

But I do think that this is a real indication that Kerry, who has been rapped by some Democrats for not provoking enthusiasm. Yes, they want to beat Bush, but they're not falling love with this guy. Pick the guy who does really rouse the faithful.

HEMMER: Does this say then that I'm John Kerry and I'm going to take care of the national security issues, I'm going to take care of the Iraq issues, and John Edwards is going to be my national guy?

GREENFIELD: I think that's right. I think with Kerry's 20 years in the Senate, with the fact that he has extensive foreign policy credentials, not to mention the Vietnam experience which we have heard and will be hearing lot of, I think he felt that he could pick a relative newcomer, a first-term senator without a lot of national security and defense issues and not suffer from it.

The contrast between John Edwards and Dick Cheney could not be more dramatic, in every way, from how they campaign. I mean, John Edwards is a go-out-and-rouse-the-faithful. Dick Cheney is, to put it mildly, a calm campaigner.

HEMMER: And the other thing you're going to see, these two men facing off in debates. And many felt going back to the primary season that's where John Edwards was the weakest when he talked about international matters and international affairs. And clearly, based on his track record in the Senate, going back to his days as a trial lawyer in North Carolina, that is his weak spot.

GREENFIELD: And it is Dick Cheney's strong spot, former secretary of defense, a guy who is practically the prime minister in this Bush administration. CAFFERTY: What does a medical malpractice lawyer know about, you know, foreign policy? I mean, that's how he made his money. He was a medical malpractice attorney in North Carolina, who made a fortune suing doctors for various whatever, and then got himself elected to the Senate.

GREENFIELD: Well, you would think five years in the Senate, if this was his first year in the Senate that probably would be a fair shot. I mean, you could also say back in 2000 what does the former owner of the Texas Rangers and the governor of Texas know about foreign policy?

CAFFERTY: Well, he had his dad. He had been around the White House for eight years.

GREENFIELD: But I think five years in the Senates takes some of that edge off, although the trial lawyer thing is an interesting thing.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

GREENFIELD: If there's one profession that the Republican business establishment can't stand, it's trial lawyers. Where John Edwards has a protective wall here is he is not a guy who has ginned up class-actions for the fact that your car had a bad paint job.

CAFFERTY: No.

GREENFIELD: He spent his -- he got rich, very rich, representing people who had suffered from alleged medical malpractice. And John Edwards is ready with that story. If they come with that he was a trial lawyer, he'll say, let me tell you about the people that I represented?

But I do think the broader question, Jeff, the foreign policy credentials in general is going to be something that he will be hit on hard.

CAFFERTY: Well, I don't think -- you know, he's a heartbeat away from the top job. And if John Kerry, who is not a young guy, something should, god forbid, befall him, then this man is in the driver's seat, and maybe there are questions about whether he's able to do that or not.

GREENFIELD: I think you will hear those questions raised. I also think John Edwards did not get to be a multimillionaire by being a poor advocate. I think he has answers to these questions, whether they'll be convincing. This is why in some ways the Cheney/Edwards debate that we will see this fall is going to be -- Dick Cheney is a lot better at this than he's seen to be.

HEMMER: Hang out with us, Jeff. We've got a lot to talk about throughout the morning here -- Heidi.

COLLINS: We do. We're going to pass it over now to Dana Bash. She's standing by at the White House with some new information on all of this, this morning.

Good morning to you -- Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning Heidi.

And we do. We have been reporting here from Democratic sources, campaign sources, that Senator John Kerry has told his senior staff that he is going to choose John Edwards. It's unclear at this time if the senator has spoken with John Edwards and told him that he's actually his pick. We were told that that was likely to happen in this half-hour. So, it could be happening as we speak.

We were told that Senator Kerry then wanted to make sure to call the people who he did not choose, the other people that were on his list.

Now, the campaign gave out a memo this morning saying that he actually went through about 25 people who he considered. Now, it's unlikely or unclear if the actual list of people that Senator Kerry really considered strongly is that large, but we do expect that he will be calling some of the people to say that he's sorry that he did not choose them, and he hopes that they will be able to support him.

And it's important to note something that we are going see in about an hour from now, and that is that Senator Kerry will be on a stage at a rally in Pittsburgh, and he will be doing this rally alone. He will not be doing this with John Edwards. He will -- this is something that really breaks with past tradition, and that is something that the campaign wanted to do. They wanted to try to surprise us. They certainly wanted to keep this secret, which they did a pretty good job of.

And it's going to be interesting to watch, because in past memory most presidential candidates have been on the stage for that picture that we all remember. All of the candidates in past standing there, holding hands, and rallying with their running mate. That is not something that we will see at the initial event.

We are told that Kerry's staff is going to pick up Senator Edwards probably in the next hour or so and get on a plane and head to Pittsburgh. And that is where the two of them will meet up sometime today. But that will happen after the initial rally, where Senator Kerry will announce John Edwards alone.

And it's also important to note that Senator Kerry's campaign wanted to do this through the Internet. So, the senator's advisers, his contributors, will be getting an e-mail shortly with this news. So, they will see it as well just as we're reporting it.

One last note, Heidi. The Republicans were so quick to respond to this. The rapid response was quite unbelievable. The minute we started reporting this, I got on my e-mail, as others did. Notes from the Bush campaign immediately starting to hit at Senator Edwards, talking about his record, talking about the reasons why they do not think that he is a good pick. So, they were ready to put their finger on the button, and they did it. And the Bush campaign is going to come out momentarily with an ad, with President Bush and Senator John McCain, because there were reports that perhaps Senator Kerry wanted Republican Senator John McCain initially as his running mate. Whether or not that is true, the Bush campaign is going to try to play that up, trying to point out, they say, that John Edwards perhaps was John Kerry's second choice -- Heidi.

COLLINS: Interesting. All right, Dana Bash, thanks so much. Actually from our bureau today. Appreciate it.

HEMMER: A couple of things we want to chew on throughout the morning here. John King came up with this earlier today. The five criteria that John Kerry set out last spring that he wanted in a vice presidential running mate. No. 1, the candidate had to have a distinguished record of leadership and service to America. Does a six-year senator do that?

No. 5, first and most important, the candidate had to be ready at any moment to assume the awesome responsibility of president. What Dana Bash is referring to is how the White House now is going to plot their strategy based on the ticket that is now formed here.

CAFFERTY: It's interesting to me, they call this the melting pot, and, you know, this country of ours, almost 300 million people. Once again the four top candidates in a presidential election are wealthy white men. There are no women. There are no blacks. There are no -- there's nothing but four rich white guys.

GREENFIELD: We do have a Catholic on the ticket for only the third time in history.

CAFFERTY: Well, that one is the second or third time.

GREENFIELD: The third time.

CAFFERTY: That's true.

GREENFIELD: You also -- yes, the wealth factor is kind of interesting. I mean, Dick Gephardt is a person who lives on his congressional salary and has to figure out how to send his kids to college. Of these four people, the least affluent is George W. Bush, if the records are right. John Edwards is worth upwards of tens of millions of dollars. Dick Cheney made a fortune as Halliburton's CEO. And John Kerry married Teresa Heinz-Kerry, who is worth somewhere between half a billion and a billion dollars.

CAFFERTY: Even President Bush has a net worth in eight figures. It's above $10 million.

GREENFIELD: Yes.

HEMMER: A few of the pros for John Edwards: Preferred by the party regulars. We showed you that poll earlier today. Well over 70 percent say he is their choice. He's their guy. Seen as a dynamic speaker, much like Bill Clinton, in that same vein. Being a Southerner as well.

Others have argued, how much control and power can he have in the South? He won South Carolina in the primary.

GREENFIELD: Yes, but that's a Democratic primary. South Carolina is one of the most Republican states. I'm not sure -- there is one number, if you want to be drunk on polls, which we tend to be at this point...

CAFFERTY: Well, why not?

GREENFIELD: ... that he makes North Carolina marginally more competitive.

My own feeling is that this is as much about the rural vote in places like Missouri, in places like Pennsylvania, in places like Michigan than it is about the South, because that's a vote that George W. Bush won big in 2000. There are some signs that Democrats can make an inroad. And it's more Edwards' persona, his life story. He was born, as he's told us, the son of a mill worker, first in his family to go to college. That connects with exactly the kind of Democrats who have been defecting from the party.

CAFFERTY: Let me ask you a question. You've followed these guys for a long time. If it's not for Howard Dean, Edwards might be at the top of this ticket. Kerry, in some corners, almost became the default candidate when Howard Dean had that spontaneous combustion out there after the Iowa caucuses.

And suddenly it was like the primary voters in succeeding elections reached for something safe, a known quantity. Edwards is young. He's charismatic. He's almost Clintonesque in his ability to appeal to young voters, get out there on the campaign trail and come across as sincerely energized with the prospects of running the country.

Is there any currency to that idea that Edwards was maybe this close to having the job?

GREENFIELD: I think, in fact, that if you throw into that mix if it weren't for September 11, Edwards might well have been the nominee. He clearly was a strong finisher almost everywhere he campaigned with the exception of New Hampshire. But I do think in a post-9/11 world, Kerry's credentials on national security and his Vietnam heroism, which I think politically was a very helpful asset, was the difference.

But I think you're right. I think whatever factor you want to put in, Edwards came very close to winning this thing. Had he ever gotten Kerry one on one he might have. And that's one of the reasons why this pick makes sense. It's a way of saying to the party, I recognize that a lot of my fellow Democrats like this guy a lot.

CAFFERTY: The other question is: What are the chances Kerry will pick somebody else tomorrow?

COLLINS: Oh, yes.

HEMMER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

CAFFERTY: Yes.

COLLINS: Let me ask you a quick question, too. What about John Edwards' One America Committee? You know, talking here a little bit about his plan all along to be presented as the most popular vice president nominee. And talking about going into Boston, I mean, he's got about 500 delegates, right?

GREENFIELD: Yes, but, I mean, that's a formality. That's not a...

COLLINS: But it's more...

GREENFIELD: What I'm saying is, it's part of what we were talking about. He accumulated a certain amount of real support on this own. And Kerry, it's a way of saying to the party, I recognize who you wanted me to pick.

I mean, we are going to hear, by the way -- I put this out as a protective device for all of us. Within about three seconds we're going to hear, what does this mean for Hillary Clinton?

CAFFERTY: Yes.

GREENFIELD: Because you've now got a young charismatic guy on the ticket. If Kerry wins, he's the presumptive next. We're already looking forward to 2008 and 2012, 2050. I think for the moment that the best way 20 to do this is focus on what this choice means for John Kerry.

CAFFERTY: Right.

HEMMER: And don't underscore where this announcement is taking place today, in downtown Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We know how critical that is. You're drawing the markets from West Virginia.

GREENFIELD: Right.

HEMMER: You're drawing all of the markets from northeastern Ohio. Later today you go to Indiana, another battleground state.

GREENFIELD: No.

HEMMER: And then at the end of the day, back in Washington, D.C.

GREENFIELD: I hate to do this. Indiana is not a battleground state. Indiana is one of the most Republican states. It is the one non-battleground state between that whole stretch of Pennsylvania and Ohio and Michigan. He's going there because it's a big event. But if Indiana is a battleground this fall, I'm taking the rest of the year off.

HEMMER: Back to the point, though. You're in Pittsburgh. GREENFIELD: Now you're talking.

HEMMER: You're pulling in a lot of markets in key areas for this race.

GREENFIELD: George W. Bush has visited Pennsylvania more than any other state, except for Texas. Do you think he may be right to take that state away from the Democrats? I think you're dead right on that one.

CAFFERTY: If you're John Kerry, Jeff, do you pick up the phone at some point in this process and call Senator Clinton and kind of fiddle with the idea that maybe -- see if she's interested in being on the ticket? There is no question that she wants to be president of the United States in 2008.

GREENFIELD: I think that this was a complete fantasy on the part of people who are obsessed one way or the other with Hillary. There are people in the Republican Party who see her as Moby Dick, and they're all Ahab. The idea of picking a polarizing figure...

CAFFERTY: That's an interesting description.

GREENFIELD: ... from the safest Democratic big state in the country to run with you, that raises all of these old issues that you don't want raised. And she's a smart cookie. She needs time to separate her own political life from that of her husband's.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

GREENFIELD: I just think this was a fantasy from the very beginning, but it kept people off the streets and gave them employment...

CAFFERTY: It gave them something to do, yes.

HEMMER: Yes, so often, if you look at the history for selecting a running mate, it's a surprise. Joe Lieberman was a surprise in 2000. I think Dick Cheney for the most part was a surprise as well.

GREENFIELD: You bet.

CAFFERTY: Geraldine Ferraro.

HEMMER: Very true, yes, another one as well.

GREENFIELD: This was not.

HEMMER: I don't think this is. It doesn't fall into that category at this point.

GREENFIELD: No. The neat thing about this for me is that it happens twice very -- or once every four years, so there's not that much history.

CAFFERTY: Yes. GREENFIELD: This is a throwback to the idea of uniting a party and giving the power to the hands of the party people. It's much more like Ronald Reagan picking the George W. -- I mean, picking the first George Bush. He finished second. He had a constituency I don't have among more moderate Republicans. That's...

HEMMER: Camp 1996, another shocker at that point.

GREENFIELD: Yes.

HEMMER: Bob Dole going there.

GREENFIELD: Yes.

HEMMER: Listen, hang on a second here. We've got a lot to talk about. We're just getting started, aren't we?

The choice that CNN has confirmed now, John Kerry has selected John Edwards to be his running mate. That announcement should become official in about an hour's time live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Our coverage continues right now here on AMERICAN MORNING.

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