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Pentagon Still Not Confirming Reported Release of U.S. Marine Held Captive in Iraq; Microscope Now on John Edwards' Record

Aired July 07, 2004 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Daryn Kagan. Now in the news, President Bush arrives in North Carolina. And in just a few minutes, we'll meet his judicial nominees from the state. He wants to stir public outcry for congressional action on those nominations.
Mr. Bush's visit comes one day after North Carolinian John Edwards was named to the Democrat's presidential ticket. Also getting under way at any moment, the full Armed Services Committee will open a hearing on Capitol Hill. They are discussing U.S. troop strength in Iraq in light of last week's call-up of nearly 5,700 members of the Individual Ready Reserve.

Less than two hours from now, testimony is due to resume in the murder trial of Scott Peterson. The family of slain wife Laci Peterson left the courtroom yesterday when testimony focused on the discovery of her body and that of the couple's unborn son.

The Trusted Traveler program begins a a tryout today. They're going to try it out at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport. Some frequent fliers have already given their fingerprints, optical scans, which allows hem to bypass the screening on the day of their trips. The pilot program will we expanded over the next few weeks to four other cities.

Keeping you informed, CNN is the most trusted name in news.

The Pentagon is still not confirming the reported release of a U.S. Marine held captive in Iraq. The brother of Corporal Wassef Hassoun told CNN more than 24 hours ago that he is certain that the 24-year-old has been safely released, but he would not provide details.

Our Miguel Marquez is outside the family's home. He is West Jordan, Utah.

Miguel, good morning.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you.

It's a lot of mixed messages over the past few days, which must be put ago lot of anxiety behind closed doors here in the suburbs outside of Salt Lake City. It's another day of waiting for the family of Wassef Ali Hassoun, the 24-year-old Marine Corporal. He was last seen the 19th of June. He was reported missing a week later. The video surfaced of him blindfolded with his captors holding a sword over his head. But yesterday, the family had some good news, his brother, his older brother in Tripoli, Jordan reported -- or Lebanon, reported that he had been contacted and had been given a sign that Hassoun was alive, but his brother would not divulge exactly who he had been contacted by, how he had been contacted or what exactly that sign was.

The Associated Press is also reporting that an anonymous Lebanese government official is sort of backing that story, saying that they have information that Hassoun is indeed alive, but those reports are difficult to sort of get to the bottom of as well.

A group calling itself Islamic Resistance released a statement on Monday, saying that Hassoun had, quote, "been sent to a safe place after he announced his determination not to go back to the U.S. forces." That statement was posted on the Al-Jazeera Web site. But U.S. -- the military on their Pentagon Web site is only saying that they can't say whether or not Hassoun is alive or dead. And today in Salt Lake City, the Interfaith Roundtable will meet to offer prayers and hope for the family that continues to wait -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Any explanation, Miguel, about the secrecy and the confusing lack of information, or the conflicting information in this particular case?

MARQUEZ: Well, in some cases, it's the fact that you have part of the family in Lebanon, part of the family here in Salt Lake City. Also, we've seen this happen so many times with grizzly outcomes. The family doesn't want to say or do anything that would prejudice any chance they have for their relative to survive -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Miguel Marquez in West Jordan, Utah. Miguel, thank you.

Let's get back to the political scene now. The microscope is now on John Edwards' record, and Republicans are making an issue of the military.

Barbara Starr is following that story for us, and she is at the Pentagon.

Barbara, good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Daryn.

Well you know, in the last election, George Bush was perceived as many as the freshman on national security and military issues, Dick Cheney, the veteran on those matters.

But now on the Democratic ticket this time, it appears to be a mirror image.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STARR (voice over): Republicans wasted no time in attacking John Edwards' lack of military experience on a GOP Web site: Who is John Edwards? One criticism: Edwards voted for the war in Iraq, but then last year voted against the $87 billion in funding for post-war Iraq, a move the Republicans say didn't support the troops. Edwards doesn't apologize.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I thought it would be a mistake for me to say to the president, what you're doing is right. I support it. Go forward. Here's your blank check. Come back next year and ask for more money.

STARR: Edwards says President Bush should seek more international support in Iraq to lessen the U.S. presence.

EDWARDS: It's one of the reasons the Iraqis are so hostile toward America right now.

STARR: Edwards has a significant military constituency, and he pays attention to it. North Carolina is home to major installations: Fort Bragg, headquarters of the Elite 82nd Airborne; Camp Lejeune, the East Coast base of the Marine Corps; and, Pope Air Force Base. It's a traditional Republican voter block Edwards knows may be discouraged by long deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan.

MICHAEL O'HANLON, SR. FELLOW, BROOKINGS INSTITUTE: I think the military reaction will be open-minded. I think that's the simplest way to sum it up on this his first day as John Kerry's choice for vice presidential nominee. I think military personnel recognize that Edwards is concerned about their well-being.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: Edwards is also expected to point to several measures he has cosponsored to improve benefits for the troops, but how all of this plays in the fall campaign, of course, remains to be seen -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right, we have several stories kind of converging here that I want to pick your brain on. First of all, this Intelligence Committee report that's coming out supposedly will be very critical of the intelligence community and George Tenet. John Edwards sits on that committee.

STARR: Absolutely, although he is a freshman member, indeed a committee member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. He's been fully briefed, as all committee members are, on the ongoing question of prewar intelligence, also intelligence about the 9/11 attacks. He has been a critic of the Bush administration, about how they handled the al Qaeda intelligence prior to 9/11. Expect to see him on the campaign trail talking very actively about both of those issues.

KAGAN: And then, Barbara, just a few minutes ago, we were showing our viewers a live picture of the Senate Armed Services Committee, the full committee meeting today, talking about troop strength in Iraq, especially in light of the nearly 5,700 members of the Individual Ready Reserve that are being called up. Why in particular is that so important?

STARR: Well, the committee is very interested in hearing about this so-called Individual Ready Reserve. Remember, this is not something that's often been done, and certainly not on the scope that the Pentagon is doing it now, to fill billets, empty slots in Iraq. They are really reaching down deep into their pockets to call upon these people to come back on active duty and go serve in Iraq or Afghanistan.

It's worth remembering, these are people who served at some point in the active duty military, but left before their eight-year obligation was up. So it's all perfectly legal, to be blunt. They still owe or have some time on their initial eight-year obligation in which they are open to the possibility of being called back to active duty, and that's what the Pentagon is doing. But what the Senate wants to know is why. Does it mean they need more troops? Does it mean that the Army and the Marine Corps are too small? Does it mean there just simply aren't enough boots on the ground? Why is the Pentagon taking this very unusual step? Expect to see a lot of tough questioning on that issue -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right, we'll be listening in. Barbara Starr, at the Pentagon, thank you.

To health news, a drug company steps in to help uninsured Americans cover some drug costs. We'll find out who qualifies and how much it might help.

And you're going to have to stick around for this one. You know him as "Elf," and also from "Old School." Well, now he is an anchorman. Comic Will Ferrell joins us to talk about Ron Burgundy, coming up in the next hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MARKET UPDATE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Drug maker Pfizer says it will begin making prescription medicines available to millions of uninsured Americans either at a discount at no cost at all. Our senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta here to explain what is behind that move.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Really interesting. I mean we talk a lot about Internet pharmacies and overseas pharmacies, opening the borders, trying to provide drugs at cheaper cost to uninsured people in American.

Pfizer now, sort of what there own plan -- probably going to set the trend as far as a lot of drug companies go. Sort of interesting. Talk about all the uninsured folks. About 43 million Americans potentially going to benefit from this.

All of the Pfizer drugs possibly being offered at significant savings. Just had a press conference, just finishing up, Daryn, talking about this saying this is not an insurance card, but, rather, a comprehensive plan to try to cut costs for those who cannot afford it. Affordability, accessibility, the two issues at heart. This is going to be their plan. As far as what it's going to do long-term, that still remains to be seen.

KAGAN: So the cynical person in me is asking well, why? What's in it for Pfizer?

GUPTA: Well, you know, it's an interesting question. And I spent a lot of time talking to some our colleagues on the Hill about this.

There has been a lot of talk about actually doing a reimportation law, allowing drugs to be reimported back into the United States at cheaper costs. The Canadian pharmacies have sort of stimulated a lot of this. But this might be a response to that to try to keep that congressional bill from actually passing.

Why? Pharmaceutical companies don't want those drugs coming in at a cheaper cost. They want to be able sell them for what they sell them and control the market. That's the cynical part of it.

The other part of it says, you know, it's sort of a win-win situation. The uninsured will have now access to medications they otherwise would not have had. And Pfizer will be expanding into a new marketplace -- those people who previously did not get these drugs.

I want to give you a little bit of the sense of the numbers as well so you -- you know, there were actually some numbers regarding the some of the popular medications. Lipitor, that's a statin medication for your cholesterol. $79.58 per month before hand. Afterwards, you can take a look at the number there, $52.71. That's a lot or little depending on how you look at it. About 37 percent savings.

For some people, that might make the difference. For others who don't have the money, period, it may not.

KAGAN: Right, if you're making, what, about -- a family of $45,000 a year or less, that was a...

GUPTA: Or $31,000 as an individual.

You know, I should point out as well that 80 percent of those uninsured folks are a part of working families. I think people forget that sometimes. These are people who are working. They just can't afford the insurance on top of that. So it may make a little bit of a difference.

KAGAN: And then finally, where would Pfizer make up the difference? Because you were saying it creates a new market but doesn't that cost then get added on to the people who are insured? Someone has to pay.

GUPTA: Someone has to pay. And it's sort of getting a getting little bit inside (UNINTELLIGIBLE). But I think that, you know, there is a small incremental cost for producing a lot more drugs, relatively speaking.

Lipitor, for example, we were just talking about that, to make another 10, 20 million pills of that, there is a cost involved. But it may be offset by that $52.71 now per month that the person who previously wasn't getting the drug previously will be paying.

So, you know, I don't know how the numbers, how it probably will work out. But, again, I think it's probably going to be a win-win. Pfizer will probably make a little bit of money out of this, and the uninsured folks may get a drug that the otherwise wouldn't have.

KAGAN: get access to that.

GUPTA: Yes.

KAGAN: A big problem out there. Sanjay, thank you.

GUPTA: Thank you.

KAGAN: Buried at the bottom of the sea for some six decades. Real life adventurers risk their lives to solve a World War II mystery.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Showing a live picture. You'll recognize that shot. That is the door of Air Force One. It has just landed in Raleigh, North Carolina. President Bush making a campaign stop there today. They say a coincidence that he is in North Carolina, the day after North Carolina Senator John Edwards was picked to be John Kerry's running mate on the Democratic ticket.

You can probably expect to hear President Bush talk about John Edwards today. He is in a part of a controversy with judicial nominees in the state of North Carolina. Blocking some -- there's President Bush right now. John Edwards blocking some nominations in the confirmation process for some federal judges. The same thing that Jesse Helms did when President Clinton was in office trying to get some other judicial nominees through.

So we will see some coverage of President Bush's trip to North Carolina just ahead. And also hear some remarks.

They came very close. A sunken German U-boat is not supposed to be off the coast of New Jersey, but there it is. U-869 lies 230 feet under the ocean and until a few years ago, no one really even knew it was there. Uncovering its secrets became a dangerous obsession for a small group of daring divers. It's a true story which is now told in the new book "Shadow Divers."

I had a chance to talk with the author, Robert Kurson about the amazing adventure.

So, Robert Kurson, let's go ahead and talk about "Shadow Divers." This is not the story of just a couple of recreational weekend scuba divers. These are some intense, intense diving enthusiasts? ROBERT KURSON, AUTHOR, "SHADOW DIVERS": Yes. This is a culture of insanely brave men tempting the world's most forbidding environments and constantly risking the threat of being flicked into the afterlife at a moment's notice.

KAGAN: The story basically begins in 1991 about 60 miles off the coast of New Jersey. Tell us what was discovered there.

KURSON: Recreational scuba divers, guys who go out on the weekends, found, much to their amazement, a German U-boat completely intact full of a 56-man dead crew where there was not supposed to be any submarine or U-boat within a 100-mile radius of the site. It was a once in a many lifetimes find.

KAGAN: And so, what is created here is this intense drama, people die in continuing this search, marriages break up and incredible relationships are formed.

KURSON: Yes. The two characters at the center of the story, John Shatterton and Ritchie Koler began this drama as bitter enemies. You know, there are blood feuds and decades-long rivalries in the rec diving community. They might have hated each other worse than anyone, but they came together in this quest -- what turned out to be a six- year obsession to solve this mystery that no expert, Navy, historian or government could budge.

KAGAN: Does it ruin the book to tell us whether or not the submarine is still off the coast of the Atlantic there?

KURSON: Yes. It's laying on the bottom of the Atlantic 60 miles off the coast of Point Pleasant, New Jersey, just where it sank in late World War II.

KAGAN: So you come across this story, which we of course should say is a true story. You tell this true-life drama. The reviews on your book have been absolutely phenomenal. This is your first book, right?

KURSON: Yes. I'm thrilled. But I had a sense early on when I met these two guys.

KAGAN: How did you meet them, by the way?

KURSON: I had a friend tell me the details, the rough details of the story which sounded so fantastical that I got on the phone to New Jersey and got the divers on the phone and it wasn't until I met them in person and realized how complex and bright and introspective they were that I knew that I had a story on my hands that would appeal to everybody across the board, not just to fans of adventure or mystery, that this was a true-life adventure that was about men asking very basic questions about who they were as people.

KAGAN: Your background, your writing background is in magazines. Did you think this, at first, was just a good magazine story?

KURSON: I had a sense immediately that this was beyond what any magazine could handle. Basically, this was really a once in a lifetime opportunity; something that, for the divers and then for me as a writer, comes along only, you know, in several decades at best.

KAGAN: I think it's interesting, a parallel in stories here. The story of the book of "Shadow Divers" is of two men perhaps taking things too far and going for their dreams. I was looking on your Web site. You have kind of an interesting story. You took a Harvard law degree, tossed that out the window to go for your own dream to become a writer.

KURSON: Yes, that's very true. I had to pursue what would make me happy. Law was not making me happy, the time seemed to tick backwards on the clock when I was at work.

But I seemed to love writing more than anything, even though I had never done it before and so I did throw everything out the window, including a very expensive Harvard law degree to go pursue this.

And when you meet these two divers, that's what we had in common; that we had to answer something fundamental about who we were and be accountable to ourselves to live life really to the fullest.

KAGAN: Well, it's good to know that you can make a living with a Harvard law degree.

KURSON: Yes.

KAGAN: You have answered that question and, according to the reviews, have told an incredible true to life story. The book is called "Shadow Divers" and Robert Kurson, the author, is our guest.

Congratulations and good luck with the book.

Kuala: Thank you so much for having me.

KAGAN: The story of U-869 was documented in a November 2000 on the "Nova" program, "Hitler's Lost Sub." You can learn more about that on online, www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova.

Also, you can keep an eye on entertainment 24/7 at cnn.com/entertainment. Among the highlights you'll find there today, a review of the new film "King Arthur."

We are back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: It is that time of year, the running of the bulls is under way in Pamplona, Spain. Several people were trampled. First day of the annual weekend long adrenalin rush. No one was seriously hurt. Under the headline of "Why?" I've never quite been able to figure this one out.

(WEATHER BREAK)

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Aired July 7, 2004 - 10:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Daryn Kagan. Now in the news, President Bush arrives in North Carolina. And in just a few minutes, we'll meet his judicial nominees from the state. He wants to stir public outcry for congressional action on those nominations.
Mr. Bush's visit comes one day after North Carolinian John Edwards was named to the Democrat's presidential ticket. Also getting under way at any moment, the full Armed Services Committee will open a hearing on Capitol Hill. They are discussing U.S. troop strength in Iraq in light of last week's call-up of nearly 5,700 members of the Individual Ready Reserve.

Less than two hours from now, testimony is due to resume in the murder trial of Scott Peterson. The family of slain wife Laci Peterson left the courtroom yesterday when testimony focused on the discovery of her body and that of the couple's unborn son.

The Trusted Traveler program begins a a tryout today. They're going to try it out at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport. Some frequent fliers have already given their fingerprints, optical scans, which allows hem to bypass the screening on the day of their trips. The pilot program will we expanded over the next few weeks to four other cities.

Keeping you informed, CNN is the most trusted name in news.

The Pentagon is still not confirming the reported release of a U.S. Marine held captive in Iraq. The brother of Corporal Wassef Hassoun told CNN more than 24 hours ago that he is certain that the 24-year-old has been safely released, but he would not provide details.

Our Miguel Marquez is outside the family's home. He is West Jordan, Utah.

Miguel, good morning.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you.

It's a lot of mixed messages over the past few days, which must be put ago lot of anxiety behind closed doors here in the suburbs outside of Salt Lake City. It's another day of waiting for the family of Wassef Ali Hassoun, the 24-year-old Marine Corporal. He was last seen the 19th of June. He was reported missing a week later. The video surfaced of him blindfolded with his captors holding a sword over his head. But yesterday, the family had some good news, his brother, his older brother in Tripoli, Jordan reported -- or Lebanon, reported that he had been contacted and had been given a sign that Hassoun was alive, but his brother would not divulge exactly who he had been contacted by, how he had been contacted or what exactly that sign was.

The Associated Press is also reporting that an anonymous Lebanese government official is sort of backing that story, saying that they have information that Hassoun is indeed alive, but those reports are difficult to sort of get to the bottom of as well.

A group calling itself Islamic Resistance released a statement on Monday, saying that Hassoun had, quote, "been sent to a safe place after he announced his determination not to go back to the U.S. forces." That statement was posted on the Al-Jazeera Web site. But U.S. -- the military on their Pentagon Web site is only saying that they can't say whether or not Hassoun is alive or dead. And today in Salt Lake City, the Interfaith Roundtable will meet to offer prayers and hope for the family that continues to wait -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Any explanation, Miguel, about the secrecy and the confusing lack of information, or the conflicting information in this particular case?

MARQUEZ: Well, in some cases, it's the fact that you have part of the family in Lebanon, part of the family here in Salt Lake City. Also, we've seen this happen so many times with grizzly outcomes. The family doesn't want to say or do anything that would prejudice any chance they have for their relative to survive -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Miguel Marquez in West Jordan, Utah. Miguel, thank you.

Let's get back to the political scene now. The microscope is now on John Edwards' record, and Republicans are making an issue of the military.

Barbara Starr is following that story for us, and she is at the Pentagon.

Barbara, good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Daryn.

Well you know, in the last election, George Bush was perceived as many as the freshman on national security and military issues, Dick Cheney, the veteran on those matters.

But now on the Democratic ticket this time, it appears to be a mirror image.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STARR (voice over): Republicans wasted no time in attacking John Edwards' lack of military experience on a GOP Web site: Who is John Edwards? One criticism: Edwards voted for the war in Iraq, but then last year voted against the $87 billion in funding for post-war Iraq, a move the Republicans say didn't support the troops. Edwards doesn't apologize.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I thought it would be a mistake for me to say to the president, what you're doing is right. I support it. Go forward. Here's your blank check. Come back next year and ask for more money.

STARR: Edwards says President Bush should seek more international support in Iraq to lessen the U.S. presence.

EDWARDS: It's one of the reasons the Iraqis are so hostile toward America right now.

STARR: Edwards has a significant military constituency, and he pays attention to it. North Carolina is home to major installations: Fort Bragg, headquarters of the Elite 82nd Airborne; Camp Lejeune, the East Coast base of the Marine Corps; and, Pope Air Force Base. It's a traditional Republican voter block Edwards knows may be discouraged by long deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan.

MICHAEL O'HANLON, SR. FELLOW, BROOKINGS INSTITUTE: I think the military reaction will be open-minded. I think that's the simplest way to sum it up on this his first day as John Kerry's choice for vice presidential nominee. I think military personnel recognize that Edwards is concerned about their well-being.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: Edwards is also expected to point to several measures he has cosponsored to improve benefits for the troops, but how all of this plays in the fall campaign, of course, remains to be seen -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right, we have several stories kind of converging here that I want to pick your brain on. First of all, this Intelligence Committee report that's coming out supposedly will be very critical of the intelligence community and George Tenet. John Edwards sits on that committee.

STARR: Absolutely, although he is a freshman member, indeed a committee member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. He's been fully briefed, as all committee members are, on the ongoing question of prewar intelligence, also intelligence about the 9/11 attacks. He has been a critic of the Bush administration, about how they handled the al Qaeda intelligence prior to 9/11. Expect to see him on the campaign trail talking very actively about both of those issues.

KAGAN: And then, Barbara, just a few minutes ago, we were showing our viewers a live picture of the Senate Armed Services Committee, the full committee meeting today, talking about troop strength in Iraq, especially in light of the nearly 5,700 members of the Individual Ready Reserve that are being called up. Why in particular is that so important?

STARR: Well, the committee is very interested in hearing about this so-called Individual Ready Reserve. Remember, this is not something that's often been done, and certainly not on the scope that the Pentagon is doing it now, to fill billets, empty slots in Iraq. They are really reaching down deep into their pockets to call upon these people to come back on active duty and go serve in Iraq or Afghanistan.

It's worth remembering, these are people who served at some point in the active duty military, but left before their eight-year obligation was up. So it's all perfectly legal, to be blunt. They still owe or have some time on their initial eight-year obligation in which they are open to the possibility of being called back to active duty, and that's what the Pentagon is doing. But what the Senate wants to know is why. Does it mean they need more troops? Does it mean that the Army and the Marine Corps are too small? Does it mean there just simply aren't enough boots on the ground? Why is the Pentagon taking this very unusual step? Expect to see a lot of tough questioning on that issue -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right, we'll be listening in. Barbara Starr, at the Pentagon, thank you.

To health news, a drug company steps in to help uninsured Americans cover some drug costs. We'll find out who qualifies and how much it might help.

And you're going to have to stick around for this one. You know him as "Elf," and also from "Old School." Well, now he is an anchorman. Comic Will Ferrell joins us to talk about Ron Burgundy, coming up in the next hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MARKET UPDATE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Drug maker Pfizer says it will begin making prescription medicines available to millions of uninsured Americans either at a discount at no cost at all. Our senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta here to explain what is behind that move.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Really interesting. I mean we talk a lot about Internet pharmacies and overseas pharmacies, opening the borders, trying to provide drugs at cheaper cost to uninsured people in American.

Pfizer now, sort of what there own plan -- probably going to set the trend as far as a lot of drug companies go. Sort of interesting. Talk about all the uninsured folks. About 43 million Americans potentially going to benefit from this.

All of the Pfizer drugs possibly being offered at significant savings. Just had a press conference, just finishing up, Daryn, talking about this saying this is not an insurance card, but, rather, a comprehensive plan to try to cut costs for those who cannot afford it. Affordability, accessibility, the two issues at heart. This is going to be their plan. As far as what it's going to do long-term, that still remains to be seen.

KAGAN: So the cynical person in me is asking well, why? What's in it for Pfizer?

GUPTA: Well, you know, it's an interesting question. And I spent a lot of time talking to some our colleagues on the Hill about this.

There has been a lot of talk about actually doing a reimportation law, allowing drugs to be reimported back into the United States at cheaper costs. The Canadian pharmacies have sort of stimulated a lot of this. But this might be a response to that to try to keep that congressional bill from actually passing.

Why? Pharmaceutical companies don't want those drugs coming in at a cheaper cost. They want to be able sell them for what they sell them and control the market. That's the cynical part of it.

The other part of it says, you know, it's sort of a win-win situation. The uninsured will have now access to medications they otherwise would not have had. And Pfizer will be expanding into a new marketplace -- those people who previously did not get these drugs.

I want to give you a little bit of the sense of the numbers as well so you -- you know, there were actually some numbers regarding the some of the popular medications. Lipitor, that's a statin medication for your cholesterol. $79.58 per month before hand. Afterwards, you can take a look at the number there, $52.71. That's a lot or little depending on how you look at it. About 37 percent savings.

For some people, that might make the difference. For others who don't have the money, period, it may not.

KAGAN: Right, if you're making, what, about -- a family of $45,000 a year or less, that was a...

GUPTA: Or $31,000 as an individual.

You know, I should point out as well that 80 percent of those uninsured folks are a part of working families. I think people forget that sometimes. These are people who are working. They just can't afford the insurance on top of that. So it may make a little bit of a difference.

KAGAN: And then finally, where would Pfizer make up the difference? Because you were saying it creates a new market but doesn't that cost then get added on to the people who are insured? Someone has to pay.

GUPTA: Someone has to pay. And it's sort of getting a getting little bit inside (UNINTELLIGIBLE). But I think that, you know, there is a small incremental cost for producing a lot more drugs, relatively speaking.

Lipitor, for example, we were just talking about that, to make another 10, 20 million pills of that, there is a cost involved. But it may be offset by that $52.71 now per month that the person who previously wasn't getting the drug previously will be paying.

So, you know, I don't know how the numbers, how it probably will work out. But, again, I think it's probably going to be a win-win. Pfizer will probably make a little bit of money out of this, and the uninsured folks may get a drug that the otherwise wouldn't have.

KAGAN: get access to that.

GUPTA: Yes.

KAGAN: A big problem out there. Sanjay, thank you.

GUPTA: Thank you.

KAGAN: Buried at the bottom of the sea for some six decades. Real life adventurers risk their lives to solve a World War II mystery.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Showing a live picture. You'll recognize that shot. That is the door of Air Force One. It has just landed in Raleigh, North Carolina. President Bush making a campaign stop there today. They say a coincidence that he is in North Carolina, the day after North Carolina Senator John Edwards was picked to be John Kerry's running mate on the Democratic ticket.

You can probably expect to hear President Bush talk about John Edwards today. He is in a part of a controversy with judicial nominees in the state of North Carolina. Blocking some -- there's President Bush right now. John Edwards blocking some nominations in the confirmation process for some federal judges. The same thing that Jesse Helms did when President Clinton was in office trying to get some other judicial nominees through.

So we will see some coverage of President Bush's trip to North Carolina just ahead. And also hear some remarks.

They came very close. A sunken German U-boat is not supposed to be off the coast of New Jersey, but there it is. U-869 lies 230 feet under the ocean and until a few years ago, no one really even knew it was there. Uncovering its secrets became a dangerous obsession for a small group of daring divers. It's a true story which is now told in the new book "Shadow Divers."

I had a chance to talk with the author, Robert Kurson about the amazing adventure.

So, Robert Kurson, let's go ahead and talk about "Shadow Divers." This is not the story of just a couple of recreational weekend scuba divers. These are some intense, intense diving enthusiasts? ROBERT KURSON, AUTHOR, "SHADOW DIVERS": Yes. This is a culture of insanely brave men tempting the world's most forbidding environments and constantly risking the threat of being flicked into the afterlife at a moment's notice.

KAGAN: The story basically begins in 1991 about 60 miles off the coast of New Jersey. Tell us what was discovered there.

KURSON: Recreational scuba divers, guys who go out on the weekends, found, much to their amazement, a German U-boat completely intact full of a 56-man dead crew where there was not supposed to be any submarine or U-boat within a 100-mile radius of the site. It was a once in a many lifetimes find.

KAGAN: And so, what is created here is this intense drama, people die in continuing this search, marriages break up and incredible relationships are formed.

KURSON: Yes. The two characters at the center of the story, John Shatterton and Ritchie Koler began this drama as bitter enemies. You know, there are blood feuds and decades-long rivalries in the rec diving community. They might have hated each other worse than anyone, but they came together in this quest -- what turned out to be a six- year obsession to solve this mystery that no expert, Navy, historian or government could budge.

KAGAN: Does it ruin the book to tell us whether or not the submarine is still off the coast of the Atlantic there?

KURSON: Yes. It's laying on the bottom of the Atlantic 60 miles off the coast of Point Pleasant, New Jersey, just where it sank in late World War II.

KAGAN: So you come across this story, which we of course should say is a true story. You tell this true-life drama. The reviews on your book have been absolutely phenomenal. This is your first book, right?

KURSON: Yes. I'm thrilled. But I had a sense early on when I met these two guys.

KAGAN: How did you meet them, by the way?

KURSON: I had a friend tell me the details, the rough details of the story which sounded so fantastical that I got on the phone to New Jersey and got the divers on the phone and it wasn't until I met them in person and realized how complex and bright and introspective they were that I knew that I had a story on my hands that would appeal to everybody across the board, not just to fans of adventure or mystery, that this was a true-life adventure that was about men asking very basic questions about who they were as people.

KAGAN: Your background, your writing background is in magazines. Did you think this, at first, was just a good magazine story?

KURSON: I had a sense immediately that this was beyond what any magazine could handle. Basically, this was really a once in a lifetime opportunity; something that, for the divers and then for me as a writer, comes along only, you know, in several decades at best.

KAGAN: I think it's interesting, a parallel in stories here. The story of the book of "Shadow Divers" is of two men perhaps taking things too far and going for their dreams. I was looking on your Web site. You have kind of an interesting story. You took a Harvard law degree, tossed that out the window to go for your own dream to become a writer.

KURSON: Yes, that's very true. I had to pursue what would make me happy. Law was not making me happy, the time seemed to tick backwards on the clock when I was at work.

But I seemed to love writing more than anything, even though I had never done it before and so I did throw everything out the window, including a very expensive Harvard law degree to go pursue this.

And when you meet these two divers, that's what we had in common; that we had to answer something fundamental about who we were and be accountable to ourselves to live life really to the fullest.

KAGAN: Well, it's good to know that you can make a living with a Harvard law degree.

KURSON: Yes.

KAGAN: You have answered that question and, according to the reviews, have told an incredible true to life story. The book is called "Shadow Divers" and Robert Kurson, the author, is our guest.

Congratulations and good luck with the book.

Kuala: Thank you so much for having me.

KAGAN: The story of U-869 was documented in a November 2000 on the "Nova" program, "Hitler's Lost Sub." You can learn more about that on online, www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova.

Also, you can keep an eye on entertainment 24/7 at cnn.com/entertainment. Among the highlights you'll find there today, a review of the new film "King Arthur."

We are back in a moment.

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KAGAN: It is that time of year, the running of the bulls is under way in Pamplona, Spain. Several people were trampled. First day of the annual weekend long adrenalin rush. No one was seriously hurt. Under the headline of "Why?" I've never quite been able to figure this one out.

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