Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Continuing Fallout From Senate Report That Faulty Intelligence Was Used to Justify Going Iraq War
Aired July 12, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: A scathing Senate report on the CIA and weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. How bad is the fallout for the White House?
The John Edwards strategy for Democrats. How many Southern states would it really take for Edwards to swing the election?
And monster storms on the face of the sun. Earth isn't the only planet feeling the heat.
All of that on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
COOPER: And a good morning to you.
I'm Anderson Cooper.
Bill and Soledad are both off this week.
We also have Heidi Collins here this morning -- good morning.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you.
Good morning, Anderson.
COOPER: And our own Jack Cafferty, as well.
COLLINS: Yes, we've got him, too.
And we this morning...
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks a lot.
COLLINS: ... are going to begin by looking at the Senate report on intelligence failures before the war in Iraq, talking to former chief weapons inspector David Kay about the report in just a few minutes. We'll ask him how big the intelligence mistakes actually were. We'll also ask whether Congress is at all to blame for going along with the CIA.
COOPER: Also, the Scott Peterson trial enters its seventh week today and the most anticipated witness of the trial could be called this week. That would be Peterson's former mistress, Amber Frey. We'll have a preview of that. COLLINS: Also, is your boss a grade A bully? We'll talk to the man who wrote the book on workplace meanies. I can't wait.
COOPER: And Jack's with us.
COLLINS: Yes.
CAFFERTY: He was a guest, actually, on "In The Money" a couple of weeks ago.
COLLINS: Yes, I saw that. Yes.
CAFFERTY: Yes. We'll find out all about those grouches in the corner officer.
Coming up in the "Cafferty File," a true story about a 32-year- old man who is convinced he's a chicken.
COLLINS: OK.
CAFFERTY: And -- I'm not done yet.
COLLINS: All right. There is more?
CAFFERTY: I've got one more.
And we'll tell you how, for a $50 bill, you can get proof positive if, and find out whether your spouse is cheating on you or not. Fifty bucks. They're selling like hotcakes here in Gotham. A thousand a week of these things.
COOPER: Oh, yes?
CAFFERTY: Yes.
COLLINS: Wow!
COOPER: There you go. All right, we'll take a look.
Thanks, Jack.
President Bush heads to a nuclear facility in Tennessee this morning. There he is expected to credit the war with Iraq for persuading Libya to give up nuclear weapons. His visit comes just days after a Senate committee issued a scathing report about prewar intelligence leading up to the war.
Here's White House correspondent Dana Bash.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Had they known then what they know now, even some Republicans say Congress probably would not have given the president the green light for war.
SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R-KS), CHMN. INTEL. CMTE.: The weapons of mass destruction and posing an imminent threat to our national security, that would not have been part of the debate. And I'm not sure the votes would have been there to take that kind of military action.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Each passing day could be the one on which the Iraqi regime gives anthrax or VX nerve gas or some day a nuclear weapon to a terrorist ally.
BASH: In pushing Congress to authorize war, Mr. Bush zeroed in on Iraqi WMD and potential dangers in a post 9/11 world.
Democrats questioned whether the intelligence analysis was so wrong because it was rushed to fit a White House time table for war. And they accuse the president of exaggerating the information he had.
ROCKEFELLER: They weren't paying attention to the intelligence they were getting and going beyond it to try to convince the American people that war was the way to go.
BUSH: The world is better off without Saddam Hussein in power.
BASH: The White House flatly denies misusing intelligence. Aides saying Mr. Bush will continue to defend the war that has come to define his presidency, one a majority of Americans now think was not worth fighting.
The key question now, how to fix a broken intelligence system, an issue sure to get even more intense when the September 11 Commission wraps up its report, which a spokesman tells CNN could now happen as early as this week.
Republicans and Democrats want the president to accelerate intelligence reform. Some saying he should fill the vacancy at the top of the CIA sooner rather than later.
ROBERTS: It'll have to be an extraordinary nominee. If that's the case, we will go full time into the hearings to get him or her confirmed.
BASH: White House aides say an announcement could come as soon as this week.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: The former U.S. chief weapons inspector, David Kay, spent seven months searching in vain for Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. He resigned in January.
He joins us now from Washington to talk about the Senate committee's report on flawed intelligence before the war.
Thanks very much for being with us, David.
Let me ask you, you know, the oft repeated phrase about the CIA is that their job is to speak truth to power, to tell information, give the facts, give the figures no matter what the political implications. What happened?
DAVID KAY, FORMER CHIEF U.S. WEAPONS INSPECTOR IN IRAQ: Well, this report documents pretty directly what happened. There was an abuse of authority at the very top. That is, the director of Central Intelligence, George Tenet, withheld information from other elements of the intelligence community. It's particularly true in the nuke area, but also true with regard to biological weapons, withheld information from policymakers, and, quite frankly, didn't come clean with Congress.
It's a broken culture, a bad tradecraft, no collection that really no human intelligence collection in Iraq at all after '98.
COOPER: You mentioned George Tenet, DCI. But the Pentagon comes in for some criticism in this report, as well. Yet Donald Rumsfeld is not really mentioned by name.
Do you think he should be? I mean it is the Pentagon, Donald Rumsfeld the head of it, in control of a lot of the intelligence budget and also and particularly looking at the technical analysis.
KAY: Well, we have a fragmented intelligence community. In fact, the -- community should not be applied to it. But remember here, we had George Tenet, who repeatedly said I am the leader of the intelligence community, I am the point man, I am responsible. Well, he got his comeuppance here. I think the report held him responsible for it.
COOPER: So, but you didn't say whether or not you thought that Donald Rumsfeld should be held in any way accountable. I mean the DIA knew that this, you know, this source, Curve Ball, who was apparently the source on the bio weapons, was really not reliable.
Again, I put it to you, should Donald Rumsfeld bear some responsibility?
KAY: Well, look, the community didn't work. Information didn't flow from one part to the other. Everyone who's responsible -- and you're right, Anderson, 90 percent of the intelligence budget is controlled by the Pentagon. They certainly need to come in for some responsibility.
The fundamental reform that is necessary is not going to start or stop with the CIA. It's got to look at the entire community. This was a community that was built up in the '50s for the Soviet Union. It faces an entirely different challenge today. It didn't work perfectly against the Soviets. It is not working very well at all against the new targets.
COOPER: OK, you passed on the Rumsfeld question, but I'll let it go.
There's a lot of talk about group think in this report and, also, saying that no evidence of pressure by the administration, political pressure to sort of cook the books, to alter the intelligence. How does group think exist if there's no pressure from the top?
KAY: Group think exists when you're not collecting new intelligence. Group think started with taking the evidence that inspectors like myself and others produced in the early '90s that Iraq had a weapons program and just continuing with it and not challenging it with new data. If you don't collect the dots, you shouldn't be connecting the dots. They were connecting largely non-existent dots with an earlier analysis that, in fact, was true in the '90s, not true in the mid to late '90s.
COOPER: Very briefly, I want to show you something that Senator Jay Rockefeller yesterday said about the Bush administration.
Let's play the clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JAY ROCKEFELLER (D-WV), VICE CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: They were exaggerating intelligence. They were ahead of the intelligence they were getting or they weren't paying attention to the intelligence they were getting and going beyond it to try to convince the American people that war was the way to go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Do you agree with anything he said? Because you had testified before Congress that you had talked to intelligence analysts who said that there really was not pressure, that they were not pushed into changing the intelligence.
KAY: I never met an intelligence analyst involved in Iraq who said that someone came down and said change your conclusion, this is what you have to have. I think what you saw, and it's documented in the report, is the culture that said don't bother telling the policymakers the truth because, in fact, they've already decided to go to war. That, for me, is the result of a broken culture in the agency.
You said, and I think it's very correct, the purpose of an intelligence community is to speak truth to power. If, in fact, you've so lost your courage that you think it's not worthwhile, I think you ought to blame the intelligence community first before you blame the policymakers. We don't know whether they would listen because, in fact, truth was not spoken to power.
COOPER: David Kay, it's good to talk to you.
Thanks for being with us this morning.
KAY: Good to talk to you, Anderson.
COOPER: Heidi.
COLLINS: To Germany now, where U.S. military authorities are still trying to get to the bottom of the case of Marine Corporal Wassef Hassoun.
Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon now this morning with the latest details -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Heidi, good morning to you.
Yet another wrinkle in this very mysterious case. Sources now confirming to CNN that Corporal Wassef Hassoun has told his repatriation team in Germany that he was abducted from his military base near Fallujah, Iraq back around June 20 when he disappeared. He has told them he was abducted from a Marine Corps base, a highly secure facility. That according to what military sources have told CNN.
Now, what they don't know, of course, is the voracity of the statement. That will be subject to very intensive investigation, of course. And they also don't know, Corporal Wassef Hassoun apparently not yet saying how he made his way from Iraq over several days to Lebanon, where he was finally retrieved last week.
So a lot of this still very mysterious because the question facing the Marine Corps is if a Marine was abducted from a base inside Iraq, how exactly that happened -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Yes, Barbara, that is an interesting question. I mean how is that possible? Wouldn't that be a pretty tough thing to do?
STARR: Well, you know, this is exactly going to be the subject of the investigation. Corporal Hassoun, currently in Landstuhl, is talking to his medical and psychological evaluation team, where he apparently has made this statement. He has not yet, we are told, talked to investigators from the Naval Criminal Investigative Service, which are actually looking into this case from an investigative point of view. That is all to come.
We are told Corporal Hassoun may be making a written statement to the world within the next day or so. He will then travel back to Camp Lejeune, his home base. But still, investigators looking into all of this -- Heidi.
COLLINS: All right, very good.
Barbara Starr coming to us from the Pentagon this morning.
Thanks so much, Barbara.
And as Barbara just mentioned, Lieutenant Colonel Sally Harvey is Hassoun's psychologist at Landstuhl Medical Center in Germany.
She's joining us this morning to shed maybe just a little bit of light on how Corporal Hassoun is doing.
In fact, lieutenant colonel, that is exactly the question. I know that you traveled with him from Lebanon to Landstuhl.
How does he seem to be doing? LT. COL. SALLY HARVEY, PSYCHOLOGIST FOR CPL. HASSOUN: Heidi, he is doing quite well, both emotionally and medically.
COLLINS: I know that he was apparently only sleeping like two or three hours a night.
Any indication as to why that was? Are we talking about stress here? Are we talking about just plain not being able to sleep?
HARVEY: Corporal Hassoun had been sleeping only several hours a night. That's what he told us. He has since restored his sleep. He is getting a considerable amount of sleep and eating well. His spirits are good and he is involved in the repatriation process.
COLLINS: That's right.
Can you talk to us a little bit about that, just for people who maybe aren't so familiar with what goes on when you are trying to repatriate?
HARVEY: Certainly. Repatriation is an operational mission. It involves a large number of people, from the intelligence community, from the survival, evasion and resistance and escape community. There's medical folks available. There's a chaplain and there's psychologists.
The goal is to gather the important information that he has, to gather lessons learned from his experience so that we can share that with folks in the field, but most importantly to give him a chance to rest, recuperate, get his head on his shoulders, get his feet on the ground and help him place this experience into perspective.
COLLINS: Basically a debrief then, correct?
HARVEY: Debriefing is a large portion of this, but there is also time for him to rest, to relax, to talk with family and friends.
COLLINS: All right, well, what happens next? Will he be actually heading back to the U.S.? And, if so, when will that happen?
HARVEY: Heidi, the repatriation process at phase two occurs between three and five days. That process is ongoing. It appears that he will be going back to the States, but I don't have a time frame for when that is going to occur yet.
COLLINS: All right, we certainly do appreciate your time and understand fully that details between conversations with you and Corporal Hassoun will remain private.
So, again, we do appreciate your time.
Lieutenant Colonel Sally Harvey, thanks so much.
HARVEY: Thank you, Heidi.
COOPER: In our Campaign Countdown, there are now 113 days until the presidential election on November 2. Mark your calendar.
President Bush will be on the road today, making his tenth trip to Tennessee at Oak Ridge National Lab. He's going to get a look at some of the nuclear weapons parts that were turned over by Libya and he'll talk about the war on terrorism.
Democrats John Kerry and John Edwards are making individual appearances this week. Today, Senator Kerry attends a series of events in Boston. Before the end of the week, Senator Edwards will hit seven states.
And some convention news, as well. Ron Reagan, the youngest son of the former Republican president, will speak in prime time at the Democratic National Convention. He's going to address the need for stem cell research, for which President Bush has limited the use of federal funds, citing moral and ethical concerns.
Lynne Cheney appears to be at odds with her husband, Vice President Dick Cheney, on same-sex marriage. The vice president and President Bush support an amendment to the constitution banning same- sex marriage. Mrs. Cheney professors the position the Republican ticket took four years ago.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LYNNE CHENEY, WIFE OF VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY: I thought that the formulation that he used in 2000 was very good. You know, first of all, to be clear that people should free to enter into the relationships that they choose. And, secondly, to recognize what's historically been the situation, that when it comes to conferring legal status on relationships, that is a matter left to the states. Of course, what's happened is we're in a situation now where the ability of the states to do that has been called into some question by the actions of the court in Massachusetts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Democrats John Kerry and John Edwards also believe gay marriage should be left up to the states. The Senate is debating a constitutional amendment and might vote on it on Wednesday.
COLLINS: An anthrax contaminated building in Florida is finally being cleaned. A crew pumped disinfectant yesterday into the former home of the tabloid paper, "The Sun." A worker died after he was infected with anthrax there in the fall of 2001. Five people died during the scare, as anthrax passed through the mail to several news organizations and the Capitol. No one has been caught.
Well, it is about 15 minutes past the hour.
Time for a look at some of those other news stories with Daryn Kagan -- good morning, Daryn.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Heidi, good morning to you. The possibility of a terror attack prompting discussions of a potential election day delay. It has been discussed within the Bush administration, but a homeland security official says that logistical hurdles would make a delay nearly impossible.
Leaders of the NAACP are upset that President Bush has no plans to attend that group's convention. In his speech last night, the NAACP chairman criticized President Bush for his policies on education, the economy and the war in Iraq. Mr. Bush did speak at the 2000 convention, when he was a candidate. But he has declined invitations after being strongly criticized.
Senator John Kerry is expected to address the group later this week.
The wife of former Enron finance chief Andrew Fastow reports to federal prison today. Lea Fastow is set to serve a year long sentence for a misdemeanor tax crime. She pleaded guilty in May, admitting to helping her husband hide stolen money from the energy giant. Andrew Fastow received a 10 year sentence for conspiracy charges, for cooperating with the Feds.
On a health note, scientists have discovered a gene mutation that apparently contributes to juvenile diabetes. The discovery may improve screening for the disease and it could help better identify children who are at risk. The gene mutation is called SUMO-4. It is one of several that have been identified as contributors to Type 1 Diabetes. The study was published in the journal "Nature Genetics."
And perhaps the most dangerous of the bull runs so far. Ouch. Pamplona, Spain. Eight people, including an American, were gored today. This is the sixth day of the yearly event. Nearly 50 runners have been injured since the running of the bulls started last week. The festival ends this Wednesday. None too soon for some of those people there, especially the bulls -- Heidi, back to you.
COLLINS: Yes. Definitely the bulls.
KAGAN: Yes.
COLLINS: And me, not that the bulls care, but.
KAGAN: You know, I wonder, why don't you ask Anderson, the world traveler, I would almost bet that that is something that he has tried. COLLINS: Oh. Anderson?
COOPER: Not, it is not. I don't take ridiculous risks, only, you know, things that seem appropriate. Running in front of bulls, to me, frankly, you know, doesn't work.
COLLINS: No.
KAGAN: Only dangerous countries.
OK.
Thank you.
See you guys in a bit.
COLLINS: Thanks, Daryn.
Well, it is the scourge of the modern workplace. We're talking about bosses who bully. And if you've had one, you know just how bad it can be.
Gary Namie is director of the Workplace Bullying and Trauma Institute, also the author of "The Bully At Work: What You Can Do To Stop the Hurt and Reclaim Your Dignity On the Job."
Mr. Namie, thanks for being with us this morning.
GARY NAMIE, WORKPLACE BULLYING AND TRAUMA INSTITUTE: Thank you, Heidi.
COLLINS: You know, some people may not realize it, you say actually one in six people on the job are bullies.
NAMIE: That's right.
COLLINS: That seems to be a huge number.
NAMIE: It is a huge number and we call it the silent epidemic. We -- everyone knows a bully story, either through direct experience and maybe one degree of separation. If it wasn't them, then they know somebody who had it happen. But we don't talk about it enough.
COLLINS: How do they get away with it?
NAMIE: Oh, they get promoted. They get promoted to where they're actually immune. They can do this with impunity. They, it's just all there is. We love aggression and people climb the ladder and they do it over everyone else.
COLLINS: That's incredibly frightening.
You have come up with four types of bullies, though. I want to quickly run through that list.
The first one being the snake. Tell us about that.
NAMIE: The snake, oh, Jekyll and Hyde, back stabbing, duplicitous, one who hugs you and loves you and tells you that to your face but is out to destroy your reputation in the rest of the organization.
COLLINS: Thanks.
The screamer?
NAMIE: The screamer...
COLLINS: It seems obvious. NAMIE: Well, but -- and that's not a poster boy or a girl, that's the and, don't forget, 58 percent of bullies are women. So it's the Bobby Knight syndrome. It's the yelling, screaming, fist pounding, vein bulging maniac. And they're trying to control the emotions of the place and instill fear.
COLLINS: I bet they do it, too.
The nitpicker.
NAMIE: Well, the nitpicker is a constant critic. They get you behind closed doors and they erode your confidence and your competence. You've got a long career, a stellar career, and suddenly you get a new boss and they're going to try and convince you you're stupid. Outrageous as it sounds, but potentially traumatizing.
COLLINS: Oh, I'm sure.
And the gate keeper?
NAMIE: The gate keeper is the controlling person who messes with your schedule, denies you vacation time, gives you that horrible task assignment. They control you by withholding the things you need to succeed.
COLLINS: Well, when you look at this list, I mean I'm sure everybody has maybe recognized some of those characteristics in bosses that they've had over the years. But who is it that the bullies are likely to pick on most?
NAMIE: Different than the playground, Heidi. In the playground, it's a vulnerable kid with the Coke bottle glasses. In adulthood, it's a strong, independent person who's technically skilled and refuses to be subservient. And so there's a push and shoving match going on -- I must control you, no you won't. And they're very threatened. The bullies are very threatened by those types of individuals.
So it's a strong worker, actually.
COLLINS: OK. And you quickly mentioned women. Women are bullies, too?
NAMIE: Absolutely. Half of all bullying is women on women.
COLLINS: All right. So now that we have seen all of this, we recognize it, OK, maybe my boss really is a bully. What do you do? Do you just go to H.R.? Do you keep a file? Do you keep notes on different, you know, occurrences that have happened? What can you do?
NAMIE: Document if you want, but who's going to read the notes? And, no, you don't go to H.R.., I'm sorry to say. You've got to go high up the ladder, three steps. Easy to say, incredibly hard to do.
Naming it is powerful and it's a first step to making it legitimate so you don't blame yourself. Call it bullying, call it psychological harassment.
Step two, get time off from work and while you're off, what you've got to do is check your legal options, check your health and start building the case. Gather some data.
For step three, which is expose the bully, go bully busting, you've got to go as high up as you can, not H.R., and make the business case the bully's too expensive to keep. And you've got to show the turnover and every, all the other incidental things that the bully causes in terms of disruption, absenteeism, lost productivity. And if that company doesn't want to listen to you, you get out for your health's sake.
COLLINS: Time to move out.
All right.
NAMIE: You've got to.
COLLINS: Gary Namie, we certainly appreciate your time this morning.
NAMIE: Thank you, Heidi.
COLLINS: Thanks so much -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, let's check back on some weather.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COLLINS: Still to come, it's love CSI style. The "Cafferty File" coming up, though he has no idea what CSI is. That's OK.
COOPER: I'm intrigued.
Also ahead, it looks like a war scene, but it's in Massachusetts. We'll explain.
COLLINS: Plus, the Halloween sun storm. It sounds like a sci- fi, huh? But it's the real deal. We'll talk about it ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Time to check in with Jack now and the "Cafferty File," my favorite.
CAFFERTY: You no longer, Heidi, have to hire an expensive detective agency to find out if your significant other is considering you to be less significant. For 50 bucks, you can buy something called a CheckMate Five Minute Test Kit. This is a kit that contains a chemical that reveals whether suspicious stains on clothing or sheets are ice cream or something more sinister. Here in...
COOPER: Oye.
CAFFERTY: Here in New York, where infidelity has been known to occur, the kits are selling at the rate of 1,000 a week.
Keeping with the high standards that are the "Cafferty File," we bring you the story of a man who is convinced he is a chicken. A -- this is not funny.
COLLINS: I'm sorry.
CAFFERTY: That's why they won't -- they'll laugh anyway. No, this is a very serious story about a poor guy in Fiji. Officials don't know what to do with him. When he was a child, his parents died and his grandfather locked him in a chicken coop.
COOPER: God.
CAFFERTY: This is not funny.
COOPER: It's not. It's horrible.
CAFFERTY: This is a sad story.
COOPER: It's horrible.
CAFFERTY: He had little contact with humans and instead adopted the habits of the chickens.
COOPER: Oh, come on.
CAFFERTY: He's in a rehab center now. Officials say when he first got there, he insisted on sitting on a perch, picked at his food like a chicken.
COLLINS: Like a chicken.
CAFFERTY: But they say he's getting better now.
And finally, let's hear it for Air France. Well, it's a funny story. I mean, I, you know...
COLLINS: I didn't know they had...
CAFFERTY: And he thinks he's a chicken, so even if he sees this, he won't know what the hell we're talking about.
Passengers -- let's hear it for Air France -- passengers on a flight to Chicago were forced by bad weather to land in Milwaukee nine o'clock Friday night. The only gate of Milwaukee airport capable of handling this sized airplane that United had these people on was occupied by a cargo jet operated by Air France. The people on the plane spent all night on the airplane. United gave them pretzels and water. And then at five in the morning, they got a portable staircase to finally release these people from the plane. Then they were put on a bus and driven to Chicago.
The reason for all of this? The Air France crew refused to move the cargo plane because they would have exceeded the number of hours they are allowed to work. You've got to love them French people, huh? They are my favorite.
COLLINS: I...
CAFFERTY: Did I tell you about the guy who thinks he's a chicken?
COLLINS: Yes.
CAFFERTY: He lives in Fiji.
COLLINS: Still, though, did you know they had chicken rehab? I didn't know that. I mean he went into rehab and they actually knew what to do with him.
CAFFERTY: By coming in here at the early hour that we do each day, we all tend to learn things and broaden our horizons.
COOPER: I'll tell you, it's a 12 peck program.
COLLINS: Yes.
COOPER: Still to come, the latest on the Scott Peterson trial. Find out why experts say the prosecution just might have scored some points with photos of a pregnant woman who wasn't Laci Peterson.
Stay with us for that on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired July 12, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: A scathing Senate report on the CIA and weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. How bad is the fallout for the White House?
The John Edwards strategy for Democrats. How many Southern states would it really take for Edwards to swing the election?
And monster storms on the face of the sun. Earth isn't the only planet feeling the heat.
All of that on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
COOPER: And a good morning to you.
I'm Anderson Cooper.
Bill and Soledad are both off this week.
We also have Heidi Collins here this morning -- good morning.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you.
Good morning, Anderson.
COOPER: And our own Jack Cafferty, as well.
COLLINS: Yes, we've got him, too.
And we this morning...
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks a lot.
COLLINS: ... are going to begin by looking at the Senate report on intelligence failures before the war in Iraq, talking to former chief weapons inspector David Kay about the report in just a few minutes. We'll ask him how big the intelligence mistakes actually were. We'll also ask whether Congress is at all to blame for going along with the CIA.
COOPER: Also, the Scott Peterson trial enters its seventh week today and the most anticipated witness of the trial could be called this week. That would be Peterson's former mistress, Amber Frey. We'll have a preview of that. COLLINS: Also, is your boss a grade A bully? We'll talk to the man who wrote the book on workplace meanies. I can't wait.
COOPER: And Jack's with us.
COLLINS: Yes.
CAFFERTY: He was a guest, actually, on "In The Money" a couple of weeks ago.
COLLINS: Yes, I saw that. Yes.
CAFFERTY: Yes. We'll find out all about those grouches in the corner officer.
Coming up in the "Cafferty File," a true story about a 32-year- old man who is convinced he's a chicken.
COLLINS: OK.
CAFFERTY: And -- I'm not done yet.
COLLINS: All right. There is more?
CAFFERTY: I've got one more.
And we'll tell you how, for a $50 bill, you can get proof positive if, and find out whether your spouse is cheating on you or not. Fifty bucks. They're selling like hotcakes here in Gotham. A thousand a week of these things.
COOPER: Oh, yes?
CAFFERTY: Yes.
COLLINS: Wow!
COOPER: There you go. All right, we'll take a look.
Thanks, Jack.
President Bush heads to a nuclear facility in Tennessee this morning. There he is expected to credit the war with Iraq for persuading Libya to give up nuclear weapons. His visit comes just days after a Senate committee issued a scathing report about prewar intelligence leading up to the war.
Here's White House correspondent Dana Bash.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Had they known then what they know now, even some Republicans say Congress probably would not have given the president the green light for war.
SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R-KS), CHMN. INTEL. CMTE.: The weapons of mass destruction and posing an imminent threat to our national security, that would not have been part of the debate. And I'm not sure the votes would have been there to take that kind of military action.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Each passing day could be the one on which the Iraqi regime gives anthrax or VX nerve gas or some day a nuclear weapon to a terrorist ally.
BASH: In pushing Congress to authorize war, Mr. Bush zeroed in on Iraqi WMD and potential dangers in a post 9/11 world.
Democrats questioned whether the intelligence analysis was so wrong because it was rushed to fit a White House time table for war. And they accuse the president of exaggerating the information he had.
ROCKEFELLER: They weren't paying attention to the intelligence they were getting and going beyond it to try to convince the American people that war was the way to go.
BUSH: The world is better off without Saddam Hussein in power.
BASH: The White House flatly denies misusing intelligence. Aides saying Mr. Bush will continue to defend the war that has come to define his presidency, one a majority of Americans now think was not worth fighting.
The key question now, how to fix a broken intelligence system, an issue sure to get even more intense when the September 11 Commission wraps up its report, which a spokesman tells CNN could now happen as early as this week.
Republicans and Democrats want the president to accelerate intelligence reform. Some saying he should fill the vacancy at the top of the CIA sooner rather than later.
ROBERTS: It'll have to be an extraordinary nominee. If that's the case, we will go full time into the hearings to get him or her confirmed.
BASH: White House aides say an announcement could come as soon as this week.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: The former U.S. chief weapons inspector, David Kay, spent seven months searching in vain for Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. He resigned in January.
He joins us now from Washington to talk about the Senate committee's report on flawed intelligence before the war.
Thanks very much for being with us, David.
Let me ask you, you know, the oft repeated phrase about the CIA is that their job is to speak truth to power, to tell information, give the facts, give the figures no matter what the political implications. What happened?
DAVID KAY, FORMER CHIEF U.S. WEAPONS INSPECTOR IN IRAQ: Well, this report documents pretty directly what happened. There was an abuse of authority at the very top. That is, the director of Central Intelligence, George Tenet, withheld information from other elements of the intelligence community. It's particularly true in the nuke area, but also true with regard to biological weapons, withheld information from policymakers, and, quite frankly, didn't come clean with Congress.
It's a broken culture, a bad tradecraft, no collection that really no human intelligence collection in Iraq at all after '98.
COOPER: You mentioned George Tenet, DCI. But the Pentagon comes in for some criticism in this report, as well. Yet Donald Rumsfeld is not really mentioned by name.
Do you think he should be? I mean it is the Pentagon, Donald Rumsfeld the head of it, in control of a lot of the intelligence budget and also and particularly looking at the technical analysis.
KAY: Well, we have a fragmented intelligence community. In fact, the -- community should not be applied to it. But remember here, we had George Tenet, who repeatedly said I am the leader of the intelligence community, I am the point man, I am responsible. Well, he got his comeuppance here. I think the report held him responsible for it.
COOPER: So, but you didn't say whether or not you thought that Donald Rumsfeld should be held in any way accountable. I mean the DIA knew that this, you know, this source, Curve Ball, who was apparently the source on the bio weapons, was really not reliable.
Again, I put it to you, should Donald Rumsfeld bear some responsibility?
KAY: Well, look, the community didn't work. Information didn't flow from one part to the other. Everyone who's responsible -- and you're right, Anderson, 90 percent of the intelligence budget is controlled by the Pentagon. They certainly need to come in for some responsibility.
The fundamental reform that is necessary is not going to start or stop with the CIA. It's got to look at the entire community. This was a community that was built up in the '50s for the Soviet Union. It faces an entirely different challenge today. It didn't work perfectly against the Soviets. It is not working very well at all against the new targets.
COOPER: OK, you passed on the Rumsfeld question, but I'll let it go.
There's a lot of talk about group think in this report and, also, saying that no evidence of pressure by the administration, political pressure to sort of cook the books, to alter the intelligence. How does group think exist if there's no pressure from the top?
KAY: Group think exists when you're not collecting new intelligence. Group think started with taking the evidence that inspectors like myself and others produced in the early '90s that Iraq had a weapons program and just continuing with it and not challenging it with new data. If you don't collect the dots, you shouldn't be connecting the dots. They were connecting largely non-existent dots with an earlier analysis that, in fact, was true in the '90s, not true in the mid to late '90s.
COOPER: Very briefly, I want to show you something that Senator Jay Rockefeller yesterday said about the Bush administration.
Let's play the clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JAY ROCKEFELLER (D-WV), VICE CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: They were exaggerating intelligence. They were ahead of the intelligence they were getting or they weren't paying attention to the intelligence they were getting and going beyond it to try to convince the American people that war was the way to go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Do you agree with anything he said? Because you had testified before Congress that you had talked to intelligence analysts who said that there really was not pressure, that they were not pushed into changing the intelligence.
KAY: I never met an intelligence analyst involved in Iraq who said that someone came down and said change your conclusion, this is what you have to have. I think what you saw, and it's documented in the report, is the culture that said don't bother telling the policymakers the truth because, in fact, they've already decided to go to war. That, for me, is the result of a broken culture in the agency.
You said, and I think it's very correct, the purpose of an intelligence community is to speak truth to power. If, in fact, you've so lost your courage that you think it's not worthwhile, I think you ought to blame the intelligence community first before you blame the policymakers. We don't know whether they would listen because, in fact, truth was not spoken to power.
COOPER: David Kay, it's good to talk to you.
Thanks for being with us this morning.
KAY: Good to talk to you, Anderson.
COOPER: Heidi.
COLLINS: To Germany now, where U.S. military authorities are still trying to get to the bottom of the case of Marine Corporal Wassef Hassoun.
Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon now this morning with the latest details -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Heidi, good morning to you.
Yet another wrinkle in this very mysterious case. Sources now confirming to CNN that Corporal Wassef Hassoun has told his repatriation team in Germany that he was abducted from his military base near Fallujah, Iraq back around June 20 when he disappeared. He has told them he was abducted from a Marine Corps base, a highly secure facility. That according to what military sources have told CNN.
Now, what they don't know, of course, is the voracity of the statement. That will be subject to very intensive investigation, of course. And they also don't know, Corporal Wassef Hassoun apparently not yet saying how he made his way from Iraq over several days to Lebanon, where he was finally retrieved last week.
So a lot of this still very mysterious because the question facing the Marine Corps is if a Marine was abducted from a base inside Iraq, how exactly that happened -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Yes, Barbara, that is an interesting question. I mean how is that possible? Wouldn't that be a pretty tough thing to do?
STARR: Well, you know, this is exactly going to be the subject of the investigation. Corporal Hassoun, currently in Landstuhl, is talking to his medical and psychological evaluation team, where he apparently has made this statement. He has not yet, we are told, talked to investigators from the Naval Criminal Investigative Service, which are actually looking into this case from an investigative point of view. That is all to come.
We are told Corporal Hassoun may be making a written statement to the world within the next day or so. He will then travel back to Camp Lejeune, his home base. But still, investigators looking into all of this -- Heidi.
COLLINS: All right, very good.
Barbara Starr coming to us from the Pentagon this morning.
Thanks so much, Barbara.
And as Barbara just mentioned, Lieutenant Colonel Sally Harvey is Hassoun's psychologist at Landstuhl Medical Center in Germany.
She's joining us this morning to shed maybe just a little bit of light on how Corporal Hassoun is doing.
In fact, lieutenant colonel, that is exactly the question. I know that you traveled with him from Lebanon to Landstuhl.
How does he seem to be doing? LT. COL. SALLY HARVEY, PSYCHOLOGIST FOR CPL. HASSOUN: Heidi, he is doing quite well, both emotionally and medically.
COLLINS: I know that he was apparently only sleeping like two or three hours a night.
Any indication as to why that was? Are we talking about stress here? Are we talking about just plain not being able to sleep?
HARVEY: Corporal Hassoun had been sleeping only several hours a night. That's what he told us. He has since restored his sleep. He is getting a considerable amount of sleep and eating well. His spirits are good and he is involved in the repatriation process.
COLLINS: That's right.
Can you talk to us a little bit about that, just for people who maybe aren't so familiar with what goes on when you are trying to repatriate?
HARVEY: Certainly. Repatriation is an operational mission. It involves a large number of people, from the intelligence community, from the survival, evasion and resistance and escape community. There's medical folks available. There's a chaplain and there's psychologists.
The goal is to gather the important information that he has, to gather lessons learned from his experience so that we can share that with folks in the field, but most importantly to give him a chance to rest, recuperate, get his head on his shoulders, get his feet on the ground and help him place this experience into perspective.
COLLINS: Basically a debrief then, correct?
HARVEY: Debriefing is a large portion of this, but there is also time for him to rest, to relax, to talk with family and friends.
COLLINS: All right, well, what happens next? Will he be actually heading back to the U.S.? And, if so, when will that happen?
HARVEY: Heidi, the repatriation process at phase two occurs between three and five days. That process is ongoing. It appears that he will be going back to the States, but I don't have a time frame for when that is going to occur yet.
COLLINS: All right, we certainly do appreciate your time and understand fully that details between conversations with you and Corporal Hassoun will remain private.
So, again, we do appreciate your time.
Lieutenant Colonel Sally Harvey, thanks so much.
HARVEY: Thank you, Heidi.
COOPER: In our Campaign Countdown, there are now 113 days until the presidential election on November 2. Mark your calendar.
President Bush will be on the road today, making his tenth trip to Tennessee at Oak Ridge National Lab. He's going to get a look at some of the nuclear weapons parts that were turned over by Libya and he'll talk about the war on terrorism.
Democrats John Kerry and John Edwards are making individual appearances this week. Today, Senator Kerry attends a series of events in Boston. Before the end of the week, Senator Edwards will hit seven states.
And some convention news, as well. Ron Reagan, the youngest son of the former Republican president, will speak in prime time at the Democratic National Convention. He's going to address the need for stem cell research, for which President Bush has limited the use of federal funds, citing moral and ethical concerns.
Lynne Cheney appears to be at odds with her husband, Vice President Dick Cheney, on same-sex marriage. The vice president and President Bush support an amendment to the constitution banning same- sex marriage. Mrs. Cheney professors the position the Republican ticket took four years ago.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LYNNE CHENEY, WIFE OF VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY: I thought that the formulation that he used in 2000 was very good. You know, first of all, to be clear that people should free to enter into the relationships that they choose. And, secondly, to recognize what's historically been the situation, that when it comes to conferring legal status on relationships, that is a matter left to the states. Of course, what's happened is we're in a situation now where the ability of the states to do that has been called into some question by the actions of the court in Massachusetts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Democrats John Kerry and John Edwards also believe gay marriage should be left up to the states. The Senate is debating a constitutional amendment and might vote on it on Wednesday.
COLLINS: An anthrax contaminated building in Florida is finally being cleaned. A crew pumped disinfectant yesterday into the former home of the tabloid paper, "The Sun." A worker died after he was infected with anthrax there in the fall of 2001. Five people died during the scare, as anthrax passed through the mail to several news organizations and the Capitol. No one has been caught.
Well, it is about 15 minutes past the hour.
Time for a look at some of those other news stories with Daryn Kagan -- good morning, Daryn.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Heidi, good morning to you. The possibility of a terror attack prompting discussions of a potential election day delay. It has been discussed within the Bush administration, but a homeland security official says that logistical hurdles would make a delay nearly impossible.
Leaders of the NAACP are upset that President Bush has no plans to attend that group's convention. In his speech last night, the NAACP chairman criticized President Bush for his policies on education, the economy and the war in Iraq. Mr. Bush did speak at the 2000 convention, when he was a candidate. But he has declined invitations after being strongly criticized.
Senator John Kerry is expected to address the group later this week.
The wife of former Enron finance chief Andrew Fastow reports to federal prison today. Lea Fastow is set to serve a year long sentence for a misdemeanor tax crime. She pleaded guilty in May, admitting to helping her husband hide stolen money from the energy giant. Andrew Fastow received a 10 year sentence for conspiracy charges, for cooperating with the Feds.
On a health note, scientists have discovered a gene mutation that apparently contributes to juvenile diabetes. The discovery may improve screening for the disease and it could help better identify children who are at risk. The gene mutation is called SUMO-4. It is one of several that have been identified as contributors to Type 1 Diabetes. The study was published in the journal "Nature Genetics."
And perhaps the most dangerous of the bull runs so far. Ouch. Pamplona, Spain. Eight people, including an American, were gored today. This is the sixth day of the yearly event. Nearly 50 runners have been injured since the running of the bulls started last week. The festival ends this Wednesday. None too soon for some of those people there, especially the bulls -- Heidi, back to you.
COLLINS: Yes. Definitely the bulls.
KAGAN: Yes.
COLLINS: And me, not that the bulls care, but.
KAGAN: You know, I wonder, why don't you ask Anderson, the world traveler, I would almost bet that that is something that he has tried. COLLINS: Oh. Anderson?
COOPER: Not, it is not. I don't take ridiculous risks, only, you know, things that seem appropriate. Running in front of bulls, to me, frankly, you know, doesn't work.
COLLINS: No.
KAGAN: Only dangerous countries.
OK.
Thank you.
See you guys in a bit.
COLLINS: Thanks, Daryn.
Well, it is the scourge of the modern workplace. We're talking about bosses who bully. And if you've had one, you know just how bad it can be.
Gary Namie is director of the Workplace Bullying and Trauma Institute, also the author of "The Bully At Work: What You Can Do To Stop the Hurt and Reclaim Your Dignity On the Job."
Mr. Namie, thanks for being with us this morning.
GARY NAMIE, WORKPLACE BULLYING AND TRAUMA INSTITUTE: Thank you, Heidi.
COLLINS: You know, some people may not realize it, you say actually one in six people on the job are bullies.
NAMIE: That's right.
COLLINS: That seems to be a huge number.
NAMIE: It is a huge number and we call it the silent epidemic. We -- everyone knows a bully story, either through direct experience and maybe one degree of separation. If it wasn't them, then they know somebody who had it happen. But we don't talk about it enough.
COLLINS: How do they get away with it?
NAMIE: Oh, they get promoted. They get promoted to where they're actually immune. They can do this with impunity. They, it's just all there is. We love aggression and people climb the ladder and they do it over everyone else.
COLLINS: That's incredibly frightening.
You have come up with four types of bullies, though. I want to quickly run through that list.
The first one being the snake. Tell us about that.
NAMIE: The snake, oh, Jekyll and Hyde, back stabbing, duplicitous, one who hugs you and loves you and tells you that to your face but is out to destroy your reputation in the rest of the organization.
COLLINS: Thanks.
The screamer?
NAMIE: The screamer...
COLLINS: It seems obvious. NAMIE: Well, but -- and that's not a poster boy or a girl, that's the and, don't forget, 58 percent of bullies are women. So it's the Bobby Knight syndrome. It's the yelling, screaming, fist pounding, vein bulging maniac. And they're trying to control the emotions of the place and instill fear.
COLLINS: I bet they do it, too.
The nitpicker.
NAMIE: Well, the nitpicker is a constant critic. They get you behind closed doors and they erode your confidence and your competence. You've got a long career, a stellar career, and suddenly you get a new boss and they're going to try and convince you you're stupid. Outrageous as it sounds, but potentially traumatizing.
COLLINS: Oh, I'm sure.
And the gate keeper?
NAMIE: The gate keeper is the controlling person who messes with your schedule, denies you vacation time, gives you that horrible task assignment. They control you by withholding the things you need to succeed.
COLLINS: Well, when you look at this list, I mean I'm sure everybody has maybe recognized some of those characteristics in bosses that they've had over the years. But who is it that the bullies are likely to pick on most?
NAMIE: Different than the playground, Heidi. In the playground, it's a vulnerable kid with the Coke bottle glasses. In adulthood, it's a strong, independent person who's technically skilled and refuses to be subservient. And so there's a push and shoving match going on -- I must control you, no you won't. And they're very threatened. The bullies are very threatened by those types of individuals.
So it's a strong worker, actually.
COLLINS: OK. And you quickly mentioned women. Women are bullies, too?
NAMIE: Absolutely. Half of all bullying is women on women.
COLLINS: All right. So now that we have seen all of this, we recognize it, OK, maybe my boss really is a bully. What do you do? Do you just go to H.R.? Do you keep a file? Do you keep notes on different, you know, occurrences that have happened? What can you do?
NAMIE: Document if you want, but who's going to read the notes? And, no, you don't go to H.R.., I'm sorry to say. You've got to go high up the ladder, three steps. Easy to say, incredibly hard to do.
Naming it is powerful and it's a first step to making it legitimate so you don't blame yourself. Call it bullying, call it psychological harassment.
Step two, get time off from work and while you're off, what you've got to do is check your legal options, check your health and start building the case. Gather some data.
For step three, which is expose the bully, go bully busting, you've got to go as high up as you can, not H.R., and make the business case the bully's too expensive to keep. And you've got to show the turnover and every, all the other incidental things that the bully causes in terms of disruption, absenteeism, lost productivity. And if that company doesn't want to listen to you, you get out for your health's sake.
COLLINS: Time to move out.
All right.
NAMIE: You've got to.
COLLINS: Gary Namie, we certainly appreciate your time this morning.
NAMIE: Thank you, Heidi.
COLLINS: Thanks so much -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, let's check back on some weather.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COLLINS: Still to come, it's love CSI style. The "Cafferty File" coming up, though he has no idea what CSI is. That's OK.
COOPER: I'm intrigued.
Also ahead, it looks like a war scene, but it's in Massachusetts. We'll explain.
COLLINS: Plus, the Halloween sun storm. It sounds like a sci- fi, huh? But it's the real deal. We'll talk about it ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Time to check in with Jack now and the "Cafferty File," my favorite.
CAFFERTY: You no longer, Heidi, have to hire an expensive detective agency to find out if your significant other is considering you to be less significant. For 50 bucks, you can buy something called a CheckMate Five Minute Test Kit. This is a kit that contains a chemical that reveals whether suspicious stains on clothing or sheets are ice cream or something more sinister. Here in...
COOPER: Oye.
CAFFERTY: Here in New York, where infidelity has been known to occur, the kits are selling at the rate of 1,000 a week.
Keeping with the high standards that are the "Cafferty File," we bring you the story of a man who is convinced he is a chicken. A -- this is not funny.
COLLINS: I'm sorry.
CAFFERTY: That's why they won't -- they'll laugh anyway. No, this is a very serious story about a poor guy in Fiji. Officials don't know what to do with him. When he was a child, his parents died and his grandfather locked him in a chicken coop.
COOPER: God.
CAFFERTY: This is not funny.
COOPER: It's not. It's horrible.
CAFFERTY: This is a sad story.
COOPER: It's horrible.
CAFFERTY: He had little contact with humans and instead adopted the habits of the chickens.
COOPER: Oh, come on.
CAFFERTY: He's in a rehab center now. Officials say when he first got there, he insisted on sitting on a perch, picked at his food like a chicken.
COLLINS: Like a chicken.
CAFFERTY: But they say he's getting better now.
And finally, let's hear it for Air France. Well, it's a funny story. I mean, I, you know...
COLLINS: I didn't know they had...
CAFFERTY: And he thinks he's a chicken, so even if he sees this, he won't know what the hell we're talking about.
Passengers -- let's hear it for Air France -- passengers on a flight to Chicago were forced by bad weather to land in Milwaukee nine o'clock Friday night. The only gate of Milwaukee airport capable of handling this sized airplane that United had these people on was occupied by a cargo jet operated by Air France. The people on the plane spent all night on the airplane. United gave them pretzels and water. And then at five in the morning, they got a portable staircase to finally release these people from the plane. Then they were put on a bus and driven to Chicago.
The reason for all of this? The Air France crew refused to move the cargo plane because they would have exceeded the number of hours they are allowed to work. You've got to love them French people, huh? They are my favorite.
COLLINS: I...
CAFFERTY: Did I tell you about the guy who thinks he's a chicken?
COLLINS: Yes.
CAFFERTY: He lives in Fiji.
COLLINS: Still, though, did you know they had chicken rehab? I didn't know that. I mean he went into rehab and they actually knew what to do with him.
CAFFERTY: By coming in here at the early hour that we do each day, we all tend to learn things and broaden our horizons.
COOPER: I'll tell you, it's a 12 peck program.
COLLINS: Yes.
COOPER: Still to come, the latest on the Scott Peterson trial. Find out why experts say the prosecution just might have scored some points with photos of a pregnant woman who wasn't Laci Peterson.
Stay with us for that on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
