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Criticism Leveled at British Intelligence; So What Does Al- Harbi's Surrender Mean for War on Terror?

Aired July 14, 2004 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: In the Tour de France, the 10th stage ended just moments ago with France's Richard Verinque as the winner. France's Thomas Voeckler retained the yellow jersey as the overall leader.
It is 11 a.m. on Capitol Hill, 4 p.m. in London. We are at CNN Global Headquarters in Atlanta.

Good morning, once again. I am Daryn Kagan.

Our top story this hour -- seriously flawed intelligence leading to war with Iraq. This time that criticism is leveled at British intelligence.

Our Diana Muriel is outside Number 10 Downing Street in London with more on the Butler report. Good morning.

DIANA MURIEL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

Well the prime minister Tony Blair has just got back into Downing Street in the past hour. He's been responding to the Butler commission, which has taken six months in its investigation, reported earlier today.

The Butler inquiry was critical of certain aspects of the way in which intelligence had been gathered and evaluated in the run-up to the Iraq war. It is also critical of the way in which the joint intelligence committee, which is the body which gathers the information from the various intelligence services here in the United Kingdom and puts that through to the prime minister and to the government of the day -- the way in which it had handled some information, and that it should not have taken ownership of this now infamous 2002 dossier, which talked about Saddam Hussein's ability to deploy weapons of mass destruction in 45 minutes.

But indeed, it was much more gentle in its criticism than had been expected. It didn't seem to light any individuals for criticism. And Tony Blair, when he came back to the House of Commons and made his statement to the House of Commons, made that point. This is what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: This report, like the Hutton inquiry, like the report of the intelligence and security committee before it, and of the foreign affairs committee before that, has found the same thing.

No one lied. No one made up the intelligence. No one inserted things into the dossier against the advice of the intelligence services.

Everyone genuinely tried to do their best in good faith for the country and circumstances of acute difficulty. That issue of good faith should now be at an end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURIEL: Now this report, so Tony Blair says, should not -- will not end the arguments about whether or not it was right to go to war. That seems to have been put behind him, as he said, to the House of Commons.

But nonetheless, it's very interesting that the Butler inquiries report was very different in its criticism and the degree of criticism that was offered to the intelligence-gathering system here in the U.K., as compared to that which occurred in the United States five days ago, when the Senate Intelligence Committee reported.

And indeed there was a question put to Lord Butler at the inquiry by a member of the press as to why the criticism wasn't as hard as that which had been seen in the U.S. And this was his reply to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORD BUTLER, FORMER CABINET SECRETARY: We are less critical of the judgments which were reached by the British intelligence machinery. That is correct. And the reason for that is that we think that those judgments were not unreasonable on the basis of the evidence.

Indeed, they were very widely shared by most other intelligence organizations in the world but...

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

BUTLER: Can I just finish the question?

But we -- we are critical of some aspects of the assessment. And in particular, we say, that we did detect a tendency for it to be colored by previous errors, that we noticed that there was a tendency for worst-case assessments to become baselines for the future.

For example, on the stocks of weapon, the things you couldn't account for, you then took as the worst case; and then said, well, we've accounted for this, so the must of the rest must be remaining.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURIEL: Now, Lord Butler said that some sources of intelligence coming from Iraq on the weapons there were seriously flawed. But he did stress the point -- and this is made very clearly in the report -- that there was no evidence of deliberate distortion or culpable negligence -- Daryn?

KAGAN: Diana Muriel with the latest from London, thank you for that.

A suicide car bombing tops the latest developments in Iraq. The attack in central Baghdad killed at least eight people. Dozens of Iraqi civilians and a U.S. soldier were injured. Iraq's interim prime minister says the bombing was in response to the recent arrest of prominent criminals.

A Bulgarian hostage may not have been executed by his captors after all. The police chief in Mosul says both of the Bulgarians kidnapped in Iraq are still alive. The Arab network, Al-Jazeera reported that one of the truck drivers had been killed.

The Philippine government is reducing the number of its troops in Iraq. The action is in response to demands from the kidnappers of a Filipino man. There is still no word on the fate of the hostage.

A U.S. Marine who says he was kidnapped in Iraq is headed now to the states. Corporal Wassef Ali Hassoun was to leave Ramstein Air Base in Germany just a short time ago, destined for Dover Air Force Base in Delaware. Hassoun disappeared from his post in Iraq on June 19th and resurfaced in Lebanon last week.

He issued this statement before leaving a hospital in Germany this morning, "I am happy to have completed this phase of my repatriation. The people here at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center have treated me very well, but I am excited to be going home. All thanks and praises are due to God for my safety."

I'm also very thankful for all those kind wishes, support and prayers for me and my family from my fellow Marines, all the people in the U.S., Lebanon and around the world. I am in good health and spirits. I look forward to my return home to friends and family. Semper fi."

An associate of Osama bin Laden is in custody in Saudi Arabia this morning. But U.S. and Saudi officials disagree over the significance of his surrender. Khaled Al-Harbi turned himself in yesterday.

The Saudis describe Al-Harbi as a big fish. They say his surrender is proof that their leniency offer for terror suspects is working. However, a U.S. intelligence official says that Al-Harbi is not an operational terrorist and is, what they say, not particularly significant.

So what does Al-Harbi's surrender mean for the war on terror? Some perspective on that and other developments now. Jim Walsh is with the Belfor Center in Science and International Affairs at Harvard University. He joins me from Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Jim, good morning. Good to have you here with us.

JIM WALSH, TERRORISM EXPERT: Good morning, Daryn. KAGAN: What's your assessment of Al-Harbi, big fish or not such a big deal?

WALSH: Well, we often face this sort of problem where you get conflicting claims about a certain person that's arrested. And my sort of rule of thumb on this is, I ask myself who has the most to gain? And then I sort of discount their report.

And in this case, the Saudis have the most to gain. They want to be able to show that they're tough in the war on terrorism, that they're make progress. This amnesty is working.

And so, when they say he's a big fish and then American officials say, I don't think so, I think the American officials are more likely to be true.

KAGAN: But a big fish according to Saudi officials who was able, what, to move not with that much difficulty in and out of Saudi Arabia.

WALSH: That's right. Although he is pretty much -- it appears as if he had hunkered down somewhere on the border between Iran and Afghanistan. I think that brings another interesting angle to it. One question obviously, is the Saudi plan working? But another one, is the role of Iran?

The U.S. and Iran have had their differences. And in particular, with regard to allegations that al Qaeda suspects, or members, are in Iran, whether they're in house arrest or some other status. And it appears that Iran has played a facilitating role in helping to make this happen. So we want to keep our eye on that and see if there's more of that in the future.

KAGAN: Well, more on Al-Harbi -- what exactly is his role, and ultimately, would he or could he lead to Osama bin Laden?

WALSH: Well, if it's true that bin Laden is in the frontier provinces -- that's what I believe, most folks believe -- than Al- Harbi was somewhere else on the other side of the country.

Now, he may have had some contact. Most people doubt that. Most people think that he really hasn't had any sort of operational role since 9/11. You remember him from that tape back in December right after 9/11.

He was in that incredible tape in which bin laden essentially took responsibility and owned up to the fact that he had been involved in plotting and staging the 9/11 attacks. And it was at that special dinner tape where he showed up. He -- that was the first time people had seen him, and then he sort of disappeared after that. So, that's why I don't think he's likely to be able to provide much good information.

KAGAN: And, Jim, what about this Saudi idea of providing this one month of amnesty? I think this is a concept that is just a little bit difficult for westerners to wrap their head around. WALSH: I understand that. I mean, why would you want to give amnesty to murderers? But I think you need to step back and look at it in two ways. First of all, it's not just amnesty.

When the announcement was made, it was amnesty and then the sword's going to fall. This guy was basically saying, I'm giving you a month and after a month, I'm coming after you, hard and heavy, and this is your last chance.

So, it wasn't just amnesty. It's an amnesty followed by what will probably be very swift and very severe actions on the part of the Saudi government.

The other thing is, you have to have multiple strategies if you're going to try to undermine the -- whether it's insurgents or terrorists. We see that the folks in Iraq are using the same strategy.

You want to arrest them, kill or capture some. Others, you want to buy off or co-opt or get in other ways. And amnesty is just another tool on the tool belt that you can use to try to undermine terrorist organizations.

KAGAN: As we're getting closer to the end of that month, do you think the Saudis are good for their word?

WALSH: Oh, yes. I think they're going to go after them, in part, because I think the attacks in Riyadh have really sent a message to the monarchy that bin Laden and his follower, whoever they may be, have in their sights not only the U.S. but the monarchy.

This is a knife pointed at their throats. So there's no question in mind, they're going to go after them hard. The only question is, are they going to cross that line and be so aggressive that they also end up alienating a bunch of other people at the same time?

KAGAN: Jim Walsh, always good to have you and your insight along with us. I appreciate your time today.

WALSH: Thank you, Daryn.

KAGAN: Thank you.

A detective is about to once again take center stage in the Peterson murder trial. First, though, the media might have something to say to the judge. We are live with the latest next.

And thousands of acres burned and dozens of homes threatened. It's a battle against a raging fire in southern California.

Still, later, constitutional controversy -- the battle over a proposed same sex marriage amendment reaches a fevered pitch on Capitol Hill.

CNN LIVE TODAY is coming right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Rhonda Schaffler at the New York Stock Exchange where Intel is holding the market in check.

The world's largest chip maker reported second quarter earnings that matched Wall Street's forecast. But the company's outlook has investors worried.

Gross margins, that's a closely watched measure of how profitable a company is, came in lower than expected. Shares of Intel dropping more than 8 percent on that news.

Intel is, in fact, the biggest Dow loser. But the overall blue chip average is up by 16.5 points. Nasdaq, little changed.

That is the very latest from Wall Street. LIVE TODAY continues right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: New Haven, Connecticut -- police there say they have several leads into five apparently random shootings. The vehicle police found in a city pond is being investigated as part of the case. Police divers are now searching the pond for a pistol. At least two people are being sought in that spree that wounded five people. The mayor spoke earlier today with CNN's AMERICAN MORNING.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JOHN DESTEFANO, NEW HAVEN, CONNECTICUT: If you're walking to the bus stop to go to work with your lunch, you don't expect this to happen. At least we don't in New Haven. It has never happened. And that's why we see this as an opportunity to send a very clear, direct message that it's not tolerable behavior. And in, in fact, to use the flood of resources we're putting out on the street, to pick up a lot of other folks who are out there and make them understand what behavior an acceptable and what behavior isn't acceptable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: One victim is in critical condition. Another is in serious condition. And a third is in fair condition. Two others were treated and released.

A police detective returns to the stand when testimony resumes today in the Scott Peterson murder trial. First, though, a judge will hear from an attorney representing news organizations.

Details now from our Rusty Dornin, who is covering trial in Redwood City, California. Rusty, good morning.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Daryn, there have been an ordinary number of closed-door sessions in this trial. I think reporters who have covered trials have all noticed it. Also, even the legal analysts have been commenting about it. And today, media attorneys are going to be arguing that many of these, including a session this morning, should be held in open court.

Now we believe that defense attorney Mark Geragos is going to be arguing this morning for a dismissal of charges against his client because of numerous mistakes he claims that the prosecution has made in this case.

He has charged even in open court that they have not shared discovery. And he's also accused investigators of lying on the stand. The jury is not going to even come into court until some time this afternoon.

That time, detective Dodge Hendee, who was on the stand most of yesterday, will be testifying again. He collected much of the key evidence that prosecutors have that they claim implicates Scott Peterson in the case.

He talked about collecting suspected blood samples from Peterson's truck. They never talked about the results of those blood samples. And also, cement chunks out of the pickup truck, as well as evidence of concrete, homemade anchors that were made.

Now only one concrete anchor was discovered. Prosecutors are claiming Peterson made up to three to five others and claimed that they were used to weight down Laci Peterson's body after he ferried her out to the bay.

Also, he was the one who discovered the very controversial hair in the set of pliers at the bottom of Peterson's boat. That piece of hair split into two and initially the defense had argued it had been tampered with.

When Hendee does return to the stand, it will be prosecutors still asking him questions. But you can bet when the defense attorney gets a chance to cross examine it could become quite contentious -- Daryn?

KAGAN: And our daily Amber Alert question. Amber Frey, any sign of her taking the stand?

DORNIN: It's really not looking like this week. We're still estimating it's going to be next week or maybe even early the following week.

KAGAN: All right. We'll be checking back with you. Rusty Dornin, in Redwood City, thank you for that.

Parts of southern California are going up in flames this morning. And the heat the wind, the dryness are not helping. We have the very latest coming up.

And it's not exactly, perhaps, the kind of snorkeling trip that you'd like your travel agent to book you on. We'll explain this upstream scene coming up in our "World Wrap."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KAGAN: Take a look at the map of Southern California. Several large wildfires have now consumed about 17,000 acres. One of the largest is in San Diego County where flames have blackened about 8,500 acre. Officials say it is about 10 percent contained.

Two other major fires are also burning in the mountains east of Los Angeles. No homes have been destroyed, but 1,000 people have been evacuated.

Will mother nature help? And what does it look like for the rest of the country? Jacqui Jeras is with us now. Hi, Jacqui.

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hi, Daryn. Mother nature not helping or hurting really the fire cause for today. Fire weather not critical, but it could be better.

(WEATHER BREAK)

JERAS: Daryn?

KAGAN: Jacqui, thank you.

Let's take a look now at what's making news overseas in this morning's "World Wrap."

The aftermath of a fierce battle in Chechnya. Chechens are worried about members of the country's presidential security team after rebels seized 12 of them yesterday. Reports say that eight Chechen policemen were killed in fighting that started when scores of insurgents ambushed the forces.

Pomp and ceremony are the order of the day in France as the country celebrates Bastille Day. The national holiday marks the 1789 French Revolution in which angry crowds stormed Paris' Bastille prison and ultimately overthrew the monarchy.

If mountain biking doesn't get you dirty and snorkling's a little too serene, how about tying them all together? It's mountain bike-bog- snorkeling, a yearly event in Wales. Competitors have to finish two lengths of the bog without inhaling too much goo. Lovely.

Well if all that has worn you out and catching some z's is what you are looking for, you might want to head to New York City where if you cook out in the middle of the day, you can power up with a power nap.

Jeanne Moos tells us more about that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When your head starts to droop, when your mouth starts to gape, maybe it's time to slip into something a little more comfortable.

(on camera) I wonder if people snore. (voice-over) High above New York City in the Empire State Building, people are napping like peas in eight pods. That's white noise. The pleasantly restful atmosphere feels look a cross between a gym and funeral home. Welcome to Metronaps.

ARSHAD CHOWDHURY, CO-FOUNDER, METRONAPS: Well Metronaps is a place for power naps. It's a place where people can recharge.

MOOS: The co-founder Arshad Chowdhury offers 20-minute naps for 14 bucks. And some who have napped don't lose sleep over the price.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Nice doze, 20 minutes is a nice doze.

MOOS (on camera): That's OK with you, 14 bucks?

UNIDENFIELD MALE: It's less than a dollar a minute, you know. What are you going to get for a dollar a minute these days?

MOOS (voice-over): Parking, perhaps? At Metronaps, they hand you a blanket -

(on camera) No napster has used this previously to me?

CHOWDHURY: Right. No. Everything is cleaned after every user.

MOOS (voice-over): And tuck you in.

CHOWDHURY: The pod itself is designed to wake you up in about 20 minutes.

MOOS: It gently vibrates and the lights come on. Some are so out of practice they need napping instructions.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I just lay? I feel like I'm in a spaceship.

MOOS: The sleeping modules in "2001, A Space Odyssey" were more advanced. But at least at Metronaps, they don't murder you in your sleep as Hal the computer did in the movie.

The first Metronaps pod was designed by a team that specialized in race cars. It's like being under a hair drier in a double-wide dentist chair that's capable of dizzying positions.

Metronaps founders' dream of one day seeing their pods sprout all over.

CHOWDHURY: Airports, highway rest stops, in corporate offices, bus stations and train stations, anywhere.

MOOS: Post-nap, nappers proceed to the wake station for towelettes and mints. Our favorite metronapping rule -- pods are for single occupancy only.

But getting 40 winks in 20 minutes can be a challenge.

MOOS (on camera): How am I supposed to sleep if you're looking at me?

(voice-over): Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: All right, let's try this one on. Say it aloud and if it sounds right, maybe it will happen -- Senator Ditka. The coach might actually be a play or two away from actually going for the Senate.

That story in your morning's complete political wrap up, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan at CNN Center in Atlanta.

In the news, at the half hour. A report released this morning says some of the British intelligence sources used to justify war with Iraq were seriously flawed. But the inquiry found no evidence of deliberate distortions. Prime Minister Tony Blair says he accepts the report's conclusions.

First Lady Laura Bush is in Alabama for a roundtable discussion to promote literacy. The event is being held at an elementary school. It is scheduled to begin any minute now. Daughter Jenna is expected to be there as well. Mrs. Bush says that she's happy her daughters are taking part in the president's re-election campaign.

Marine Corporal Wassef Ali Hassoun is on his way back to the U.S. Hassoun says that he was abducted from his base in Iraq last month. He turned up in Lebanon last week. Before leaving Germany this morning, Hassoun issued a statement saying he is in good health and spirits and is excited to be going home.

Officials say that at least eight people were killed when a suicide car bomb exploded in central Baghdad today. A U.S. soldier and dozens of Iraqi civilians were wounded. It was the first large- scale attack since Iraqi sovereignty was restored late, last month.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired July 14, 2004 - 11:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: In the Tour de France, the 10th stage ended just moments ago with France's Richard Verinque as the winner. France's Thomas Voeckler retained the yellow jersey as the overall leader.
It is 11 a.m. on Capitol Hill, 4 p.m. in London. We are at CNN Global Headquarters in Atlanta.

Good morning, once again. I am Daryn Kagan.

Our top story this hour -- seriously flawed intelligence leading to war with Iraq. This time that criticism is leveled at British intelligence.

Our Diana Muriel is outside Number 10 Downing Street in London with more on the Butler report. Good morning.

DIANA MURIEL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

Well the prime minister Tony Blair has just got back into Downing Street in the past hour. He's been responding to the Butler commission, which has taken six months in its investigation, reported earlier today.

The Butler inquiry was critical of certain aspects of the way in which intelligence had been gathered and evaluated in the run-up to the Iraq war. It is also critical of the way in which the joint intelligence committee, which is the body which gathers the information from the various intelligence services here in the United Kingdom and puts that through to the prime minister and to the government of the day -- the way in which it had handled some information, and that it should not have taken ownership of this now infamous 2002 dossier, which talked about Saddam Hussein's ability to deploy weapons of mass destruction in 45 minutes.

But indeed, it was much more gentle in its criticism than had been expected. It didn't seem to light any individuals for criticism. And Tony Blair, when he came back to the House of Commons and made his statement to the House of Commons, made that point. This is what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: This report, like the Hutton inquiry, like the report of the intelligence and security committee before it, and of the foreign affairs committee before that, has found the same thing.

No one lied. No one made up the intelligence. No one inserted things into the dossier against the advice of the intelligence services.

Everyone genuinely tried to do their best in good faith for the country and circumstances of acute difficulty. That issue of good faith should now be at an end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURIEL: Now this report, so Tony Blair says, should not -- will not end the arguments about whether or not it was right to go to war. That seems to have been put behind him, as he said, to the House of Commons.

But nonetheless, it's very interesting that the Butler inquiries report was very different in its criticism and the degree of criticism that was offered to the intelligence-gathering system here in the U.K., as compared to that which occurred in the United States five days ago, when the Senate Intelligence Committee reported.

And indeed there was a question put to Lord Butler at the inquiry by a member of the press as to why the criticism wasn't as hard as that which had been seen in the U.S. And this was his reply to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORD BUTLER, FORMER CABINET SECRETARY: We are less critical of the judgments which were reached by the British intelligence machinery. That is correct. And the reason for that is that we think that those judgments were not unreasonable on the basis of the evidence.

Indeed, they were very widely shared by most other intelligence organizations in the world but...

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

BUTLER: Can I just finish the question?

But we -- we are critical of some aspects of the assessment. And in particular, we say, that we did detect a tendency for it to be colored by previous errors, that we noticed that there was a tendency for worst-case assessments to become baselines for the future.

For example, on the stocks of weapon, the things you couldn't account for, you then took as the worst case; and then said, well, we've accounted for this, so the must of the rest must be remaining.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURIEL: Now, Lord Butler said that some sources of intelligence coming from Iraq on the weapons there were seriously flawed. But he did stress the point -- and this is made very clearly in the report -- that there was no evidence of deliberate distortion or culpable negligence -- Daryn?

KAGAN: Diana Muriel with the latest from London, thank you for that.

A suicide car bombing tops the latest developments in Iraq. The attack in central Baghdad killed at least eight people. Dozens of Iraqi civilians and a U.S. soldier were injured. Iraq's interim prime minister says the bombing was in response to the recent arrest of prominent criminals.

A Bulgarian hostage may not have been executed by his captors after all. The police chief in Mosul says both of the Bulgarians kidnapped in Iraq are still alive. The Arab network, Al-Jazeera reported that one of the truck drivers had been killed.

The Philippine government is reducing the number of its troops in Iraq. The action is in response to demands from the kidnappers of a Filipino man. There is still no word on the fate of the hostage.

A U.S. Marine who says he was kidnapped in Iraq is headed now to the states. Corporal Wassef Ali Hassoun was to leave Ramstein Air Base in Germany just a short time ago, destined for Dover Air Force Base in Delaware. Hassoun disappeared from his post in Iraq on June 19th and resurfaced in Lebanon last week.

He issued this statement before leaving a hospital in Germany this morning, "I am happy to have completed this phase of my repatriation. The people here at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center have treated me very well, but I am excited to be going home. All thanks and praises are due to God for my safety."

I'm also very thankful for all those kind wishes, support and prayers for me and my family from my fellow Marines, all the people in the U.S., Lebanon and around the world. I am in good health and spirits. I look forward to my return home to friends and family. Semper fi."

An associate of Osama bin Laden is in custody in Saudi Arabia this morning. But U.S. and Saudi officials disagree over the significance of his surrender. Khaled Al-Harbi turned himself in yesterday.

The Saudis describe Al-Harbi as a big fish. They say his surrender is proof that their leniency offer for terror suspects is working. However, a U.S. intelligence official says that Al-Harbi is not an operational terrorist and is, what they say, not particularly significant.

So what does Al-Harbi's surrender mean for the war on terror? Some perspective on that and other developments now. Jim Walsh is with the Belfor Center in Science and International Affairs at Harvard University. He joins me from Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Jim, good morning. Good to have you here with us.

JIM WALSH, TERRORISM EXPERT: Good morning, Daryn. KAGAN: What's your assessment of Al-Harbi, big fish or not such a big deal?

WALSH: Well, we often face this sort of problem where you get conflicting claims about a certain person that's arrested. And my sort of rule of thumb on this is, I ask myself who has the most to gain? And then I sort of discount their report.

And in this case, the Saudis have the most to gain. They want to be able to show that they're tough in the war on terrorism, that they're make progress. This amnesty is working.

And so, when they say he's a big fish and then American officials say, I don't think so, I think the American officials are more likely to be true.

KAGAN: But a big fish according to Saudi officials who was able, what, to move not with that much difficulty in and out of Saudi Arabia.

WALSH: That's right. Although he is pretty much -- it appears as if he had hunkered down somewhere on the border between Iran and Afghanistan. I think that brings another interesting angle to it. One question obviously, is the Saudi plan working? But another one, is the role of Iran?

The U.S. and Iran have had their differences. And in particular, with regard to allegations that al Qaeda suspects, or members, are in Iran, whether they're in house arrest or some other status. And it appears that Iran has played a facilitating role in helping to make this happen. So we want to keep our eye on that and see if there's more of that in the future.

KAGAN: Well, more on Al-Harbi -- what exactly is his role, and ultimately, would he or could he lead to Osama bin Laden?

WALSH: Well, if it's true that bin Laden is in the frontier provinces -- that's what I believe, most folks believe -- than Al- Harbi was somewhere else on the other side of the country.

Now, he may have had some contact. Most people doubt that. Most people think that he really hasn't had any sort of operational role since 9/11. You remember him from that tape back in December right after 9/11.

He was in that incredible tape in which bin laden essentially took responsibility and owned up to the fact that he had been involved in plotting and staging the 9/11 attacks. And it was at that special dinner tape where he showed up. He -- that was the first time people had seen him, and then he sort of disappeared after that. So, that's why I don't think he's likely to be able to provide much good information.

KAGAN: And, Jim, what about this Saudi idea of providing this one month of amnesty? I think this is a concept that is just a little bit difficult for westerners to wrap their head around. WALSH: I understand that. I mean, why would you want to give amnesty to murderers? But I think you need to step back and look at it in two ways. First of all, it's not just amnesty.

When the announcement was made, it was amnesty and then the sword's going to fall. This guy was basically saying, I'm giving you a month and after a month, I'm coming after you, hard and heavy, and this is your last chance.

So, it wasn't just amnesty. It's an amnesty followed by what will probably be very swift and very severe actions on the part of the Saudi government.

The other thing is, you have to have multiple strategies if you're going to try to undermine the -- whether it's insurgents or terrorists. We see that the folks in Iraq are using the same strategy.

You want to arrest them, kill or capture some. Others, you want to buy off or co-opt or get in other ways. And amnesty is just another tool on the tool belt that you can use to try to undermine terrorist organizations.

KAGAN: As we're getting closer to the end of that month, do you think the Saudis are good for their word?

WALSH: Oh, yes. I think they're going to go after them, in part, because I think the attacks in Riyadh have really sent a message to the monarchy that bin Laden and his follower, whoever they may be, have in their sights not only the U.S. but the monarchy.

This is a knife pointed at their throats. So there's no question in mind, they're going to go after them hard. The only question is, are they going to cross that line and be so aggressive that they also end up alienating a bunch of other people at the same time?

KAGAN: Jim Walsh, always good to have you and your insight along with us. I appreciate your time today.

WALSH: Thank you, Daryn.

KAGAN: Thank you.

A detective is about to once again take center stage in the Peterson murder trial. First, though, the media might have something to say to the judge. We are live with the latest next.

And thousands of acres burned and dozens of homes threatened. It's a battle against a raging fire in southern California.

Still, later, constitutional controversy -- the battle over a proposed same sex marriage amendment reaches a fevered pitch on Capitol Hill.

CNN LIVE TODAY is coming right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RHONDA SCHAFFLER, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Rhonda Schaffler at the New York Stock Exchange where Intel is holding the market in check.

The world's largest chip maker reported second quarter earnings that matched Wall Street's forecast. But the company's outlook has investors worried.

Gross margins, that's a closely watched measure of how profitable a company is, came in lower than expected. Shares of Intel dropping more than 8 percent on that news.

Intel is, in fact, the biggest Dow loser. But the overall blue chip average is up by 16.5 points. Nasdaq, little changed.

That is the very latest from Wall Street. LIVE TODAY continues right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: New Haven, Connecticut -- police there say they have several leads into five apparently random shootings. The vehicle police found in a city pond is being investigated as part of the case. Police divers are now searching the pond for a pistol. At least two people are being sought in that spree that wounded five people. The mayor spoke earlier today with CNN's AMERICAN MORNING.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JOHN DESTEFANO, NEW HAVEN, CONNECTICUT: If you're walking to the bus stop to go to work with your lunch, you don't expect this to happen. At least we don't in New Haven. It has never happened. And that's why we see this as an opportunity to send a very clear, direct message that it's not tolerable behavior. And in, in fact, to use the flood of resources we're putting out on the street, to pick up a lot of other folks who are out there and make them understand what behavior an acceptable and what behavior isn't acceptable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: One victim is in critical condition. Another is in serious condition. And a third is in fair condition. Two others were treated and released.

A police detective returns to the stand when testimony resumes today in the Scott Peterson murder trial. First, though, a judge will hear from an attorney representing news organizations.

Details now from our Rusty Dornin, who is covering trial in Redwood City, California. Rusty, good morning.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Daryn, there have been an ordinary number of closed-door sessions in this trial. I think reporters who have covered trials have all noticed it. Also, even the legal analysts have been commenting about it. And today, media attorneys are going to be arguing that many of these, including a session this morning, should be held in open court.

Now we believe that defense attorney Mark Geragos is going to be arguing this morning for a dismissal of charges against his client because of numerous mistakes he claims that the prosecution has made in this case.

He has charged even in open court that they have not shared discovery. And he's also accused investigators of lying on the stand. The jury is not going to even come into court until some time this afternoon.

That time, detective Dodge Hendee, who was on the stand most of yesterday, will be testifying again. He collected much of the key evidence that prosecutors have that they claim implicates Scott Peterson in the case.

He talked about collecting suspected blood samples from Peterson's truck. They never talked about the results of those blood samples. And also, cement chunks out of the pickup truck, as well as evidence of concrete, homemade anchors that were made.

Now only one concrete anchor was discovered. Prosecutors are claiming Peterson made up to three to five others and claimed that they were used to weight down Laci Peterson's body after he ferried her out to the bay.

Also, he was the one who discovered the very controversial hair in the set of pliers at the bottom of Peterson's boat. That piece of hair split into two and initially the defense had argued it had been tampered with.

When Hendee does return to the stand, it will be prosecutors still asking him questions. But you can bet when the defense attorney gets a chance to cross examine it could become quite contentious -- Daryn?

KAGAN: And our daily Amber Alert question. Amber Frey, any sign of her taking the stand?

DORNIN: It's really not looking like this week. We're still estimating it's going to be next week or maybe even early the following week.

KAGAN: All right. We'll be checking back with you. Rusty Dornin, in Redwood City, thank you for that.

Parts of southern California are going up in flames this morning. And the heat the wind, the dryness are not helping. We have the very latest coming up.

And it's not exactly, perhaps, the kind of snorkeling trip that you'd like your travel agent to book you on. We'll explain this upstream scene coming up in our "World Wrap."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KAGAN: Take a look at the map of Southern California. Several large wildfires have now consumed about 17,000 acres. One of the largest is in San Diego County where flames have blackened about 8,500 acre. Officials say it is about 10 percent contained.

Two other major fires are also burning in the mountains east of Los Angeles. No homes have been destroyed, but 1,000 people have been evacuated.

Will mother nature help? And what does it look like for the rest of the country? Jacqui Jeras is with us now. Hi, Jacqui.

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hi, Daryn. Mother nature not helping or hurting really the fire cause for today. Fire weather not critical, but it could be better.

(WEATHER BREAK)

JERAS: Daryn?

KAGAN: Jacqui, thank you.

Let's take a look now at what's making news overseas in this morning's "World Wrap."

The aftermath of a fierce battle in Chechnya. Chechens are worried about members of the country's presidential security team after rebels seized 12 of them yesterday. Reports say that eight Chechen policemen were killed in fighting that started when scores of insurgents ambushed the forces.

Pomp and ceremony are the order of the day in France as the country celebrates Bastille Day. The national holiday marks the 1789 French Revolution in which angry crowds stormed Paris' Bastille prison and ultimately overthrew the monarchy.

If mountain biking doesn't get you dirty and snorkling's a little too serene, how about tying them all together? It's mountain bike-bog- snorkeling, a yearly event in Wales. Competitors have to finish two lengths of the bog without inhaling too much goo. Lovely.

Well if all that has worn you out and catching some z's is what you are looking for, you might want to head to New York City where if you cook out in the middle of the day, you can power up with a power nap.

Jeanne Moos tells us more about that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When your head starts to droop, when your mouth starts to gape, maybe it's time to slip into something a little more comfortable.

(on camera) I wonder if people snore. (voice-over) High above New York City in the Empire State Building, people are napping like peas in eight pods. That's white noise. The pleasantly restful atmosphere feels look a cross between a gym and funeral home. Welcome to Metronaps.

ARSHAD CHOWDHURY, CO-FOUNDER, METRONAPS: Well Metronaps is a place for power naps. It's a place where people can recharge.

MOOS: The co-founder Arshad Chowdhury offers 20-minute naps for 14 bucks. And some who have napped don't lose sleep over the price.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Nice doze, 20 minutes is a nice doze.

MOOS (on camera): That's OK with you, 14 bucks?

UNIDENFIELD MALE: It's less than a dollar a minute, you know. What are you going to get for a dollar a minute these days?

MOOS (voice-over): Parking, perhaps? At Metronaps, they hand you a blanket -

(on camera) No napster has used this previously to me?

CHOWDHURY: Right. No. Everything is cleaned after every user.

MOOS (voice-over): And tuck you in.

CHOWDHURY: The pod itself is designed to wake you up in about 20 minutes.

MOOS: It gently vibrates and the lights come on. Some are so out of practice they need napping instructions.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I just lay? I feel like I'm in a spaceship.

MOOS: The sleeping modules in "2001, A Space Odyssey" were more advanced. But at least at Metronaps, they don't murder you in your sleep as Hal the computer did in the movie.

The first Metronaps pod was designed by a team that specialized in race cars. It's like being under a hair drier in a double-wide dentist chair that's capable of dizzying positions.

Metronaps founders' dream of one day seeing their pods sprout all over.

CHOWDHURY: Airports, highway rest stops, in corporate offices, bus stations and train stations, anywhere.

MOOS: Post-nap, nappers proceed to the wake station for towelettes and mints. Our favorite metronapping rule -- pods are for single occupancy only.

But getting 40 winks in 20 minutes can be a challenge.

MOOS (on camera): How am I supposed to sleep if you're looking at me?

(voice-over): Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: All right, let's try this one on. Say it aloud and if it sounds right, maybe it will happen -- Senator Ditka. The coach might actually be a play or two away from actually going for the Senate.

That story in your morning's complete political wrap up, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan at CNN Center in Atlanta.

In the news, at the half hour. A report released this morning says some of the British intelligence sources used to justify war with Iraq were seriously flawed. But the inquiry found no evidence of deliberate distortions. Prime Minister Tony Blair says he accepts the report's conclusions.

First Lady Laura Bush is in Alabama for a roundtable discussion to promote literacy. The event is being held at an elementary school. It is scheduled to begin any minute now. Daughter Jenna is expected to be there as well. Mrs. Bush says that she's happy her daughters are taking part in the president's re-election campaign.

Marine Corporal Wassef Ali Hassoun is on his way back to the U.S. Hassoun says that he was abducted from his base in Iraq last month. He turned up in Lebanon last week. Before leaving Germany this morning, Hassoun issued a statement saying he is in good health and spirits and is excited to be going home.

Officials say that at least eight people were killed when a suicide car bomb exploded in central Baghdad today. A U.S. soldier and dozens of Iraqi civilians were wounded. It was the first large- scale attack since Iraqi sovereignty was restored late, last month.

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