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CNN Crossfire
Political Pitches
Aired July 23, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: President Bush has a question for the Urban League.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Does the Democratic Party take African-American voters for granted?
ANNOUNCER: John Kerry and John Edwards kick off their road trip to the convention.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What a remarkable, remarkable journey we are on, to be in Colorado, the birthplace of the next president of the United States, John Kerry.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BUSH: I'm here to say that there's an alternative this year.
ANNOUNCER: But he probably doesn't mean this one.
RALPH NADER (I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are presenting to the American people a spectrum of policies.
ANNOUNCER: We've got all of the bases covered today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Election Express at Fenway Park in Boston, James Carville and Robert Novak.
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE from Fenway park. They don't play softball here, and neither will we.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Appropriately enough, we're overlooking right field. So I'll throw out today's first pitch. Here comes the best political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
The most famous party crasher at the Democratic National Convention will be the notorious left-wing agitator Michael Moore. The producer of the left-wing propaganda film "Fahrenheit 9/11" was not invited here, but he is very welcome, thank you. Howard Dean, the madcap presidential candidate, has agreed to appear with Moore.
The official spokeswoman for the Massachusetts Democratic Party expressed delight that Moore is coming. And the spokeswoman for the Congressional Black Caucus said of Gore, we're of like minds. Another uninvited guest to Boston today was Ralph Nader, who was greeted by abuse from no less than John Kerry. Nader has been a great consumer advocate for years, but he's assailed by Democrats for daring to run for president.
CARVILLE: Now, who do you like better, Ralph Nader or Michael Moore?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I don't understand. This is America. You have to be invited to go somewhere?
NOVAK: I like Ralph Nader.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: And I hate liars and assassins and mercenaries.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Who has he assassinated? Who has he assassinated
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Michael Moore, he assassinates characters.
CARVILLE: Who? What?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: George W. Bush.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Have you seen the movie yet?
NOVAK: I wouldn't defame myself to look at it. I know enough about
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: You don't know what you're talking about. You haven't even looked at it.
Every argument the Bush administration has made in favor of the war in Iraq is just our -- our occupation of Iraq and Iraq, in total shambles. We know there are no WMDs. We know we weren't welcomed as liberators. And the No. 1 argument is that there was a link between Iraq and al Qaeda. Now, the public report of the independent 9/11 Commission signed by all commissioners has concluded once and for all there was no collaboration between Iraq and al Qaeda. None. It's time for the Bush administration to give it up, admit they made a mistake and move on. I can't be more clear on this. All you right-wing bloviators who keep arguing that there was collaboration, it's over. Done. Case closed. You're wrong. Out of here. Done. Bye.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: You know, James, if you read the actual report, instead of the Democratic Party talking points, you would know that the report says there are friendly contacts and common themes on both sides' hatred of the U.S. in al Qaeda in Iraq. Iraq -- two al Qaeda members went to Iraq to meet with Iraqi intelligence. And an Iraqi delegation traveled to Afghanistan to meet first with the Taliban and then the al Qaeda. That's in the report.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: That's in the report!
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: They said they were contacts. Reagan had contact with the Soviet Union.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Well, why didn't you tell the truth?
CARVILLE: We started a war. I told the truth. The report said there was no collaboration, that there were contacts.
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: All your right-wing buddies that you told before this war it was stupid, if they had listened to you, they wouldn't have been in this mess.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: ... half the story.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: No, I read the whole thing.
NOVAK: Democrats brag that President Reagan's son Ron Jr. is addressing their convention Tuesday night, implying his vicious abuse of President Bush represents a switch by Reaganites.
The truth is that Ron Jr. is no Reaganite. That was made clear on Blanquita Cullum's radio show, talk show, by Ron's older brother, Michael Reagan. Brother Ron, who voted for Ralph Nader in the last election, never supported his father's policies, demonstrated against him, and get this, never voted for his own father. Michael explained why his brother is speaking to the Democratic Convention -- quote -- "He is there because he has a great name. His name is Reagan" -- end quote. I call it just plain sleazy.
CARVILLE: You know what? We're glad that he is going to talk about stem cell research, something that is very important to his mother, Nancy Reagan. And I'm sure to you right-wingers, Nancy Reagan is not a Reaganite either, probably not even a Reagan, because Ron Reagan we know is not a Reagan.
Nancy Reagan says that this is an asinine policy this administration has on stem cell research. But they have got to cater and suck up to all these right-wing idiots out here. Ron Reagan, welcome to our convention. Welcome to Boston.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Nancy Reagan, you're exactly right.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I am not going to let you sit here and insult Nancy Reagan.
CARVILLE: I'm not.
NOVAK: She is a Reaganite.
CARVILLE: And she's for stem cell research.
NOVAK: I'll tell you something else. You have something in common.
CARVILLE: Are you for stem cell research?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Can I finish my sentence?
CARVILLE: Yes.
NOVAK: I think you have something in common with Ron Jr. Neither of you know the first thing about stem cell research.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Well, does Nancy Reagan know anything about it? She's for it. She's a great lady and we're glad that she supports the same position here.
This Sunday, Dennis Eckersley will be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame. Over 24 seasons, Dennis pitched in 1,071 games, most of any Hall of Fame pitchers. And he pitched a pretty fair number of them here at Fenway Park. On the field, he faced adversity. He gave up Kirk Gibson's walk-off home run in the 1988 World Series. But he also faced adversity off the field, overcoming alcoholism.
And so while getting elected to the Hall is a great accomplishment, he calls his greatest accomplishment staying sober. At a time when our kids don't have a lot of role models in this world, I think Dennis Eckersley is more than just a baseball player. He's an inspiration.
NOVAK: Well, I have to second that. He was a very good starting pitcher and a great relief pitcher, one of the greatest of all time.
CARVILLE: And he is a -- and I was reading about that. I'm glad and I think we can all agree on that. Congratulations, Dennis Eckersley. And, congratulations, Paul Molitor, also.
NOVAK: The countdown is on, as Democrats gather to anoint their nominee. As we enjoy a late Friday afternoon at Fenway, hours before another Red Sox-Yankees showdown, we'll debate the political pitches being offered up by the Kerry and Bush campaigns.
And later, we'll introduce you to a candidate for president with ties to this ballpark, and his name isn't John Kerry.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARVILLE: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE from Fenway Park.
It's a great time to be in Boston. The Yankees are coming to play ball tonight. Starting Monday night, Democrats from all across the country will be in Boston to nominate John Kerry to be the next president of the United States.
We're going to talk baseball and politics with the Democratic National Committee's Ann Lewis, who was White House directions director under President Clinton, and my dear friend Ron Kaufman, who was White House political director under the first President Bush.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: And he's now a Republican National Committee man, isn't he?
Ann Lewis, after all the months of battering of George W. Bush, of throwing filth on him, of just degrading him, aren't you disappointed that the CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, current one, shows who would better handle terrorism, Bush 56 percent, Kerry 38 percent? Who's a stronger and more decisive leader? Bush, 54 percent, Kerry, 37 percent. That's disappointing, isn't it? ANN LEWIS, NATIONAL CHAIR, WOMEN'S VOTE CENTER: Actually, Bob, you're cherry-picking a little bit out of some of these polls, because the poll numbers I show that, even after the Bush-Cheney campaign has spent $75 million in negative ads trying to batter John Kerry down, he is ahead or tied with President Bush when you ask people who they're going to vote for.
That's the question that matters. John Kerry's doing well on that one and that's because people are ready to go in a different direction and they think he's the leader who can take them there.
NOVAK: But the polls also show that Bush is about 2-1 on not changing position. Does Kerry have a clear plan for Iraq, 2-1. This is a real problem, that you've got to turn around the public conception of John Kerry if he's going to win, don't you?
LEWIS: No, because the public also thinks that John Kerry has got a better economic plan. He's got better idea on health care. He's got better ideas on education. He can be a leader and he can rebuild our relations with our allies.
And you know what? Americans think we shouldn't be isolated in the world. We want to be part of a coalition. That's how we are going to be really secure and strong.
CARVILLE: Ron, there's a GAO report that just came out that says our military has been so weak under the Bush administration that Navy and Air Force pilots are canceling training exercise, that facility restoration projects are being delayed. The Air Force is straining to cover the cost of body armor and night-vision and surveillance equipment, that the Army is having to try to get money from the Air Force and the Marines to pay for protection.
And I know that you're a national defense Republican. It must break your heart to see that this is the most anti-military president that's held office in the last 50 years. This has got to be crushing you and your pro-military, pro-armed forces friends, that -- what this president and what this administration has done to our armed forces and our men and women in uniform.
RON KAUFMAN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: James, only you, God bless you, could say that with a straight face.
CARVILLE: Well, I'm saying the GAO.
KAUFMAN: This is the greatest president we've had in a long time for our military. Listen, we're at war, James. We don't care about training exercises. The exercise is on the front lines, not some training in some place.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: You're saying there's no connection between training and people's ability to fight?
(CROSSTALK) KAUFMAN: If you're saying John Kerry would vote for some military money, maybe we wouldn't have these problems right now. Listen, James...
CARVILLE: You're not really suggesting we shouldn't train our people before we put them in combat?
KAUFMAN: No, sir. Not at all, sir.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Should we have pilot training?
KAUFMAN: We're doing great training.
CARVILLE: Air Force and Navy pilots are canceling training exercise. Don't you think that we ought to have the best-trained people?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: You asked that twice already. Let me ask a different question.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I'm scoring too heavily, Bob.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Ann Lewis, Ann Lewis, you are really one of the most articulate supporters of abortion rights. And I'm sure you can interpret for me what John Kerry is talking about. He said on an ABC show, I believe it was, that life begins at conception, and we all we pro-lifers believe.
And then he was asked by "The Boston Globe" to explain that. And he said -- quote -- "It's the beginning of life. Does life begin? Yes, it begins. Is it at the point where I would say that you apply those penalties? The answer is no. And I believe in choice."
If that isn't the most bit of gobbledygook I've ever -- do you understand what he's saying?
LEWIS: Absolutely.
And let me say, I defend a woman's right to make her own decisions. And I think women and their doctors make better decisions than politicians do. I know, Bob, that you think the politicians and you think the Congress should make those decisions. I don't.
Here's what John Kerry said. He said, personally, as a matter of faith, I believe that's the beginning of life. But he said, I also don't think that I should use the power of law to impose that opinion on everyone else. That's the big difference between us.
NOVAK: So you don't...
LEWIS: We are pro-choice because we trust women to make difficult, personal, private decisions for themselves.
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: And that's where John Kerry will be.
NOVAK: If I could...
LEWIS: Oh, go ahead. Get a word in, I know. Go ahead.
NOVAK: If I could defend myself, I don't think much of politicians, as you know, present company excepted.
LEWIS: But you do think Congress should make the laws about medical decisions.
NOVAK: Just a minute. Just let me finish my sentence. It is a matter of faith with me.
And John Kerry says it's a matter of faith -- we belong to the same church -- that life begins at conception, but he says it doesn't matter if life begins. If the woman wants to kill it, kill it. Is that it?
LEWIS: No.
What he exactly said is, that is my faith. But because many other people have different views, I will trust women and their doctors to make that decision. And, Bob, no matter how you spin it, you want to put politicians in charge. And you want them to walk in with women to their doctor's offices and have members of Congress say, well, yes, you can, no you can't. And you know what? We don't want to do that.
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: With all due respect, if I could, James. I understand why people feel passionate about this issue of life and death, because it is life and death. And I understand why some people who don't believe life begins at conception believe women should have the choice medically. I understand. I don't agree with it, but I understand it.
But if you say, if anyone says, in my heart, I believe, I believe that life begins at conception, ergo, abortion is murder, and that's the problem. You would say no on TV right now, but I've talked to a lot of your friends off-camera who believe it's right.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: John Kerry, we know what the position is. George W. Bush wants to ban abortion. John Kerry is for abortion rights.
Let me go to another thing, because I want to ask you about this.
KAUFMAN: Sure.
CARVILLE: The Nancy Reagan-John Kerry position is, is that we should have stem cell research. That Jerry Falwell-George W. Bush-Pat Robertson position is, is that we should not have this science. We should not have scientists.
Do you think that it's really smart politics for George W. Bush to be holding to the extreme, narrow right wing of the Republican Party, scared to come out of his shadow and follow Nancy Reagan's lead and Orrin Hatch and right Republicans who are saying that we need to have this?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Can you urge the president to reject this?
KAUFMAN: First of all, I would love to have John Kerry have one stand on any issue. He has two stands on every single issue, which is the best debate in politics today.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: No, he has one stand on stem cell research. He's for it.
KAUFMAN: President Bush, on the other hand, as Bob said earlier, is known for one thing. He takes a stand. He believes in it and doesn't change.
CARVILLE: Right.
KAUFMAN: And that's what American people like.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: That's right. He was for not nation-building.
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: People liked Ronald Reagan. People liked Ronald Reagan because he stuck to his guns. People liked Bill Clinton, even though I didn't. He stuck to his guns.
CARVILLE: Did he stick to his guns on balancing the budget?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Did he stick to his guns -- did he stick to his guns on balancing the budget?
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: Sure he did. He absolutely did.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: We have a balanced budget?
Ladies and gentlemen, hallelujah. If you didn't know that, you don't know what -- you are so stupid out there, America, you actually think we have a deficit?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Ann Lewis, I'm going to put four names up on the screen, Inez Tenenbaum of South Carolina, Erskine Bowles of North Carolina, Tony Knowles of Alaska, and Brad Carson of Oklahoma.
They all have a lot of things in common. They are Democrats. They are running for the Senate in tough Republican states. They all have a good chance to win. And they're all staying away from Boston! Isn't that because they don't want to be affected with this liberal convention?
LEWIS: Let me add one more thing they have in common. They're going to win. We're going to elect Democrats to the Senate. It's going to be a Democratic..
NOVAK: Answer my question.
LEWIS: You know what? They have figured out they get more votes and they have more voters in their home states. They're doing what's right.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: They don't want to be seen with you, do they, Ann?
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: They are talking to the people in North Carolina. They are talking to the people of Oklahoma. They're talking to real voters. That's what they ought to do. That's why they're going to get elected.
NOVAK: They don't want to be seen with you, do they?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Because I know you and you're a good fiscal conservative. How do you feel having to defend a man who has presided over the largest expansion of domestic spending and wrecked our military? This must break your heart as a pro-military, fiscal
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: I love having a president that I can be proud of who is not afraid to take a stand.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Who's not afraid to bust a budget.
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: Who's not afraid to take a stand.
CARVILLE: Not afraid to plunge the country into debt.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Who's not afraid to wreck the military.
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: ... to his knees by outspending them. There's a time it is important to spend money. We don't like it. This is one of those times. And whether we like it or not, we went through a recession. We went through 9/11. And we're at war.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Could we get anything for all this money?
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: How about 1.7 million jobs in the last year, 1.7 million jobs?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: He hasn't created the first job.
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: For you, a job is not important. For the guy out there, it's important to get a job.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I want to get another explanation from Ann Lewis. She hasn't explained anything yet to me, but I keep trying.
LEWIS: That's the problem.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Our mutual friend Ralph Nader was in town today.
LEWIS: Yes.
NOVAK: And he pointed out that John Kerry and John Edwards voted for the Patriot Act, which all you lefties think is some kind of fascism. I think it's a pretty good act. And so did the 9/11 report. They think that the Patriot Act is -- so whose side are you on, Ralph Nader or John Kerry and John Edwards?
LEWIS: Oh, I think John Kerry has been very clear. He thinks the Patriot Act did some very good things. In fact, there are places where he thinks it should be strengthened, like on money laundering, where he's been a real leader.
Are there a couple of places where it should be fixed because it went too far? Yes.
NOVAK: Didn't he vote for it?
LEWIS: Yes. Yes, he voted for it.
NOVAK: So it's a good act, then?
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: Sometimes, you vote for acts that have good things in them and some things you want to change. He wants to change the parts that aren't working.
And you know what? So did a majority in the Republican House of Representatives. They voted to change the Patriot Act to protect librarians, among other things. And it was so stunning that the Republican leadership held the vote open until they could enough people to change their votes.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: So we should renew the Patriot Act, then?
LEWIS: No.
NOVAK: No?
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: We should strengthen it where it needs strengthening.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: It's not complicated. She's saying we should keep some of it and change the rest of it.
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: We should fix those parts that need fixing and that should be a bipartisan consensus.
NOVAK: All right, when we -- we are going to take a break.
And when we come back, our guests will face the fastballs in Fenway Park that come from "Rapid Fire."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Boston at the Democratic National Convention.
Coming up at the top of the hour, terror officials investigate possible new threats against an unlikely target at the Democratic Convention.
He's a top CIA official who wrote a scathing critique of the war on terror. The author known as Anonymous reacts to the new 9/11 report.
Plus, your bank account, credit cards, even your identity at risk from a devious e-mail scam. How to protect yourself, information you need to know.
Those stories, much more only minutes away on a special edition of "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARVILLE: It's time for "Rapid Fire," where we toss out questions even faster than Curt Schilling will be throwing pitches on the mound tonight.
Our guests are Ron Kaufman, who was White House political director under President Bush I, and Ann Lewis, who was White House communications director under the last elected president of the United States, President William Jefferson Clinton.
NOVAK: Ann, the Democratic chairmen of California and Ohio say that when Mayor Menino of Boston addresses the convention to welcome it, they will walk out because of his dispute with the police union. Should they walk out?
LEWIS: They should make the decision that's right for them and for their delegates.
CARVILLE: Ron, getting rid of politics, will the Red Sox win the World Series in your lifetime?
KAUFMAN: I hope so, James, but I think I'm going to be 127 when they finally win the World Series, James.
NOVAK: Nobody talks about gun control in the Democrats anymore. Have you had orders not to talk about gun control?
LEWIS: No, not at all. We want to talk about why this president, who said he was for an assaults weapons ban, is now backing away from it. And I think that's an issue we'll hear more in fall, because if the assault weapons ban expires, that makes our children are more exposed to danger and that means police officers are more exposed to danger. We ought to return that ban, renew the assault weapons ban. And George Bush ought to do what he said he would do and stand up for it.
CARVILLE: What happened to the president's plan to cut Social Security? Will he be reintroducing that as part of his second-term agenda?
KAUFMAN: I think that the president is going to do a good job in his second term. I'm glad you know, James, there will be a second term. CARVILLE: Really?
KAUFMAN: And he'll address all of the problems that we're handling that he did the first term.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: He didn't do anything the first term.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Ann, since the Democrats think this war was a big mistake, with the convention pass a resolution of support to Saddam Hussein?
LEWIS: You ought to read the Democratic platform and hear John Kerry talk about how we're going to be a stronger America, respected in the world.
(BELL RINGING)
LEWIS: And we're going to keep working for a secure, democratic and pluralistic Iraq.
NOVAK: Ann Lewis, thank you very much. Ron Kaufman, thank you.
Next, we're joined by a candidate for president who's green with envy over all of the attention John Kerry is getting around Boston these days.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NOVAK: These days, it isn't enough for a sports team simply to have a name like the Red Sox. They also have to have a mascot. Since Fenway Park, America's most beloved ballpark, is famous for its left field wall known as the Green Monster, some genius decided the perfect mascot would be a green monster named Wally.
CARVILLE: Hey, OK, Wally. The Sox are 8 1/2 back. It's late July. Yes or no, can they catch the Yankees and win the division? Wally, your nose is growing. Your nose is growing, Wally.
NOVAK: Wally, I was looking at your platform. It sounds like a left-wing liberal platform. Are you a liberal?
CARVILLE: All right.
NOVAK: OK.
CARVILLE: Wally, have you seen "Fahrenheit 9/11"?
NOVAK: OK. Thank you very much, Wally.
The Democrats may be holding their convention next week, but that's hardly any reason to skip CROSSFIRE. So we'll be on as usual at 4:30 p.m. Eastern. Monday, we'll be at Boston's famous Faneuil Hall. Be sure to join us.
CARVILLE: From the left, I'm James Carville.
And, Wally, that's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE, without the Green Monster.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
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Aired July 23, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: President Bush has a question for the Urban League.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Does the Democratic Party take African-American voters for granted?
ANNOUNCER: John Kerry and John Edwards kick off their road trip to the convention.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What a remarkable, remarkable journey we are on, to be in Colorado, the birthplace of the next president of the United States, John Kerry.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BUSH: I'm here to say that there's an alternative this year.
ANNOUNCER: But he probably doesn't mean this one.
RALPH NADER (I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are presenting to the American people a spectrum of policies.
ANNOUNCER: We've got all of the bases covered today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Election Express at Fenway Park in Boston, James Carville and Robert Novak.
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE from Fenway park. They don't play softball here, and neither will we.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Appropriately enough, we're overlooking right field. So I'll throw out today's first pitch. Here comes the best political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
The most famous party crasher at the Democratic National Convention will be the notorious left-wing agitator Michael Moore. The producer of the left-wing propaganda film "Fahrenheit 9/11" was not invited here, but he is very welcome, thank you. Howard Dean, the madcap presidential candidate, has agreed to appear with Moore.
The official spokeswoman for the Massachusetts Democratic Party expressed delight that Moore is coming. And the spokeswoman for the Congressional Black Caucus said of Gore, we're of like minds. Another uninvited guest to Boston today was Ralph Nader, who was greeted by abuse from no less than John Kerry. Nader has been a great consumer advocate for years, but he's assailed by Democrats for daring to run for president.
CARVILLE: Now, who do you like better, Ralph Nader or Michael Moore?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I don't understand. This is America. You have to be invited to go somewhere?
NOVAK: I like Ralph Nader.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: And I hate liars and assassins and mercenaries.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Who has he assassinated? Who has he assassinated
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Michael Moore, he assassinates characters.
CARVILLE: Who? What?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: George W. Bush.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Have you seen the movie yet?
NOVAK: I wouldn't defame myself to look at it. I know enough about
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: You don't know what you're talking about. You haven't even looked at it.
Every argument the Bush administration has made in favor of the war in Iraq is just our -- our occupation of Iraq and Iraq, in total shambles. We know there are no WMDs. We know we weren't welcomed as liberators. And the No. 1 argument is that there was a link between Iraq and al Qaeda. Now, the public report of the independent 9/11 Commission signed by all commissioners has concluded once and for all there was no collaboration between Iraq and al Qaeda. None. It's time for the Bush administration to give it up, admit they made a mistake and move on. I can't be more clear on this. All you right-wing bloviators who keep arguing that there was collaboration, it's over. Done. Case closed. You're wrong. Out of here. Done. Bye.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: You know, James, if you read the actual report, instead of the Democratic Party talking points, you would know that the report says there are friendly contacts and common themes on both sides' hatred of the U.S. in al Qaeda in Iraq. Iraq -- two al Qaeda members went to Iraq to meet with Iraqi intelligence. And an Iraqi delegation traveled to Afghanistan to meet first with the Taliban and then the al Qaeda. That's in the report.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: That's in the report!
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: They said they were contacts. Reagan had contact with the Soviet Union.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Well, why didn't you tell the truth?
CARVILLE: We started a war. I told the truth. The report said there was no collaboration, that there were contacts.
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: All your right-wing buddies that you told before this war it was stupid, if they had listened to you, they wouldn't have been in this mess.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: ... half the story.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: No, I read the whole thing.
NOVAK: Democrats brag that President Reagan's son Ron Jr. is addressing their convention Tuesday night, implying his vicious abuse of President Bush represents a switch by Reaganites.
The truth is that Ron Jr. is no Reaganite. That was made clear on Blanquita Cullum's radio show, talk show, by Ron's older brother, Michael Reagan. Brother Ron, who voted for Ralph Nader in the last election, never supported his father's policies, demonstrated against him, and get this, never voted for his own father. Michael explained why his brother is speaking to the Democratic Convention -- quote -- "He is there because he has a great name. His name is Reagan" -- end quote. I call it just plain sleazy.
CARVILLE: You know what? We're glad that he is going to talk about stem cell research, something that is very important to his mother, Nancy Reagan. And I'm sure to you right-wingers, Nancy Reagan is not a Reaganite either, probably not even a Reagan, because Ron Reagan we know is not a Reagan.
Nancy Reagan says that this is an asinine policy this administration has on stem cell research. But they have got to cater and suck up to all these right-wing idiots out here. Ron Reagan, welcome to our convention. Welcome to Boston.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Nancy Reagan, you're exactly right.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I am not going to let you sit here and insult Nancy Reagan.
CARVILLE: I'm not.
NOVAK: She is a Reaganite.
CARVILLE: And she's for stem cell research.
NOVAK: I'll tell you something else. You have something in common.
CARVILLE: Are you for stem cell research?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Can I finish my sentence?
CARVILLE: Yes.
NOVAK: I think you have something in common with Ron Jr. Neither of you know the first thing about stem cell research.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Well, does Nancy Reagan know anything about it? She's for it. She's a great lady and we're glad that she supports the same position here.
This Sunday, Dennis Eckersley will be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame. Over 24 seasons, Dennis pitched in 1,071 games, most of any Hall of Fame pitchers. And he pitched a pretty fair number of them here at Fenway Park. On the field, he faced adversity. He gave up Kirk Gibson's walk-off home run in the 1988 World Series. But he also faced adversity off the field, overcoming alcoholism.
And so while getting elected to the Hall is a great accomplishment, he calls his greatest accomplishment staying sober. At a time when our kids don't have a lot of role models in this world, I think Dennis Eckersley is more than just a baseball player. He's an inspiration.
NOVAK: Well, I have to second that. He was a very good starting pitcher and a great relief pitcher, one of the greatest of all time.
CARVILLE: And he is a -- and I was reading about that. I'm glad and I think we can all agree on that. Congratulations, Dennis Eckersley. And, congratulations, Paul Molitor, also.
NOVAK: The countdown is on, as Democrats gather to anoint their nominee. As we enjoy a late Friday afternoon at Fenway, hours before another Red Sox-Yankees showdown, we'll debate the political pitches being offered up by the Kerry and Bush campaigns.
And later, we'll introduce you to a candidate for president with ties to this ballpark, and his name isn't John Kerry.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARVILLE: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE from Fenway Park.
It's a great time to be in Boston. The Yankees are coming to play ball tonight. Starting Monday night, Democrats from all across the country will be in Boston to nominate John Kerry to be the next president of the United States.
We're going to talk baseball and politics with the Democratic National Committee's Ann Lewis, who was White House directions director under President Clinton, and my dear friend Ron Kaufman, who was White House political director under the first President Bush.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: And he's now a Republican National Committee man, isn't he?
Ann Lewis, after all the months of battering of George W. Bush, of throwing filth on him, of just degrading him, aren't you disappointed that the CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, current one, shows who would better handle terrorism, Bush 56 percent, Kerry 38 percent? Who's a stronger and more decisive leader? Bush, 54 percent, Kerry, 37 percent. That's disappointing, isn't it? ANN LEWIS, NATIONAL CHAIR, WOMEN'S VOTE CENTER: Actually, Bob, you're cherry-picking a little bit out of some of these polls, because the poll numbers I show that, even after the Bush-Cheney campaign has spent $75 million in negative ads trying to batter John Kerry down, he is ahead or tied with President Bush when you ask people who they're going to vote for.
That's the question that matters. John Kerry's doing well on that one and that's because people are ready to go in a different direction and they think he's the leader who can take them there.
NOVAK: But the polls also show that Bush is about 2-1 on not changing position. Does Kerry have a clear plan for Iraq, 2-1. This is a real problem, that you've got to turn around the public conception of John Kerry if he's going to win, don't you?
LEWIS: No, because the public also thinks that John Kerry has got a better economic plan. He's got better idea on health care. He's got better ideas on education. He can be a leader and he can rebuild our relations with our allies.
And you know what? Americans think we shouldn't be isolated in the world. We want to be part of a coalition. That's how we are going to be really secure and strong.
CARVILLE: Ron, there's a GAO report that just came out that says our military has been so weak under the Bush administration that Navy and Air Force pilots are canceling training exercise, that facility restoration projects are being delayed. The Air Force is straining to cover the cost of body armor and night-vision and surveillance equipment, that the Army is having to try to get money from the Air Force and the Marines to pay for protection.
And I know that you're a national defense Republican. It must break your heart to see that this is the most anti-military president that's held office in the last 50 years. This has got to be crushing you and your pro-military, pro-armed forces friends, that -- what this president and what this administration has done to our armed forces and our men and women in uniform.
RON KAUFMAN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: James, only you, God bless you, could say that with a straight face.
CARVILLE: Well, I'm saying the GAO.
KAUFMAN: This is the greatest president we've had in a long time for our military. Listen, we're at war, James. We don't care about training exercises. The exercise is on the front lines, not some training in some place.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: You're saying there's no connection between training and people's ability to fight?
(CROSSTALK) KAUFMAN: If you're saying John Kerry would vote for some military money, maybe we wouldn't have these problems right now. Listen, James...
CARVILLE: You're not really suggesting we shouldn't train our people before we put them in combat?
KAUFMAN: No, sir. Not at all, sir.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Should we have pilot training?
KAUFMAN: We're doing great training.
CARVILLE: Air Force and Navy pilots are canceling training exercise. Don't you think that we ought to have the best-trained people?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: You asked that twice already. Let me ask a different question.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I'm scoring too heavily, Bob.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Ann Lewis, Ann Lewis, you are really one of the most articulate supporters of abortion rights. And I'm sure you can interpret for me what John Kerry is talking about. He said on an ABC show, I believe it was, that life begins at conception, and we all we pro-lifers believe.
And then he was asked by "The Boston Globe" to explain that. And he said -- quote -- "It's the beginning of life. Does life begin? Yes, it begins. Is it at the point where I would say that you apply those penalties? The answer is no. And I believe in choice."
If that isn't the most bit of gobbledygook I've ever -- do you understand what he's saying?
LEWIS: Absolutely.
And let me say, I defend a woman's right to make her own decisions. And I think women and their doctors make better decisions than politicians do. I know, Bob, that you think the politicians and you think the Congress should make those decisions. I don't.
Here's what John Kerry said. He said, personally, as a matter of faith, I believe that's the beginning of life. But he said, I also don't think that I should use the power of law to impose that opinion on everyone else. That's the big difference between us.
NOVAK: So you don't...
LEWIS: We are pro-choice because we trust women to make difficult, personal, private decisions for themselves.
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: And that's where John Kerry will be.
NOVAK: If I could...
LEWIS: Oh, go ahead. Get a word in, I know. Go ahead.
NOVAK: If I could defend myself, I don't think much of politicians, as you know, present company excepted.
LEWIS: But you do think Congress should make the laws about medical decisions.
NOVAK: Just a minute. Just let me finish my sentence. It is a matter of faith with me.
And John Kerry says it's a matter of faith -- we belong to the same church -- that life begins at conception, but he says it doesn't matter if life begins. If the woman wants to kill it, kill it. Is that it?
LEWIS: No.
What he exactly said is, that is my faith. But because many other people have different views, I will trust women and their doctors to make that decision. And, Bob, no matter how you spin it, you want to put politicians in charge. And you want them to walk in with women to their doctor's offices and have members of Congress say, well, yes, you can, no you can't. And you know what? We don't want to do that.
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: With all due respect, if I could, James. I understand why people feel passionate about this issue of life and death, because it is life and death. And I understand why some people who don't believe life begins at conception believe women should have the choice medically. I understand. I don't agree with it, but I understand it.
But if you say, if anyone says, in my heart, I believe, I believe that life begins at conception, ergo, abortion is murder, and that's the problem. You would say no on TV right now, but I've talked to a lot of your friends off-camera who believe it's right.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: John Kerry, we know what the position is. George W. Bush wants to ban abortion. John Kerry is for abortion rights.
Let me go to another thing, because I want to ask you about this.
KAUFMAN: Sure.
CARVILLE: The Nancy Reagan-John Kerry position is, is that we should have stem cell research. That Jerry Falwell-George W. Bush-Pat Robertson position is, is that we should not have this science. We should not have scientists.
Do you think that it's really smart politics for George W. Bush to be holding to the extreme, narrow right wing of the Republican Party, scared to come out of his shadow and follow Nancy Reagan's lead and Orrin Hatch and right Republicans who are saying that we need to have this?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Can you urge the president to reject this?
KAUFMAN: First of all, I would love to have John Kerry have one stand on any issue. He has two stands on every single issue, which is the best debate in politics today.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: No, he has one stand on stem cell research. He's for it.
KAUFMAN: President Bush, on the other hand, as Bob said earlier, is known for one thing. He takes a stand. He believes in it and doesn't change.
CARVILLE: Right.
KAUFMAN: And that's what American people like.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: That's right. He was for not nation-building.
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: People liked Ronald Reagan. People liked Ronald Reagan because he stuck to his guns. People liked Bill Clinton, even though I didn't. He stuck to his guns.
CARVILLE: Did he stick to his guns on balancing the budget?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Did he stick to his guns -- did he stick to his guns on balancing the budget?
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: Sure he did. He absolutely did.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: We have a balanced budget?
Ladies and gentlemen, hallelujah. If you didn't know that, you don't know what -- you are so stupid out there, America, you actually think we have a deficit?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Ann Lewis, I'm going to put four names up on the screen, Inez Tenenbaum of South Carolina, Erskine Bowles of North Carolina, Tony Knowles of Alaska, and Brad Carson of Oklahoma.
They all have a lot of things in common. They are Democrats. They are running for the Senate in tough Republican states. They all have a good chance to win. And they're all staying away from Boston! Isn't that because they don't want to be affected with this liberal convention?
LEWIS: Let me add one more thing they have in common. They're going to win. We're going to elect Democrats to the Senate. It's going to be a Democratic..
NOVAK: Answer my question.
LEWIS: You know what? They have figured out they get more votes and they have more voters in their home states. They're doing what's right.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: They don't want to be seen with you, do they, Ann?
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: They are talking to the people in North Carolina. They are talking to the people of Oklahoma. They're talking to real voters. That's what they ought to do. That's why they're going to get elected.
NOVAK: They don't want to be seen with you, do they?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Because I know you and you're a good fiscal conservative. How do you feel having to defend a man who has presided over the largest expansion of domestic spending and wrecked our military? This must break your heart as a pro-military, fiscal
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: I love having a president that I can be proud of who is not afraid to take a stand.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Who's not afraid to bust a budget.
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: Who's not afraid to take a stand.
CARVILLE: Not afraid to plunge the country into debt.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Who's not afraid to wreck the military.
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: ... to his knees by outspending them. There's a time it is important to spend money. We don't like it. This is one of those times. And whether we like it or not, we went through a recession. We went through 9/11. And we're at war.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Could we get anything for all this money?
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: How about 1.7 million jobs in the last year, 1.7 million jobs?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: He hasn't created the first job.
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: For you, a job is not important. For the guy out there, it's important to get a job.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I want to get another explanation from Ann Lewis. She hasn't explained anything yet to me, but I keep trying.
LEWIS: That's the problem.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Our mutual friend Ralph Nader was in town today.
LEWIS: Yes.
NOVAK: And he pointed out that John Kerry and John Edwards voted for the Patriot Act, which all you lefties think is some kind of fascism. I think it's a pretty good act. And so did the 9/11 report. They think that the Patriot Act is -- so whose side are you on, Ralph Nader or John Kerry and John Edwards?
LEWIS: Oh, I think John Kerry has been very clear. He thinks the Patriot Act did some very good things. In fact, there are places where he thinks it should be strengthened, like on money laundering, where he's been a real leader.
Are there a couple of places where it should be fixed because it went too far? Yes.
NOVAK: Didn't he vote for it?
LEWIS: Yes. Yes, he voted for it.
NOVAK: So it's a good act, then?
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: Sometimes, you vote for acts that have good things in them and some things you want to change. He wants to change the parts that aren't working.
And you know what? So did a majority in the Republican House of Representatives. They voted to change the Patriot Act to protect librarians, among other things. And it was so stunning that the Republican leadership held the vote open until they could enough people to change their votes.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: So we should renew the Patriot Act, then?
LEWIS: No.
NOVAK: No?
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: We should strengthen it where it needs strengthening.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: It's not complicated. She's saying we should keep some of it and change the rest of it.
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: We should fix those parts that need fixing and that should be a bipartisan consensus.
NOVAK: All right, when we -- we are going to take a break.
And when we come back, our guests will face the fastballs in Fenway Park that come from "Rapid Fire."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Boston at the Democratic National Convention.
Coming up at the top of the hour, terror officials investigate possible new threats against an unlikely target at the Democratic Convention.
He's a top CIA official who wrote a scathing critique of the war on terror. The author known as Anonymous reacts to the new 9/11 report.
Plus, your bank account, credit cards, even your identity at risk from a devious e-mail scam. How to protect yourself, information you need to know.
Those stories, much more only minutes away on a special edition of "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARVILLE: It's time for "Rapid Fire," where we toss out questions even faster than Curt Schilling will be throwing pitches on the mound tonight.
Our guests are Ron Kaufman, who was White House political director under President Bush I, and Ann Lewis, who was White House communications director under the last elected president of the United States, President William Jefferson Clinton.
NOVAK: Ann, the Democratic chairmen of California and Ohio say that when Mayor Menino of Boston addresses the convention to welcome it, they will walk out because of his dispute with the police union. Should they walk out?
LEWIS: They should make the decision that's right for them and for their delegates.
CARVILLE: Ron, getting rid of politics, will the Red Sox win the World Series in your lifetime?
KAUFMAN: I hope so, James, but I think I'm going to be 127 when they finally win the World Series, James.
NOVAK: Nobody talks about gun control in the Democrats anymore. Have you had orders not to talk about gun control?
LEWIS: No, not at all. We want to talk about why this president, who said he was for an assaults weapons ban, is now backing away from it. And I think that's an issue we'll hear more in fall, because if the assault weapons ban expires, that makes our children are more exposed to danger and that means police officers are more exposed to danger. We ought to return that ban, renew the assault weapons ban. And George Bush ought to do what he said he would do and stand up for it.
CARVILLE: What happened to the president's plan to cut Social Security? Will he be reintroducing that as part of his second-term agenda?
KAUFMAN: I think that the president is going to do a good job in his second term. I'm glad you know, James, there will be a second term. CARVILLE: Really?
KAUFMAN: And he'll address all of the problems that we're handling that he did the first term.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: He didn't do anything the first term.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Ann, since the Democrats think this war was a big mistake, with the convention pass a resolution of support to Saddam Hussein?
LEWIS: You ought to read the Democratic platform and hear John Kerry talk about how we're going to be a stronger America, respected in the world.
(BELL RINGING)
LEWIS: And we're going to keep working for a secure, democratic and pluralistic Iraq.
NOVAK: Ann Lewis, thank you very much. Ron Kaufman, thank you.
Next, we're joined by a candidate for president who's green with envy over all of the attention John Kerry is getting around Boston these days.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NOVAK: These days, it isn't enough for a sports team simply to have a name like the Red Sox. They also have to have a mascot. Since Fenway Park, America's most beloved ballpark, is famous for its left field wall known as the Green Monster, some genius decided the perfect mascot would be a green monster named Wally.
CARVILLE: Hey, OK, Wally. The Sox are 8 1/2 back. It's late July. Yes or no, can they catch the Yankees and win the division? Wally, your nose is growing. Your nose is growing, Wally.
NOVAK: Wally, I was looking at your platform. It sounds like a left-wing liberal platform. Are you a liberal?
CARVILLE: All right.
NOVAK: OK.
CARVILLE: Wally, have you seen "Fahrenheit 9/11"?
NOVAK: OK. Thank you very much, Wally.
The Democrats may be holding their convention next week, but that's hardly any reason to skip CROSSFIRE. So we'll be on as usual at 4:30 p.m. Eastern. Monday, we'll be at Boston's famous Faneuil Hall. Be sure to join us.
CARVILLE: From the left, I'm James Carville.
And, Wally, that's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE, without the Green Monster.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
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