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Paula Zahn Now

Highs and Lows of Democratic National Convention

Aired July 30, 2004 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Four years in the making, 5,000 delegates, 100,000 bulky balloons, $15 million for security, the highs.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I'm reporting for duty.

LIN: The lows, the mistakes.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: I'm sorry. That scared me.

LIN: The convention you didn't see. And:

ALEXANDRA KERRY, DAUGHTER OF JOHN KERRY: My dad hunched over the soggy hamster and began to administer CPR.

LIN: Hamsters for Kerry.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Good evening. And thanks for joining us. Paula is off tonight. I'm Carol Lin.

So the party is over. The Democrats have had their four days of spectacle in Boston. John Kerry has set off on a 15-day, 3,500-mile Believe in America Tour. And a month from now, we do it all again in New York with President Bush and the Republicans. But the world didn't stop this week. Other news happened. And that's where we begin tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "FAHRENHEIT 9/11")

MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER: With everything going wrong, he did what any of us would do. He went on vacation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN (voice-over): Michael Moore's documentary, "Fahrenheit 9/11," which has grossed more than $100 million, was screened smack- dab in the middle of Bush country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael Moore picked Crawford to try and insult Bush. And I think it's probably a bad idea, because people in Crawford really support Bush.

LIN: Moore invited the president to attend. A White House spokeswoman says, I don't think.

Everybody's favorite Internet campaign send-up came under attack. The music publisher who owns the rights to "This Land Is Your Land" says the parody has done huge damage to Woody Guthrie's classic folk song.

Reunited with her twin sister, after six weeks of treatment, Mary-Kate Olsen was released from a clinic. A source close to Olsen did tell CNN she was undergoing treatment for an eating disorder.

BRITNEY SPEARS, SINGER (singing): Oops, I did it again.

LIN: Yes, she has. Britney Spears, married once for just 55 hours, is hoping this one will last a bit longer. She's planning a fall cabala wedding to fiance Kevin Federline.

Rap diva Lil' Kim back in federal court pleading not guilty before she heads to trial in February on charges of conspiracy and obstruction of justice after a shooting in 2001 with a rival hip-hop artist.

As we watched Bill Clinton enthrall the Democrats in Boston.

WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: After three conventions as a candidate or a president, tonight, I come to you as a citizen.

LIN: Monica Lewinsky celebrated her 31st birthday in the Big Apple. A United Airlines flight from Sydney, Australia, to Los Angeles was forced to turn back when a suspicious note was found on an air sickness bag.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just suddenly brings it home how affected by the terrorism we really are. But it's a very real threat.

LIN: Official says the note said either bomb or Bob. Better safe than sorry.

Getting set to go public. The No. 1 Internet search engine Google went down briefly after an attack by the My Doom virus. Some experts blame the high share prices as possible motive for a jealous hacker to attack the site.

Bill Cosby kept at it.

BILL COSBY, COMEDIAN: We've got to get parenting to the first order.

LIN: At a college conference in South Carolina explaining the controversial comments he made earlier this month about African- Americans and poor parenting.

We got a glimpse of how Saddam Hussein may be spending his time in prison. Britain's "Guardian" newspaper says he's writing poetry, gardening, reading the Koran, and snacking on American muffins and cookies. Recent reports from his attorneys say he's not well and we're not sure that diet will keep him in good health.

MARTHA STEWART, CONVICTED FELON: And I'll be back. I will be back. Whatever I have to do in the next few months, I hope the months go by quickly.

LIN: In fact, Martha Stewart will not be back as the chairman and CEO of her company. Martha Stewart Omnimedia has promoted a member of the board of directors, Thomas C. Siekman, to the position of chairman.

For the first time, we saw video of Scott Peterson in court during his trial for the murder of his pregnant wife, Laci Peterson. And for the third time, Peterson's lawyer, Mark Geragos, tried and failed to get the murder charges against his client dismissed.

THELMA SOARES, MOTHER OF LORI HACKING: She's my only daughter. Please help us find her one way or another.

LIN: An emotional statement from the mother of missing Utah jogger Lori Hacking. Hacking's husband is not officially a suspect in the case, although investigators refer to him as the only person of interest that police are naming.

The last name of Kobe Bryant's accuser popped up on the Colorado Judicial Branch Court Web site. It's the third time a court official in the Bryant case released information about Bryant's accuser that was supposed to remain confidential. At the end of today's court proceedings, Judge Terry Ruckriegle apologized. "I can only assure you," he said, "that I have learned lessons from these mistakes and that we will give our best human effort not to let it happen again."

The accuser's personal attorney says his client no longer trusts the judge or the court.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Now we're going to dig more deeply into the news in the Kobe Bryant and Scott Peterson cases.

Joining us now, Court TV correspondent and former prosecutor Amanda Grove, and from Albany, New York, criminal defense attorney Jayne Weintraub.

LIN: Hi, Jayne, Amanda. It's good to see you.

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hey, Carol. How are you?

LIN: I'm doing just great.

Amanda, let me begin with you.

We heard the apology from the judge in the Kobe Bryant case. What we didn't hear was a specific plan of action as to how he could prevent the accuser's name from going public once again. Does the accuser have any legal recourse to force the court to protect her name?

AMANDA GROVE, COURT TV: Well, I think we're going to see a lot of things in the future. I know for a fact that the accuser has hired the Ramseys' former attorney, Lin Wood, and they talked about this is to protect her privacy interests, her rights. And I have a feeling that we may see some civil action in the future with respect to the wrongs that have been done to her.

With respect to the court, we did see an open apology by the judge in open court directed at the parents primarily. We know he is issuing a letter on behalf of the entire court's staff, but the accuser's attorney has asked the judge in a motion to stop putting these motions, orders, etcetera, on the Web site. And the judge has yet to rule on that motion.

So there is some serious work that the judge still has to do and he's not doing it so far.

LIN: Jane, three times, three times, this woman's name has been made public by the court. Don't you think the judge needs to take legal action right now to stop this? He should stop the e-mails, stop the posting on the Internet?

(CROSSTALK)

WEINTRAUB: I don't think that it's for the judge to do. I think the judge can issue an order ordering the clerk's office to make sure that it's done right, but that's all that the judge can do.

A, there is public access to the court. And in a case such as this with such a high profile, the media would be complaining if it wasn't posted on the Internet. But, as for the clerk's office, there is no recourse at this time. There's nothing to say it's intentional, although it looks a little hokey.

LIN: One of the attorneys representing the accuser has said that several times she has thought about backing out of this case.

(CROSSTALK)

WEINTRAUB: Well, wouldn't you?

LIN: Well, what if the accuser decides that she is not going to take the stand, she is not going testify in this case? Does this mean that the prosecution's case is going to go down the drain?

WEINTRAUB: Well, actually, the first question is, should it go down the drain? And the answer is, yes, they don't have a case. And the prosecutor can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the injuries that are alleged

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Contingent upon her testifying, Jayne? WEINTRAUB: But the question is, can they force her to testify? Yes. If she refuses to testify, they can still subpoena her. And technically they could compel her testimony, Carol. It's an awful thing to think about, but they could do it.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Amanda.

GROVE: Carol, I have to say, this really is the worst case that this could happen in, because what you have is a very sensitive case. You've got rape shield laws in effect.

You have a person, a victim, an alleged victim, whose privacy is really of the utmost importance at this stage, pretrial. And three times the court has released her name via this Web site. And one would think that the defense attorney, you know, that the court is helping the defense intimidate this witness. They've done nothing wrong. The defense attorneys have done nothing wrong. This is coming from the court, which is supposed to protect the victim.

So it's an interesting twist at this point.

WEINTRAUB: Excuse me, Amanda. I thought the courts were supposed to protect both sides and make sure that the defendant gets a fair trial as well as the state, you know, both sides, not supposed to protect the victim?

(CROSSTALK)

GROVE: Absolutely, Jayne.

(CROSSTALK)

GROVE: And I agree with you. I agree with you.

But when we have an alleged rape victim, often, the same things when you have children

(CROSSTALK)

GROVE: The judge definitely and the court, they have to make sure that that name is not released. And the defense team has been perfect on that score. They've done nothing. And you've got the court making this kind of error.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Let me ask you about this, Jayne, because it goes to this question. The transcripts in which her name was mentioned, there is a debate now going on. And Justice Breyer has already weighed in on the decision here, directing the judge in this case to release all the transcripts of this closed-door hearing where this woman's sexual history was discussed, DNA testing was discussed.

The media, several media outlets are petitioning once again to have all of those transcripts, not the edited versions. Is there value to this, Jayne, Amanda? Quick question.

WEINTRAUB: Here is the real problem, Carol. It's a constitutional issue and it goes broader than just Kobe Bryant. You have to have the same and consistent rulings.

The question is whether or not there can be a prior restraint on the press. This is not a matter where it was unsealed. This is a matter where the news media got it by accident. It's like the cat is out of the bag already. Now, does the judge have the right constitutionally to order the media not to disseminate this information that they have? It's not that he's going to let them get.

Once the cat is out of the bag, what Justice Breyer is saying is really, I'm sorry, but it's too bad. It's going to come out. And also, what Justice Breyer implied by his ruling was, let it come out in an edited version. Don't make me rule on this. So that's what they're doing now. They're going to release an edited version.

(CROSSTALK)

GROVE: And what Justice Breyer was saying, this is a constitutional -- it's a huge issue, First Amendment issue. Prior restraint is something you can't usually...

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: All right, thanks very much.

Amanda Grove, Jayne Weintraub, thank you both.

WEINTRAUB: Thanks, Carol.

LIN: Next, we turn from some of the big stories of the week to the mega-story in Boston, Wolf and Judy with some convention moments you didn't see -- behind the scenes when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: It went off almost completely unscripted. From Former President Clinton's rousing speech Monday night, to the address by rising star Barack Obama on Tuesday, to John Kerry reporting for duty last night, it was a convention in which almost nothing unexpected happened.

But there was plenty that television could not convey, the highs, the lows, the odd moments.

We talked about those and a lot more with Wolf Blitzer, anchor of "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" and "LATE EDITION," and INSIDE POLITICS anchor Judy Woodruff.

I started by asking Wolf what it was like to broadcast from the convention floor for the first time, instead of a booth far from the action.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: This year, we had the very sophisticated new technology. We had these earpieces that were molded inside that would drown out all the sound. And we had these tiny little directional microphones that would put up what we were saying. But if you even moved them a little bit away from the so-called sweet spot, they wouldn't pick up anything. So it didn't pick up all the extraneous noise, didn't bleed in.

It was actually very excellent. And, even in the middle -- and I think Judy will agree -- when it was about as loud as it ever gets during a convention, we were talking to each other and we were talking to our directors and our producers. And it worked remarkably well.

LIN: What do you think the biggest difference is for audiences, though. To most people, so you're on the convention floor. How does it change the way you communicate with the audience and the information that you get?

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Well, I think it gives the audience, Carol, a much closer sense of the convention. We were right down there on the floor, as Wolf said. We were not just looking at these delegates. We were surrounded by delegates. They were walking by our platform every night, every afternoon.

They were stopping to talk to us when we were not on the air during commercial breaks. So I think, you know, if you're going to cover a convention, you need to be where the action is.

LIN: Right.

And, Wolf, as much as this convention was to be very scripted, a very scripted event by the Democrats, what, for you, were some of the surprises that you experienced, some high points and low points?

BLITZER: Well, I guess the major unscripted event was Al Sharpton's speech. He was budgeted to speak for about six minutes and he got a carefully crafted speech. They released the advanced text before he spoke.

Every speaker, in fact, was required by the Democratic Party to come up with an advanced text. Nobody was supposed to speak off the cuff. He went off that script and spoke for about 20 minutes and I'm sure gave some of the Kerry-Edwards campaign officials and the Democratic Party officials a little heartburn.

LIN: Judy, I heard that the Democratic National Convention is a little bit like a rock concert for political junkies, the parties, the whole thing.

WOODRUFF: Well, you know, that's what I hear, too, at this convention. I know there was a lot going on in this town. Every day, we would get a calendar of events and there would be something like 40 or 50 different events going on, because these delegations, they're meeting every day. They're hearing from not just candidates this year, but future candidates down the line. They were very busy.

We pretty much stuck to our work around the convention center, yes.

LIN: Oh, Judy, I'm so disappointed.

(LAUGHTER)

LIN: Does Wolf have any?

Come on, Wolf, you're a party animal. Share a few choice tidbits off the screen.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Yes.

BLITZER: I'll admit -- I'll admit, last night, after the whole thing was over, Time Warner had a party over at the Roxy Club in Boston and some of the younger members of our team wanted to go. So I went along with them and I walked inside. LL Cool J was performing.

And I have to tell you, Carol and Judy, it was so loud, it made what was going on in the FleetCenter sound like a quiet little event. And after about a minute or two, I had to get out of there because my eardrums were exploding. It was that loud. But maybe it's a generational kind of thing.

LIN: Judy, for you, what was the absolute pinnacle moment that you're going to take away from this convention?

WOODRUFF: Well, we've talked about the unity.

I think it was really a sequence of good speeches. I think Bill Clinton gave a good speech on the first night. Certainly, Barack Obama, the rising star in this party running for United States Senate in Illinois, gave a great speech on Tuesday night, probably the best of the convention. I think John Kerry did very well. I think the expectations for him were not very high, and I think he exceeded that.

I think the Democrats are coming away from this convention feeling pretty good. We'll see where they go. We've got 95 days to go, though, until the election -- Wolf.

LIN: Wolf.

BLITZER: I think I take away from all of these conventions -- and I'm just an old kind of, I guess, political news junky -- the history of what's going on.

The American people are about to elect a president of the United States. And this is a major part of the whole process, the nomination, the acceptance speeches. And I'm just thrilled that I had a chance to observe up close the history of what was happening, because you know, no matter what happens on November 2, people are going to be talking about John Edwards and John Kerry and their speeches and this convention for years to come. And I just am happy to be there.

LIN: And we're going to be following your coverage. Thanks very much, Judy, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks.

WOODRUFF: Thanks, Carol.

I'm just glad that Wolf knows who LL Cool J is.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Our Wolf Blitzer and Judy Woodruff.

Coming up next, the convention as entertainment. Was it spectacle or schlock? We'll ask the critics.

And later, some of the funniest moments, planned and otherwise.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Image is everything. And last night, during the carefully scripted convention, the Democrats seemed to do everything possible to give their candidate the image of strength.

Well, first, there was the video, a nine-minute biography of Senator Kerry narrated by actor Morgan Freeman and made with the help of Oscar-winning director Steven Spielberg. And then veterans of Vietnam, Kerry's crewmates from the swift boat he commanded, gathered on stage to introduce the nominee. Center stage was former Senator Max Cleland of Georgia, who lost both legs and an arm in the war.

And then there was Kerry's entrance. He emerged from the back of the room and shook hands with those standing along the aisle. Some analysts say it evoked the message of a president entering the Capitol to give a State of the Union address.

So how effective was the Democratic show?

Joining me for a critical look at convention, Stephen Battaglio, senior correspondent for "TV Guide," and from Detroit, Elvis Mitchell, film critic for "The New York Times."

Good to see both of you.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Stephen, let me start with you.

Anything about that grand entrance and that speech last night resonate with you?

STEPHEN BATTAGLIO, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, "TV GUIDE": I think the idea was to create a speech not that just a lot of people would watch last night, but something that would make great sound bites and great video clips for the rest of the weekend.

(CROSSTALK)

BATTAGLIO: And they got that. They got the good pictures. They got strength. They got some personality, a little bit of warmth. And Kerry, seen as aloof, was walking through the crowd and touching, being more a man of the people. I think they communicated some of that last night.

Elvis, did it resonate with you?

ELVIS MITCHELL, FILM CRITIC, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Yes, absolutely.

What you could see that Kerry did was, it was almost like he treated the week, the days before, as kind of a master class. He took a little bit from Obama, a little bit even from his wife, the way he was sort of relaxed and seemed very at ease, startlingly so, as a matter of fact.

He lifted a little bit from everybody, even the use of the family stuff that he seemed to pick up from Edwards. It was all sort of engineered so that, finally, he has sort of acquired what he needed to seem, at least act sort of like a real man of the people and a possible candidate, instead of a man who was a little bit too intense.

I even saw a bit of Al Sharpton, the way he was kind of walking through, working the crowd a little bit. He did everything but kind of roll up his sleeves and start shaking hands and kissing babies.

(LAUGHTER)

MITCHELL: He did what you want to see a politician do. He was acting presidential.

LIN: Right. Right.

Well, Stephen, do you think, though, with the obvious symbolism of having his swift boat crew up on stage, having Max Cleland, a legless Vietnam War veteran, do the introduction, do you think, in a way, that it was too obvious?

BATTAGLIO: Look, a lot of people are still learning who this guy is. We know that about half of the country is unhappy with the president and will look closely at an alternative.

MITCHELL: You can't be too obvious when you are trying to make these sort of bold, sweeping moments that people are going to talk about, hopefully.

BATTAGLIO: No, no, you're absolutely right. What we in the media get caught up in is that we think everybody watches as much of this as we do. And they don't. Viewers don't. They're going on with their lives, their jobs, doing other things.

LIN: Right.

MITCHELL: Quite a few people saw it on the morning show this morning. That's really the way everybody caught up with the convention. And that is the sad thing about this convention, that the networks stayed away because they thought there would be no drama. And in sort of actual terms of trying to see what the platform is going to be built into, there wasn't that kind of drama. But there was real theater. There were a bunch of great speeches.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: And theater in the sense that now these candidates feel compelled to make these DVD home videos of themselves telling their life story, John Kerry trying to humanize himself.

MITCHELL: Yes, aren't you guys showing the best stuff in the commercial break, the best of these things are going to last 40 years?

BATTAGLIO: Well, you can be sure that the film last night that people saw will be cut down into commercials and it will probably run throughout the campaign.

LIN: Do you think that the campaigns are effectively using the children, John Edwards' young twins, John Kerry's attractive daughters?

BATTAGLIO: They're all great-looking kids and they're very appealing and they have an incredible amount of poise. So, sure, why not? Why wouldn't you send them out there?

MITCHELL: Of course, you have got to do that, because you know the Bush twins, basically, are -- nobody knows what to do with them. So the idea of actually having your kids coming out and campaigning for you and seeming like credible adults who really have something invested in the politics of this country is a real different kind of statement. And I think that's a crucial thing to have be part of a presidential campaign.

BATTAGLIO: And the Democrats don't want the Republicans to corner the market on family values as well, which is why you're seeing them embrace the family, the spouses, the children.

MITCHELL: Or eligible bachelors, too, for "People" magazine, for that matter.

(LAUGHTER)

BATTAGLIO: Yes.

LIN: Yes, we'll talk about Ben Affleck another time.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Thanks very much, Elvis Mitchell, Stephen Battaglio.

MITCHELL: Thank you.

BATTAGLIO: Pleasure.

LIN: When we return, some unconventional views of the Democrats' big week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDY BOROWITZ, BOROWITZREPORT.COM: It's not because of her money at all. I just think that she is undeniably hot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

LIN: He's talking about Teresa Heinz Kerry, just one of the many Democrats in the sights of satirist Andy Borowitz.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: The Democratic national convention isn't usually considered a comedy show, but there were more than a few funny moments at this week's event in Boston. Our own Bruce Burkhardt was watching and chuckling.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRUCE BURKHARDT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Well, it's been quite an honor to be in Boston this week covering this convention because, you know, CNN only sends its very top reporters to cover events like this.

I think the thing that I'll remember -- all right, so I wasn't in Boston.

Actually, I've been here in front of a TV clicking a remote watching not just all of the broadcast TV coverage, but also all of CNN's in-house feed cameras, cameras that roll all of the time and show a lot of stuff you don't see on TV.

(voice-over) Like how about Bono bumping in to Al Sharpton?

REV. AL SHARPTON, FMR. DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: Keep the pressure on both of them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got to get him on the stage.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where are we going?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This way. Get them to the back of the stage.

BURKHARDT: This also was not seen on TV. Democratic chairman Terry McAuliffe introducing Bill Richardson. He might be a sharp political operative but...

TERRY MCAULIFFE, DNC CHAIRMAN: (SPEAKING SPANISH) Bill Richardson. BURKHARDT: Being bilingual is clearly not part of the job description. Then there are the not ready for prime time speakers, lesser-known political figures who give rousing speeches in the afternoon. Problem is not many people around to be roused at that time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Values that will let us confront these threats while protecting our civil liberties and the environment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The stakes could not be higher. Thank you very much.

BURKHARDT: Boy, there was a lot of red meat in that speech. Red meat that seemed to be the hot phrase this convention, kind of like Nascar dads or soccer moms.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, Al Sharpton definitely provided the red meat.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And the first red meat tonight.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: I'd say this is about two ounces of red meat and 10 ounces of tofu.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got to give some red meat to the masses.

AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: If that's red meat, that's not even a Big Mac yet.

BURKHARDT: Of course, all of this was red meat for the late night comics.

DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST CBS "LATE NIGHT WITH DAVID LETTERMAN": This is the CNN Democratic national convention highlight of the night.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" HOST: Once the gavel goes down at 4:00 today, this convention is...

BURKHARDT: Meanwhile, Jay Leno nailed down an exclusive interview with John Kerry.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Jay, I am so happy.

JAY LENO, HOST, NBC "TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO": Senator, you don't look happy.

KERRY: Oh, just a minute. How's that?

BURKHARDT: But comedians weren't the only ones making jokes.

AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: After all, I don't want you to think that I lie awake at night counting and recounting sheep.

BURKHARDT: Al Gore, himself, the butt of jokes four years ago because of a lingering kiss.

He kept it shorter this time.

But it all ended with balloons, a real nuisance for our anchors. It was the first time TV news anchored from the floor of the convention. They paid the price.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: A bit of chaos down here on the floor.

BURKHARDT: Our Jeff Greenfield had no choice but to "shove it" out of the way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: That was Bruce Burkhardt. And joining me now, a man who knows a funny moment when he sees one, humorist Andy Borowitz who was at this week's convention in Boston.

Andy, I had no idea it was your first convention. You had never been to one before.

ANDY BOROWITZ, HUMORIST, "THE BOROWITZ REPORT": I had never been to one. I think I went to one model U.N. But that doesn't really count. It was amazing. And I don't think you ever forget your first.

LIN: What stood out for you, any surprises?

BOROWITZ: Well, I don't know so much surprises, but I just thought that everything Teresa touched turned to gold.

LIN: You have a big crush on her, don't you? Teresa Heinz Kerry we're talking about here.

BOROWITZ: Yes, I've made it no secret. You're looking at husband number three right here.

LIN: Not that you project any ill will onto John Kerry.

BOROWITZ: No, I hope -- I'm sure they have a very happy marriage. But it's just -- I think it's just good for her to for Teresa know there are other options waiting in the wings.

And it's not because of her money at all. I just think that she is undeniably hot. I really do.

LIN: Why?

BOROWITZ: You know, it's that element of unpredictability. She -- how can I describe it? She's almost like a magic 8-ball. You know, you just shake her up and who knows what she's going to say. And I think that's going to make it a great campaign.

LIN: Like telling a reporter to allegedly...

BOROWITZ: Shove it -- yes. I like that. I'm sure since it's Teresa, she meant well.

You know actually I heard that in Mozambique, shove it actually means the same thing as shalom. It's like hello, good-bye.

LIN: A form of greeting.

BOROWITZ: It is.

LIN: Well, we'll have to check our sources on that one.

Were there other surprises for you, though? I mean, I hear that it's a big party scene.

BOROWITZ: It was.

LIN: Everybody complaining that the convention was terribly scripted, except for a few beautiful moments.

BOROWITZ: Yes. I mean I was a little bit disappointed with John Edwards, I've got to say. I just heard this today that he's actually retracted his statement that there are two Americas. He said he got that information from Mapquest.

LIN: Oh, really?

BOROWITZ: Yes. So I think that was, I thought, sort of a downer.

But I thought, you know, I thought Obama was fantastic. I thought that there was a lot of great speeches being made. There was that problem with the balloons, though, that did trouble me.

LIN: Yes.

BOROWITZ: I was listening...

LIN: Was it the fact that the balloons didn't come down on time or the fact that the director was swearing on the air waves?

BOROWITZ: I was listening to that thing in the booth, you know, in the balloon booth. And I was thinking why would the Democrats entrust Cheney with cuing the balloons? It just didn't seem like a good move.

(Crosstalk)

BOROWITZ: I think that was the guy.

LIN: That's embarrassing.

BOROWITZ: It was a little bit embarrassing. But, you know, I think that Kerry stepped up. I loved that, you know, that little salute, you know -- reporting for duty.

LIN: Yes. BOROWITZ: It's going to really sort of raise the bar, I think, for President Bush with his speech, because he's going to probably have to allude to his military service. And I think I heard this day that he's going to start his speech by saying, I'm George Bush and I can explain where I've been the last couple of weeks.

So I think that's good. I think will be a good, sort of a rousing start.

LIN: Are you going to go to the Republican convention?

BOROWITZ: I would not miss it. I would not miss it.

LIN: How do you think the two are going to compare?

BOROWITZ: I've got to say Laura does not do it for me the same way Teresa does. I think Laura is very -- she is very contained. She's very well-behaved, so I think that will not --

Let me say, the Republicans seem like they would drop the balloons properly. That seems like the kind of thing they would get right. They're very good at dropping things on people. But I don't know.

LIN: No pun intended?

BOROWITZ: No, no, no. But I think we're going to be there. It's right, happening right here in New York. We're not going to miss that.

LIN: Do you think the party scene is going to differ on the Republican convention? I heard the Democrats...

BOROWITZ: Yes.

LIN: ... know how to party hard.

Wolf Blitzer was talking about L.L. Cool J earlier.

BOROWITZ: He was...

LIN: He was...

BOROWITZ: He was partying with L.L. Cool J?

LIN: He was partying with L.L. Cool J?

BOROWITZ: You know, I was -- I did a number of the parties, and I think basically the rule of thumb for how to determine whether it was a hot party or not was that if you scanned the room and I was there, that means it was not a hot party.

I did not attend any parties with any bold-faced names at all. I just did not.

I think like one of the kids from "Welcome Back Cotter" was at one of mine. But other than that, I did not recognize anybody.

LIN: Well, you know Ben Affleck was everywhere and with everyone.

BOROWITZ: Ben was there. He was, and partying with the Kerry sisters. You know, and I don't know what that's all about.

They're actually not even the political daughters I'm into. I'm really into the little known Nader twins. Have you heard about them? They're exciting.

LIN: Well, we might at the general election.

BOROWITZ: We might.

LIN: Let's hope not, actually. Thanks very much, Andy Borowitz.

BOROWITZ: Thanks, Carol.

LIN: And when we come back, mightier than the sword and twice as sharp, the pen of the political cartoonists.

And then later, furry, four-legged spin from the Kerry campaign.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: There isn't a political issue they can't spoof, a politician they can't ridicule or an event they can't poke fun at. They're America's political cartoonists, and this week's convention gave them a lot of material to work with.

Our own Tom Foreman had a chance to watch them in action.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pen and ink, light and line. The nation's political cartoonists are busy with the serious work of being funny. And Mike Luckovich with the "Atlanta Journal-Constitution" is on the prowl.

MIKE LUCKOVICH, "ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION: I'm just trying to talk to as many people as I can.

FOREMAN: Looking for information, illumination.

LUCKOVICH: Hi, I'm Mike Luckovich.

MICHAEL MOORE, "FAHRENHEIT 9/11": I know who you are. I saw you earlier.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How you doing, man?

FOREMAN: Inspiration.

LUCKOVICH: I kind of like to do cartoons on people I don't like so much. FOREMAN (on camera): Is that because they're funny or because there's more food for thought?

LUCKOVICH: Yes, you know, you can kind -- you can kind of puncture them a little bit.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Almost all the big cartoonists are here, members of a slightly deranged fraternity. Most favor one point of view about public foolishness.

Luckovich leans liberal, on the left and to the left is Tom Tomorrow.

TOM TOMORROW, "THIS MODERN WORLD": What the cartoonist is, the political cartoonist, is doing in the best case scenario is just putting the finger on what that foolishness is so the people go, oh yes, of course, that's him.

FOREMAN: Mike Ramirez is a conservative drawing for "The Los Angeles Times." Yet he, like all of the others, often scours his own side.

MIKE RAMIREZ, "THE LOS ANGELES TIMES": We're not drawing it as a Republican, you know, a member of the Republican party or the Democrat party. We're drawing it as a member of the anti-stupid party.

FOREMAN (on camera): Do you see yourself first as a journalist?

RAMIREZ: Absolutely.

FOREMAN: Is that common for political cartoonists?

RAMIREZ: I think -- I think it is for the most part and it absolutely should be, because that's what we do.

ROBERT BEDARD, CARTOON EXHIBIT CURATOR: Is this a recent cartoon that was done.

FOREMAN (voice-over): A few blocks away Suffolk University is honoring this American tradition way back to when the first states were uniting and Ben Franklin was drawing.

BEDARD: And he did a depiction of a snake cut into nine pieces and the message below it was, "join or die," meaning join the union or die individually.

FOREMAN: In the 1890s, the yellow kid poked fun and the exploitive news stories that ran alongside were soon called yellow journalism.

It's much more respectable work now. Back at the convention, Luckovich has another target, former presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich.

FOREMAN (on camera): When someone like Mike draws you, is that a compliment? LUCKOVICH: Just say yes.

DENNIS KUCINICH (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: To be drawn by Luckovich is to be blessed, but to be cornered by him is not a compliment.

LUCKOVICH: Thank you.

FOREMAN: That must make you feel very good!

LUCKOVICH: Well, see when you meet a guy like that, he's so damn nice!

FOREMAN (voice-over): Nice or not, within an hour, Kucinich is a full head shorter and a good bit funnier. And funny is key.

LUCKOVICH: If I do a cartoon that hits a person over the head just getting my point across, it's more easily dismissed, I think.

FOREMAN: Ramirez is watching John Kerry and thinking the same thing.

RAMIREZ: If you make it interesting enough, if you make it funny enough, then you're going to draw readers that you don't normally get; and they're going to look at the cartoon, and by the time they get the point, it's too late. You got them.

FOREMAN: And this is the task for political cartoonists -- every day to descend into a murky world where positions are constantly shifting and turn the shades of gray into their vision of black and white.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And that was Tom Foreman.

Joining me now, two of those political cartoonists. In Boston, Mike Ramirez of the "Los Angeles Times" and in Atlanta, Mike Luckovich of the "Atlanta Journal-Constitution."

Both cartoonists, by the way, have won Pulitzer prizes. And I understand both of you are pretty competitive with each other.

RAMIREZ: Hey, Carol. Mike who from Atlanta?

LIN: Yes, I'm sure you don't watch each other's work.

Hey listen, Mike Luckovich.

LUCKOVICH: Yes.

LIN: You have said that President Bush is one of the funnest people to draw, but also one of the most difficult. We want to share some of your work but explain why.

LUCKOVICH: OK. You know, he actually is a difficult person to draw. His nose is inhumanly small and he's got very small eyes. But whoever is president becomes my favorite character to draw. It's like Jim Davis draws Garfield and that's his character.

Well, for four years or eight years, my favorite character is whoever is president. And so I love drawing Bush.

LIN: Yes, I love the ears. And it seems like he's shrinking in your cartoons. He's getting smaller.

LUCKOVICH: You know, after 9/11, he became very big. And then as I've gotten more and more angry with him over Iraq and over the environment and the economy, he gets tinier and tinier, but the ears keep getting bigger.

LIN: Mike Ramirez, you're laughing at what Mike Luckovich is saying.

RAMIREZ: What Mike is saying is absolutely true and Mike is actually one of the finest political cartoonists in the country. And he does so well with humor because humor really transcends politics.

LIN: Yes.

RAMIREZ: People ought to be engaged. And our job is illuminate them on the issue, but we want to reach as many people as possible. And humor is a great tool to do that.

LIN: And John Kerry was clearly in both of your sites during the Democratic convention. I want to share some of the pictures with him.

How does he compare as a character with President Bush?

LUCKOVICH: Kerry is like the perfect cartoon character. I always compare him to those trees in "Lord of the Rings" those Ent trees, the Ents. You know, long, really long kind of gnarly looking and kind of slow-moving.

So he's really a great -- he would be a great person to have in office just from a cartoonist standpoint, I think. Right, Mike?

RAMIREZ: You know, obviously, he hasn't had a whole lot to do since he retired from the "Munster" show.

LIN: I don't know if you could make his jaw any longer, Mike Ramirez.

RAMIREZ: Well, you know, he's got that sour look on his face and it's probably because he's contemplating his Senate record, but...

LIN: Oh.

LUCKOVICH: Oh, man!

LIN: Opposing points of view.

RAMIREZ: He's got really great features and dynamic features for caricaturing.

LUCKOVICH: He does.

LIN: Mike Ramirez, how do you deal, though, with the tougher subjects like the hunt for Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein or the prison scandal at Abu Ghraib?

RAMIREZ: Well, you know, I think on certain subjects, you have to really be sensitive. I mean, we don't want to be controversial cartoons for the sake of controversy, like we don't want to do humorous cartoons just for the sake of humor.

LIN: Look at this one. This is the one that, Mike Ramirez, you did of Saddam Hussein. And that is not only a beard you drew, but are those individual bodies that make up his beard?

RAMIREZ: Right. It's piled up bodies and skulls and human remains. It's really -- it's a dramatic drawing for a notorious, notorious man.

LIN: And Mike Luckovich, Osama bin Laden, your depiction of him. We'll share that as well.

LUCKOVICH: Yes, I've got a drawing I just did of him. You know, even when you have a guy that's very evil, you want to mock him, because -- I mean, if I was drawing Hitler now, you know, I would just make him as goofy as I could.

I've got him here and instead of, "kiss me, I'm Irish, it's "kill me, I'm evil." He's a bad dude, so you've got to knock him.

LIN: Do you guys -- Mike Luckovich, do you ever look at Mike Ramirez's work and say, I wish I thought of that?

And Mike Ramirez, do you do the same? Do you guys track each other on the issues?

LUCKOVICH: You know, Mike is probably the best just natural artist of all of us. He does -- I look at his stuff and it just takes my breath away. He puts so much detail into each of his drawings. And so, there are times I look at that guy's stuff and think, dang, I wish I could draw like that.

RAMIREZ: I don't want to seem like we're just throwing out praises to each other, I hate Luckovich's stuff.

LUCKOVICH: Well.

RAMIREZ: Frankly -- no. Mike actually...

LIN: You've won a Pulitzer prize, but you're going for it. I mean, what -- the other cartoonists at the "The Los Angeles Times" have won multiple prizes and you want to be the first one to win four. That's competitive.

RAMIREZ: Well, you know, I would like to be the best there is. And Luckovich just has a mastery of humor. And it is so good at engaging the people.

LIN: All right.

RAMIREZ: But I think editorial cartoons ought to be substantive. They ought to be poignant. And Mike does that so well, companioned with humor.

LIN: President Clinton, rich material there. Both of you really enjoy drawing him, but do you enjoy drawing him because he's fun to draw or because there was so much -- there was so much material in his presidency?

LUCKOVICH: You know, he's got a very expressive face. He was always out in front of people talking. The thing about Bush is Bush is awfully programmed. They only cart him out and then they pull the curtain closed, so you only get brief glimpses of Bush.

Clinton was always out there and I just -- I just love his -- I just love his -- the way his personality. And this is my take on Clinton.

You know, he's a good-looking guy, but he's got some great features. He's got the bulbous nose, and the bags under the eyes, and the chipmunk cheeks and the chin.

LIN: Very cute.

LUCKOVICH: He's fun to draw.

LIN: Hey Mike Ramirez, Mike Luckovich came armed and ready to go. He's got several drawings on his desk. We'll look forward to seeing your work, too.

Mike Ramirez, Mike Luckovich, thank you both.

LUCKOVICH: Thanks so much.

LIN: And when we return, a Kerry daughter's pitch to a new breed of Democrat.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

If you haven't heard yet about John Kerry and his Vietnam war heroics, you just haven't been paying much attention. But it wasn't until last night at the Democratic convention that we heard about his hamster heroics.

Here is our Jeanne Moos on the politics of that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Democrats may have won over a very special interest group, "Hamsters For Kerry."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you believe John Kerry gave mouth-to- mouth to a hamster? MOOS: Well, maybe not mouth-to-mouth.

(on camera) Pretend is this a hamster.

DR. ELLEN HIRSHBERG, VETERINARIAN, ASPCA: It would be very gentle compressions. It's not like...

MOOS: CPR for hamsters became a campaign issue when John Kerry's daughter told one of her favorite stories about her dad.

ALEXANDRA KERRY, DAUGHTER OF SEN. JOHN KERRY: It's a silly story.

MOOS: Alexander Kerry and her sister were kids when their dog knocked a cage containing their pet hamster, Licorice, off a dock. John Kerry jumped into the water and rescued the hamster.

ALEXANDRA KERRY: Hunched over the soggy hamster and began to administer CPR.

MOOS: "The New York Times" called it the best John Kerry story at the convention. At the ASPCA, a veterinarian told us you could do CPR on a hamster and demonstrated on our fuzzy mic.

HIRSHBERG: But I would blow and compress, blow and compress.

MOOS: And we expect Senator Kerry blew off the blowing part.

ALEXANDRA KERRY: There are some reports of mouth-to-mouth, but I admit, it's probably a trick of memory.

MOOS: Which brings back memories of Eddie Murphy.

EDDIE MURPHY, ACTOR, "DR. DoCoMo 2": Do you know how to do CPR?

RAT, "DR. DOOLITTLE 2": CPR? I can't even spell it.

MOOS: Resuscitating a rat.

RAT: No tongue, doc! Eek!

ALEXANDRA KERRY: The hamster was never was quite right after that, but he lived.

MOOS: As for the hamster spin on the story, a Web site called "Hamsterific" listed Kerry as recommended.

This "Hamster for President" site was still pushing one of its own rather than Kerry for rodent in chief.

(on camera): Would President Bush jump in the water to save a hamster?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He'd probably send somebody.

MOOS: Do you think George Bush would give CPR to a hamster? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he'd probably fire on a hamster sooner.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wouldn't you turn the hamster upside down first and drain the water out?

HIRSHBERG: Like so.

MOOS: We are going to be so ready. If any of us sees a drowning hamster, we're going to be set.

(voice-over) And what might the little rodent say to those who accuse Democrats of pandering to the hamster vote? Kerry, better than cheese!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: That was Jeanne Moos.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Thank you so much for being with us tonight.

On Monday, why more states are trying to make gay marriages legal.

"LARRY KING LIVE" is up next. Good night.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired July 30, 2004 - 20:00   ET
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Four years in the making, 5,000 delegates, 100,000 bulky balloons, $15 million for security, the highs.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I'm reporting for duty.

LIN: The lows, the mistakes.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: I'm sorry. That scared me.

LIN: The convention you didn't see. And:

ALEXANDRA KERRY, DAUGHTER OF JOHN KERRY: My dad hunched over the soggy hamster and began to administer CPR.

LIN: Hamsters for Kerry.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Good evening. And thanks for joining us. Paula is off tonight. I'm Carol Lin.

So the party is over. The Democrats have had their four days of spectacle in Boston. John Kerry has set off on a 15-day, 3,500-mile Believe in America Tour. And a month from now, we do it all again in New York with President Bush and the Republicans. But the world didn't stop this week. Other news happened. And that's where we begin tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "FAHRENHEIT 9/11")

MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER: With everything going wrong, he did what any of us would do. He went on vacation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN (voice-over): Michael Moore's documentary, "Fahrenheit 9/11," which has grossed more than $100 million, was screened smack- dab in the middle of Bush country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael Moore picked Crawford to try and insult Bush. And I think it's probably a bad idea, because people in Crawford really support Bush.

LIN: Moore invited the president to attend. A White House spokeswoman says, I don't think.

Everybody's favorite Internet campaign send-up came under attack. The music publisher who owns the rights to "This Land Is Your Land" says the parody has done huge damage to Woody Guthrie's classic folk song.

Reunited with her twin sister, after six weeks of treatment, Mary-Kate Olsen was released from a clinic. A source close to Olsen did tell CNN she was undergoing treatment for an eating disorder.

BRITNEY SPEARS, SINGER (singing): Oops, I did it again.

LIN: Yes, she has. Britney Spears, married once for just 55 hours, is hoping this one will last a bit longer. She's planning a fall cabala wedding to fiance Kevin Federline.

Rap diva Lil' Kim back in federal court pleading not guilty before she heads to trial in February on charges of conspiracy and obstruction of justice after a shooting in 2001 with a rival hip-hop artist.

As we watched Bill Clinton enthrall the Democrats in Boston.

WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: After three conventions as a candidate or a president, tonight, I come to you as a citizen.

LIN: Monica Lewinsky celebrated her 31st birthday in the Big Apple. A United Airlines flight from Sydney, Australia, to Los Angeles was forced to turn back when a suspicious note was found on an air sickness bag.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just suddenly brings it home how affected by the terrorism we really are. But it's a very real threat.

LIN: Official says the note said either bomb or Bob. Better safe than sorry.

Getting set to go public. The No. 1 Internet search engine Google went down briefly after an attack by the My Doom virus. Some experts blame the high share prices as possible motive for a jealous hacker to attack the site.

Bill Cosby kept at it.

BILL COSBY, COMEDIAN: We've got to get parenting to the first order.

LIN: At a college conference in South Carolina explaining the controversial comments he made earlier this month about African- Americans and poor parenting.

We got a glimpse of how Saddam Hussein may be spending his time in prison. Britain's "Guardian" newspaper says he's writing poetry, gardening, reading the Koran, and snacking on American muffins and cookies. Recent reports from his attorneys say he's not well and we're not sure that diet will keep him in good health.

MARTHA STEWART, CONVICTED FELON: And I'll be back. I will be back. Whatever I have to do in the next few months, I hope the months go by quickly.

LIN: In fact, Martha Stewart will not be back as the chairman and CEO of her company. Martha Stewart Omnimedia has promoted a member of the board of directors, Thomas C. Siekman, to the position of chairman.

For the first time, we saw video of Scott Peterson in court during his trial for the murder of his pregnant wife, Laci Peterson. And for the third time, Peterson's lawyer, Mark Geragos, tried and failed to get the murder charges against his client dismissed.

THELMA SOARES, MOTHER OF LORI HACKING: She's my only daughter. Please help us find her one way or another.

LIN: An emotional statement from the mother of missing Utah jogger Lori Hacking. Hacking's husband is not officially a suspect in the case, although investigators refer to him as the only person of interest that police are naming.

The last name of Kobe Bryant's accuser popped up on the Colorado Judicial Branch Court Web site. It's the third time a court official in the Bryant case released information about Bryant's accuser that was supposed to remain confidential. At the end of today's court proceedings, Judge Terry Ruckriegle apologized. "I can only assure you," he said, "that I have learned lessons from these mistakes and that we will give our best human effort not to let it happen again."

The accuser's personal attorney says his client no longer trusts the judge or the court.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Now we're going to dig more deeply into the news in the Kobe Bryant and Scott Peterson cases.

Joining us now, Court TV correspondent and former prosecutor Amanda Grove, and from Albany, New York, criminal defense attorney Jayne Weintraub.

LIN: Hi, Jayne, Amanda. It's good to see you.

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hey, Carol. How are you?

LIN: I'm doing just great.

Amanda, let me begin with you.

We heard the apology from the judge in the Kobe Bryant case. What we didn't hear was a specific plan of action as to how he could prevent the accuser's name from going public once again. Does the accuser have any legal recourse to force the court to protect her name?

AMANDA GROVE, COURT TV: Well, I think we're going to see a lot of things in the future. I know for a fact that the accuser has hired the Ramseys' former attorney, Lin Wood, and they talked about this is to protect her privacy interests, her rights. And I have a feeling that we may see some civil action in the future with respect to the wrongs that have been done to her.

With respect to the court, we did see an open apology by the judge in open court directed at the parents primarily. We know he is issuing a letter on behalf of the entire court's staff, but the accuser's attorney has asked the judge in a motion to stop putting these motions, orders, etcetera, on the Web site. And the judge has yet to rule on that motion.

So there is some serious work that the judge still has to do and he's not doing it so far.

LIN: Jane, three times, three times, this woman's name has been made public by the court. Don't you think the judge needs to take legal action right now to stop this? He should stop the e-mails, stop the posting on the Internet?

(CROSSTALK)

WEINTRAUB: I don't think that it's for the judge to do. I think the judge can issue an order ordering the clerk's office to make sure that it's done right, but that's all that the judge can do.

A, there is public access to the court. And in a case such as this with such a high profile, the media would be complaining if it wasn't posted on the Internet. But, as for the clerk's office, there is no recourse at this time. There's nothing to say it's intentional, although it looks a little hokey.

LIN: One of the attorneys representing the accuser has said that several times she has thought about backing out of this case.

(CROSSTALK)

WEINTRAUB: Well, wouldn't you?

LIN: Well, what if the accuser decides that she is not going to take the stand, she is not going testify in this case? Does this mean that the prosecution's case is going to go down the drain?

WEINTRAUB: Well, actually, the first question is, should it go down the drain? And the answer is, yes, they don't have a case. And the prosecutor can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the injuries that are alleged

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Contingent upon her testifying, Jayne? WEINTRAUB: But the question is, can they force her to testify? Yes. If she refuses to testify, they can still subpoena her. And technically they could compel her testimony, Carol. It's an awful thing to think about, but they could do it.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Amanda.

GROVE: Carol, I have to say, this really is the worst case that this could happen in, because what you have is a very sensitive case. You've got rape shield laws in effect.

You have a person, a victim, an alleged victim, whose privacy is really of the utmost importance at this stage, pretrial. And three times the court has released her name via this Web site. And one would think that the defense attorney, you know, that the court is helping the defense intimidate this witness. They've done nothing wrong. The defense attorneys have done nothing wrong. This is coming from the court, which is supposed to protect the victim.

So it's an interesting twist at this point.

WEINTRAUB: Excuse me, Amanda. I thought the courts were supposed to protect both sides and make sure that the defendant gets a fair trial as well as the state, you know, both sides, not supposed to protect the victim?

(CROSSTALK)

GROVE: Absolutely, Jayne.

(CROSSTALK)

GROVE: And I agree with you. I agree with you.

But when we have an alleged rape victim, often, the same things when you have children

(CROSSTALK)

GROVE: The judge definitely and the court, they have to make sure that that name is not released. And the defense team has been perfect on that score. They've done nothing. And you've got the court making this kind of error.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Let me ask you about this, Jayne, because it goes to this question. The transcripts in which her name was mentioned, there is a debate now going on. And Justice Breyer has already weighed in on the decision here, directing the judge in this case to release all the transcripts of this closed-door hearing where this woman's sexual history was discussed, DNA testing was discussed.

The media, several media outlets are petitioning once again to have all of those transcripts, not the edited versions. Is there value to this, Jayne, Amanda? Quick question.

WEINTRAUB: Here is the real problem, Carol. It's a constitutional issue and it goes broader than just Kobe Bryant. You have to have the same and consistent rulings.

The question is whether or not there can be a prior restraint on the press. This is not a matter where it was unsealed. This is a matter where the news media got it by accident. It's like the cat is out of the bag already. Now, does the judge have the right constitutionally to order the media not to disseminate this information that they have? It's not that he's going to let them get.

Once the cat is out of the bag, what Justice Breyer is saying is really, I'm sorry, but it's too bad. It's going to come out. And also, what Justice Breyer implied by his ruling was, let it come out in an edited version. Don't make me rule on this. So that's what they're doing now. They're going to release an edited version.

(CROSSTALK)

GROVE: And what Justice Breyer was saying, this is a constitutional -- it's a huge issue, First Amendment issue. Prior restraint is something you can't usually...

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: All right, thanks very much.

Amanda Grove, Jayne Weintraub, thank you both.

WEINTRAUB: Thanks, Carol.

LIN: Next, we turn from some of the big stories of the week to the mega-story in Boston, Wolf and Judy with some convention moments you didn't see -- behind the scenes when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: It went off almost completely unscripted. From Former President Clinton's rousing speech Monday night, to the address by rising star Barack Obama on Tuesday, to John Kerry reporting for duty last night, it was a convention in which almost nothing unexpected happened.

But there was plenty that television could not convey, the highs, the lows, the odd moments.

We talked about those and a lot more with Wolf Blitzer, anchor of "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" and "LATE EDITION," and INSIDE POLITICS anchor Judy Woodruff.

I started by asking Wolf what it was like to broadcast from the convention floor for the first time, instead of a booth far from the action.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: This year, we had the very sophisticated new technology. We had these earpieces that were molded inside that would drown out all the sound. And we had these tiny little directional microphones that would put up what we were saying. But if you even moved them a little bit away from the so-called sweet spot, they wouldn't pick up anything. So it didn't pick up all the extraneous noise, didn't bleed in.

It was actually very excellent. And, even in the middle -- and I think Judy will agree -- when it was about as loud as it ever gets during a convention, we were talking to each other and we were talking to our directors and our producers. And it worked remarkably well.

LIN: What do you think the biggest difference is for audiences, though. To most people, so you're on the convention floor. How does it change the way you communicate with the audience and the information that you get?

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Well, I think it gives the audience, Carol, a much closer sense of the convention. We were right down there on the floor, as Wolf said. We were not just looking at these delegates. We were surrounded by delegates. They were walking by our platform every night, every afternoon.

They were stopping to talk to us when we were not on the air during commercial breaks. So I think, you know, if you're going to cover a convention, you need to be where the action is.

LIN: Right.

And, Wolf, as much as this convention was to be very scripted, a very scripted event by the Democrats, what, for you, were some of the surprises that you experienced, some high points and low points?

BLITZER: Well, I guess the major unscripted event was Al Sharpton's speech. He was budgeted to speak for about six minutes and he got a carefully crafted speech. They released the advanced text before he spoke.

Every speaker, in fact, was required by the Democratic Party to come up with an advanced text. Nobody was supposed to speak off the cuff. He went off that script and spoke for about 20 minutes and I'm sure gave some of the Kerry-Edwards campaign officials and the Democratic Party officials a little heartburn.

LIN: Judy, I heard that the Democratic National Convention is a little bit like a rock concert for political junkies, the parties, the whole thing.

WOODRUFF: Well, you know, that's what I hear, too, at this convention. I know there was a lot going on in this town. Every day, we would get a calendar of events and there would be something like 40 or 50 different events going on, because these delegations, they're meeting every day. They're hearing from not just candidates this year, but future candidates down the line. They were very busy.

We pretty much stuck to our work around the convention center, yes.

LIN: Oh, Judy, I'm so disappointed.

(LAUGHTER)

LIN: Does Wolf have any?

Come on, Wolf, you're a party animal. Share a few choice tidbits off the screen.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Yes.

BLITZER: I'll admit -- I'll admit, last night, after the whole thing was over, Time Warner had a party over at the Roxy Club in Boston and some of the younger members of our team wanted to go. So I went along with them and I walked inside. LL Cool J was performing.

And I have to tell you, Carol and Judy, it was so loud, it made what was going on in the FleetCenter sound like a quiet little event. And after about a minute or two, I had to get out of there because my eardrums were exploding. It was that loud. But maybe it's a generational kind of thing.

LIN: Judy, for you, what was the absolute pinnacle moment that you're going to take away from this convention?

WOODRUFF: Well, we've talked about the unity.

I think it was really a sequence of good speeches. I think Bill Clinton gave a good speech on the first night. Certainly, Barack Obama, the rising star in this party running for United States Senate in Illinois, gave a great speech on Tuesday night, probably the best of the convention. I think John Kerry did very well. I think the expectations for him were not very high, and I think he exceeded that.

I think the Democrats are coming away from this convention feeling pretty good. We'll see where they go. We've got 95 days to go, though, until the election -- Wolf.

LIN: Wolf.

BLITZER: I think I take away from all of these conventions -- and I'm just an old kind of, I guess, political news junky -- the history of what's going on.

The American people are about to elect a president of the United States. And this is a major part of the whole process, the nomination, the acceptance speeches. And I'm just thrilled that I had a chance to observe up close the history of what was happening, because you know, no matter what happens on November 2, people are going to be talking about John Edwards and John Kerry and their speeches and this convention for years to come. And I just am happy to be there.

LIN: And we're going to be following your coverage. Thanks very much, Judy, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks.

WOODRUFF: Thanks, Carol.

I'm just glad that Wolf knows who LL Cool J is.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Our Wolf Blitzer and Judy Woodruff.

Coming up next, the convention as entertainment. Was it spectacle or schlock? We'll ask the critics.

And later, some of the funniest moments, planned and otherwise.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Image is everything. And last night, during the carefully scripted convention, the Democrats seemed to do everything possible to give their candidate the image of strength.

Well, first, there was the video, a nine-minute biography of Senator Kerry narrated by actor Morgan Freeman and made with the help of Oscar-winning director Steven Spielberg. And then veterans of Vietnam, Kerry's crewmates from the swift boat he commanded, gathered on stage to introduce the nominee. Center stage was former Senator Max Cleland of Georgia, who lost both legs and an arm in the war.

And then there was Kerry's entrance. He emerged from the back of the room and shook hands with those standing along the aisle. Some analysts say it evoked the message of a president entering the Capitol to give a State of the Union address.

So how effective was the Democratic show?

Joining me for a critical look at convention, Stephen Battaglio, senior correspondent for "TV Guide," and from Detroit, Elvis Mitchell, film critic for "The New York Times."

Good to see both of you.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Stephen, let me start with you.

Anything about that grand entrance and that speech last night resonate with you?

STEPHEN BATTAGLIO, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, "TV GUIDE": I think the idea was to create a speech not that just a lot of people would watch last night, but something that would make great sound bites and great video clips for the rest of the weekend.

(CROSSTALK)

BATTAGLIO: And they got that. They got the good pictures. They got strength. They got some personality, a little bit of warmth. And Kerry, seen as aloof, was walking through the crowd and touching, being more a man of the people. I think they communicated some of that last night.

Elvis, did it resonate with you?

ELVIS MITCHELL, FILM CRITIC, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Yes, absolutely.

What you could see that Kerry did was, it was almost like he treated the week, the days before, as kind of a master class. He took a little bit from Obama, a little bit even from his wife, the way he was sort of relaxed and seemed very at ease, startlingly so, as a matter of fact.

He lifted a little bit from everybody, even the use of the family stuff that he seemed to pick up from Edwards. It was all sort of engineered so that, finally, he has sort of acquired what he needed to seem, at least act sort of like a real man of the people and a possible candidate, instead of a man who was a little bit too intense.

I even saw a bit of Al Sharpton, the way he was kind of walking through, working the crowd a little bit. He did everything but kind of roll up his sleeves and start shaking hands and kissing babies.

(LAUGHTER)

MITCHELL: He did what you want to see a politician do. He was acting presidential.

LIN: Right. Right.

Well, Stephen, do you think, though, with the obvious symbolism of having his swift boat crew up on stage, having Max Cleland, a legless Vietnam War veteran, do the introduction, do you think, in a way, that it was too obvious?

BATTAGLIO: Look, a lot of people are still learning who this guy is. We know that about half of the country is unhappy with the president and will look closely at an alternative.

MITCHELL: You can't be too obvious when you are trying to make these sort of bold, sweeping moments that people are going to talk about, hopefully.

BATTAGLIO: No, no, you're absolutely right. What we in the media get caught up in is that we think everybody watches as much of this as we do. And they don't. Viewers don't. They're going on with their lives, their jobs, doing other things.

LIN: Right.

MITCHELL: Quite a few people saw it on the morning show this morning. That's really the way everybody caught up with the convention. And that is the sad thing about this convention, that the networks stayed away because they thought there would be no drama. And in sort of actual terms of trying to see what the platform is going to be built into, there wasn't that kind of drama. But there was real theater. There were a bunch of great speeches.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: And theater in the sense that now these candidates feel compelled to make these DVD home videos of themselves telling their life story, John Kerry trying to humanize himself.

MITCHELL: Yes, aren't you guys showing the best stuff in the commercial break, the best of these things are going to last 40 years?

BATTAGLIO: Well, you can be sure that the film last night that people saw will be cut down into commercials and it will probably run throughout the campaign.

LIN: Do you think that the campaigns are effectively using the children, John Edwards' young twins, John Kerry's attractive daughters?

BATTAGLIO: They're all great-looking kids and they're very appealing and they have an incredible amount of poise. So, sure, why not? Why wouldn't you send them out there?

MITCHELL: Of course, you have got to do that, because you know the Bush twins, basically, are -- nobody knows what to do with them. So the idea of actually having your kids coming out and campaigning for you and seeming like credible adults who really have something invested in the politics of this country is a real different kind of statement. And I think that's a crucial thing to have be part of a presidential campaign.

BATTAGLIO: And the Democrats don't want the Republicans to corner the market on family values as well, which is why you're seeing them embrace the family, the spouses, the children.

MITCHELL: Or eligible bachelors, too, for "People" magazine, for that matter.

(LAUGHTER)

BATTAGLIO: Yes.

LIN: Yes, we'll talk about Ben Affleck another time.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: Thanks very much, Elvis Mitchell, Stephen Battaglio.

MITCHELL: Thank you.

BATTAGLIO: Pleasure.

LIN: When we return, some unconventional views of the Democrats' big week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDY BOROWITZ, BOROWITZREPORT.COM: It's not because of her money at all. I just think that she is undeniably hot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

LIN: He's talking about Teresa Heinz Kerry, just one of the many Democrats in the sights of satirist Andy Borowitz.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: The Democratic national convention isn't usually considered a comedy show, but there were more than a few funny moments at this week's event in Boston. Our own Bruce Burkhardt was watching and chuckling.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRUCE BURKHARDT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Well, it's been quite an honor to be in Boston this week covering this convention because, you know, CNN only sends its very top reporters to cover events like this.

I think the thing that I'll remember -- all right, so I wasn't in Boston.

Actually, I've been here in front of a TV clicking a remote watching not just all of the broadcast TV coverage, but also all of CNN's in-house feed cameras, cameras that roll all of the time and show a lot of stuff you don't see on TV.

(voice-over) Like how about Bono bumping in to Al Sharpton?

REV. AL SHARPTON, FMR. DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: Keep the pressure on both of them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got to get him on the stage.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where are we going?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This way. Get them to the back of the stage.

BURKHARDT: This also was not seen on TV. Democratic chairman Terry McAuliffe introducing Bill Richardson. He might be a sharp political operative but...

TERRY MCAULIFFE, DNC CHAIRMAN: (SPEAKING SPANISH) Bill Richardson. BURKHARDT: Being bilingual is clearly not part of the job description. Then there are the not ready for prime time speakers, lesser-known political figures who give rousing speeches in the afternoon. Problem is not many people around to be roused at that time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Values that will let us confront these threats while protecting our civil liberties and the environment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The stakes could not be higher. Thank you very much.

BURKHARDT: Boy, there was a lot of red meat in that speech. Red meat that seemed to be the hot phrase this convention, kind of like Nascar dads or soccer moms.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, Al Sharpton definitely provided the red meat.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And the first red meat tonight.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: I'd say this is about two ounces of red meat and 10 ounces of tofu.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got to give some red meat to the masses.

AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: If that's red meat, that's not even a Big Mac yet.

BURKHARDT: Of course, all of this was red meat for the late night comics.

DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST CBS "LATE NIGHT WITH DAVID LETTERMAN": This is the CNN Democratic national convention highlight of the night.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" HOST: Once the gavel goes down at 4:00 today, this convention is...

BURKHARDT: Meanwhile, Jay Leno nailed down an exclusive interview with John Kerry.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Jay, I am so happy.

JAY LENO, HOST, NBC "TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO": Senator, you don't look happy.

KERRY: Oh, just a minute. How's that?

BURKHARDT: But comedians weren't the only ones making jokes.

AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: After all, I don't want you to think that I lie awake at night counting and recounting sheep.

BURKHARDT: Al Gore, himself, the butt of jokes four years ago because of a lingering kiss.

He kept it shorter this time.

But it all ended with balloons, a real nuisance for our anchors. It was the first time TV news anchored from the floor of the convention. They paid the price.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: A bit of chaos down here on the floor.

BURKHARDT: Our Jeff Greenfield had no choice but to "shove it" out of the way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: That was Bruce Burkhardt. And joining me now, a man who knows a funny moment when he sees one, humorist Andy Borowitz who was at this week's convention in Boston.

Andy, I had no idea it was your first convention. You had never been to one before.

ANDY BOROWITZ, HUMORIST, "THE BOROWITZ REPORT": I had never been to one. I think I went to one model U.N. But that doesn't really count. It was amazing. And I don't think you ever forget your first.

LIN: What stood out for you, any surprises?

BOROWITZ: Well, I don't know so much surprises, but I just thought that everything Teresa touched turned to gold.

LIN: You have a big crush on her, don't you? Teresa Heinz Kerry we're talking about here.

BOROWITZ: Yes, I've made it no secret. You're looking at husband number three right here.

LIN: Not that you project any ill will onto John Kerry.

BOROWITZ: No, I hope -- I'm sure they have a very happy marriage. But it's just -- I think it's just good for her to for Teresa know there are other options waiting in the wings.

And it's not because of her money at all. I just think that she is undeniably hot. I really do.

LIN: Why?

BOROWITZ: You know, it's that element of unpredictability. She -- how can I describe it? She's almost like a magic 8-ball. You know, you just shake her up and who knows what she's going to say. And I think that's going to make it a great campaign.

LIN: Like telling a reporter to allegedly...

BOROWITZ: Shove it -- yes. I like that. I'm sure since it's Teresa, she meant well.

You know actually I heard that in Mozambique, shove it actually means the same thing as shalom. It's like hello, good-bye.

LIN: A form of greeting.

BOROWITZ: It is.

LIN: Well, we'll have to check our sources on that one.

Were there other surprises for you, though? I mean, I hear that it's a big party scene.

BOROWITZ: It was.

LIN: Everybody complaining that the convention was terribly scripted, except for a few beautiful moments.

BOROWITZ: Yes. I mean I was a little bit disappointed with John Edwards, I've got to say. I just heard this today that he's actually retracted his statement that there are two Americas. He said he got that information from Mapquest.

LIN: Oh, really?

BOROWITZ: Yes. So I think that was, I thought, sort of a downer.

But I thought, you know, I thought Obama was fantastic. I thought that there was a lot of great speeches being made. There was that problem with the balloons, though, that did trouble me.

LIN: Yes.

BOROWITZ: I was listening...

LIN: Was it the fact that the balloons didn't come down on time or the fact that the director was swearing on the air waves?

BOROWITZ: I was listening to that thing in the booth, you know, in the balloon booth. And I was thinking why would the Democrats entrust Cheney with cuing the balloons? It just didn't seem like a good move.

(Crosstalk)

BOROWITZ: I think that was the guy.

LIN: That's embarrassing.

BOROWITZ: It was a little bit embarrassing. But, you know, I think that Kerry stepped up. I loved that, you know, that little salute, you know -- reporting for duty.

LIN: Yes. BOROWITZ: It's going to really sort of raise the bar, I think, for President Bush with his speech, because he's going to probably have to allude to his military service. And I think I heard this day that he's going to start his speech by saying, I'm George Bush and I can explain where I've been the last couple of weeks.

So I think that's good. I think will be a good, sort of a rousing start.

LIN: Are you going to go to the Republican convention?

BOROWITZ: I would not miss it. I would not miss it.

LIN: How do you think the two are going to compare?

BOROWITZ: I've got to say Laura does not do it for me the same way Teresa does. I think Laura is very -- she is very contained. She's very well-behaved, so I think that will not --

Let me say, the Republicans seem like they would drop the balloons properly. That seems like the kind of thing they would get right. They're very good at dropping things on people. But I don't know.

LIN: No pun intended?

BOROWITZ: No, no, no. But I think we're going to be there. It's right, happening right here in New York. We're not going to miss that.

LIN: Do you think the party scene is going to differ on the Republican convention? I heard the Democrats...

BOROWITZ: Yes.

LIN: ... know how to party hard.

Wolf Blitzer was talking about L.L. Cool J earlier.

BOROWITZ: He was...

LIN: He was...

BOROWITZ: He was partying with L.L. Cool J?

LIN: He was partying with L.L. Cool J?

BOROWITZ: You know, I was -- I did a number of the parties, and I think basically the rule of thumb for how to determine whether it was a hot party or not was that if you scanned the room and I was there, that means it was not a hot party.

I did not attend any parties with any bold-faced names at all. I just did not.

I think like one of the kids from "Welcome Back Cotter" was at one of mine. But other than that, I did not recognize anybody.

LIN: Well, you know Ben Affleck was everywhere and with everyone.

BOROWITZ: Ben was there. He was, and partying with the Kerry sisters. You know, and I don't know what that's all about.

They're actually not even the political daughters I'm into. I'm really into the little known Nader twins. Have you heard about them? They're exciting.

LIN: Well, we might at the general election.

BOROWITZ: We might.

LIN: Let's hope not, actually. Thanks very much, Andy Borowitz.

BOROWITZ: Thanks, Carol.

LIN: And when we come back, mightier than the sword and twice as sharp, the pen of the political cartoonists.

And then later, furry, four-legged spin from the Kerry campaign.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: There isn't a political issue they can't spoof, a politician they can't ridicule or an event they can't poke fun at. They're America's political cartoonists, and this week's convention gave them a lot of material to work with.

Our own Tom Foreman had a chance to watch them in action.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pen and ink, light and line. The nation's political cartoonists are busy with the serious work of being funny. And Mike Luckovich with the "Atlanta Journal-Constitution" is on the prowl.

MIKE LUCKOVICH, "ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION: I'm just trying to talk to as many people as I can.

FOREMAN: Looking for information, illumination.

LUCKOVICH: Hi, I'm Mike Luckovich.

MICHAEL MOORE, "FAHRENHEIT 9/11": I know who you are. I saw you earlier.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How you doing, man?

FOREMAN: Inspiration.

LUCKOVICH: I kind of like to do cartoons on people I don't like so much. FOREMAN (on camera): Is that because they're funny or because there's more food for thought?

LUCKOVICH: Yes, you know, you can kind -- you can kind of puncture them a little bit.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Almost all the big cartoonists are here, members of a slightly deranged fraternity. Most favor one point of view about public foolishness.

Luckovich leans liberal, on the left and to the left is Tom Tomorrow.

TOM TOMORROW, "THIS MODERN WORLD": What the cartoonist is, the political cartoonist, is doing in the best case scenario is just putting the finger on what that foolishness is so the people go, oh yes, of course, that's him.

FOREMAN: Mike Ramirez is a conservative drawing for "The Los Angeles Times." Yet he, like all of the others, often scours his own side.

MIKE RAMIREZ, "THE LOS ANGELES TIMES": We're not drawing it as a Republican, you know, a member of the Republican party or the Democrat party. We're drawing it as a member of the anti-stupid party.

FOREMAN (on camera): Do you see yourself first as a journalist?

RAMIREZ: Absolutely.

FOREMAN: Is that common for political cartoonists?

RAMIREZ: I think -- I think it is for the most part and it absolutely should be, because that's what we do.

ROBERT BEDARD, CARTOON EXHIBIT CURATOR: Is this a recent cartoon that was done.

FOREMAN (voice-over): A few blocks away Suffolk University is honoring this American tradition way back to when the first states were uniting and Ben Franklin was drawing.

BEDARD: And he did a depiction of a snake cut into nine pieces and the message below it was, "join or die," meaning join the union or die individually.

FOREMAN: In the 1890s, the yellow kid poked fun and the exploitive news stories that ran alongside were soon called yellow journalism.

It's much more respectable work now. Back at the convention, Luckovich has another target, former presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich.

FOREMAN (on camera): When someone like Mike draws you, is that a compliment? LUCKOVICH: Just say yes.

DENNIS KUCINICH (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: To be drawn by Luckovich is to be blessed, but to be cornered by him is not a compliment.

LUCKOVICH: Thank you.

FOREMAN: That must make you feel very good!

LUCKOVICH: Well, see when you meet a guy like that, he's so damn nice!

FOREMAN (voice-over): Nice or not, within an hour, Kucinich is a full head shorter and a good bit funnier. And funny is key.

LUCKOVICH: If I do a cartoon that hits a person over the head just getting my point across, it's more easily dismissed, I think.

FOREMAN: Ramirez is watching John Kerry and thinking the same thing.

RAMIREZ: If you make it interesting enough, if you make it funny enough, then you're going to draw readers that you don't normally get; and they're going to look at the cartoon, and by the time they get the point, it's too late. You got them.

FOREMAN: And this is the task for political cartoonists -- every day to descend into a murky world where positions are constantly shifting and turn the shades of gray into their vision of black and white.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And that was Tom Foreman.

Joining me now, two of those political cartoonists. In Boston, Mike Ramirez of the "Los Angeles Times" and in Atlanta, Mike Luckovich of the "Atlanta Journal-Constitution."

Both cartoonists, by the way, have won Pulitzer prizes. And I understand both of you are pretty competitive with each other.

RAMIREZ: Hey, Carol. Mike who from Atlanta?

LIN: Yes, I'm sure you don't watch each other's work.

Hey listen, Mike Luckovich.

LUCKOVICH: Yes.

LIN: You have said that President Bush is one of the funnest people to draw, but also one of the most difficult. We want to share some of your work but explain why.

LUCKOVICH: OK. You know, he actually is a difficult person to draw. His nose is inhumanly small and he's got very small eyes. But whoever is president becomes my favorite character to draw. It's like Jim Davis draws Garfield and that's his character.

Well, for four years or eight years, my favorite character is whoever is president. And so I love drawing Bush.

LIN: Yes, I love the ears. And it seems like he's shrinking in your cartoons. He's getting smaller.

LUCKOVICH: You know, after 9/11, he became very big. And then as I've gotten more and more angry with him over Iraq and over the environment and the economy, he gets tinier and tinier, but the ears keep getting bigger.

LIN: Mike Ramirez, you're laughing at what Mike Luckovich is saying.

RAMIREZ: What Mike is saying is absolutely true and Mike is actually one of the finest political cartoonists in the country. And he does so well with humor because humor really transcends politics.

LIN: Yes.

RAMIREZ: People ought to be engaged. And our job is illuminate them on the issue, but we want to reach as many people as possible. And humor is a great tool to do that.

LIN: And John Kerry was clearly in both of your sites during the Democratic convention. I want to share some of the pictures with him.

How does he compare as a character with President Bush?

LUCKOVICH: Kerry is like the perfect cartoon character. I always compare him to those trees in "Lord of the Rings" those Ent trees, the Ents. You know, long, really long kind of gnarly looking and kind of slow-moving.

So he's really a great -- he would be a great person to have in office just from a cartoonist standpoint, I think. Right, Mike?

RAMIREZ: You know, obviously, he hasn't had a whole lot to do since he retired from the "Munster" show.

LIN: I don't know if you could make his jaw any longer, Mike Ramirez.

RAMIREZ: Well, you know, he's got that sour look on his face and it's probably because he's contemplating his Senate record, but...

LIN: Oh.

LUCKOVICH: Oh, man!

LIN: Opposing points of view.

RAMIREZ: He's got really great features and dynamic features for caricaturing.

LUCKOVICH: He does.

LIN: Mike Ramirez, how do you deal, though, with the tougher subjects like the hunt for Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein or the prison scandal at Abu Ghraib?

RAMIREZ: Well, you know, I think on certain subjects, you have to really be sensitive. I mean, we don't want to be controversial cartoons for the sake of controversy, like we don't want to do humorous cartoons just for the sake of humor.

LIN: Look at this one. This is the one that, Mike Ramirez, you did of Saddam Hussein. And that is not only a beard you drew, but are those individual bodies that make up his beard?

RAMIREZ: Right. It's piled up bodies and skulls and human remains. It's really -- it's a dramatic drawing for a notorious, notorious man.

LIN: And Mike Luckovich, Osama bin Laden, your depiction of him. We'll share that as well.

LUCKOVICH: Yes, I've got a drawing I just did of him. You know, even when you have a guy that's very evil, you want to mock him, because -- I mean, if I was drawing Hitler now, you know, I would just make him as goofy as I could.

I've got him here and instead of, "kiss me, I'm Irish, it's "kill me, I'm evil." He's a bad dude, so you've got to knock him.

LIN: Do you guys -- Mike Luckovich, do you ever look at Mike Ramirez's work and say, I wish I thought of that?

And Mike Ramirez, do you do the same? Do you guys track each other on the issues?

LUCKOVICH: You know, Mike is probably the best just natural artist of all of us. He does -- I look at his stuff and it just takes my breath away. He puts so much detail into each of his drawings. And so, there are times I look at that guy's stuff and think, dang, I wish I could draw like that.

RAMIREZ: I don't want to seem like we're just throwing out praises to each other, I hate Luckovich's stuff.

LUCKOVICH: Well.

RAMIREZ: Frankly -- no. Mike actually...

LIN: You've won a Pulitzer prize, but you're going for it. I mean, what -- the other cartoonists at the "The Los Angeles Times" have won multiple prizes and you want to be the first one to win four. That's competitive.

RAMIREZ: Well, you know, I would like to be the best there is. And Luckovich just has a mastery of humor. And it is so good at engaging the people.

LIN: All right.

RAMIREZ: But I think editorial cartoons ought to be substantive. They ought to be poignant. And Mike does that so well, companioned with humor.

LIN: President Clinton, rich material there. Both of you really enjoy drawing him, but do you enjoy drawing him because he's fun to draw or because there was so much -- there was so much material in his presidency?

LUCKOVICH: You know, he's got a very expressive face. He was always out in front of people talking. The thing about Bush is Bush is awfully programmed. They only cart him out and then they pull the curtain closed, so you only get brief glimpses of Bush.

Clinton was always out there and I just -- I just love his -- I just love his -- the way his personality. And this is my take on Clinton.

You know, he's a good-looking guy, but he's got some great features. He's got the bulbous nose, and the bags under the eyes, and the chipmunk cheeks and the chin.

LIN: Very cute.

LUCKOVICH: He's fun to draw.

LIN: Hey Mike Ramirez, Mike Luckovich came armed and ready to go. He's got several drawings on his desk. We'll look forward to seeing your work, too.

Mike Ramirez, Mike Luckovich, thank you both.

LUCKOVICH: Thanks so much.

LIN: And when we return, a Kerry daughter's pitch to a new breed of Democrat.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

If you haven't heard yet about John Kerry and his Vietnam war heroics, you just haven't been paying much attention. But it wasn't until last night at the Democratic convention that we heard about his hamster heroics.

Here is our Jeanne Moos on the politics of that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Democrats may have won over a very special interest group, "Hamsters For Kerry."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you believe John Kerry gave mouth-to- mouth to a hamster? MOOS: Well, maybe not mouth-to-mouth.

(on camera) Pretend is this a hamster.

DR. ELLEN HIRSHBERG, VETERINARIAN, ASPCA: It would be very gentle compressions. It's not like...

MOOS: CPR for hamsters became a campaign issue when John Kerry's daughter told one of her favorite stories about her dad.

ALEXANDRA KERRY, DAUGHTER OF SEN. JOHN KERRY: It's a silly story.

MOOS: Alexander Kerry and her sister were kids when their dog knocked a cage containing their pet hamster, Licorice, off a dock. John Kerry jumped into the water and rescued the hamster.

ALEXANDRA KERRY: Hunched over the soggy hamster and began to administer CPR.

MOOS: "The New York Times" called it the best John Kerry story at the convention. At the ASPCA, a veterinarian told us you could do CPR on a hamster and demonstrated on our fuzzy mic.

HIRSHBERG: But I would blow and compress, blow and compress.

MOOS: And we expect Senator Kerry blew off the blowing part.

ALEXANDRA KERRY: There are some reports of mouth-to-mouth, but I admit, it's probably a trick of memory.

MOOS: Which brings back memories of Eddie Murphy.

EDDIE MURPHY, ACTOR, "DR. DoCoMo 2": Do you know how to do CPR?

RAT, "DR. DOOLITTLE 2": CPR? I can't even spell it.

MOOS: Resuscitating a rat.

RAT: No tongue, doc! Eek!

ALEXANDRA KERRY: The hamster was never was quite right after that, but he lived.

MOOS: As for the hamster spin on the story, a Web site called "Hamsterific" listed Kerry as recommended.

This "Hamster for President" site was still pushing one of its own rather than Kerry for rodent in chief.

(on camera): Would President Bush jump in the water to save a hamster?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He'd probably send somebody.

MOOS: Do you think George Bush would give CPR to a hamster? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he'd probably fire on a hamster sooner.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wouldn't you turn the hamster upside down first and drain the water out?

HIRSHBERG: Like so.

MOOS: We are going to be so ready. If any of us sees a drowning hamster, we're going to be set.

(voice-over) And what might the little rodent say to those who accuse Democrats of pandering to the hamster vote? Kerry, better than cheese!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: That was Jeanne Moos.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Thank you so much for being with us tonight.

On Monday, why more states are trying to make gay marriages legal.

"LARRY KING LIVE" is up next. Good night.

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