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American Morning
Intelligence That Led Bush Administration to Raise Terror Alert in Three U.S. Cities; 9/11 Commission Member Lehman Discusses Group's Recommendations
Aired August 04, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: The terror warnings that have put three cities on alert. Is there another source of intelligence that forced the government to act?
In Utah, new pictures and new details in the case against Mark Hacking, including word of a confession.
And the teacher who went to jail for raping a 12-year-old student. Mary Kay Letourneau out of prison on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
COLLINS: Good morning, everybody.
Soledad is off resting, preparing for the babies.
The terror warnings, though, topping the news once again this morning. Barbara Starr is standing by to tell us more about information that prompted these warnings and some potentially important arrests now in Britain that are connected to terrorism. Witnesses say police put plastic bags around suspects' arms and legs before taking them away. We'll find out what that was all about.
HEMMER: Also this hour, is it fair to put a contract above personal safety? We'll look at the teachers who left a school in Kuwait for security reasons there and are now being sued for it. Stay tuned for that.
COLLINS: Also, Sanjay Gupta with us today. He's talking about the health impact of something almost all of us do, and that is, yes, eating while you work. The only way I know how to work.
Right, Jack?
HEMMER: It's impossible.
COLLINS: Good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's nothing wrong with that. They bring that stuff in here in the morning and...
COLLINS: Right.
HEMMER: Yes. CAFFERTY: That's that.
It's Wednesday. A couple of things. We will update the score card on the 9/11 Commission and the Congress. So far it's still a shut out there. And because it's Wednesday, "Things People Say." Ben Affleck talking about running for political office. Just think, J-Lo could have been the first lady. And another actor admits to doing something once at summer camp that he doesn't like to talk about. Didn't we all?
COLLINS: Oh, interesting.
All right, we'll wait for that.
Thanks, Jack.
We are learning more today about the intelligence the government used to raise the terror threat level for financial institutions. Law enforcement sources tell CNN there are 20 potential targets, not just the five reported earlier. The targets are broken down into three categories, the order of priority depending on how much and how detailed the information is.
Officials here and in Pakistan say the suspected al Qaeda computer expert, Mohammad Naeem Noor Khan, captured last month, is the key link in this chain of intelligence. Some of his information is four years old, but officials say they have additional sources which brought the sense of urgency to raise the threat level.
Barbara Starr following this story now from the Pentagon this morning -- Barbara, good morning once again.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning again to you, Heidi.
Indeed, officials now saying that there were additional streams of intelligence, corroborating information, that they did not raise the threat level to orange simply based on the information in that computer. That computer containing about 500 images, including surveillance, of course, of those financial targets in New York, Washington and Newark, New Jersey now under additional security.
But officials say that within recent days, intelligence officials say within recent days there was, indeed, additional corroborating intelligence. Some of that more recent intelligence, indeed, focusing on some of those financial targets, at least. But some of that information also relating to the possibility of al Qaeda planning for a terrorist attack inside the United States. All of it, they say, adding up to very significant concern on the part of the administration that al Qaeda might have something in the works.
So the bottom line, they say, is, yes, that computer that was seized did have some old information on it dating back to before the 9/11 attacks, but when they added it up with the additional new information that they got in, which, by the way, they're not saying exactly where that came from, but when they added it all up, they had no choice but to go to the orange threat level -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Something else interesting, talking about adding things up, hearing that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi may have actually tried to contact Osama bin Laden.
Now, tell us a little bit more about that, if you can.
STARR: Indeed, Heidi, defense officials here say that there -- in recent days, again -- have been credible intelligence reports that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian terrorist believed to be operating inside Iraq, behind many of the insurgency attacks, made an effort through his network to contact Osama bin Laden to talk about the insurgency in Iraq. Not clear whether that attempt at contact was successful at all, because, of course, no one really knows where Osama bin Laden is.
But officials say there are reports out there that that attempt was made -- Heidi.
COLLINS: We'll wait to hear more about that, of course.
And Barbara Starr, thanks so much, from the Pentagon this morning -- Bill.
HEMMER: Heidi, the 9/11 Commission recommendations get another hearing today on Capitol Hill. Commission member John Lehman will testify before the House Intelligence Committee. The former Navy secretary told a congressional panel yesterday that, "Oversight reform should be priority number one."
John Lehman my guest here now in New York.
Mr. Secretary, good morning to you.
JOHN LEHMAN, FORMER SECRETARY OF NAVY: Good morning.
HEMMER: How much of this are you going to get through?
LEHMAN: I think we're going to get it all through. I'm very optimistic. Because, first of all, I think people are beginning to see this is not a Chinese menu that you can pick and choose. It's a fundamental systematic change, a complete change of the way this nation does its intelligence. So it's pretty hard to say well. We'll do that when that's easy, this one's a little tougher, we'll put that aside.
So I think the pressure is on. I think people, particularly after having read our report, see this, the whole world in a different way, and see our government in a different way, that this is deeply broken, the way we do our intelligence and how we keep our leaders informed.
HEMMER: Part of what you said yesterday, the oversight mechanisms created in the cold war era are no longer appropriate. You continued, "It's time for an entirely new system."
Define that.
LEHMAN: Well, we are depending today on institutions and procedures that were developed really in the decades immediately after World War 2 to deal with the Soviet Union, with the KGB, with China, with nation states. And then as terrorism emerged in the '80s, we, again, applied the same approach, the same mentality to what we called state-sponsored terrorism. We viewed this as just another tool of nation states.
Now we have something that is entirely different. It's a transnational ideological movement against all of our institutions. And the United States is the chief target, but all of the West, all of the democracies in the world are really the target.
HEMMER: Let me stop you there and let's talk about what will be created. If you get a new intelligence chief in the U.S. that oversees more than a dozen agencies, how much power should that individual have? And should that be a cabinet level position?
LEHMAN: Well, it's interesting, it definitely should be a cabinet level, but not necessarily in the cabinet. In fact, I personally don't think it should be in the cabinet and we did not recommend it be in the cabinet.
HEMMER: That did not come out of the commission.
LEHMAN: The commission did not recommend it.
HEMMER: Does this individual have budget power?
LEHMAN: This individual has to have budget power, but not just budget power; also has to have appropriations and reprogramming power, which is essential to do that -- has to have hire and fire power over the key officials throughout the intelligence agency, has to have the power to impose I.T., that is, communications, computers, protocols so that the 15 different agencies can communicate with each other.
HEMMER: And despite the push back you were getting yesterday a little bit from the FBI side, you think this is going to get done?
LEHMAN: Well, the FBI, as a bureaucracy, as opposed to the leadership, which, I think, is very much aware of the problems, the FBI, for the first time, will be brought into the fusion of the intelligence center. So they are going to resist this. And CIA will resist it. Again, not the leadership necessarily, but the bureaucracy.
HEMMER: You know, Mr. Secretary, one thing that came out of this commission is that everyone said overwhelming this was bipartisan, Republicans and Democrats, men and women working together. You did a story at the "National Review" online, Rich Lawry, and you said, in part, when Richard Clarke came in, you said, "We were mugged by Viacom. They edited his book to make it into an anti-Bush jihad."
Was that statement, in fact, what you said? LEHMAN: No, that's not the commission, that's me speaking. That's -- I was kind of shocked that -- at that hearing because Richard Clarke had been such a credible witness who spent three full days with us and really helped us to understand the problem more than any other single witness. He was totally objective, let the chips fall where they may.
But then we saw this tremendous orchestration to make his best seller and it only told one side of the story, essentially.
And so I was -- we were all surprised at the hearing, because all of us expected to have a reprise of what he gave us in private.
Now, he didn't tell us -- make any -- he didn't say anything false or anything. He just told half the story. So -- and it was all part of their orchestration to get the book through. So that's why I was kind of disappointed.
HEMMER: I wanted to clear that up.
Thank you.
John Lehman here in New York.
LEHMAN: A pleasure.
HEMMER: Heidi.
COLLINS: New information this morning on the terror arrests in Britain now. There's word from Pakistani intelligence officials that information from a terror suspect there may have led to the capture of at least one of the suspects in Britain.
Jim Boulden is live in London now with more on this.
Jim -- hello.
JIM BOULDEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Heidi.
Good morning.
Yes, I'm standing outside of the Paddington Green Police Station, where 12 of the 13 men arrested yesterday are currently being interrogated. But let's bring you back up to date on what we have heard from CNN in Pakistan. They have confirmed with intelligence sources in Pakistan that Naeem Noor Khan, the man who is talked about as a computer expert for al Qaeda, traveled extensively to the U.K. and that his family has connections with the U.K. through one of the -- one airline. And that Noor Khan's interrogating of him has led to at least one of the arrests of one of the 12 men currently being held. And this man is being called a key al Qaeda suspect. So that is brand new information.
The British police will not confirm. They don't deny it, but they will not confirm, which is very typical here in the U.K. They usually do not talk at all about suspects that have been arrested. These men can be held here, Heidi, for 14 days.
Now, I also want to tell you that this morning that raids were continuing throughout the U.K. They were executing search warrants in a number of locations. No new arrests today. But police have been searching a number of houses here in London, around London and in the north. And, also, we have heard from one witness yesterday who talked about the rather dramatic daylight raid that took place.
Here is Lincoln Leslie.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINCOLN LESLIE, WITNESS: And I was up the ladder and I noticed the flashing lights. And I realized they blocked the traffic down there and they prevented the traffic coming down here and turning. Police were standing there with these weapons. I don't know what -- a rifle, whatever it was. Then I realized there was a brown car and the front door was open and an officer was holding this guy over the car. And he must have held him there for well over an hour.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOULDEN: Now, while the police continue to interrogate the suspects here at Paddington Green, the police did release a statement that said that the arrests led from an ongoing intelligence operation and that it's looking into "international terrorism."
That leads us to believe that there were police sources, probably from the U.S., certainly from Pakistan and others, who were watching these men, looking into what these men were doing and that it was an international decision to arrest the men. The British police are very adept at watching people for a very long time. It's very unusual for them to make daylight raids.
So, Heidi, something tipped them off, something made them think we'd better arrest these guys now because they might figure out that we've been looking into them. And those daylight raids happened. And, as I say, now they're still at Paddington Green Station. It could be up to 14 days until we actually get more definitive information -- Heidi, that's it.
Back to you.
COLLINS: All right, Jim Boulden, thanks so much for that.
We'll talk more about this with our guest from the "Washington Post" coming up in the 8:30 half hour.
Jim, thanks again.
HEMMER: Back in this country now, Mary Kay Letourneau, the teacher who served seven years in prison for having a sexual relationship with a sixth grader, is now free.
Kimberly Osias live in Gig Harbor, Washington this morning for us -- good morning there. KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good morning, Bill.
Well, Mary Kay Letourneau surprised waiting media by slipping out untaped and unnoticed. She slipped out of the Washington State Correctional Facility for Women at about 1:00 a.m. to protesters carrying signs saying, "I'm 18" and "Take Me." This, after spending seven years behind bars for having sex with sixth grader Vili Fualaau. She crossed over what many would consider taboo ethical, moral and legal lines as his teacher.
Pregnant by Fualaau, Mary Kay Letourneau pled guilty to two counts of child rape back in 1997. After five months in jail, a judge gave her a second chance. But right after her release, she defied a court order and was caught having sex in a car with Fualaau. They had about $6,000 in cash and clothes in the car.
She landed back in jail, where she gave birth to the pair's second child. Now, she is starting again, only this time she has to register as a level two sex offender and for the next three years she will be under close scrutiny and watch and any kind of relationship she will have at all in a romantic way, she will have to report that to authorities.
As far as working or teaching with children ever again, it's strictly off limits -- Bill.
HEMMER: Kimberly Osias, thanks, in Washington State this morning.
Thirteen minutes past the hour.
A check of the other news now.
For that, here's Daryn Kagan yet again at the CNN Center -- good morning, Daryn.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Bill, good morning.
There is word of fierce fighting in the Iraqi city of Mosul. Hospital officials say at least 12 people were killed and dozens more wounded. Meanwhile, four Jordanian hostages have been set free. One of the hostage's brothers says the workers arrived in Jordan earlier today. There are also reports that two Turkish hostages have been freed. That's according to the Arabic language network Al Jazeera.
Here in the States, a new development could affect the Kobe Bryant case. "Sports Illustrated" reports that a Florida waitress claims Kobe Bryant groped her. It reportedly happened at the home of his former Los Angeles Lakers teammate, Shaquille O'Neal. Now, Shaq could possibly be called as a witness in Bryant's upcoming sexual assault trial.
An investigation is under way near Austin, Texas after a small plane crashed into a mansion and exploded. Six people on the Piper Aerostar were killed. Three people in the house at the time of the crash survived. Witnesses heard the plane's engine sputter before it crashed.
And in Cleveland, "American Idol" fever is taking over. About 15,000 people spent the night sleeping outside Cleveland Browns Stadium. They're hoping to become the nation's next pop superstar. Auditions for "American Idol's" fourth season began in Cleveland just minutes ago.
All is not lost, Bill, though. Seven more stops on the audition tour. But you might be a little too old to try out.
HEMMER: You think so?
KAGAN: Despite how you look.
HEMMER: Yes, 15,000, I think that's more than they get for the Indians games these days, right?
KAGAN: Yes. More promise of success on "Idol," yes.
HEMMER: All right, thank you, Daryn.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COLLINS: Still to come, the latest in the case of Private First Class Lynndie England. Why an international embarrassment for the United States is turning out to be a personal embarrassment for the soldier at the center of the scandal.
HEMMER: Also in a moment here, the story of four American teachers who left Kuwait fearing for their lives, they say. Now they're being sued because of it. We'll get to that.
COLLINS: And Mark Hacking caught on tape moments after authorities say he killed his wife. The latest on what appears to be a stunning confession ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Authorities in Salt Lake City say evidence in the case of Lori Hacking, who disappeared more than two weeks ago, now includes her husband's murder confession.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID YOCOM, SALT LAKE CITY COUNTY PROSECUTOR: Mark Hacking told this reliable citizen witness that he killed Lori while she was asleep in bed and disposed of her body in a dumpster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Mark Hacking is expected to be formally charged next week in the killing of his wife.
KSL Radio host Doug Wright joins us from Salt Lake City now to talk more about the case.
Mr. Wright, thanks again for being with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
DAVID WRIGHT, KSL RADIO HOST: Thank you.
COLLINS: What a strange turn of events with this confession and the very specific evidence, too, of the knife, the blood and the mattress. It's all contained in those court documents.
What can you tell us about this?
WRIGHT: Well, these are all things that we'd heard about and had been speculated about. We have had unconfirmed reports of this and off the record reports. And now so many of those things fell into place in this amended probable cause yesterday.
I mean that bloody knife, the blood on the bedstead, the blood on the rails of the bed. And then finding the mattress that has become infamous in the dumpster. And then also finding the blood flakes and the blood swipes in Lori's car that matched the blood samples that they found in the apartment. And then, probably the most startling of all was to find out that we have this -- and it's interesting how the police worded this -- the reliable citizen witness who said that Mark actually confessed that he killed his wife in her sleep and then dumped her body in the dumpster.
It was just shocking yesterday to actually see that in print, all of the things that had been speculated about.
COLLINS: Yes, Doug, those words, the reliable, credible -- pardon me -- reliable citizen witness, any indication from what you're hearing about whether or not that person was a patient?
WRIGHT: There are only -- you know, who knows in this case what is likely, what is probable versus possible? But we're thinking that it's either a family member, it's either a staff member up there at the hospital or it's a patient.
I think the police -- and this is pure speculation -- they're saying reliable citizen witness, that leads us to believe perhaps not a patient. Most likely, we're thinking, family member, but, again, that's speculation.
COLLINS: Well, clearly that is the question there.
Also, we want to get to the surveillance tape now. We saw that come out last night, pretty eerie stuff. We're looking at it now.
When Mark Hacking comes back in alone by himself, 1:18 a.m., the day that Lori disappeared, do you notice anything odd in that tape? What do you see when you look at it?
WRIGHT: When I look at it, if you did not know the story, if you did not know the person, didn't know basically the time frame that we think this is in, you might just blow it off. But the fact that he touches his nose, the fact that he looks down at his hands and then he appears to kind of pick and brush at his hands, and then he looks over at his watchband on his left arm and seems to extract something, pick something away from the watchband, it's absolutely creepy. You know, your imagination runs wild.
But putting it in context and thinking that just moments before, minutes before, an hour before he killed Lori, it's chilling.
COLLINS: Well, we know the search for Lori's body will resume again tonight with the cadaver dogs at the landfill.
WRIGHT: Right.
COLLINS: If police do find her body and do determine that she was, indeed, pregnant, how is that going to affect the charges in this case?
WRIGHT: I specifically asked the police that yesterday on my radio program and they are saying that there is the possibility he could be charged with a double homicide. So obviously there are lots of reasons they want to find Lori's body. I thought Chief Dinse was very sensitive when he said we don't want this to be the last resting place of Lori Hacking.
So just to retrieve the body, certainly, but then to also get the additional evidence and to find out once and for all whether or not she was pregnant. And that could mean a double murder charge for Mark.
COLLINS: All right, Doug Wright, KSL Radio host, thanks so much, as always, from Salt Lake City this morning.
WRIGHT: Thank you.
COLLINS: Bill. HEMMER: About 23 minutes past the hour.
Now back with Jack in a moment here.
Also in a moment, for a lot of workers, there is no such thing as a lunch hour. But are you risking your own health by eating at your desk? A new study is out. Sanjay has it. We'll talk to him a little bit later on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back, everyone.
Here's Jack again, The Question of the Day.
CAFFERTY: Please do not send any more answers about the Quad Cities, OK? I have 600 answers to that Quad City...
COLLINS: We got it.
HEMMER: You knew we were walking into that an hour ago.
CAFFERTY: And the fourth one was Bettendorf and we thank you all, but knock it off. All right, here's the deal. If the government raises the threat level and nothing happens, they're criticized for crying wolf. If they don't say anything and something does happen, then they're in trouble for that.
So the question is this, do you want to be informed about the threats or do you trust the government to keep you safe?
Celia in Lawrence, Kansas writes: "Tell me, but tell me, too, on the front end if the information is three years old."
Grace in Austin, Texas: "It's essential I have information so I can make educated decisions. It's the government's job to keep us informed and protect us as much as possible. But one has to use that information in order to keep one's self out of harm's way."
Nick in Bonaire, Georgia: "If the threats are deemed very credible, then, no, we should not be informed. So long as the responsible agencies take care of the threat. On the other hand, I don't trust the government to protect us, never h."
Ken in Atlanta: "I want to be told honestly when there's a credible threat. I do not want to hear about a threat that the administration has known about for weeks or months only to be released when the president needs a political boost. Tom Ridge's praise of the president's leadership this time around makes it crystal clear that this is political. What a shame."
And Grayce in Trevose, Pennsylvania: "Trust the government? Yes, and last night I got a dollar from the tooth fairy, money really does grow on trees and what your mother told you about going blind is true."
COLLINS: Oh, my.
CAFFERTY: Some of the guys in the crew know what that last one was about, don't they?
HEMMER: Yes.
Jack, a question for you. Tell me, where's Bettendorf, Iowa?
CAFFERTY: I don't want to do this anymore.
HEMMER: Or was that in Illinois?
CAFFERTY: That was at 7:00 this morning.
COLLINS: We're having a matinee.
CAFFERTY: I did make a mistake, though. It's Rock Island, not Rockford.
HEMMER: Rock Island.
COLLINS: Yes. CAFFERTY: Please don't -- don't bring this up anymore.
HEMMER: All right.
CAFFERTY: I'm begging you.
COLLINS: We can't stop.
CAFFERTY: Just stop.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.
In a moment here, a rather embarrassing situation for Private First Class Lynndie England getting even worse. A look at her first day in court in a moment.
Also ahead, the threat of a terrorist attack looms over the nation's capital. But some people there might be more concerned about snarled traffic.
Back in a moment, the bottom of the hour in two minutes here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired August 4, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: The terror warnings that have put three cities on alert. Is there another source of intelligence that forced the government to act?
In Utah, new pictures and new details in the case against Mark Hacking, including word of a confession.
And the teacher who went to jail for raping a 12-year-old student. Mary Kay Letourneau out of prison on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
COLLINS: Good morning, everybody.
Soledad is off resting, preparing for the babies.
The terror warnings, though, topping the news once again this morning. Barbara Starr is standing by to tell us more about information that prompted these warnings and some potentially important arrests now in Britain that are connected to terrorism. Witnesses say police put plastic bags around suspects' arms and legs before taking them away. We'll find out what that was all about.
HEMMER: Also this hour, is it fair to put a contract above personal safety? We'll look at the teachers who left a school in Kuwait for security reasons there and are now being sued for it. Stay tuned for that.
COLLINS: Also, Sanjay Gupta with us today. He's talking about the health impact of something almost all of us do, and that is, yes, eating while you work. The only way I know how to work.
Right, Jack?
HEMMER: It's impossible.
COLLINS: Good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's nothing wrong with that. They bring that stuff in here in the morning and...
COLLINS: Right.
HEMMER: Yes. CAFFERTY: That's that.
It's Wednesday. A couple of things. We will update the score card on the 9/11 Commission and the Congress. So far it's still a shut out there. And because it's Wednesday, "Things People Say." Ben Affleck talking about running for political office. Just think, J-Lo could have been the first lady. And another actor admits to doing something once at summer camp that he doesn't like to talk about. Didn't we all?
COLLINS: Oh, interesting.
All right, we'll wait for that.
Thanks, Jack.
We are learning more today about the intelligence the government used to raise the terror threat level for financial institutions. Law enforcement sources tell CNN there are 20 potential targets, not just the five reported earlier. The targets are broken down into three categories, the order of priority depending on how much and how detailed the information is.
Officials here and in Pakistan say the suspected al Qaeda computer expert, Mohammad Naeem Noor Khan, captured last month, is the key link in this chain of intelligence. Some of his information is four years old, but officials say they have additional sources which brought the sense of urgency to raise the threat level.
Barbara Starr following this story now from the Pentagon this morning -- Barbara, good morning once again.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning again to you, Heidi.
Indeed, officials now saying that there were additional streams of intelligence, corroborating information, that they did not raise the threat level to orange simply based on the information in that computer. That computer containing about 500 images, including surveillance, of course, of those financial targets in New York, Washington and Newark, New Jersey now under additional security.
But officials say that within recent days, intelligence officials say within recent days there was, indeed, additional corroborating intelligence. Some of that more recent intelligence, indeed, focusing on some of those financial targets, at least. But some of that information also relating to the possibility of al Qaeda planning for a terrorist attack inside the United States. All of it, they say, adding up to very significant concern on the part of the administration that al Qaeda might have something in the works.
So the bottom line, they say, is, yes, that computer that was seized did have some old information on it dating back to before the 9/11 attacks, but when they added it up with the additional new information that they got in, which, by the way, they're not saying exactly where that came from, but when they added it all up, they had no choice but to go to the orange threat level -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Something else interesting, talking about adding things up, hearing that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi may have actually tried to contact Osama bin Laden.
Now, tell us a little bit more about that, if you can.
STARR: Indeed, Heidi, defense officials here say that there -- in recent days, again -- have been credible intelligence reports that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian terrorist believed to be operating inside Iraq, behind many of the insurgency attacks, made an effort through his network to contact Osama bin Laden to talk about the insurgency in Iraq. Not clear whether that attempt at contact was successful at all, because, of course, no one really knows where Osama bin Laden is.
But officials say there are reports out there that that attempt was made -- Heidi.
COLLINS: We'll wait to hear more about that, of course.
And Barbara Starr, thanks so much, from the Pentagon this morning -- Bill.
HEMMER: Heidi, the 9/11 Commission recommendations get another hearing today on Capitol Hill. Commission member John Lehman will testify before the House Intelligence Committee. The former Navy secretary told a congressional panel yesterday that, "Oversight reform should be priority number one."
John Lehman my guest here now in New York.
Mr. Secretary, good morning to you.
JOHN LEHMAN, FORMER SECRETARY OF NAVY: Good morning.
HEMMER: How much of this are you going to get through?
LEHMAN: I think we're going to get it all through. I'm very optimistic. Because, first of all, I think people are beginning to see this is not a Chinese menu that you can pick and choose. It's a fundamental systematic change, a complete change of the way this nation does its intelligence. So it's pretty hard to say well. We'll do that when that's easy, this one's a little tougher, we'll put that aside.
So I think the pressure is on. I think people, particularly after having read our report, see this, the whole world in a different way, and see our government in a different way, that this is deeply broken, the way we do our intelligence and how we keep our leaders informed.
HEMMER: Part of what you said yesterday, the oversight mechanisms created in the cold war era are no longer appropriate. You continued, "It's time for an entirely new system."
Define that.
LEHMAN: Well, we are depending today on institutions and procedures that were developed really in the decades immediately after World War 2 to deal with the Soviet Union, with the KGB, with China, with nation states. And then as terrorism emerged in the '80s, we, again, applied the same approach, the same mentality to what we called state-sponsored terrorism. We viewed this as just another tool of nation states.
Now we have something that is entirely different. It's a transnational ideological movement against all of our institutions. And the United States is the chief target, but all of the West, all of the democracies in the world are really the target.
HEMMER: Let me stop you there and let's talk about what will be created. If you get a new intelligence chief in the U.S. that oversees more than a dozen agencies, how much power should that individual have? And should that be a cabinet level position?
LEHMAN: Well, it's interesting, it definitely should be a cabinet level, but not necessarily in the cabinet. In fact, I personally don't think it should be in the cabinet and we did not recommend it be in the cabinet.
HEMMER: That did not come out of the commission.
LEHMAN: The commission did not recommend it.
HEMMER: Does this individual have budget power?
LEHMAN: This individual has to have budget power, but not just budget power; also has to have appropriations and reprogramming power, which is essential to do that -- has to have hire and fire power over the key officials throughout the intelligence agency, has to have the power to impose I.T., that is, communications, computers, protocols so that the 15 different agencies can communicate with each other.
HEMMER: And despite the push back you were getting yesterday a little bit from the FBI side, you think this is going to get done?
LEHMAN: Well, the FBI, as a bureaucracy, as opposed to the leadership, which, I think, is very much aware of the problems, the FBI, for the first time, will be brought into the fusion of the intelligence center. So they are going to resist this. And CIA will resist it. Again, not the leadership necessarily, but the bureaucracy.
HEMMER: You know, Mr. Secretary, one thing that came out of this commission is that everyone said overwhelming this was bipartisan, Republicans and Democrats, men and women working together. You did a story at the "National Review" online, Rich Lawry, and you said, in part, when Richard Clarke came in, you said, "We were mugged by Viacom. They edited his book to make it into an anti-Bush jihad."
Was that statement, in fact, what you said? LEHMAN: No, that's not the commission, that's me speaking. That's -- I was kind of shocked that -- at that hearing because Richard Clarke had been such a credible witness who spent three full days with us and really helped us to understand the problem more than any other single witness. He was totally objective, let the chips fall where they may.
But then we saw this tremendous orchestration to make his best seller and it only told one side of the story, essentially.
And so I was -- we were all surprised at the hearing, because all of us expected to have a reprise of what he gave us in private.
Now, he didn't tell us -- make any -- he didn't say anything false or anything. He just told half the story. So -- and it was all part of their orchestration to get the book through. So that's why I was kind of disappointed.
HEMMER: I wanted to clear that up.
Thank you.
John Lehman here in New York.
LEHMAN: A pleasure.
HEMMER: Heidi.
COLLINS: New information this morning on the terror arrests in Britain now. There's word from Pakistani intelligence officials that information from a terror suspect there may have led to the capture of at least one of the suspects in Britain.
Jim Boulden is live in London now with more on this.
Jim -- hello.
JIM BOULDEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Heidi.
Good morning.
Yes, I'm standing outside of the Paddington Green Police Station, where 12 of the 13 men arrested yesterday are currently being interrogated. But let's bring you back up to date on what we have heard from CNN in Pakistan. They have confirmed with intelligence sources in Pakistan that Naeem Noor Khan, the man who is talked about as a computer expert for al Qaeda, traveled extensively to the U.K. and that his family has connections with the U.K. through one of the -- one airline. And that Noor Khan's interrogating of him has led to at least one of the arrests of one of the 12 men currently being held. And this man is being called a key al Qaeda suspect. So that is brand new information.
The British police will not confirm. They don't deny it, but they will not confirm, which is very typical here in the U.K. They usually do not talk at all about suspects that have been arrested. These men can be held here, Heidi, for 14 days.
Now, I also want to tell you that this morning that raids were continuing throughout the U.K. They were executing search warrants in a number of locations. No new arrests today. But police have been searching a number of houses here in London, around London and in the north. And, also, we have heard from one witness yesterday who talked about the rather dramatic daylight raid that took place.
Here is Lincoln Leslie.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINCOLN LESLIE, WITNESS: And I was up the ladder and I noticed the flashing lights. And I realized they blocked the traffic down there and they prevented the traffic coming down here and turning. Police were standing there with these weapons. I don't know what -- a rifle, whatever it was. Then I realized there was a brown car and the front door was open and an officer was holding this guy over the car. And he must have held him there for well over an hour.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOULDEN: Now, while the police continue to interrogate the suspects here at Paddington Green, the police did release a statement that said that the arrests led from an ongoing intelligence operation and that it's looking into "international terrorism."
That leads us to believe that there were police sources, probably from the U.S., certainly from Pakistan and others, who were watching these men, looking into what these men were doing and that it was an international decision to arrest the men. The British police are very adept at watching people for a very long time. It's very unusual for them to make daylight raids.
So, Heidi, something tipped them off, something made them think we'd better arrest these guys now because they might figure out that we've been looking into them. And those daylight raids happened. And, as I say, now they're still at Paddington Green Station. It could be up to 14 days until we actually get more definitive information -- Heidi, that's it.
Back to you.
COLLINS: All right, Jim Boulden, thanks so much for that.
We'll talk more about this with our guest from the "Washington Post" coming up in the 8:30 half hour.
Jim, thanks again.
HEMMER: Back in this country now, Mary Kay Letourneau, the teacher who served seven years in prison for having a sexual relationship with a sixth grader, is now free.
Kimberly Osias live in Gig Harbor, Washington this morning for us -- good morning there. KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good morning, Bill.
Well, Mary Kay Letourneau surprised waiting media by slipping out untaped and unnoticed. She slipped out of the Washington State Correctional Facility for Women at about 1:00 a.m. to protesters carrying signs saying, "I'm 18" and "Take Me." This, after spending seven years behind bars for having sex with sixth grader Vili Fualaau. She crossed over what many would consider taboo ethical, moral and legal lines as his teacher.
Pregnant by Fualaau, Mary Kay Letourneau pled guilty to two counts of child rape back in 1997. After five months in jail, a judge gave her a second chance. But right after her release, she defied a court order and was caught having sex in a car with Fualaau. They had about $6,000 in cash and clothes in the car.
She landed back in jail, where she gave birth to the pair's second child. Now, she is starting again, only this time she has to register as a level two sex offender and for the next three years she will be under close scrutiny and watch and any kind of relationship she will have at all in a romantic way, she will have to report that to authorities.
As far as working or teaching with children ever again, it's strictly off limits -- Bill.
HEMMER: Kimberly Osias, thanks, in Washington State this morning.
Thirteen minutes past the hour.
A check of the other news now.
For that, here's Daryn Kagan yet again at the CNN Center -- good morning, Daryn.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Bill, good morning.
There is word of fierce fighting in the Iraqi city of Mosul. Hospital officials say at least 12 people were killed and dozens more wounded. Meanwhile, four Jordanian hostages have been set free. One of the hostage's brothers says the workers arrived in Jordan earlier today. There are also reports that two Turkish hostages have been freed. That's according to the Arabic language network Al Jazeera.
Here in the States, a new development could affect the Kobe Bryant case. "Sports Illustrated" reports that a Florida waitress claims Kobe Bryant groped her. It reportedly happened at the home of his former Los Angeles Lakers teammate, Shaquille O'Neal. Now, Shaq could possibly be called as a witness in Bryant's upcoming sexual assault trial.
An investigation is under way near Austin, Texas after a small plane crashed into a mansion and exploded. Six people on the Piper Aerostar were killed. Three people in the house at the time of the crash survived. Witnesses heard the plane's engine sputter before it crashed.
And in Cleveland, "American Idol" fever is taking over. About 15,000 people spent the night sleeping outside Cleveland Browns Stadium. They're hoping to become the nation's next pop superstar. Auditions for "American Idol's" fourth season began in Cleveland just minutes ago.
All is not lost, Bill, though. Seven more stops on the audition tour. But you might be a little too old to try out.
HEMMER: You think so?
KAGAN: Despite how you look.
HEMMER: Yes, 15,000, I think that's more than they get for the Indians games these days, right?
KAGAN: Yes. More promise of success on "Idol," yes.
HEMMER: All right, thank you, Daryn.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COLLINS: Still to come, the latest in the case of Private First Class Lynndie England. Why an international embarrassment for the United States is turning out to be a personal embarrassment for the soldier at the center of the scandal.
HEMMER: Also in a moment here, the story of four American teachers who left Kuwait fearing for their lives, they say. Now they're being sued because of it. We'll get to that.
COLLINS: And Mark Hacking caught on tape moments after authorities say he killed his wife. The latest on what appears to be a stunning confession ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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COLLINS: Authorities in Salt Lake City say evidence in the case of Lori Hacking, who disappeared more than two weeks ago, now includes her husband's murder confession.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID YOCOM, SALT LAKE CITY COUNTY PROSECUTOR: Mark Hacking told this reliable citizen witness that he killed Lori while she was asleep in bed and disposed of her body in a dumpster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Mark Hacking is expected to be formally charged next week in the killing of his wife.
KSL Radio host Doug Wright joins us from Salt Lake City now to talk more about the case.
Mr. Wright, thanks again for being with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
DAVID WRIGHT, KSL RADIO HOST: Thank you.
COLLINS: What a strange turn of events with this confession and the very specific evidence, too, of the knife, the blood and the mattress. It's all contained in those court documents.
What can you tell us about this?
WRIGHT: Well, these are all things that we'd heard about and had been speculated about. We have had unconfirmed reports of this and off the record reports. And now so many of those things fell into place in this amended probable cause yesterday.
I mean that bloody knife, the blood on the bedstead, the blood on the rails of the bed. And then finding the mattress that has become infamous in the dumpster. And then also finding the blood flakes and the blood swipes in Lori's car that matched the blood samples that they found in the apartment. And then, probably the most startling of all was to find out that we have this -- and it's interesting how the police worded this -- the reliable citizen witness who said that Mark actually confessed that he killed his wife in her sleep and then dumped her body in the dumpster.
It was just shocking yesterday to actually see that in print, all of the things that had been speculated about.
COLLINS: Yes, Doug, those words, the reliable, credible -- pardon me -- reliable citizen witness, any indication from what you're hearing about whether or not that person was a patient?
WRIGHT: There are only -- you know, who knows in this case what is likely, what is probable versus possible? But we're thinking that it's either a family member, it's either a staff member up there at the hospital or it's a patient.
I think the police -- and this is pure speculation -- they're saying reliable citizen witness, that leads us to believe perhaps not a patient. Most likely, we're thinking, family member, but, again, that's speculation.
COLLINS: Well, clearly that is the question there.
Also, we want to get to the surveillance tape now. We saw that come out last night, pretty eerie stuff. We're looking at it now.
When Mark Hacking comes back in alone by himself, 1:18 a.m., the day that Lori disappeared, do you notice anything odd in that tape? What do you see when you look at it?
WRIGHT: When I look at it, if you did not know the story, if you did not know the person, didn't know basically the time frame that we think this is in, you might just blow it off. But the fact that he touches his nose, the fact that he looks down at his hands and then he appears to kind of pick and brush at his hands, and then he looks over at his watchband on his left arm and seems to extract something, pick something away from the watchband, it's absolutely creepy. You know, your imagination runs wild.
But putting it in context and thinking that just moments before, minutes before, an hour before he killed Lori, it's chilling.
COLLINS: Well, we know the search for Lori's body will resume again tonight with the cadaver dogs at the landfill.
WRIGHT: Right.
COLLINS: If police do find her body and do determine that she was, indeed, pregnant, how is that going to affect the charges in this case?
WRIGHT: I specifically asked the police that yesterday on my radio program and they are saying that there is the possibility he could be charged with a double homicide. So obviously there are lots of reasons they want to find Lori's body. I thought Chief Dinse was very sensitive when he said we don't want this to be the last resting place of Lori Hacking.
So just to retrieve the body, certainly, but then to also get the additional evidence and to find out once and for all whether or not she was pregnant. And that could mean a double murder charge for Mark.
COLLINS: All right, Doug Wright, KSL Radio host, thanks so much, as always, from Salt Lake City this morning.
WRIGHT: Thank you.
COLLINS: Bill. HEMMER: About 23 minutes past the hour.
Now back with Jack in a moment here.
Also in a moment, for a lot of workers, there is no such thing as a lunch hour. But are you risking your own health by eating at your desk? A new study is out. Sanjay has it. We'll talk to him a little bit later on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back, everyone.
Here's Jack again, The Question of the Day.
CAFFERTY: Please do not send any more answers about the Quad Cities, OK? I have 600 answers to that Quad City...
COLLINS: We got it.
HEMMER: You knew we were walking into that an hour ago.
CAFFERTY: And the fourth one was Bettendorf and we thank you all, but knock it off. All right, here's the deal. If the government raises the threat level and nothing happens, they're criticized for crying wolf. If they don't say anything and something does happen, then they're in trouble for that.
So the question is this, do you want to be informed about the threats or do you trust the government to keep you safe?
Celia in Lawrence, Kansas writes: "Tell me, but tell me, too, on the front end if the information is three years old."
Grace in Austin, Texas: "It's essential I have information so I can make educated decisions. It's the government's job to keep us informed and protect us as much as possible. But one has to use that information in order to keep one's self out of harm's way."
Nick in Bonaire, Georgia: "If the threats are deemed very credible, then, no, we should not be informed. So long as the responsible agencies take care of the threat. On the other hand, I don't trust the government to protect us, never h."
Ken in Atlanta: "I want to be told honestly when there's a credible threat. I do not want to hear about a threat that the administration has known about for weeks or months only to be released when the president needs a political boost. Tom Ridge's praise of the president's leadership this time around makes it crystal clear that this is political. What a shame."
And Grayce in Trevose, Pennsylvania: "Trust the government? Yes, and last night I got a dollar from the tooth fairy, money really does grow on trees and what your mother told you about going blind is true."
COLLINS: Oh, my.
CAFFERTY: Some of the guys in the crew know what that last one was about, don't they?
HEMMER: Yes.
Jack, a question for you. Tell me, where's Bettendorf, Iowa?
CAFFERTY: I don't want to do this anymore.
HEMMER: Or was that in Illinois?
CAFFERTY: That was at 7:00 this morning.
COLLINS: We're having a matinee.
CAFFERTY: I did make a mistake, though. It's Rock Island, not Rockford.
HEMMER: Rock Island.
COLLINS: Yes. CAFFERTY: Please don't -- don't bring this up anymore.
HEMMER: All right.
CAFFERTY: I'm begging you.
COLLINS: We can't stop.
CAFFERTY: Just stop.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.
In a moment here, a rather embarrassing situation for Private First Class Lynndie England getting even worse. A look at her first day in court in a moment.
Also ahead, the threat of a terrorist attack looms over the nation's capital. But some people there might be more concerned about snarled traffic.
Back in a moment, the bottom of the hour in two minutes here on AMERICAN MORNING.
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