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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Military Intelligence Suggests al Qaeda Reopening Training Camps Along Afghan/Pakistan Border; Two Arrested In Albany In Connection With Terrorist Plot; New Evidence Delays Scott Peterson Trial
Aired August 5, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening. I'm Anderson Cooper.
Pakistan, friend or foe, or somewhere in between? Are they still allowing terrorists to be trained in Pakistan?
360 starts now.
Two arrested in a mosque raid in Albany, New York. The latest on an alleged plan to launder money to terrorists.
Fierce fighting in Najaf. U.S. troops and Iraqi security forces team up to battle Muqtada al-Sadr's army.
Kerry takes on Bush over his 9/11 reaction. Why did he just sit there? Tough talk in what's becoming an even tougher campaign.
The Peterson trial suspended till Tuesday so the judge can examine new evidence. Will it clear Scott Peterson?
Mark Hacking allegedly confessed to his own brother that he killed Lori Hacking. Now his family speaks out about murder, lies, and videotape.
And rapid detox. Can addicts get clean in a matter of hours, not weeks? We'll talk to an OxyContin addict trying to live clean and sober.
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
COOPER: Good evening. We begin with some breaking news.
A possible major development in the war on terror, the apparent capture of one person who may have been among those plotting to attack financial centers in this country. We have just got in new details in the last few minutes.
So let's go right to justice correspondent Kelli Arena for the latest. Kelli, what do you know?
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, tonight we have information on who officials believe conducted some of the surveillance on potential targets here in the United States. Law enforcement sources tell CNN that Esa al-Hindi, a man in custody in Britain, was on the ground in New York in early 2001, and they say that they believe he conducted some of the early surveillance.
ARENA (voice-over): One of the men arrested this week in Britain is described as a senior al Qaeda operative. Intelligence sources tell CNN his name is Esa al-Hindi. U.S. officials say he is a major player who moved operational information between key components of al Qaeda in Britain, Pakistan, and the United States.
EVAN KOHLMANN, GLOBALTERRORALERT.COM: He's someone with military experience. He's someone who is perfectly fluent in English, in Urdu, in Arabic. He's a transnational al Qaeda operative who has his fingers in many pots.
ARENA: Terrorism experts say al-Hindi is a Muslim convert and former commander of an al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan. Investigators believe he was plotting to attack London's Heathrow Airport based on intelligence from Pakistan.
KOHLMANN: I think it's an ominous sign. Whenever there is an attack of this scale going on in London, it's not just the British thing, it's a U.S. thing too. Because most of the time when al Qaeda strikes, it tends to strike in multiple simultaneous attacks.
ARENA: Sources say al-Hindi's arrest was the result of arrests in Pakistan, specifically of alleged al Qaeda computer expert Muhammad Naeem Noor Khan. In fact, that one capture has led to multiple intelligence leads, not just in the U.K. but in the U.S. as well, with officials confirming Khan made contact with an individual or individuals in the United States.
JAMES COMEY, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: We have, as we've said before, reason to believe that we are in a very serious threat environment, and we're working like crazy to try and make sure that threat does not come to fruition.
ARENA: Part of the search for al Qaeda operatives in the United States continues to focus on who may have conducted the surveillance of several potential targets.
ARENA: And while al-Hindi is thought to have conducted some of the surveillance, investigators say that they have evidence to suggest that other parts of the surveillance on those financial buildings was an inside job, Anderson.
COOPER: Well, Kelli, let's just be very clear about it. The surveillance that al-Hindi is alleged to have been involved with, this is surveillance that occurred before 9/11.
ARENA: That's right. This is the surveillance that was discovered in Pakistan that, as you know, most of it done pre-9/11. They believe that al-Hindi was one of the people that did part of that surveillance. COOPER: So the new information, really, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that you're just getting in is that al-Hindi -- you're actually getting the name put to who was doing the surveillance, that's what...
ARENA: Right. As you know...
COOPER: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
ARENA: Right, Anderson, one of the big efforts on the part of law enforcement right now is to find out who conducted that surveillance, if there is anybody here in the United States poised to attack. This is a very significant breakthrough for them, especially if it leads them back to individuals in the United States.
COOPER: And at this point, do we know when they received this information about...
COOPER: ... al-Hindi being this person? We don't know.
COOPER: All right, Kelli Arena, thanks very much.
ARENA: You're welcome.
COOPER: Let's move on to a smaller fry. Word of the bust of two members of an upstate New York mosque for allegedly plotting to help terrorists. Here is CNN's Alina Cho.
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mohammed Hossain and Yasin Aref (ph) were led away in handcuffs following their arraignment hearing at the federal courthouse in Albany Thursday. The two men were arrested overnight after FBI agents raided a downtown Albany mosque where the two served as leaders. Authorities say they were caught following a year-long investigation and sting operation.
COMEY: A sting in which the government offered two men the opportunity to assist someone who they believed was a terrorist facilitator, supplying weapons to be used to commit terrorist acts.
CHO: Law enforcement sources say the men tried to help the FBI informant, posing as a terrorist, launder money from the sale of a shoulder-fired missile, that the informant had told the men that the missile, which was actually a decoy, would be used against Pakistan's U.N. ambassador in retaliation for Pakistan's support for the U.S. in the war on terrorism.
New York's governor, George Pataki, called the arrest an example of government acting proactively.
GOV. GEORGE PATAKI (R), NEW YORK: I just want to reassure the public here in Albany and in New York and across America that our government, our administration in Washington, this state government, and local officials are taking this threat to our freedom very seriously...
CHO: Hossain, a longtime resident of Albany, owns a pizzeria and lives with his wife and five children in the apartment upstairs. In a recent interview with a local paper, he said he was proud to be an American.
MOSSAMMAT HOSSAIN, WIFE OF MOHAMMED HOSSAIN: My husband, I'm doing business 10 years in the downtown. I have (UNINTELLIGIBLE) pizza shop. I'm (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 10 years, me and my husband. My customers, our neighbor, everybody know us. So I think -- I don't think anything we are doing wrong against our country.
CHO: At this hour, Albany's Muslim community is holding a news conference right behind me. That is the mosque president. It is taking place at the very mosque that was targeted in that FBI raid last night. Earlier in a statement, they said they are against all forms of terrorism. And Anderson, they are urging the media to exercise restraint in this case.
COOPER: Alina Cho, live in Albany. Thanks, Alina.
If the war in terror were viewed as a teeter-totter, Pakistan would be at the fulcrum, the point around which the conflict swings. On the upside, there's no question that hundreds of al Qaeda operatives have been captured there. On the downside, it appears more are being trained right there, right now.
Here is CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. defense and intelligence sources tell CNN recent information shows al Qaeda activity at locations inside Pakistan may be a sign that terrorist training camps are once again active. That information in part comes from aerial reconnaissance and imagery taken along the southern border with Afghanistan. Sources say the pictures show cars and vehicles in certain areas that the U.S. believes may be training camps.
But more than a month after the information first came to the attention of the Pentagon and the CIA, no one is sure what it all means. Intelligence analysts are trying to determine if indeed al Qaeda has resumed training.
MATTHEW LEVITT, WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY: The fact that training camps have sprouted up again or, to be more accurate, that they're repopulated, is of tremendous concern.
STARR: The Bush administration supports recently stepped-up efforts by Pakistani president Pervez Musharaf's military to shut down Taliban and al Qaeda strongholds along the border with Afghanistan. RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: I think it is quite clear the Pakistani government has turned on the Taliban, has turned on al Qaeda, has turned on any idea that they -- people might receive training or support from it, Pakistan...
STARR: U.S. officials say there is no indication this recent al Qaeda activity is tied to the increased terrorist threat warnings in the U.S.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
COOPER: Well, the terror camp activity is a troubling sign in Pakistan, but the country has been actively pursuing al Qaeda operatives. Here's a quick fast fact for you. Since the attacks of September 11, Pakistan has arrested more than 550 al Qaeda suspects, of those, 553 have been senior members of the terror group -- Abu Zubaydah, Ramzi Binalshibh, as well as Khalid Shaikh Mohammed.
Today's buzz question is this. Do you think Pakistan is an ally or enemy in the war on terror? Vote now at CNN.com/360. We'll have results at the end of the show. We'll also talk more about this later on 360.
To Iraq now, a place that hasn't been in the headlines much lately. But whether other stories took precedence or the world's attention was elsewhere, it remains an extremely deadly place. Sixty- five Americans have died since power was handed over to Iraqi, it was around June 30. And today it became clear that the fighting and the dying there are far from over.
CNN's John Vause reports on this day of violence.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From Najaf, to Baghdad, to Basra, a day of violent uprising by those loyal to the radical Shi'a cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We got orders from Muqtada al-Sadr to strike the Americans wherever they are.
VAUSE: They fled in Najaf when it became clear Iraqi police and national guard were outgunned and outnumbered. The governor there called in the U.S. Marines.
On the city's outskirts, one U.S. soldier was killed, five wounded when their convoy was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade. The fighting also claimed the lives of an Iraqi policeman, a doctor, and two civilians. Seven insurgents were killed, according to the U.S. military.
Helicopters flying overhead came under constant attack. One evacuating a wounded soldier was brought down by small-arms fire. Two U.S. soldiers were hurt in the emergency landing. With the people of Najaf under curfew, explosions rock the city. The fighting raged within half a mile of the sacred Imam Ali (ph) mosque. Those loyal to al-Sadr say the holy shrine was damaged by American troops. The U.S. military describes that claim as suspect.
Still, over the mosque loudspeakers, calls for the people to rise up and join the fight to defend the holiest site for Shi'a Muslims.
In the Baghdad neighborhood of Sadr City, a U.S. patrol came under heavy attack by his militia. Five soldiers were lightly wounded. And to the south, in Basra, British troops fought gun battles with al-Sadr's men, shooting two of them dead.
VAUSE: The fragile truce which the U.S. negotiated with Muqtada al-Sadr less than two months ago is now over, with each side blaming the other. But regardless of who is at fault, Anderson, it a serious setback to bringing security to Iraq.
COOPER: John Vause, thanks very much, live from Baghdad.
New searches in the anthrax investigation. That story tops our look at news cross-country tonight.
Western New York state and Ocean County, New Jersey, government sources say that FBI and postal inspection services are searching homes in their investigation into that 2001 anthrax attack. Won't give specifics as to what the agents are looking for. Now, some officials involved in the investigation say little progress has been made in finding who sent the anthrax-laced letters. And certainly, as we all know, no arrests.
In Chicago, alleged terror plot foiled. FBI agents nabbed a 66- year-old man they say was planning to blow up a federal courthouse with a truck bomb made of ammonium nitrate fertilizer. The suspect allegedly tried to buy the material from an undercover FBI agent.
Sacramento, California, now, fugitive no more. Murder suspect William Nestler has surrendered to police. Nestler, a child molestation victim, became nationally known 11 years ago when his mother killed his alleged molester in court. He's now a murder suspect.
In New York, conjoined twins separated through a delicate marathon operation. Doctors surgically separated the heads of two Filipino twin boys. Doctors say the 2-year-olds are strong and stable, in their words, but they'll be closely monitored in the coming days for infections or other medical problems that might develop.
That's a quick look cross-country tonight.
A potentially important development in the Scott Peterson murder trial. The trial is on hold because of some new evidence. The question is, could it actually clear Scott Peterson? Details ahead. Plus Mark Hacking, allegedly confessing to murder. Turns out he spoke to his brothers, and they've spoken to police. A short time ago, his family made a statement. We'll find out that they said.
And Oxycontin addiction, a tough, painful thing to break. We're going to talk to a recovering addict by about a new rapid detox that he's hoping will keep him clean and sober.
All that ahead. First, let's take a look at your picks, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.
COOPER: Well, before anyone knew Lori Hacking was dead, before anyone lost hope, her husband had a dark secret, a secret he apparently shared with his brothers. They say Mark Hacking confessed to killing his pregnant wife, Lori, stabbing her to death while she slept.
Tonight, while he remains under a suicide watch, police and cadaver dogs continue a difficult, dirty search in a landfill looking for Lori Hacking's body.
CNN's Miguel Marquez is covering the case, joins us now live from Salt Lake City. Miguel, what's the latest?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, just a short time ago, Anderson, the Hacking family released a statement that essentially related to information that came about on July 24. That's when Mark Hacking was in a psychiatric hospital here in Salt Lake City. And there's almost 2,000 volunteers were out there searching for Lori Hacking.
Mark Hacking confided in his brothers, Lance and Scott Hacking, that he had in fact killed his wife, Lori, while she slept and put her in a dumpster. Now, that information was turned over to police say, say the Hackings in this statement, and that information also became a major reason why Scott Hacking was arrested when he was.
This, of course, also means that at some point in the future, Scott Hacking or Mark Hacking could sit there in court and listen to his brothers testify against him. And that's what has -- part of what has the family very upset about this information as it has come out.
And this as the search of the city landfill is set to resume tonight. They went for about five or six hours last night. They got through a couple of hundred tons of garbage last night. And it all -- they have about 4,200 tons to possibly sift through to find the body of Lori Hacking, hopefully find the body of Lori Hacking.
Now, they work at night because the cadaver dogs are much more effective and efficient at night when the temperatures are lower than during the day when the garbage is much hotter and putting off a lot more smell.
The other thing that has happened today is that the district attorney asked for and received an extension to file charges. He now has until Monday at 5:00 p.m. Mountain time. But it is not clear that if they find that body over the weekend, if that would affect that extension, because the police would want to go through and get whatever forensic evidence they could from any possible body they find, Anderson.
COOPER: And any word on motive? I mean, did the family say anything about that in their statement today?
MARQUEZ: It is not clear on motive. There has been some local news reports on motive, the father telling the Associated Press that the motive may have been that Lori found out his secret about the lie in getting accepted to medical school, and that he had a, in his father's word, a psychiatric breakdown.
COOPER: All right. Miguel Marquez, thanks very much for that.
MARQUEZ: Thank you.
COOPER: Harsh words on the campaign trail today. John Kerry making some pointed comments about President Bush's actions on 9/11, in particular, why he sat for several minutes with schoolkids after he was told, We're under attack. Fair comments or foul play? Hear it for yourself.
Also tonight, Pakistan, friend or foe on the war on terror? Making some arrests, but according to reports, there are still terror training camps there. We'll talk more about that.
Plus, overcoming Oxycontin, breaking the cycle of addiction. A new rapid detox cure offers hope. We'll talk to an addict who has done it and find out if it works.
COOPER: Well, overcoming drug addiction is time consuming and excruciatingly painful. But there's now a procedure that promises to speed up the process.
As our senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta reports, for some drug addicts, it is getting easier to become clean and sober.
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In "The Basketball Diaries," Leonardo diCaprio is acting the pain of drug withdrawal. But 28-year-old Valerie Coody wishes it was just an act for her.
VALERIE COODY, DETOX PATIENT: You're cold, you're hot, you're anxious, no sleeping, your body just craves the drug.
GUPTA: In this case, the drug was an opiate called Percocet, a prescription pain medication. Her story is not uncommon. A federal study shows 1.5 million of the 30 million patients who used prescription pain relievers in 2002 became dependent. Years ago, after a knee operation, Valerie was prescribed Percocet for postoperative pain. Soon, she was popping 20 to 30 a day.
COODY: It's almost like you can function better when you're on them than having to go through withdrawal.
GUPTA: Scared of withdrawal, but knowing something had to be done, and quickly, Valerie tried a relatively new technique called rapid detox. Typically, a person is weaned from drugs slowly. With rapid detox, patients are given anesthesia and then given an opiate- blocking drug called naltrexone that causes nearly immediate withdrawal.
Now, if naltrexone were given without anesthesia, the heart rate would increase, breathing would become labored, and the patient would feel violently ill. But the anesthesia seems to block all those ill effects, and detox can be almost immediate, just a few hours instead of weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're very excited when they wake up and they're not craving. They can't believe it.
GUPTA: Still, patients do require several days in the program for medications and further counseling, and some doctors worry about the risks of general anesthesia.
For Valerie, it worked, and life is better without the haze of Percocet.
COODY: I can look at my little boy and enjoy him, because I will never have this time back.
GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Washington.
COOPER: Well, joining us now from Kansas City, Missouri, a man who's been addicted to OxyContin for three years. Last month he underwent rapid detox. We've agreed not to use his last name.
Greg, we appreciate you joining us tonight. Thanks very much for being with us.
GREG, RAPID DETOX PATIENT: It's good to be here, Anderson. Thank you.
COOPER: Let me ask you, what was withdrawal like for you under this rapid detox?
GREG: Withdrawal with this rapid detox actually was nothing that I thought it was going to be like. I actually came out 110 percent better than I thought that I was going to, to be, be able to do it on my own. But I really think that this program helped me out a lot and (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: But, I mean, did, did you have, did you have the physical pains of withdrawal, or were you out for the whole thing?
GREG: Oh, no, I was out for the whole thing.
COOPER: What, what, what -- you, I know you started -- you had, you had pain, and that's why you were prescribed Oxycontin for -- after some back surgery. What was it like being addicted to it?
GREG: Oh, boy, to be honest with you, it was up and down. Most of the time it was horrible. I just sat back, and I'd think to myself when the next time I was going to take one. I mean, I was taking so many a day, and I just really didn't know what to do with myself. You know, I just made myself occupied enough to sit there and try to think to myself, I don't need it, I don't need it.
But as the time came, I kept on taking more and more throughout the day to where it got myself to where I was such a high that I just really didn't know what to do with myself anymore. And this just went on for, you know, like I said, for quite a while, for about three years.
GREG: There was a time I did try to detox myself and didn't really work too well.
GREG: That's the reason why I went through this program.
COOPER: What was that like, trying to do it on your own?
GREG: On my own, it's terrible. I mean, you just -- the withdrawal, you got hot and cold sweats, I mean, insomnia, just feels like somebody just pulled your heart out of your chest. It's just, it's the worst thing you could go through.
COOPER: You know, there are doctors...
GREG: It is basically like...
COOPER: I'm sorry, go ahead.
GREG: It's just like (UNINTELLIGIBLE) having five times the worst flu you've ever had in your life. I mean, that's basically, that's the way that I can put it from my experience. You know, I just -- it is horrible. It is the worst thing you could ever do.
COOPER: There are a lot of doctors, though, who say, you know, who warn against this rapid detox, basically saying you're under anesthesia for a long period of time. They warn against that. Did you have concerns going into it?
GREG: I had a little bit of concerns. I didn't really have too much. I did some research and everything before I had actually gone down there and had the detox done. And a lot of the information I'd gotten, you know, feedbackwise, before I had gone down there wasn't really what I wanted to hear. But it was, once the phone call got made, it kind of calmed me down and said, OK, I can do this. COOPER: Well, Greg, it takes a lot of courage just to try to lick this thing. And we appreciate you being on the program and wish you a lot of luck.
GREG: I thank you so much.
COOPER: The Peterson trial suspended until Tuesday so the judge can examine new evidence. Will it clear Scott Peterson?
And Kerry takes on Bush over his 9/11 reaction. Why he did just sit there? Tough talk in what is becoming an even tougher campaign.
COOPER: In the next half hour on 360, Tiggers may bounce and pounce, but they don't grope. We'll talk to the lawyer who proved that to a Florida jury.
And the Scott Peterson trial put on hold. Surprising events today that could have a major impact on the case.
All that ahead, but first, let's check out stop stories in the reset.
Salt Lake City, Utah, the father of Mark Hacking says his son has admitted to killing his wife, Lori. Douglas Hacking said his son made the confession to his brothers when they visited him in a psychiatric ward nearly two weeks ago.
An al Qaeda suspect arrested in London, England, may have been involved in a suspected terror plot against U.S. financial centers. The suspect Esa al-Hindi, is believed to have written surveillance reports on five buildings in New York, New Jersey, and Washington. This is pre-9/11. The discovery of those reports led to a heightened terror alert.
Fierce fighting in Najaf, Iraq. The U.S. military and Iraqi security forces once again battling the militia loyal to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al Sadr. The heavy violence breaks a shaky truce established in June.
And in Washington, the Bush campaign is distancing itself from a new ad by a group of Vietnam vets. The ad accuses Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry of lying about his war record. The Bush campaign says it never has and never will question Kerry's service in Vietnam.
And that's the top stories in "The Reset."
Now, if you watched law and order you're probably familiar with Brady material. It's evidence favorable to the accused that the prosecution must disclose to the defense. It's big. And it may be at heart of why the Scott Peterson murder trial stopped dead in its tracks. CNN's Ted Rowlands explains. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Scott Peterson murder trial has come to an unexpected halt, with the judge in the case allowing time for scientific testing of new evidence potentially helpful to Peterson. The delay was requested by Peterson's lawyers. The prosecution did not object.
MICHAEL CARDOZA, LEGAL ANALYST: There could only be one thing they are doing forensically, and that's they're relooking at Laci and/or Connor.
ROWLANDS: A source close to the case says the prosecution told Peterson's defense about the potentially exculpatory evidence Wednesday. Prosecutors left the courthouse without talking. Peterson's lawyer Mark Geragos said very little.
MARK GERAGOS, SCOTT PETERSON'S LAWYER: All I can tell you is that obviously, as the judge indicated, we need to follow up on it and that's what we're going to do.
ROWLANDS: Legal experts state fact that the judge stopped testimony to allow for testing is very significant.
CHUCK SMITH, LEGAL ANALYST: As significant as anything that can happen in a trial. Because truly, if this evidence is tested and it is exculpatory, the trial is going to be over.
ROWLANDS: The judge did tell the jury to expect to hear more testimony on Tuesday when they returned. When, according to sources close to the court, Amber Frey will take the stand for the prosecution.
ROWLANDS: A source close to the case tells CNN that what is being tested is material that was found with the remains of Laci Peterson. And that those test results could benefit Scott Peterson. Anderson, those results are expected back on Monday.
COOPER: Ted Rowlands, thanks very much.
Covering the case for us in "Justice Served" tonight CNN senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, and Court TV anchor Lisa Bloom. Appreciate you being with us.
You're already arguing about this case. So, let me try to separate you two. Lisa, any idea what this evidence could be, how significant it may be?
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV: Well, we don't know exactly. If we had a nickel for every time Mark Geragos said we have a new piece of evidence that's going to exonerate Scott Peterson, we wouldn't have this trial. He said it so many times, I doubt the veracity of it.
Something new is happening. That's really all we knew. So scientific testing will be done. And we don't know if this is prosecutorial misconduct or not. They may have just gotten this evidence themselves. It's turned over to the defense. They have a couple of days, not a lot of time. I don't think it's all that significant.
COOPER: Jeffrey Toobin, you say pshaw to the whole thing.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know what's like outrageous about this trial? This is the third month of this trial and there is no end in sight. This is ridiculous. This is not the world's most complicated crime. I don't understand why the judge keeps allowing these delays. This trial should have been over by now and they don't even know -- and Amber Frey is not going to testify until next week, maybe.
COOPER: I remember when she were supposed to be testifying a month ago.
BLOOM: She could be the last witness for the prosecution. The may want to end with a bang. And look, this is the capital case. If there is exculpatory evidence the defense needs time to test. The judge is doing the right thing.
TOOBIN: The prosecution in keeping with its general level of meager competent in this case has not, you know, produced evidence in a timely fashion. That's why they -- earlier in the week it happened...
BLOOM: The judge says this is new evidence. That may mean new to the prosecution. I don't think we can't blame the prosecution for this one.
COOPER: The prosecution was rebuked by the judge in front of the jury.
BLOOM: 2 days ago.
TOOBIN: 2 days ago for failing to disclose exculpatory information.
BLOOM: But that just further supports that if this was something the prosecution did wrong, the judge would have been all over them today and he wasn't. That's why I think this was probably new to the prosecution too.
COOPER: How has Mark Geragos been doing? I mean, you mention that he sort of has been making grandiose statements saying this evidence and throwing a lot of spaghetti and pasta out of the refrigerator door to see what sticks. Is anything sticking?
TOOBIN: I think he's doing pretty well. A lot of the evidence in this case is about Scott Peterson's demeanor. He didn't seem like the kind of person -- he didn't seem like the kind of person who had lost his wife. You know, that kind of stuff I don't think washes with the jury. There is no appropriate way to behave, no single way to behave if your wife is missing. And I think the prosecution spent way too much time on that and not enough time on physical evidence, on specific evidence of what Scott did or didn't do.
BLOOM: The prosecution can't create evidence, they only have the evidence that's given to them by investigators. And they have put on some pretty good evidence, namely that Scott Peterson lied about putting up flyers. He takes a bunch of fliers, he doesn't even put them up. He lies about one his sex life. He lies about one thing after another. Does that up to murder? No, but you have to take everything together.
TOOBIN: The trial along works against the prosecution. If you're a prosecutor you want to say, look, this case is simple. These are the facts. This is what you need to know.
By trying a case for three months, you're telling the jury that this is an incredibly complicated case where you need to know all sorts of details, you need to know that Scott Peterson ordered porn, which I think is fascinating, but who cares. I don't think that is evidence...
BLOOM: He orders hardcore porn and then he cancels it when the police are coming, showing, I think, a guilty mind.
TOOBIN: Because he's embarrassed.
BLOOM: He's a sick puppy. He has got a preoccupation with sex well beyond the average guy. He's having multiple affairs while he's married. He calls himself horny bastard. He orders this explicit porn. And he takes Viagra to go visit his parents.
COOPER: We got to leave it there.
BLOOM: What kind of guy is that? It makes no sense.
TOOBIN: I missed that.
BLOOM: When he was supposedly going south to Mexico, he's got pockets full of Viagra.
COOPER: Well, Uday and Qusay had Viagra too.
BLOOM: Is that true?
COOPER: It is true. Yes.
BLOOM: Little known fact.
COOPER: I don't know why I know that. Lisa bloom, thanks very much.
TOOBIN: That's like a key fact. Totally new on me.
COOPER: All right. Moving on. In this ongoing seemingly never- ending war against terror, it is sometimes difficult to tell who America's friends are. Case in point Pakistan. We have heard all week how information from Pakistani intelligence helped in the arrest of terror suspects on both sides of Atlantic. That's the good news. Bad news is that terrorist training camps in Pakistan appear to have reopened for business.
So, where does Pakistan stand with us, against us, or perhaps, somewhere in between. In Washington tonight, to discuss, a recently back from Pakistan, CNN terrorism analyst, Peter Bergen. And in Islamabad, CNN's Ash-har Quraishi. Appreciate both of you being with us.
Ash-har, what would have been the Pakistan government's response at this point to these U.S. intelligence reports about reopened terrorist training camps inside the borders of Pakistan?
ASH-HAR QURAISHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) has been, if there are any terrorist training (UNINTELLIGIBLE) indicates exactly where the training the camps are. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) now what Pakistan (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in the last year (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
COOPER: Ash-Har, we're having trouble with your audio. So, we're just going to go Peter.
Peter, you were just in Pakistan in Islamabad. How about Pakistani officials defend this?
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, this information came out while I was in transit. But how they defend it? Well, they would just deny it completely. Richard Armitage, Deputy Secretary of State, only 2 weeks ago said that the terrorist training camps are reopening in the Kashmir area of Pakistan. When I talked to a Major General Khan, who is the spokesman for the government, he said that was absolute nonsense.
So, I think they will totally deny this. But CNN is reporting based on intelligence and defense sources that these camps are reopening in the southeast and Arab and Afghanistan based on overhead imagery. And I think that -- if that doesn't surprise me necessarily.
I think one thing we can say, this area along the Afghan/Pakistan border is only recently controlled in any way by the Pakistan government. They only started going in there a year ago. It is -- we have seen videotapes from that region before, Anderson. We talk about two months ago we saw some tape, not this tape, but tapes of small groups of people probably filmed on the Afghan/Pakistan border. So, I don't think it's surprising, but the Pakistani government view is they would deny it is happening.
COOPER; But, you know, Peter, a lot of people who are watching this tonight, sort of, maybe who haven't been there would say, why can't Pakistan just get control over these -- this northwestern territory? You point out in the past that President Musharraf is walking a tight rope. What is that tight rope?
BERGEN: The tight rope is, you know, religious parties in the northwest frontier province now control those areas, which is an indicator of the fact that the al Qaeda program is, let's say, popular. That doesn't actually mean they're going do terrorism, most of the people in this area, but they're certainly sympathetic to the bin Laden message. Point one.
Point two, you know, the Musharraf assassination attempts you talked about involve members of the military, lower levels of the military. We have also seen an assassination attempt against the prime minister designate of Pakistan just recently appointed by Musharraf.
So it is very -- there really is a serious amount of risk with these people. I think that they're doing at the top levels of government what they can. But maybe in parts of the government there are either Taliban sympathizers, certainly as you know, the military intelligence agencies supported the Taliban for years. There has been sort of a purge of that agency of some of those pro-Taliban sympathizers. But it is an extremely complicated situation.
I do think the Pakistani government is doing what it can. The Americans -- American officials keep going over to Pakistan saying do more, do more. There's a certain amount of resentment of that in Pakistan. They feel that they're doing as much as they can, 75 members of Pakistani army have died in military operations against al Qaeda in the past year or so.
COOPER: Well, Peter, I want to ask Ash-har Quraishi about that -- who I think we know have his audio back -- because there was a report in "The New Republic" last month. They basically said that -- I mean, Peter, you referenced these high-level officials from the Bush administration going over there.
They sort of painted that in the light of U.S. officials trying to pressure Pakistan intelligence officials and high government officials to get some high-value arrests around the time of the Democratic convention and at least before the elections.
Ash-har, I'm wondering if that report has made any kind of a big splash in Pakistan, if there's been any public comment about it.
ASH-HAR QURAISHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I interviewed the Pakistan foreign minister just a few weeks ago and the U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage. They both flat out denied that there was any specific pressure in Pakistan to deliver by the Democratic National Convention. Both saying that that pressure -- or at least Mr. Armitage saying that that pressure was constant and that it was not increased for any reason.
Now, Peter and I discussed this when he was in Islamabad. And it's something that a lot of people are pointing to, because the arrest of Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani, the man implicated in the U.S. embassy bombing in Dar es Salaam, who was arrested here in Pakistan. He was arrested, and the announcement was made on the day of the Democratic National Convention.
Whether or not that was a coincidence, Peter and I have discussed this, and a lot of people say it just purely was coincidence. But clearly from the administration, they're saying -- at least they're denying the "New Republic" report that there was any specific pressure.
COOPER: All right. Ash-har Quraishi, good to talk to you -- Peter Bergen, as well. Thanks very much.
Brings us to today's "Buzz" question. What do you think? Do you think Pakistan is an ally or an enemy in the war on terror? You can vote now: cnn.com/360. Results at the end of the program tonight.
There is no aspect of September 11th beyond the reach of analysis. Every moment has been reviewed; every action and reaction subjected to intense scrutiny. At first as part of the healing process, you might say, then it becomes a way of learning from mistakes.
Today on the campaign trail, it became all about politics. CNN's Dana Bash reports.
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a memorable image of September 11th. The president is told America is under attack. Visibly stunned, he does not leave a Florida classroom.
On a D.C. detour, John Kerry, responding to a question, said he would have acted differently.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would have told those kids very politely and nicely that the president of the United States had something that he needed to attend to. And I would have attended to it.
BASH: Mr. Bush has said he was just trying to project a sense of calm until he had more information. Senator Kerry says being president is about having gut instincts in those situations -- toughness he found on a battlefield.
Hindsight is 20/20, but this is a candidate trying to fight a Bush campaign painting him as indecisive, not fit to lead, and a president Americans still see as best to fight terrorism.
The president in Ohio didn't mention the swipe. Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani did saying, quote, "John Kerry must be frustrated in his campaign if he is armchair quarterbacking based on cues from Michael Moore."
The controversial film "Fahrenheit 9/11" mocks the president for waiting seven minutes before responding. A Kerry spokeswoman says he never saw the film. On the trail, no surrender.
KERRY: I pledge to you, Missouri, I can fight a more effective, smarter, and better war on terror.
WILLIAM J. CLINTON (D), FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Seventy more days before four more years...
BASH: And like Bill Clinton and Al Gore before them, the Senators John Ford and Harry Truman's train, hoping to capture the magic of his famous 1948 Whistle Stop tour.
Dana Bash, CNN, Jefferson City, Missouri.
COOPER: Well, in the end, the jury sided with Tigger. Next on 360, the case of an accused cartoon character is over. We'll talk to his defense lawyer about the Tigger trial.
Also tonight, strong ambitions: A 21-year-old American tries to bench-press the competition at the Olympics and take home the gold. We'll have her story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL WINCHELL, VOICE OF TIGGER (singing): The wonderful thing about Tiggers is Tiggers are wonderful things. Their tops are made of rubber. Their bottoms are made out of springs. They're bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy -- fun, fun, fun, fun, fun! But the most wonderful thing about Tiggers is I'm the only one!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Personally I'm more of a Piglet, Eeyore kind of guy, but Tigger is one of Disney's most loveable characters. Tonight, a man who said playing Tigger was a dream come true is free. A jury found Disney employee Michael Chartrand not guilty of groping a girl while dressed as Tigger at Walt Disney World.
His trial was surreal, with his defense attorney who actually moonlights as Tigger also, wearing the costume during closing arguments.
Joining us now from Orlando is Chartrand's Defense Attorney Jeffrey Kaufman. Jeffrey, good to see you tonight. What do you think this case boiled down to?
JEFFREY KAUFMAN, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL CHARTRAND: I think it boiled down to the facts. In reality, they didn't have any, and that was the problem. You had an issue over people who are trying to sue Disney and lying about it, and an issue of a costume that you can't really receive any sensual gratification from these gloves.
COOPER: So, you basically -- you put on the costume during the trial basically to show, what, that when you're in it, you can't see where your paws are?
KAUFMAN: Well, the intent is to show that there's no visibility from the left to the right, and also to show that when I took it off, they could see exactly how hot it was inside that. And we're only talking about one or two minutes.
COOPER: You actually -- you played Tigger, I guess, every now and then at Disney World. Why do you to that? And what is it like? What is it like inside the costume?
KAUFMAN: Well, the fact is, is that, you know, I get to do it about once a week, and it's a good feeling. You know, it's the only thing you can do where everybody loves you.
Also, you have to realize that being in it for 30 minutes at a time, it's extremely hot. And you have very limited visibility. But you know, it's nice to make kids happy.
COOPER: I read you described it as like wearing like a bath mat around yourself or -- for long periods of time.
KAUFMAN: It's basically a bath mat with the only air holes coming out the nose.
COOPER: And Disney actually wanted -- they didn't want you to sort of wear the costume at the trial. They wanted to alter the costume. What did they -- they wanted to like paint it a different color and cut off the tail? What was that about?
KAUFMAN: Well, you know, I understand. They don't want to affect their trademark. You know, nobody wants to see Tigger doing a closing in front of a jury. But the fact is this, rather that than some painted costume that looks like some demonic character.
COOPER: What is next for your client? Is he going to continue to be Tigger? And do you continue to be Tigger? I mean, have you -- has Disney sort of had any repercussions against you?
KAUFMAN: Well, I haven't heard any yet. But as far as my client goes, he'll have a meeting at 11:00 tomorrow with Disney, where he'll find out if he's got his job back or not.
COOPER: There was a statement from the prosecutor. He said, "It was a close call for the jury. They were not impressed with Kaufman's antics," your antics. "They did not like him. It was a matter of the case not being proven beyond a reasonable doubt."
Fair or not fair?
KAUFMAN: Well, the fact is Mr. Jay lost, and he has to say what he needs to say. The fact is, is that he didn't prove his case beyond a reasonable doubt, even close to a reasonable doubt. They were only out one hour. So, I guess if he's going to call them antics, you know, I'm sitting here and he's not.
COOPER: Jeffrey Kaufman, thanks for being with us.
Her dream is to be the strongest woman in the world. Next on 360, meet the young weightlifter who is hoping to lift the gold medal in Greece.
COOPER: You're about to meet Cheryl Haworth. She's 5'9" and weighs nearly 300 pounds, but don't dare call her overweight. She's an Olympic medalist in weight lifting, and has lifted as much as 25 tons in one workout. As Jason Bellini reports, she's much more than just muscle.
JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cheryl Haworth is 21 years old. She weighs 296 pounds.
CHERYL HAWORTH, OLYMPIC WEIGHT LIFTER: I'm a super heavyweight lifter. And that bulk and that size helps me move a lot of weight.
BELLINI: Until Haworth took up weight lifting in high school, she was self-conscious about her size.
HAWORTH: Every girl, especially, they always have that one hang- up, you know? Like I hate my nose, or my teeth are crooked or this and that. Like, that was just my one thing, but it never really bothered me that much, because I was -- I was never too unpopular.
BELLINI: Popularity isn't a problem for her now either. During competitions, Haworth's fans shout her nickname, Fun.
MICHAEL COWEN, WEIGHT LIFTING COACH: Cheryl came in this gym many years ago, and she had a t-shirt with the words "fun" across the front of the shirt. She wore it every day for like six weeks straight. Same outfit.
HAWORTH: I did not. That's a lie and you know it.
BELLINI: At 17, Haworth was the third strongest woman in the world. She won the Bronze medal in the 2000 Olympics. In Athens, she hopes to become the strongest.
(on camera): You don't seem like the bragging type.
HAWORTH: No. But I'm just saying, like, it is nice to think about it occasionally.
BELLINI: And others can brag about you?
HAWORTH: Yeah. And I can overhear them bragging about me.
BELLINI (voice-over): In 2000, Haworth lifted 319 pounds in the clean and jerk.
HAWORTH: I don't know why it is called the clean. I don't know why it's called jerk.
BELLINI: In the snatch events, she lifted 275 pounds.
(on camera): This time, Cheryl's coach plans to start her at 281 pounds and is prepared to take her as high as 297 pounds.
(voice-over): Haworth lifts the rough equivalent of a refrigerator above her head.
She knows it is not always pretty.
HAWORTH: Nobody looks good lifting weights. My cheeks blow up. You know, my face gets red. You look straight ahead and you look nuts. But if you're a real athlete, you're not going to be concerned with how you look anyway.
BELLINI: But she's sure she'll look pretty good wearing gold.
Jason Bellini, CNN, Savanna, Georgia.
COOPER: A remarkable athlete.
Coming up next on 360, looking for the loot. A rash of bank robberies in Davenport, Iowa. We'll take that to "The Nth Degree."
And tomorrow, "Fahrenheit 9/11" playing on the big screen in the Arab world. Find out what moviegoers there think.
First, today's "Buzz." Do you think Pakistan is an ally or enemy in the war on terror? Log on to cnn.com/360. Cast your vote now. Results when we come back.
COOPER: Time now for "The Buzz." Earlier we asked you, do you think Pakistan is an ally or enemy in the war on terror? Forty-three percent of you said an ally; 47 percent enemy. Not a scientific poll, certainly, but it is your buzz. We appreciate your vote.
Finally tonight, taking Willy Sutton to "The Nth Degree."
Much has been made of the fact that three banks were robbed in Davenport, Iowa yesterday, while President Bush and John Kerry were in town campaigning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ladies and gentlemen, all I can say is President Bush and I have airtight alibis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: But that was for yesterday. What about today? Today, two more banks were robbed in Davenport. Willie Sutton was an infamous bank robber who when asked why he robbed banks, said, "because that's where the money is."
We don't believe Sutton ever robbed a bank in Iowa. He was an East Coast kind of guy. And we're pretty sure he isn't behind the current rash in Davenport, since he died in 1980.
But his rationale still applies. In Davenport, banks are where the money is. Or should I say, was.
That's 360 for tonight. I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks for watching. Coming up next, PAULA ZAHN NOW.
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