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American Morning
Najaf Standoff Almost Over; Athens Mayor Discusses Olympic Security; Avoiding Choking Hazards When Kids Are Eating
Aired August 18, 2004 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Just about half past the hour now on this AMERICAN MORNING. The standoff in Najaf could be coming to a head. One Iraqi official has issued somewhat of an ultimatum. In a moment, we'll go live to the Pentagon. Seems U.S. officials were worried this might drag out a little too long. We'll get the latest on that.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Also from your new state, New Jersey, the controversy surrounding New Jersey Governor Jim McGreevey continues today. There are a number of critics, more vocal by the day, calling for him to step aside now instead of mid-November. At least one of our political gurus thinks McGreevey should be fighting back. Kamber and May tackle that topic in a moment this morning.
COLLINS: Should be very interesting.
Plus, Dr. Sanjay Gupta stops by with some safety tips for parents. So important: How to avoid choking hazards when your kids are eating. This after a sad, sad story in New York over the weekend.
HEMMER: Sad, indeed. You're right.
COLLINS: First of all, let's start in Iraq this half hour. Government officials there are threatening a major military assault to clear rebels from that mosque -- the Imam Ali Mosque in Najaf.
Radical Shiite leader Muqtada al-Sadr and his Mehdi Army have been holed up near the shrine, some inside the shrine while fighting U.S. troops and Iraqi forces in the town of Najaf. If a major battle for the mosque is imminent, American forces will find themselves walking a very fine line.
Barbara Starr is watching this story at the Pentagon. Good morning there.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill.
Well, just for now, though, Muqtada al-Sadr appears to be hanging on to power.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): As fighting continues in Najaf, Iraqi security forces are caught between the interim government and fighters loyal to cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. The local police chief's family attacked. CHIEF GHALIB Al-JAZZARI, NAJAF POLICE (through translator): Yes, they kidnapped my father who is old, sick, handicapped, and struggling in his death bed. They attacked my sisters and beat them until they lost consciousness.
STARR: U.S. forces have stayed out of the Imam Ali Mosque, one of the most holy sites for Shia Muslims, but they are fighting nearby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can hear that there's some resistance. But obviously, right here, everything's pretty quiet.
STARR: Senior U.S. defense officials tell CNN, Iraqi Interim President Ayad Allawi is now sending more Iraqi security forces to the area to try and end the fighting. But so far, negotiations with al- Sadr have failed.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld making it clear on a trip to Russia that the U.S. still hopes Iraqis will find a solution.
DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: They certainly understand that it's important that they not allow independent militias to kill innocent men, women, and children in that country.
How they go about that on any particular moment of the day is for them to decide.
STARR: Hidden behind Rumsfeld's remarks, intense frustration. Top officials had warned for months the situation in the south could not be allowed to drag on as it did in Fallujah earlier this year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): But Bill, behind the scenes, Pentagon officials this morning are saying that it is increasingly likely there will, indeed, be a military offensive in Najaf and that U.S. ground troops will likely play a significant role -- Bill?
HEMMER: Barbara, don't know the answer to this question. There was a report a few days ago that said only 25 fighters were inside that mosque. Is that accurate, and does the U.S. or the Iraqi officials know how many might be inside at this point?
STARR: At this point, it's not very clear that they do know exactly how many are inside the mosque itself. Of course, there's that large cemetery right next to it, and by all accounts, insurgents have taken up positions in that cemetery. That's what led to the bombing of the cemetery yesterday.
Currently, the plan, Bill, is that U.S. forces would certainly not enter the mosque, but top officials say that if they start getting attacked from positions inside the mosque, U.S. forces would take action to defend themselves, if it comes to that. It will be a very difficult messy situation -- Bill.
HEMMER: Oftentimes that story is changing by the hour at this point, too. Barbara, thanks, at the Pentagon -- Heidi? COLLINS: When should New Jersey's governor get out? We'll discuss that right now with two political experts who luckily, for us, agree to disagree.
In Washington this morning, Democratic strategist Victor Kamber of The Kamber Group. Vic, hello to you.
VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, THE KAMBER GROUP: Good morning.
COLLINS: And Cliff May, former RNC Communications Director, now with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. Cliff, hello to you, as well.
CLIFF MAY, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: Good morning, Heidi.
COLLINS: Welcome to you both.
Bottom line, Cliff, let's start with you. Should Governor McGreevey resign effective immediately?
MAY: Well, if he did nothing wrong, then he -- if he's being victimized only because he's gay, he should fight for his job and I would support him in that. But if any of the allegations are true -- allegations, for example, that he put somebody on the payroll with a six-figure salary who had no qualifications, allegations that he sexually harassed that person, other allegations of corruption -- he should be out as soon as possible. That's clear.
COLLINS: Victor, your thoughts?
KAMBER: Well, I agree. If he's guilty of improprieties in terms of criminal activities, he should be out. The bottom line: The appointment of somebody unqualified for the job, we've known that three years ago, and I didn't hear any outcry for his resignation then. And he's no different than a number of politicians who put people in office for their own personal reasons, whether it be sexual or financial reasons.
They appoint people to offices. Let's look at the cabinet of President Bush. Let's look at the ambassadors. They're all pioneers who have given hundreds of thousands of dollars for President Bush. I'm not putting this in the same category, but I am saying politicians use appointment processes for their own reasons.
And one other -- and one other...
MAY: Not for the objects of their affection, Victor.
KAMBER: Well, that's what I am saying, sex -- you're just putting sex at a different level than money.
MAY: Yes, I am.
KAMBER: You're making sex more -- more interesting than money... MAY: If I hired somebody because I thought they were cute in order to have a sex toy in the office, my board of directors would grumble a little bit.
KAMBER: But if you hired somebody who could -- who could give you some financial gains and had no qualifications but could just put money in the treasury, that's OK. I'm sorry, they're both equally stupid reasons.
But let me say one other -- let me say one other...
MAY: Businesses are about making money, not scoring.
KAMBER: .... one other thing: All these people claiming for democracy here, let's get them out of office for democracy, you're going to have a small room of five or six people on both sides of the party, they're going to choose the nominee.
The people of New Jersey will not get to choose their nominee to run for office, and the only people clamoring for an election right now are people who, again, have personal gain. They either don't like the incoming governor, they have contracts that they are afraid they're going to lose if certain people win, or they think they have aspirations to run themselves.
COLLINS: Cliff, last word on this.
MAY: If he did something wrong, he should be out of office. If he didn't do anything wrong, he should keep his job.
COLLINS: All right, let's move on then to the 9/11 Commission. As you guys know, by the end of the week now, Congress will finish 20 hearings on the 9/11 Commission's final report.
Are they getting anywhere here? Cliff, go ahead.
MAY: Well, look, I think it's important to have a serious discussion of this, and it's long overdue. A lot of the problems we have in the intelligence community today are, frankly, the fault of Congress, which has the job to oversee in the intelligence community and has hobbled and handcuffed the intelligence community for many, many years.
But let's understand this: The main thing that's wrong with the intelligence community, according to the 9/11 Commission, is a lack of intelligence. How do you re-create a bureaucracy to have more intelligence? It's not simply rearranging the box on an organizational chart. It's not simply moving money from one pocket to another.
Frankly, I wish we had somebody like Bill Gates looking at the bureaucracy, looking at the organization saying how do we give people enough imagination to understand that if terrorists have attacked us with truck bombs and with boat bombs, maybe they are going to do it with airplane bombs, as well.
COLLINS: Victor, this process takes quite a while, doesn't it?
KAMBER: Well, it shouldn't take quite a while. I mean, this again -- it's ironic. We had a conversation about how quickly we should throw a governor out of office for having sex, and we can't have a quick process, or a relatively quick process, to deal with 9/11 after hearings after hearings after hearings.
It's a show right now. That's all that's going on. These Congressmen and Senators that are having hearings are doing it because it's an election year. If there was a serious intent by Congress to take action, they'd be back in session right now. The Speaker of the House would have called them back in to session, the president would have demanded they come back to Washington in August and deal with this.
And the fact that there are committees that have to deal with it, the others could sit and listen to those committees. I don't disagree with Cliff that we need discussion, that we need a thorough investigation, that we need more understanding, but that doesn't happen while they're on vacation out in the hinterlands campaigning for offices.
It happens here in Washington now.
COLLINS: Gentlemen -- gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it there. My apologies, but I certainly appreciate you being with us, and nice to see the both of you this morning.
Vic Kamber and Clifford May. Thanks again, guys.
MAY: Thanks, Heidi.
COLLINS: We also want to mention a CNN live town hall meeting tonight. Paula Zahn will be talking to undecided voters in the battleground state of Ohio. Again, coming your way 8:00 p.m. Eastern tonight.
HEMMER: Twenty-one minutes now before the hour. Back to Carol Costello. Developing story in the Midwest. Good morning, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Strange story, Bill. In Indiana, the Ft. Wayne Airport closed this morning after a hazardous material spilled from a bag. The baggage was apparently being unloaded from an American Eagle flight from Chicago. An airport official says it belongs to a person from Beirut Lebanon who was not on the flight. At least one airport worker is sick as a result; six others undergoing decontamination.
Sanibel Island, a popular tourist destination in Florida, is open again today in the aftermath of Hurricane Charley. These images just in to CNN in the past half hour. Charlotte County was among the hardest hit areas in Florida last week. But its 6,000 residents are now going back. We'll have a live report from Bob Franken in the next half hour of AMERICAN MORNING.
Amazing images from flash flooding in southwestern England. Take a look at this. Emergency workers there have launched one of their biggest operations in years, to rescue people whose homes and cars were swept up in the flood. More than a dozen people are missing.
And talk show host Oprah Winfrey is expected back in court today. The billionaire celebrity, along with 11 other jurors, begins her third day of service as testimony continues in a Chicago murder trial. Winfrey was chosen for jury duty on Monday.
Back to you, Bill.
HEMMER: All right, Carol, watching that flooding video is just absolutely unbelievable, a car that weighs a ton literally floating on that river as it goes down through that town.
COSTELLO: And more than one car.
HEMMER: Yes, indeed, you are right, exactly.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: Want to go overseas right now. Security at the Olympics in Athens, Greece, smooth to this point. Let's talk about that, among other things, with the mayor of Athens, Greece. Dora Bakoyannis is my guest now.
And great to have you here. And good morning, or good afternoon to you, standing in the Acropolis.
MYR. DORA BAKOYANNIS, ATHENS, GREECE: Good morning.
HEMMER: One thing I'm quite curious about, watching these events back here stateside, a number of these venues in stadiums have empty seat. What explains that?
BAKOYANNIS: Well, very few had empty seats. And one of the reasons is that by the organizing committee, they were sold out. So we had some problems with the people who had bought the tickets weeks ago.
But today, the excitement is also growing in Greece, and the ticket sales is going well. So I hope that they will be full in the days to come.
HEMMER: Madame Mayor, don't want to disagree with you too quickly here, but I was watching the women's soccer yesterday, the U.S. against Australia. I counted literally 16 people in the entire stadium. You still stand by that stadium?
BAKOYANNIS: I don't think there were 16 people, because only the volunteers were much more than that. But the women's soccer game is still an unknown sport in Greece. So we were very glad that the television showed it, and that I hope that the Greeks will also learn that even women can play soccer.
HEMMER: To another point then -- do you make money on this or do you lose money? BAKOYANNIS: It's too early to say. I don't know. It's too early to have the real balance, economic balance, for the Games. What we already know is that the infrastructure, which we have gotten in Athens, is a great legacy for the city. We have a completely new transportation system.
You see behind me there is an absolutely clean air in Athens, and the whole city has been lifted. So practically, this is a great legacy for tourism (INAUDIBLE) and for investments.
HEMMER: For your money at this point, is that the best storyline from the Games in Athens?
BAKOYANNIS: For the city of Athens? Yes, it's the best story.
HEMMER: Well, here's a story we kind of got a kick out of today. I don't know if we can call it up here. This guy in a tutu climbed on board of a diving board yesterday and went in the water. A bit of a chuckle here, but this is clearly a security breach. Do you have much to say as to why this happened?
BAKOYANNIS: I don't know how this happened. And you can always have some people trying to put up extraordinary stories. But I think by all the experts who are here in Athens, and believe me, there are many, of a security system is working very well.
As you know, we were obliged because we were the first Olympics after September 11th to pay a lot of money. We paid more than one billion, 200 million dollars for the security. We have 75,000 people well trained on the road, and the experts who came over from all around the world -- the United States, Israel, Britain, et cetera, they are all quite happy with the security environment we've procured.
HEMMER: Well listen, best of luck to you. Best of luck to you. About six days down, about eight more to go, eight or nine by the calendar now...
BAKOYANNIS: Thank you, and come to Athens.
HEMMER: I wish I could, actually.
Send an e-mail to the bosses.
Dora Bakoyannis, the mayor of Athens, Greece. And best of luck to you as the Games continues there.
COLLINS: Always a beautiful shot, that is for sure.
HEMMER: Oh, my. Yes.
COLLINS: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING now, how parents can avoid making a deadly mistake.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to talk about it in a moment.
HEMMER: Also, in a moment here, Christine is back working for Andy again today, calling Halliburton the teflon company. For what reason there, we'll explain with Christine in a moment here.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We're paging Dr. Gupta this morning about foods that present a choking hazard for children. The story of a 3-year-old boy who choked to death last weekend while eating popcorn at the movies is a tragic reminder that kids are especially vulnerable.
Dr. Sanjay joins us now with more on choking hazards, and certainly how to avoid them.
What an awful story.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It really is. I mean, it's just terrible, any way you look at it. Not an uncommon story, though, unfortunately, as well.
About 17,000 children or so a year go to the hospital for checking episodes. About 150 of them die. That's a large number if you think about it really. There are foods that are particularly vulnerable, foods that are going to be particularly problematic for children, especially small children.
Sometimes these foods surprise you, Heidi. You and I were talking about this. Popcorn, obviously, on the list as it was in this particular case, but also foods like hot dogs, for example. These foods tend to, when they hit the moisture of your mouth, they tend to swell in size a little bit, possibly closing off your airway.
Also hard foods -- these peanuts are more obvious ones -- peanuts, candy, cheese, foods like that. And foods that are just large -- grapes, cherries, raisins, all those sorts of food. Try and cut those foods up. You know this. You're a mother. Cut those foods up, especially the large chunks. Don't let your children run around, jump around while they're eating. That can change the way they swallow as well.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, I remember when he was graduating from the baby foods into the solid food items, and it's just plain scary. I mean, you feed them and then you watch, and it's hard. But what's different about their physiology. Is there anything different that makes them more susceptible to choking?
GUPTA: Well, I think one thing is that they're just smaller, and may sound like an obvious answer. But they're smaller. A good rule of thumb, basically, is that the size of their windpipe is going to be about the size of their pinky finger. That's pretty small.
So, if you're thinking about food size, pinky finger size is going to be pretty small. But also the way that they coordinate their swallowing. What happens when you choke is instead of the food going down the esophagus, it gets close to your trachea, your windpipe, blocks it off. Another good rule of thumb, Heidi, is if your child is not coughing or not speaking, that mean they're choking. If they're coughing or speaking, making noise, they're not actually choking. Let them try and get the food out on their own. That's going to be your best bet.
COLLINS: It's making my heart race right now. Even if you know the Heimlich Maneuver, though, and hopefully everybody does, but when the children are so small, there's still a way you can use that, right, it's just a different version.
GUPTA: Absolutely, and a very good point. I think we have a little picture of what that looks like. It's different for children than it is with adults. With the kid, you are actually doing black blows there. See how the kid is actually first face down and then face up. Then you do the chest thrust. The goal is to try to increase the pressure inside the chest and abdominal cavity to try and expel that piece of food. The children first back thrust like that. That's what typically is going to work.
The good news is, that it does work most of the time if the child is actually choking and if you perform the Heimlich Maneuver quickly. By the way, we're talking about five minutes or so of choking. That's when you get in your really -- a child may lapse into unconsciousness and subsequently die.
COLLINS: And you've got to stay calm to perform that, that's for sure.
GUPTA: You do, think quickly. Get the classes. That's always a good idea. Know this; if you have small children, learn that maneuver.
COLLINS: Of course. All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much.
GUPTA: Thank you.
COLLINS: Still to come now this morning, is the Army about to crackdown on Halliburton? That's next in business, right here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right. Welcome back, everyone. And to Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Is the U.S. Army finally cracking down on Halliburton? They initially talked of withholding some money, but things change. Christine Romans in for Andy Serwer, "Minding Your Business."
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If the Pentagon withholds 15 percent of its payments to Halliburton, it would be about $60 million a month, and that sent the stock down sharply yesterday. And then the government came back and said, maybe we won't, maybe we're going to spend a few more days sort of investigating this, and the stock recovered a little bit.
So trying to figure out what to do next. What we do know is that a little bit more time is needed. Halliburton and the Army in this big dispute over whether Halliburton overcharged for meals, oil and services in the Iraq war. It's a $6 billion contract; $2.5 billion to rebuild the oil industry.
Halliburton has this humongous contract. There are worries that the bills were padded, at best. At worst, it was sloppy bookkeeping, and the government says, you know, auditors for the government say $1.8 billion in overcharges potentially.
CAFFERTY: I mean, do you think that a large corporation that was offered a no-bid government contract could ever overcharge? I find that shocking. I don't think that possibly could ever happen, do you?
ROMANS: Well, who knows. But listen, at this point, it's still a dispute between the Army and Halliburton that goes on and on and on. And Halliburton says that if 15 percent is held back, then it will hold back from its subcontractors as well.
CAFFERTY: Bet on Halliburton. If you're a bookmaker you bet on Halliburton as the favorite in this one. What do you markets look like this morning?
ROMANS: The markets look a little soft this morning. A couple of reasons. You got oil prices at another record. Knocking on the door of $47 a barrel. Dow up yesterday 18 points, but it looks like it could be a little soft. Futures are pointing a little bit lower.
CAFFERTY: Thanks, Christine.
ROMANS: You're welcome.
CAFFERTY: In a moment here, people chased from their homes by Charlie last Friday now getting their first look at damage this morning. We will go their live in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired August 18, 2004 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Just about half past the hour now on this AMERICAN MORNING. The standoff in Najaf could be coming to a head. One Iraqi official has issued somewhat of an ultimatum. In a moment, we'll go live to the Pentagon. Seems U.S. officials were worried this might drag out a little too long. We'll get the latest on that.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Also from your new state, New Jersey, the controversy surrounding New Jersey Governor Jim McGreevey continues today. There are a number of critics, more vocal by the day, calling for him to step aside now instead of mid-November. At least one of our political gurus thinks McGreevey should be fighting back. Kamber and May tackle that topic in a moment this morning.
COLLINS: Should be very interesting.
Plus, Dr. Sanjay Gupta stops by with some safety tips for parents. So important: How to avoid choking hazards when your kids are eating. This after a sad, sad story in New York over the weekend.
HEMMER: Sad, indeed. You're right.
COLLINS: First of all, let's start in Iraq this half hour. Government officials there are threatening a major military assault to clear rebels from that mosque -- the Imam Ali Mosque in Najaf.
Radical Shiite leader Muqtada al-Sadr and his Mehdi Army have been holed up near the shrine, some inside the shrine while fighting U.S. troops and Iraqi forces in the town of Najaf. If a major battle for the mosque is imminent, American forces will find themselves walking a very fine line.
Barbara Starr is watching this story at the Pentagon. Good morning there.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill.
Well, just for now, though, Muqtada al-Sadr appears to be hanging on to power.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): As fighting continues in Najaf, Iraqi security forces are caught between the interim government and fighters loyal to cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. The local police chief's family attacked. CHIEF GHALIB Al-JAZZARI, NAJAF POLICE (through translator): Yes, they kidnapped my father who is old, sick, handicapped, and struggling in his death bed. They attacked my sisters and beat them until they lost consciousness.
STARR: U.S. forces have stayed out of the Imam Ali Mosque, one of the most holy sites for Shia Muslims, but they are fighting nearby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can hear that there's some resistance. But obviously, right here, everything's pretty quiet.
STARR: Senior U.S. defense officials tell CNN, Iraqi Interim President Ayad Allawi is now sending more Iraqi security forces to the area to try and end the fighting. But so far, negotiations with al- Sadr have failed.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld making it clear on a trip to Russia that the U.S. still hopes Iraqis will find a solution.
DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: They certainly understand that it's important that they not allow independent militias to kill innocent men, women, and children in that country.
How they go about that on any particular moment of the day is for them to decide.
STARR: Hidden behind Rumsfeld's remarks, intense frustration. Top officials had warned for months the situation in the south could not be allowed to drag on as it did in Fallujah earlier this year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): But Bill, behind the scenes, Pentagon officials this morning are saying that it is increasingly likely there will, indeed, be a military offensive in Najaf and that U.S. ground troops will likely play a significant role -- Bill?
HEMMER: Barbara, don't know the answer to this question. There was a report a few days ago that said only 25 fighters were inside that mosque. Is that accurate, and does the U.S. or the Iraqi officials know how many might be inside at this point?
STARR: At this point, it's not very clear that they do know exactly how many are inside the mosque itself. Of course, there's that large cemetery right next to it, and by all accounts, insurgents have taken up positions in that cemetery. That's what led to the bombing of the cemetery yesterday.
Currently, the plan, Bill, is that U.S. forces would certainly not enter the mosque, but top officials say that if they start getting attacked from positions inside the mosque, U.S. forces would take action to defend themselves, if it comes to that. It will be a very difficult messy situation -- Bill.
HEMMER: Oftentimes that story is changing by the hour at this point, too. Barbara, thanks, at the Pentagon -- Heidi? COLLINS: When should New Jersey's governor get out? We'll discuss that right now with two political experts who luckily, for us, agree to disagree.
In Washington this morning, Democratic strategist Victor Kamber of The Kamber Group. Vic, hello to you.
VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, THE KAMBER GROUP: Good morning.
COLLINS: And Cliff May, former RNC Communications Director, now with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. Cliff, hello to you, as well.
CLIFF MAY, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: Good morning, Heidi.
COLLINS: Welcome to you both.
Bottom line, Cliff, let's start with you. Should Governor McGreevey resign effective immediately?
MAY: Well, if he did nothing wrong, then he -- if he's being victimized only because he's gay, he should fight for his job and I would support him in that. But if any of the allegations are true -- allegations, for example, that he put somebody on the payroll with a six-figure salary who had no qualifications, allegations that he sexually harassed that person, other allegations of corruption -- he should be out as soon as possible. That's clear.
COLLINS: Victor, your thoughts?
KAMBER: Well, I agree. If he's guilty of improprieties in terms of criminal activities, he should be out. The bottom line: The appointment of somebody unqualified for the job, we've known that three years ago, and I didn't hear any outcry for his resignation then. And he's no different than a number of politicians who put people in office for their own personal reasons, whether it be sexual or financial reasons.
They appoint people to offices. Let's look at the cabinet of President Bush. Let's look at the ambassadors. They're all pioneers who have given hundreds of thousands of dollars for President Bush. I'm not putting this in the same category, but I am saying politicians use appointment processes for their own reasons.
And one other -- and one other...
MAY: Not for the objects of their affection, Victor.
KAMBER: Well, that's what I am saying, sex -- you're just putting sex at a different level than money.
MAY: Yes, I am.
KAMBER: You're making sex more -- more interesting than money... MAY: If I hired somebody because I thought they were cute in order to have a sex toy in the office, my board of directors would grumble a little bit.
KAMBER: But if you hired somebody who could -- who could give you some financial gains and had no qualifications but could just put money in the treasury, that's OK. I'm sorry, they're both equally stupid reasons.
But let me say one other -- let me say one other...
MAY: Businesses are about making money, not scoring.
KAMBER: .... one other thing: All these people claiming for democracy here, let's get them out of office for democracy, you're going to have a small room of five or six people on both sides of the party, they're going to choose the nominee.
The people of New Jersey will not get to choose their nominee to run for office, and the only people clamoring for an election right now are people who, again, have personal gain. They either don't like the incoming governor, they have contracts that they are afraid they're going to lose if certain people win, or they think they have aspirations to run themselves.
COLLINS: Cliff, last word on this.
MAY: If he did something wrong, he should be out of office. If he didn't do anything wrong, he should keep his job.
COLLINS: All right, let's move on then to the 9/11 Commission. As you guys know, by the end of the week now, Congress will finish 20 hearings on the 9/11 Commission's final report.
Are they getting anywhere here? Cliff, go ahead.
MAY: Well, look, I think it's important to have a serious discussion of this, and it's long overdue. A lot of the problems we have in the intelligence community today are, frankly, the fault of Congress, which has the job to oversee in the intelligence community and has hobbled and handcuffed the intelligence community for many, many years.
But let's understand this: The main thing that's wrong with the intelligence community, according to the 9/11 Commission, is a lack of intelligence. How do you re-create a bureaucracy to have more intelligence? It's not simply rearranging the box on an organizational chart. It's not simply moving money from one pocket to another.
Frankly, I wish we had somebody like Bill Gates looking at the bureaucracy, looking at the organization saying how do we give people enough imagination to understand that if terrorists have attacked us with truck bombs and with boat bombs, maybe they are going to do it with airplane bombs, as well.
COLLINS: Victor, this process takes quite a while, doesn't it?
KAMBER: Well, it shouldn't take quite a while. I mean, this again -- it's ironic. We had a conversation about how quickly we should throw a governor out of office for having sex, and we can't have a quick process, or a relatively quick process, to deal with 9/11 after hearings after hearings after hearings.
It's a show right now. That's all that's going on. These Congressmen and Senators that are having hearings are doing it because it's an election year. If there was a serious intent by Congress to take action, they'd be back in session right now. The Speaker of the House would have called them back in to session, the president would have demanded they come back to Washington in August and deal with this.
And the fact that there are committees that have to deal with it, the others could sit and listen to those committees. I don't disagree with Cliff that we need discussion, that we need a thorough investigation, that we need more understanding, but that doesn't happen while they're on vacation out in the hinterlands campaigning for offices.
It happens here in Washington now.
COLLINS: Gentlemen -- gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it there. My apologies, but I certainly appreciate you being with us, and nice to see the both of you this morning.
Vic Kamber and Clifford May. Thanks again, guys.
MAY: Thanks, Heidi.
COLLINS: We also want to mention a CNN live town hall meeting tonight. Paula Zahn will be talking to undecided voters in the battleground state of Ohio. Again, coming your way 8:00 p.m. Eastern tonight.
HEMMER: Twenty-one minutes now before the hour. Back to Carol Costello. Developing story in the Midwest. Good morning, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Strange story, Bill. In Indiana, the Ft. Wayne Airport closed this morning after a hazardous material spilled from a bag. The baggage was apparently being unloaded from an American Eagle flight from Chicago. An airport official says it belongs to a person from Beirut Lebanon who was not on the flight. At least one airport worker is sick as a result; six others undergoing decontamination.
Sanibel Island, a popular tourist destination in Florida, is open again today in the aftermath of Hurricane Charley. These images just in to CNN in the past half hour. Charlotte County was among the hardest hit areas in Florida last week. But its 6,000 residents are now going back. We'll have a live report from Bob Franken in the next half hour of AMERICAN MORNING.
Amazing images from flash flooding in southwestern England. Take a look at this. Emergency workers there have launched one of their biggest operations in years, to rescue people whose homes and cars were swept up in the flood. More than a dozen people are missing.
And talk show host Oprah Winfrey is expected back in court today. The billionaire celebrity, along with 11 other jurors, begins her third day of service as testimony continues in a Chicago murder trial. Winfrey was chosen for jury duty on Monday.
Back to you, Bill.
HEMMER: All right, Carol, watching that flooding video is just absolutely unbelievable, a car that weighs a ton literally floating on that river as it goes down through that town.
COSTELLO: And more than one car.
HEMMER: Yes, indeed, you are right, exactly.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: Want to go overseas right now. Security at the Olympics in Athens, Greece, smooth to this point. Let's talk about that, among other things, with the mayor of Athens, Greece. Dora Bakoyannis is my guest now.
And great to have you here. And good morning, or good afternoon to you, standing in the Acropolis.
MYR. DORA BAKOYANNIS, ATHENS, GREECE: Good morning.
HEMMER: One thing I'm quite curious about, watching these events back here stateside, a number of these venues in stadiums have empty seat. What explains that?
BAKOYANNIS: Well, very few had empty seats. And one of the reasons is that by the organizing committee, they were sold out. So we had some problems with the people who had bought the tickets weeks ago.
But today, the excitement is also growing in Greece, and the ticket sales is going well. So I hope that they will be full in the days to come.
HEMMER: Madame Mayor, don't want to disagree with you too quickly here, but I was watching the women's soccer yesterday, the U.S. against Australia. I counted literally 16 people in the entire stadium. You still stand by that stadium?
BAKOYANNIS: I don't think there were 16 people, because only the volunteers were much more than that. But the women's soccer game is still an unknown sport in Greece. So we were very glad that the television showed it, and that I hope that the Greeks will also learn that even women can play soccer.
HEMMER: To another point then -- do you make money on this or do you lose money? BAKOYANNIS: It's too early to say. I don't know. It's too early to have the real balance, economic balance, for the Games. What we already know is that the infrastructure, which we have gotten in Athens, is a great legacy for the city. We have a completely new transportation system.
You see behind me there is an absolutely clean air in Athens, and the whole city has been lifted. So practically, this is a great legacy for tourism (INAUDIBLE) and for investments.
HEMMER: For your money at this point, is that the best storyline from the Games in Athens?
BAKOYANNIS: For the city of Athens? Yes, it's the best story.
HEMMER: Well, here's a story we kind of got a kick out of today. I don't know if we can call it up here. This guy in a tutu climbed on board of a diving board yesterday and went in the water. A bit of a chuckle here, but this is clearly a security breach. Do you have much to say as to why this happened?
BAKOYANNIS: I don't know how this happened. And you can always have some people trying to put up extraordinary stories. But I think by all the experts who are here in Athens, and believe me, there are many, of a security system is working very well.
As you know, we were obliged because we were the first Olympics after September 11th to pay a lot of money. We paid more than one billion, 200 million dollars for the security. We have 75,000 people well trained on the road, and the experts who came over from all around the world -- the United States, Israel, Britain, et cetera, they are all quite happy with the security environment we've procured.
HEMMER: Well listen, best of luck to you. Best of luck to you. About six days down, about eight more to go, eight or nine by the calendar now...
BAKOYANNIS: Thank you, and come to Athens.
HEMMER: I wish I could, actually.
Send an e-mail to the bosses.
Dora Bakoyannis, the mayor of Athens, Greece. And best of luck to you as the Games continues there.
COLLINS: Always a beautiful shot, that is for sure.
HEMMER: Oh, my. Yes.
COLLINS: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING now, how parents can avoid making a deadly mistake.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to talk about it in a moment.
HEMMER: Also, in a moment here, Christine is back working for Andy again today, calling Halliburton the teflon company. For what reason there, we'll explain with Christine in a moment here.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: We're paging Dr. Gupta this morning about foods that present a choking hazard for children. The story of a 3-year-old boy who choked to death last weekend while eating popcorn at the movies is a tragic reminder that kids are especially vulnerable.
Dr. Sanjay joins us now with more on choking hazards, and certainly how to avoid them.
What an awful story.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It really is. I mean, it's just terrible, any way you look at it. Not an uncommon story, though, unfortunately, as well.
About 17,000 children or so a year go to the hospital for checking episodes. About 150 of them die. That's a large number if you think about it really. There are foods that are particularly vulnerable, foods that are going to be particularly problematic for children, especially small children.
Sometimes these foods surprise you, Heidi. You and I were talking about this. Popcorn, obviously, on the list as it was in this particular case, but also foods like hot dogs, for example. These foods tend to, when they hit the moisture of your mouth, they tend to swell in size a little bit, possibly closing off your airway.
Also hard foods -- these peanuts are more obvious ones -- peanuts, candy, cheese, foods like that. And foods that are just large -- grapes, cherries, raisins, all those sorts of food. Try and cut those foods up. You know this. You're a mother. Cut those foods up, especially the large chunks. Don't let your children run around, jump around while they're eating. That can change the way they swallow as well.
COLLINS: Yes, I mean, I remember when he was graduating from the baby foods into the solid food items, and it's just plain scary. I mean, you feed them and then you watch, and it's hard. But what's different about their physiology. Is there anything different that makes them more susceptible to choking?
GUPTA: Well, I think one thing is that they're just smaller, and may sound like an obvious answer. But they're smaller. A good rule of thumb, basically, is that the size of their windpipe is going to be about the size of their pinky finger. That's pretty small.
So, if you're thinking about food size, pinky finger size is going to be pretty small. But also the way that they coordinate their swallowing. What happens when you choke is instead of the food going down the esophagus, it gets close to your trachea, your windpipe, blocks it off. Another good rule of thumb, Heidi, is if your child is not coughing or not speaking, that mean they're choking. If they're coughing or speaking, making noise, they're not actually choking. Let them try and get the food out on their own. That's going to be your best bet.
COLLINS: It's making my heart race right now. Even if you know the Heimlich Maneuver, though, and hopefully everybody does, but when the children are so small, there's still a way you can use that, right, it's just a different version.
GUPTA: Absolutely, and a very good point. I think we have a little picture of what that looks like. It's different for children than it is with adults. With the kid, you are actually doing black blows there. See how the kid is actually first face down and then face up. Then you do the chest thrust. The goal is to try to increase the pressure inside the chest and abdominal cavity to try and expel that piece of food. The children first back thrust like that. That's what typically is going to work.
The good news is, that it does work most of the time if the child is actually choking and if you perform the Heimlich Maneuver quickly. By the way, we're talking about five minutes or so of choking. That's when you get in your really -- a child may lapse into unconsciousness and subsequently die.
COLLINS: And you've got to stay calm to perform that, that's for sure.
GUPTA: You do, think quickly. Get the classes. That's always a good idea. Know this; if you have small children, learn that maneuver.
COLLINS: Of course. All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much.
GUPTA: Thank you.
COLLINS: Still to come now this morning, is the Army about to crackdown on Halliburton? That's next in business, right here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right. Welcome back, everyone. And to Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Is the U.S. Army finally cracking down on Halliburton? They initially talked of withholding some money, but things change. Christine Romans in for Andy Serwer, "Minding Your Business."
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If the Pentagon withholds 15 percent of its payments to Halliburton, it would be about $60 million a month, and that sent the stock down sharply yesterday. And then the government came back and said, maybe we won't, maybe we're going to spend a few more days sort of investigating this, and the stock recovered a little bit.
So trying to figure out what to do next. What we do know is that a little bit more time is needed. Halliburton and the Army in this big dispute over whether Halliburton overcharged for meals, oil and services in the Iraq war. It's a $6 billion contract; $2.5 billion to rebuild the oil industry.
Halliburton has this humongous contract. There are worries that the bills were padded, at best. At worst, it was sloppy bookkeeping, and the government says, you know, auditors for the government say $1.8 billion in overcharges potentially.
CAFFERTY: I mean, do you think that a large corporation that was offered a no-bid government contract could ever overcharge? I find that shocking. I don't think that possibly could ever happen, do you?
ROMANS: Well, who knows. But listen, at this point, it's still a dispute between the Army and Halliburton that goes on and on and on. And Halliburton says that if 15 percent is held back, then it will hold back from its subcontractors as well.
CAFFERTY: Bet on Halliburton. If you're a bookmaker you bet on Halliburton as the favorite in this one. What do you markets look like this morning?
ROMANS: The markets look a little soft this morning. A couple of reasons. You got oil prices at another record. Knocking on the door of $47 a barrel. Dow up yesterday 18 points, but it looks like it could be a little soft. Futures are pointing a little bit lower.
CAFFERTY: Thanks, Christine.
ROMANS: You're welcome.
CAFFERTY: In a moment here, people chased from their homes by Charlie last Friday now getting their first look at damage this morning. We will go their live in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
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