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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
An inside look at Al-Sadr's Medhi Army; Interview with Gloria Allred, Amber Frey's Attorney
Aired August 19, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, HOST: Good evening from New York. I'm Heidi Collins. Anderson is off tonight.
A trip inside the war zone. Marines and insurgents fight over a mosque.
360 starts right now.
A first look inside the holy site being fought over in Najaf, and an ultimatum for the radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Iraq's prime minister issues his final call tonight.
Jackson's team puts his accuser's stepfather on the witness stand. What does he know?
An Ohio man beaten to a pulp after peeing into a girl's bedroom. The incident caught on tape.
Our special series, "Teach Your Children." Tonight, single-sex schools. Is it the best environment for your child?
Scott Peterson's former mistress faces cross-examination early next week. How is Amber Frey holding up? Her attorney, Gloria Allred, joins me live.
And this week's 360 overkill. You be the judge. Paris Hilton's chihuahua, or Oprah's jury duty?
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
COLLINS: We begin in Najaf, where U.S. aircraft and tanks have been pounding positions held by the Medhi militia, after Muqtada al- Sadr defied what the Iraqi government said was its final call for him to surrender.
CNN's Matthew Chance is in Najaf and joins us now by videophone. Matthew, hello.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Heidi, thank you.
And fierce fighting on the streets of Najaf as U.S. tanks and helicopter gunships pound positions of the Medhi Army, loyal, of course, to the radical Shi'a cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Much of the fighting taking place around the sacred Imam Ali Mosque, one of the holiest shrines in Shi'a Islam, in the center of this battle.
CNN has been granted exclusive access to the Imam Ali Mosque, where the Mehdi Army are holed up inside, using it as a ground to lunch attacks against U.S. forces.
The video shows Mehdi Army fighters jubilant in their resistance, they say, to U.S. forces, vowing to stay on until the death, if necessary, never to abandon the mosque. The video also shows the mosque damaged in places. Two of the minarets seem to have been damaged by shrapnel fire despite efforts by the U.S. to hold their fire in the area of the mosque.
The Iraqi interim government has expressed its impatience with Muqtada al-Sadr, saying it has a last chance -- he has a last chance to abandon his position and disband his Medhi Army. Otherwise, they say, they'll consider all the military options ahead of them, Heidi.
COLLINS: Matthew Chance, thanks so much for that. We certainly appreciate you bringing us up to speed on everything in Najaf.
And earlier today, Kianne Sadeq was one of a handful of journalists permitted inside the Imam Ali Mosque for a firsthand look at the people, the conditions, and the mood.
KIANNE SADEQ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a very, very powerful day. We walked in, a group of journalists. We were allowed into the Imam Ali Mosque with the help of everyone. As soon as we walked into the mosque, we were greeted with cheers from the Medhi Army and chants. In fact, one of the oldest Mehdi Army fighters was on the shoulders of another.
They danced around, cheering, cheering, cheering. They were giving chants, chanting that they will not stand down. They will not stand down from their position, they will keep fighting to defend (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Muqtada al-Sadr.
They expressed anger towards the government, and they expressed to us that they were -- you know, they were not happy about this. But they were going to defend (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Muqtada al-Sadr. These are all from the al-Sadr movement. And they will keep defending him.
They feel like this is their duty. They feel like this is what they must do. They feel like they have been occupied, and so, to them, when they describe Americans, they call them the occupier. And they -- and this is what makes them feel, you know, stronger and stronger towards Muqtada al-Sadr, because he is always standing against the Americans. And they don't want to feel like they're occupied.
COLLINS: Again, CNN's Kianne Sadeq inside the Imam Ali Mosque.
Now to Iraq, and the Olympics. The Olympic ideal is that athletes should be able to compete without the interference of politics. Well, sometimes that ideal is tough to live up to.
The latest example today, where the U.S. presidential election and Iraqi athletes combined for a mix that was pure raw politics.
COLLINS (voice-over): They have become the dream team of this Olympics, Iraqi's soccer team, making its way to the quarterfinals, something to celebrate, even in the U.S. A reference to Iraqi athletes competing in Athens even made it to one of President Bush's latest ads, called "Victory."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, BUSH-CHENEY 2004)
ANNOUNCER: In this Olympics, there will be two more free nations and two fewer terrorist regimes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: A direct reference to the U.S. military operations that toppled the Taliban in Afghanistan and Saddam in Iraq. To the Bush- Cheney camp, this ad is a celebration of the freedom that the U.S. helped foster.
But it's infuriated some of the athletes who represent Iraq at the Olympics, who view it as a political manipulation to help President Bush's reelection bid, like Salah Savier (ph) from Najaf, a midfielder for Iraq's national team, who scored his team's only goal yesterday.
After the game, he had a message for President Bush. "Iraq as a team does not want Mr. Bush to use us for the presidential campaign," Savier told SportsIllustrated.com. "He can find another way to advertise himself."
The Iraqi soccer coach had even harsher words. He said, quote, "My problems are not with the American people, they are with what America has done in Iraq, destroy everything."
COLLINS: We contacted the Bush campaign for a reaction to this. A spokesman told us, "The ad reflects President Bush's optimism that democracy triumphs over terror, that there are two new democracies in the Olympics thanks to the coalition leadership that removed Saddam Hussein from power."
Some advisers have been urging John Kerry to fight back against a group of Vietnam vets who claim he's lying about his service record. Today, he took their advice. On the stump in Boston, he went off on Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, calling them not only liars but a smokescreen for the Bush campaign.
As Bill Schneider reports, this may be exactly what the president's campaign wants.
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): There's no shortage of issues in this campaign -- terrorism, war, jobs, healthcare, energy. So why are we stuck in a debate about something that happened more than 35 years ago?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, SWIFT BOAT VETERANS FOR TRUTH AD)
GEORGE ELLIOTT, LIEUTENANT COMMANDER, TWO BRONZE STARS: John Kerry has not been honest about what happened in Vietnam.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: Issues are not what got Kerry the Democratic nomination. Democrats saw Kerry as electable. Why? His Vietnam war record. Kerry made it the centerpiece of his campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, KERRY-EDWARDS AD)
SEN. JOHN KERRY, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I thought it was important, if you had a lot of privileges, as I had had, to go to a great university like Yale, to give something back to your country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: Now that his record is being challenged, Kerry feels he has to fight back with something more than press releases.
KERRY: If he want to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer -- bring it on!
SCHNEIDER: Brave words. But the fact is, Kerry is not likely to beat Bush on personal qualities. Polls show Bush has a clear advantage over Kerry as a strong leader who is good in a crisis, down to earth, and sticks to his positions. Kerry's personal strength, like any good Democrat, he cares about people.
When you talk about most issues, the advantage shifts to Kerry. Voters rate Kerry better on the economy, jobs, education, and healthcare. Bush's issue advantage is on terrorism. That's it.
What about Iraq? The two are rated about equal. Kerry has to get the debate off personal qualities and onto the issues. His supporters know that.
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), FORMER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Stop the Swift Boat campaign, pull it all off the air. Let's get down to the issues.
SCHNEIDER: Kerry's opponents are doing their best to make sure that doesn't happen.
Bill Schneider, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE) COLLINS: We've seen him wave, we've seen him smile, but we haven't heard Michael Jackson this week. Tonight, though, he has something to say. The judge will decide if Jackson can speak his mind in public as early as tonight.
Today, that same judge was listening to another person talk. He is the stepfather of Jackson's accuser. And from the witness stand, he had plenty to say.
CNN's Miguel Marquez has more from inside the court.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): John Doe, the stepfather of Michael Jackson's accuser, takes the stand, questioned by Jackson's lawyer about what he knew about the relationship between private investigator Brad Miller and Jackson's former lawyer, Mark Geragos.
If a relationship can be established, the defense may be able to get potentially crucial evidence tossed out.
STEVE CORBETT, "SANTA MARIA TIMES": But I don't think that they're succeeding the defense in proving that. They're not able to do that as of yet.
MARQUEZ: But John Doe's questioning did reveal his claim that someone from Neverland Ranch called the accuser's mother in the days after the documentary "Living With Michael Jackson" aired, asking that the boy and his family return to Neverland to make a rebuttal video.
Doe said he responded by saying, quote, "What are you offering?" Then, Doe said, the Neverland employee told him that they would offer security, a college education to the boy and his siblings, and a new home for the family. Doe then said he told the Neverland employee he knew Michael Jackson was going to make millions off the video and that, quote, "his small family was making zero."
CORBETT: There is this insinuation that there is a give-and- take, you know, we'll give you this in exchange for that.
MARQUEZ: In a setback for the defense, the judge ruled that Santa Barbara County Sheriff Jim Anderson could release a statement and parts of the attorney general's investigation into whether Michael Jackson was mistreated while in custody. Jackson made the claims on the CBS program "60 Minutes," but his defense lawyer said Jackson never filed an official complaint, and he was never interviewed for the investigation.
CORBETT: Mesereau (ph) stood and made a very strong argument against releasing what he called propaganda by prosecutors.
MARQUEZ: Now, this hearing is still going on. Defense lawyers are showing the judge video, video of the search of Neverland Ranch, hoping to prove that the warrants, that the search of Neverland was more broad than the warrant allowed for, hoping to get even more evidence tossed out, Heidi.
COLLINS: Miguel Marquez, live from Santa Maria, California, tonight. Miguel, thanks.
A Democrat is picked to deliver the keynote address at the Republican convention. That tops our look at news cross-country.
He's Georgia Senator Zell Miller, a Democrat in name who often sides with the GOP. Miller claims his party is wrong on taxes and military spending. Some Democrats call him a turncoat.
Capitol Hill, Senator Ted Kennedy, an airport security risk? He told a Senate hearing that he's been stopped numerous times by security screeners at Boston's Logan Airport. He has a similar name to someone on a watch list.
Lost Bluff (ph), Texas, an explosion at an underground gas storage facility sends flames shooting into the air. The cause is not known. Nobody was hurt, but nearby homes were evacuated. The gas has now been shut off, but excess fuel is still burning tonight.
New York City, Wall Street finally gives Google the long-awaited first day of trading in Google stock. Shares opened at $85 and shot up 18 percent to close at $100.33 a share.
Chicago, on the next Oprah Winfrey show, trial by jury. The talk show host apparently was so moved by her jury service in a murder trial that she's going to do a show about it next week, a reunion with fellow jurors. And, oh, yes, the defendant was convicted.
That's a look at stories cross-country tonight.
360 next, an alleged peeping Tom caught in the act, then beaten by five people. Find out why they're now in big trouble with the law.
Plus, separate, but does that mean equal? Single-sex education, find out if it's the right solution for your child, part of our special series, Teach Your Children.
And from oops to, oh, yes. America's golden gymnast proving you can battle back for Olympic glory.
But first, your picks, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.
COLLINS: We live in an age where videocameras are mounted just about everywhere you look, on the sides of buildings, for example. In Ohio, this may be an important factor in the case of an alleged peeping Tom.
CNN's Mike Brooks reports.
MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It appears to be case of vigilante street justice. Early last Saturday, police were called to an apartment complex in North Royalton, Ohio, a suburb of Cleveland.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DISPATCHER: 911, what's your emergency?
CALLER: OK, there is, I live in Bunker Ridge Apartments in (UNINTELLIGIBLE). There's a guy in the grass.
DISPATCHER: There's a guy lying in the grass?
CALLER: Yes, he's moaning, and he woke me up in the middle of the night.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BROOKS: When they arrived, they found a man, an alleged peeping Tom, lying in the grass with a bloody face, his pants around his ankles, his false teeth beside him, and part of a tree branch jammed into his rectum.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can see him go into the bushes and start peeking into the window. One of the individuals in the apartment comes out to the parking lot to the car to get a CD, turns around and sees this guy in the bushes with his pants down, and runs back in and tells everybody. That happened to be the bedroom where a 5-year-old girl was sleeping.
They were all upset, they came running out. You can see about 4:22 where they pull him out of the bushes and just start pummeling him, knees, elbows, feet, punches. This goes on for a little bit.
BROOKS: The entire incident was captured on a digital video camera belonging to the apartment complex. A detective says the tape shows the repeated beating of the man went on for more than an hour until police arrived on the scene. The officers tell CNN it was one of the worst beatings that they have ever seen.
All those involved have been charged with numerous felonies including felonious assault, rape, and complicity to commit rape. The victim remains hospitalized in fair condition with multiple injuries.
Mike Brooks, CNN, Atlanta.
COLLINS: The U.N. marks the one-year anniversary of the deadly bombing of its Baghdad office. That tops our look at global stories in the uplink.
U.N. headquarters, New York, hundreds of workers carrying signs that read, "Never again" marched in remembrance of their fallen colleagues. The attack in Baghdad killed 22 people and led to the U.N. to reduce its operations in Iraq.
Quan-Ju (ph), South Korea, a powerful typhoon causes severe flooding and forces thousands from their homes. These four people were killed. The typhoon blew in from Japan, where it left nine people dead.
Chihuahua State, Mexico, a dam, unable to stand up to heavy rains, collapses. Water and mud flood a small town. At least two people drowned. Dozens of homes were destroyed.
Paris, France, remembering the darkness of history. Parisians marked the beginning of the end of Nazi's Germany occupation. It was 60 years ago today that residents rose up against Hitler's army as French and American troops moved into the city. But it took six days of fighting before German forces surrendered.
And that's tonight's uplink.
Not even his mother thought he had a chance. That's how bad things were for gymnast Paul Hamm in Greece last night after his disastrous fall on the vault. But in one of those Olympic moments we'll remember for a long, long time to come, the freckle-faced 21- year-old stole the show, and an historic gold medal, with a nearly perfect performance on the high bar. Paul Hamm's face isn't on a Wheaties box yet, but give him time.
Here's CNN's Chris Lawrence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think they're very proud.
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Signs are springing up all over the small town of Waukesha, Wisconsin, tributes to Olympics Paul Hamm and his twin brother, Morgan. After ringing up high scores in his first three events in the all-around final, Hamm vaulted into first place. Just as quickly, his family watched him tumble all the way to 12th .
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, that was devastating.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My heart broke. I said, he's great, he did wonderful, the best he could, OK.
LAWRENCE: Even Hamm himself almost lost hope.
PAUL HAMM, GOLD MEDAL WINNER: After I had that mistake on vault, I thought for sure that I had cost myself any medal, really.
LAWRENCE: But Hamm had been tested before by years of hard work at home.
MORGAN BUTLER, FAMILY FRIEND: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) calling it the Olympic barn now.
LAWRENCE: Family friend Morgan Butler watched the twins grow up on this farm, training with whatever they could. Their dad turned a railing into parallel bars, set up a trampoline in the barn, and built a pommel horse from an old maple tree.
MORGAN HAMM, HAMM'S BUTTLER: Time-wise and money-wise and everything, it's a lot of investment for the parents. But it sure paid off.
LAWRENCE: In a way no one could have imagined. With the high bar his last hope, Hamm stuck the performance of his life, winning gold by 0.012 of a point.
PAUL HAMM: Think I probably daydreamed about winning the Olympics, you know, thousands of times. And I did not ever picture myself having a mistake and then winning.
LAWRENCE: But there's no mistaking now that this town is home to a true champion.
Chris Lawrence, CNN, Waukesha, Wisconsin.
COLLINS: See? It ain't over until it's over, right?
Now to today's buzz. It's something a little bit different tonight. This time, you get to choose what piece we run at the end of the program. So your pick. What should today's overkill story be? Oprah's jury duty, or Paris Hilton's lost dog? Which do you think the media has spent way too much time on? Log onto CNN.com/360 to vote. Then stay tuned, we'll air the story with the most votes.
360 next, boys and girls in separate classrooms. Does single-sex education help or hurt a child's chances for success? Part of our special series.
Also tonight, when your husband comes out. The struggle of wives who lose their guy to another man.
And a little later, the star witness against Scott Peterson. Will Amber Frey's testimony put him behind bars? Her lawyer, Gloria Allred, joins us live.
COLLINS: In our continuing series on education today, the pros and cons of segregation. Not segregation by race, segregation by sex. A small but growing number of public schools are providing separate education for boys and girls, claiming it's more effective than coed classes. Critics say separate cannot be equal, though.
Adaora Udoji covers the controversy in today's installment of Teach Your Children.
ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Thirteen-year-old Kristelle Pedroza lives in Dallas, loves math, and believes she'll learn well at her new all-girls public high school.
KRISTELLE PEDROZA, STUDENT: There's really no guys to distract you.
UDOJI: Supporters like her mother says that will help her focus.
AMY PEDROZA, PARENT: I hope she will accomplish things that she would not be able to accomplish in other schools.
UDOJI: Single-sex public education is rapidly growing. Eight years ago, only four out of roughly 87,000 public schools nationwide offered it. This year, it's 143.
The trend grows from several factors, namely, parent demand and President Bush's No Child Left Behind Act that provides money for what some call the most understudied issue in education. That led to a proposed expansion of Title 9, the 30-year-old federal law ensuring girls equal resources. The new rules would give public schools discretion to form single-sex alternatives.
At Albany, New York's Brighter Choice charter school, kindergartners through third graders work in one building but in separate classrooms.
CHRISTIAN BENDER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, BRIGHTER CHOICE SCHOOLS: We've learned that the boys and the girls learn differently, and it enables us to exploit those differences in how we deliver the academic program.
UDOJI: The National Organization for Women challenges that notion and voices concern.
RITA HALEY, PRESIDENT, NEW YORK CHAPTER, NOW: We believe that in -- if you allow gender-segregated schools, that females will not get the same quality education, that the better books will go to the boys, that better education, the better teachers.
UDOJI: Both sides agree, little research has been done on the benefits of single-sex education.
But Kristelle has no doubt it will work for her.
Adaora Udoji, CNN, New York.
COLLINS: Earlier, I talked with Dr. Leonard Sax, who's the executive director of the National Association for Single-sex Public Education, and David Sadker, a professor of education at American University and co-author of "Failing at Fairness: How Our Schools Cheat Girls.
Dr. Sax, I'd like to begin with you. Why do you believe that public single-sex schools are a good idea?
DR. LEONARD SAX, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR SINGLE-SEX EDUCATION: Girls and boys learn differently. And the main reason for that is that girls and boys differ from birth in how they hear, how they see. When you're in the classroom with that child when they're 5, 6, 7 years old, the boy will learn better if you speak more loudly, and the girl doesn't need that.
We've seen from the research that single-sex schools broaden educational opportunities. Girls who go to girls' schools are much more likely, for example, to study subjects like computer science and physics. Boys who go to boys' schools are more than twice as likely to study subjects like arts, music, foreign languages...
COLLINS: Professor Sadker, do you agree with any of those possibilities?
DAVID SADKER, PROFESSOR OF EDUCATION, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: Not all boys are the same. Not all girls are the same. I think we ought to look at kids as individuals rather than as group affiliations.
COLLINS: Yes, but what (UNINTELLIGIBLE) existing school takes that much attention and can really focus in on one individual? I mean, we talk about student-teacher ratios all the time.
SADKER: Maybe those are the things we should be focusing on instead of separating and assuming that all boys will be taught the same way and all girls the same way. You know, if we were dealing with a study to look at what works in single-sex and what doesn't, and how we could move that information to coed schools, I'd be all for it. But just giving a green light to schools to start up single-sex classes, that can lead to real problems.
COLLINS: All right, Dr. Sax, what about the downside? I mean, there are groups like the ACLU and the National Organization for Women who say this isn't realistic. I mean, you put boys in a classroom, and you put girls in a classroom. Do we go back to the days where girls get less and boys get more? Talking specifically about Title 9 here.
SAX: Our association really supports Title 9, and we embrace Title 9. The irony is that single-sex education actually takes you closer to achieving the objectives of Title 9, which is to broaden educational opportunity, make the same opportunities available for both girls and boys. For sure...
COLLINS: Professor Sadker...
SAX: ... girls studying computer science now.
COLLINS: ... I see you shaking your head there.
SADKER: Yes, let -- I -- if Leonard, Dr. Sax, were going to set up these schools, I'd be very comfortable. But Dr. Sax is just one person. Everybody will be setting up these schools. And the regulation as written by this administration does not call for equal. It calls for comparable. That's a danger. You may be able to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) do a male science course and a female science course where the male one is challenging and the female one is not. COLLINS: What is the better alternative? What's the solution here to really bring education not only up to par, but to excel?
SADKER: We ought to do the research first, and then figure out what works, instead of making proposals to separate students and see how that works.
Second, this is a diversion from some of those problems. Look at American schools. One-third of our schools are in the upper tier. They're world-class schools. And two-thirds are developing country schools. We ought to be figuring out how to get resources to the schools that need resources (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COLLINS: Dr. Sax, final word here.
SAX: This is an issue of social justice. You know, President George Bush, his father, Senator John Kerry, former vice president Al Gore, went to private boy's schools. All we're saying is that parents who can't afford to send their kids to private schools should have the same opportunity, the same choices available to them, that's already available in the private sector.
COLLINS: Unfortunately, we're going to have to leave it there tonight. Gentleman, we certainly do appreciate your time. Dr. Leonard Sax and Professor David Sadker again, thanks.
SAX: Thank you.
COLLINS: Tomorrow night, we'll wrap up our special series "Teach Your Children," with a look at Springs College, Deep Springs College where students call the shots. Find out why it's being called the most successful experiment in higher education in U.S. history.
You can also see our report on America's changing classroom at cnn.com/school.
(voice-over): Scott Peterson's former mistress faces cross- examination early next week. How is Amber Frey holding up? Her attorney, Gloria Allred joins me live.
And this week's 360 overkill, you be the judge. Paris Hilton's chihuahua or Oprah's jury duty? 360 continues.
COLLINS: In the next half hour of 360, did Amber Frey really fear for her life while she was dating Scott Peterson? I'll talk to her lawyer live.
But first, let's check our top stories in "The Reset" now.
In Najaf, signs of heavy fighting at the Imam Ali Mosque after Muqtada al-Sadr ignores an Iraqi government ultimatum. A CNN producer, who visited the shrine this afternoon said the mood was cheerful. Terry Nichols will accept life in prison. The Oklahoma City bombing conspirator will not appeal his conviction. A new trial will give prosecutors another chance to seek the death penalty.
This just in, live pictures now from Cincinnati, Ohio, a four alarm fire at the Queen City Barrel Company. No word on how this started, or if there are any injuries.
Vermont will not take no for an answer when it comes to importing prescription drugs. The Food & Drug Administration rejected a Vermont plan to bring down healthcare costs. Today, Vermont's governor said the state will sue the federal government for permission to bring in cheaper Canadian drugs.
Parents now have some evidence to use when their teenage daughter starts dating older boys. A new study found that girls dating someone 2 years older are likely more to smoke, drink or use drugs.
There was no suit and tie for Scott Peterson to wear a suit and tie today, no chance to walk unchained into a courtroom. His murder trial is on hold until Monday. The reason involves Amber Frey.
The prosecution's star witness will be cross-examined next week. At the heart of her testimony and the delay are those recorded phone calls between her and the accused killer.
In the taped conversations, Frey probes her former lover for lies and betrayals, and at times she's almost like a detective trying to get Peterson to reveal something more.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
AMBER FREY, FRM. LOVER OF SCOTT PETERSON: You know, Scott, when people find out, and they will, no one will think your behavior is innocent. Do you understand that?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining me now from Los Angeles in "Justice Served" tonight is Gloria Allred. She is Amber Frey's attorney.
Gloria, hello to you. Thanks so much for being with us tonight.
GLORIA ALLRED, AMBER FREY'S ATTORNEY: Thank you for having me, Heidi.
COLLINS: I want to take just a moment to listen to another one of those taped conversations. Let's do that, and I'll get your comment on the backside here.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
FREY: Should I be in fear of my own life?
PETERSON: Not from me, Amber.
PETERSON: Not from me.
FREY: Not from you?
FREY: From possibly whoever took Laci, should I be in fear for -- of them?
PETERSON: I don't think so. I don't see why.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COLLINS: Gloria, was Amber Frey really afraid for her life?
ALLRED: Heidi, I think I'll let Amber answer that in testimony on cross if Mark Geragos dares to ask that. I think that most people, however, who would be in the situation that Amber was in would have fear, would know that they were taking great risks to assist law enforcement and that they were dealing with someone who was not giving direct answers to the questions about the pregnant wife disappearing.
COLLINS: Well, Amber Frey worked with police, of course, as you know, to record those phone conversations. She's now testifying for the prosecution. Does she belief that Scott Peterson killed his wife?
ALLRED: Amber has steadfastly said from the very beginning, Heidi, that that is a question for the jury to decide. And we are going to respect the jury in that regard. And Amber -- it's not Amber's role to draw any conclusions one way or another. That is strictly within the province of the jury.
COLLINS: All right. Let's talk about the legal process here for just a moment, if we could.
You have consistently recapped the day in court, as you saw things go down for the media. Meanwhile, other attorneys, of course, are under that gag order. Why do you speak out with the press?
ALLRED: The only attorneys under the gag order are the prosecutors and defense. Although Mark Geragos tried get me included in the gag order, the court, I feel very fairly and very wisely, chose not include me in that gag order.
There's a whole swarm of defense attorneys outside the courthouse every day giving their point of view, giving their spin on the case, from a defense point of view. I represent a victim. I'm a victim's rights attorney. I represent a witness in this case who happens to also be a victim, a victim of Scott Peterson's deception, so I'm giving my personal point of view when when I give it outside the courthouse. I have the right to free speech and that's why I'm exercising it.
COLLINS: She is a witness in this case. Why does she need a lawyer? ALLRED: She needs a lawyer because she has had her reputation unfairly and inaccurately attacked. She would like to have the record clear and accurately stated, as to who she really is, and that's what I have been doing, so that her reputation is not ruined in the process. Also, it was necessary and appropriate for me to take certain actions on her behalf to stop her from being exploited. Someone was placing her photos on his website and charging people to see pictures that she had never authorized or given consent to have those photos put out there.
She's done everything to protect the integrity of her testimony. That's what I've tried to do for her and with her so she's not accepted money for interviews. She's understood what's at stake in this double murder case and she takes this case very seriously.
COLLINS: Gloria Allred, attorney for Amber Frey. That cross examiniation to begin by Mark Geragos on Monday.
360 next, when your spouse comes out of the closet. How the wife of New Jersey Governor Jim McGreevey's wife reacted when his secret was revealed.
Plus, Lady Liberty. She comes in all different sizes and sometimes she's not even a man!
COLLINS: How could this be? I can't believe it. Those words reportedly said over and over by the wife of New Jersey's governor, when he confessed to her, before telling the world he is gay. Mrs. McGreevey is putting on a brave face while dealing with a personal matter in public.
COLLINS (voice-over): They were the picture of a happy family. James and Deena McGreevey, selling the image of the Garden State as a family-friendly destination. Married for nearly four years, they appeared in public a close-knit family. The announcement he was gay caught nearly everyone by surprise, apparently even his wife.
GOV. JAMES MCGREEVEY (D), NEW JERSEY: For this I ask the forgiveness and grace of my wife. She has been extraordinary throughout this ordeal and I am blessed by virtue of her love and strength.
COLLINS: Deena stood faithfully by his side as he admitted what he called a crisis of identity.
GEORGE ZOFFINGER, FRIEND OF GOV. MCGREEVEY: We all have issues in families that are sometimes very difficult to deal with. In this particular case I can't imagine anything more difficult than telling your wife what Jim McGreevey had to tell his wife.
COLLINS: One of Deena's friends, Lori Kennedy told the "Newark Star Ledger" newspaper that Deena considered not attending but decided to show her support at the last minute. Kennedy said, quote, "she did not before that she was gay and if you saw her that night, when she found out, you'd know that she totally shocked. Never in a million years did she know."
What's ahead for the McGreevey family, not even their close friends know for sure.
COLLINS: Dino McGreevey is not alone. There are many, many others in the same situation. Here to talk about that tonight, Sarakay Smullens, a family therapist, her book "Setting Yourself Free" deals with emotional abuse which women suffer in any kind of painful marital dilemma. Appreciate you being here. You are a therapist as we have said. You've dealt with this issue of gay husbands and wives. What do you think Dina McGreevey was thinking about that day at that press conference?
SARAKAY SMULLENS, FAMILY THERAPIST: This is a much more common problem than many people realize. There are many women who enter into a relationship in a marriage with a gay partner and are totally in denial and do not understand the kind of life that they will be facing.
COLLINS: Did she think she could change him?
SMULLENS: That's such a good question. You know, most married people enter marriage thinking this or that is something I wish were different. Of course, I'll be so loyal and so devoted and so compassionate, I'll change him or her, and we all learn that the only person who changes one's self is one's self. There are different ways these kinds of unions, a gay and straight person come together. Sometimes, there is an understanding that this will be the kind of life that is needed, but usually, usually, there is absolute denial or not understanding what one is entering. You know, when you fall in love with a charismatic man who's interesting and vital, and connected, and offers you a wonderful life...
COLLINS: Sure. But Sarakay, is it possible really, you can be in a marriage, have intimate relations and have children and not know?
SMULLENS: There is a secret private pain that you endure when you marry somebody struggling with a sexual identity that is screaming to be heard. You know something is very, very wrong but you don't always know what it is. Sometimes, when you realize what it is, you can't even admit to yourself. You know, Heidi, terribly disparaging words are used to describe women in gay relationships, beard, cover girl, fag hag, it's so ugly and cruel and unkind and ungenerous, there are enormous pressures on gay men and women to hide it. They don't want to disappoint their parents. There are religious concerns. There are community concerns, and many people try valiantly to have a heterosexual life and just can't.
COLLINS: Certainly lots of tough issues there. It's going to be difficult for the children as well. We appreciate your time so much tonight. SMULLENS: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
COLLINS: 360 next. Have you heard enough this week of Oprah or perhaps Paris? You tell us which one you want overkilled, then we'll do it. Vote now on CNN/360.
COLLINS: Now that the Statute of Liberty has reopened, visitors are once again flocking to New York To get a look at her. But which one, she seems to come in so many shapes and sizes and sexes.
Here's Jeanne Moos.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Will the real statute of liberty raise your torch.
(on camera): How long have you been doing this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is my first time.
MOOS (voice-over): Within site of the original statute you can sometimes find five or six impostors of varying shades.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I like the light green, but it goes better with my hair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's not quite as green it looks like. He's a little bit bluish.
MOOS: Speaking of shades, this one wears them while inviting the huddled masses to huddle around him for a photo, price of a small donation. But there's something ironic about these Statutes of Liberty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm sorry your speaking in (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
MOOS: They're practically all immigrants out trying to make a buck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Honest money without selling drug or something else.
MOOS: Most seem to be Colombian and tend not to be ladies.
(on camera): Can I look under your skirt, lady liberty.
(voice-over): OK. So they're not as impressive as the Statute of Liberty that roamed Manhattan in "Ghost Busters 2."
But even a normal statute that moves tends to scare kids. There is one statute who calls herself the original impostor. For 18 years, Jennifer Stewart has made a living posing as the statute. How does she feel about these Johnny-come-latelies and their store bought masks.
JENNIFER STEWART, STATUE OF LIBERTY IMPERSONATOR: I'll be 60- years-old wrinkled statutes, 60 years old, but I won't wear a mask.
MOOS: With all these competing statutes, you'd think there might be confrontation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello.
MOOS: No, the statues of liberty harmoniously co-exist. Most have other jobs. One statue is better known for his salsa routine. Where he dances suggestively with a manikin attached to his shoes. But carrying a torch for lady liberty isn't easy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It gets very tired.
MOOS: Your arm gets tired.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. It's not easy. You have to stand up all day.
MOOS: At least these ladies know better than to take liberties. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
COLLINS: Only in New York.
360 next, today's "Buzz," what should today's "Overkill" story be. Oprah's jury duty or Parry Hilton's lost dog? We'll air your pick when we come back.
COLLINS: Time now for "The Buzz." Earlier we asked what should today's "Overkill" story be, Oprah's jury duty or Paris Hilton's lost dog. Fifty-nine percent voted for Paris. So here it is, the story you say the media went overboard with. Paris Hilton, lost her best friend last week, and we're not talking about her newlywed sister, Nicky. No, Paris's beloved Chihuahua tinker bell was lost and is now found. But for day, the disappearing dog gave the media much to chew over and over. And now, Tinkerbell, you're "Overkill."
COLLINS (voice-over): It was Tuesday, when the magazine show, "Extra" broke the story.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tinkerbell was missing.
COLLINS: And the rest of the media world bit hard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search for Tinkerbell.
COLLINS: The disappearance of Tinkerbell merited 360 broadcast mentions in just the last 36 hours according to the Video Monitoring Service. The print media was all over it. First the deception, reports Paris had been plastering West Hollywood with posters offering rewards for the return of an unanimous chihuahua. A Hilton family assistant told "People Magazine," the possibly purloined pouch was not Tinkerbell. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Paris told "In Touch Weekly," "If they find out Tinkerbell is my dog, they'll hold it for ransom. Everyone knows I'm rich. So they'll want millions." Touching.
Then, the speculation. The "New York Post," asked did the little lap dog take it on the lam when Paris added Prince the pomeranian, a ferret and a kitten to her (UNINTELLIGIBLE)? Would any amount of hand clapping bring Tinkerbell back. What's worst, some reports suggest, the normally stylish canine co-star of "The Simple Life" was naked when she vanished. Then, relief.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Word that the missing pup has been found.
COLLINS: And the media never known to give up on a good tail finds as much mystery in her reappearance as her disappearance. Where oh where had the little dog gone, and did anyone collect the reward. There were rumors she was found in an Ugh Boot, last season's fashion statement, humiliating and yesterday's news. Sorry, Tinkerbell and our audience think you are "Overkill."
COLLINS: Proud moment for the media. I'm Heidi Collins, in for Anderson Cooper. Up next "PAULA ZAHN NOW."
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