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American Morning
Women, Children Inside Besieged Mosque; Kerry Criticizes Bush Plan to Redeploy Troops; Louisiana Tests Plan to Help Obese Employees
Aired August 19, 2004 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everyone. Almost 8:30 here in New York. A lot to watch this half hour now. Keeping a very close eye on what's happening in Najaf near the shrine and actually inside the shrine. In a moment, a live report coming up in a matter of moments here.
Also, harsh words from Senator Kerry regarding this whole plan about troop redeployment. He claims it leaves the country vulnerable. In a moment, we'll talk with retired General Dan Christman, senior advisor of the Kerry campaign and an explanation on that speech from yesterday.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And one state is starting an interesting experiment in cost cutting. It involves a million dollars, 40 overweight employees, and gastric bypass surgery. Medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen has more on that a little bit later on.
But meanwhile, there are reports now that radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr is rejecting government demands to end the standoff in Najaf. John Vause is live in Baghdad. He's got the very latest now, once again.
John, hello.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning again, Heidi. We are having reports that heavy fighting in -- sorry, outside the Imam Ali Mosque in Najaf. We're not too sure if this is the all-out offensive on the mosque, which we have been expecting for some time.
We heard from the interim Iraqi government a few hours ago warning that some kind ever military operation was just hours away. CNN producer Kianne Sadeq is inside the mosque right now. I believe she is on the satellite phone. She joins us now.
Kianne, if you can hear us, bring us up to date. What can you see? What is happening around you?
KIANNE SADEQ, CNN PRODUCER: Yes. Hi, John. I'm actually in the (INAUDIBLE), and we drove out -- we drove in here in a large group with other journalists. And we were allowed -- we were allowed, then by both the U.S. (INAUDIBLE) Mehdi Army, who are -- who are in the closer areas of the mosque. The streets outside the mosque are completely destroyed, lots of destruction to the streets.
It's mainly -- the numbers of the Mehdi Army. And just outside of that, far from the mosque, is the -- the U.S. tanks. When we came in, we were greeted by many -- several of the Mehdi Army. They were dancing. They were cheering us on to come in here and to see -- they were cheering on, Muqtada al-Sadr -- and we are...
VAUSE: OK. I think we're having trouble with Kianne inside the mosque, but she has been reporting to us a little bit earlier on the phone, Heidi, that there is some serious fighting being waged around the mosque right now.
No actual assault on the Imam Ali shrine at this stage. But she has been reporting that the area -- excuse me. That the area around the mosque, the streets, the homes, the businesses, have been severely damaged, probably as a result of two weeks of heavy clashes between the Iraqi forces and the U.S. Forces and the Mehdi militia.
Kianne has actually had a chance to speak with one of the senior aides to Muqtada al-Sadr, who has rejected that proposal put by the interim Iraqi government. Kianne is back on the line with us right now.
Kianne, tell us about the fighting. What do you know about the current clashes around the Imam Ali Mosque?
SADEQ: Well, John, you -- while we are inside the mosque, we are here. Lots of gunfire. We hear many explosions, many explosions. And what seems to be -- what seems to be mortar fire, and lots of gunfire outside. It's ongoing. It's a constant sound that you hear when you're in here, from loud explosions to small -- small arms fire.
The clashes are ongoing out here. And as a matter of fact, before we came in, there was -- there was actually too much sniper fire to even get near this area. We had to come in by the assistance of the governor's office, the U.S. military and the Mehdi Army. Otherwise, we wouldn't have been able to make it, because there's far too much fighting going on, and it's constant. John, it's constant.
VAUSE: What exactly is the Mehdi militia doing now? Can you see them? Are they preparing for a fight? Are they deployed around the mosque? What are their movements inside the Imam Ali Mosque?
SADEQ: Yes. They are very proud to be here, John. They are very proud to be here. They are very proud to be standing -- standing up with their rights, standing up for, say, Muqtada al-Sadr.
So they are all in here, and they are not leaving. We've even found some children in here, John. We've found women in here. Very few, of course, but there are all kinds of people in this mosque, mainly Mehdi Army and several of Muqtada al-Sadr's spokesmen. They are all very proud to be in here and -- well, seems to be adamant about, you know, staying in here, not going anywhere until the fighting is over.
VAUSE: Kianne, does it look like the militia members are getting ready for a fight? Are they taking up positions? Are they arming themselves? What's going on?
Once again, having communications problems with Kianne inside the Imam Ali Mosque. We will try and get her back on the line.
But as we have heard from Kianne, women and children inside that mosque along with thousands, up to 2,000 members of the Mehdi militia whose numbers have swelled in the last week or so here in Baghdad, in Basra and around the country.
Calls went out after Friday prayers, calling on Shiites and other Iraqis to flock to Najaf, to defend the Imam Ali Mosque. Their numbers have swelled and went from 1,000 up to 2,000 people.
It appears now, Heidi, that they are getting ready for a fight. Whether this is it, whether this is the military operation, which the minister of state warned of just a few hours ago, we are not too sure. But certainly, some very intense fighting underway right now, Heidi.
COLLINS: John, tell us a little bit about -- I know you've been covering the story, as well, even though you are in Baghdad for quite some time for us here at CNN.
Does it surprise you at all that Kianne said women and children inside that shrine?
VAUSE: It doesn't surprise me at all. What we saw over a week or so, when that call went out for all Iraqis, in particular Shiite Muslims, to join this battle, to flock to the mosque, we did see families arriving. As Kianne said, not many.
Mostly, the supporters who are inside that mosque, those loyal to Muqtada al-Sadr, are in fact young, unemployed men, those who have a grievance with the U.S. forces here and with the interim Iraqi government.
But it's not surprising that women and children are inside that mosque as well, Heidi. But that makes it so much more dangerous, so much more explosive, both for the interim Iraqi government as well as the U.S. forces, which are now massed outside the gates of the Imam Ali Mosque.
Last report, putting Humvees and tanks about 400 yards outside the gates. The closest they have been in two weeks ever fighting, Heidi.
COLLINS: Do you think that could actually make the difference then, John, in whether or not U.S. forces go inside the shrine, which has been a huge topic of debate throughout all of this?
VAUSE: Yes. There's so many variables in all of this.
First of all, not just the issue of the women and children, but whether or not U.S. forces, in fact, go into the mosque in the first place.
We have heard from the defense minister. We have heard from the prime minister here, as well as from the minister of state, saying that any raid on the mosque will be led by the Iraqi troops, that the U.S. forces will provide air support, that tanks will close down the streets outside the mosque that will set up some kind of perimeter, stabilize the area outside, while a specially trained force of Iraqis will lead that operation.
What was interesting, when Kianne spoke, was the state minister a few hours ago. She asked him about this operation to, quote, "liberate the mosque" from Muqtada al-Sadr and his Mehdi militia.
He said that they had good military intelligence. They have a plan in place that they can carry out this military operation without causing any damage to the Imam Ali Mosque. That remains to be seen.
We've heard from Kianne, actually, saying that one of the minarets, at last one of the minarets of the mosque has, in fact, been damaged and al-Sadr's people claiming that a clock in one of the towers actually caught fire. That fire they had to put out overnight.
A very explosive situation for the U.S. here, Heidi.
COLLINS: All right, John. Well, we have a very rare opportunity, just reminding everyone. Our producer, Kianne Sadeq, inside that mosque right now. She said basically, welcomed into that mosque by the Mehdi Army to cheers. A large group of journalists have been brought in there. So we, of course, are going to keep a very close eye on this for you, for the very latest as it happens.
HEMMER: All right. In the meantime, though, we'll shift our focus to the U.S. military.
Democratic candidate for president John Kerry coming down hard yesterday on President Bush's plan to withdraw 70,000 troops out of Europe and Asia over the next 10 years.
Senator Kerry yesterday in Cincinnati said this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president's vaguely stated plan does not strengthen our hand in the war on terror. It in no way relieves the strain on our overextended military personnel. It doesn't even begin until 2006, and it takes two years to achieve. And this hastily announced plan raises more doubts about our intentions and our commitment than it provides real answers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: This hour now, let's talk about it more. In D.C. retired General Dan Christman, a senior advisor to the Kerry campaign, my guest now.
And General, good morning to you.
GEN. DAN CHRISTMAN, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: I know I brought you on to talk about this topic. But quickly, what you're listening to and watching in Najaf. Your take on that from a military perspective is what now? CHRISTMAN: It's a clear strategic turning point for Prime Minister Allawi. He cannot allow Najaf to descend into chaos and to allow a small band, like in Fallujah, to establish essential independence away from the sovereign Iraqi government. This has to be resolved.
I think the good thing, Bill, is that he's moved it now to the point where it's the Iraqis that are doing this and not the American Marines or the 1st Cav division. But a major turning point.
HEMMER: Can you say, with regard to Ayad Allawi and how he's led on this issue, how well he is doing at this point?
CHRISTMAN: Well, I think in this case I have to commend him for the tactics that he's using, and that's to put the Iraqis on point, using the American soldiers and Marines for the heavy firepower, the air support but allowing the Iraqis themselves to get close to the mosque, if necessary, to go in.
We cannot allow Muqtada al-Sadr to be captured by Americans. That would be a disaster. This has to be an Iraqi operation. He's using force, Allawi is, I think, in the right way. But again, a turning point and this has to be revolved here in these next several days.
HEMMER: General, thank you for your thoughts on that. Let's go back to our topic that we brought you on here for. Senator Kerry doesn't like this redeployment plan. What's his plan, then?
CHRISTMAN: Well, Bill, I think there are several distractions, as I've heard this debate unfold for the last two or three days.
Distraction No. 1, which Senator Kerry, I think, gets and the administration appears not to. It's not the issue of moving troops back to states, back to Fort Hood, that's the question, it's the size our army. The families could care less. In fact, many prefer to be in Owenfeldts (ph) or Ramstein as opposed to Fort Polk or Fort Hood.
HEMMER: You're saying that families could care less?
CHRISTMAN: Yes. What the families care about is where the soldiers are, Bill. The soldiers that the miss the second Christmas or third wedding anniversary in four years if they're in Afghanistan or in Iraq or in the Balkans, that's the question.
So you relieve that pressure by the increasing side of the Army. So why take $7, $8, $10 billion, redeploy troops when that money should be better invested, as Senator Kerry wants to do, on increasing the Army by 40,000.
That's the distraction. Kerry gets it. I don't think the administration does.
HEMMER: Let's try and -- let's try and pare down our argument. Condoleezza Rice yesterday, late afternoon on CNN, said the allies have been talked, they're put in notice. They're in agreement on this as it comes to the South Koreans and the Germans, et cetera in Europe.
Earlier today, Jim Wilkinson, deputy security advisor to Condoleezza Rice, was talking here on our program. He says that John Kerry supported this in the past several months, and now he's changing his stance.
Here what he said last hour here on AMERICAN MORNING.
CHRISTMAN: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM WILKINSON, DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Senator Kerry, I think, is actually debating with himself, because on August 1 he did support the redeployment of troops on the Korean Peninsula and in Europe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: He's talking about August 1, an interview with George Stephanopoulos on ABC. We found back on April 14 a news conference in New York. Senator Kerry actually talking about the reduction of the American presence, specifically as it applies to South Korea.
Is this a change now in the Kerry campaign position?
CHRISTMAN: That's distraction No. 2, Bill. The press folks there talked about the movement of troops away from the DMZ and outside of Seoul, moving those to the south. That makes incredible sense. All of us in the military, Senator Kerry as well, agrees with that.
The issue is the announcement. Why in heaven's name we'd say now that we're going to reduce 12,500 troops from South Korea, which is the number, before North Korea has given up its nuclear program, it's just irrational. It makes no sense. It's a doctrine of preemption, but it's preemptive concession to Pyongyang. That's the issue, and the distraction about moving out of the DMZ is just that, a distraction.
HEMMER: General Daniel Christman, thanks, working on behalf of the Kerry/Edwards campaign in Washington. Nice to you have here this morning.
CHRISTMAN: Thank you, Bill.
HEMMER: About 41 minutes past the hour. To Carol Costello now and a look at the other news, starting in Texas, I believe. Right, Carol? Good morning.
CAROL COSTELLO, ANCHOR: We have a little more information about that, Bill.
In Texas, an explosion at an underground gas storage facility has forced dozens are people in the area to evacuate now. Witnesses say they saw a ball of fire above the building. There are no reports of any injuries. The cause of this blast has not yet been determined.
British police have arrested a 19-year-old man under the country's terrorism act. According to police, the man was arrested in Birmingham and is due for questioning later today. It's not clear what led authorities to take this man into custody.
According to the Bush administration, pressure is building in Congress to allow cheaper prescription drug imports from Canada and elsewhere. President Bush is considering his support for a move but cautions Americans about safety concerns.
Earlier this week, Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich announced plans to help Illinois residents buy cheaper drugs from overseas.
And a teary homecoming at Fort Riley in Kansas, where the 1st Brigade of the 1st Infantry Division was welcomed hole. Some 100 soldiers are now back with their families after nearly one year in Iraq.
Back to New York now -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Great pictures there. All right, Carol. Thanks so much.
Want to get a check on the weather now. Chad Myers at the CNN Center with the very latest forecast.
Hey, Chad.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COLLINS: All right, Chad. Thanks a lot.
In a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMIE SANDERS, SUFFERS FROM OBESITY: I always thought I could get in control of it, and after so long, so many years, I can't. I can't do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: One state's new plan to pick up the tab to help her and others lose weight. We'll have that story.
COLLINS: And after losing everything in Hurricanes Charley, what do you have to do to win the fight with the insurance company? Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Sanjay is out today, but in medical news, the state of Louisiana takes a gastric gamble, trying to reduce healthcare costs. And Elizabeth Cohen, our medical correspondent, working today at the CNN Center. Good morning. Radical approach, some say. Good morning.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It certainly is. And some people say a radical approach is needed, Bill, because obesity costs this country $75 billion a year.
One of the states with one of the highest obesity rates is Louisiana. And they're considering a drastic solution.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN (voice-over): Jimmie Sanders is morbidly obese. On that, everyone agrees.
SANDERS: I hate this side of me. I hate that I let myself get where I'm at today.
COHEN: But here's the debate. Should Sanders try to lose wait by diet and exercise, something she's failed at so far, or should she go ahead and have gastric bypass surgery, which would cost about $30,000?
SANDERS: All right.
Travel office?
COHEN: So Sanders' employer, the state of Louisiana, is trying an experiment. They're giving free gastric bypass surgery to 40 employees, including Sanders.
After five years, the state will figure which costs more, the surgery or the medical costs of being obese: the illnesses, the disability, the loss days of work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their whole goal is to, you know, have the number of medicines you get go down dramatically. So most of the time 50 percent of the pills you've taken in the past you won't take any more.
COHEN: For Sanders, who needs to lose about 100 pounds, the decision was pretty easy, even though the surgery can be risky. One study has found that two percent of the patients die within 30 days of the surgery.
SANDERS: You could probably look in the dictionary under "diet" and my picture would be in there somewhere, I assume.
COHEN: She takes medicine for high blood pressure and high cholesterol, and her doctor told her if she doesn't lose weight, he'll have to put her on medicine for diabetes, too.
And even those she's seen four relatives die of the disease, she still can't lose the weight.
SANDERS: I always thought I could get in control of it. And after so long, so many years, I can't. I can't do it. COHEN: That, of course, is the point of the surgery: to force her to lose weight by making her stomach smaller.
Gastric bypass has a good track record for helping people lose weight and keep it off. Whether it helps a state in the midst of an obesity epidemic save money is something they hope to figure out.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN: Jimmie Sanders will be having her gastric bypass surgery in just a few hours -- Bill.
HEMMER: Wish her the best of luck. Elizabeth, thanks for that.
In a moment here, back to Iraq and back to the scene in Najaf. CNN had a producer inside that shrine. We'll try and figure out what's happening at this point. Back in a moment with more after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right. Welcome back, everyone -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: In the aftermath of Hurricane Charley, will your insurance company will be there if you're one of its clients? Well, it depends. Gerri Willis is in for Andy Serwer. She's "Minding Your Business."
A couple of new wrinkles for the old policyholders?
GERRI WILLIS, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Not looking good. According to the Consumer Federation of America, they're saying that people who are victims of Hurricane Charley could have a surprise when they open up their check from the insurance company.
Check this out. The insurers are figuring your deductible in a different way. Instead of giving you a flat amount of money that you've already figured out, you know how much it is, they're figuring on a percentage of your home's value. Two percent to five percent, that's your deductible. That's how much you'll pay. So it's going to be far more than people expected.
CAFFERTY: That's a weasel deal. Isn't it?
WILLIS: Well, that's what the Consumer Federation of America is saying. And they expect...
CAFFERTY: I bet they don't use that phrase? A weasel deal? Do they?
WILLIS: That's not their phrase. No, Jack. You're right. That's your phrase.
CAFFERTY: Well, I mean, that's -- That's really kind of a, you know, behind the back pass on the part of these companies. You think you have one deal, then you go to try and collect. And it's like, "Well, we changed the game while you weren't looking."
WILLIS: Well, apparently, there's some discussion about whether people were notified or not. But you know how it is. You get a ton of stuff from your insurance company.
CAFFERTY: Yes, 87-page policy, right? You're going to sit down and read every line of it?
WILLIS: That's right.
CAFFERTY: I guess that's the reason we should.
WILLIS: Trying to reduce how much money they have pay out. After Hurricane Andrew they changed all their policies. Consumers could get hurt.
CAFFERTY: OK. Now Google is supposed to trade today. The question is, what time today?
WILLIS: Well, nobody knows.
CAFFERTY: No.
WILLIS: We're still trying to figure that out. We don't know. But what you do know here is that expectations for Google not what we originally anticipated. Stock was priced at $85. We had thought much more. So we'll see when it comes out.
Oil prices are really impacting the market this morning, so we'll see where it opens.
CAFFERTY: All right, Gerri, thank you.
Time now for "The Cafferty File."
As promised, a black bear in Baker Lake, Washington, had his own little campground party when he stumbled onto some campers' coolers. Fish and wildlife agents found this guys passed out stone cold after consuming 36 cans of Rainier beer.
COLLINS: Well, there's the problem.
CAFFERTY: There he is, having a little nap. Apparently, the bear tried one can of Busch beer. He didn't like that. Went back and drank 36 cans of the Rainier.
When they tried to catch him, he went right up a tree and continued for four more hours to sleep it off. They finally lured him down. And guess what they baited him with: donuts, honey, and two more cans of Rainier beer.
HEMMER: Sure.
CAFFERTY: One more for the road!
Now, if that bear drove a car, he would need to have one of these. This is Keith Emerick (ph) on the left in this picture. He told his doctor he drinks six to ten beers a day. His doctor reported him to the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation. They deemed it unsafe to allow him to drive a car and they revoked his license.
Well, he finally got his license back. What a terrific idea, this. Only after the courts ordered him to install a built-in breath tester in his car. He must blow into it, and it has to register an acceptable blood alcohol level, or the engine won't start.
I mean, why doesn't every car have one of these? It's a great idea.
"Maxim" magazine's come up with what it thinks might be the best sandwich in the country, depending, I guess, on your point of view. It's called the Fat Darrell, and it was invented by a university student at Rutgers named Darrell Butler after all night of partying back in 1997.
The Fat Darrell is as follows: chicken fingers, mozzarella sticks and French fries with marinara sauce on a roll.
"Maxim" says, "It just has that element of drunken ingenuity that our readers like."
Actually looks pretty good. I'd eat -- I'd eat one of them.
HEMMER: There's a theme there, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Yes, I know.
COLLINS: The breathalyzer is an idea, for repeat offenders at least.
CAFFERTY: Really. It should -- That's something that ought to be in your cars.
Turning to the scorecard, which I almost forgot. And I never want to forget to do this. It has now been 28 days since the 9/11 Commission made recommendations for protecting this country against terrorists. The number of recommendations adopted by your Congress so far, nada!
Congress is on vacation. Enjoy yourselves.
COLLINS: All right, Jack. Thanks a lot.
Still to come this morning, the final showdown may be underway in the streets of Najaf. The very latest on a critical battle for control of Iraq.
Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired August 19, 2004 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everyone. Almost 8:30 here in New York. A lot to watch this half hour now. Keeping a very close eye on what's happening in Najaf near the shrine and actually inside the shrine. In a moment, a live report coming up in a matter of moments here.
Also, harsh words from Senator Kerry regarding this whole plan about troop redeployment. He claims it leaves the country vulnerable. In a moment, we'll talk with retired General Dan Christman, senior advisor of the Kerry campaign and an explanation on that speech from yesterday.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And one state is starting an interesting experiment in cost cutting. It involves a million dollars, 40 overweight employees, and gastric bypass surgery. Medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen has more on that a little bit later on.
But meanwhile, there are reports now that radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr is rejecting government demands to end the standoff in Najaf. John Vause is live in Baghdad. He's got the very latest now, once again.
John, hello.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning again, Heidi. We are having reports that heavy fighting in -- sorry, outside the Imam Ali Mosque in Najaf. We're not too sure if this is the all-out offensive on the mosque, which we have been expecting for some time.
We heard from the interim Iraqi government a few hours ago warning that some kind ever military operation was just hours away. CNN producer Kianne Sadeq is inside the mosque right now. I believe she is on the satellite phone. She joins us now.
Kianne, if you can hear us, bring us up to date. What can you see? What is happening around you?
KIANNE SADEQ, CNN PRODUCER: Yes. Hi, John. I'm actually in the (INAUDIBLE), and we drove out -- we drove in here in a large group with other journalists. And we were allowed -- we were allowed, then by both the U.S. (INAUDIBLE) Mehdi Army, who are -- who are in the closer areas of the mosque. The streets outside the mosque are completely destroyed, lots of destruction to the streets.
It's mainly -- the numbers of the Mehdi Army. And just outside of that, far from the mosque, is the -- the U.S. tanks. When we came in, we were greeted by many -- several of the Mehdi Army. They were dancing. They were cheering us on to come in here and to see -- they were cheering on, Muqtada al-Sadr -- and we are...
VAUSE: OK. I think we're having trouble with Kianne inside the mosque, but she has been reporting to us a little bit earlier on the phone, Heidi, that there is some serious fighting being waged around the mosque right now.
No actual assault on the Imam Ali shrine at this stage. But she has been reporting that the area -- excuse me. That the area around the mosque, the streets, the homes, the businesses, have been severely damaged, probably as a result of two weeks of heavy clashes between the Iraqi forces and the U.S. Forces and the Mehdi militia.
Kianne has actually had a chance to speak with one of the senior aides to Muqtada al-Sadr, who has rejected that proposal put by the interim Iraqi government. Kianne is back on the line with us right now.
Kianne, tell us about the fighting. What do you know about the current clashes around the Imam Ali Mosque?
SADEQ: Well, John, you -- while we are inside the mosque, we are here. Lots of gunfire. We hear many explosions, many explosions. And what seems to be -- what seems to be mortar fire, and lots of gunfire outside. It's ongoing. It's a constant sound that you hear when you're in here, from loud explosions to small -- small arms fire.
The clashes are ongoing out here. And as a matter of fact, before we came in, there was -- there was actually too much sniper fire to even get near this area. We had to come in by the assistance of the governor's office, the U.S. military and the Mehdi Army. Otherwise, we wouldn't have been able to make it, because there's far too much fighting going on, and it's constant. John, it's constant.
VAUSE: What exactly is the Mehdi militia doing now? Can you see them? Are they preparing for a fight? Are they deployed around the mosque? What are their movements inside the Imam Ali Mosque?
SADEQ: Yes. They are very proud to be here, John. They are very proud to be here. They are very proud to be standing -- standing up with their rights, standing up for, say, Muqtada al-Sadr.
So they are all in here, and they are not leaving. We've even found some children in here, John. We've found women in here. Very few, of course, but there are all kinds of people in this mosque, mainly Mehdi Army and several of Muqtada al-Sadr's spokesmen. They are all very proud to be in here and -- well, seems to be adamant about, you know, staying in here, not going anywhere until the fighting is over.
VAUSE: Kianne, does it look like the militia members are getting ready for a fight? Are they taking up positions? Are they arming themselves? What's going on?
Once again, having communications problems with Kianne inside the Imam Ali Mosque. We will try and get her back on the line.
But as we have heard from Kianne, women and children inside that mosque along with thousands, up to 2,000 members of the Mehdi militia whose numbers have swelled in the last week or so here in Baghdad, in Basra and around the country.
Calls went out after Friday prayers, calling on Shiites and other Iraqis to flock to Najaf, to defend the Imam Ali Mosque. Their numbers have swelled and went from 1,000 up to 2,000 people.
It appears now, Heidi, that they are getting ready for a fight. Whether this is it, whether this is the military operation, which the minister of state warned of just a few hours ago, we are not too sure. But certainly, some very intense fighting underway right now, Heidi.
COLLINS: John, tell us a little bit about -- I know you've been covering the story, as well, even though you are in Baghdad for quite some time for us here at CNN.
Does it surprise you at all that Kianne said women and children inside that shrine?
VAUSE: It doesn't surprise me at all. What we saw over a week or so, when that call went out for all Iraqis, in particular Shiite Muslims, to join this battle, to flock to the mosque, we did see families arriving. As Kianne said, not many.
Mostly, the supporters who are inside that mosque, those loyal to Muqtada al-Sadr, are in fact young, unemployed men, those who have a grievance with the U.S. forces here and with the interim Iraqi government.
But it's not surprising that women and children are inside that mosque as well, Heidi. But that makes it so much more dangerous, so much more explosive, both for the interim Iraqi government as well as the U.S. forces, which are now massed outside the gates of the Imam Ali Mosque.
Last report, putting Humvees and tanks about 400 yards outside the gates. The closest they have been in two weeks ever fighting, Heidi.
COLLINS: Do you think that could actually make the difference then, John, in whether or not U.S. forces go inside the shrine, which has been a huge topic of debate throughout all of this?
VAUSE: Yes. There's so many variables in all of this.
First of all, not just the issue of the women and children, but whether or not U.S. forces, in fact, go into the mosque in the first place.
We have heard from the defense minister. We have heard from the prime minister here, as well as from the minister of state, saying that any raid on the mosque will be led by the Iraqi troops, that the U.S. forces will provide air support, that tanks will close down the streets outside the mosque that will set up some kind of perimeter, stabilize the area outside, while a specially trained force of Iraqis will lead that operation.
What was interesting, when Kianne spoke, was the state minister a few hours ago. She asked him about this operation to, quote, "liberate the mosque" from Muqtada al-Sadr and his Mehdi militia.
He said that they had good military intelligence. They have a plan in place that they can carry out this military operation without causing any damage to the Imam Ali Mosque. That remains to be seen.
We've heard from Kianne, actually, saying that one of the minarets, at last one of the minarets of the mosque has, in fact, been damaged and al-Sadr's people claiming that a clock in one of the towers actually caught fire. That fire they had to put out overnight.
A very explosive situation for the U.S. here, Heidi.
COLLINS: All right, John. Well, we have a very rare opportunity, just reminding everyone. Our producer, Kianne Sadeq, inside that mosque right now. She said basically, welcomed into that mosque by the Mehdi Army to cheers. A large group of journalists have been brought in there. So we, of course, are going to keep a very close eye on this for you, for the very latest as it happens.
HEMMER: All right. In the meantime, though, we'll shift our focus to the U.S. military.
Democratic candidate for president John Kerry coming down hard yesterday on President Bush's plan to withdraw 70,000 troops out of Europe and Asia over the next 10 years.
Senator Kerry yesterday in Cincinnati said this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president's vaguely stated plan does not strengthen our hand in the war on terror. It in no way relieves the strain on our overextended military personnel. It doesn't even begin until 2006, and it takes two years to achieve. And this hastily announced plan raises more doubts about our intentions and our commitment than it provides real answers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: This hour now, let's talk about it more. In D.C. retired General Dan Christman, a senior advisor to the Kerry campaign, my guest now.
And General, good morning to you.
GEN. DAN CHRISTMAN, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: I know I brought you on to talk about this topic. But quickly, what you're listening to and watching in Najaf. Your take on that from a military perspective is what now? CHRISTMAN: It's a clear strategic turning point for Prime Minister Allawi. He cannot allow Najaf to descend into chaos and to allow a small band, like in Fallujah, to establish essential independence away from the sovereign Iraqi government. This has to be resolved.
I think the good thing, Bill, is that he's moved it now to the point where it's the Iraqis that are doing this and not the American Marines or the 1st Cav division. But a major turning point.
HEMMER: Can you say, with regard to Ayad Allawi and how he's led on this issue, how well he is doing at this point?
CHRISTMAN: Well, I think in this case I have to commend him for the tactics that he's using, and that's to put the Iraqis on point, using the American soldiers and Marines for the heavy firepower, the air support but allowing the Iraqis themselves to get close to the mosque, if necessary, to go in.
We cannot allow Muqtada al-Sadr to be captured by Americans. That would be a disaster. This has to be an Iraqi operation. He's using force, Allawi is, I think, in the right way. But again, a turning point and this has to be revolved here in these next several days.
HEMMER: General, thank you for your thoughts on that. Let's go back to our topic that we brought you on here for. Senator Kerry doesn't like this redeployment plan. What's his plan, then?
CHRISTMAN: Well, Bill, I think there are several distractions, as I've heard this debate unfold for the last two or three days.
Distraction No. 1, which Senator Kerry, I think, gets and the administration appears not to. It's not the issue of moving troops back to states, back to Fort Hood, that's the question, it's the size our army. The families could care less. In fact, many prefer to be in Owenfeldts (ph) or Ramstein as opposed to Fort Polk or Fort Hood.
HEMMER: You're saying that families could care less?
CHRISTMAN: Yes. What the families care about is where the soldiers are, Bill. The soldiers that the miss the second Christmas or third wedding anniversary in four years if they're in Afghanistan or in Iraq or in the Balkans, that's the question.
So you relieve that pressure by the increasing side of the Army. So why take $7, $8, $10 billion, redeploy troops when that money should be better invested, as Senator Kerry wants to do, on increasing the Army by 40,000.
That's the distraction. Kerry gets it. I don't think the administration does.
HEMMER: Let's try and -- let's try and pare down our argument. Condoleezza Rice yesterday, late afternoon on CNN, said the allies have been talked, they're put in notice. They're in agreement on this as it comes to the South Koreans and the Germans, et cetera in Europe.
Earlier today, Jim Wilkinson, deputy security advisor to Condoleezza Rice, was talking here on our program. He says that John Kerry supported this in the past several months, and now he's changing his stance.
Here what he said last hour here on AMERICAN MORNING.
CHRISTMAN: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM WILKINSON, DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Senator Kerry, I think, is actually debating with himself, because on August 1 he did support the redeployment of troops on the Korean Peninsula and in Europe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: He's talking about August 1, an interview with George Stephanopoulos on ABC. We found back on April 14 a news conference in New York. Senator Kerry actually talking about the reduction of the American presence, specifically as it applies to South Korea.
Is this a change now in the Kerry campaign position?
CHRISTMAN: That's distraction No. 2, Bill. The press folks there talked about the movement of troops away from the DMZ and outside of Seoul, moving those to the south. That makes incredible sense. All of us in the military, Senator Kerry as well, agrees with that.
The issue is the announcement. Why in heaven's name we'd say now that we're going to reduce 12,500 troops from South Korea, which is the number, before North Korea has given up its nuclear program, it's just irrational. It makes no sense. It's a doctrine of preemption, but it's preemptive concession to Pyongyang. That's the issue, and the distraction about moving out of the DMZ is just that, a distraction.
HEMMER: General Daniel Christman, thanks, working on behalf of the Kerry/Edwards campaign in Washington. Nice to you have here this morning.
CHRISTMAN: Thank you, Bill.
HEMMER: About 41 minutes past the hour. To Carol Costello now and a look at the other news, starting in Texas, I believe. Right, Carol? Good morning.
CAROL COSTELLO, ANCHOR: We have a little more information about that, Bill.
In Texas, an explosion at an underground gas storage facility has forced dozens are people in the area to evacuate now. Witnesses say they saw a ball of fire above the building. There are no reports of any injuries. The cause of this blast has not yet been determined.
British police have arrested a 19-year-old man under the country's terrorism act. According to police, the man was arrested in Birmingham and is due for questioning later today. It's not clear what led authorities to take this man into custody.
According to the Bush administration, pressure is building in Congress to allow cheaper prescription drug imports from Canada and elsewhere. President Bush is considering his support for a move but cautions Americans about safety concerns.
Earlier this week, Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich announced plans to help Illinois residents buy cheaper drugs from overseas.
And a teary homecoming at Fort Riley in Kansas, where the 1st Brigade of the 1st Infantry Division was welcomed hole. Some 100 soldiers are now back with their families after nearly one year in Iraq.
Back to New York now -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Great pictures there. All right, Carol. Thanks so much.
Want to get a check on the weather now. Chad Myers at the CNN Center with the very latest forecast.
Hey, Chad.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COLLINS: All right, Chad. Thanks a lot.
In a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMIE SANDERS, SUFFERS FROM OBESITY: I always thought I could get in control of it, and after so long, so many years, I can't. I can't do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: One state's new plan to pick up the tab to help her and others lose weight. We'll have that story.
COLLINS: And after losing everything in Hurricanes Charley, what do you have to do to win the fight with the insurance company? Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Sanjay is out today, but in medical news, the state of Louisiana takes a gastric gamble, trying to reduce healthcare costs. And Elizabeth Cohen, our medical correspondent, working today at the CNN Center. Good morning. Radical approach, some say. Good morning.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It certainly is. And some people say a radical approach is needed, Bill, because obesity costs this country $75 billion a year.
One of the states with one of the highest obesity rates is Louisiana. And they're considering a drastic solution.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN (voice-over): Jimmie Sanders is morbidly obese. On that, everyone agrees.
SANDERS: I hate this side of me. I hate that I let myself get where I'm at today.
COHEN: But here's the debate. Should Sanders try to lose wait by diet and exercise, something she's failed at so far, or should she go ahead and have gastric bypass surgery, which would cost about $30,000?
SANDERS: All right.
Travel office?
COHEN: So Sanders' employer, the state of Louisiana, is trying an experiment. They're giving free gastric bypass surgery to 40 employees, including Sanders.
After five years, the state will figure which costs more, the surgery or the medical costs of being obese: the illnesses, the disability, the loss days of work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their whole goal is to, you know, have the number of medicines you get go down dramatically. So most of the time 50 percent of the pills you've taken in the past you won't take any more.
COHEN: For Sanders, who needs to lose about 100 pounds, the decision was pretty easy, even though the surgery can be risky. One study has found that two percent of the patients die within 30 days of the surgery.
SANDERS: You could probably look in the dictionary under "diet" and my picture would be in there somewhere, I assume.
COHEN: She takes medicine for high blood pressure and high cholesterol, and her doctor told her if she doesn't lose weight, he'll have to put her on medicine for diabetes, too.
And even those she's seen four relatives die of the disease, she still can't lose the weight.
SANDERS: I always thought I could get in control of it. And after so long, so many years, I can't. I can't do it. COHEN: That, of course, is the point of the surgery: to force her to lose weight by making her stomach smaller.
Gastric bypass has a good track record for helping people lose weight and keep it off. Whether it helps a state in the midst of an obesity epidemic save money is something they hope to figure out.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN: Jimmie Sanders will be having her gastric bypass surgery in just a few hours -- Bill.
HEMMER: Wish her the best of luck. Elizabeth, thanks for that.
In a moment here, back to Iraq and back to the scene in Najaf. CNN had a producer inside that shrine. We'll try and figure out what's happening at this point. Back in a moment with more after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right. Welcome back, everyone -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: In the aftermath of Hurricane Charley, will your insurance company will be there if you're one of its clients? Well, it depends. Gerri Willis is in for Andy Serwer. She's "Minding Your Business."
A couple of new wrinkles for the old policyholders?
GERRI WILLIS, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Not looking good. According to the Consumer Federation of America, they're saying that people who are victims of Hurricane Charley could have a surprise when they open up their check from the insurance company.
Check this out. The insurers are figuring your deductible in a different way. Instead of giving you a flat amount of money that you've already figured out, you know how much it is, they're figuring on a percentage of your home's value. Two percent to five percent, that's your deductible. That's how much you'll pay. So it's going to be far more than people expected.
CAFFERTY: That's a weasel deal. Isn't it?
WILLIS: Well, that's what the Consumer Federation of America is saying. And they expect...
CAFFERTY: I bet they don't use that phrase? A weasel deal? Do they?
WILLIS: That's not their phrase. No, Jack. You're right. That's your phrase.
CAFFERTY: Well, I mean, that's -- That's really kind of a, you know, behind the back pass on the part of these companies. You think you have one deal, then you go to try and collect. And it's like, "Well, we changed the game while you weren't looking."
WILLIS: Well, apparently, there's some discussion about whether people were notified or not. But you know how it is. You get a ton of stuff from your insurance company.
CAFFERTY: Yes, 87-page policy, right? You're going to sit down and read every line of it?
WILLIS: That's right.
CAFFERTY: I guess that's the reason we should.
WILLIS: Trying to reduce how much money they have pay out. After Hurricane Andrew they changed all their policies. Consumers could get hurt.
CAFFERTY: OK. Now Google is supposed to trade today. The question is, what time today?
WILLIS: Well, nobody knows.
CAFFERTY: No.
WILLIS: We're still trying to figure that out. We don't know. But what you do know here is that expectations for Google not what we originally anticipated. Stock was priced at $85. We had thought much more. So we'll see when it comes out.
Oil prices are really impacting the market this morning, so we'll see where it opens.
CAFFERTY: All right, Gerri, thank you.
Time now for "The Cafferty File."
As promised, a black bear in Baker Lake, Washington, had his own little campground party when he stumbled onto some campers' coolers. Fish and wildlife agents found this guys passed out stone cold after consuming 36 cans of Rainier beer.
COLLINS: Well, there's the problem.
CAFFERTY: There he is, having a little nap. Apparently, the bear tried one can of Busch beer. He didn't like that. Went back and drank 36 cans of the Rainier.
When they tried to catch him, he went right up a tree and continued for four more hours to sleep it off. They finally lured him down. And guess what they baited him with: donuts, honey, and two more cans of Rainier beer.
HEMMER: Sure.
CAFFERTY: One more for the road!
Now, if that bear drove a car, he would need to have one of these. This is Keith Emerick (ph) on the left in this picture. He told his doctor he drinks six to ten beers a day. His doctor reported him to the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation. They deemed it unsafe to allow him to drive a car and they revoked his license.
Well, he finally got his license back. What a terrific idea, this. Only after the courts ordered him to install a built-in breath tester in his car. He must blow into it, and it has to register an acceptable blood alcohol level, or the engine won't start.
I mean, why doesn't every car have one of these? It's a great idea.
"Maxim" magazine's come up with what it thinks might be the best sandwich in the country, depending, I guess, on your point of view. It's called the Fat Darrell, and it was invented by a university student at Rutgers named Darrell Butler after all night of partying back in 1997.
The Fat Darrell is as follows: chicken fingers, mozzarella sticks and French fries with marinara sauce on a roll.
"Maxim" says, "It just has that element of drunken ingenuity that our readers like."
Actually looks pretty good. I'd eat -- I'd eat one of them.
HEMMER: There's a theme there, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Yes, I know.
COLLINS: The breathalyzer is an idea, for repeat offenders at least.
CAFFERTY: Really. It should -- That's something that ought to be in your cars.
Turning to the scorecard, which I almost forgot. And I never want to forget to do this. It has now been 28 days since the 9/11 Commission made recommendations for protecting this country against terrorists. The number of recommendations adopted by your Congress so far, nada!
Congress is on vacation. Enjoy yourselves.
COLLINS: All right, Jack. Thanks a lot.
Still to come this morning, the final showdown may be underway in the streets of Najaf. The very latest on a critical battle for control of Iraq.
Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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