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American Morning
CIA Reforms by Roberts Not Well Received; Interview with Sen. Pat Roberts; RNC Delegates Might Use McGreevey Scandal; Olympics Update
Aired August 24, 2004 - 08:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: A proposal to rebuild U.S. intelligence by tearing down the CIA brings s quick reaction in Washington.
This morning, we'll ask Senator Pat Roberts how far his plan would really go.
The homosexual affair of New Jersey Governor Jim McGreevey -- it's a state scandal and now perhaps an issue for the Republican convention.
And Amber Frey under cross-examination. We'll look at the defense's strategy as her testimony is set to resume -- all ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
COOPER: And good morning. I'm Bill Hemmer -- not really. I'm a pale imitation...
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Where are your glasses?
COOPER: ... Anderson Cooper -- if I was bigger and buffer, maybe! Bill, Soledad, and Heidi are all off this morning. Daryn Kagan and I are with you today.
KAGAN: A man can dream.
COOPER: I need Sanjay Gupta's help to help me...
KAGAN: So could a woman...
COOPER: ... a little stress and work out a little.
KAGAN: ... for that matter. Yes, they're all gone. We're here. Good morning.
Taking a look at some of the other stories we're working on this morning -- there is political news, not surprising, out there. A new poll just re-released -- actually released for the first time in the make-or-break state of Florida. Bill Schneider will be along looking at the new numbers. He'll tell us how the race is shaping up down there.
COOPER: You said shaping up? Was that an intimation that I need to shape up?
KAGAN: You look fantastic.
COOPER: It's all about me.
KAGAN: My friend -- you know Anderson Cooper?
COOPER: All right, we're going to look at a murder investigation in Sonoma County, California -- has horrified people there. Two camp counselors killed on a remote beach. They were shot while sleeping in sleeping bags. We're going to look at some new developments in that case this morning.
KAGAN: And Jack is here, as well.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Delightful little setup to tease "The Cafferty File."
Coming up in the file less than an hour, genetically engineered mice that can do things you absolutely will not believe, and we've come up with a really lame excuse to re-air the Janet Jackson video of the wardrobe malfunction from the Super Bowl.
COOPER: Oh, Lord. No!
CAFFERTY: We'll look at that again and tell you the reason why later.
COOPER: All right.
KAGAN: Speaking of shapes.
COOPER: Yes.
Let's go now to Carol Costello at the CNN Center with a look at what is happening in the news this morning. Good morning, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Anderson. Thank you.
Iraqi forces are now gathering around the Ali Imam Mosque in Najaf. Smoke is rising from the area. Fighting there has only intensified this morning. Iraqi officials say if Muqtada al-Sadr supporters do not leave the mosque, they will be "wiped out" -- that's a direct quote. Matthew Chance is with the U.S. Marines surrounding the shrine. He will join us in a half hour.
A military commission in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, begins the pretrial hearings for suspects designated as U.S. enemy combatants. Four men will be arraigned this week, including Australian David Hicks. His charges include attempted murder and conspiracy to commit war crimes. In about 30 minutes, we'll have details from CNN's Susan Candiotti on what is expected at today's hearings.
A new round of pretrial hearings into the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison now underway in Mannheim, Germany. Military sources say Staff Sergeant Ivan "Chip" Frederick will enter a guilty plea today to at least one of the charges against him. This, as the Pentagon is set to release a new report expected to at least partly blame military leaders for the abuses. CNN's Barbara Starr has reaction from the Pentagon in the next hour.
And oh boy, a real mess on a major U.S. interstate. Torrential rain saturated parts of south Texas Monday. The high waters closed a nine-mile stretch of Interstate 35. It stranded drivers and forced some residents from their homes. Ten to 15 inches of rain fell in just a matter of hours.
So, Chad, tell us it's over?
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: And a nice, balmy 79 in New York City, and let's head back there now and Daryn.
KAGAN: We will take it. Carol, thank you for that.
Let's talk about the CIA. The former head of that agency, George Tenet, calling a proposal to break up the agency, quote, "a dangerous misunderstanding of the business of intelligence."
David Ensor reports now that the reforms that were suggested by Senator Pat Roberts on Sunday hit a wall of resistance at the CIA yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Serving CIA officials are calling the plan, quote, "reckless" and predicting it would hurt national security. One former agency official predicts it would also hurt morale.
JACK DEVINE, FMR. CIA OFFICIAL: It is going to be very demoralizing. We are going to lose people. We are going to not have some of the best and brightest apply to us. And it's like taking the Marine Corps and saying now we're going to call you something else.
It is not a trivial event, and I caution to do this, to think long and hard about the full implications of it.
ENSOR: Former Director of Central Intelligence George Tenet was even tougher on the proposal, calling it, quote, "yet another episode in the mad rush to rearrange wiring diagrams in an attempt to be seen as doing something."
"It is time," Tenet said, "for someone to say stop."
But Roberts says he wanted to lay down a marker -- a plan to enact the proposals of the 9/11 Commission. The plan would fold the other big intelligence agencies under a National Intelligence Director, taking the huge national security agency and others out from under the Pentagon's wing in terms of budget and personnel. Much depends on the view of President Bush. Standing next to a less than enthusiastic Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, he was non-commit. GEORGE W. BUSH (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Senator Roberts is a good, thoughtful guy. He came up with an idea, and we'll look at it. We'll take a look at it and determine, you know, whether or not it works or not.
ENSOR (on camera): Hardly a ringing endorsement, but Roberts hopes to build a coalition for the kind of dramatic change he's proposing, starting with the families of the 9/11 victims. Interestingly, his proposal got a quick positive comment, too, from the Kerry campaign.
David Ensor, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: The man at the center of the storm, Republican Senator Pat Roberts, chairman of the Intelligence Committee, joins me now from Washington.
Senator, good morning. Thanks for being with us here.
SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R-KS), CHMN., INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Well, good morning, good morning.
I hope I'm not -- I just hope I'm not in the center of that storm in Texas.
KAGAN: Yes. Absolutely.
But you do have plenty of storms brewing right there on Capitol Hill.
Let's focus on your plan right now to split the CIA into three parts, abolish the CIA director. Briefly, sir, how do you really think that's going to make the country safer?
ROBERTS: Well, I noticed that George Tenet made a very strong statement. He's a good friend of mine, or at least I hope he's still a good friend of mine, and nothing hurts the truth so much as stretching it.
And we're not going to try to demolish the CIA. We're not going to do away with the CIA. Every time George and other people -- the very same spokesman that you heard from -- have come before the committee, they want more authority. They want more funding. They want more priority funding.
It's always a battle. So what this plan does is say, OK, we're going to realign all the people that work for the CIA under a national intelligence director, and they will get more authority. They will get a more enhanced capability to do the good job of protecting our nation.
Nobody at the CIA, at Langley, changes a desk. Nobody leaves. The only thing that you do is you realign under a different authority. All of those people out in the field who are laying their jobs on the line -- pardon me -- their lives on the line, they stay exactly where they are except all of the complaints that we have heard ever since I've been on the committee would be fixed by a new authority that could have them -- give them a better enhanced capability.
KAGAN: And Senator, these friends, as you call them, are using words saying your plan is dangerous, reckless, that you don't understand the intelligence business. I think you heard the president's soundbyte. Noncommittal I think would be generous in describing what the president had to say. Are you surprised by the response?
ROBERTS: He said I was a nice, gentle kind guy, and he's going to take a look at it.
KAGAN: Which I'm sure you are, but what about the response to your plan?
ROBERTS: Well, the response to the plan is, I got a call from Condi Rice, and she is in charge of that. And we shared our views. And they have the bill.
This is not written in stone. This didn't come down from "Mount Intelligence" on a tablet. We've got a lot of brick backs, a lot of criticism.
There have been 38 attempts to reform the Intelligence Committee ever since 1949. We have a narrow window of opportunity now to achieve reform. We stepped back all the way from the trees and said, all right, how would you really try to put together an intelligence service that reflects the national security threats?
Don't pay any attention to boxes or to agencies or to turf or to committees. How would you do this? And we lined it up four different ways: one in terms of collection; one in terms of analyzing that collection; one in terms of the research and acquisition in regards to technology; and then we leave to the secretary of defense the tactical intelligence that the war fighter must have.
I don't think that's drastic. We have eight senators who think that we should have planted the flag and said, let's get this moving, let's just don't argue during these particular days that we have left in this session. The wives don't want that. The families don't want that, 9/11 Commission doesn't want that.
Thirty-eight times we've failed. Let's try to get it done this time.
KAGAN: This intelligence director position, as I understand it, what you propose goes above and beyond what the 9/11 Commission is recommending. Why did you think that was necessary?
ROBERTS: I don't know above and beyond. You have a chart on the 9/11 book -- I should have brought it with me, I think it's on page 413, it's a very similar chart.
We have talked to the members of the 9/11 Commission. We'll know by Wednesday whether or not they think it's favorable or not. We're talking with the wives and the victims and their families -- or the families of the victims as of this afternoon.
I am reaching out to Democrats. We thought we should plant the flag. I do regret that the timing is so short that we could not gather everybody in, but we didn't have time for that. So we had to set a marker; we did set a marker for what I consider to be real reform.
You don't want to get into a situation where the Democrats on one side just say, "We're going to introduce a bill and it's the 41 recommendations of the 9/11 Commission." That's not a bill. That's not even a plan. All that is, is a list.
And on the other side, you have the administration saying, "Well, OK, we're just going to do something on an executive basis." That isn't it either.
Now, we can argue about that all the way into a lame duck session of Congress, or you can have a window of opportunity to try for real reform. That's what we tried to do.
If people don't like it, if people have suggestions, quit hollering about it, come to me with suggestions and improvements.
KAGAN: And when you look eye to eye with those families of the victims and you are honest with them about what change will take place with these agencies, with Congress, what do you tell them?
ROBERTS: I tell them that we are for real reform for national security so that something like 9/11 will be less likely to happen in the future. And you look them in the eye, and you shoot straight with them, and I think that's what they appreciate. That's what we're going to do this afternoon.
KAGAN: Senator Pat Roberts from Kansas. Thank you for your time, sir.
ROBERTS: Yes, ma'am.
KAGAN: More fallout in the war of words over John Kerry's war service. Former Senator Bob Dole, who criticized Senator Kerry on CNN, said Senator Kerry called him yesterday, and told him he was disappointed by Dole's comments belittling the wounds Kerry suffered during the Vietnam War.
Here what Dole told CNN yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOB DOLE, FMR. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You're talking about the presidential race, and I tweaked him a little on the Purple Hearts, but he said he didn't draw any disability, that he maybe could have because of his hearing, and he didn't spend any time in a hospital, but I wasn't trying to be mean spirited. I was just trying to say all of these guys on the other side just can't be Republican liars. (END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: Well, along with three Purple Hearts, Senator Kerry won a Bronze Star, and a Silver Star for his service in Vietnam. Kerry has called on the Bush campaign to denounce recent ads by Swift Boat Veterans.
Lots more still to come here on AMERICAN MORNING, including more campaign coverage, this time focusing on the state that gave Democrats headaches in 2000.
And things are starting to get really interesting in the Sunshine State.
COOPER: Senior political analyst Bill Schneider will join us with that.
KAGAN: Plus, Amber Frey takes the stand. Again, Mark Geragos was expected to throw some legal punches. Instead, he started at least, with a punchline. A line report coming up from California.
And New Jersey Governor Jim McGreevey says he is resigning, because of his sex scandal, but critics say that's just cover for a host of other things going on there. We'll take a look at that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, could the McGreevey sex scandal sway New Jersey towards President Bush in November? In the last three presidential elections, the state went to the Democrats. Delegates at next week's Republican convention, however, will likely try to use this scandal to their advantage.
Earlier this month, Governor McGreevey admitted to an extramarital homosexual affair. He also announced he'll leave office in November.
Joining me now with more on this story, newspaper political columnist Herb Jackson of "The Record" of Bergen County, New Jersey.
Herb, thanks for being with us.
HERB JACKSON, POL. COLUMNIST, "THE RECORD": Good morning. How are you're doing?
COOPER: I know it's a little early for you. We do appreciate it, though.
There's so much to talk about this, but was the larger story really missed on this? I mean, there was so much focus on the sex scandal, on the admission that he was gay, or gay Americans he said, and not so much on Golan Cipel, and the fact that he was hired to be this guy's homeland security advisor?
JACKSON: That's what I think. If you look of what led to the decision of resigning, they knew, or they believed they were about to be sued by Golan. They believed that the lawsuit was going to name that the governor sexually harassed him, in which case there would be now publishable information that would accuse the governor of being gay.
And it would be coming from a guy that the governor took a lot of heat for in 2002, for naming as his chief advisor on homeland security. We had a -- New Jersey had a whole, you know, public safety apparatus, office of counterterrorism, where there was a career prosecutor in charge, but this was the liaison in the governor's office to deal with that office.
COOPER: And a highly paid one, $110,000.
JACKSON: $110,00, and he was only in that job for about six weeks. My paper, two my colleagues in Trenton bureau, covered him and questioned his qualification, and it became a furor. Republican legislators wanted the guy to come in and answer questions in a committee meeting.
COOPER: And what did they respond? I mean, how did they say this guy was qualified?
JACKSON: Well, they said he had served in the Israeli military and lived in the Middle East, and people who live in the Middle East deal with terrorism every day and they know about it.
COOPER: Wait, that was really their answer?
JACKSON: Yes. And they also said that he had had extensive training in it, which certainly didn't seem to follow through when people looked into it. So eventually, it was about March, the first three months of his administration, they moved him to just a special advisor to the governor, and that continued to be a question of, what is this guy doing for the government? And they never had an answer for that. He's advising the governor. We're not going to tell you what.
COOPER: How much of this do you think is going to come into play at the Republican convention among New Jersey delegates?
JACKSON: Well, the Republicans are out of power in every place in New Jersey -- the lost in the legislature, they lost the governor's office, they lost both senate Seats. They're really on the outs. So they've been preparing to run against Jim McGreevey for the past two, three years.
They were all set for 2005 to beat McGreevey to the ground, for not only the hiring of Cipal -- which we didn't have a whole lot of information about -- but other scandals in the administration...
COOPER: Right, there were a lot of them.
JACKSON: ... his fund-raisers were -- you know, his chief contributor was just sentenced. Just pleaded guilty to campaign finance violations and obstructing justice... COOPER: Right, and hiring a prostitute and all sorts of things.
JACKSON: And he's also got two top aides who are still under investigation for running a business and then selling it right before they joined his administration for an enormous profit. And the question was whether the people who bought that business from them were buying influence with the administration. And ...
COOPER: But do you think -- I mean, you said they were going to be going after him -- I mean, how does this affect what happens next?
JACKSON: Well, I think, just to a degree, it actually defuses what they could do, though. Because they were getting ready to attack Jim McGreevey and the Democrats would all have had to defend Jim McGreevey because he was their standard bearer.
Now, no one's going to be defending Jim McGreevey. And it'll be interesting to see what the Republicans can run against. We saw this in New Jersey in 2002. They were all ready to go after Bob Torricelli, the senator, for his ethical lapses, and then suddenly, Torricelli drops out.
The Republicans spent two weeks arguing that it's not fair that Torricelli dropped out and got to replace him. And then suddenly, they had to run against Frank Lautenberg, and they lost.
COOPER: It'll be fascinating to see what happens. Herb Jackson, it was good to meet you, with "The Record" of Bergen County, New Jersey.
JACKSON: Same here. Thank you.
COOPER: Well, be sure to join us tomorrow on AMERICAN MORNING. U.S. Senator from New Jersey, Jon Corzine, will be here. He hasn't ruled out a run for governor if McGreevey steps down before November. We'll talk to him about that -- Daryn?
KAGAN: All right, Anderson, thank you for that.
Still to come, the odds are stacked against you if you're fighting high blood pressure. So, what can you do if you're fighting what seems like an impossible battle. We are paging Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
And another AMERICAN MORNING Olympics challenge. Taking a look at this: At the 1920 Games in Antwerp, Swedish shooter Oscar Swahn set an Olympics record simply by competing. What record did he set?
That answer and our live report from Athens when we return. Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: All right. We gave you a few minutes to think about it. What Olympics record did Swedish shooter Oscar Swahn set at the 1920 Games in Antwerp simply by competing? Jack is just bursting at the seams. So, I am going to tell you the answer here. He is the oldest ever Olympian -- 72 years, 280 days old. The youngest, in case you're wondering, ever Olympian was Greek gymnast Dimitrios Loundras. He competed in the 1896 Athens Olympics at the age of 10.
COOPER: Ten?
KAGAN: Only 10. I think there's an age limit now.
COOPER: What was he doing? Do we know?
KAGAN: Gymnastics.
COOPER: Oh, gymnastics. I didn't see that part. At 10? Wow!
CAFFERTY: I love these. I think we should keep doing Olympic quizzes even after the Olympics are over, because they're cool. I like these.
KAGAN: Just for you.
Well, the Olympics do go on. A lot more medals for Team USA yesterday in Athens, including a major win for American men in track and field. Mark McKay joining us live from Athens with more. Mark, good morning.
MARK MCKAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Daryn. A blustery Tuesday afternoon here in Athens affecting some events, but not expected to affect the excitement tonight at Olympic Stadium.
Now, last night, as you mentioned, yes, a clean sweep for the U.S. Team in the men's 400 meters. Jeremy Wariner became the sixth straight American to win the 400-meter Olympic title. He turned a personal best time and beat his U.S. teammates Otis Harris and Derrick Brew to the finish line.
Wisconsin native Paul Hamm won the all-around gymnastic title over weekend under a cloud. He was the silver medal winner in the men's high bar event last night, bus not without controversy. What's new for Hamm? The crowd booed for about 10 minutes at what they perceived was a low score for 12-time Olympic medal winner Alexei Nemov. The Russian ended up finished out of the medals. His Olympic committee plans -- what else -- a protest.
Defending gold medalist Rulon Gardner -- remember that name from the Sydney Games? He won his first two bouts in Greco-Roman wrestling here in Athens. He will be in the semifinals if he wins a third match a little later today.
Of course, Daryn, the big story that we'll be following as afternoon turns into night is whether the Iraqi football side can move into the gold medal match on the soccer pitch (ph). Of course, we're talking Iraq and Paraguay. They meet at 9:00 local time tonight. A lot of interest in that one.
KAGAN: All right. Mark McKay from Athens, thank you.
COOPER: And let's check in with our own Olympian, Jack Cafferty.
CAFFERTY: We've got a judging controversy he alluded to in his report. The judges now admit that they made a mistake when they were judging the all-around men's gymnastic competition, and they missed some kind of a little boo-boo that the South Korean guy made. And if they'd caught it -- maybe it's the other way around.
Paul Hamm's gold medal in the all-around men's gymnastic thing is in doubt because the judges made an error that at the time would have put the South Korean gymnast into first place. Whether he'd go on to win or not, I don't know.
KAGAN: Very well said. Very well said.
CAFFERTY: Just took a long time to get there, didn't it?
Doug in Stoney Creek, Ontario: "Keep the gold medal and Paul Hamm will be a trivia question in years to come. Give it back, and he's remembered for his integrity and honesty forever.
Jane in Lancaster, Ohio: "Gymnastics should be judged by former medalists. They know how to judge because of their background in performing. This would be fair to all of the participants."
Richard in Orlando: "From what I understand, South Korea had a certain amount of time to contest the outcome of the judge's decision on any athlete. The timeline ran out. So, whether they like it or not, the U.S. gymnast has every right to keep his gold medal."
And Mary in Valparaiso, Indiana: "Great way for the kids to learn how to participate in sports. If you feel you should have won, whine, cry, and demand the other side give up what they won -- or demand that you get first prize as well. I no longer watch the Olympics for this reason."
So there.
KAGAN: There you go. Thank you. Thank you, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Sure. Any time.
KAGAN: More just ahead.
Also still to come, the U.S. Military is set to do something it has not done since World War II. A live report from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, is ahead.
Plus, the cross-examination of Amber Frey resumes today. Yesterday, her testimony focused on a big lie that she was ready to tell Scott Peterson. What was it? A live report is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired August 24, 2004 - 08:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: A proposal to rebuild U.S. intelligence by tearing down the CIA brings s quick reaction in Washington.
This morning, we'll ask Senator Pat Roberts how far his plan would really go.
The homosexual affair of New Jersey Governor Jim McGreevey -- it's a state scandal and now perhaps an issue for the Republican convention.
And Amber Frey under cross-examination. We'll look at the defense's strategy as her testimony is set to resume -- all ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
COOPER: And good morning. I'm Bill Hemmer -- not really. I'm a pale imitation...
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Where are your glasses?
COOPER: ... Anderson Cooper -- if I was bigger and buffer, maybe! Bill, Soledad, and Heidi are all off this morning. Daryn Kagan and I are with you today.
KAGAN: A man can dream.
COOPER: I need Sanjay Gupta's help to help me...
KAGAN: So could a woman...
COOPER: ... a little stress and work out a little.
KAGAN: ... for that matter. Yes, they're all gone. We're here. Good morning.
Taking a look at some of the other stories we're working on this morning -- there is political news, not surprising, out there. A new poll just re-released -- actually released for the first time in the make-or-break state of Florida. Bill Schneider will be along looking at the new numbers. He'll tell us how the race is shaping up down there.
COOPER: You said shaping up? Was that an intimation that I need to shape up?
KAGAN: You look fantastic.
COOPER: It's all about me.
KAGAN: My friend -- you know Anderson Cooper?
COOPER: All right, we're going to look at a murder investigation in Sonoma County, California -- has horrified people there. Two camp counselors killed on a remote beach. They were shot while sleeping in sleeping bags. We're going to look at some new developments in that case this morning.
KAGAN: And Jack is here, as well.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Delightful little setup to tease "The Cafferty File."
Coming up in the file less than an hour, genetically engineered mice that can do things you absolutely will not believe, and we've come up with a really lame excuse to re-air the Janet Jackson video of the wardrobe malfunction from the Super Bowl.
COOPER: Oh, Lord. No!
CAFFERTY: We'll look at that again and tell you the reason why later.
COOPER: All right.
KAGAN: Speaking of shapes.
COOPER: Yes.
Let's go now to Carol Costello at the CNN Center with a look at what is happening in the news this morning. Good morning, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Anderson. Thank you.
Iraqi forces are now gathering around the Ali Imam Mosque in Najaf. Smoke is rising from the area. Fighting there has only intensified this morning. Iraqi officials say if Muqtada al-Sadr supporters do not leave the mosque, they will be "wiped out" -- that's a direct quote. Matthew Chance is with the U.S. Marines surrounding the shrine. He will join us in a half hour.
A military commission in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, begins the pretrial hearings for suspects designated as U.S. enemy combatants. Four men will be arraigned this week, including Australian David Hicks. His charges include attempted murder and conspiracy to commit war crimes. In about 30 minutes, we'll have details from CNN's Susan Candiotti on what is expected at today's hearings.
A new round of pretrial hearings into the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison now underway in Mannheim, Germany. Military sources say Staff Sergeant Ivan "Chip" Frederick will enter a guilty plea today to at least one of the charges against him. This, as the Pentagon is set to release a new report expected to at least partly blame military leaders for the abuses. CNN's Barbara Starr has reaction from the Pentagon in the next hour.
And oh boy, a real mess on a major U.S. interstate. Torrential rain saturated parts of south Texas Monday. The high waters closed a nine-mile stretch of Interstate 35. It stranded drivers and forced some residents from their homes. Ten to 15 inches of rain fell in just a matter of hours.
So, Chad, tell us it's over?
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: And a nice, balmy 79 in New York City, and let's head back there now and Daryn.
KAGAN: We will take it. Carol, thank you for that.
Let's talk about the CIA. The former head of that agency, George Tenet, calling a proposal to break up the agency, quote, "a dangerous misunderstanding of the business of intelligence."
David Ensor reports now that the reforms that were suggested by Senator Pat Roberts on Sunday hit a wall of resistance at the CIA yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Serving CIA officials are calling the plan, quote, "reckless" and predicting it would hurt national security. One former agency official predicts it would also hurt morale.
JACK DEVINE, FMR. CIA OFFICIAL: It is going to be very demoralizing. We are going to lose people. We are going to not have some of the best and brightest apply to us. And it's like taking the Marine Corps and saying now we're going to call you something else.
It is not a trivial event, and I caution to do this, to think long and hard about the full implications of it.
ENSOR: Former Director of Central Intelligence George Tenet was even tougher on the proposal, calling it, quote, "yet another episode in the mad rush to rearrange wiring diagrams in an attempt to be seen as doing something."
"It is time," Tenet said, "for someone to say stop."
But Roberts says he wanted to lay down a marker -- a plan to enact the proposals of the 9/11 Commission. The plan would fold the other big intelligence agencies under a National Intelligence Director, taking the huge national security agency and others out from under the Pentagon's wing in terms of budget and personnel. Much depends on the view of President Bush. Standing next to a less than enthusiastic Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, he was non-commit. GEORGE W. BUSH (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Senator Roberts is a good, thoughtful guy. He came up with an idea, and we'll look at it. We'll take a look at it and determine, you know, whether or not it works or not.
ENSOR (on camera): Hardly a ringing endorsement, but Roberts hopes to build a coalition for the kind of dramatic change he's proposing, starting with the families of the 9/11 victims. Interestingly, his proposal got a quick positive comment, too, from the Kerry campaign.
David Ensor, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: The man at the center of the storm, Republican Senator Pat Roberts, chairman of the Intelligence Committee, joins me now from Washington.
Senator, good morning. Thanks for being with us here.
SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R-KS), CHMN., INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Well, good morning, good morning.
I hope I'm not -- I just hope I'm not in the center of that storm in Texas.
KAGAN: Yes. Absolutely.
But you do have plenty of storms brewing right there on Capitol Hill.
Let's focus on your plan right now to split the CIA into three parts, abolish the CIA director. Briefly, sir, how do you really think that's going to make the country safer?
ROBERTS: Well, I noticed that George Tenet made a very strong statement. He's a good friend of mine, or at least I hope he's still a good friend of mine, and nothing hurts the truth so much as stretching it.
And we're not going to try to demolish the CIA. We're not going to do away with the CIA. Every time George and other people -- the very same spokesman that you heard from -- have come before the committee, they want more authority. They want more funding. They want more priority funding.
It's always a battle. So what this plan does is say, OK, we're going to realign all the people that work for the CIA under a national intelligence director, and they will get more authority. They will get a more enhanced capability to do the good job of protecting our nation.
Nobody at the CIA, at Langley, changes a desk. Nobody leaves. The only thing that you do is you realign under a different authority. All of those people out in the field who are laying their jobs on the line -- pardon me -- their lives on the line, they stay exactly where they are except all of the complaints that we have heard ever since I've been on the committee would be fixed by a new authority that could have them -- give them a better enhanced capability.
KAGAN: And Senator, these friends, as you call them, are using words saying your plan is dangerous, reckless, that you don't understand the intelligence business. I think you heard the president's soundbyte. Noncommittal I think would be generous in describing what the president had to say. Are you surprised by the response?
ROBERTS: He said I was a nice, gentle kind guy, and he's going to take a look at it.
KAGAN: Which I'm sure you are, but what about the response to your plan?
ROBERTS: Well, the response to the plan is, I got a call from Condi Rice, and she is in charge of that. And we shared our views. And they have the bill.
This is not written in stone. This didn't come down from "Mount Intelligence" on a tablet. We've got a lot of brick backs, a lot of criticism.
There have been 38 attempts to reform the Intelligence Committee ever since 1949. We have a narrow window of opportunity now to achieve reform. We stepped back all the way from the trees and said, all right, how would you really try to put together an intelligence service that reflects the national security threats?
Don't pay any attention to boxes or to agencies or to turf or to committees. How would you do this? And we lined it up four different ways: one in terms of collection; one in terms of analyzing that collection; one in terms of the research and acquisition in regards to technology; and then we leave to the secretary of defense the tactical intelligence that the war fighter must have.
I don't think that's drastic. We have eight senators who think that we should have planted the flag and said, let's get this moving, let's just don't argue during these particular days that we have left in this session. The wives don't want that. The families don't want that, 9/11 Commission doesn't want that.
Thirty-eight times we've failed. Let's try to get it done this time.
KAGAN: This intelligence director position, as I understand it, what you propose goes above and beyond what the 9/11 Commission is recommending. Why did you think that was necessary?
ROBERTS: I don't know above and beyond. You have a chart on the 9/11 book -- I should have brought it with me, I think it's on page 413, it's a very similar chart.
We have talked to the members of the 9/11 Commission. We'll know by Wednesday whether or not they think it's favorable or not. We're talking with the wives and the victims and their families -- or the families of the victims as of this afternoon.
I am reaching out to Democrats. We thought we should plant the flag. I do regret that the timing is so short that we could not gather everybody in, but we didn't have time for that. So we had to set a marker; we did set a marker for what I consider to be real reform.
You don't want to get into a situation where the Democrats on one side just say, "We're going to introduce a bill and it's the 41 recommendations of the 9/11 Commission." That's not a bill. That's not even a plan. All that is, is a list.
And on the other side, you have the administration saying, "Well, OK, we're just going to do something on an executive basis." That isn't it either.
Now, we can argue about that all the way into a lame duck session of Congress, or you can have a window of opportunity to try for real reform. That's what we tried to do.
If people don't like it, if people have suggestions, quit hollering about it, come to me with suggestions and improvements.
KAGAN: And when you look eye to eye with those families of the victims and you are honest with them about what change will take place with these agencies, with Congress, what do you tell them?
ROBERTS: I tell them that we are for real reform for national security so that something like 9/11 will be less likely to happen in the future. And you look them in the eye, and you shoot straight with them, and I think that's what they appreciate. That's what we're going to do this afternoon.
KAGAN: Senator Pat Roberts from Kansas. Thank you for your time, sir.
ROBERTS: Yes, ma'am.
KAGAN: More fallout in the war of words over John Kerry's war service. Former Senator Bob Dole, who criticized Senator Kerry on CNN, said Senator Kerry called him yesterday, and told him he was disappointed by Dole's comments belittling the wounds Kerry suffered during the Vietnam War.
Here what Dole told CNN yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOB DOLE, FMR. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You're talking about the presidential race, and I tweaked him a little on the Purple Hearts, but he said he didn't draw any disability, that he maybe could have because of his hearing, and he didn't spend any time in a hospital, but I wasn't trying to be mean spirited. I was just trying to say all of these guys on the other side just can't be Republican liars. (END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: Well, along with three Purple Hearts, Senator Kerry won a Bronze Star, and a Silver Star for his service in Vietnam. Kerry has called on the Bush campaign to denounce recent ads by Swift Boat Veterans.
Lots more still to come here on AMERICAN MORNING, including more campaign coverage, this time focusing on the state that gave Democrats headaches in 2000.
And things are starting to get really interesting in the Sunshine State.
COOPER: Senior political analyst Bill Schneider will join us with that.
KAGAN: Plus, Amber Frey takes the stand. Again, Mark Geragos was expected to throw some legal punches. Instead, he started at least, with a punchline. A line report coming up from California.
And New Jersey Governor Jim McGreevey says he is resigning, because of his sex scandal, but critics say that's just cover for a host of other things going on there. We'll take a look at that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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COOPER: Well, could the McGreevey sex scandal sway New Jersey towards President Bush in November? In the last three presidential elections, the state went to the Democrats. Delegates at next week's Republican convention, however, will likely try to use this scandal to their advantage.
Earlier this month, Governor McGreevey admitted to an extramarital homosexual affair. He also announced he'll leave office in November.
Joining me now with more on this story, newspaper political columnist Herb Jackson of "The Record" of Bergen County, New Jersey.
Herb, thanks for being with us.
HERB JACKSON, POL. COLUMNIST, "THE RECORD": Good morning. How are you're doing?
COOPER: I know it's a little early for you. We do appreciate it, though.
There's so much to talk about this, but was the larger story really missed on this? I mean, there was so much focus on the sex scandal, on the admission that he was gay, or gay Americans he said, and not so much on Golan Cipel, and the fact that he was hired to be this guy's homeland security advisor?
JACKSON: That's what I think. If you look of what led to the decision of resigning, they knew, or they believed they were about to be sued by Golan. They believed that the lawsuit was going to name that the governor sexually harassed him, in which case there would be now publishable information that would accuse the governor of being gay.
And it would be coming from a guy that the governor took a lot of heat for in 2002, for naming as his chief advisor on homeland security. We had a -- New Jersey had a whole, you know, public safety apparatus, office of counterterrorism, where there was a career prosecutor in charge, but this was the liaison in the governor's office to deal with that office.
COOPER: And a highly paid one, $110,000.
JACKSON: $110,00, and he was only in that job for about six weeks. My paper, two my colleagues in Trenton bureau, covered him and questioned his qualification, and it became a furor. Republican legislators wanted the guy to come in and answer questions in a committee meeting.
COOPER: And what did they respond? I mean, how did they say this guy was qualified?
JACKSON: Well, they said he had served in the Israeli military and lived in the Middle East, and people who live in the Middle East deal with terrorism every day and they know about it.
COOPER: Wait, that was really their answer?
JACKSON: Yes. And they also said that he had had extensive training in it, which certainly didn't seem to follow through when people looked into it. So eventually, it was about March, the first three months of his administration, they moved him to just a special advisor to the governor, and that continued to be a question of, what is this guy doing for the government? And they never had an answer for that. He's advising the governor. We're not going to tell you what.
COOPER: How much of this do you think is going to come into play at the Republican convention among New Jersey delegates?
JACKSON: Well, the Republicans are out of power in every place in New Jersey -- the lost in the legislature, they lost the governor's office, they lost both senate Seats. They're really on the outs. So they've been preparing to run against Jim McGreevey for the past two, three years.
They were all set for 2005 to beat McGreevey to the ground, for not only the hiring of Cipal -- which we didn't have a whole lot of information about -- but other scandals in the administration...
COOPER: Right, there were a lot of them.
JACKSON: ... his fund-raisers were -- you know, his chief contributor was just sentenced. Just pleaded guilty to campaign finance violations and obstructing justice... COOPER: Right, and hiring a prostitute and all sorts of things.
JACKSON: And he's also got two top aides who are still under investigation for running a business and then selling it right before they joined his administration for an enormous profit. And the question was whether the people who bought that business from them were buying influence with the administration. And ...
COOPER: But do you think -- I mean, you said they were going to be going after him -- I mean, how does this affect what happens next?
JACKSON: Well, I think, just to a degree, it actually defuses what they could do, though. Because they were getting ready to attack Jim McGreevey and the Democrats would all have had to defend Jim McGreevey because he was their standard bearer.
Now, no one's going to be defending Jim McGreevey. And it'll be interesting to see what the Republicans can run against. We saw this in New Jersey in 2002. They were all ready to go after Bob Torricelli, the senator, for his ethical lapses, and then suddenly, Torricelli drops out.
The Republicans spent two weeks arguing that it's not fair that Torricelli dropped out and got to replace him. And then suddenly, they had to run against Frank Lautenberg, and they lost.
COOPER: It'll be fascinating to see what happens. Herb Jackson, it was good to meet you, with "The Record" of Bergen County, New Jersey.
JACKSON: Same here. Thank you.
COOPER: Well, be sure to join us tomorrow on AMERICAN MORNING. U.S. Senator from New Jersey, Jon Corzine, will be here. He hasn't ruled out a run for governor if McGreevey steps down before November. We'll talk to him about that -- Daryn?
KAGAN: All right, Anderson, thank you for that.
Still to come, the odds are stacked against you if you're fighting high blood pressure. So, what can you do if you're fighting what seems like an impossible battle. We are paging Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
And another AMERICAN MORNING Olympics challenge. Taking a look at this: At the 1920 Games in Antwerp, Swedish shooter Oscar Swahn set an Olympics record simply by competing. What record did he set?
That answer and our live report from Athens when we return. Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: All right. We gave you a few minutes to think about it. What Olympics record did Swedish shooter Oscar Swahn set at the 1920 Games in Antwerp simply by competing? Jack is just bursting at the seams. So, I am going to tell you the answer here. He is the oldest ever Olympian -- 72 years, 280 days old. The youngest, in case you're wondering, ever Olympian was Greek gymnast Dimitrios Loundras. He competed in the 1896 Athens Olympics at the age of 10.
COOPER: Ten?
KAGAN: Only 10. I think there's an age limit now.
COOPER: What was he doing? Do we know?
KAGAN: Gymnastics.
COOPER: Oh, gymnastics. I didn't see that part. At 10? Wow!
CAFFERTY: I love these. I think we should keep doing Olympic quizzes even after the Olympics are over, because they're cool. I like these.
KAGAN: Just for you.
Well, the Olympics do go on. A lot more medals for Team USA yesterday in Athens, including a major win for American men in track and field. Mark McKay joining us live from Athens with more. Mark, good morning.
MARK MCKAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Daryn. A blustery Tuesday afternoon here in Athens affecting some events, but not expected to affect the excitement tonight at Olympic Stadium.
Now, last night, as you mentioned, yes, a clean sweep for the U.S. Team in the men's 400 meters. Jeremy Wariner became the sixth straight American to win the 400-meter Olympic title. He turned a personal best time and beat his U.S. teammates Otis Harris and Derrick Brew to the finish line.
Wisconsin native Paul Hamm won the all-around gymnastic title over weekend under a cloud. He was the silver medal winner in the men's high bar event last night, bus not without controversy. What's new for Hamm? The crowd booed for about 10 minutes at what they perceived was a low score for 12-time Olympic medal winner Alexei Nemov. The Russian ended up finished out of the medals. His Olympic committee plans -- what else -- a protest.
Defending gold medalist Rulon Gardner -- remember that name from the Sydney Games? He won his first two bouts in Greco-Roman wrestling here in Athens. He will be in the semifinals if he wins a third match a little later today.
Of course, Daryn, the big story that we'll be following as afternoon turns into night is whether the Iraqi football side can move into the gold medal match on the soccer pitch (ph). Of course, we're talking Iraq and Paraguay. They meet at 9:00 local time tonight. A lot of interest in that one.
KAGAN: All right. Mark McKay from Athens, thank you.
COOPER: And let's check in with our own Olympian, Jack Cafferty.
CAFFERTY: We've got a judging controversy he alluded to in his report. The judges now admit that they made a mistake when they were judging the all-around men's gymnastic competition, and they missed some kind of a little boo-boo that the South Korean guy made. And if they'd caught it -- maybe it's the other way around.
Paul Hamm's gold medal in the all-around men's gymnastic thing is in doubt because the judges made an error that at the time would have put the South Korean gymnast into first place. Whether he'd go on to win or not, I don't know.
KAGAN: Very well said. Very well said.
CAFFERTY: Just took a long time to get there, didn't it?
Doug in Stoney Creek, Ontario: "Keep the gold medal and Paul Hamm will be a trivia question in years to come. Give it back, and he's remembered for his integrity and honesty forever.
Jane in Lancaster, Ohio: "Gymnastics should be judged by former medalists. They know how to judge because of their background in performing. This would be fair to all of the participants."
Richard in Orlando: "From what I understand, South Korea had a certain amount of time to contest the outcome of the judge's decision on any athlete. The timeline ran out. So, whether they like it or not, the U.S. gymnast has every right to keep his gold medal."
And Mary in Valparaiso, Indiana: "Great way for the kids to learn how to participate in sports. If you feel you should have won, whine, cry, and demand the other side give up what they won -- or demand that you get first prize as well. I no longer watch the Olympics for this reason."
So there.
KAGAN: There you go. Thank you. Thank you, Jack.
CAFFERTY: Sure. Any time.
KAGAN: More just ahead.
Also still to come, the U.S. Military is set to do something it has not done since World War II. A live report from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, is ahead.
Plus, the cross-examination of Amber Frey resumes today. Yesterday, her testimony focused on a big lie that she was ready to tell Scott Peterson. What was it? A live report is coming up.
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