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American Morning
Najaf Demonstrators Awaiting al-Sistani; Ben Ginsberg Interview; Musicians and Voting
Aired August 26, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news from Iraq at this hour -- the country's highest Shiite cleric and his followers head into the chaotic situation in Najaf. Explosive consequences, too -- dozen dozens are dead. A situation still unfolding at this hour.
A prominent lawyer in the president's campaign resigns. Today, Ben Ginsberg explains his involvement in the Swift Boat ads against John Kerry.
And three airports, two rivers, millions of people -- practically every prominent Republican in America -- the huge challenge of security at the convention starting Monday, on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
HEMMER: And good morning on a Thursday morning. I'm Bill Hemmer here in New York. Thanks for being with us today.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Heidi Collins in for Soledad.
We want to get to some of the other stories that we are following this morning.
After years of waiting, the legal wheels now turning for four detainees at Guantanamo Bay. Among them is Australian David Hicks, who yesterday saw his father for the first time in five years. In just a few minutes now, we're going to talk with Terry Hicks about the case against his son.
HEMMER: Also this hour, personal finance coach David Bach back with us today talking about buying a new car. It's not all about kicking the tires. Some decisions that many folks rush right through can wind up costing them a lot of money in the end. David Bach is here this hour.
COLLINS: And Jack Cafferty is here.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Indeed. Good morning.
So, we got all these demonstrators, protesters coming to New York City from all over the country. They want to carry their signs and march around and express their disapproval of the Republican policies, the administration's policies next week during the convention. They want to hold a demonstration, 250,000 people in Central Park. The city spent $20 million to replace the lawn a few years back. The judge says, no, you can't go and tear up the lawn. You can hold your demonstration somewhere else. Well, that's not good enough. They want to held it in Central Park.
The police are saying, you can't go to Central Park. It's a security issue. The judge hasn't given you a permit for the demonstration. Could get ugly. We'll take a look at it.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.
COLLINS: Could get very ugly. All right, Jack. Thank you.
We're going to go to Carol Costello now at the CNN Center with a look at what's now happening in the news this morning. Carol, good morning.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Heidi. Thank you.
A powerful bomb exploded this morning in a southern province of Thailand. At least one person was killed, some 23 other people were hurt. There has been no claim of responsibility as of yet. The region has been wracked by violence in recent months that officials blame on Islamic militants.
The recorders aboard two Russian jets have reportedly not given investigators any new clues about why those planes crashed within minutes of each other. That's according to officials cited this morning by the ITAR-TASS news agency. The aircraft fell off radar screens yesterday, killing all 89 people on board. Russian President Vladimir Putin has declared today a day of mourning.
A man who was questioned in connection with the shooting deaths of a young couple on a California beach has been released. The man told police he never met Lindsay Cutshall and her fiancee Jason Allen. Their bodies were found last week shot to death in their sleeping bags. The Sonoma County Sheriff's Office has posted a $10,000 reward to help solve the crime.
In Athens this morning, a Ukrainian rower has failed a drug test. She's been ejected from the Games now. She and her team have been stripped of their bronze medals in the quadruple sculls event. And within the half hour, the men's U.S. basketball team tips off against undefeated Spain in the quarterfinals. A win is the Americans' last hope for a medal.
Back to New York and you, Heidi.
COLLINS: All right, Carol. Thanks so much for that.
The stage is set is for a dramatic showdown in Najaf, Iraq, today. According to wire reports, Iraq's preeminent Shiite Muslim leader Ayatollah al-Sistani has now arrived in Najaf. He had been leading in a, quote, "rescue march" to the mosque, where the forces of radical Muqtada al-Sadr have been holed up for the past three weeks. Demonstrators had already then attacked several times today. We have CNN's Kianne Sadeq. She's in Najaf. She's joining us now by phone to give us the very latest. Kianne, what is happening there at this time?
KIANNE SADEQ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Carol (sic). Well, at this time, until now, we're hearing that people are still in the streets awaiting the arrival of Iraqi Shiite cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani to arrive and tell them what to do.
They began to make their way from Kufa to Najaf. On the way, on the streets going to Najaf, they were attacked by sniper fire -- great amounts of sniper fire. So, at this time, they are in the streets, awaiting the word or arrival of the Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani to see what the next step would be for them.
COLLINS: Kianne, I just -- I wanted to clarify something quickly. As I had said, when we tossed this to you, we understood that wire reports are showing that Ali al-Sistani has arrived. You say not yet.
Can you just tell us a little bit more about that for clarification?
SADEQ: Yes, well, I don't -- we don't have that specifically confirmed that the Grand Ayatollah was to return. We were told by the governor that he was to arrive here at about 7:00 p.m. this evening. So, we have no confirmation of whether he is here or not.
But what I can tell you is that the people, the demonstrators who are out there in a peaceful demonstration are awaiting his return in order to march in a peaceful demonstration to the old city of Najaf and the Imam Ali Shrine, where fighting has been taking place for quite some time now.
Back to you.
COLLINS: All right. Kianne Sadeq, thanks so much for clearing us up on that. We certainly appreciate it. We'll check in with you a little bit later on today and see how this situation develops -- Bill?
HEMMER: All right, Heidi. The Swift Boat controversy moved to Crawford, Texas, yesterday.
Vietnam veteran, former Senator Max Cleland tried to deliver President Bush a letter calling on him to condemn the recent ads attacking John Kerry. Cleland, though, was met instead by the Texas Land Commissioner, a Vietnam veteran himself, supporting President Bush, who had a letter of his own.
Here is what some of that conversation entailed in Crawford.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAX CLELAND, VIETNAM VETERAN, FMR. U.S. SENATOR: The question is: Where is George Bush's honor? The question is: Where is his shame? To attack a fellow veteran who has distinguished himself in combat, regardless of the political combat involved, is disgraceful.
JERRY PATTERSON, TEXAS LAND COMMISSIONER: Either we pull them all down or all get their piece. Either they all go down or they all have their piece.
It's not mutually exclusive; all veterans have a right to speak. But if we have 527s, you can't selectively say this one's good, that one's bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Neither letter, by the way, ended up in the hands of its intended recipient. All of this coming shortly after the chief outside counsel of the Bush campaign resigned because of his association with the Swift Boat Veterans.
Ben Ginsberg wrote in his resignation letter to the president, quoting now: "I have decided to resign as national counsel to your campaign to ensure that the giving of legal advice to decorated military veterans, which was entirely within the boundaries of the law, does not distract from the real issues upon which you and the country should be focusing," end quote.
Mr. Ginsberg, my guest now here in New York City in our studios at AMERICAN MORNING. Good morning to you.
You say "distracting" in that letter there. Who are you distracting?
BEN GINSBERG, FMR. CHIEF OUTSIDE COUNSEL FOR BUSH CAMPAIGN: Well, I'm afraid that the whole country was getting distracted from the president's forward-looking agenda that he wants to propose and have the country focus on it. Unfortunately, the kind of virulent street theater that Senator Cleland did yesterday in Crawford just contributes to that distraction.
HEMMER: Was this your decision, or did the campaign come to you and say, Mr. Ginsberg, it is time to exit?
GINSBERG: No, it was mine.
I mean, I'm -- unfortunately, the highest honor I've had as a lawyer is representing the president, but when the representation by a lawyer distracts from the agenda that the president wants to put forward, it's time to go.
HEMMER: There was attorney-client privilege throughout this entire story.
Did the White House know that you were holding essentially two jobs that related to this campaign?
GINSBERG: No, they didn't. I'm a lawyer in outside practice, and I have a number of clients. And lawyers don't tell one client what they're doing for the other client.
HEMMER: Here's what Democrats say, "The sudden resignation of Bush's top lawyer doesn't end the extensive web of connections between George Bush and the group trying to smear John Kerry's military record. In fact, it only confirms the extent of these connections" -- Mary Beth Cahill, her words from yesterday.
Your reaction to that on the Democratic side is what?
GINSBERG: I think that's blatant distortion from the fact that Senator Kerry made his military service the centerpiece of his convention.
There are a group of veterans who feel deeply and strongly that his actions -- particularly when he came back from Vietnam, testified in the public hearings the way he did -- really cast terrible aspersions upon all veterans who served in Vietnam and they feel strongly about that. They wanted to express those views in the course of the First Amendment debate.
They now have an ad up by two POWs held in the Hanoi Hilton for more than six years, they feel strongly that John Kerry discredited them. He made this an issue by the way he did his convention.
HEMMER: But ultimately, though, you're saying everything you did was legal. And if it's legal, then nothing is wrong. And if that's the case, then it comes back to my original point: Why get out?
GINSBERG: Because this has unfortunately become a distraction.
And you can see by the outlandish statements of Mary Beth Cahill -- who by the way, has not been willing to discuss this stuff publicly -- that they just want to concentrate on this false issue instead of what the president of the United States wants to do, which is talk about a positive vision.
HEMMER: Are there lawyers on the Kerry side doing the same thing that you were doing on the Bush side?
GINSBERG: Yes, they absolutely are, and there is nothing wrong with that.
HEMMER: Names?
GINSBERG: Bob Bauer represents the Kerry campaign through his law firm; he represents America Coming Together. Joe Sandler is the attorney for the Democratic National Committee.
They're not doing anything wrong.
What's wrong is the political operatives on the Democratic side who are illegally coordinating: Harold Ickes on the executive committee of the Democratic National Committee while running the largest soft money group, The Media Fund.
HEMMER: Are you willing to issue that challenge to the Democratic side and say, follow my lead and do the same thing I did?
GINSBERG: Well, Bill, I honestly don't think that what their lawyers are doing is wrong; it's precisely what I was doing. It's their political people -- Harold Ickes, Jim Jordan.
The folks who are running their 527 groups have position of responsibility and authority within the campaign and the Democratic National Committee. That's the illegal coordination.
HEMMER: The 527 continues to come up. We've gotten an education into this. Campaign finance laws and the reforms that were enacted were supposed to prevent things like this.
It's my understanding on the Democratic side, more than $100 million has been spent in areas like the 527s. Is this a suggestion, based on your experience now, and what's happening with moveon.org, et cetera, that this has all backfired when it comes to election laws in America?
GINSBERG: Well, I think it's clear that the erstwhile reforms were just sort of good intentions that had not worked out that way, and the onslaught of soft money is fascinating.
The Democrats have, as you say, put over $100 million in soft money ads in and been coordinating through their political operatives.
HEMMER: But has the new system -- has it failed?
GINSBERG: Yes. I think clearly it's failed, because candidates really are no longer driving the message. And this whole system really depends on candidates being able to talk to the people. That has not worked.
HEMMER: I'm out of time.
Ben Ginsberg, thanks for your time this morning.
GINSBERG: Thanks very much.
Next hour, by the way, former Senator Max Cleland is our guest here at 8:00 a.m. Eastern hour. We'll talk to him about what happened yesterday and going forward then. Now, Heidi, with more.
COLLINS: One of the first Guantanamo detainees to face a military court is an Australian man, David Hicks, a 29-year-old convert to Islam, who was captured in Afghanistan in December 2001. He pleaded not guilty yesterday to terrorism and murder charges. David Hicks met yesterday with his family for the first time in five years. David's father, Terry Hicks, and his lawyer, Stephen Kenny, are with us now this morning from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
Mr. Hicks, I want to begin with you, if I could. As we said, you haven't seen your son in quite some time. It was a short moment that you were able to reunite with him, but tell us what it was like.
TERRY HICKS, AUSTRALIAN DETAINEE'S FATHER: I was -- good morning, Heidi. It was a very emotional meeting, so we hadn't seen David for five years, and he looked good. It's the first time I'd seen David wearing a suit, so it kind of caught me aback first time I saw him.
COLLINS: You know, the military sketch, Mr. Hicks, doesn't allow us to see David's face, but we understand that he smiled at you as he left that courtroom. Is he feeling optimistic about these proceedings?
HICKS: I think these proceedings aren't a very fair of going about things.
My belief is that David should have been back in Australia, facing any charges back there, not being held here for another three years without any charges.
COLLINS: There are some reports, Mr. Hicks, that say that your son apparently met Osama bin Laden. He was at an Al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan, actually met one of the world's most hated men. How does that make you feel when you hear reports like that?
HICKS: Ah, look, I don't know whether he's even met the man.
However, good, long conversation with David yesterday. And he never even mentioned the man's name. I doubt whether David even met him. He may have seen him in the distance, I don't know. But as far as I know, and from what the conversation between David and myself, he was never even mentioned.
COLLINS: Well, there is some evidence and a picture I'd like to show. The Australian government, your government, has a picture of your son holding a bazooka. This is in Kosovo. You see this picture now. Again, as a father, when you see something like this, what goes through your mind?
HICKS: That photo is very upsetting, because the circumstances that photo was taken in, it was a posed photograph with -- that photograph is showing now -- how many people does it show? Just David? There was other people in that photo, and they're all smiling and standing around. So, it was a posed photograph, and that grenade launcher or whatever it was doesn't even -- we're told doesn't even work.
COLLINS: All right, Mr. Kenny, I quickly want to get to you. We're running out of time here. I know that you are denouncing the system in which he is going to be tried. Tell us quickly why that is.
STEPHEN KENNY, AUSTRALIAN DETAINEE'S LAWYER: The main reason is because it's not an independent commission. There is no independent judge who will over see this matter or the ultimate appeal in this matter if we're dissatisfied with the commission decision, is to President Bush personally, and that's something that would not be acceptable in the American judicial system in the U.S. military system, the British or Australian legal system, and it would, in evidence, that none of those legal systems would allow.
So, we -- what we say is that the whole setup of the commission is fundamentally flawed, that's our problem.
COLLINS: Well, I apologize for being so brief this morning, but certainly appreciate your time.
To the both of you, Terry Hick and Stephen Kenny, thanks once again -- Bill.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: Quickly to Najaf. Getting word right now, in fact videotape just in to us here at CNN, that the Grand Ayatollah Ali al- Sistani has arrived at the mosque in Najaf. This following a plea hours earlier to get Iraqis to converge on the mosque on a peaceful protest and show of support for the Iraqi people and the Shiite population here.
Again, al-Sistani traveling to the holy city out of Basra, where he returned this week after being treated for a heart condition back in London, England, says he will not unveil a peace plan to end the bloody standoff between the Shiite radical militiamen, holed up inside the mosque and around that mosque. We will see whether or not he has success. In the past, he's been met with varying degrees of success there.
But at this point, strikes again overnight near Najaf, and then you have the situation in nearby Kufa, where mortar rounds were fired into a group of Iraqis gathering to conduct their own march into Najaf, fired on, countless dead. Scores were wounded there. So, as that situation to unfold this hour, we will follow it for you. In fact, at the half hour, we will talk to a reporter on the scene there in Iraq and let you know what's happening today.
COLLINS: It will certainly be interesting to see if he's got any sort of influence there now.
All right, still to come this morning, thinking outside the box by going inside a box, one woman's amazing dash for freedom.
HEMMER: Also "New You" back again today, a checkup for our pack- a-day smoker Kathryn Burkholder. She had doubts that she could kick the habit. Was she right? We'll find out with Sanjay a bit later this hour.
COLLINS: And part four of our week-long series "Poli-wood." Today, it's got a beat and you can vote to it. The rock 'n' roll revolution, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Day four now of our week-long series of "Poli-wood," for a look at politics, Hollywood and the narrow line in between. More than ever, it seems music stars are playing the role of pied piper, leading young people to the polls. Is it working? And could it affect the November election?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAY ROMANO, ACTOR: It's simple, it takes a few minutes, and plus, guys, chicks dig registered voters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fight for your rights. Check it out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At least I get to decide who they are.
COLLINS (voice-over): You can either Rock the Vote, Choose or Lose. MoveOn or Vote for Change in this year's presidential election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Go to declareyourself.com to download your voter- registration forms.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Welcome to the new revolution. Rock 'n' roll is no longer raging against the machine, instead, pulling young people of all political persuasions to the polling booth.
SEAN "P. DIDDY" COMBS, CITIZEN CHANGE: We're trying to educate, motivate and empower young people that have over the year been disenfranchised about the voting process.
COLLINS: Since the voting-age requirement was lowered in 1972, the turnout rate has actually declined the most among 18 to 24-year- olds.
COMBS: It's very simple, if you -- if in your life, you need help in your life, and people are not talking about helping you, you're not going to keep tuned in to them, you know.
COLLINS: So, music moguls from Sean "P. Diddy" Combs, Russell Simmons, along with MTV and other grassroots groups, are using every effort to get younger Americans to the polls.
(on camera): There are some people out there, though, who will say, wait a minute, what is MTV doing? I mean, it's MTV; it's not politics.
GIDEON YAGO, MTV NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Just because somebody likes Britney Spears doesn't mean that they don't care about STDs, or politics, or violence in their schools or war outside of, you know, America's borders. It's not mutually exclusive.
COLLINS (voice-over): And so, pop stars like OutKast's Andre 3000 may be better at delivering the message to you young people. ANDRE 3000, DECLARE YOURSELF: Mr. Norman Lear, who's doing a campaign with Declare Yourself, he contacted me and said, you know, we want to recruit you to get the youth to vote. You know, and I said, well, Mr. Lear, you know, I don't know if I'm the right person for it, because I've never voted ever in my life, and he said, no, that's perfect.
So, I think doing it by example is my plight, you know, just to show by example. I'm not like a huge, you know, politician, you know, let's go, let's go fight and let's go stand out, you know, but if I have to do that I will, you know, but, hey I think what I'm doing through music is way more powerful, could be way more powerful than a politician, you know.
COLLINS: Artists line Andre 3000 may get the vote out, but can musicians have any effect on convincing the voters who to vote for?
A Bush/Cheney campaign spokesperson said, "All the showbiz in the world isn't going to get John Kerry elected president. The Democrats may have the Boss, but we have commander in chief."
YAGO: At the end of the day, you know, young people, you know, they may get tuned in to the fact that this election is important, because someone in Hollywood, you know, says so, but they're not necessarily going to vote, because, you know, celebrity X tells them to; they're going to vote because the issues affect their lives.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Our five-part "Poli-wood" series concludes tomorrow with a look at the importance of a candidates' image. In our medium- driven world where a premium is placed on image, will Hollywood directors play a bigger role in politics? Again, that's tomorrow, right here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Still to come, though, this morning, some advice for car buyers. We have got some tips on how to finance a new car and not go broke. Our personal finance coach David Bach stops by.
Stay with us, right here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Hot topic here in New York City. Back to Jack for that.
CAFFERTY: It could be a dandy. Thanks, Bill.
New York City concerned about security, obviously, during the Republican National Convention next week. Whether the need for that security conflicts with the freedom of protesters to assemble and dissent has become a rather large issue in the town.
In fact, an anti-GOP umbrella group call United for Peace and Justice was denied a permit to demonstrate on the great lawn of Central Park. They have been told they can protest near the convention center, but not on the great lawn. The city spent $18 million to restore that lawn a few years back, doesn't want it destroyed again. They activists are vowing to go to the park on Sunday following a march through Manhattan. It could get ugly.
Here's the question, is it right to keep the protesters out of Central Park? They're offering them a fine site over there on the west side, by the Hudson River. They don't like that. They want to go to the park. Am@cnn.com. Could be an interesting few days here in the big town.
COLLINS: And we're going to talk with the police commissioner Ray Kelly about it, too, a little bit later on this morning.
HEMMER: And they won't wait until Monday, by the way. They're planning for this weekend, too.
CAFFERTY: No, no, no, they're having a march on Sunday, and a lot are quoted in the paper saying, well, we're going to the park anyway. So, they'll probably be a welcoming committee there for them.
HEMMER: Doubt it.
Thanks, Jack.
Breaking news out Iraq. Already again today, the Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani is in Najaf. Thousands of protesters making their way there. A live report in a moment.
Also ahead, one of the biggest challenges yet for New York's finest, securing the convention. As Heidi mentioned, we'll talk to the man in charge, Commissioner Ray Kelly, after a break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired August 26, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news from Iraq at this hour -- the country's highest Shiite cleric and his followers head into the chaotic situation in Najaf. Explosive consequences, too -- dozen dozens are dead. A situation still unfolding at this hour.
A prominent lawyer in the president's campaign resigns. Today, Ben Ginsberg explains his involvement in the Swift Boat ads against John Kerry.
And three airports, two rivers, millions of people -- practically every prominent Republican in America -- the huge challenge of security at the convention starting Monday, on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
HEMMER: And good morning on a Thursday morning. I'm Bill Hemmer here in New York. Thanks for being with us today.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Heidi Collins in for Soledad.
We want to get to some of the other stories that we are following this morning.
After years of waiting, the legal wheels now turning for four detainees at Guantanamo Bay. Among them is Australian David Hicks, who yesterday saw his father for the first time in five years. In just a few minutes now, we're going to talk with Terry Hicks about the case against his son.
HEMMER: Also this hour, personal finance coach David Bach back with us today talking about buying a new car. It's not all about kicking the tires. Some decisions that many folks rush right through can wind up costing them a lot of money in the end. David Bach is here this hour.
COLLINS: And Jack Cafferty is here.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Indeed. Good morning.
So, we got all these demonstrators, protesters coming to New York City from all over the country. They want to carry their signs and march around and express their disapproval of the Republican policies, the administration's policies next week during the convention. They want to hold a demonstration, 250,000 people in Central Park. The city spent $20 million to replace the lawn a few years back. The judge says, no, you can't go and tear up the lawn. You can hold your demonstration somewhere else. Well, that's not good enough. They want to held it in Central Park.
The police are saying, you can't go to Central Park. It's a security issue. The judge hasn't given you a permit for the demonstration. Could get ugly. We'll take a look at it.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.
COLLINS: Could get very ugly. All right, Jack. Thank you.
We're going to go to Carol Costello now at the CNN Center with a look at what's now happening in the news this morning. Carol, good morning.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Heidi. Thank you.
A powerful bomb exploded this morning in a southern province of Thailand. At least one person was killed, some 23 other people were hurt. There has been no claim of responsibility as of yet. The region has been wracked by violence in recent months that officials blame on Islamic militants.
The recorders aboard two Russian jets have reportedly not given investigators any new clues about why those planes crashed within minutes of each other. That's according to officials cited this morning by the ITAR-TASS news agency. The aircraft fell off radar screens yesterday, killing all 89 people on board. Russian President Vladimir Putin has declared today a day of mourning.
A man who was questioned in connection with the shooting deaths of a young couple on a California beach has been released. The man told police he never met Lindsay Cutshall and her fiancee Jason Allen. Their bodies were found last week shot to death in their sleeping bags. The Sonoma County Sheriff's Office has posted a $10,000 reward to help solve the crime.
In Athens this morning, a Ukrainian rower has failed a drug test. She's been ejected from the Games now. She and her team have been stripped of their bronze medals in the quadruple sculls event. And within the half hour, the men's U.S. basketball team tips off against undefeated Spain in the quarterfinals. A win is the Americans' last hope for a medal.
Back to New York and you, Heidi.
COLLINS: All right, Carol. Thanks so much for that.
The stage is set is for a dramatic showdown in Najaf, Iraq, today. According to wire reports, Iraq's preeminent Shiite Muslim leader Ayatollah al-Sistani has now arrived in Najaf. He had been leading in a, quote, "rescue march" to the mosque, where the forces of radical Muqtada al-Sadr have been holed up for the past three weeks. Demonstrators had already then attacked several times today. We have CNN's Kianne Sadeq. She's in Najaf. She's joining us now by phone to give us the very latest. Kianne, what is happening there at this time?
KIANNE SADEQ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Carol (sic). Well, at this time, until now, we're hearing that people are still in the streets awaiting the arrival of Iraqi Shiite cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani to arrive and tell them what to do.
They began to make their way from Kufa to Najaf. On the way, on the streets going to Najaf, they were attacked by sniper fire -- great amounts of sniper fire. So, at this time, they are in the streets, awaiting the word or arrival of the Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani to see what the next step would be for them.
COLLINS: Kianne, I just -- I wanted to clarify something quickly. As I had said, when we tossed this to you, we understood that wire reports are showing that Ali al-Sistani has arrived. You say not yet.
Can you just tell us a little bit more about that for clarification?
SADEQ: Yes, well, I don't -- we don't have that specifically confirmed that the Grand Ayatollah was to return. We were told by the governor that he was to arrive here at about 7:00 p.m. this evening. So, we have no confirmation of whether he is here or not.
But what I can tell you is that the people, the demonstrators who are out there in a peaceful demonstration are awaiting his return in order to march in a peaceful demonstration to the old city of Najaf and the Imam Ali Shrine, where fighting has been taking place for quite some time now.
Back to you.
COLLINS: All right. Kianne Sadeq, thanks so much for clearing us up on that. We certainly appreciate it. We'll check in with you a little bit later on today and see how this situation develops -- Bill?
HEMMER: All right, Heidi. The Swift Boat controversy moved to Crawford, Texas, yesterday.
Vietnam veteran, former Senator Max Cleland tried to deliver President Bush a letter calling on him to condemn the recent ads attacking John Kerry. Cleland, though, was met instead by the Texas Land Commissioner, a Vietnam veteran himself, supporting President Bush, who had a letter of his own.
Here is what some of that conversation entailed in Crawford.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAX CLELAND, VIETNAM VETERAN, FMR. U.S. SENATOR: The question is: Where is George Bush's honor? The question is: Where is his shame? To attack a fellow veteran who has distinguished himself in combat, regardless of the political combat involved, is disgraceful.
JERRY PATTERSON, TEXAS LAND COMMISSIONER: Either we pull them all down or all get their piece. Either they all go down or they all have their piece.
It's not mutually exclusive; all veterans have a right to speak. But if we have 527s, you can't selectively say this one's good, that one's bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Neither letter, by the way, ended up in the hands of its intended recipient. All of this coming shortly after the chief outside counsel of the Bush campaign resigned because of his association with the Swift Boat Veterans.
Ben Ginsberg wrote in his resignation letter to the president, quoting now: "I have decided to resign as national counsel to your campaign to ensure that the giving of legal advice to decorated military veterans, which was entirely within the boundaries of the law, does not distract from the real issues upon which you and the country should be focusing," end quote.
Mr. Ginsberg, my guest now here in New York City in our studios at AMERICAN MORNING. Good morning to you.
You say "distracting" in that letter there. Who are you distracting?
BEN GINSBERG, FMR. CHIEF OUTSIDE COUNSEL FOR BUSH CAMPAIGN: Well, I'm afraid that the whole country was getting distracted from the president's forward-looking agenda that he wants to propose and have the country focus on it. Unfortunately, the kind of virulent street theater that Senator Cleland did yesterday in Crawford just contributes to that distraction.
HEMMER: Was this your decision, or did the campaign come to you and say, Mr. Ginsberg, it is time to exit?
GINSBERG: No, it was mine.
I mean, I'm -- unfortunately, the highest honor I've had as a lawyer is representing the president, but when the representation by a lawyer distracts from the agenda that the president wants to put forward, it's time to go.
HEMMER: There was attorney-client privilege throughout this entire story.
Did the White House know that you were holding essentially two jobs that related to this campaign?
GINSBERG: No, they didn't. I'm a lawyer in outside practice, and I have a number of clients. And lawyers don't tell one client what they're doing for the other client.
HEMMER: Here's what Democrats say, "The sudden resignation of Bush's top lawyer doesn't end the extensive web of connections between George Bush and the group trying to smear John Kerry's military record. In fact, it only confirms the extent of these connections" -- Mary Beth Cahill, her words from yesterday.
Your reaction to that on the Democratic side is what?
GINSBERG: I think that's blatant distortion from the fact that Senator Kerry made his military service the centerpiece of his convention.
There are a group of veterans who feel deeply and strongly that his actions -- particularly when he came back from Vietnam, testified in the public hearings the way he did -- really cast terrible aspersions upon all veterans who served in Vietnam and they feel strongly about that. They wanted to express those views in the course of the First Amendment debate.
They now have an ad up by two POWs held in the Hanoi Hilton for more than six years, they feel strongly that John Kerry discredited them. He made this an issue by the way he did his convention.
HEMMER: But ultimately, though, you're saying everything you did was legal. And if it's legal, then nothing is wrong. And if that's the case, then it comes back to my original point: Why get out?
GINSBERG: Because this has unfortunately become a distraction.
And you can see by the outlandish statements of Mary Beth Cahill -- who by the way, has not been willing to discuss this stuff publicly -- that they just want to concentrate on this false issue instead of what the president of the United States wants to do, which is talk about a positive vision.
HEMMER: Are there lawyers on the Kerry side doing the same thing that you were doing on the Bush side?
GINSBERG: Yes, they absolutely are, and there is nothing wrong with that.
HEMMER: Names?
GINSBERG: Bob Bauer represents the Kerry campaign through his law firm; he represents America Coming Together. Joe Sandler is the attorney for the Democratic National Committee.
They're not doing anything wrong.
What's wrong is the political operatives on the Democratic side who are illegally coordinating: Harold Ickes on the executive committee of the Democratic National Committee while running the largest soft money group, The Media Fund.
HEMMER: Are you willing to issue that challenge to the Democratic side and say, follow my lead and do the same thing I did?
GINSBERG: Well, Bill, I honestly don't think that what their lawyers are doing is wrong; it's precisely what I was doing. It's their political people -- Harold Ickes, Jim Jordan.
The folks who are running their 527 groups have position of responsibility and authority within the campaign and the Democratic National Committee. That's the illegal coordination.
HEMMER: The 527 continues to come up. We've gotten an education into this. Campaign finance laws and the reforms that were enacted were supposed to prevent things like this.
It's my understanding on the Democratic side, more than $100 million has been spent in areas like the 527s. Is this a suggestion, based on your experience now, and what's happening with moveon.org, et cetera, that this has all backfired when it comes to election laws in America?
GINSBERG: Well, I think it's clear that the erstwhile reforms were just sort of good intentions that had not worked out that way, and the onslaught of soft money is fascinating.
The Democrats have, as you say, put over $100 million in soft money ads in and been coordinating through their political operatives.
HEMMER: But has the new system -- has it failed?
GINSBERG: Yes. I think clearly it's failed, because candidates really are no longer driving the message. And this whole system really depends on candidates being able to talk to the people. That has not worked.
HEMMER: I'm out of time.
Ben Ginsberg, thanks for your time this morning.
GINSBERG: Thanks very much.
Next hour, by the way, former Senator Max Cleland is our guest here at 8:00 a.m. Eastern hour. We'll talk to him about what happened yesterday and going forward then. Now, Heidi, with more.
COLLINS: One of the first Guantanamo detainees to face a military court is an Australian man, David Hicks, a 29-year-old convert to Islam, who was captured in Afghanistan in December 2001. He pleaded not guilty yesterday to terrorism and murder charges. David Hicks met yesterday with his family for the first time in five years. David's father, Terry Hicks, and his lawyer, Stephen Kenny, are with us now this morning from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
Mr. Hicks, I want to begin with you, if I could. As we said, you haven't seen your son in quite some time. It was a short moment that you were able to reunite with him, but tell us what it was like.
TERRY HICKS, AUSTRALIAN DETAINEE'S FATHER: I was -- good morning, Heidi. It was a very emotional meeting, so we hadn't seen David for five years, and he looked good. It's the first time I'd seen David wearing a suit, so it kind of caught me aback first time I saw him.
COLLINS: You know, the military sketch, Mr. Hicks, doesn't allow us to see David's face, but we understand that he smiled at you as he left that courtroom. Is he feeling optimistic about these proceedings?
HICKS: I think these proceedings aren't a very fair of going about things.
My belief is that David should have been back in Australia, facing any charges back there, not being held here for another three years without any charges.
COLLINS: There are some reports, Mr. Hicks, that say that your son apparently met Osama bin Laden. He was at an Al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan, actually met one of the world's most hated men. How does that make you feel when you hear reports like that?
HICKS: Ah, look, I don't know whether he's even met the man.
However, good, long conversation with David yesterday. And he never even mentioned the man's name. I doubt whether David even met him. He may have seen him in the distance, I don't know. But as far as I know, and from what the conversation between David and myself, he was never even mentioned.
COLLINS: Well, there is some evidence and a picture I'd like to show. The Australian government, your government, has a picture of your son holding a bazooka. This is in Kosovo. You see this picture now. Again, as a father, when you see something like this, what goes through your mind?
HICKS: That photo is very upsetting, because the circumstances that photo was taken in, it was a posed photograph with -- that photograph is showing now -- how many people does it show? Just David? There was other people in that photo, and they're all smiling and standing around. So, it was a posed photograph, and that grenade launcher or whatever it was doesn't even -- we're told doesn't even work.
COLLINS: All right, Mr. Kenny, I quickly want to get to you. We're running out of time here. I know that you are denouncing the system in which he is going to be tried. Tell us quickly why that is.
STEPHEN KENNY, AUSTRALIAN DETAINEE'S LAWYER: The main reason is because it's not an independent commission. There is no independent judge who will over see this matter or the ultimate appeal in this matter if we're dissatisfied with the commission decision, is to President Bush personally, and that's something that would not be acceptable in the American judicial system in the U.S. military system, the British or Australian legal system, and it would, in evidence, that none of those legal systems would allow.
So, we -- what we say is that the whole setup of the commission is fundamentally flawed, that's our problem.
COLLINS: Well, I apologize for being so brief this morning, but certainly appreciate your time.
To the both of you, Terry Hick and Stephen Kenny, thanks once again -- Bill.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: Quickly to Najaf. Getting word right now, in fact videotape just in to us here at CNN, that the Grand Ayatollah Ali al- Sistani has arrived at the mosque in Najaf. This following a plea hours earlier to get Iraqis to converge on the mosque on a peaceful protest and show of support for the Iraqi people and the Shiite population here.
Again, al-Sistani traveling to the holy city out of Basra, where he returned this week after being treated for a heart condition back in London, England, says he will not unveil a peace plan to end the bloody standoff between the Shiite radical militiamen, holed up inside the mosque and around that mosque. We will see whether or not he has success. In the past, he's been met with varying degrees of success there.
But at this point, strikes again overnight near Najaf, and then you have the situation in nearby Kufa, where mortar rounds were fired into a group of Iraqis gathering to conduct their own march into Najaf, fired on, countless dead. Scores were wounded there. So, as that situation to unfold this hour, we will follow it for you. In fact, at the half hour, we will talk to a reporter on the scene there in Iraq and let you know what's happening today.
COLLINS: It will certainly be interesting to see if he's got any sort of influence there now.
All right, still to come this morning, thinking outside the box by going inside a box, one woman's amazing dash for freedom.
HEMMER: Also "New You" back again today, a checkup for our pack- a-day smoker Kathryn Burkholder. She had doubts that she could kick the habit. Was she right? We'll find out with Sanjay a bit later this hour.
COLLINS: And part four of our week-long series "Poli-wood." Today, it's got a beat and you can vote to it. The rock 'n' roll revolution, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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COLLINS: Day four now of our week-long series of "Poli-wood," for a look at politics, Hollywood and the narrow line in between. More than ever, it seems music stars are playing the role of pied piper, leading young people to the polls. Is it working? And could it affect the November election?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAY ROMANO, ACTOR: It's simple, it takes a few minutes, and plus, guys, chicks dig registered voters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fight for your rights. Check it out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At least I get to decide who they are.
COLLINS (voice-over): You can either Rock the Vote, Choose or Lose. MoveOn or Vote for Change in this year's presidential election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Go to declareyourself.com to download your voter- registration forms.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Welcome to the new revolution. Rock 'n' roll is no longer raging against the machine, instead, pulling young people of all political persuasions to the polling booth.
SEAN "P. DIDDY" COMBS, CITIZEN CHANGE: We're trying to educate, motivate and empower young people that have over the year been disenfranchised about the voting process.
COLLINS: Since the voting-age requirement was lowered in 1972, the turnout rate has actually declined the most among 18 to 24-year- olds.
COMBS: It's very simple, if you -- if in your life, you need help in your life, and people are not talking about helping you, you're not going to keep tuned in to them, you know.
COLLINS: So, music moguls from Sean "P. Diddy" Combs, Russell Simmons, along with MTV and other grassroots groups, are using every effort to get younger Americans to the polls.
(on camera): There are some people out there, though, who will say, wait a minute, what is MTV doing? I mean, it's MTV; it's not politics.
GIDEON YAGO, MTV NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Just because somebody likes Britney Spears doesn't mean that they don't care about STDs, or politics, or violence in their schools or war outside of, you know, America's borders. It's not mutually exclusive.
COLLINS (voice-over): And so, pop stars like OutKast's Andre 3000 may be better at delivering the message to you young people. ANDRE 3000, DECLARE YOURSELF: Mr. Norman Lear, who's doing a campaign with Declare Yourself, he contacted me and said, you know, we want to recruit you to get the youth to vote. You know, and I said, well, Mr. Lear, you know, I don't know if I'm the right person for it, because I've never voted ever in my life, and he said, no, that's perfect.
So, I think doing it by example is my plight, you know, just to show by example. I'm not like a huge, you know, politician, you know, let's go, let's go fight and let's go stand out, you know, but if I have to do that I will, you know, but, hey I think what I'm doing through music is way more powerful, could be way more powerful than a politician, you know.
COLLINS: Artists line Andre 3000 may get the vote out, but can musicians have any effect on convincing the voters who to vote for?
A Bush/Cheney campaign spokesperson said, "All the showbiz in the world isn't going to get John Kerry elected president. The Democrats may have the Boss, but we have commander in chief."
YAGO: At the end of the day, you know, young people, you know, they may get tuned in to the fact that this election is important, because someone in Hollywood, you know, says so, but they're not necessarily going to vote, because, you know, celebrity X tells them to; they're going to vote because the issues affect their lives.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Our five-part "Poli-wood" series concludes tomorrow with a look at the importance of a candidates' image. In our medium- driven world where a premium is placed on image, will Hollywood directors play a bigger role in politics? Again, that's tomorrow, right here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Still to come, though, this morning, some advice for car buyers. We have got some tips on how to finance a new car and not go broke. Our personal finance coach David Bach stops by.
Stay with us, right here on AMERICAN MORNING.
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HEMMER: Hot topic here in New York City. Back to Jack for that.
CAFFERTY: It could be a dandy. Thanks, Bill.
New York City concerned about security, obviously, during the Republican National Convention next week. Whether the need for that security conflicts with the freedom of protesters to assemble and dissent has become a rather large issue in the town.
In fact, an anti-GOP umbrella group call United for Peace and Justice was denied a permit to demonstrate on the great lawn of Central Park. They have been told they can protest near the convention center, but not on the great lawn. The city spent $18 million to restore that lawn a few years back, doesn't want it destroyed again. They activists are vowing to go to the park on Sunday following a march through Manhattan. It could get ugly.
Here's the question, is it right to keep the protesters out of Central Park? They're offering them a fine site over there on the west side, by the Hudson River. They don't like that. They want to go to the park. Am@cnn.com. Could be an interesting few days here in the big town.
COLLINS: And we're going to talk with the police commissioner Ray Kelly about it, too, a little bit later on this morning.
HEMMER: And they won't wait until Monday, by the way. They're planning for this weekend, too.
CAFFERTY: No, no, no, they're having a march on Sunday, and a lot are quoted in the paper saying, well, we're going to the park anyway. So, they'll probably be a welcoming committee there for them.
HEMMER: Doubt it.
Thanks, Jack.
Breaking news out Iraq. Already again today, the Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani is in Najaf. Thousands of protesters making their way there. A live report in a moment.
Also ahead, one of the biggest challenges yet for New York's finest, securing the convention. As Heidi mentioned, we'll talk to the man in charge, Commissioner Ray Kelly, after a break.
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