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American Morning

Max Cleland Discusses Letter to Bush; Sistani Returns to Najaf

Aired August 26, 2004 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. I'm Heidi Collins, in for Soledad.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Bill Hemmer. Good morning. Welcome back. Russian officials have now examined the flight recorders from those two planes that crashed yesterday, one after the other. We'll talk about that. Also talk to a man who specializes in air security about what he thinks likely caused those planes to go down. It is a mystery again today by the way.

Also, in women's health, a whole new approach to family planning. Sanjay Gupta will be with us. He'll tell us about a computer that can actually help prevent pregnancy. Interesting.

HEMMER: Also, Jack is back with us. Good morning, Mr. Cafferty, what's happening?

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: A computer that can help prevent pregnancy?

COLLINS: You got it.

HEMMER: Prevent...

CAFFERTY: I want to see the films.

Coming up in "The Cafferty File": We've got finally a dictionary that's coming out in Germany that translates for men who tend to be a little dense of what women really mean when they say things like, get in line. It's not what you think.

And you remember those t-shirts? West Virginia, something about "it's all relative in West Virginia"? Terrible. Well, there's a new one out that's even worse and Kentucky is getting gored in this deal, too. We'll have that in the "File" coming up.

HEMMER: Governors are none too happy. Thank you, Jack.

Let's get right to Carol Costello now, CNN Center, looking at what's happening at the top of the news, top of this hour.

Carol, good morning, again.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Bill. Thank you. A Yemeni man suspected of aiding al Qaeda's propaganda is set to face a military tribunal today at Guantanamo Bay. The man is charged with conspiracy to commit war crimes. Yesterday Australian David Hicks pleaded "not guilty" to all charges again him. Four suspected enemy combatants will undergo preliminary hearings at the U.S. Naval base this week.

An American citizen captured in Afghanistan three years ago has filed new papers claiming he is not an enemy combatant. Yaser Esam Hamdi claims he never fought against U.S. forces. Hamdi was kept in Guantanamo and in U.S. jail since 2001. A federal judge has ordered the U.S. government to bring Hamdi to court on Monday or release him.

The Fay Report released yesterday is opening up new insight into the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal. The report by Army Major General George Fay and Lieutenant General Anthony Jones uses the word "torture" to describe some events and points to failings of military intelligence personnel. More charges expected in connection with the mistreatment.

At the Olympics in Athens, the U.S. and Spain are now having at it in the men's basketball quarterfinals, this all or nothing battle has the struggling U.S. dream team with two losses, but trying to hang on against an undefeated Spanish team. As of 15 minutes ago, the teams were tied 25-25.

So Heidi, it sounds like an exciting game, at least.

COLLINS: Yes. I don't know about that basketball team. Keep cheering them on, though. All right. Thanks so much for that, Carol.

The swift boat controversy moved to Crawford, Texas, yesterday. Vietnam veteran and former senator Max Cleland attempted to deliver to President Bush a letter calling on him to condemn the recent ads attacking John Kerry. Cleland was met instead by the Texas land commissioner, a Vietnam veteran supporting President Bush who also had a letter.

Neither letter, though, reached its intended recipient. Here now some of what transpired.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAX CLELAND (D), FMR. U.S. SENATOR: These scurrilous attacks on John Kerry's credibility in war, his courage, his valor are false, and George Bush is behind it. That's why I tried to deliver a letter at the president's home and hand it to either him or one of his aides, but that was unsuccessful.

JERRY PATTERSON, TEXAS LAND COMMISSIONER: He kept rolling away from me. He would not face me. I attempted to shake his hand. He would not face me. He would not accept my offer of taking the letter and ensuring that it gets delivered to President Bush.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Also yesterday, Ben Ginsberg, chief outside counsel to the Bush campaign resigned because of his association with the swift boat veterans.

Max Cleland's letter did not get to President Bush, but did Cleland still achieve what he wanted to?

The former senator and Vietnam veteran is now live with us this morning from Washington.

Senator Cleland, thanks for being with us.

CLELAND: Good morning.

COLLINS: White House spokesman Scott McClellan actually characterized what happened yesterday on your part as a political stunt.

What do you say to the critics who are saying, delivering letters, continuing to talk about all of this, is really just perpetuating the issue and not getting to the real issues of this campaign?

CLELAND: Well, I think that Scott McClellan ought to look at the videotape of his president landing on an aircraft carrier three weeks into the Iraq war, playing dress-up on an aircraft carrier and saying, "mission accomplished, major combat over, bring them on." And that "bring it on" has resulted in the deaths of almost 1,000 young Americans there and 10,000 wounded, and the chaos that we now see unraveling in Iraq.

COLLINS: Pardon the eruption, but I do ask you, then, was your mission accomplished?

CLELAND: The mission was to carry to the president this plea to, please, stop attacking the credibility and courage and character of John Kerry, because those attacks are false and the president is behind it.

Two campaign officials in the last two weeks have had to resign because of their connection with the swift boat veterans for Bush.

This president has gone after three Vietnam veterans in four years, and it's time for this to stop. John McCain has said these ads against John Kerry are dishonest and dishonorable.

And in today's news, John McCain is going to talk about this with the president personally this weekend and say, Mr. President, please cease and desist. We don't need this in America and it's tearing us Vietnam veterans apart.

COLLINS: Did you get accomplished what you wanted to get accomplished yesterday?

CLELAND: I'm trying to make sure that nine members of the United States Senate, all of whom served in the military, one of whom won the Medal of Honor, that their message was delivered. It was a message from the United States senators, nine of them asking the president to stop these attacks on John Kerry's character and courage. Now we have 19 members of the United States House of Representatives, all of whom who have served in the American military, saying the same thing to the president.

And more and more veterans around this country are saying to the president, Mr. President, stop these negative attacks on John Kerry, because this is what's happening: What is happening here is the president is trying to cover up the tragedy in Iraq, the sense in which he has made more enemies abroad than friends, and the disastrous record in losing more jobs that he's created in this country.

COLLINS: Let me, if I may, talk about some other veterans.

The president's representative yesterday, who was also a Vietnam veteran as you know, Jerry Patterson, tried to hand you that letter -- I want to, just for a moment, to show on the screen part of that letter. It says this: "You accused your fellow veterans" -- of course, addressing this to Senator John Kerry -- "of terrible atrocities and to this day you have never apologized. Even last night, you claim to be proud of your post-war condemnation of our actions."

Don't you risk by highlighting that, that this is just being dragged out in an area that don't want it to be dragged out into?

CLELAND: Well, first of all, that letter does not state the facts.

John Kerry is proud of his service, as am I, and 3.5 million veterans who served in Vietnam are basically proud of our service to our country. We realize that George Bush did not and Dick Cheney did not.

But be that as it may, the truth of the matter is that John Kerry is proud of his service. He served with great distinction.

And the point is, this president is behind the scurrilous attacks on John Kerry's character and courage, and that should stop, because first of all, as John McCain has said, it's dishonest and dishonorable, and it's also illegal. That's why two members of the president's campaign team associated with these attacks have resigned in the last two weeks.

COLLINS: I was not aware that was illegal. In fact, we talked about that earlier today.

Senator Max Cleland, we certainly appreciate your time. Thanks so much.

CLELAND: Thank you.

HEMMER: Let's go from Washington now, Heidi, over to Iraq again. The powerful Iraqi Shiite leader Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani is in Najaf. In fact, he arrived just about an hour ago, leading a peace effort to end the standoff between U.S. troops, Iraqi forces and those forces loyal to radical Shiite leader Muqtada al-Sadr. Those forces now still in and around the Imam Ali Mosque. Kianne Sadeq is back on the phone with us, CNN producer on the scene there from Najaf.

What do you have this hour -- Kianne.

KIANNE SADEQ, CNN PRODUCER: Yes, Bill, well, I'm right outside the house where the grand ayatollah, Ali al-Sistani, arrived just a little while ago. And his spokesman -- we spoke to his spokesman, Hamid al-Khafaf, who told us that Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani has come to Najaf against the orders of the doctors because he wanted to hurry up and come over to end this crisis.

Now, he called on all demonstrators who were in Kufa and all other provinces of Iraq to stay where they are at this time and not to move any further towards the old Najaf until further notice.

He also said that they had five goals that they were attempting to accomplish in their time here. They wanted all armed persons out of Najaf and Kufa. They want no arms in Najaf and Kufa. They said we want all foreign forces out of Najaf as well.

He said that they want compensation for those who were affected by this conflict, and he wanted the solve all these problems of Iraq through a legitimate election.

Now Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani is still in this house, resting as he has had a long trip over here from Basra today.

Back to you, Bill.

HEMMER: Kianne, quickly, do we know the relationship at this point between Sistani and al-Sadr? And also do we have any indication as to whether or not the militia members loyal to al-Sadr would listen to Sistani if he made the plea to get out of Najaf and that shrine now?

SADEQ: Yes, well we asked a spokesman regarding what is happening at this time, and they said that they have begun phone calls with al-Sadr's people, and they have begun the negotiations process, but they said that this process was new, and that they have not yet reached any conclusions as they have just arrived.

Muqtada Al Sadr's people are very, very loyal to him. And at this time, what I get from those people is that they will listen to Muqtada al-Sadr. The question is, (INAUDIBLE) between Muqtada al-Sadr and the Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani.

Back to you, Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Kianne Sadeq, thanks for that update there in Najaf, outside the home of the grand ayatollah there, arriving back at his home after he had been treated for the past several days in London for a heart condition, all this coming on the heels of the news that broke overnight here at stateside.

In Iraq, these protesters who gathered for a peaceful march in Najaf in the nearby town of Kufa coming under mortar attack there. At least 25 dead. One reports says at least 60 others are wounded. That continues to be a significant headline out of Iraq at this hour. We will follow that.

In the meantime, back in this country, 11 minutes past the hour.

Back to courtroom now, where the judge in the Kobe Bryant matter will hold an emergency hearing today over allegations that DNA evidence was contaminated.

Alex's Stone, a radio reporter from Denver, back with us live this morning here on AMERICAN MORNING.

Al, it's good to have you.

ALEX STONE, RADIO REPORTER: Hi, Bill. Good morning.

HEMMER: The prosecution wants the question of reliability of the DNA defense experts. How did do they plan on doing this and what's the beef?

STONE: Yes, a lot of people, Bill, are saying this isn't an 11- hour appeal to the judge, this is an 11th-hour and 59-minute appeal, asking for some sort of relief here. The prosecution is saying that some of the evidence that's been tested by this DNA expert in Southern California was tainted or manipulated in some way, and saying that it should be tossed out.

This is a big day, Bill, for the prosecution, because if they can prove to the judge that this evidence needs to be tossed out, the defense would have some serious trouble trying to prove that the accuser had multiple sex partners around the time she was with Kobe Bryant, this theory that we've been talking about for months now, that the accuser may have had sex with somebody between the time she was with Kobe Bryant and the time she went to police to report the alleged rape. It's a 15-hour window. Without the DNA, the defense would have a tough time proving that, because still says she did not have sex with anybody.

HEMMER: And that is a significant part of the defense argument that we have found out already.

Back to the prosecution's claim. What do they say is tainted on this evidence?

STONE: They say that there are several areas. They say one is that some of the data appears to have been whited out or changed in some way. They also say that the control samples, samples that in DNA testing and forensics should come up us negatives. They claim that they came up with DNA on them, that these are blank slides that are used to make sure that everything is clean and everything is working properly. They say they have evidence that they came up with DNA testing, and that someone may have been manipulated.

HEMMER: So that hearing is today then, and the schedule is to go ahead and weed through the prospective jurors beginning tomorrow. Is that still going to happen?

STONE: Yes, this is just hours before all of this is supposed to happen. The trial technically starts tomorrow. The jury will be -- the selection process will start tomorrow. It's expected to last about a week. Nine-hundred and ninety nine summons went out to potential jurors in Eagle County, really because it's such a transient county, because it's a ski resort community. The court doesn't know how many will show up tomorrow, but they'll fill out a 115-question questionnaire, and then be called back next week for one-on-one interviews for the jury selection process.

HEMMER: Thanks, Alex, KOA Denver radio reporter there in Colorado. Nice to talk to you.

STONE: Thanks, Bill.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: In a moment here, remember Elian? Four years now since agents whisked him away from his family in Miami. Now there is a new development in this matter, update on that in a moment here.

COLLINS: Also ahead, the 2004 presidential race is heating up with a big controversy, but it's nothing new. We're going to talk to a man who's covered 40 years worth.

HEMMER: Also, those two Russian plane crashes. One expert says only two things could be to blame. He does not think it was human error. We'll talk to him in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: This morning, a top Russian official says terrorism remains the main theory following Tuesday's near-simultaneous crashes of two Russian jetliners. The planes went down about 450 miles apart in Tula and Rostov after taking off from the same Moscow airport. New reports today now say the plane's flight data recorders are not giving any clues as to what happened.

Charles Slepian is an aviation security analyst. He is joining me now this morning with more on all of this.

OK, so they're still looking at the flight data recorders, trying to glean as much information from them as they can. But what do you make of this overall picture here? Two planes taking off and crashing pretty closely together timeframe-wise? What's your initial reaction?

CHARLES SLEPIAN, AVIATION SECURITY ANALYST: Airplanes don't just fall out of the sky. They come down either because somebody intentionally wants them to come down or there's come kind of human error which leads to a maintenance fault or flying through a storm, or something of that nature.

There is no evidence here of the second category. It appears as though that these planes were brought to the ground as the result of an intentional act. And if you look at the evidence, and there is some evidence to indicate that that was the case.

COLLINS: The hijacking alert. SLEPIAN: Well, there's the hijacking alert. There are witnesses who heard explosions from the ground. The pattern of debris on the ground. The fact that there is an upcoming election, that there is unrest in the region, and that there is a group that commits acts of terrorism. The fact there was a bombing in a bus station, some hours earlier the same day, all would lean toward the theory that this was a terrorist act.

Absence some other indication that this was a mechanical act of some kind, or some other cause that brought them to the ground, we have to go with the notion of terrorism.

COLLINS: All right. We also know that the flight data recorders, as we mentioned, being taken back to Moscow for analysis. How long -- just so people have an idea of this process -- how long does it usually take to decode them?

SLEPIAN: It could take from days to weeks depending on what they're looking for. The flight data recorder will tell you about a mechanical failure. It'll tell you whether there was something wrong with the fuel, for instance, whether there was a flame-out onboard the aircraft. The flight data recorder may indicate a sound that indicates an explosion onboard. It may have a voice message indicating a...

COLLINS: We've got -- we've got not only flight data recorders, which are different from cockpit voice recorders...

SLEPIAN: Yes.

COLLINS: ... we've got both here. So, that's quite a bit of information.

SLEPIAN: Well, it's the black boxes in general, and they have them -- all of them. So, they have the potential for a whole lot of information.

But you know, there have been events -- TWA 800, for instance -- which was pretty much inconclusive as to what brought that airplane down to this day. There are some theories -- there's an accepted theory -- but initially, everybody thought it was either a terrorist act or a terrible accident involving a missile.

This may not be answered. We may never know for sure what brought these planes down. But I suspect that most people are going along with the theory, given all of the evidence, that this was probably a terrorist act.

COLLINS: We will continue to follow the story, of course. Charles Slepian, thanks so much for your insight on all of it.

SLEPIAN: Thanks for inviting me.

COLLINS: And now, still to come this morning, could a computer replace the birth control pill? We're "Paging Dr. Gupta" on that. Stay with us here on AMERICAN MORNING. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: All right. Welcome back, everyone, and the "Question of the Day" with Jack.

CAFFERTY: Thank you, Bill.

An anti-GOP umbrella group, something called United for Peace and Justice, was denied a permit to demonstrate on the Great Lawn in Central Park. They've been told they can protest near Madison Square Garden, which is the site of the convention, but not on the Great Lawn of the Park.

The city spent about $18 million to restore that lawn a few years back; doesn't want it destroyed again. And there's also an argument about stretching the available security forces too thin if they have to corral a 250,000 person bunch up there in the Park.

The question: Is it right to keep the protesters out of Central Park?

Ira in Madison, Georgia, says: "I've read the Constitution. I can't find anything that says anyone has a right to demonstrate in Central Park. I think the Republican Convention should provide a demonstration site equal to that given demonstrators by the Democratic Convention." Actually, it's the City of Boston and the City of New York, and I don't think the conventions have anything to do with it, but thank you.

Doug in Bloomfield, New Jersey: "A quarter million war protesters stomping around in Central Park could make the resident gophers as nervous as the mayor. But a calm rally in the Park is better for all than an ugly one in the streets. The lawn will come back -- I'm not sure the gophers will."

Paul in Sarasota, Florida: "I was a participant of the National (Gay) March in Washington, D.C. The solution for the lawn was we had to pay to replace it as a condition for using the Mall. At the end of the march, the organizers set up 55 gallon drums and people threw money in to cover the cost."

Now, if you want to cause a riot in New York, put 55 gallon drums full of money in Central Park. That will get it done. Trust me.

And the last one is from George in Alexandria, Virginia: "Let the protesters go to Central Park and let George Bush bring his guitar and go bond with them like he plans to do with the fire department men in the firehouse. Maybe he could lead the protesters in 'Blowin' in the Wind,' a paean to his economic policies."

Cruel, George.

HEMMER: The city said that they offered that to the protesters. And they offered, you know, if you want to go ahead and take the Great Lawn, you have to have a backup plan in the event that it rains. And you have to have a slush fund, essentially, if you cause the damage. They could not come up with the money, which helped to lead to the city's decision yesterday.

CAFFERTY: Well, and they also went before two judges, and two judges independent of each other ruled against them -- which that in itself in New York is a bit of -- piece of news.

COLLINS: They'll be in other parts of Central Park, though, just not the Great Lawn. That's what Commissioner Kelly told us. So, obviously, this group is huge.

HEMMER: You know, and the one thing, when protesters are organizing their protests, they always take the numbers and blow them much higher than they turn out to be.

CAFFERTY: Of course.

HEMMER: Now, that may be the case in New York; it may not. Perhaps they live up to the 250,000 number that's been put out there.

COLLINS: That's to apply for the permit...

HEMMER: But if that's the case, can you imagine 250,000 people marching on 7th Avenue? That is a lot of people.

CAFFERTY: It's not going to happen. They're not going to be allowed to march down 7th Avenue either. The other thing is, it may rain Sunday, and if that happens, there won't be...

HEMMER: No, there is a protest march. There's a gathering this weekend.

CAFFERTY: They will not allow 250,000 people to march down 7th Avenue, I don't think. Will they? I don't know. Maybe they will -- on Sunday...

HEMMER: On Sunday.

CAFFERTY: ... when there ain't nothing going on.

HEMMER: That's exactly right.

COLLINS: We'll see how many.

HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.

CAFFERTY: You know what? This is getting a lot more coverage than it's worth, including by us -- including by me.

HEMMER: Whoa, who picked this topic?

CAFFERTY: I did. I said including by me. I include myself.

HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.

In a moment here, a developing story out of Iraq -- fair. We're going to continue to watch the Grand Ayatollah back at his home in Najaf. He's urging Iraqis from all over the country to march in a peaceful way in Najaf.

It was not peaceful earlier today, though. The effect on the fighting, too. What's the impact there? We'll check that out.

Also, in a moment, the raid is burned in the memories of many Americans. Years later, there's a new development in the case of Elian Gonzalez. Back in a moment, bottom of the hour, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired August 26, 2004 - 08:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. I'm Heidi Collins, in for Soledad.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Bill Hemmer. Good morning. Welcome back. Russian officials have now examined the flight recorders from those two planes that crashed yesterday, one after the other. We'll talk about that. Also talk to a man who specializes in air security about what he thinks likely caused those planes to go down. It is a mystery again today by the way.

Also, in women's health, a whole new approach to family planning. Sanjay Gupta will be with us. He'll tell us about a computer that can actually help prevent pregnancy. Interesting.

HEMMER: Also, Jack is back with us. Good morning, Mr. Cafferty, what's happening?

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: A computer that can help prevent pregnancy?

COLLINS: You got it.

HEMMER: Prevent...

CAFFERTY: I want to see the films.

Coming up in "The Cafferty File": We've got finally a dictionary that's coming out in Germany that translates for men who tend to be a little dense of what women really mean when they say things like, get in line. It's not what you think.

And you remember those t-shirts? West Virginia, something about "it's all relative in West Virginia"? Terrible. Well, there's a new one out that's even worse and Kentucky is getting gored in this deal, too. We'll have that in the "File" coming up.

HEMMER: Governors are none too happy. Thank you, Jack.

Let's get right to Carol Costello now, CNN Center, looking at what's happening at the top of the news, top of this hour.

Carol, good morning, again.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Bill. Thank you. A Yemeni man suspected of aiding al Qaeda's propaganda is set to face a military tribunal today at Guantanamo Bay. The man is charged with conspiracy to commit war crimes. Yesterday Australian David Hicks pleaded "not guilty" to all charges again him. Four suspected enemy combatants will undergo preliminary hearings at the U.S. Naval base this week.

An American citizen captured in Afghanistan three years ago has filed new papers claiming he is not an enemy combatant. Yaser Esam Hamdi claims he never fought against U.S. forces. Hamdi was kept in Guantanamo and in U.S. jail since 2001. A federal judge has ordered the U.S. government to bring Hamdi to court on Monday or release him.

The Fay Report released yesterday is opening up new insight into the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal. The report by Army Major General George Fay and Lieutenant General Anthony Jones uses the word "torture" to describe some events and points to failings of military intelligence personnel. More charges expected in connection with the mistreatment.

At the Olympics in Athens, the U.S. and Spain are now having at it in the men's basketball quarterfinals, this all or nothing battle has the struggling U.S. dream team with two losses, but trying to hang on against an undefeated Spanish team. As of 15 minutes ago, the teams were tied 25-25.

So Heidi, it sounds like an exciting game, at least.

COLLINS: Yes. I don't know about that basketball team. Keep cheering them on, though. All right. Thanks so much for that, Carol.

The swift boat controversy moved to Crawford, Texas, yesterday. Vietnam veteran and former senator Max Cleland attempted to deliver to President Bush a letter calling on him to condemn the recent ads attacking John Kerry. Cleland was met instead by the Texas land commissioner, a Vietnam veteran supporting President Bush who also had a letter.

Neither letter, though, reached its intended recipient. Here now some of what transpired.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAX CLELAND (D), FMR. U.S. SENATOR: These scurrilous attacks on John Kerry's credibility in war, his courage, his valor are false, and George Bush is behind it. That's why I tried to deliver a letter at the president's home and hand it to either him or one of his aides, but that was unsuccessful.

JERRY PATTERSON, TEXAS LAND COMMISSIONER: He kept rolling away from me. He would not face me. I attempted to shake his hand. He would not face me. He would not accept my offer of taking the letter and ensuring that it gets delivered to President Bush.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Also yesterday, Ben Ginsberg, chief outside counsel to the Bush campaign resigned because of his association with the swift boat veterans.

Max Cleland's letter did not get to President Bush, but did Cleland still achieve what he wanted to?

The former senator and Vietnam veteran is now live with us this morning from Washington.

Senator Cleland, thanks for being with us.

CLELAND: Good morning.

COLLINS: White House spokesman Scott McClellan actually characterized what happened yesterday on your part as a political stunt.

What do you say to the critics who are saying, delivering letters, continuing to talk about all of this, is really just perpetuating the issue and not getting to the real issues of this campaign?

CLELAND: Well, I think that Scott McClellan ought to look at the videotape of his president landing on an aircraft carrier three weeks into the Iraq war, playing dress-up on an aircraft carrier and saying, "mission accomplished, major combat over, bring them on." And that "bring it on" has resulted in the deaths of almost 1,000 young Americans there and 10,000 wounded, and the chaos that we now see unraveling in Iraq.

COLLINS: Pardon the eruption, but I do ask you, then, was your mission accomplished?

CLELAND: The mission was to carry to the president this plea to, please, stop attacking the credibility and courage and character of John Kerry, because those attacks are false and the president is behind it.

Two campaign officials in the last two weeks have had to resign because of their connection with the swift boat veterans for Bush.

This president has gone after three Vietnam veterans in four years, and it's time for this to stop. John McCain has said these ads against John Kerry are dishonest and dishonorable.

And in today's news, John McCain is going to talk about this with the president personally this weekend and say, Mr. President, please cease and desist. We don't need this in America and it's tearing us Vietnam veterans apart.

COLLINS: Did you get accomplished what you wanted to get accomplished yesterday?

CLELAND: I'm trying to make sure that nine members of the United States Senate, all of whom served in the military, one of whom won the Medal of Honor, that their message was delivered. It was a message from the United States senators, nine of them asking the president to stop these attacks on John Kerry's character and courage. Now we have 19 members of the United States House of Representatives, all of whom who have served in the American military, saying the same thing to the president.

And more and more veterans around this country are saying to the president, Mr. President, stop these negative attacks on John Kerry, because this is what's happening: What is happening here is the president is trying to cover up the tragedy in Iraq, the sense in which he has made more enemies abroad than friends, and the disastrous record in losing more jobs that he's created in this country.

COLLINS: Let me, if I may, talk about some other veterans.

The president's representative yesterday, who was also a Vietnam veteran as you know, Jerry Patterson, tried to hand you that letter -- I want to, just for a moment, to show on the screen part of that letter. It says this: "You accused your fellow veterans" -- of course, addressing this to Senator John Kerry -- "of terrible atrocities and to this day you have never apologized. Even last night, you claim to be proud of your post-war condemnation of our actions."

Don't you risk by highlighting that, that this is just being dragged out in an area that don't want it to be dragged out into?

CLELAND: Well, first of all, that letter does not state the facts.

John Kerry is proud of his service, as am I, and 3.5 million veterans who served in Vietnam are basically proud of our service to our country. We realize that George Bush did not and Dick Cheney did not.

But be that as it may, the truth of the matter is that John Kerry is proud of his service. He served with great distinction.

And the point is, this president is behind the scurrilous attacks on John Kerry's character and courage, and that should stop, because first of all, as John McCain has said, it's dishonest and dishonorable, and it's also illegal. That's why two members of the president's campaign team associated with these attacks have resigned in the last two weeks.

COLLINS: I was not aware that was illegal. In fact, we talked about that earlier today.

Senator Max Cleland, we certainly appreciate your time. Thanks so much.

CLELAND: Thank you.

HEMMER: Let's go from Washington now, Heidi, over to Iraq again. The powerful Iraqi Shiite leader Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani is in Najaf. In fact, he arrived just about an hour ago, leading a peace effort to end the standoff between U.S. troops, Iraqi forces and those forces loyal to radical Shiite leader Muqtada al-Sadr. Those forces now still in and around the Imam Ali Mosque. Kianne Sadeq is back on the phone with us, CNN producer on the scene there from Najaf.

What do you have this hour -- Kianne.

KIANNE SADEQ, CNN PRODUCER: Yes, Bill, well, I'm right outside the house where the grand ayatollah, Ali al-Sistani, arrived just a little while ago. And his spokesman -- we spoke to his spokesman, Hamid al-Khafaf, who told us that Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani has come to Najaf against the orders of the doctors because he wanted to hurry up and come over to end this crisis.

Now, he called on all demonstrators who were in Kufa and all other provinces of Iraq to stay where they are at this time and not to move any further towards the old Najaf until further notice.

He also said that they had five goals that they were attempting to accomplish in their time here. They wanted all armed persons out of Najaf and Kufa. They want no arms in Najaf and Kufa. They said we want all foreign forces out of Najaf as well.

He said that they want compensation for those who were affected by this conflict, and he wanted the solve all these problems of Iraq through a legitimate election.

Now Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani is still in this house, resting as he has had a long trip over here from Basra today.

Back to you, Bill.

HEMMER: Kianne, quickly, do we know the relationship at this point between Sistani and al-Sadr? And also do we have any indication as to whether or not the militia members loyal to al-Sadr would listen to Sistani if he made the plea to get out of Najaf and that shrine now?

SADEQ: Yes, well we asked a spokesman regarding what is happening at this time, and they said that they have begun phone calls with al-Sadr's people, and they have begun the negotiations process, but they said that this process was new, and that they have not yet reached any conclusions as they have just arrived.

Muqtada Al Sadr's people are very, very loyal to him. And at this time, what I get from those people is that they will listen to Muqtada al-Sadr. The question is, (INAUDIBLE) between Muqtada al-Sadr and the Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani.

Back to you, Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Kianne Sadeq, thanks for that update there in Najaf, outside the home of the grand ayatollah there, arriving back at his home after he had been treated for the past several days in London for a heart condition, all this coming on the heels of the news that broke overnight here at stateside.

In Iraq, these protesters who gathered for a peaceful march in Najaf in the nearby town of Kufa coming under mortar attack there. At least 25 dead. One reports says at least 60 others are wounded. That continues to be a significant headline out of Iraq at this hour. We will follow that.

In the meantime, back in this country, 11 minutes past the hour.

Back to courtroom now, where the judge in the Kobe Bryant matter will hold an emergency hearing today over allegations that DNA evidence was contaminated.

Alex's Stone, a radio reporter from Denver, back with us live this morning here on AMERICAN MORNING.

Al, it's good to have you.

ALEX STONE, RADIO REPORTER: Hi, Bill. Good morning.

HEMMER: The prosecution wants the question of reliability of the DNA defense experts. How did do they plan on doing this and what's the beef?

STONE: Yes, a lot of people, Bill, are saying this isn't an 11- hour appeal to the judge, this is an 11th-hour and 59-minute appeal, asking for some sort of relief here. The prosecution is saying that some of the evidence that's been tested by this DNA expert in Southern California was tainted or manipulated in some way, and saying that it should be tossed out.

This is a big day, Bill, for the prosecution, because if they can prove to the judge that this evidence needs to be tossed out, the defense would have some serious trouble trying to prove that the accuser had multiple sex partners around the time she was with Kobe Bryant, this theory that we've been talking about for months now, that the accuser may have had sex with somebody between the time she was with Kobe Bryant and the time she went to police to report the alleged rape. It's a 15-hour window. Without the DNA, the defense would have a tough time proving that, because still says she did not have sex with anybody.

HEMMER: And that is a significant part of the defense argument that we have found out already.

Back to the prosecution's claim. What do they say is tainted on this evidence?

STONE: They say that there are several areas. They say one is that some of the data appears to have been whited out or changed in some way. They also say that the control samples, samples that in DNA testing and forensics should come up us negatives. They claim that they came up with DNA on them, that these are blank slides that are used to make sure that everything is clean and everything is working properly. They say they have evidence that they came up with DNA testing, and that someone may have been manipulated.

HEMMER: So that hearing is today then, and the schedule is to go ahead and weed through the prospective jurors beginning tomorrow. Is that still going to happen?

STONE: Yes, this is just hours before all of this is supposed to happen. The trial technically starts tomorrow. The jury will be -- the selection process will start tomorrow. It's expected to last about a week. Nine-hundred and ninety nine summons went out to potential jurors in Eagle County, really because it's such a transient county, because it's a ski resort community. The court doesn't know how many will show up tomorrow, but they'll fill out a 115-question questionnaire, and then be called back next week for one-on-one interviews for the jury selection process.

HEMMER: Thanks, Alex, KOA Denver radio reporter there in Colorado. Nice to talk to you.

STONE: Thanks, Bill.

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HEMMER: In a moment here, remember Elian? Four years now since agents whisked him away from his family in Miami. Now there is a new development in this matter, update on that in a moment here.

COLLINS: Also ahead, the 2004 presidential race is heating up with a big controversy, but it's nothing new. We're going to talk to a man who's covered 40 years worth.

HEMMER: Also, those two Russian plane crashes. One expert says only two things could be to blame. He does not think it was human error. We'll talk to him in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.

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COLLINS: This morning, a top Russian official says terrorism remains the main theory following Tuesday's near-simultaneous crashes of two Russian jetliners. The planes went down about 450 miles apart in Tula and Rostov after taking off from the same Moscow airport. New reports today now say the plane's flight data recorders are not giving any clues as to what happened.

Charles Slepian is an aviation security analyst. He is joining me now this morning with more on all of this.

OK, so they're still looking at the flight data recorders, trying to glean as much information from them as they can. But what do you make of this overall picture here? Two planes taking off and crashing pretty closely together timeframe-wise? What's your initial reaction?

CHARLES SLEPIAN, AVIATION SECURITY ANALYST: Airplanes don't just fall out of the sky. They come down either because somebody intentionally wants them to come down or there's come kind of human error which leads to a maintenance fault or flying through a storm, or something of that nature.

There is no evidence here of the second category. It appears as though that these planes were brought to the ground as the result of an intentional act. And if you look at the evidence, and there is some evidence to indicate that that was the case.

COLLINS: The hijacking alert. SLEPIAN: Well, there's the hijacking alert. There are witnesses who heard explosions from the ground. The pattern of debris on the ground. The fact that there is an upcoming election, that there is unrest in the region, and that there is a group that commits acts of terrorism. The fact there was a bombing in a bus station, some hours earlier the same day, all would lean toward the theory that this was a terrorist act.

Absence some other indication that this was a mechanical act of some kind, or some other cause that brought them to the ground, we have to go with the notion of terrorism.

COLLINS: All right. We also know that the flight data recorders, as we mentioned, being taken back to Moscow for analysis. How long -- just so people have an idea of this process -- how long does it usually take to decode them?

SLEPIAN: It could take from days to weeks depending on what they're looking for. The flight data recorder will tell you about a mechanical failure. It'll tell you whether there was something wrong with the fuel, for instance, whether there was a flame-out onboard the aircraft. The flight data recorder may indicate a sound that indicates an explosion onboard. It may have a voice message indicating a...

COLLINS: We've got -- we've got not only flight data recorders, which are different from cockpit voice recorders...

SLEPIAN: Yes.

COLLINS: ... we've got both here. So, that's quite a bit of information.

SLEPIAN: Well, it's the black boxes in general, and they have them -- all of them. So, they have the potential for a whole lot of information.

But you know, there have been events -- TWA 800, for instance -- which was pretty much inconclusive as to what brought that airplane down to this day. There are some theories -- there's an accepted theory -- but initially, everybody thought it was either a terrorist act or a terrible accident involving a missile.

This may not be answered. We may never know for sure what brought these planes down. But I suspect that most people are going along with the theory, given all of the evidence, that this was probably a terrorist act.

COLLINS: We will continue to follow the story, of course. Charles Slepian, thanks so much for your insight on all of it.

SLEPIAN: Thanks for inviting me.

COLLINS: And now, still to come this morning, could a computer replace the birth control pill? We're "Paging Dr. Gupta" on that. Stay with us here on AMERICAN MORNING. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: All right. Welcome back, everyone, and the "Question of the Day" with Jack.

CAFFERTY: Thank you, Bill.

An anti-GOP umbrella group, something called United for Peace and Justice, was denied a permit to demonstrate on the Great Lawn in Central Park. They've been told they can protest near Madison Square Garden, which is the site of the convention, but not on the Great Lawn of the Park.

The city spent about $18 million to restore that lawn a few years back; doesn't want it destroyed again. And there's also an argument about stretching the available security forces too thin if they have to corral a 250,000 person bunch up there in the Park.

The question: Is it right to keep the protesters out of Central Park?

Ira in Madison, Georgia, says: "I've read the Constitution. I can't find anything that says anyone has a right to demonstrate in Central Park. I think the Republican Convention should provide a demonstration site equal to that given demonstrators by the Democratic Convention." Actually, it's the City of Boston and the City of New York, and I don't think the conventions have anything to do with it, but thank you.

Doug in Bloomfield, New Jersey: "A quarter million war protesters stomping around in Central Park could make the resident gophers as nervous as the mayor. But a calm rally in the Park is better for all than an ugly one in the streets. The lawn will come back -- I'm not sure the gophers will."

Paul in Sarasota, Florida: "I was a participant of the National (Gay) March in Washington, D.C. The solution for the lawn was we had to pay to replace it as a condition for using the Mall. At the end of the march, the organizers set up 55 gallon drums and people threw money in to cover the cost."

Now, if you want to cause a riot in New York, put 55 gallon drums full of money in Central Park. That will get it done. Trust me.

And the last one is from George in Alexandria, Virginia: "Let the protesters go to Central Park and let George Bush bring his guitar and go bond with them like he plans to do with the fire department men in the firehouse. Maybe he could lead the protesters in 'Blowin' in the Wind,' a paean to his economic policies."

Cruel, George.

HEMMER: The city said that they offered that to the protesters. And they offered, you know, if you want to go ahead and take the Great Lawn, you have to have a backup plan in the event that it rains. And you have to have a slush fund, essentially, if you cause the damage. They could not come up with the money, which helped to lead to the city's decision yesterday.

CAFFERTY: Well, and they also went before two judges, and two judges independent of each other ruled against them -- which that in itself in New York is a bit of -- piece of news.

COLLINS: They'll be in other parts of Central Park, though, just not the Great Lawn. That's what Commissioner Kelly told us. So, obviously, this group is huge.

HEMMER: You know, and the one thing, when protesters are organizing their protests, they always take the numbers and blow them much higher than they turn out to be.

CAFFERTY: Of course.

HEMMER: Now, that may be the case in New York; it may not. Perhaps they live up to the 250,000 number that's been put out there.

COLLINS: That's to apply for the permit...

HEMMER: But if that's the case, can you imagine 250,000 people marching on 7th Avenue? That is a lot of people.

CAFFERTY: It's not going to happen. They're not going to be allowed to march down 7th Avenue either. The other thing is, it may rain Sunday, and if that happens, there won't be...

HEMMER: No, there is a protest march. There's a gathering this weekend.

CAFFERTY: They will not allow 250,000 people to march down 7th Avenue, I don't think. Will they? I don't know. Maybe they will -- on Sunday...

HEMMER: On Sunday.

CAFFERTY: ... when there ain't nothing going on.

HEMMER: That's exactly right.

COLLINS: We'll see how many.

HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.

CAFFERTY: You know what? This is getting a lot more coverage than it's worth, including by us -- including by me.

HEMMER: Whoa, who picked this topic?

CAFFERTY: I did. I said including by me. I include myself.

HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.

In a moment here, a developing story out of Iraq -- fair. We're going to continue to watch the Grand Ayatollah back at his home in Najaf. He's urging Iraqis from all over the country to march in a peaceful way in Najaf.

It was not peaceful earlier today, though. The effect on the fighting, too. What's the impact there? We'll check that out.

Also, in a moment, the raid is burned in the memories of many Americans. Years later, there's a new development in the case of Elian Gonzalez. Back in a moment, bottom of the hour, after this.

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