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DIPLOMATIC LICENSE
Current Events at the United Nations
Aired September 3, 2004 - 21:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, U.S. PRESIDENT: Some folks look at me and see a certain swagger, which in Texas is called walking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your money where your mouth is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sanctions don't -- it's not like Cinderella's carriage. It doesn't -- they don't just go away or turn into a pumpkin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD ROTH, CNN ANCHOR: So what do we know about U.S. foreign policy in the future after President Bush's convention speech? We analyzed after Democratic nominee John Kerry's speech, and today the president's, who told delegates in New York we will build a safer world and nothing will hold us back.
Welcome to DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. We started 11 years ago this weekend. I'm Richard Roth.
The Bush global mantra: democracy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I believe that America is called to lead the cause of freedom in a new century. I believe that millions in the Middle East plead in silence for their liberty. I believe that given the chance, they will embrace the most honorable form of government ever devised by man. I believe all these things because freedom is not America's gift to the world, it is the Almighty God's gift to every man and woman in this world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Mr. Bush defended his decision to invade Iraq, saying Saddam Hussein was a terrorist madman. He said he was proud of 30 countries joining the United States in Iraq, and 40 in Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Again, my opponent takes a different approach. In the midst of war, he has called American allies, quote, a "coalition of the coerced and the bribed." That would be nations like Great Britain, Poland, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Denmark, El Salvador, Australia, and others - allies that deserve the respect of all Americans, not the scorn of a politician.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: How does this speech play around the world? Some perspective.
Joining us from Washington is the Netherlands' ambassador to the United States, Boudewijn van Eenennaam. His country is currently president of the 25-nation European Union. Also in Washington, Jacqueline Graspin, president of the European Institute.
Ambassador, your nation, the Netherlands, got some kudos from President Bush. What were your impressions of his speech regarding Iraq?
BOUDEWIJN VAN EENENNAAM, NETHERLANDS AMB. TO U.S.: Well, you know, Richard, on this specific point of the president, I can assure you that the Netherlands is participating with about 1,400 military people in Iraq on the basis of our own analysis, on the basis of our own responsibility.
We have not been coerced. We have not been bribed. We did that from our own responsibility, to help the people in Iraq develop a.
ROTH: Well, you know, in 2003 you said you were troubled, perhaps, by the monopoly of power without checks and balances, when the United States went around the United Nations -- arrogance of power, you said, is a troubling thing. Do you still feel that way regarding the United States invading Iraq and still being there with its occupation forces in effect?
VAN EENENNAAM: Well, you know, I think it's always better if you can come to these kinds of very important conclusions in coordination with other countries.
Of course, we are in close contact with our U.S. allies, but I really want to stress that the Netherlands is a proud country, that we made these decisions on the basis of our own analysis and our own responsibilities.
ROTH: All right. Jacqueline Graspin, what did you think of this Bush speech?
JACQUELINE GRASPIN, EUROPEAN INSTITUTE: Well, I thought it was a very good speech, well prepared, well written, well delivered.
But I do not think it will change the opinion of most of the Europeans, which is much more down to earth. We are surprised that there was absolutely nothing about the deficit, which is going to be a big U.S. problem, and also European problem.
There was absolutely nothing about jobs being lost to third countries, which is also a European concern as well as a U.S. concern. And they're a little worried that this campaign is run on the basis of fear, which in fact frightens other people.
VAN EENENNAAM: Well, let me say, Richard, that obviously there are different views within Europe. We belong to a group of countries in Europe that do participate, that do their duties in Iraq, but there are other countries that have a different view.
We had a big row about that in the beginning of last year in the United Nations Security Council resolution, but I think we are in much better shape now. We are working in the right direction, closing our ranks and also being able to be a better partner to the United States.
ROTH: But where is NATO going to Iraq? Is that going to happen?
VAN EENENNAAM: Well, we are there to a certain extent. I mean, don't forget that there were countries, NATO members, that were very much against the intervention in Iraq, but we have been able now to close ranks for a large part.
I mean, we agree that there should be training of Iraqi military. There are still some issues to be solved, but we are in the right direction.
ROTH: All right, well, at this convention, besides the media and Hollywood, guess which group was a popular target at the Republican convention?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Senator Kerry began his political career by saying he would like to see our troops deployed only at the directive of the United Nations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Kerry has made it clear that he will use military force only if approved by the United Nations. Kerry would let Paris decide when America needs defending. I want Bush to decide.
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA: If you believe that this country, not the United Nations, is best hope for democracy, then you are a Republican.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: The United Nations wouldn't respond to the bashing of the United Nations, but U.S. Ambassador at the United Nations John Danforth, a Republican, did.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN DANFORTH, U.S. AMB. TO U.N.: Well, I can only say that when President Bush asked me to do this job, he said that the United Nations is very important and that this was a very important job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Despite the criticism of the United Nations, Ambassador, I want to get your sense of that criticism of Schwarzenegger and everyone else, and the booing you heard.
VAN EENENNAAM: It's a mistakably so that it would have -- that it's always much, much better if you can decide these important things, like military intervention, on a common basis.
ROTH: Don't you get angry, though, when you hear thousands of people booing the United Nations, a speech that gets beamed to the United States of America? Don't you feel that it is an unwarranted approach and that they're wrong in what they did, making it seem like the United States is not even a member of the United Nations?
VAN EENENNAAM: Well, I'm not easily angered, but I mean, everybody is entitled to his own opinion. I politely disagree with that view. I think you should bring everything to see that you get a consensus in the United Nations.
ROTH: All right. Jacqueline, your comment on the U.N. bashing.
GRASPIN: Well, first I wonder if Senator Kerry did say that, but secondly.
ROTH: Well, he said it in 1970, after coming back from the war. They said it was a university-type of comment. It wasn't a big policy speech. But go ahead.
GRASPIN: Yes. It seems to me we are in 2004. But I defer to the ambassador on this.
As you know, the Netherlands has the president of the European Union right now, and although we have different opinions on this, I think there is a general agreement within the European Union.
ROTH: Jacqueline, is John Kerry going to change the alliances? He says he's going to be able to do something different. Is Paris really going to join the United States in Iraq and will Germany? Will anything really change with John Kerry in the White House? Will Europe change its position?
GRASPIN: I am unable to tell you what Paris is going to do and even less Berlin. But I think that certainly the fact that there would be a new administration would make things easier.
That does not mean that that with a new Bush administration it would not be possible.
ROTH: Ambassador, you gave a speech in Washington earlier in the year, Europe and the United States -- back to back or shoulder to shoulder. What happens with President Kerry, if he's elected?
VAN EENENNAAM: Well, you know, I want to come back to my earlier point. I think that these decisions in Europe, in the Hague and in Paris and in Berlin, are taken on its own merits, and at least I would say for the Netherlands.
I earlier said, we would not be coerced or bribed. And I think that under the same circumstances, we would have taken exactly the same decision to send our troops to Iraq, regardless of what administration is in the Washington.
ROTH: All right. Ambassador, you're not biased, but earlier in the year you presented First Lady Laura Bush a tulip from the Netherlands. This is a custom, right, going back to the 1800's and an earlier President Cleveland administration, and you talked about renewal in the month of April. Has this flower ceremony possibly helped Europe-United States relations?
VAN EENENNAAM: Well, you know, on the one hand, we are, I think, the oldest friends, the Dutch, of the United States. We were the first country to recognize the newly-independent United States in 1776 and we have come a long way together in difficult times. But we do not shy away from criticizing the United States.
These flowers were presented both to the Democratic and the Republican first ladies.
ROTH: Oh, OK.
Final comment, briefly, Jacqueline, on Bush moving ahead. Did he really -- did he make a big difference and now is Kerry on the ropes and is Europe getting ready for Bush 2?
GRASPIN: I don't think the speech yesterday made a big difference. I think the Europeans have an opinion. It will not be changed. It has evolved, you know, since 2002 surveys have shown that the favorable opinions have fallen in the United Kingdom, in Germany, in France. It has fallen from 75 percent to 38 percent.
ROTH: All right. I have to stop there. Thank you both, the Netherlands' Ambassador to the United States, Ambassador Boudewijn van Eenennaam, thank you very much. The Netherlands heads the European Union right now. Jacqueline Graspin, of the European Institute, thank you.
By the way, Arnold Schwarzenegger, in his speech, said when he was a young boy the Soviets occupied part of Austria. He saw the tanks there. Austria now says that's impossible. He was born after the tanks already left.
Despite the criticism of the United Nations by the confident Republican conventioneers, hundreds of young Republicans came for a free tour of the United Nations. The United Nations spokesman said they were well informed visitors. Here you see them arriving at the United Nations. They got a tour of the Security Council and the General Assembly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The United Nations is, I think, it's an alliance between many, many, many countries, and with the United States being a part of it, then of course it's going to be stronger than just one alone. And, I mean, what, two heads are better than one. 191 heads are better than one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The secretary-general condemned in the strongest terms the terrorist attack at a subway station in Moscow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The secretary-general strongly condemns the double terrorist attack today in the Israeli city of Bethsherba (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Regarding the killing of the 12 Nepalese hostages in Iraq, through a statement the secretary-general said he was appalled and dismayed by the gruesome murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The secretary-general was appalled to learn that more than 100 pupils are being held hostage at a secondary school in Beslan, Russian Federation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: No, the title hasn't been changed to U.N. Secretary-General of Condemnation.
Welcome back to DIPLOMATIC LICENSE.
It just seemed that way this week as a blizzard of bad news prompted the vacationing Kofi Annan to issue statements about terrorist attacks around the globe, Annan saying he was horrified at the large number of school children killed or wounded in the hostage siege in Russia.
Officials are investigating possible al Qaeda links.
The United Nations doesn't have its own police force, but the Security Council has imposed sanctions on al Qaeda connected suspects and assets, but its latest al Qaeda committee report says sanctions are having a limited affect and al Qaeda is staying ahead of them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are at a critical juncture. We either strengthen the sanctions regime that the U.N. Security Council has implemented, or we risk those sanctions falling into irrelevancy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: The special sanctions monitoring team has had a staff shakeup this year. The new coordinator is Richard Barrett.
Mr. Barrett, welcome.
You report to the Chilean ambassador, who we just saw there. You're meeting with Saudi Arabian officials over the weekend in Saudi Arabia. Is that government providing enough information for you?
RICHARD BARRETT, U.N. SANCTIONS MONITORING COMMITTEE: Saudi Arabian government is facing a very real problem. The terrorists there are determined to unseat them and to cause them as much difficulty as possible. And the Saudi government has gotten very serious on this problem and they're working hard against it.
ROTH: Are the Saudi charity reforms they've implemented, are these just cosmetic?
BARRETT: I don't believe so, no. The whole issue of charity is, as you know, a very sensitive one, and the Saudis really are trying to address this problem, and we look forward to discussing with them what we might do to help.
ROTH: Do you see money coming from the Saudis going towards groups that back terrorist activities?
BARRETT: Well, there's a lot of donors who are prepared, unfortunately, to back this sort of activity, and I'm sure some of them may be in Saudi Arabia, which is why the Saudis are taking this action.
ROTH: Why haven't sanctions been working, as the chairman of the panel just eluded to there?
BARRETT: Well, I think things have moved on since sanctions were introduced. They were introduced to essentially address a different set of circumstances than the ones we face today. And I believe that sanctions, these sanctions themselves may not be working so well, but there is still a place for sanctions.
ROTH: What would you like to see done?
BARRETT: Well, I'd like to see us address in particular this sort of threat that we're facing now, and I think we need to analyze that in discussion with particular member states which are facing this threat. And by analyzing it and by looking at the methodology of the terrorists, then we can help the Zion sanctions work a little bit more effectively.
ROTH: But can such a big group, like the United Nations, with so many different countries, really work together when, as the ambassador once told me, another country doesn't want to tell on another and say they have somebody and get into an extradition fight.
BARRETT: Well, this is a very good point, but I believe, so, yes. All the countries that I've spoken to very much recognize that this is a problem which affects us all, not just some particular states. This is an international, global problem, and the countries that I have spoken to are very keen to get engaged with that.
I believe that the role of the United Nations is to raise the sense of awareness of the problem itself, of the threat, the nature of the threat, and indeed to increase the sense of shared responsibility, to deal with it.
ROTH: Which countries are not cooperating?
BARRETT: I believe all countries are cooperating, but their response is different. That's how we should look at it. And I think there's a role for the United Nations in trying to bring that response together in a more coordinated fashion.
ROTH: How do you know when a country is not doing enough? Have you gone in and said, look, you don't have a watch list, the airport is an open sieve. What's -- how do you know?
BARRETT: Yes, well, that -- those are important issues, but I think our approach to countries is to go and say, OK, you had this problem, how are you dealing with it, how do you see it, what do you think further needs to be done. How can the international community help you with that.
ROTH: Did you learn anything from the latest concluding 9/11 panel report in the United States about al Qaeda and how it affects your work?
BARRETT: Well, I think it was a very interesting report, of course, but it did look back at an event which is now already someway in the past.
But some of the lessons that the 9/11 Commission were able to tell us I think are still valid today.
ROTH: Do you have the means really to stop terrorism or are you in the United Nations really a collection agency awareness function?
BARRETT: The fight is a national fight, you know, quite clearly it's member states who have to take the lead in all of this. They're on the front line.
But I believe the United Nations also has a role. As I said earlier, this is a global problem. It demands a global response. And I think the United Nations can help individual member states take more affective action.
ROTH: How much is the United States cooperating?
BARRETT: The United States, of course, is intensely engaged through this whole process. We find great support from them in our work on the committee, and of course they have great interest bilaterally with many member states in promoting the fight against terrorism.
ROTH: Two days ago, President Bush said you can't win the war on terrorism. His aides said he was referring to the long-running issue. But what do you think? Can the war be won?
BARRETT: Well, I think you can win battles. I think it's very hard to say whether you've won the war or not. This is going to go on for a long, long time, but the more battles we win, obviously the closer we may get to winning the war.
ROTH: I mean, a lot of people were worried about bombings in convention week. It didn't happen. How big a threat is al Qaeda right now to the United States?
BARRETT: Well, this is the problem, because it's so difficult to assess how bit the threat is and where it's going to strike. We've just seen these dreadful events in Russia. You know, there are some reports now that Arab fighters were involved in that. There may be al Qaeda connections there.
You cannot tell where al Qaeda will strike and in what form, and this is one of the dreadful things about the threat.
ROTH: It's more of a loose organization in a lot of countries.
Richard Barrett, got to stop you there. You're the new coordinator with the U.N. Sanctions Panel Committee. Thank you very much for appearing on DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. Since al Qaeda will always around, I'm sure you'll be back.
BARRETT: Thanks a lot.
ROTH: Thank you.
Of course, as the ambassador who leads the al Qaeda sanctions mission puts it, when you are dealing with 191 countries, speed is a problem. But Chile's Heraldo Munoz hopes the U.N. investigation will not turn into the lumbering symbol of the U.S. Republican Party, whose convention stole some attention from the international crowd across town.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even though we may be sometimes slow, sometimes slow to move, like an Elephant, since we're talking these days in New York, that once we turn around and move and we get countries acting, I think this is the way to proceed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once month is not enough. We're a big school and maybe a whole life -- one needs a whole life to be well-adapted to such school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Russia's new ambassador at the United Nations, Andrei Denisov, after running the Security Council as president for a month. He thanked his fellow ambassadors for solving some diplomatic procedural riddles and said he got good grades in school anyway, so he doesn't expect to fail.
No sooner had the Russian ambassador left the presidency chair when a busy September erupted in the Security Council.
The United States and France working together. The target: Syria. Washington and Paris wanted to stop the Lebanese Parliament from skipping an election and keeping Lebanese President Emile Lahud in office for another three years.
Despite a plea by Lebanon to withdraw the resolution, the Security Council narrowly passed the resolution, which called for the immediate withdrawal of all foreign forces, without naming Syria, though that's the only country with forces in Lebanon.
The resolution based with a bare minimum nine votes required. Six countries abstained, including Algeria and Pakistan.
Syria has 17,000 troops in Lebanon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What the Lebanese people and we have witnessed over the past week in terms of Syrian actions is a crude mockery of this principle. It is clear that Lebanese parliamentarians have been pressured and even threatened by Syria and its agents to make them comply.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Syria is not a foreign force in Lebanon. Syria has entered Lebanon under an agreement and at the request of the official, legal Lebanese government. We don't feel we are meant by this and I don't think the Council means it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: The Lebanese Parliament on Friday disregarded the Security Council call.
From Syria to Sudan. The Security Council may soon discuss next steps on the humanitarian crisis in Darfur. Special envoy to Sudan, Jan Pronk, told the Council Sudan has not clamped down on the rampaging Janjaweed militias.
Yes, progress in areas of access of aid and human rights people, but not on the big issues. So far, only 80 African Union monitors there along with 300 African soldiers.
So the major question is keep calibrated pressure on Sudan and hope refugees get protection or demand access for peacekeepers to stop the killings.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We urge the government if it is unable to fully protect its citizens by itself to seek, request and accept assistance from the international community.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think that that presence can be conditioned on whether the government of Sudan concludes that it can't do the job itself. I believe that all of the international pressure on the government of Sudan right now has to be focused on the expanded A.U. presence. I think without that kind of pressure, the government of Sudan will do its usual job of trying to float through this thing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop killing children in Darfur.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop killing children in Darfur.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop killing children in Darfur.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Danforth said at one point, sanctions are not the be all and end all.
While the Security Council consulted, 30 Sudanese from Darfur stood outside the United Nations asking for more action. One of the protestors approached me and asked can the Security Council see us.
That's DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. I'm Richard Roth, in New York. Thanks for watching.
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