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CNN Live At Daybreak
Hurricane Frances Approaches Florida; New Developments in Russian Hostage Crisis
Aired September 03, 2004 - 05:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: A monster hurricane is pounding the Bahamas right now. The next target for Frances: Florida.
It is Friday, September 3.
This is DAYBREAK.
And good morning to you.
From the CNN Global Headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Costello.
Now in the news, stocking up, boarding up and getting out. Millions of people are under mandatory evacuation orders this morning as Hurricane Frances batters the Bahamas and zeros in on Florida's east coast. The storm has weakened, but only a little, and it is expected to regain strength.
Two explosions were heard this morning near that school in Russia where militants have been holding children hostage for two days now. The gunmen are refusing to accept food, water and medicine for their captives.
The Republican National Convention is wrapped, with President Bush telling the delegates it's a time for hope. In his acceptance speech, the president mentioned 15 domestic priorities, but gave no details.
Downgraded a notch for now, but still big and bad and heading for Florida. Hurricane Frances has millions of people on the run this morning. Mandatory evacuation orders are in effect for more than a dozen Florida counties, most of them along the Atlantic Coast.
We're covering this storm this morning with CNN's John Zarrella in West Palm Beach and our own meteorologist, Chad Myers, who is tracking the storm from Melbourne.
Let's start with you, Chad -- good morning.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Carol.
Let me set the scene for you. I flew into Orlando last night and as I got into Orlando, I'm not kidding you, there were cars 100 deep trying to get gas yesterday. Eighty percent of the gas stations were completely empty. Everybody else, they were following gasoline trucks. I'm not kidding you. There were gasoline trucks driving down the roadway. People were following them to find out where they were going to stop, to where they were going to fill up the gas stations. It was a madhouse in Orlando yesterday.
Then I drove 50 miles farther east, closer to where the hurricane is going to hit, and everything was calm. Why was it calm? Everything was boarded up and everybody is gone from here, Carol. It's absolutely a ghost town here in Melbourne Beach.
COSTELLO: Well, I think that's probably good news.
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: Talk about this storm. It has slowed down just a bit.
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: What does that mean?
MYERS: That means that landfall won't be probably until tomorrow morning, although Rob Marciano is in the weather office and he's been tracking it inch by inch across the satellite picture. I have not been able to do that here, obviously, on this remote location.
But as it gets closer, it's also going to probably sit itself over what's called the Gulf Stream. Just offshore here, there's a pocket of warm water. That pocket of warm water actually starts way back, almost by Cancun. It goes through the Florida Straits and then between here and the Bahamas runs up the East Coast, all the way even to North Carolina and South Carolina. And sometimes that warm water will even get to the Jersey shore.
So, that's when you get the warm water up there and sometimes you get the extra sharks up there, too, as the water swirls around. That happened a couple of years ago.
But as that water, and as that warm water there gets into that hurricane, that hurricane could gain strength, just as you were saying. And obviously that's already in the forecast from the Hurricane Center.
COSTELLO: Chad, thank you.
We'll get back to you.
MYERS: All right.
COSTELLO: Down the coast from where Chad is in Melbourne, in West Palm Beach, is our own John Zarrella.
John is at a school that's been converted into a temporary shelter.
It doesn't look very full, though -- John.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, we're in the cafeteria and, all of the people are housed in other buildings. I took a walk around here, and they are literally in the auditorium and they are lining the floors of the corridors, outside of classrooms. This is one of 28 shelters in Palm Beach County. There are actually a capacity of about 47,000 people. And in this shelter tonight, in all these other buildings in this school, there are some 1,900 people. This may be the most packed shelter there is. But this place has the capacity of over 5,000 people.
And I was talking to the shelter manager just a few minutes ago and he was telling me that, you know, if there's a silver lining, if anything has come out of all this, it's the Charley factor. And people have taken this very, very seriously. When they opened the shelter yesterday -- it was officially supposed to open at 2:00 p.m. in the afternoon. He got here at 12:00 and there were people already waiting, about 60 people, to come into the shelter.
So, all up and down the East Coast, the memory of Charley just three weeks ago very fresh in folks' minds and they are getting out. Yesterday was no exception here in Palm Beach County. Traffic absolutely horrendous on the highways, as folks were leaving the Barrier Islands and leaving the mandatory evacuation areas to come inland.
And as the storm approaches and gets closer, certainly these shelters in Palm Beach County will probably fill up more.
No exact number on the total numbers of people at the 28 shelters. By 5:00 yesterday afternoon, there were some 3,000 people in the shelters, but that number certainly swelled in the overnight hours as people began to flow in. And again, here, up to 1,900 people, Carol.
So, this coming night we'll probably see even more folks in the shelters as Hurricane Frances gets ever closer to the Florida coastline -- Carol.
COSTELLO: John Zarrella reporting live from Florida this morning.
And of course, we'll get back to you for more later.
At last report, shelters for refugees, I guess, were open in 11 Florida counties and were being prepared in others. Here are some hurricane help lines for you.
The Florida Emergency Information 24 hour hotline is 1-800-342- 3557.
The American Red Cross, 1-800-HELP-NOW.
And valuable information is now available on our Web site, including a map of Hurricane Frances' projected path and links to emergency information and resources. That's at cnn.com/hurricanes.
Now to the political storm swirling over the nation. President Bush has made his pitch. You might have watched. He says the nation has reached a time for hope.
Our Eric Philips has a wrap-up on the big night at the Republican National Convention.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE W. BUSH (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mr. Chairman, delegates, fellow citizens, I'm honored by your support and I accept your nomination for president of the United States.
ERIC PHILIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Delegates greeted the president with chants of "Four more years!" Mr. Bush defended his record on the economy, job creation, education and prescription drug coverage. On homeland security, he took the offensive.
BUSH: If America shows uncertainty or weakness in this decade, the world will drift toward tragedy. This will not happen on my watch.
PHILIPS: New York Governor George Pataki introduced the president and defended his decision to go to war.
GOV. GEORGE PATAKI (R), NEW YORK: There are those who still say that there was no reason to liberate Iraq. They ask about weapons of mass destruction. On September 11 in New York, we learned that in the hands of a monster, a box cutter is a weapon of mass destruction.
PHILIPS: Bush wound up his acceptance speech with words of inspiration about a future of hope and the peace we all want. Republicans hope they'll have even more reason to celebrate come November 2.
(on camera): But if the protesters have anything to do with it, that won't happen. More than 1,800 have been arrested since demonstrations first began last Friday.
At Madison Square Garden in New York, I'm Eric Philips, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: The November 2 general election is not that far away. Sixty days from today you'll be heading to the polls. I know you will.
Here's where the candidates are today. President and Mrs. Bush spent the night in Scranton, Pennsylvania. About four hours from now, the president will address a group in Moosic. That's near Scranton. And shortly before 1:00 p.m. Eastern, he'll be in Wisconsin for a rally in suburban Milwaukee. Later this afternoon, the president will head to Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
As for Senator John Kerry, he is campaigning in Ohio this morning. He's got a town hall style meeting and a rally later this morning in Newark, Ohio. And then he'll spend the night in Akron.
Ohio, as you know by now, is one of about 17 so-called battleground states. In Springfield, Ohio last night, Senator Kerry criticized President Bush as, quoting here, "unfit to lead this nation." He used an expression common in Texas that refers to wannabe cowboys who pretend to be what they're not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have five words for America -- this is your wake up call.
And I want to sum up -- let me sum up my response to the president's speech in four words -- all hat, no cattle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: For more on the Republican convention, including President Bush's plan for the future and a look at how the political pundits rate his speech, log onto our Web site at cnn.com.
We will track the path of Hurricane Frances for you just as long as this storm has steam. But at 15 minutes past the hour, we'll get a perspective on the storm usually reserved for wind blown seagulls. At 23 minutes past, we'll get a look at how the legal game has changed for Kobe Bryant in Colorado.
And it's on to Russia after the half hour. We're still trying to nail down the numbers on the number of children being held hostage. This already harrowing story could get worse.
But first, here's a look at what else is making news this Friday morning.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
COSTELLO: And we do have breaking news to tell you about. We've been talking a lot in the past several days about that elementary school in Russia near the Chechen border. Dozens and dozens of schoolchildren being held hostage. There was a loud explosion just heard there and we can hear automatic gunfire.
Ryan Chilcote is live on the phone with the latest.
Let's pause for a second, Ryan, and allow people to listen to what's happening right outside of that school.
RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well -- I'm not sure I can hear you too well. But we have more gunfire. This is...
COSTELLO: Ryan, we can hear the gunfire. We're going to pun up your microphone right now on the phone line so you can tell us what's happening.
CHILCOTE: OK.
COSTELLO: Thank you.
CHILCOTE: I'm not sure if you can see me.
Can you see me?
COSTELLO: We cannot see you. We see a live picture from near the school. I don't think we can see the building itself, though.
CHILCOTE: OK. But you're not seeing me?
COSTELLO: No. We can hear you, though.
CHILCOTE: OK, let me explain what's going on here. I'm going to pull this -- we're going to bring up our video phone if we can here.
There's been small arms fire over the last -- it began about 10, 15 minutes ago. It was accompanied with some grenade launcher fire coming from the vicinity of the school.
We have seen this before, but this is definitely one of the more significant outbreaks we've seen so far.
The crowd has been pushed (ph) back. And people -- some people have left; some people are still standing around. It's kind of a situation here.
Just let me know when you can see me so that I can show you some of the crowd, the hundreds of relatives that are still out here. Some of them have left, but still hundreds remain. They've been holding vigil here since this hostage crisis began, which is now in its third day.
COSTELLO: Ryan, tell us about these explosions.
Do we know what they were and where exactly they came from?
CHILCOTE: Well, we're pretty sure -- and this is coming from me -- that they came from the school. And I'm pretty sure that they were grenade launched -- launched by a handheld grenade launcher, because we can hear the sound of the initial explosion as they left the grenade launcher. It's usually a very, you know, sort of quiet explosion and then a much larger, of course, explosion upon impact. We heard two of those. Then we heard three or four rounds of automatic gunfire.
So, that's what we've heard here. The crowd has been pushed back. They had already been pushed back last night when we had a similar experience at about 3:00 in the morning here. So, more and more nerve racking experiences for the relatives, who have now endured more than 50 hours of this hostage crisis to deal with.
Some of them are staying put. They think this will blow over, as it has in the past. Some of them have pulled out for fear that perhaps the hostage takers are trying to make their way out of the school.
The problem is that there's just no good information. There is a, basically the entire school area and the vicinity of the school area is not visible. There are buildings in front of it. It's blocked off and the information from Russian officials is scant. So, it's a guessing game. And believe it or not, many people, even in this very chaotic climate, many of the relatives still choosing to stay here.
COSTELLO: Well, just to be more specific about where the gunfire is taking place, we hear the automatic gunfire.
Is that coming from Russian security forces? Is it coming from inside the school? Do you know?
CHILCOTE: Well, I just wanted to let you know, we just got a report from Interfax. A gentleman here was kind enough to show me that some of the hostages -- and this is an unconfirmed report coming from the Russian wire agency Interfax -- that some of the hostages have begun to leave the building. Now, we have no way of confirming this, but this is coming from the Interfax News Agency, a very respected Russian news agency.
They say that some hostages have begun fleeing the building. We have no way to confirm that. We have no vantage point from where we are. All we know is it's not the only gunfire we've heard. There has been sporadic shooting here for -- since we got here yesterday afternoon. But the first reports that perhaps some of the several hundred hostages that are thought to be kept inside the school are now attempting to flee. That's all we know. We're just hearing some more small arms fire.
COSTELLO: Ryan, some hostages were released yesterday, weren't there? About 26?
CHILCOTE: That's right, 26 women and children. The -- one of the women that spoke with journalists said that the only reason that they were released was that the hostage takers felt that the children, most of them under the age of four -- the oldest was eight -- but many of them were one, two and three years old, and the hostage takers felt like they were being too loud and crying too much. So, that's why they released them.
They still have hundreds of children inside of this school. The Russians were saying that there are at least 354 hostages yesterday. They're now saying that that number is off and that there may be hundreds more. We know that there are at least...
COSTELLO: Ryan, Ryan, pause for a second so we can listen to what's happening there in Russia.
CHILCOTE: OK.
COSTELLO: And Ryan, I think we just heard another explosion. You're looking at a live feed out of Russia near that elementary school.
CHILCOTE: Indeed.
COSTELLO: Tell us more.
CHILCOTE: Can you see...
COSTELLO: Go ahead, Ryan.
CHILCOTE: Can you see me?
COSTELLO: We cannot see you as of yet. We still have that same picture up near the school, but it's not exactly on the building.
CHILCOTE: All right. I'd like to be able to show you some of the -- if it's possible to get that picture to our viewers of the crowds here. We're going to show you some pictures of the crowd. If we could get that, that would be great. But it is a bit of a chaotic situation here so hopefully people will just bear with us.
COSTELLO: Ryan, do you want me...
CHILCOTE: What we heard sounded like...
COSTELLO: Ryan, do you want me to let you go so you can get that set up? I have Eli Flournoy...
CHILCOTE: I would like to do that...
COSTELLO: All right.
CHILCOTE: We'll talk to you in two minutes.
COSTELLO: OK. You get busy with that.
I'm going to talk to Eli about what's happening right now in Russia and the information coming into the CNN Newsroom right now as we take a look at this live picture -- and, Eli, explain for us what exactly we're seeing.
This is near the school.
ELI FLOURNOY, CNN SR. INTL. EDITOR: Exactly. What we're seeing right now in this picture -- this is a picture from APTN -- this is a picture to the side of where Ryan is. And you can just barely see in the background there the brown -- by the brown building there are several Russian soldiers who are there.
Now, this is just outside of the school grounds. It's a sort of a fence outside of the school grounds and earlier, about maybe 10 minutes ago, we saw a number of Russian soldiers come running across this picture that you're seeing now, heading from left to right across there.
Of course, it's not clear exactly what is happening with that, but that is about the time when we started hearing the heavy gunfire and several explosions.
COSTELLO: Ryan talked about unconfirmed reports from the, what, Russian Interfax News Agency...
FLOURNOY: That's correct. COSTELLO: ... that people were starting to flee the school.
Can you tell us more about that?
FLOURNOY: Well, what we can tell is that while we still had the picture from Ryan, we were seeing a large number of the family members who are there near where Ryan is, right outside of the school, had started to move back. They heard the small arms fire and people were starting to move back, away from the school, and there was a lot of activity right there.
But it's not clear exactly whether any of them were people coming out of the school itself. So, we're just waiting to hear more about that. But there are...
COSTELLO: I can still hear the sound of gunfire there.
FLOURNOY: Exactly.
COSTELLO: I believe Ryan Chilcote has his picture up right now -- Ryan, I saw you just a few seconds ago on my preview monitor.
Are you there?
CHILCOTE: ... the more significant outbreaks of gunfire we've heard. The last time we heard gunfire coming from the school was late last night, and it was just two rounds from a grenade launcher. But this is a much more sustained series of gunfire. All of it so far, as far as we can tell, coming from the school.
The Interfax, Russian news agency Interfax had also -- we have more small arms fire. We're going to show you the crowd here because Jonathan, perhaps the most bizarre aspect of this is that even with this gunfire, people are still staying here.
These relatives have been here, relatives of the hundreds of hostages inside, many of them children, they've been staying -- they've now been here for more than 48 hours. We're in the third day of this hostage crisis and these relatives are still here despite the gunfire.
They've just gotten used to it, I guess. And some people have left, but about a third of the (INAUDIBLE). I'm about 100 -- sure. Well, I'm about 100 meters from the wall that really blocks off the vicinity of the school. And I am the -- we understand that the school itself is about another 100 meters from there. So, we're about 200 meters.
We do have a very large building next to us for cover. We're hearing more small arms fire. This has now been going on for about 10, 15 minutes, Jonathan. A mixture of grenade fire and small arms fire in very different locations...
COSTELLO: Just to explain to our domestic viewers what we're hearing, Ryan Chilcote is on CNN International right now. Of course, we can't see that part of CNN here in the United States. We're simulcasting right now. At least Ryan Chilcote is part of our live coverage of what's happening in Russia.
And we just heard another loud explosion.
I want to bring in Eli Flournoy here.
What did we just see? Who was that running across the...
FLOURNOY: You can see more soldiers coming across the screen there that we can see now in this feed from Associated Press Television. More soldiers moving into the area, which would be closer to where Ryan is reporting from. And as he just said, people, family members who have family members in the school are still hanging out there, despite the gunfire and...
COSTELLO: You know, it's so hard for me to determine where the gunfire is coming from. So, you have the Russian soldiers somewhere near the school.
Are they firing on the school, near the school? I mean where is that gunfire coming from?
FLOURNOY: Well, earlier we know from several hours ago, when there was an incident like this -- but it didn't last nearly as long -- is that we know from Russian authorities that there were several grenades that were launched from the rebels at the Russian soldiers...
COSTELLO: From inside the school?
FLOURNOY: From inside the school outside. So, those are the large explosions that you're hearing. And then after that, there was some small arms fire that went from the Russian soldiers toward the school. Now, exactly where in the school, we don't know. But then that settled down and that was passed.
Now, this has been a much more prolonged back and forth that we're hearing now. And we just don't know exactly where that firing is going to or coming from. And importantly, we don't know if there are people in the way of that gunfire. We don't have any reports of casualties yet.
COSTELLO: Yes. You know, you just have to think of the terror of those poor children inside of that school, because there are literally still hundreds of children inside the school, and also teachers, I would suppose.
FLOURNOY: Right.
COSTELLO: Even though some have been let go.
Now, the Russian government came out and said that they wouldn't storm the school. Is that true?
FLOURNOY: That's correct. The Russians have been very adamant to say that they are seeking a peaceful end to this. They are not looking for a violent end. Everybody has on their memory the terrible theater situation, in which the Russian forces went in and then, you know, hundreds of people were killed during that stand-off. So, they don't want a revisit of that, particularly when you've got now hundreds of children.
Ryan reporting that women who had come out, have been let go as hostages coming out and reporting that it was now more like a thousand people that are inside this school as opposed to the 300 or so that we had been hearing before.
COSTELLO: Do we know how much negotiation has gone on? Obviously there's no negotiation going on now.
FLOURNOY: Well, they do have phone contact and up until just a couple of hours ago, we knew that they were in regular phone contact with the rebels in there, because we have been hearing -- in the earlier skirmish that I was telling you about, they had phone contact with them. The rebels said they only fired out because they thought there was some troop movement.
And the Russians were quick to say, no, we're not moving in at all. And that settled down. But now, again, we've got a very prolonged series of gunfire. So, everyone is very anxious to find out what exactly is happening here, and, importantly, what's the status of the people inside.
COSTELLO: We're going to rejoin CNN International right now.
Ryan Chilcote is doing a report there, so let's simulcast right now.
Oh, we just lost Ryan Chilcote.
I can see his picture, oddly enough. I'm sorry that you cannot. But we can see him standing, what did he say, 200 meters from the school?
FLOURNOY: Correct. Yes. He's about 200 meters back from the school, obviously a different angle than the live picture that we're seeing here.
COSTELLO: We're going to go back to him right now, Eli.
Here we go.
Here's Ryan Chilcote.
CHILCOTE: Well, we're getting some more information, Jonathan, if you can wait.
Who's the source on that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who's the source on that?
CHILCOTE: We're getting wire reports...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's Interfax. CHILCOTE: Interfax, the Russian news agency Interfax is reporting, Jonathan, that the -- that Russian forces are taking positions around the school. We can confirm that Russian forces are, indeed, moving. More people are leaving.
We're going to do a small thing here, Alex.
Why don't we bring the camera down a little bit so we can get our own profile down a little bit?
We're going to stay with you here, Jonathan. We have more gunfire, but we're going to actually hunker down a little bit. Just go ahead and say what everyone said.
OK, Jonathan -- Jonathan, we have children that have just been released from the school, Jonathan, right in front of you, wounded children.
Hey (Speaking in foreign language).
OK, Jonathan -- Jonathan -- on the camera. On the tripod.
OK, put it on the tripod. Put it on the tripod. OK we still have -- hey, Jonathan, can I break in for a second? Jon...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To your right. Turn to your right. Turn to your right.
CHILCOTE: Oh, my God, is that -- yes, well, we're seeing an absolutely horrific scene here, Jonathan. We just saw several people being carried out wounded by gunfire from the vicinity of the school. They're receiving medical attention right in front of us.
I don't know if you can see that group. They're being evacuated from the area. This is horrific, Jonathan. We just saw what -- I was about five yards away. We saw what appeared -- there's now helicopters in the sky. This is not good, Jonathan. This is precipitating very quickly.
We just saw what appeared to be a young boy getting put into -- we have Russian attack helicopters above the school.
This is -- the relatives that have been so patiently and so stoically waiting this out have begun to break down. We've now seen two injured people in the last couple of minutes. We have more small arms fire. We have Russian attack helicopters on station. We have Russian cargo helicopters on station.
It appears that the school is now being stormed.
COSTELLO: Just so our viewers understand what we're looking at, this is that elementary school in Russia near the Chechen border. A hostage situation has been going on there for several days now. There has been gunfire and gunfire coming from and going into the school. We understand some people have run from the school right now and some people are wounded, including at least one boy. You're listening to Ryan Chilcote. He is actually talking to one of our international news anchors on CNN International and we're simulcasting that report for you now.
Let's listen in.
CHILCOTE: Can you see this ambulance in front of us, Jonathan?
Yes. Yes. They're moving the cars out of the way. Go ahead.
COSTELLO: Let's bring in Eli Flournoy, our international editor -- Eli, I'm going to wait for Ryan to start speaking again.
But just so our viewers understand what is happening right now...
CHILCOTE: Well, what they said specifically was that they would not pursue...
FLOURNOY: Right. I think we can pick up Ryan to give us a description of it.
COSTELLO: So, let's listen.
CHILCOTE: They would not try to go into the school until there -- unless there was no other option, unless the hostage takers gave them no other choices. And perhaps what we are seeing here, Jonathan, is that very situation, because the first gunfire we heard came from the school. So -- one second.
So -- we're going to put the camera back on the ambulance and the crowd here. Remember, there's just two of us. This is a pretty chaotic situation. We almost got ran over by a lot of people that were running away.
But now you can see pictures of an ambulance evacuating people wounded in this most recent bout of fighting in the last 15 or 20 minutes. More wounded being brought out, Jonathan. We're going to try and get a good shot of what's going on over there.
But we have, again, attack helicopters in the air. It's called the Crocodile.
OK, they're getting this ambulance out of here. We're going to watch this ambulance as it leaves the scene, a scene of absolute devastation and a very disappointing development here, obviously. We've seen at least two wounded people in front of our very own eyes within about five meters of us. We have Russian attack helicopters called the Crocodile in front of us flying on station above the school. And that, of course, was an ambulance.
Could you see that ambulance, Jonathan?
JONATHAN: Yes, we did, Ryan.
You said that there are several injured and among them you mentioned you saw a young boy being put into an ambulance. You say two and possibly more, right?
CHILCOTE: Oh, yes. I think many more. It's just what we can see from our vantage point. We're literally tied to this camera to share this experience with you. But...
JONATHAN: Right. I understand.
And let me ask you...
CHILCOTE: But we believe that there are many more.
JONATHAN: ... as you said, some of these -- some of those who were injured or hit apparently were hit close to you. So, these are people within the crowd who have been milling about for quite some time?
CHILCOTE: It's difficult to say. They were not hostages, that I can say for sure. So, the one gentleman we saw was definitely not a hostage. He was, I'm being told right now he was a cameraman. He was holding a camera. So, he obviously got caught up in the crossfire.
The other person that we saw we just don't know. He could have been a hostage.
We have more small arms fire. We are going to step behind this car. I'll just move over here. OK, we've got -- we're -- hang with us for a second here, if you don't mind.
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Aired September 3, 2004 - 05:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: A monster hurricane is pounding the Bahamas right now. The next target for Frances: Florida.
It is Friday, September 3.
This is DAYBREAK.
And good morning to you.
From the CNN Global Headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Costello.
Now in the news, stocking up, boarding up and getting out. Millions of people are under mandatory evacuation orders this morning as Hurricane Frances batters the Bahamas and zeros in on Florida's east coast. The storm has weakened, but only a little, and it is expected to regain strength.
Two explosions were heard this morning near that school in Russia where militants have been holding children hostage for two days now. The gunmen are refusing to accept food, water and medicine for their captives.
The Republican National Convention is wrapped, with President Bush telling the delegates it's a time for hope. In his acceptance speech, the president mentioned 15 domestic priorities, but gave no details.
Downgraded a notch for now, but still big and bad and heading for Florida. Hurricane Frances has millions of people on the run this morning. Mandatory evacuation orders are in effect for more than a dozen Florida counties, most of them along the Atlantic Coast.
We're covering this storm this morning with CNN's John Zarrella in West Palm Beach and our own meteorologist, Chad Myers, who is tracking the storm from Melbourne.
Let's start with you, Chad -- good morning.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Carol.
Let me set the scene for you. I flew into Orlando last night and as I got into Orlando, I'm not kidding you, there were cars 100 deep trying to get gas yesterday. Eighty percent of the gas stations were completely empty. Everybody else, they were following gasoline trucks. I'm not kidding you. There were gasoline trucks driving down the roadway. People were following them to find out where they were going to stop, to where they were going to fill up the gas stations. It was a madhouse in Orlando yesterday.
Then I drove 50 miles farther east, closer to where the hurricane is going to hit, and everything was calm. Why was it calm? Everything was boarded up and everybody is gone from here, Carol. It's absolutely a ghost town here in Melbourne Beach.
COSTELLO: Well, I think that's probably good news.
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: Talk about this storm. It has slowed down just a bit.
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: What does that mean?
MYERS: That means that landfall won't be probably until tomorrow morning, although Rob Marciano is in the weather office and he's been tracking it inch by inch across the satellite picture. I have not been able to do that here, obviously, on this remote location.
But as it gets closer, it's also going to probably sit itself over what's called the Gulf Stream. Just offshore here, there's a pocket of warm water. That pocket of warm water actually starts way back, almost by Cancun. It goes through the Florida Straits and then between here and the Bahamas runs up the East Coast, all the way even to North Carolina and South Carolina. And sometimes that warm water will even get to the Jersey shore.
So, that's when you get the warm water up there and sometimes you get the extra sharks up there, too, as the water swirls around. That happened a couple of years ago.
But as that water, and as that warm water there gets into that hurricane, that hurricane could gain strength, just as you were saying. And obviously that's already in the forecast from the Hurricane Center.
COSTELLO: Chad, thank you.
We'll get back to you.
MYERS: All right.
COSTELLO: Down the coast from where Chad is in Melbourne, in West Palm Beach, is our own John Zarrella.
John is at a school that's been converted into a temporary shelter.
It doesn't look very full, though -- John.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, we're in the cafeteria and, all of the people are housed in other buildings. I took a walk around here, and they are literally in the auditorium and they are lining the floors of the corridors, outside of classrooms. This is one of 28 shelters in Palm Beach County. There are actually a capacity of about 47,000 people. And in this shelter tonight, in all these other buildings in this school, there are some 1,900 people. This may be the most packed shelter there is. But this place has the capacity of over 5,000 people.
And I was talking to the shelter manager just a few minutes ago and he was telling me that, you know, if there's a silver lining, if anything has come out of all this, it's the Charley factor. And people have taken this very, very seriously. When they opened the shelter yesterday -- it was officially supposed to open at 2:00 p.m. in the afternoon. He got here at 12:00 and there were people already waiting, about 60 people, to come into the shelter.
So, all up and down the East Coast, the memory of Charley just three weeks ago very fresh in folks' minds and they are getting out. Yesterday was no exception here in Palm Beach County. Traffic absolutely horrendous on the highways, as folks were leaving the Barrier Islands and leaving the mandatory evacuation areas to come inland.
And as the storm approaches and gets closer, certainly these shelters in Palm Beach County will probably fill up more.
No exact number on the total numbers of people at the 28 shelters. By 5:00 yesterday afternoon, there were some 3,000 people in the shelters, but that number certainly swelled in the overnight hours as people began to flow in. And again, here, up to 1,900 people, Carol.
So, this coming night we'll probably see even more folks in the shelters as Hurricane Frances gets ever closer to the Florida coastline -- Carol.
COSTELLO: John Zarrella reporting live from Florida this morning.
And of course, we'll get back to you for more later.
At last report, shelters for refugees, I guess, were open in 11 Florida counties and were being prepared in others. Here are some hurricane help lines for you.
The Florida Emergency Information 24 hour hotline is 1-800-342- 3557.
The American Red Cross, 1-800-HELP-NOW.
And valuable information is now available on our Web site, including a map of Hurricane Frances' projected path and links to emergency information and resources. That's at cnn.com/hurricanes.
Now to the political storm swirling over the nation. President Bush has made his pitch. You might have watched. He says the nation has reached a time for hope.
Our Eric Philips has a wrap-up on the big night at the Republican National Convention.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE W. BUSH (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mr. Chairman, delegates, fellow citizens, I'm honored by your support and I accept your nomination for president of the United States.
ERIC PHILIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Delegates greeted the president with chants of "Four more years!" Mr. Bush defended his record on the economy, job creation, education and prescription drug coverage. On homeland security, he took the offensive.
BUSH: If America shows uncertainty or weakness in this decade, the world will drift toward tragedy. This will not happen on my watch.
PHILIPS: New York Governor George Pataki introduced the president and defended his decision to go to war.
GOV. GEORGE PATAKI (R), NEW YORK: There are those who still say that there was no reason to liberate Iraq. They ask about weapons of mass destruction. On September 11 in New York, we learned that in the hands of a monster, a box cutter is a weapon of mass destruction.
PHILIPS: Bush wound up his acceptance speech with words of inspiration about a future of hope and the peace we all want. Republicans hope they'll have even more reason to celebrate come November 2.
(on camera): But if the protesters have anything to do with it, that won't happen. More than 1,800 have been arrested since demonstrations first began last Friday.
At Madison Square Garden in New York, I'm Eric Philips, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: The November 2 general election is not that far away. Sixty days from today you'll be heading to the polls. I know you will.
Here's where the candidates are today. President and Mrs. Bush spent the night in Scranton, Pennsylvania. About four hours from now, the president will address a group in Moosic. That's near Scranton. And shortly before 1:00 p.m. Eastern, he'll be in Wisconsin for a rally in suburban Milwaukee. Later this afternoon, the president will head to Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
As for Senator John Kerry, he is campaigning in Ohio this morning. He's got a town hall style meeting and a rally later this morning in Newark, Ohio. And then he'll spend the night in Akron.
Ohio, as you know by now, is one of about 17 so-called battleground states. In Springfield, Ohio last night, Senator Kerry criticized President Bush as, quoting here, "unfit to lead this nation." He used an expression common in Texas that refers to wannabe cowboys who pretend to be what they're not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have five words for America -- this is your wake up call.
And I want to sum up -- let me sum up my response to the president's speech in four words -- all hat, no cattle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: For more on the Republican convention, including President Bush's plan for the future and a look at how the political pundits rate his speech, log onto our Web site at cnn.com.
We will track the path of Hurricane Frances for you just as long as this storm has steam. But at 15 minutes past the hour, we'll get a perspective on the storm usually reserved for wind blown seagulls. At 23 minutes past, we'll get a look at how the legal game has changed for Kobe Bryant in Colorado.
And it's on to Russia after the half hour. We're still trying to nail down the numbers on the number of children being held hostage. This already harrowing story could get worse.
But first, here's a look at what else is making news this Friday morning.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
COSTELLO: And we do have breaking news to tell you about. We've been talking a lot in the past several days about that elementary school in Russia near the Chechen border. Dozens and dozens of schoolchildren being held hostage. There was a loud explosion just heard there and we can hear automatic gunfire.
Ryan Chilcote is live on the phone with the latest.
Let's pause for a second, Ryan, and allow people to listen to what's happening right outside of that school.
RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well -- I'm not sure I can hear you too well. But we have more gunfire. This is...
COSTELLO: Ryan, we can hear the gunfire. We're going to pun up your microphone right now on the phone line so you can tell us what's happening.
CHILCOTE: OK.
COSTELLO: Thank you.
CHILCOTE: I'm not sure if you can see me.
Can you see me?
COSTELLO: We cannot see you. We see a live picture from near the school. I don't think we can see the building itself, though.
CHILCOTE: OK. But you're not seeing me?
COSTELLO: No. We can hear you, though.
CHILCOTE: OK, let me explain what's going on here. I'm going to pull this -- we're going to bring up our video phone if we can here.
There's been small arms fire over the last -- it began about 10, 15 minutes ago. It was accompanied with some grenade launcher fire coming from the vicinity of the school.
We have seen this before, but this is definitely one of the more significant outbreaks we've seen so far.
The crowd has been pushed (ph) back. And people -- some people have left; some people are still standing around. It's kind of a situation here.
Just let me know when you can see me so that I can show you some of the crowd, the hundreds of relatives that are still out here. Some of them have left, but still hundreds remain. They've been holding vigil here since this hostage crisis began, which is now in its third day.
COSTELLO: Ryan, tell us about these explosions.
Do we know what they were and where exactly they came from?
CHILCOTE: Well, we're pretty sure -- and this is coming from me -- that they came from the school. And I'm pretty sure that they were grenade launched -- launched by a handheld grenade launcher, because we can hear the sound of the initial explosion as they left the grenade launcher. It's usually a very, you know, sort of quiet explosion and then a much larger, of course, explosion upon impact. We heard two of those. Then we heard three or four rounds of automatic gunfire.
So, that's what we've heard here. The crowd has been pushed back. They had already been pushed back last night when we had a similar experience at about 3:00 in the morning here. So, more and more nerve racking experiences for the relatives, who have now endured more than 50 hours of this hostage crisis to deal with.
Some of them are staying put. They think this will blow over, as it has in the past. Some of them have pulled out for fear that perhaps the hostage takers are trying to make their way out of the school.
The problem is that there's just no good information. There is a, basically the entire school area and the vicinity of the school area is not visible. There are buildings in front of it. It's blocked off and the information from Russian officials is scant. So, it's a guessing game. And believe it or not, many people, even in this very chaotic climate, many of the relatives still choosing to stay here.
COSTELLO: Well, just to be more specific about where the gunfire is taking place, we hear the automatic gunfire.
Is that coming from Russian security forces? Is it coming from inside the school? Do you know?
CHILCOTE: Well, I just wanted to let you know, we just got a report from Interfax. A gentleman here was kind enough to show me that some of the hostages -- and this is an unconfirmed report coming from the Russian wire agency Interfax -- that some of the hostages have begun to leave the building. Now, we have no way of confirming this, but this is coming from the Interfax News Agency, a very respected Russian news agency.
They say that some hostages have begun fleeing the building. We have no way to confirm that. We have no vantage point from where we are. All we know is it's not the only gunfire we've heard. There has been sporadic shooting here for -- since we got here yesterday afternoon. But the first reports that perhaps some of the several hundred hostages that are thought to be kept inside the school are now attempting to flee. That's all we know. We're just hearing some more small arms fire.
COSTELLO: Ryan, some hostages were released yesterday, weren't there? About 26?
CHILCOTE: That's right, 26 women and children. The -- one of the women that spoke with journalists said that the only reason that they were released was that the hostage takers felt that the children, most of them under the age of four -- the oldest was eight -- but many of them were one, two and three years old, and the hostage takers felt like they were being too loud and crying too much. So, that's why they released them.
They still have hundreds of children inside of this school. The Russians were saying that there are at least 354 hostages yesterday. They're now saying that that number is off and that there may be hundreds more. We know that there are at least...
COSTELLO: Ryan, Ryan, pause for a second so we can listen to what's happening there in Russia.
CHILCOTE: OK.
COSTELLO: And Ryan, I think we just heard another explosion. You're looking at a live feed out of Russia near that elementary school.
CHILCOTE: Indeed.
COSTELLO: Tell us more.
CHILCOTE: Can you see...
COSTELLO: Go ahead, Ryan.
CHILCOTE: Can you see me?
COSTELLO: We cannot see you as of yet. We still have that same picture up near the school, but it's not exactly on the building.
CHILCOTE: All right. I'd like to be able to show you some of the -- if it's possible to get that picture to our viewers of the crowds here. We're going to show you some pictures of the crowd. If we could get that, that would be great. But it is a bit of a chaotic situation here so hopefully people will just bear with us.
COSTELLO: Ryan, do you want me...
CHILCOTE: What we heard sounded like...
COSTELLO: Ryan, do you want me to let you go so you can get that set up? I have Eli Flournoy...
CHILCOTE: I would like to do that...
COSTELLO: All right.
CHILCOTE: We'll talk to you in two minutes.
COSTELLO: OK. You get busy with that.
I'm going to talk to Eli about what's happening right now in Russia and the information coming into the CNN Newsroom right now as we take a look at this live picture -- and, Eli, explain for us what exactly we're seeing.
This is near the school.
ELI FLOURNOY, CNN SR. INTL. EDITOR: Exactly. What we're seeing right now in this picture -- this is a picture from APTN -- this is a picture to the side of where Ryan is. And you can just barely see in the background there the brown -- by the brown building there are several Russian soldiers who are there.
Now, this is just outside of the school grounds. It's a sort of a fence outside of the school grounds and earlier, about maybe 10 minutes ago, we saw a number of Russian soldiers come running across this picture that you're seeing now, heading from left to right across there.
Of course, it's not clear exactly what is happening with that, but that is about the time when we started hearing the heavy gunfire and several explosions.
COSTELLO: Ryan talked about unconfirmed reports from the, what, Russian Interfax News Agency...
FLOURNOY: That's correct. COSTELLO: ... that people were starting to flee the school.
Can you tell us more about that?
FLOURNOY: Well, what we can tell is that while we still had the picture from Ryan, we were seeing a large number of the family members who are there near where Ryan is, right outside of the school, had started to move back. They heard the small arms fire and people were starting to move back, away from the school, and there was a lot of activity right there.
But it's not clear exactly whether any of them were people coming out of the school itself. So, we're just waiting to hear more about that. But there are...
COSTELLO: I can still hear the sound of gunfire there.
FLOURNOY: Exactly.
COSTELLO: I believe Ryan Chilcote has his picture up right now -- Ryan, I saw you just a few seconds ago on my preview monitor.
Are you there?
CHILCOTE: ... the more significant outbreaks of gunfire we've heard. The last time we heard gunfire coming from the school was late last night, and it was just two rounds from a grenade launcher. But this is a much more sustained series of gunfire. All of it so far, as far as we can tell, coming from the school.
The Interfax, Russian news agency Interfax had also -- we have more small arms fire. We're going to show you the crowd here because Jonathan, perhaps the most bizarre aspect of this is that even with this gunfire, people are still staying here.
These relatives have been here, relatives of the hundreds of hostages inside, many of them children, they've been staying -- they've now been here for more than 48 hours. We're in the third day of this hostage crisis and these relatives are still here despite the gunfire.
They've just gotten used to it, I guess. And some people have left, but about a third of the (INAUDIBLE). I'm about 100 -- sure. Well, I'm about 100 meters from the wall that really blocks off the vicinity of the school. And I am the -- we understand that the school itself is about another 100 meters from there. So, we're about 200 meters.
We do have a very large building next to us for cover. We're hearing more small arms fire. This has now been going on for about 10, 15 minutes, Jonathan. A mixture of grenade fire and small arms fire in very different locations...
COSTELLO: Just to explain to our domestic viewers what we're hearing, Ryan Chilcote is on CNN International right now. Of course, we can't see that part of CNN here in the United States. We're simulcasting right now. At least Ryan Chilcote is part of our live coverage of what's happening in Russia.
And we just heard another loud explosion.
I want to bring in Eli Flournoy here.
What did we just see? Who was that running across the...
FLOURNOY: You can see more soldiers coming across the screen there that we can see now in this feed from Associated Press Television. More soldiers moving into the area, which would be closer to where Ryan is reporting from. And as he just said, people, family members who have family members in the school are still hanging out there, despite the gunfire and...
COSTELLO: You know, it's so hard for me to determine where the gunfire is coming from. So, you have the Russian soldiers somewhere near the school.
Are they firing on the school, near the school? I mean where is that gunfire coming from?
FLOURNOY: Well, earlier we know from several hours ago, when there was an incident like this -- but it didn't last nearly as long -- is that we know from Russian authorities that there were several grenades that were launched from the rebels at the Russian soldiers...
COSTELLO: From inside the school?
FLOURNOY: From inside the school outside. So, those are the large explosions that you're hearing. And then after that, there was some small arms fire that went from the Russian soldiers toward the school. Now, exactly where in the school, we don't know. But then that settled down and that was passed.
Now, this has been a much more prolonged back and forth that we're hearing now. And we just don't know exactly where that firing is going to or coming from. And importantly, we don't know if there are people in the way of that gunfire. We don't have any reports of casualties yet.
COSTELLO: Yes. You know, you just have to think of the terror of those poor children inside of that school, because there are literally still hundreds of children inside the school, and also teachers, I would suppose.
FLOURNOY: Right.
COSTELLO: Even though some have been let go.
Now, the Russian government came out and said that they wouldn't storm the school. Is that true?
FLOURNOY: That's correct. The Russians have been very adamant to say that they are seeking a peaceful end to this. They are not looking for a violent end. Everybody has on their memory the terrible theater situation, in which the Russian forces went in and then, you know, hundreds of people were killed during that stand-off. So, they don't want a revisit of that, particularly when you've got now hundreds of children.
Ryan reporting that women who had come out, have been let go as hostages coming out and reporting that it was now more like a thousand people that are inside this school as opposed to the 300 or so that we had been hearing before.
COSTELLO: Do we know how much negotiation has gone on? Obviously there's no negotiation going on now.
FLOURNOY: Well, they do have phone contact and up until just a couple of hours ago, we knew that they were in regular phone contact with the rebels in there, because we have been hearing -- in the earlier skirmish that I was telling you about, they had phone contact with them. The rebels said they only fired out because they thought there was some troop movement.
And the Russians were quick to say, no, we're not moving in at all. And that settled down. But now, again, we've got a very prolonged series of gunfire. So, everyone is very anxious to find out what exactly is happening here, and, importantly, what's the status of the people inside.
COSTELLO: We're going to rejoin CNN International right now.
Ryan Chilcote is doing a report there, so let's simulcast right now.
Oh, we just lost Ryan Chilcote.
I can see his picture, oddly enough. I'm sorry that you cannot. But we can see him standing, what did he say, 200 meters from the school?
FLOURNOY: Correct. Yes. He's about 200 meters back from the school, obviously a different angle than the live picture that we're seeing here.
COSTELLO: We're going to go back to him right now, Eli.
Here we go.
Here's Ryan Chilcote.
CHILCOTE: Well, we're getting some more information, Jonathan, if you can wait.
Who's the source on that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who's the source on that?
CHILCOTE: We're getting wire reports...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's Interfax. CHILCOTE: Interfax, the Russian news agency Interfax is reporting, Jonathan, that the -- that Russian forces are taking positions around the school. We can confirm that Russian forces are, indeed, moving. More people are leaving.
We're going to do a small thing here, Alex.
Why don't we bring the camera down a little bit so we can get our own profile down a little bit?
We're going to stay with you here, Jonathan. We have more gunfire, but we're going to actually hunker down a little bit. Just go ahead and say what everyone said.
OK, Jonathan -- Jonathan, we have children that have just been released from the school, Jonathan, right in front of you, wounded children.
Hey (Speaking in foreign language).
OK, Jonathan -- Jonathan -- on the camera. On the tripod.
OK, put it on the tripod. Put it on the tripod. OK we still have -- hey, Jonathan, can I break in for a second? Jon...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To your right. Turn to your right. Turn to your right.
CHILCOTE: Oh, my God, is that -- yes, well, we're seeing an absolutely horrific scene here, Jonathan. We just saw several people being carried out wounded by gunfire from the vicinity of the school. They're receiving medical attention right in front of us.
I don't know if you can see that group. They're being evacuated from the area. This is horrific, Jonathan. We just saw what -- I was about five yards away. We saw what appeared -- there's now helicopters in the sky. This is not good, Jonathan. This is precipitating very quickly.
We just saw what appeared to be a young boy getting put into -- we have Russian attack helicopters above the school.
This is -- the relatives that have been so patiently and so stoically waiting this out have begun to break down. We've now seen two injured people in the last couple of minutes. We have more small arms fire. We have Russian attack helicopters on station. We have Russian cargo helicopters on station.
It appears that the school is now being stormed.
COSTELLO: Just so our viewers understand what we're looking at, this is that elementary school in Russia near the Chechen border. A hostage situation has been going on there for several days now. There has been gunfire and gunfire coming from and going into the school. We understand some people have run from the school right now and some people are wounded, including at least one boy. You're listening to Ryan Chilcote. He is actually talking to one of our international news anchors on CNN International and we're simulcasting that report for you now.
Let's listen in.
CHILCOTE: Can you see this ambulance in front of us, Jonathan?
Yes. Yes. They're moving the cars out of the way. Go ahead.
COSTELLO: Let's bring in Eli Flournoy, our international editor -- Eli, I'm going to wait for Ryan to start speaking again.
But just so our viewers understand what is happening right now...
CHILCOTE: Well, what they said specifically was that they would not pursue...
FLOURNOY: Right. I think we can pick up Ryan to give us a description of it.
COSTELLO: So, let's listen.
CHILCOTE: They would not try to go into the school until there -- unless there was no other option, unless the hostage takers gave them no other choices. And perhaps what we are seeing here, Jonathan, is that very situation, because the first gunfire we heard came from the school. So -- one second.
So -- we're going to put the camera back on the ambulance and the crowd here. Remember, there's just two of us. This is a pretty chaotic situation. We almost got ran over by a lot of people that were running away.
But now you can see pictures of an ambulance evacuating people wounded in this most recent bout of fighting in the last 15 or 20 minutes. More wounded being brought out, Jonathan. We're going to try and get a good shot of what's going on over there.
But we have, again, attack helicopters in the air. It's called the Crocodile.
OK, they're getting this ambulance out of here. We're going to watch this ambulance as it leaves the scene, a scene of absolute devastation and a very disappointing development here, obviously. We've seen at least two wounded people in front of our very own eyes within about five meters of us. We have Russian attack helicopters called the Crocodile in front of us flying on station above the school. And that, of course, was an ambulance.
Could you see that ambulance, Jonathan?
JONATHAN: Yes, we did, Ryan.
You said that there are several injured and among them you mentioned you saw a young boy being put into an ambulance. You say two and possibly more, right?
CHILCOTE: Oh, yes. I think many more. It's just what we can see from our vantage point. We're literally tied to this camera to share this experience with you. But...
JONATHAN: Right. I understand.
And let me ask you...
CHILCOTE: But we believe that there are many more.
JONATHAN: ... as you said, some of these -- some of those who were injured or hit apparently were hit close to you. So, these are people within the crowd who have been milling about for quite some time?
CHILCOTE: It's difficult to say. They were not hostages, that I can say for sure. So, the one gentleman we saw was definitely not a hostage. He was, I'm being told right now he was a cameraman. He was holding a camera. So, he obviously got caught up in the crossfire.
The other person that we saw we just don't know. He could have been a hostage.
We have more small arms fire. We are going to step behind this car. I'll just move over here. OK, we've got -- we're -- hang with us for a second here, if you don't mind.
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