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Lou Dobbs Tonight
U.S. Faces New Challenges From Axis of Evil; Ivan Remains Category 5 Hurricane; Assault Weapons Ban Expired Today
Aired September 13, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, the United States stepping up its offensive against Iraqi insurgents after violence in Iraq escalates dramatically. The United States also facing new challenges tonight from Iran and North Korea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICHOLAS EBERSTADT, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: We're continually playing catch-up ball and being reactive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: This week's "TIME" magazine cover story reveals astonishing and alarming new figures on the massive influx of illegal aliens into the United States. The "TIME" magazine special report calls it nothing less than an invasion. "TIME" magazine editor at large James Steele is our guest.
Also tonight, Exporting America. The first-ever documentary on the devastating impact on middle-class American families of the export of American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really my whole life has just went totally downhill in the last six months.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Each night this week, we'll feature segments of this important new documentary "American Jobs."
At midnight tonight, a 10-year-old ban on assault weapons expires, amid charges and countercharges about whether the ban was effective. In our Face Off tonight, Senator Dianne Feinstein and Senator Larry Craig debate the issue.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Monday, September 13. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
Tonight, the United States faces major new challenges from three countries President Bush once called the axis of evil.
In North Korea, U.S. intelligence agencies still cannot say for certain what caused a massive mushroom cloud last week. In Iran, the military there is holding large-scale maneuvers near the Iraqi border. And in Iraq itself, U.S. troops have now launched a major offensive to try to retake towns and cities controlled by insurgents.
Walter Rodgers reports from Baghdad -- Walt.
WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Lou.
An outgoing Marine Corps commander here called the Iraqi city of Fallujah today a cancer. The treatment for that cancer appears to be more bombing.
At 6:00 a.m. this morning, U.S. Air Force F-16s dropped two precision-targeted 500-pound bombs on what they say was a confirmed terrorist meeting site belonging to Abu Musab Zarqawi. Zarqawi is the most wanted man in Iraq by U.S. and coalition forces. There's a $25 million price tag on his head. It is believed that he and his lieutenants are responsible for orchestrating many of the murderous attacks against U.S. forces and against Iraqi civilians as well.
As I say, there was an -- one attack at 6:00 a.m. this morning, then at least four others. The U.S. says that they killed 25 of Zarqawi's fighters in these bombing raids on Fallujah.
The Iraqis, however, tell a very different story. They say, according to the ministry of health, 20 Iraqis were killed, 38 civilians were wounded. Of those civilians, five were women and four were said to be children.
Again, these figures have yet to be confirmed totally at this point.
But the aim in Fallujah appears to be to try to decapitate the resistance and at least contain it in that city, which has been a stronghold of rebellion against the American military occupation.
The resistance to the American military occupation elsewhere in Iraq flamed up almost out of control over the weekend. Eighty people -- 80 Iraqis died nationwide on Sunday alone.
One of the worst incidents occurred in Baghdad itself on Haifa Street. A U.S. Army Bradley fighting vehicle was on a patrol. Suddenly, it was struck by the insurgents. It was burning. The three Army soldiers inside the Bradley managed to escape. They called for help. An Army helicopter came in with instructions to destroy the burning Bradley to prevent the insurgents from getting the munitions, the guns aboard that vehicle.
In the meantime, a crowd had gathered around the burning Bradley vehicle. They were celebrating, rejoicing that another American target was on fire. And the helicopters began firing. Twenty-two people alone were killed in that, including an Al Arabiya television correspondent who was recording a stand-up there at the time.
Not very good here. No one can say when the bloodshed will end -- Lou.
DOBBS: Walt Rodgers reporting live from Baghdad.
Across the Iraqi border in Iran, hundreds of thousands of Iranian troops are taking part in military maneuvers this week in a brash show of force against the United States.
A senior, Iranian officer said the Iranian military exercise is designed to reinforce Iran's ability to defend itself against what he termed "big powers," a clear reference to the United States and its presence in Iraq.
No comments from U.S. officials on that exercise, but the United States says Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons and missiles to deliver nuclear warheads.
Tonight, mystery still surrounds what did or did not happen last week in another part of the member of the axis of evil, North Korea. Satellite imagery detected a mushroom cloud, a mushroom cloud two miles wide, over a North Korean county near the Chinese border. Pyongyang insists the mushroom cloud was not the result of a nuclear test.
U.S. officials -- publicly at least -- also say it was not a test, but U.S. intelligence agencies are divided over what it could be and whether North Korea is telling the truth.
Kitty Pilgrim has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A mushroom cloud of smoke more than two miles wide was detected last Thursday in North Korea picked up by a South Korean satellite. North Korea said it was blowing up a section of a mountain for a hydroelectric project. U.S. intelligence wondered if it was a nuclear test. U.S. officials said events were unclear.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Maybe it was a fire of some kind, a forest fire of some kind, but we don't believe at this point that it was a nuclear event.
PILGRIM: In the gaps of what is known about events in North Korea, elaborate guesswork makes up the difference.
EBERSTADT: We are continually surprised. We're continually playing catch-up ball and being reactive. But even if we did as well as would be humanly possible, there would be recurrent surprises, given the closed nature of that society.
PILGRIM: U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said Sunday there had been unusual activity around North Korea atomic sites recently. Again, no clear answer.
JIM WALSH, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Does it really mean North Korea's planning to test, or does it mean that they are simply engaging in some other activity or trying to gain some leverage in advance of negotiations? That's unclear, and I think there is a disagreement within the intelligence community about that.
PILGRIM: Experts now claim North Korea has enough nuclear material for six to eight nuclear weapons, but what is not known is how far along North Korea is on uranium centrifuge enrichment plants, which would provide more material.
HENRY SOKOLSKI, NONPROLIFERATION POLICY EDUCATION COMMITTEE: We just don't know the number that they have. We don't know whether they've gone online yet. There's a range of estimates.
PILGRIM: Of course, North Korea lives by deception. In 2000, as U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright made toasts in Pyongyang, North Korea was secretly cheating on their nuclear commitments.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now experts will point to specific cases for decades where North Korea had intentionally duped the world to gain concessions and aid, but what is increasingly apparent is that North Korea's nuclear program has advanced and there is a cause for real concern -- Lou.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much.
Kitty Pilgrim.
Turning now to election politics in this country, Democrats today focused on the expiration of the ban against assault weapons. That ban at midnight tonight. Senator John Kerry accused President Bush of favoring what he called "powerful friends in the gun lobby." The White House calls Senator Kerry's charge "another false attack." President Bush campaigned on other issues.
Ed Henry reports -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Republican leaders on Capitol Hill have no plans to extend the ban on 19 different assault weapons. So it will expire at midnight, as you mentioned.
While the issue rests in the hands of Congress, Senator Kerry is trying to lay the blame at the door of the White House. In fact, at a campaign event today here in Washington, Kerry slammed the president for saying he's in favor of the ban, but doing nothing to actually get Congress to extend it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN F. KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: And so tomorrow, for the first time in 10 years, when a killer walks into a gun shop, when a terrorist goes to a gun show somewhere in America, when they want to purchase an AK-47 or some other military assault weapon, they're going to hear one word: "Sure." Today, George Bush chose to make the job of terrorists easier and make the job of America's police officers harder, and that's just plain wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: As Kerry has dropped in the polls, he has tried to refocus his campaign on domestic issues and charge that the president is giving in to special interests on an array of issues, including Medicare. But, today, Kerry also attacked the president for allegedly caving in to the National Rifle Association.
The Bush campaign fired back by saying that Kerry has consistently voted against Second Amendment rights, but, on the central question of the ban itself, the president declined to answer a question about it today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, why allow the assault weapons ban to expire without a fight?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bye, guys. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: The NRA's executive vice president Wayne LaPierre is glad the ban is expiring. He believes Democrats will not push this issue too hard in the campaign because of a fear of a backlash.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WAYNE LAPIERRE, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION: They are not going to walk down that dead-end street that President Clinton persuaded so many Democrats to walk down in '94 and then it backlashed at the polls in the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: In fact, some Democrats think John Kerry is courting danger because it is widely believed that the gun issue in 2000 cost Al Gore some swing states like West Virginia, but the Kerry campaign insists that harping on the assault weapons ban is a winner, especially among suburban woman, and, at campaign stops across the country, Kerry tries to inoculate himself politically by stressing that he is a hunter. In fact, in West Virginia last week, Kerry even held up a rifle he was given as a gift -- Lou.
DOBBS: Ed Henry reporting.
Thank you.
Later in this hour, I'll be joined by Senator Dianne Feinstein and Senator Larry Craig. They'll join me to discuss the assault weapons ban and debate whether the ban has been effective and whether it should, after all, be renewed.
Crime rates have stabilized at the lowest levels in three decades. The Justice Department says in the past 10 years, violent crime has actually fallen by 55 percent and property crime has dropped almost 50 percent as well.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ten years ago, crack cocaine ruled the crime wave, and, with the crackdown on crack, crime rates started to decline, the latest criminal statistics showing a dramatic drop in violent crime.
In 1993, there was one victim of violent crime in every 20 residents. In 2003, the rate was one in every 44.
PAUL ROSENZWEIG, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: It's a lot of people who haven't been attacked, whose homes haven't been robbed, who haven't been killed, and that's -- you can't measure that gain in real -- you know, in monetary terms, but there's a lot of people out there who are walking around safer because the crime rate's lower.
TUCKER: Experts say a variety of factors could explain why crime rates are holding steady at 30-year lows. One such factor is the decline in the number of young people in the 18- to 25-year-old age range, the prime criminal years.
JEREMY TRAVIS, JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE: We've seen historically large changes in the crime rates in this country. We've seen a decline by half in the crime rates, both in property crime and violent crime, over the past decade, and those significant trends can't be explained by demographics alone.
TUCKER: The increase in community watched programs gets part of the credit, but, for some, the explanation is as simple as giving credit where secret due.
BARBARA ROLAND, HUDSON INSTITUTE: I think it means, on a day-to- day basis, the police are tracking the data, seeing what's happened -- happening, where the hot spots are, redeploying very rapidly, regularly meeting with citizens to find out what problems are in their neighborhoods. So they're constantly responding to whatever the criminal element wants to do.
TUCKER: And our prisons are fuller than ever before with just over two million criminals behind bars.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: But maybe the most encouraging news in this report is that even with the economy going through a recession, crime rates did not rise -- Lou.
DOBBS: Effective community work, effective police work. It's very encouraging, and it's good to have some good news to report.
Bill Tucker.
Thank you.
Well, still ahead here, new information tonight on when and where Hurricane Ivan will slam into the United States. Ivan is a dangerous Category 5 hurricane. We'll be joined by NASA storm tracker Marshall Shepherd next.
And "TIME" magazine -- its cover story calls the massive flow of illegal aliens into this country in its cover story this week an "invasion." "TIME" magazine has astonishing new figures on the scale of this invasion, and Pulitzer Prizewinning "TIME" editor-in-large, James Steele, will join me.
And "American Jobs," a remarkable new documentary on the export of jobs to cheap overseas labor market and the pain and suffering caused to our middle-class working families. Tonight and every night this week, you'll be seeing "American jobs."
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Hurricane Ivan tonight is bearing down on the western coast of Cuba. This Category 5 hurricane continues to shift toward the north-northwest. It is now expected to spare the Florida Keys where thousands of people began returning to their abandoned homes today.
Forecasters, at least some of them, are saying Ivan will make landfall near the Florida-Alabama border Wednesday or perhaps early Thursday. The extremely dangerous hurricane has maximum sustained winds now of nearly 160 miles an hour.
This storm has killed at least 62 people in Jamaica and Grenada and elsewhere in the Caribbean.
Joining me now to give us more insight into the storm, its direction, its potential impact is Marshall Shepherd. He's deputy project scientist for NASA.
And it's good to have you to with us.
MARSHALL SHEPHERD, NASA DEPUTY PROJECT SCIENTIST: Thank you for having me.
DOBBS: Dr. Shepherd, let's start with now, where we are with this hurricane. Is there is an update? Your best judgment about where this powerful storm is going it make landfall?
SHEPHERD: Well, just before I got in, I just peered over the latest NOAA information from our partners down at the National Hurricane Center, and it's certainly still a dangerous Category 5 storm, appears to be still moving northwest, and, certainly, if you live along the Gulf Coast there, anywhere from the panhandle of Florida over to about New Orleans, it looks like you better keep an eye on this one.
DOBBS: Now we know the oil companies, the drilling companies are all evacuating those huge rigs. Thousands of workers on those rigs out in the Gulf of Mexico. Have there been any new evacuation orders as a result of Ivan and its projected path at this point?
SHEPHERD: Well, certainly, as the path begins to -- as the models begin to come together, I'm certain that there will be more evacuation orders. I don't know of any new ones at this time. I would refer to the Web site or the information being issued by NOAA. They tend to be more involved with those issuances.
But this certainly bears watching. Those waters out in the ocean of the Gulf are very warm, and this thing has the potential to stay at a 5 or oscillate between a 4 and a 5.
DOBBS: And when you say between a 4 and a 5, we're talking about winds approaching 160 miles an hour, 145 to 160, right?
SHEPHERD: We're talking about sustained winds at 160 miles per hour, and that could mean that there are gusts even higher than that. So, again, this is a major storm, and again -- but all indications from the models suggest that this storm will be a relatively strong major storm at landfall.
And here you see a recent image from our TRMM satellite showing you a cross section through Hurricane Ivan there. We can actually peer inside of that storm, and that's very valuable for intensity forecasts.
DOBBS: Could we go back to that model for just a moment and you could explain to us what we're actually seeing there, Dr. Shepherd?
SHEPHERD: I sure can. In fact, that's actually real data from a satellite. It's not a model. We're actually peering into the storm using radar technology, very similar to what your viewers are used to when they see a weather radar on earth. We now have one in space, and this instrument allows us to really look inside the storm.
One of the Holy Grails is hurricane forecasting is intensity change. Our track forecasts are actually pretty good right now, but we need more information on what's going inside of these storms.
DOBBS: And how broad an area -- Hurricane Frances, obviously, at one point, a scale approaching the State of Texas in size. How big is Ivan?
SHEPHERD: Ivan is not quite that size, but it is certainly approaching that size. At one point, the diameter of the eye of the storm was about 30 nautical miles. So that's a significant eye, and so we know that this is a very strong storm. Hurricane-force winds were extending out beyond a hundred or so miles. So, again, even when we talk about landfall of this powerful storm, impacts will be felt many miles to the left and right of the storm. DOBBS: And as it crosses the Gulf of Mexico and you're now projecting and I understand that your models are going to suggest changes in this direction and no one should infer from what I'm saying that this is decided, but moving toward the Alabama-Florida border with nothing but the Gulf in front of it, is it likely, in your estimation, to gather strength, to sustain its strength, or perhaps diminish a bit?
SHEPHERD: Well, with these typical storms, there will be oscillation periods. It will go through phases where it may weaken or strengthen. But the waters in the Gulf are very warm right now. Here you see the pass of Charley and Frances.
And here comes Ivan there, and you can see the intensity there in -- the red color represents Category 5 status, so it's certainly at a Category 5 now. Waters are near -- are very warm there in the Gulf, albeit shallow, but we think that it will maintain itself as a strong major storm, Category 3, 4 or 5, more likely on the higher end of that range.
DOBBS: And, Dr. Shepherd, when do you expect residents along the Gulf Coast to start feeling this, this -- the impact of Hurricane Ivan?
SHEPHERD: Well, certainly, some of the ocean swells and riptides and things you tend to see as these large storms move inland, you could start seeing those a full 48 hours or so ahead of time and even earlier in some cases.
Again, the hurricane-force winds extend now to 100 miles or so. Tropical storm-force winds are even further out than that. So, within the next day or so, I would expect to start seeing some of the weather impacts, but, again, the -- we'll keep monitoring our partners at NOAA in the forecasts because their models tend to converge the closer these storms get, and we'll have more information as the hours move on.
DOBBS: And we will be calling upon you for your analysis and, of yours, always with Max Mayfield at the National Hurricane Center and all of his colleagues who do such great work there.
Dr. Marshall Shepherd, NASA.
Thanks for being with us here.
SHEPHERD: Thank you.
DOBBS: Still ahead, the assault weapons ban expires at midnight tonight. We'll be talking with a Republican senator, Senator Larry Craig, and Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein. They'll debate whether the assault weapons should have been extended, whether it should be extended even now.
And then, former President Clinton's health will keep him sidelined during much of this presidential election season, but he's having a surprising impact on one candidate and not the one you might think.
And then, an astonishing "TIME" magazine cover story on the number of illegal aliens in this country. Its millions more than many had thought. I'll be talking with Pulitzer Prizewinning "TIME" magazine editor-at-large, Jim Steele.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues with more news, debate and opinion. Here now, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: The soon-to-expire assault weapons ban is a source of heated debate all around this country and at almost every level of our society. Gun control is a fundamental wedge issue.
My next two guests tonight have very different views about the ban and whether it should be extended. Senator Dianne Feinstein is in favor of extending the assault weapons ban. She says it's critical to keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. Senator Larry Craig says the assault weapons ban was ineffective and that he is happy, for one, that it is expiring at midnight tonight. Senator Feinstein, Senator Craig join us from Capitol Hill.
Thank you both for being here.
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: You're welcome.
SEN. LARRY CRAIG (R), IDAHO: Lou.
DOBBS: And let me begin if I may with you, Senator Craig. Every poll that we have taken a look at suggests that a majority of voters would favor an extension of this ban. Yet you're happy that it's expiring. Why so?
CRAIG: Well, Lou, I don't question the polls. I might look at some of the way the questions were asked. But I do know that since 1994 when the ban was put in place, it has made no difference in law enforcement and/or the times in which this style of semi-auto is used: less than 3 percent before '94, less than 3 percent today.
Why won't Congress reauthorize this? Because Congress has studied the facts, looked at the statistics, and said to this bill let a sleeping bill lie. This bill has been ineffective. It was a political placebo to begin with. It remains that, a feel-good bill, that most of the American people say, well, gee, it worked. No, it didn't work, and the statistics bear that out.
DOBBS: Senator Feinstein, Senator Kerry said today that now, as a result of the expiration of this ban, that a terrorist or a criminal will effectively be able to walk into a gun shop or a gun show and ask to buy an AK-47 and the answer now will be: "Sure." Is that really the case?
FEINSTEIN: Well, there's no question that they will be back in the gun shows. They will be back in the gun shops. The big clips will be all around. And, you know, Larry Craig and I have worked together on many things, but, on this, we are exact opposites.
I believe that the supply of weapons has dried up over the last 10 years. I believe that the legislation has worked. It has reduced guns traced to crime by two-thirds. Now that may not be a huge amount, but many of these incidents that took place before the ban were in school yards -- there were many of them --all -- and work places all around this nation, and the thrust of the ban was to dry up the supply over time.
And you're right, Lou. Anywhere from two-thirds to three-fourths of the American people support its extension. Actually, the ban expired last night, early this morning at 12:01. So it's really a dark day for me and for those of us who fought so hard to get this legislation through and then to watch it.
We will be back. We will be back next session. We will be back with another bill, and we will bide our time and find the opportunity to present that bill to both the House and the Senate.
DOBBS: Senator Craig, representing, as you do, the State of Idaho, a state committed to the outdoors, to the environment, hunting is a big part of the outdoor activities in Idaho. Do you support assault weapons not being banned, if I can put that way, because of your interest in hunting and sportsmanship?
CRAIG: It's a combination of a lot of things, but, first and foremost, Lou, let me say that the assault weapon is not the weapon of choice of terrorists. Last I checked, nearly 3,000 Americans died, and the weapon of choice was a fully-loaded airliner.
So we don't know what terrorists use. They don't use these kinds of weapons in this country. If they chose to, they could buy them off the black market and out of the back streets of America, but darn few of them are available there, simply put.
But, in Idaho, let's remember this is a semi-automatic firearm. It doesn't have any more power than any other semi-auto. It's the cosmetics of it that allow it to be called an assault weapon. Are semi-autos used in hunting? Yes, they are. They certainly are. Why am I opposed to this bill? I am opposed to laws that don't work, number one. And I do believe that Americans generally support Second Amendment rights as I do.
DOBBS: Senator, let me ask you this, as a sportsman, a hunter yourself. You don't think it's very sporting, do you, for anyone, a man or woman, to be in the field with a semi-automatic weapon shooting game? I'm a hunter myself, but I mean the idea of somebody using a semi-automatic rifle or shotgun in the field is an absurdity.
CRAIG: Well, Lou, let's get the facts right. There are a lot of shotguns out there today that you and I use that are illegal and legitimate and they are semi-autos.
DOBBS: That's what I'm saying. I am just giving my opinion, Senator. I don't think there's much sport in that.
CRAIG: Well, when you shoot at a pheasant or a duck and the bullet's ejected and another one is put in the chamber as most of the shotguns do and you're ready to shoot another duck, isn't that sporting or do you think that you ought to stop and reload and the flight of ducks is already gone? That's the difference...
DOBBS: Well, I'll tell you the truth, Senator, when I was hunting pheasant in southern Idaho, my buddies and I used to, as young fellows, we hunted pheasant with .22s, in point in fact. That's in a different time, a different era and a different place.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Senator Feinstein...
CRAIG: Were they single shots of semi-autos?
DOBBS: They were single shots, Senator.
FEINSTEIN: May I say something?
DOBBS: You may indeed. I was begging you to.
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Well, most states limit the number of bullets for hunting that you can have in a clip and most states are under ten bullets in a clip. You don't need an AK-47 with a 50-round clip to shoot a deer. I think that's pretty clear. The fact of the matter is that the ban has worked. The fact of the matter is that there are organizations that are intensely selfish, and they want it all their way. And they don't much care the fact that these weapons -- you have some of these weapons. You can adjust the trigger, so they can fire as many as 30 bullets in three seconds. Who needs that on the streets of America?
The fact is, no one needs it. But the selfishness, and I'm sorry, this is where I -- the absolute selfishness of the National Rifle Association to make this their number one priority and the citizens of this country are going to be much less safe because of it.
DOBBS: Can I say something to both of you and just get your quick reaction because we are way over time. But isn't it true, if it were not as you suggest the selfishness as you put it, Senator Feinstein of the NRA, and it at the same time the enthusiasm of the gun control lobby to go beyond simply assault weapons, that we might be able to come together to make rational decisions about gun legislation, is that just simply idealistic or unrealistic?
FEINSTEIN: There are very few things -- we would like to have trigger locks on weapons, which is a common-sense thing. One of the interesting things -- Senator Schumer and I had a press conference to urge Wal-mart not to sell these weapons and we heard that they're not going to sell these weapons and they're not going to sell the big clips, and I think that's a real point of integrity in the retail community.
DOBBS: Senator Craig, you get the last word.
CRAIG: Well, thank you. In this instance, a majority of the United States Congress has said, no, we're not going to reauthorize this bill. Trigger locks are becoming the assistance of the day to almost all firearms that are now sold through legitimate gun dealers, federal licensed gun dealers, and lastly, what Senator Feinstein just said is 30 bullets in three seconds. That's a fully automatic weapon and that's against the law and it has been since 1934.
DOBBS: Senator Craig, Senator Feinstein, we thank you both for being with us here tonight.
FEINSTEIN: Thank you, thank you very much.
CRAIG: Thank you.
DOBBS: The presidential election now 50 days away. President Bush is of course the first president to run for re-election since President Clinton in 1996. Their policy differences are somewhat obvious. Yet President Bush appears to have found something to borrow from the former president. Bill Schneider has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): President Clinton accepts his party's nomination for a second term, 1996.
CLINTON: The real choice is whether we will build a bridge to the future or a bridge to the past.
SCHNEIDER: President Bush accepts his party's nomination for a second term, 2004.
BUSH: If policies of tax and spend, of expanding government rather than expanding opportunity are the politics of the past, we are on the path to the future, and we're not turning back.
SCHNEIDER: Both incumbents running for a second term. Incumbents are expected to run on the status quo. But right now most Americans say they are dissatisfied with the status quo. That's supposed to give the challenger an opening.
AD ANNOUNCER: It's time for a new direction.
SCHNEIDER: Is it possible for the incumbent to position himself as the candidate of change? Clinton did it.
CLINTON: I want to build a bridge to the 21st century in which we expand opportunity through education, in which we create a strong and growing economy to preserve the legacy of opportunity for the next generation.
SCHNEIDER: President Bush's message is similar. Don't stop thinking about tomorrow.
BUSH: It's a changing world, and yet the fundamental systems of America were built for yesterday not tomorrow. Our tax code, health coverage, pension plans, and worker training were all set up for a bygone era.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: It would be quite a trick for Bush, the incumbent, to become the candidate of change. A trick worthy of the master, Bill Clinton -- Lou.
DOBBS: Bill, thank you very much. Bill Schneider.
And that brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. "What do you believe will be the defining issue of this presidential election? Iraq, the economy, national security, or the candidates' military service?
Cast your vote at CNN.com/lou. We'll have results for you later in the broadcast.
Coming up next, staggering new information on the number of illegal aliens flooding across our borders every year. We'll have the interview with Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative journalist, "TIME" magazine editor-at-large, Jim Steele. He'll be here.
And "American Jobs," the first documentary on the exporting of American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets and the pain and suffering it causes. All this week, the documentary "American Jobs."
Tonight, a southern community that's been devastated by the loss of thousands of jobs exported overseas. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: This week's "TIME" magazine cover story shatters all previous estimates of the magnitude of this country's immigration crisis. In their astonishing report on the cover of "TIME" magazine this week, "America's Border: Who Left the Door Open?" Pulitzer Prize- winning journalist Donald Barlett and Jim Steele report three million illegal aliens will enter the United States this year. Three million illegal aliens entering the country this year.
Their special cover story investigation also uncovers startling information that demonstrates our nation's borders are now more porous than before the terrorist attacks of September 11.
Joining me now, Jim Steele, "TIME" magazine editor-at-large. Jim, first, congratulations on an extraordinary story.
Let's begin with this number, three million. On this broadcast we have been reporting for some time a million a year. This is a -- you style it an invasion, three million is exactly that.
JIM STEELE, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "TIME": That's a very good question and I will tell you how we came to this. Basically this year they are going to apprehend more than a million illegal aliens largely on the southern border. When you interview law enforcement people down there, border patrol, sheriff's office, policemen and ranchers who are dealing with this day in and day out, week in and week out, the basic percentage they talk about for every one they apprehend, basically three more get through. I talked to some people down there and they will say it is six, seven times as much. We decided to go with basically the conservative estimate. And the people who face this day in and day out, it is just astonishing. The ranchers who see X number of people, let's say apprehended on their property, many a times that many more goes through, leave trash, destroy livestock, create other kinds of problems.
DOBBS: The double-page picture in your magazine in the report of the litter and the trash. I can't commend this story too strongly to you because it is revelatory. You mentioned the Led (ph) ranch of 14,000 ranch in Arizona.
Yes.
DOBBS: What those people are putting up with is incredible.
STEELE: My colleague Don Barlett visited that ranch and talked to John Led (ph) and what he saw was the trash that accumulates. The fact that the man fences are cut basicly almost every day or several times a week. His cattle wander into Mexico and Mexican cattle wand into his land. He spends in a huge amount of time now simply repairing his land that his family's had for generations. And you see that up and down the border.
DOBBS: Why has Arizona become such -- become the major crossing point?
STEELE: Apparently what happened is they did crackdown somewhat in California, and to some extent in Texas, and this became a much more appealing border. Unlike Texas, where you have the river, for the most part in Arizona, it is simply crossing the barbed wire fence or something like that. So it is quite easy to get in there and it is a 350-mile border that the border patrol, as hard as it work down there -- and by the way, we found many hard work border patrol agencies who are very upset by this whole pose process. So you can't blame them for this. It's just a matter of manpower, resources and the fact there are just too many people.
DOBBS: And I want to put up, if we may, we've got a number of graphics based on your reporting that we want to show. If we could have that first graphic, please, to show the audience. This showing the immigration into the United States, basic rising from one million to over three million. And the second graphic, which I think is astonishing here. The number of fines against employers of illegal aliens. As you see there, a 99 percent decline over the course of a decade. As you point out in this reporting, big business. Is a big part of the problem.
STEELE: Big business is a big part of the problem. And basically Washington doesn't want to clamp down on that area. As long as people know that there's a job for them in this country, that they get across that border and that there's something waiting for them, they're going to come. But if employers know that is a serious offense, that it's not going to be tolerated, then they're not going to employ those people and therefore some of that demand will dry up.
DOBBS: The question as you point out in your report, the impact on lower wage levels, jobs and rising now to middle-class jobs as well. The impact on our economy, the so-called externalities. Big business at fault. Why isn't Congress and you point out it is Democrats and Republicans, it's this White House, the previous and those before it...
STEELE: Right.
DOBBS: ... going back to 1986. Why in the world with everyone concerned about this issue, the impact it's having on our society, our culture, our environment, why no action?
STEELE: I can't tell you how many times we ask ourselves that same exact question and the answer we've come up with largely is that basically there's a disconnect. I mean, the political powers in Washington don't recognize that this is a very, very serious issue. We're hoping when they see this story, which isn't just a matter of folks coming in for jobs, but folks coming in from other countries, hostile to the United States, are coming into the midst of it. Maybe they will see the gravity of it for once anyway.
DOBBS: And the fact of the Homeland Security Department are saying our borders are now secure after September 11th.
STEELE: Well, I suggest anybody go down there and walk that border in Arizona, and they will find out just exactly how secure our borders are. And that is not the case. And getting -- and it's gotten much worse this year.
DOBBS: A compelling report, fascinating revelatory report. Jim Steele, editor-at-large, "Time" magazine. Good to have you here.
STEELE: Nice to be with you, Lou.
DOBBS: Still ahead, "American Jobs," an important new documentary on the impact, the exporting of American jobs its having on our middle-class communities all across the country. All of this week, we'll be featuring segments of this documentary. We begin tonight with a town devastated by outsourcing. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: All this week, we're going to bring to you the first ever documentary on the exporting of American jobs to cheap foreign markets and it's devastating impact. We'll be showing you a different portion of the documentary entitled "American Jobs."
Filmmaker Greg Spotts spent months crisscrossing the country talking to some of the hardest work Americans who have been personally effected. We begin tonight in Kannapolis, North Carolina, where there towns largest employer was wiped out by cheap foreign competition along with 1,000s of jobs.
Spotts, talked with Pillowtex workers and officials in Kannapolis about the experience.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I ran a jetso (ph) machine. It cut the wash cloths. It labeled the wash cloths. It hemmed the wash cloth. We inspected the wash cloths off of the machine, and then we repaired our bad hems. So it did cut out five jobs, into one. And we ran three machines, I did. Some of them run two. I run three. I loved it. It made perfect wash cloths, perfect. They just -- of course this was an older one. But it was just, you know, just a straight, just as pretty. Perfect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Late last spring, you'd drive by at various times and the number of cars of workers were greatly diminished.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We only worked a week in May. And then we only worked another week in June.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I asked my supervisor, she lied. Don't make any sense to have all of these people just sitting here thinking one thing, and you all know that the mill is closing. Tell us! So everybody can get prepared to what they are going to do next.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Finally on the 30th of July, they announced a day before one of the deadlines that the plant was just closed. It was gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As the Pillowtex asset are liquidated, Chinese companies are bidding for the right to produce future Cannon label sheets and towels in China, where the average wage of textiles workers is 69 cents an hour.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone had said it on the street that day, it had been like it was grandma dying for a month and finally grandma died. Everyone was so sad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We simply opened up our doors and said, whatever space you need, we have, use it. And we became active with being a host site for a service center.
BRUCE JACOBS, DIRECTOR, SOCIAL SERVICES: In order to get help you really have to lay out your life, your financial situation, your health situation, how many people in the family, what's your relationship is to your significant other. Are they your children, not your children?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't like people in my business is like that. So I try to make-do with my unemployment until they cut it, and they cut it by over $150.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: November. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have health insurance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. Can't afford it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of medicine do you take?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I take blood pressure pill. I'm on thinthroid (ph) every day. I have to have that to live.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are seeing a lot of people who are cutting their medications, trying to save them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, I go big. My doctor in Concord, if I'm close enough to running out to give me a couple to do me until I can get some. Or a little sample pack.
(SINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hard part is people are going to have to start making tough decisions, families moving back in together. People giving up their cars. Possibly giving up their homes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I have the medical insurance and the bankruptcy coming out, plus the regular taxes that you have to pay out of your paycheck. So after all that is said and done, I probably bring home $50 every two weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're facing the ultimate. And I don't want to think it, unless he gets the job in May, we're going to file bankruptcy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really, my whole life just went totally downhill in the last six months. In the last eight months, I weighed 228 pound a year and a half ago, I weigh 155 pounds right now. My mental status, right now, sometimes I feel like I have just plum lost it, really. I mean, it's just a mess. It really is. It's just a mess.
MARK LEVINSON, UNITE UNION: When the largest employer in town shuts down, workers no longer have money, the restaurants close, the schools are starved for money, the support industries can't survive. It is a catastrophe. And unfortunately, this is happening more and more across this country.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Tomorrow, the North America Free Trade Agreement, and just how much, or how little are politicians in Washington understood, and its impact on the middle class in this country. And for more information on the documentary, go to Americanjobsfilm.com. That's Americanjobsfilms.com.
Coming up next here, why French wine, cheese, Milwaukee beer, and I made the pages of the Wall Street Journal today. It's not a pretty story. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: As hundreds of thousands of American jobs are being shipped to cheaper foreign labor markets, the head of India's largest software association said efforts to stop outsourcing have failed. Christine Romans, what do you mean, failed?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Lou, that group is bragging that the U.S. simply cannot stop the move of American jobs to cheap labor markets. Nascom, India's mouthpiece for its moving outsourcing business said, not a single U.S. law intended to keep American jobs at home has worked.
Now, Jagdish Bhagwadi (ph), at the same time making headlines in the op-ed of the Wall Street Journal today, he's a free trader at any cost, arguing with you on your position on outsourcing. Lou, this is what he wrote today. "John Kerry is in the same camp of Lou Dobbs, whose outpouring against sundry forms of imports and outward investments is a farrago of nonsense." That means medley.
And then, instead of arguing the issue, he gets personal. And attacks you here, Lou. He writes, "If firms that buy cheap abroad suffer from corporate greed, then is Mr. Dobbs, whose girth and success doubtless suggests that he buys for supper French brie and Burgundy rather than Milwaukee beer and Kraft cheese to be accused by the same logic by shipping jobs abroad, Lou."
DOBBS: I've been Bhagwadied (ph).
ROMANS: You've been Bhagwadied (ph), I think.
DOBBS: This is remarkable. This from a guy who doesn't believe we should try to stop illegal immigration, doesn't believe we should have protection of our intellectual property rights in trade. The man is, to me, to me it is shameful that he attacks on a personal base. He didn't raise a single argument against anything.
So professor Bhagwadi (ph), Bhagwadied (ph) or not, why don't you read "Exporting America" and assert yourself.
This is really remarkable. And "the Journal" just seems to have no problem with the fact he doesn't believe in intellectual property rights, doesn't care about stopping illegal immigration and all's fine.
ROMANS: Maybe personal attacks sort of deflects away from the actual argument, and arguing your position.
DOBBS: Maybe he doesn't care about middle-class Americans at all. Christine Romans, thank you.
And did you like calling me a fat guy that likes brie and burgundy?
ROMANS: I said girth and success, Lou -- girth.
DOBBS: Absolutely. The fact is, I hate brie and I love cheeseburgers.
Still ahead, the results of our poll tonight. A preview of what's ahead here tomorrow. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, the results of our poll tonight: two-thirds of you say that the economy will be the defining issue in this presidential elections, 20 percent Iraq, national security 10 percent, only 2 percent, the candidate's military service.
Join us tomorrow. Democratic Senator Dick Durbin, a member of the intelligence committee, joins us. and we'll have a disturbing new report for you on hightech jobs being lost in this country. That's tomorrow. Please be with us.
For tonight, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" next.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired September 13, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, the United States stepping up its offensive against Iraqi insurgents after violence in Iraq escalates dramatically. The United States also facing new challenges tonight from Iran and North Korea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICHOLAS EBERSTADT, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: We're continually playing catch-up ball and being reactive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: This week's "TIME" magazine cover story reveals astonishing and alarming new figures on the massive influx of illegal aliens into the United States. The "TIME" magazine special report calls it nothing less than an invasion. "TIME" magazine editor at large James Steele is our guest.
Also tonight, Exporting America. The first-ever documentary on the devastating impact on middle-class American families of the export of American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really my whole life has just went totally downhill in the last six months.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Each night this week, we'll feature segments of this important new documentary "American Jobs."
At midnight tonight, a 10-year-old ban on assault weapons expires, amid charges and countercharges about whether the ban was effective. In our Face Off tonight, Senator Dianne Feinstein and Senator Larry Craig debate the issue.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Monday, September 13. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
Tonight, the United States faces major new challenges from three countries President Bush once called the axis of evil.
In North Korea, U.S. intelligence agencies still cannot say for certain what caused a massive mushroom cloud last week. In Iran, the military there is holding large-scale maneuvers near the Iraqi border. And in Iraq itself, U.S. troops have now launched a major offensive to try to retake towns and cities controlled by insurgents.
Walter Rodgers reports from Baghdad -- Walt.
WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Lou.
An outgoing Marine Corps commander here called the Iraqi city of Fallujah today a cancer. The treatment for that cancer appears to be more bombing.
At 6:00 a.m. this morning, U.S. Air Force F-16s dropped two precision-targeted 500-pound bombs on what they say was a confirmed terrorist meeting site belonging to Abu Musab Zarqawi. Zarqawi is the most wanted man in Iraq by U.S. and coalition forces. There's a $25 million price tag on his head. It is believed that he and his lieutenants are responsible for orchestrating many of the murderous attacks against U.S. forces and against Iraqi civilians as well.
As I say, there was an -- one attack at 6:00 a.m. this morning, then at least four others. The U.S. says that they killed 25 of Zarqawi's fighters in these bombing raids on Fallujah.
The Iraqis, however, tell a very different story. They say, according to the ministry of health, 20 Iraqis were killed, 38 civilians were wounded. Of those civilians, five were women and four were said to be children.
Again, these figures have yet to be confirmed totally at this point.
But the aim in Fallujah appears to be to try to decapitate the resistance and at least contain it in that city, which has been a stronghold of rebellion against the American military occupation.
The resistance to the American military occupation elsewhere in Iraq flamed up almost out of control over the weekend. Eighty people -- 80 Iraqis died nationwide on Sunday alone.
One of the worst incidents occurred in Baghdad itself on Haifa Street. A U.S. Army Bradley fighting vehicle was on a patrol. Suddenly, it was struck by the insurgents. It was burning. The three Army soldiers inside the Bradley managed to escape. They called for help. An Army helicopter came in with instructions to destroy the burning Bradley to prevent the insurgents from getting the munitions, the guns aboard that vehicle.
In the meantime, a crowd had gathered around the burning Bradley vehicle. They were celebrating, rejoicing that another American target was on fire. And the helicopters began firing. Twenty-two people alone were killed in that, including an Al Arabiya television correspondent who was recording a stand-up there at the time.
Not very good here. No one can say when the bloodshed will end -- Lou.
DOBBS: Walt Rodgers reporting live from Baghdad.
Across the Iraqi border in Iran, hundreds of thousands of Iranian troops are taking part in military maneuvers this week in a brash show of force against the United States.
A senior, Iranian officer said the Iranian military exercise is designed to reinforce Iran's ability to defend itself against what he termed "big powers," a clear reference to the United States and its presence in Iraq.
No comments from U.S. officials on that exercise, but the United States says Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons and missiles to deliver nuclear warheads.
Tonight, mystery still surrounds what did or did not happen last week in another part of the member of the axis of evil, North Korea. Satellite imagery detected a mushroom cloud, a mushroom cloud two miles wide, over a North Korean county near the Chinese border. Pyongyang insists the mushroom cloud was not the result of a nuclear test.
U.S. officials -- publicly at least -- also say it was not a test, but U.S. intelligence agencies are divided over what it could be and whether North Korea is telling the truth.
Kitty Pilgrim has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A mushroom cloud of smoke more than two miles wide was detected last Thursday in North Korea picked up by a South Korean satellite. North Korea said it was blowing up a section of a mountain for a hydroelectric project. U.S. intelligence wondered if it was a nuclear test. U.S. officials said events were unclear.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Maybe it was a fire of some kind, a forest fire of some kind, but we don't believe at this point that it was a nuclear event.
PILGRIM: In the gaps of what is known about events in North Korea, elaborate guesswork makes up the difference.
EBERSTADT: We are continually surprised. We're continually playing catch-up ball and being reactive. But even if we did as well as would be humanly possible, there would be recurrent surprises, given the closed nature of that society.
PILGRIM: U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said Sunday there had been unusual activity around North Korea atomic sites recently. Again, no clear answer.
JIM WALSH, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Does it really mean North Korea's planning to test, or does it mean that they are simply engaging in some other activity or trying to gain some leverage in advance of negotiations? That's unclear, and I think there is a disagreement within the intelligence community about that.
PILGRIM: Experts now claim North Korea has enough nuclear material for six to eight nuclear weapons, but what is not known is how far along North Korea is on uranium centrifuge enrichment plants, which would provide more material.
HENRY SOKOLSKI, NONPROLIFERATION POLICY EDUCATION COMMITTEE: We just don't know the number that they have. We don't know whether they've gone online yet. There's a range of estimates.
PILGRIM: Of course, North Korea lives by deception. In 2000, as U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright made toasts in Pyongyang, North Korea was secretly cheating on their nuclear commitments.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now experts will point to specific cases for decades where North Korea had intentionally duped the world to gain concessions and aid, but what is increasingly apparent is that North Korea's nuclear program has advanced and there is a cause for real concern -- Lou.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much.
Kitty Pilgrim.
Turning now to election politics in this country, Democrats today focused on the expiration of the ban against assault weapons. That ban at midnight tonight. Senator John Kerry accused President Bush of favoring what he called "powerful friends in the gun lobby." The White House calls Senator Kerry's charge "another false attack." President Bush campaigned on other issues.
Ed Henry reports -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Republican leaders on Capitol Hill have no plans to extend the ban on 19 different assault weapons. So it will expire at midnight, as you mentioned.
While the issue rests in the hands of Congress, Senator Kerry is trying to lay the blame at the door of the White House. In fact, at a campaign event today here in Washington, Kerry slammed the president for saying he's in favor of the ban, but doing nothing to actually get Congress to extend it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN F. KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: And so tomorrow, for the first time in 10 years, when a killer walks into a gun shop, when a terrorist goes to a gun show somewhere in America, when they want to purchase an AK-47 or some other military assault weapon, they're going to hear one word: "Sure." Today, George Bush chose to make the job of terrorists easier and make the job of America's police officers harder, and that's just plain wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: As Kerry has dropped in the polls, he has tried to refocus his campaign on domestic issues and charge that the president is giving in to special interests on an array of issues, including Medicare. But, today, Kerry also attacked the president for allegedly caving in to the National Rifle Association.
The Bush campaign fired back by saying that Kerry has consistently voted against Second Amendment rights, but, on the central question of the ban itself, the president declined to answer a question about it today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, why allow the assault weapons ban to expire without a fight?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bye, guys. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: The NRA's executive vice president Wayne LaPierre is glad the ban is expiring. He believes Democrats will not push this issue too hard in the campaign because of a fear of a backlash.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WAYNE LAPIERRE, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION: They are not going to walk down that dead-end street that President Clinton persuaded so many Democrats to walk down in '94 and then it backlashed at the polls in the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: In fact, some Democrats think John Kerry is courting danger because it is widely believed that the gun issue in 2000 cost Al Gore some swing states like West Virginia, but the Kerry campaign insists that harping on the assault weapons ban is a winner, especially among suburban woman, and, at campaign stops across the country, Kerry tries to inoculate himself politically by stressing that he is a hunter. In fact, in West Virginia last week, Kerry even held up a rifle he was given as a gift -- Lou.
DOBBS: Ed Henry reporting.
Thank you.
Later in this hour, I'll be joined by Senator Dianne Feinstein and Senator Larry Craig. They'll join me to discuss the assault weapons ban and debate whether the ban has been effective and whether it should, after all, be renewed.
Crime rates have stabilized at the lowest levels in three decades. The Justice Department says in the past 10 years, violent crime has actually fallen by 55 percent and property crime has dropped almost 50 percent as well.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ten years ago, crack cocaine ruled the crime wave, and, with the crackdown on crack, crime rates started to decline, the latest criminal statistics showing a dramatic drop in violent crime.
In 1993, there was one victim of violent crime in every 20 residents. In 2003, the rate was one in every 44.
PAUL ROSENZWEIG, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: It's a lot of people who haven't been attacked, whose homes haven't been robbed, who haven't been killed, and that's -- you can't measure that gain in real -- you know, in monetary terms, but there's a lot of people out there who are walking around safer because the crime rate's lower.
TUCKER: Experts say a variety of factors could explain why crime rates are holding steady at 30-year lows. One such factor is the decline in the number of young people in the 18- to 25-year-old age range, the prime criminal years.
JEREMY TRAVIS, JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE: We've seen historically large changes in the crime rates in this country. We've seen a decline by half in the crime rates, both in property crime and violent crime, over the past decade, and those significant trends can't be explained by demographics alone.
TUCKER: The increase in community watched programs gets part of the credit, but, for some, the explanation is as simple as giving credit where secret due.
BARBARA ROLAND, HUDSON INSTITUTE: I think it means, on a day-to- day basis, the police are tracking the data, seeing what's happened -- happening, where the hot spots are, redeploying very rapidly, regularly meeting with citizens to find out what problems are in their neighborhoods. So they're constantly responding to whatever the criminal element wants to do.
TUCKER: And our prisons are fuller than ever before with just over two million criminals behind bars.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: But maybe the most encouraging news in this report is that even with the economy going through a recession, crime rates did not rise -- Lou.
DOBBS: Effective community work, effective police work. It's very encouraging, and it's good to have some good news to report.
Bill Tucker.
Thank you.
Well, still ahead here, new information tonight on when and where Hurricane Ivan will slam into the United States. Ivan is a dangerous Category 5 hurricane. We'll be joined by NASA storm tracker Marshall Shepherd next.
And "TIME" magazine -- its cover story calls the massive flow of illegal aliens into this country in its cover story this week an "invasion." "TIME" magazine has astonishing new figures on the scale of this invasion, and Pulitzer Prizewinning "TIME" editor-in-large, James Steele, will join me.
And "American Jobs," a remarkable new documentary on the export of jobs to cheap overseas labor market and the pain and suffering caused to our middle-class working families. Tonight and every night this week, you'll be seeing "American jobs."
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Hurricane Ivan tonight is bearing down on the western coast of Cuba. This Category 5 hurricane continues to shift toward the north-northwest. It is now expected to spare the Florida Keys where thousands of people began returning to their abandoned homes today.
Forecasters, at least some of them, are saying Ivan will make landfall near the Florida-Alabama border Wednesday or perhaps early Thursday. The extremely dangerous hurricane has maximum sustained winds now of nearly 160 miles an hour.
This storm has killed at least 62 people in Jamaica and Grenada and elsewhere in the Caribbean.
Joining me now to give us more insight into the storm, its direction, its potential impact is Marshall Shepherd. He's deputy project scientist for NASA.
And it's good to have you to with us.
MARSHALL SHEPHERD, NASA DEPUTY PROJECT SCIENTIST: Thank you for having me.
DOBBS: Dr. Shepherd, let's start with now, where we are with this hurricane. Is there is an update? Your best judgment about where this powerful storm is going it make landfall?
SHEPHERD: Well, just before I got in, I just peered over the latest NOAA information from our partners down at the National Hurricane Center, and it's certainly still a dangerous Category 5 storm, appears to be still moving northwest, and, certainly, if you live along the Gulf Coast there, anywhere from the panhandle of Florida over to about New Orleans, it looks like you better keep an eye on this one.
DOBBS: Now we know the oil companies, the drilling companies are all evacuating those huge rigs. Thousands of workers on those rigs out in the Gulf of Mexico. Have there been any new evacuation orders as a result of Ivan and its projected path at this point?
SHEPHERD: Well, certainly, as the path begins to -- as the models begin to come together, I'm certain that there will be more evacuation orders. I don't know of any new ones at this time. I would refer to the Web site or the information being issued by NOAA. They tend to be more involved with those issuances.
But this certainly bears watching. Those waters out in the ocean of the Gulf are very warm, and this thing has the potential to stay at a 5 or oscillate between a 4 and a 5.
DOBBS: And when you say between a 4 and a 5, we're talking about winds approaching 160 miles an hour, 145 to 160, right?
SHEPHERD: We're talking about sustained winds at 160 miles per hour, and that could mean that there are gusts even higher than that. So, again, this is a major storm, and again -- but all indications from the models suggest that this storm will be a relatively strong major storm at landfall.
And here you see a recent image from our TRMM satellite showing you a cross section through Hurricane Ivan there. We can actually peer inside of that storm, and that's very valuable for intensity forecasts.
DOBBS: Could we go back to that model for just a moment and you could explain to us what we're actually seeing there, Dr. Shepherd?
SHEPHERD: I sure can. In fact, that's actually real data from a satellite. It's not a model. We're actually peering into the storm using radar technology, very similar to what your viewers are used to when they see a weather radar on earth. We now have one in space, and this instrument allows us to really look inside the storm.
One of the Holy Grails is hurricane forecasting is intensity change. Our track forecasts are actually pretty good right now, but we need more information on what's going inside of these storms.
DOBBS: And how broad an area -- Hurricane Frances, obviously, at one point, a scale approaching the State of Texas in size. How big is Ivan?
SHEPHERD: Ivan is not quite that size, but it is certainly approaching that size. At one point, the diameter of the eye of the storm was about 30 nautical miles. So that's a significant eye, and so we know that this is a very strong storm. Hurricane-force winds were extending out beyond a hundred or so miles. So, again, even when we talk about landfall of this powerful storm, impacts will be felt many miles to the left and right of the storm. DOBBS: And as it crosses the Gulf of Mexico and you're now projecting and I understand that your models are going to suggest changes in this direction and no one should infer from what I'm saying that this is decided, but moving toward the Alabama-Florida border with nothing but the Gulf in front of it, is it likely, in your estimation, to gather strength, to sustain its strength, or perhaps diminish a bit?
SHEPHERD: Well, with these typical storms, there will be oscillation periods. It will go through phases where it may weaken or strengthen. But the waters in the Gulf are very warm right now. Here you see the pass of Charley and Frances.
And here comes Ivan there, and you can see the intensity there in -- the red color represents Category 5 status, so it's certainly at a Category 5 now. Waters are near -- are very warm there in the Gulf, albeit shallow, but we think that it will maintain itself as a strong major storm, Category 3, 4 or 5, more likely on the higher end of that range.
DOBBS: And, Dr. Shepherd, when do you expect residents along the Gulf Coast to start feeling this, this -- the impact of Hurricane Ivan?
SHEPHERD: Well, certainly, some of the ocean swells and riptides and things you tend to see as these large storms move inland, you could start seeing those a full 48 hours or so ahead of time and even earlier in some cases.
Again, the hurricane-force winds extend now to 100 miles or so. Tropical storm-force winds are even further out than that. So, within the next day or so, I would expect to start seeing some of the weather impacts, but, again, the -- we'll keep monitoring our partners at NOAA in the forecasts because their models tend to converge the closer these storms get, and we'll have more information as the hours move on.
DOBBS: And we will be calling upon you for your analysis and, of yours, always with Max Mayfield at the National Hurricane Center and all of his colleagues who do such great work there.
Dr. Marshall Shepherd, NASA.
Thanks for being with us here.
SHEPHERD: Thank you.
DOBBS: Still ahead, the assault weapons ban expires at midnight tonight. We'll be talking with a Republican senator, Senator Larry Craig, and Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein. They'll debate whether the assault weapons should have been extended, whether it should be extended even now.
And then, former President Clinton's health will keep him sidelined during much of this presidential election season, but he's having a surprising impact on one candidate and not the one you might think.
And then, an astonishing "TIME" magazine cover story on the number of illegal aliens in this country. Its millions more than many had thought. I'll be talking with Pulitzer Prizewinning "TIME" magazine editor-at-large, Jim Steele.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues with more news, debate and opinion. Here now, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: The soon-to-expire assault weapons ban is a source of heated debate all around this country and at almost every level of our society. Gun control is a fundamental wedge issue.
My next two guests tonight have very different views about the ban and whether it should be extended. Senator Dianne Feinstein is in favor of extending the assault weapons ban. She says it's critical to keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. Senator Larry Craig says the assault weapons ban was ineffective and that he is happy, for one, that it is expiring at midnight tonight. Senator Feinstein, Senator Craig join us from Capitol Hill.
Thank you both for being here.
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: You're welcome.
SEN. LARRY CRAIG (R), IDAHO: Lou.
DOBBS: And let me begin if I may with you, Senator Craig. Every poll that we have taken a look at suggests that a majority of voters would favor an extension of this ban. Yet you're happy that it's expiring. Why so?
CRAIG: Well, Lou, I don't question the polls. I might look at some of the way the questions were asked. But I do know that since 1994 when the ban was put in place, it has made no difference in law enforcement and/or the times in which this style of semi-auto is used: less than 3 percent before '94, less than 3 percent today.
Why won't Congress reauthorize this? Because Congress has studied the facts, looked at the statistics, and said to this bill let a sleeping bill lie. This bill has been ineffective. It was a political placebo to begin with. It remains that, a feel-good bill, that most of the American people say, well, gee, it worked. No, it didn't work, and the statistics bear that out.
DOBBS: Senator Feinstein, Senator Kerry said today that now, as a result of the expiration of this ban, that a terrorist or a criminal will effectively be able to walk into a gun shop or a gun show and ask to buy an AK-47 and the answer now will be: "Sure." Is that really the case?
FEINSTEIN: Well, there's no question that they will be back in the gun shows. They will be back in the gun shops. The big clips will be all around. And, you know, Larry Craig and I have worked together on many things, but, on this, we are exact opposites.
I believe that the supply of weapons has dried up over the last 10 years. I believe that the legislation has worked. It has reduced guns traced to crime by two-thirds. Now that may not be a huge amount, but many of these incidents that took place before the ban were in school yards -- there were many of them --all -- and work places all around this nation, and the thrust of the ban was to dry up the supply over time.
And you're right, Lou. Anywhere from two-thirds to three-fourths of the American people support its extension. Actually, the ban expired last night, early this morning at 12:01. So it's really a dark day for me and for those of us who fought so hard to get this legislation through and then to watch it.
We will be back. We will be back next session. We will be back with another bill, and we will bide our time and find the opportunity to present that bill to both the House and the Senate.
DOBBS: Senator Craig, representing, as you do, the State of Idaho, a state committed to the outdoors, to the environment, hunting is a big part of the outdoor activities in Idaho. Do you support assault weapons not being banned, if I can put that way, because of your interest in hunting and sportsmanship?
CRAIG: It's a combination of a lot of things, but, first and foremost, Lou, let me say that the assault weapon is not the weapon of choice of terrorists. Last I checked, nearly 3,000 Americans died, and the weapon of choice was a fully-loaded airliner.
So we don't know what terrorists use. They don't use these kinds of weapons in this country. If they chose to, they could buy them off the black market and out of the back streets of America, but darn few of them are available there, simply put.
But, in Idaho, let's remember this is a semi-automatic firearm. It doesn't have any more power than any other semi-auto. It's the cosmetics of it that allow it to be called an assault weapon. Are semi-autos used in hunting? Yes, they are. They certainly are. Why am I opposed to this bill? I am opposed to laws that don't work, number one. And I do believe that Americans generally support Second Amendment rights as I do.
DOBBS: Senator, let me ask you this, as a sportsman, a hunter yourself. You don't think it's very sporting, do you, for anyone, a man or woman, to be in the field with a semi-automatic weapon shooting game? I'm a hunter myself, but I mean the idea of somebody using a semi-automatic rifle or shotgun in the field is an absurdity.
CRAIG: Well, Lou, let's get the facts right. There are a lot of shotguns out there today that you and I use that are illegal and legitimate and they are semi-autos.
DOBBS: That's what I'm saying. I am just giving my opinion, Senator. I don't think there's much sport in that.
CRAIG: Well, when you shoot at a pheasant or a duck and the bullet's ejected and another one is put in the chamber as most of the shotguns do and you're ready to shoot another duck, isn't that sporting or do you think that you ought to stop and reload and the flight of ducks is already gone? That's the difference...
DOBBS: Well, I'll tell you the truth, Senator, when I was hunting pheasant in southern Idaho, my buddies and I used to, as young fellows, we hunted pheasant with .22s, in point in fact. That's in a different time, a different era and a different place.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Senator Feinstein...
CRAIG: Were they single shots of semi-autos?
DOBBS: They were single shots, Senator.
FEINSTEIN: May I say something?
DOBBS: You may indeed. I was begging you to.
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Well, most states limit the number of bullets for hunting that you can have in a clip and most states are under ten bullets in a clip. You don't need an AK-47 with a 50-round clip to shoot a deer. I think that's pretty clear. The fact of the matter is that the ban has worked. The fact of the matter is that there are organizations that are intensely selfish, and they want it all their way. And they don't much care the fact that these weapons -- you have some of these weapons. You can adjust the trigger, so they can fire as many as 30 bullets in three seconds. Who needs that on the streets of America?
The fact is, no one needs it. But the selfishness, and I'm sorry, this is where I -- the absolute selfishness of the National Rifle Association to make this their number one priority and the citizens of this country are going to be much less safe because of it.
DOBBS: Can I say something to both of you and just get your quick reaction because we are way over time. But isn't it true, if it were not as you suggest the selfishness as you put it, Senator Feinstein of the NRA, and it at the same time the enthusiasm of the gun control lobby to go beyond simply assault weapons, that we might be able to come together to make rational decisions about gun legislation, is that just simply idealistic or unrealistic?
FEINSTEIN: There are very few things -- we would like to have trigger locks on weapons, which is a common-sense thing. One of the interesting things -- Senator Schumer and I had a press conference to urge Wal-mart not to sell these weapons and we heard that they're not going to sell these weapons and they're not going to sell the big clips, and I think that's a real point of integrity in the retail community.
DOBBS: Senator Craig, you get the last word.
CRAIG: Well, thank you. In this instance, a majority of the United States Congress has said, no, we're not going to reauthorize this bill. Trigger locks are becoming the assistance of the day to almost all firearms that are now sold through legitimate gun dealers, federal licensed gun dealers, and lastly, what Senator Feinstein just said is 30 bullets in three seconds. That's a fully automatic weapon and that's against the law and it has been since 1934.
DOBBS: Senator Craig, Senator Feinstein, we thank you both for being with us here tonight.
FEINSTEIN: Thank you, thank you very much.
CRAIG: Thank you.
DOBBS: The presidential election now 50 days away. President Bush is of course the first president to run for re-election since President Clinton in 1996. Their policy differences are somewhat obvious. Yet President Bush appears to have found something to borrow from the former president. Bill Schneider has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): President Clinton accepts his party's nomination for a second term, 1996.
CLINTON: The real choice is whether we will build a bridge to the future or a bridge to the past.
SCHNEIDER: President Bush accepts his party's nomination for a second term, 2004.
BUSH: If policies of tax and spend, of expanding government rather than expanding opportunity are the politics of the past, we are on the path to the future, and we're not turning back.
SCHNEIDER: Both incumbents running for a second term. Incumbents are expected to run on the status quo. But right now most Americans say they are dissatisfied with the status quo. That's supposed to give the challenger an opening.
AD ANNOUNCER: It's time for a new direction.
SCHNEIDER: Is it possible for the incumbent to position himself as the candidate of change? Clinton did it.
CLINTON: I want to build a bridge to the 21st century in which we expand opportunity through education, in which we create a strong and growing economy to preserve the legacy of opportunity for the next generation.
SCHNEIDER: President Bush's message is similar. Don't stop thinking about tomorrow.
BUSH: It's a changing world, and yet the fundamental systems of America were built for yesterday not tomorrow. Our tax code, health coverage, pension plans, and worker training were all set up for a bygone era.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: It would be quite a trick for Bush, the incumbent, to become the candidate of change. A trick worthy of the master, Bill Clinton -- Lou.
DOBBS: Bill, thank you very much. Bill Schneider.
And that brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. "What do you believe will be the defining issue of this presidential election? Iraq, the economy, national security, or the candidates' military service?
Cast your vote at CNN.com/lou. We'll have results for you later in the broadcast.
Coming up next, staggering new information on the number of illegal aliens flooding across our borders every year. We'll have the interview with Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative journalist, "TIME" magazine editor-at-large, Jim Steele. He'll be here.
And "American Jobs," the first documentary on the exporting of American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets and the pain and suffering it causes. All this week, the documentary "American Jobs."
Tonight, a southern community that's been devastated by the loss of thousands of jobs exported overseas. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: This week's "TIME" magazine cover story shatters all previous estimates of the magnitude of this country's immigration crisis. In their astonishing report on the cover of "TIME" magazine this week, "America's Border: Who Left the Door Open?" Pulitzer Prize- winning journalist Donald Barlett and Jim Steele report three million illegal aliens will enter the United States this year. Three million illegal aliens entering the country this year.
Their special cover story investigation also uncovers startling information that demonstrates our nation's borders are now more porous than before the terrorist attacks of September 11.
Joining me now, Jim Steele, "TIME" magazine editor-at-large. Jim, first, congratulations on an extraordinary story.
Let's begin with this number, three million. On this broadcast we have been reporting for some time a million a year. This is a -- you style it an invasion, three million is exactly that.
JIM STEELE, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "TIME": That's a very good question and I will tell you how we came to this. Basically this year they are going to apprehend more than a million illegal aliens largely on the southern border. When you interview law enforcement people down there, border patrol, sheriff's office, policemen and ranchers who are dealing with this day in and day out, week in and week out, the basic percentage they talk about for every one they apprehend, basically three more get through. I talked to some people down there and they will say it is six, seven times as much. We decided to go with basically the conservative estimate. And the people who face this day in and day out, it is just astonishing. The ranchers who see X number of people, let's say apprehended on their property, many a times that many more goes through, leave trash, destroy livestock, create other kinds of problems.
DOBBS: The double-page picture in your magazine in the report of the litter and the trash. I can't commend this story too strongly to you because it is revelatory. You mentioned the Led (ph) ranch of 14,000 ranch in Arizona.
Yes.
DOBBS: What those people are putting up with is incredible.
STEELE: My colleague Don Barlett visited that ranch and talked to John Led (ph) and what he saw was the trash that accumulates. The fact that the man fences are cut basicly almost every day or several times a week. His cattle wander into Mexico and Mexican cattle wand into his land. He spends in a huge amount of time now simply repairing his land that his family's had for generations. And you see that up and down the border.
DOBBS: Why has Arizona become such -- become the major crossing point?
STEELE: Apparently what happened is they did crackdown somewhat in California, and to some extent in Texas, and this became a much more appealing border. Unlike Texas, where you have the river, for the most part in Arizona, it is simply crossing the barbed wire fence or something like that. So it is quite easy to get in there and it is a 350-mile border that the border patrol, as hard as it work down there -- and by the way, we found many hard work border patrol agencies who are very upset by this whole pose process. So you can't blame them for this. It's just a matter of manpower, resources and the fact there are just too many people.
DOBBS: And I want to put up, if we may, we've got a number of graphics based on your reporting that we want to show. If we could have that first graphic, please, to show the audience. This showing the immigration into the United States, basic rising from one million to over three million. And the second graphic, which I think is astonishing here. The number of fines against employers of illegal aliens. As you see there, a 99 percent decline over the course of a decade. As you point out in this reporting, big business. Is a big part of the problem.
STEELE: Big business is a big part of the problem. And basically Washington doesn't want to clamp down on that area. As long as people know that there's a job for them in this country, that they get across that border and that there's something waiting for them, they're going to come. But if employers know that is a serious offense, that it's not going to be tolerated, then they're not going to employ those people and therefore some of that demand will dry up.
DOBBS: The question as you point out in your report, the impact on lower wage levels, jobs and rising now to middle-class jobs as well. The impact on our economy, the so-called externalities. Big business at fault. Why isn't Congress and you point out it is Democrats and Republicans, it's this White House, the previous and those before it...
STEELE: Right.
DOBBS: ... going back to 1986. Why in the world with everyone concerned about this issue, the impact it's having on our society, our culture, our environment, why no action?
STEELE: I can't tell you how many times we ask ourselves that same exact question and the answer we've come up with largely is that basically there's a disconnect. I mean, the political powers in Washington don't recognize that this is a very, very serious issue. We're hoping when they see this story, which isn't just a matter of folks coming in for jobs, but folks coming in from other countries, hostile to the United States, are coming into the midst of it. Maybe they will see the gravity of it for once anyway.
DOBBS: And the fact of the Homeland Security Department are saying our borders are now secure after September 11th.
STEELE: Well, I suggest anybody go down there and walk that border in Arizona, and they will find out just exactly how secure our borders are. And that is not the case. And getting -- and it's gotten much worse this year.
DOBBS: A compelling report, fascinating revelatory report. Jim Steele, editor-at-large, "Time" magazine. Good to have you here.
STEELE: Nice to be with you, Lou.
DOBBS: Still ahead, "American Jobs," an important new documentary on the impact, the exporting of American jobs its having on our middle-class communities all across the country. All of this week, we'll be featuring segments of this documentary. We begin tonight with a town devastated by outsourcing. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: All this week, we're going to bring to you the first ever documentary on the exporting of American jobs to cheap foreign markets and it's devastating impact. We'll be showing you a different portion of the documentary entitled "American Jobs."
Filmmaker Greg Spotts spent months crisscrossing the country talking to some of the hardest work Americans who have been personally effected. We begin tonight in Kannapolis, North Carolina, where there towns largest employer was wiped out by cheap foreign competition along with 1,000s of jobs.
Spotts, talked with Pillowtex workers and officials in Kannapolis about the experience.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I ran a jetso (ph) machine. It cut the wash cloths. It labeled the wash cloths. It hemmed the wash cloth. We inspected the wash cloths off of the machine, and then we repaired our bad hems. So it did cut out five jobs, into one. And we ran three machines, I did. Some of them run two. I run three. I loved it. It made perfect wash cloths, perfect. They just -- of course this was an older one. But it was just, you know, just a straight, just as pretty. Perfect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Late last spring, you'd drive by at various times and the number of cars of workers were greatly diminished.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We only worked a week in May. And then we only worked another week in June.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I asked my supervisor, she lied. Don't make any sense to have all of these people just sitting here thinking one thing, and you all know that the mill is closing. Tell us! So everybody can get prepared to what they are going to do next.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Finally on the 30th of July, they announced a day before one of the deadlines that the plant was just closed. It was gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As the Pillowtex asset are liquidated, Chinese companies are bidding for the right to produce future Cannon label sheets and towels in China, where the average wage of textiles workers is 69 cents an hour.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone had said it on the street that day, it had been like it was grandma dying for a month and finally grandma died. Everyone was so sad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We simply opened up our doors and said, whatever space you need, we have, use it. And we became active with being a host site for a service center.
BRUCE JACOBS, DIRECTOR, SOCIAL SERVICES: In order to get help you really have to lay out your life, your financial situation, your health situation, how many people in the family, what's your relationship is to your significant other. Are they your children, not your children?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't like people in my business is like that. So I try to make-do with my unemployment until they cut it, and they cut it by over $150.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: November. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have health insurance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. Can't afford it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of medicine do you take?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I take blood pressure pill. I'm on thinthroid (ph) every day. I have to have that to live.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are seeing a lot of people who are cutting their medications, trying to save them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, I go big. My doctor in Concord, if I'm close enough to running out to give me a couple to do me until I can get some. Or a little sample pack.
(SINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hard part is people are going to have to start making tough decisions, families moving back in together. People giving up their cars. Possibly giving up their homes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I have the medical insurance and the bankruptcy coming out, plus the regular taxes that you have to pay out of your paycheck. So after all that is said and done, I probably bring home $50 every two weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're facing the ultimate. And I don't want to think it, unless he gets the job in May, we're going to file bankruptcy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really, my whole life just went totally downhill in the last six months. In the last eight months, I weighed 228 pound a year and a half ago, I weigh 155 pounds right now. My mental status, right now, sometimes I feel like I have just plum lost it, really. I mean, it's just a mess. It really is. It's just a mess.
MARK LEVINSON, UNITE UNION: When the largest employer in town shuts down, workers no longer have money, the restaurants close, the schools are starved for money, the support industries can't survive. It is a catastrophe. And unfortunately, this is happening more and more across this country.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Tomorrow, the North America Free Trade Agreement, and just how much, or how little are politicians in Washington understood, and its impact on the middle class in this country. And for more information on the documentary, go to Americanjobsfilm.com. That's Americanjobsfilms.com.
Coming up next here, why French wine, cheese, Milwaukee beer, and I made the pages of the Wall Street Journal today. It's not a pretty story. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: As hundreds of thousands of American jobs are being shipped to cheaper foreign labor markets, the head of India's largest software association said efforts to stop outsourcing have failed. Christine Romans, what do you mean, failed?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Lou, that group is bragging that the U.S. simply cannot stop the move of American jobs to cheap labor markets. Nascom, India's mouthpiece for its moving outsourcing business said, not a single U.S. law intended to keep American jobs at home has worked.
Now, Jagdish Bhagwadi (ph), at the same time making headlines in the op-ed of the Wall Street Journal today, he's a free trader at any cost, arguing with you on your position on outsourcing. Lou, this is what he wrote today. "John Kerry is in the same camp of Lou Dobbs, whose outpouring against sundry forms of imports and outward investments is a farrago of nonsense." That means medley.
And then, instead of arguing the issue, he gets personal. And attacks you here, Lou. He writes, "If firms that buy cheap abroad suffer from corporate greed, then is Mr. Dobbs, whose girth and success doubtless suggests that he buys for supper French brie and Burgundy rather than Milwaukee beer and Kraft cheese to be accused by the same logic by shipping jobs abroad, Lou."
DOBBS: I've been Bhagwadied (ph).
ROMANS: You've been Bhagwadied (ph), I think.
DOBBS: This is remarkable. This from a guy who doesn't believe we should try to stop illegal immigration, doesn't believe we should have protection of our intellectual property rights in trade. The man is, to me, to me it is shameful that he attacks on a personal base. He didn't raise a single argument against anything.
So professor Bhagwadi (ph), Bhagwadied (ph) or not, why don't you read "Exporting America" and assert yourself.
This is really remarkable. And "the Journal" just seems to have no problem with the fact he doesn't believe in intellectual property rights, doesn't care about stopping illegal immigration and all's fine.
ROMANS: Maybe personal attacks sort of deflects away from the actual argument, and arguing your position.
DOBBS: Maybe he doesn't care about middle-class Americans at all. Christine Romans, thank you.
And did you like calling me a fat guy that likes brie and burgundy?
ROMANS: I said girth and success, Lou -- girth.
DOBBS: Absolutely. The fact is, I hate brie and I love cheeseburgers.
Still ahead, the results of our poll tonight. A preview of what's ahead here tomorrow. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, the results of our poll tonight: two-thirds of you say that the economy will be the defining issue in this presidential elections, 20 percent Iraq, national security 10 percent, only 2 percent, the candidate's military service.
Join us tomorrow. Democratic Senator Dick Durbin, a member of the intelligence committee, joins us. and we'll have a disturbing new report for you on hightech jobs being lost in this country. That's tomorrow. Please be with us.
For tonight, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" next.
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