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DIPLOMATIC LICENSE

Current Events at the United Nations

Aired September 17, 2004 - 21:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They work therefore now in a frenzy to delay elections. How else to explain this most recent violence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think if you saw the interview, you saw that the secretary-general was quite reluctant to use that word.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The Chinese government and people strongly condemn and firmly oppose such a gross encroachment on China's internal affairs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD ROTH, CNN ANCHOR: You know something is in the air at the United Nations when men are standing on the roof of the General Assembly building. Secret service, U.N. security, thousands of law enforcement personnel ready to protect the leaders of the world who come to the United Nations on an annual basis for the high-level debate inside the General Assembly hall.

This year, starting next week, the 59th session. Don't come. Believe me. All U.N. tours cancelled, no parking in the area. But we will be there.

Welcome to DIPLOMATIC LICENSE, your entry ticket. I'm Richard Roth.

Another week of bombings, kidnappings and death threats in Iraq. Progress in some parts of the country, but the violence brought fresh talk of chaos and eventual civil war. Not exactly a Pleasant Valley Sunday for the United Nations to come into Iraq to assist with an election early next year.

The U.N. special envoy to Iraq told the Security Council what's going on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHRAF QAZI, U.N. SPECIAL ENVOY TO IRAQ: The transfer of sovereignty to the interim government has not been accompanied by an improvement in the security situation. This is the central challenge facing Iraq today. The main victims of the violence in Iraq are Iraqi civilians. The climate of fear remains entrenched.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: When this general assembly debate occurs, one key player will have switched sides compared to last year. Spain backed the war but is now in the anti-invasion/occupation camp. Prime Minister Zapatero met with German and French leaders this week. Zapatero saying the Old Europe is as good as new, a jab at U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld for old versus new Europe remarks last year.

The French president made it clear on Iraq, this euro-group won't budge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACQUES CHIRAC, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): I think that altogether in one way or another we've opened a Pandora's Box that we are now not capable of closing.

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ROTH: Before peering into that box, there was a puzzling, furious debate late in the week looking back at that decision to invade.

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, upon repeated questioning by a BBC reporter, stated the war with Iraq was illegal. Annan, who always opposed the invasion, cited a breaking with a U.N. charter. The United States and Britain strongly criticized the Annan substance and timing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN DANFORTH, U.S. AMB. TO U.N.: I have a very high regard for the secretary-general. He has not asked me to be his advisor on matters of public relations, what to say, when. If I had been his advisor, which I wasn't, I would have advised him not to say it at all, and if he was going to say it at all, not to say it now.

FRED ECKHARD, U.N. SPOKESMAN: He feels it's no different from what he's been saying for more than a year, and that decision is very well-known to member governments.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Iraq, Annan, President Bush and the General Assembly, all topics to discuss with two U.N.-based journalists who each recently spent several months in Baghdad.

With me here in the studio is Betsy Pisik of the "Washington Times," and at the CNN U.N. office, Mark Turner of the "Financial Times."

Betsy, the "New York Times" reported the Kofi Annan remark story as it created a firestorm, according to the "Times." Do you see it that way?

BETSY PISIK, "WASHINGTON TIMES": I think it's a little overplayed, actually. He has been saying these sorts of things all along. He has been adhering to the U.N. charter. I think it's the timing more than anything else that really has upset the coalition members, especially Washington and London.

ROTH: It was the first time he said illegal, Mark Turner. What do you think of this story?

MARK TURNER, "FINANCIAL TIMES": I think it is interesting that it's the first time he said illegal. He hadn't quite gone down that line before. But at the end of the day, what does it matter? What really matters now is that somebody goes in and actually sort out Iraq, and on this, the United Nations really is in a crisis.

All of its greatest friends and supporters aren't doing anything when the United Nations asks for troops to protect its presence there and this is clearly causing a lot of concern in the highest echelons of the U.N. management.

ROTH: You were both there, and we could talk the Annan thing to death, whether he planned it, whether they pulled the remarks out, but the future is really what everyone should be concentrating on. Everybody now -- it will be a story, if Annan favored the war and is now coming out against it.

Betsy, you've been there for months. I don't know how much access you had. What is the picture there?

PISIK: I would say the picture is pretty grim. I suspect Mark would agree with me on that. But there's general chaos in many places, particularly in Baghdad. Their cities are ground down. There's traffic everywhere. There is so much resentment among ordinary people against both the coalition and the soldiers and also the government that's in place, that's Iraqi people, themselves, and it just looks like it's pretty muddy for the short term.

ROTH: Prime Minister Allawi will be on a 10-day trip. He'll be here, addressing the joint session of Congress and the United Nations.

Mark, do they think of Allawi still as that CIA contact informant that he was before the war? What do you sense there in the streets?

TURNER: Well, when I was there, and I have to be honest with you, I wasn't -- I left around three weeks ago. People were still kind of waiting to see what Allawi would be. He had a brief honeymoon period where things seemed to calm down and there was almost some hope that the violence would desist. Then there was in fact -- the violence began to rise again and then also some rumors went around about whether Allawi himself had actually taken part in some violent acts.

The actual view of Allawi now, I don't know. I think people are still probably willing to give him a little more time, but really that time is running out pretty fast now.

ROTH: I don't want to spread any fear, but the day that Allawi talks to the United Nations next Friday, I wouldn't be strolling down too many Baghdad Rasheed (ph) Street corners.

Betsy, are the people there just so caught up, what will be their reaction with the United Nations trying to insist on an election? How do they view the United Nations?

PISIK: To the United Nations' surprise, not very well. The United Nations is consider to be either a tool of the Americans, the group that imposed sanctions, the people that couldn't help them when it was time to - - under Saddam.

So now the fact that they've cut and run, as it's popularly seen, the United Nations has a lot of ground to make up just to get back to the point where it's seen as that body that should be doing some good, and it's going to take a lot more than 35 executives.

ROTH: Mark?

TURNER: I would add to what Betsy said, that there are also kind of curiously mixed messages coming from the government on the United Nations. On the one hand, Hoshiyar Zibari, the foreign minister, has consistently called for the United Nations to come back, to play more of a role and help with elections and so forth.

On the other hand, for example, when there was recent fighting in Najaf and in the south, with Muqtada al Sadr, Kofi Annan and the United Nations offered to help negotiate and the message from the government was, "Not here, thanks very much. We don't need your help on that." So, mixed messages.

ROTH: Lest anyone forget, 22 people, the U.N. building, blown up August 19, 2003.

What about this special envoy? We heard from him earlier, Ashraf Qazi. I mean, that's a pretty tough job he's got.

PISIK: He's got a pretty tough job and it's a dangerous one, too. I think one of the things that's going to account for whether they can do any job at all is how many people they can bring back and how quickly they can be seen as some kind of force for any kind of organization or stability or even technical advice. And if they're stuck in the Green Zone or traveling behind a cordon of American soldiers, it's not going to be very effective.

TURNER: What's interesting about this, I find, Richard, is that it's not just Iraq. This cuts to the heart of the U.N.'s complete crisis of confidence right now as to what it's role in the world is at all. I mean, it's being -- had similar problems in Afghanistan. It's very concerned about the U.S. approach. And at the moment, I think you'll find at this General Assembly we'll see a certain among of head scratching and wondering about what kind of role the United Nations should be playing to deal with terrorism, weapons of mass destruction.

ROTH: But they're all going to be able to hang on and say, well, there's this big report, which the public is not too familiar with, which Kofi Annan commissioned, an eminent person's panel. A big report due in December, supposedly to explain just what the direction of the United Nations should be.

TURNER: You're right, they will. But there are a lot of heads of state and government who are coming here next week to try and get in their two bits worth first, and in fact we'll see one interesting thing is Germany, India, Brazil and Japan are going to make a kind of big joint bid for permanent seats on the Security Council next week, and we'll see that.

PISIK: Don't forget Egypt.

TURNER: Oh, really? Is Egypt now there?

PISIK: Yes, yes.

ROTH: Are they going to run in and take the chairs and refuse to get up? What's going to happen? They'll meet on the sidelines, right?

TURNER: They'll meet on the sideline. They'll have a mini-summit of some sort. They'll all do a joint communiqu‚. The classic sort of things that people do at the United Nations. But they'll also be counting votes and lobbying furiously in the margins and trying to basically see who can support them and how they can get that support.

ROTH: Basically, the Security Council now 15 members. There is talk of increasing it to 23, 25. I mean, the entire membership is 191.

Betsy, how will President Bush be received at this General Assembly? The violence really took off after the last appearance there, time-wise, so he's coming back without being a conquering president in Iraq.

PISIK: Well, not only that, but he's being seen as a candidate as well and before a world body that's not all that supportive right now of what -- they miss Clinton -- I mean, it's perfectly clear when you talk to any of the diplomats.

But I'd be curious to hear what he has to say when he gets here, because it's an organization that's on edge.

ROTH: Mark, final comment from you. I mean, there was a rocket attack on President Karzai in Afghanistan. President Bush keeps talking about success there. Go ahead.

TURNER: Well, he can talk about success all he likes. I think he's got a lot of convincing to do.

But I think the interesting thing about this election is the degree to which until there is an elected U.S. president and the rest of the U.N. members know who that is going to be, the United Nations actually is going to find it very hard to decide how to go ahead, so I think a lot is on hold until the elections are decided.

ROTH: All right, Mark Turner, of the "Financial Times," thank you very much. Betsy Pisik, "Washington Times," they will be watching all through next week Kofi Annan's opening remarks concentrating on the rule of law. We'll all be listening.

As for Secretary-General Kofi Annan he provoked a lot of reaction with his Iraq's comments. A different action produced consternation among some members of the U.N. press corps.

The story: Taiwan has stepped up its drive to become a U.N. member state. This year a fancy television commercial, bus stops in other years, along with this year, votes, demonstrations, all in a bid to dramatize it's annual fruitless bid.

Taiwan wanted to hold a video news conference with U.N. correspondents in the U.N. correspondent room. Kofi Annan said no.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ECKHARD: You have to understand that this building belongs to governments and it's an organization of governments with certain constraints.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: So Taiwan moved the press conference across the street to a hotel. The president of the country, which China calls a renegade province, says it is a victim of political apartheid by China.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We believe that our quest to join the United Nations is not aimed at provoking China. We are not seeking to represent China in the United Nations. Instead, Taiwan is Taiwan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: But inside the Committee Room and the General Assembly, debating the issue, 120 countries addressed what Gambia called the burning question of equitable representation for the 23 million people of Taiwan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As of now, the people of Taiwan have no representation whatsoever in this world body. In this era of threats and new challenges to the international system, leaving out any nation, especially a significant actor in world affairs like Taiwan, is indeed foolhardy and counterproductive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): A very small number of countries have once again raised the issue of so-called Taiwan's participation in the United Nations this year. The purpose of such an act is nothing but to create two Chinas, one China, one Taiwan, in the United Nations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: In the end, Taiwan failed to win enough votes to even put the issue on the U.N. membership for the agenda for the coming General Assembly session.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This repetitious and wasteful debate in General Committee consumes the Committee's valuable time and energy which, as we all know, needs to be devoted to more substantive items.

We hope that it is for the last time that we are discussing this question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): (UNINTELLIGIBLE) General Committee decides not to recommend the inclusion of this item on the agenda of the 59th session. I hear no objection. It is so decided.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROTH: An (UNINTELLIGIBLE) was seen outside the Security Council a few months ago. The high and mighty inside discussing the fate of the world, and one lady, the support staff at the United Nations, keeping things tidy outside.

There is a large meeting Monday morning at the United Nations about labor, globalization, and tons of U.N. speak-words that we're not going to use with our next guest, the Director General of the International Labor Organization Juan Somavia, based in Geneva. He's the man at this New York event. He's the moderator.

Ambassador -- and you're a former Chilean ambassador on the Security Council -- why will the average employee or unemployed person not think that this is another talk-fest with no relation to his or her plight?

JUAN SOMAVIA, INTL. LABOR ORG.: Because everybody in the world is saying give me a fair chance at a decent job. And what this meeting is about and not the meeting, the report that underlies it, about the fair globalization, is about putting job creation at the heart of international policies, and that's what people want.

ROTH: Now, this report, an international independent panel report, in effect I read -- it said there is no magic solution, so how do you try to work on this problem?

SOMAVIA: Look everybody is worried about globalization from one side or the other. What we need is to concentrate on decent work and decent work that's done by more balanced and sustainable global growth, the right environment for investment, and to generate the jobs that you have.

Today you have an under-performing international system, because the international organizations all have their own mandates. They come to countries and say, look, these are monetary things, do this on labor, do this on this other thing, and they have to come together to make sure we can deliver those things.

ROTH: Which country is not willing to go along? Why would the United States want to get involved again in a large international, you know, effort like this? They would say, hey, be productive, do your own thing.

SOMAVIA: Look at the American election, the whole outsourcing issue is a globalization issue. But the Africa countries are going to say, yes, but what about the price of my commodities, and the subsidies to agricultural products? Others will say what about my market access? Business says I need more flexibility. Labor says I need more security. How are you going to solve this without dialogue?

ROTH: The report reflected on terrorism also. What is its impact?

SOMAVIA: I think that the basic thing is that if you really look at all of our societies, the most pervasive security threat is the level of unemployment that the world has today. Over 1 billion people unemployed, underemployed and working poor. That's the security risk.

ROTH: How does the work of the politicians, the government, you know, filter down when it's really private businesses that really are the engine?

SOMAVIA: Yes, but they can't do it alone. They need the enabling environment. We need to make sure that we have a stable international situation, you know.

So what this report is about, what the dialogue is about, is that you cannot solve this problem unless you get the stake holders together and think together about how to address these questions. Any of them, individually, or any of the international organizations in the region who cannot say I have a solution, just listen to me, it's not true.

But we're not working together enough and we're not creating the spaces like this Commission did to put very unlike-minded people together. The biggest strength of this report is that you have people that think very differently on globalization that came together and said, hey, look, the situation is critical, but we don't need to throw globalization out the window. We can change it. And it's full of doable recommendations.

ROTH: Do you think the United Nations should be focusing more on economic issues. Inside the Security Council there is talk of combining the Economic Council and the Security Council because the focus really is always on war and peace when people just care about where they have their next meal or job.

SOMAVIA: Look, the United Nations loves to discuss institutions.

ROTH: And come up with loads of reports and.

(CROSSTALK)

SOMAVIA: I would just use the institutions that you have, that we have, but make sure that they work together.

ROTH: Now, you talk about outsourcing and the report by this panel talks about a brain drain and people -- how do you stop people who -- companies who want to get a sweater for 25-cents in some far Southeast Asian country while closing a factory in Vermont or Nevada?

SOMAVIA: This is when you take a look at the whole thing together, and that's where the role for everybody comes in, because that's what's going to go generate jobs everywhere, and that's what you don't have today.

But one thing about the outsourcing, when you look at it from a developing country's point of view, they say hey, you've been telling us that we need to establish (UNINTELLIGIBLE) which don't care for the labor standards of our workers.

ROTH: The report.

SOMAVIA: So you have to take a look at both sides.

ROTH: The report talks about moving from confrontation to dialogue, but still some people, despite your good intentions, may be a little bit numbed by that. You're going to have a lot of dialogue at the United Nations. Is it just speeches? I noticed French President Chirac seems to be coming in for your event, but I don't know if he's staying for the rest of the General Assembly. What does that mean?

SOMAVIA: Look, I have an international organization that is made up of governments, representatives of business, and trade unions. You know, on my governing body I have all three of them. And we've lasted for 85 years. Dialogue is possible.

We've been able, through the ILO, to give the foundations of what the labor laws worldwide are today and we've changed the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) there they are. Of course a dialogue works. The moment you give up on dialogue, you wind up with force as the only solution to things, and this is what the United Nations stands for, but this is particularly what the ILO stands for, because we've proven that this is possible and this report particularly, because this is the first report that proves, that demonstrates, that on the basis of dialogue, we don't have to have a black and white answer to globalization, but a common ground is possible.

ROTH: Juan Somavia, thank you very much. We've dialogued here. Speeches next Monday morning at the United Nations. He's the Director General of the International Labor Organization, the ILO, second term, five more years. President Bush wants four more years.

One country, Mr. Somavia, which could use some economic help is Liberia, in Africa. The Security Council on Friday asked for nations to pony up what they promised, more than $500 million in aid. The capital of Monrovia, no running water or electricity, no sewage system, and U.N. Special Envoy to Liberia Jacques Klein says help.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACQUES KLEIN, U.N. SPECIAL ENVOY TO LIBERIA: You see, when you talk to a foreign businessman as I do and say it's time to come to invest, to get in on the ground floor, he says, well, what will I use for electricity? I can't run any generators, which is what we're doing. Where's the water? So, you know, we need electricity, we need water. You need the basic infrastructure in order to entice foreign businesses to come in and help you rebuild a society.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROTH: Please send us your thoughts. E-mail our program at this e- mail address: Diplomatic.License@CNN.com. Anything on the United Nations, Kofi Annan, world employment, my tie. We can't wait to read what you write.

In fact, here's what some of you recently wrote. On last week's Sudan program:

"The Irish-based international charity Concern has been shouting genocide from the rooftops for months without any support of the European Union or the United States. In fact, they were derided for saying so. The Sudanese government are a bunch of liars and supporting mass murder." Kind regards, Peter Power Heinz (ph) of the group Concern, in London.

The next e-mail on our program about the Republican Convention: "I do not agree with having an ambassador explaining the Dutch point of view. The ambassador is being paid by the government and will surely lose his job if he expresses any other opinion, which should be that, of course, the U.S. administration is bribing." That's from Hans Fecus (ph) about the Dutch ambassador to Washington who was at the Republican Convention.

And about my report last week that people in Austria said California Governor Schwarzenegger was inaccurate in his convention speech about World War II: "There were no Soviet tanks in the Austrian province of Styria, where Arnold Schwarzenegger grew up, but there were in other parts of Austria. Why the confusion? It could not be more clear when we had to cross into the Soviet sector. I do not understand why CNN keeps repeating disinformation from the Kerry campaign." That's from Gunner Larson (ph) in Sweden.

And about last week's pooch patrol, new cost-effective security bomb- sniffing dogs for the United Nations: "Your comments about the assistant secretary-general dogs were cute, but please tell us a little bit about how they can cost over $300,000 a year to maintain." Charlotte Gimm (ph), in Germany.

Well, Charlotte, the United Nations says the dogs had to do two shifts, it's a sophisticated operation. Now it's eight dogs for the same price as two U.N. employees.

That's DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. Next week, a full report on the General Assembly madness.

I'm Richard Roth, in New York. Thanks for watching.

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