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CNN SUNDAY NIGHT

Interview With Ty Hensley; Another Kennedy Tries His Hand at Politics

Aired September 19, 2004 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: From the CNN Global Headquarters in Atlanta, this is CNN SUNDAY NIGHT. Ahead this hour, an American kidnapped in Iraq and possibly facing death. I'm going to be talking with Jack Hensley's brother about the looming deadline.
Also...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R-IL), HOUSE SPEAKER: I think they'll try to influence this election, just like they tried to influence the election in Spain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: The controversial comments of a top Republican that al Qaeda wants John Kerry to win the White House.

And later, this man gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "grab the bull by the horns." What happened to the cow poke who tried to capture him?

These stories and a lot more next on CNN SUNDAY NIGHT.

Good evening, I'm Carol Lin. Up front tonight, keeping with the tradition. Another Kennedy is trying his luck at politics. How the famous family is helping out.

Also, cashing in on his soup and his fame. The man who spawned Seinfeld's character Soup Nazi joins me live about his latest endeavor. And in rap sheet, don't pass go. Don't collect $200. Why domestic diva Martha Stewart is ditching her legal appeal, eager to head straight to jail.

But we begin tonight with growing doubts and growing violence in Iraq. Several senators from both sides of the aisle are questioning whether President Bush is giving an honest assessment of what's going on. "The New York Times" says American commanders plan an all out assault on Fallujah by the end of the year. Insurgents right now are threatening to kill 10 workers from an American-Turkish firm if their company does not pull out of Iraq.

And an Islamic group is claiming to have captured 15 members of the Iraqi National Guard. Iraq's interim government disputes that claim, saying it doesn't know of any missing troops. And Islamic militants say they have beheaded three members of the Iraqi-Kurdish Democratic party taken hostage in Taji, just north of Baghdad.

And we believe the deadline has passed for two Americans and a British citizen who were kidnapped. The hostage takers threaten to cut off their heads unless the U.S. releases female prisoners in Iraq. Jack Hensley is sitting on the far right of this video. We've highlighted him there. His wife, Patty, talked to CNN about the family's ordeal.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PATTY HENSLEY, WIFE OF JACK HENSLEY: ...I've known the man 23 years. He is one of the kindest, gentlest people who wanted to help and the last person in the world that I would have expected this to happen to. You know...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well, Patty Hensley used to agree with U.S. policy not to negotiate with terrorists, but not anymore. She desperately wants her husband home.

His brother Ty Hensley is in New York tonight. Ty, thank you very much for being with us. I know this has got to be a really tough day for you, knowing that this deadline has loomed and perhaps has passed. Have you heard anything at all, either from the government, the FBI, even the company that your brother worked for?

TY HENSLEY, BROTHER OF AMERICAN HOSTAGE: At this point, I do not have an update at all, not at all.

LIN: Nothing. What does that tell you?

HENSLEY: Well, I have actually taken myself out of contact with most sources. I've kind of worked and tried to enlist help. And I have done so. And at this point, I am pleading to the people who are responsible for my brother's life, people who wish to decide whether he lives or dies, I would like for them to know some very important things that Jack Hensley was treated so well as a guest in their country, and that they -- the people -- the Iraqi people that he worked with had issued a great level of hospitality to him. I believe it was earned from what I understand their culture.

The Jack Hensley was my T-ball coach. I mean, Jack Hensley -- we never won a game, but he was my big brother. And he was wonderful to everyone that he knows. He has a wonderful sense of humor. I have modeled -- raising my children from the way he's raised his.

LIN: His daughter, Sarah.

HENSLEY: And he was so close. That's correct.

LIN: Yes, you've given us some beautiful pictures of your brother. HENSLEY: Thank you.

LIN: And his daughter, Sarah. There, he's reading her a Peter Pan book when she was very young. She's only 13-years old now. How is she taking this news? How is the family trying to protect her?

HENSLEY: I do not know exactly what they are doing at that point. I am in contact with Patty, but as far as how they are talking with her and handling her, I believe they're trying to keep her removed from the media, and just let her be a little girl.

And again, we're hoping for the best. I'm truly hoping that the people who are responsible for my brother's life will learn that they do not have a person that was causing anyone any harm. He was a friend of the Iraqi people.

I received so much correspondence from people that he worked with, the Iraqi folks. And they are so saddened by this. His neighbors were friends with him. And it's -- it is an extraordinarily disappointing that they have the person that picked me up from school in first grade.

LIN: Ty, you know the U.S. policy is to not negotiate with hostage takers. Patty, your brother's wife, has said that she believes the United States should make an exception in this case. What do you think should -- what do you think the U.S. government or the U.S. military should do to save your brother's life?

HENSLEY: Carol, in this situation, I don't have enough information. But from what I have read on our American sites and sites that are representative of the Middle East, that the demands that have been made are not any demands that can be fulfilled. We are not showing that there are women in these prisons.

And to me, they were demands just looking to try to kill an innocent person. And I am not going to let them know -- I want them to know that this is a very good man, and that he is not involved in the types of things that they are so strongly against.

LIN: Do you know whether the U.S. government is doing anything at all proactively to try to save your brother?

HENSLEY: I have asked for guidance. And I have completely opened my telephone lines. I can be found. These people, if they want to negotiate, or if they want to talk to me for my family, there are channels through the embassy that they can talk to us.

LIN: Are you talking about the U.S. embassy? Or are you talking about the kidnappers themselves?

HENSLEY: The U.S. -- the kidnappers if they wish to reach us, they can certainly find us through the U.S. embassy. And anyone, if they want to try to talk to someone, we are completely available, but all we know is they dropped the tape off. And it does not have any way we can get in contact with them.

LIN: And as far as what the U.S. government is doing to help your brother?

HENSLEY: I sincerely believe that the people that I have been around in the top two, their first and foremost goal is to get my brother home alive and the wonderful man that he also works with, home alive.

LIN: Ty Hensley, we wish you and your family well. We want to know from you as soon as you hear anything at all about your brother Jack. We pray for you. And we hope that the deadline is not hard and fast.

HENSLEY: Thank you for helping me. Thank you.

LIN: Thank you. Ty, Hensley.

Well, Jack Hensley, kidnapped in Iraq. Even his own wife told us that before this unfortunate scenario hit home. She believed the government should not negotiate with kidnappers for the release of hostages. Patty Hensley had a change of heart.

So we want to hear from you tonight. Should the U.S. negotiate with hostage takers in Iraq to save American lives? Give us a call at 1-800-807-2620. And we're going to air your responses at the end of the program.

And so here is the violent picture in Iraq just today. A suicide bomber killed an Iraqi soldier and a civilian at a checkpoint in Samarra. Three Iraqi soldiers and four American soldiers were wounded. U.S. forces recently re-entered the town after pulling out in June.

And a U.S. Marine tank opened fire on what Marines say was a rebel defensive position near Fallujah. A local hospital official said three people were killed and two wounded. The Marines refuse any comment so far.

Now the prime minister of Iraq is trying to show that his interim government is in fact in control of Iraq and ready for elections in January.

Now first, he went to see the U.S.' strongest ally in the war, British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AYAD ALLAWI, IRAQI INTERIM PRIME MINISTER: We definitely are going to stick to the time table of the elections in January next year. We are doing our best to ensure that we'll meet the time of the elections. We are adamant that democracy is going to prevail. It's going to win in Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Ayad Allawi will address a join meeting of Congress this week. And Friday, he will be at the United Nations. And that is where President Bush will be on Tuesday. He is going to address the Iraq War once again, but is also expected to present a more humanitarian agenda of world poverty and AIDS.

CNN will, of course, be carrying the president's speech live. So stay tuned.

But the war on terror still offers both Republicans and Democrats a loaded gun in a campaign year, metaphorically speaking of course. Republican House Speaker Dennis Hastert was at a fund-raiser for Dick Cheney, when he implied al Qaeda would prefer that John Kerry win the election.

CNN's Elaine Quijano has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the battle to convince voters who would make a stronger leader, House speaker Dennis Hastert fired another salvo against John Kerry. Hastert said what many, including officials in the Bush administration have said before, that he believes al Qaeda could try to influence the election, but then said of the terrorists...

HASTERT: I would think that they would be more apt to go -- somebody would file a, you know, a lawsuit with the world court or something, rather than respond with troops.

QUIJANO: Earlier, a reporter asked him directly whether believed al Qaeda could operate with a little more comfort with John Kerry as president, rather than George Bush. Hastert's answer?

HASTERT: That's my opinion, yes.

QUIJANO: That provoked a sharp response from Senator Kerry's running mate John Edwards, campaigning in Pennsylvania. He accused Hastert of joining the "fear mongering choir."

Let me just say this in the simplest possible terms. When John Kerry is president of the United States, we will find al Qaeda where they are and crush them before they can do damage to the American people.

Democrats points out how Hastert's comments come on the heels of recent remarks by Vice President Dick Cheney, calling on voters to, in his words, make the right choice on election day.

Look, it's absolutely essential that eight weeks from today on November 2, we make the right choice. Because if we make the wrong choice, then the danger is that we'll get hit again.

The vice president has since clarified his remarks, saying he meant President Bush will pursue a more effective anti-terrorism policy. Still, Democrats say the latest comments by Hastert are outrageous.

TERRY MCAULIFFE, DNC CHAIRMAN: It is disgraceful. There should have no room for this in our political discourse.

QUIJANO: One Republican lawmaker also took aim at the idea.

SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: I don't think terrorists in the world sit around the fire camp gauging who's the easier president to deal with.

ANNOUNCER: $200 billion, that's what we're spending in Iraq...

QUIJANO: With just over six weeks until election day, the Kerry campaign is ratcheting up its rhetoric on Iraq, launching a new TV ad in battleground states.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As President, I'll stop at nothing to get the terrorism where they get us. But I'll also fight to build a stronger middle class.

QUIJANO: Their message? That President Bush has made wrong and costly choices on Iraq. Without properly funding domestic programs, including education and health care.

(on camera): The Bush campaign accuses the Kerry camp of flailing about, attacking they say, because their candidate hasn't voiced clear positions on the issues, especially Iraq. They continue to try to drive home the image of Kerry as a flip flopper, who voted for the use of force, but against funding the troops.

The Kerry camp meantime maintains the senator's position has not changed, that his first vote reflected a desire to do something about Saddam Hussein. And his second vote? His displeasure at the way President Bush went about it.

Elaine Quijano, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And still to come on CNN SUNDAY NIGHT, keeping the dynasty alive. Another member of the Kennedy clan throws his name in the political ring. Plus, "Seinfeld" has cashed in on one New York soup seller. Now the real life Soup Seller is cashing in on his soup. I'll explain.

And staying the course in Iraq. Can the U.S. really help to rebuild Iraq? Or is it time to pack up and head home? We're going to debate the issue, coming up next in our hot topic tonight.

And plus, I want to hear from you. Should the U.S. negotiate with hostage takers in Iraq to save American lives? Give us a call at 1-800-807-2620.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Our hot topic tonight is what it might take to save hostages in Iraq. Remember when kidnappers released a Filipino hostage after the Filipino government met their demands and pulled forces out of Iraq? But the U.S. will not negotiate with terrorists. That is the official policy.

Rob Sobhani is an adjunct professor of U.S. foreign policy at Georgetown University and Akbar Akmed teaches International Relations at American University and "Road to Islam: Under Siege." Thanks both of you for being with us tonight.

ROB SOBHANI, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Thank you.

LIN: Professor Sobhani, I'm just wondering, the -- one of the -- wife of one of the American hostages believes that the United States should not follow its policy and try to negotiate for the release of her husband.

Obviously, she's speaking from an emotional standpoint. What will it take to save these hostages' lives?

SOBHANI: Carol, I think it depends on how you define negotiation. Yes, if we can talk to the hostage takers or their representatives, and threaten them, and tell them that if you take our people, if you threaten our people, if you behead our people, there will be severe consequences, than that's going to negotiation.

But to cave into the hostage takers will be caving in to the broader issue, which is the freedom of the Iraqi people, and allowing these terrorists to really create instability in Iraq.

LIN: Dr. Akmed, what do you think?

AKBAR AKMED, AMERICAN UNIV.: I think if the objective is to save the life of this person and indeed some of the other hostages. And if that it is the priority, then we have to in fact think of negotiation, not perhaps directly, but in direct channels. This is always done -- all governments do it. America has many Arab friends there. And those negotiations could begin so that if he's -- this individual life is safe, because to show threat of violence to people like the hostage takers is in fact counterproductive. You are dealing with highly emotional, almost imbalanced people.

LIN: Well, our military analyst Ken Robinson said earlier to me tonight that the hostage takers have made what they knew was an impossible demand, the demand to release female prisoners out of two specific prisons in Iraq.

The U.S. military says they don't have any female prisoners. Ken Robinson says the intent of the hostage takers was never actually to have their demand met, but simply to get the publicity that they were speaking, by once again, taking three Western hostages? What do you think, Professor Sobhani?

SOBHANI: Well, let's keep in mind the same people who are taking American hostages are also the people who took the Iraqi people hostage during the time that Saddam Hussein was in power.

Either the same people that beheaded Iraqis, beheaded women, children, in front of their other family members. They may be unstable, but they understand force. And they must be dealt with, with force, or else, this will continue.

There's one thing that people in that part of the world, recognize and understand, and that's force.

LIN: Dr. Akmed, you at one time actually believed that the United States or the U.S. coalition could actually win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. Here we find ourselves in a situation, an incredibly violent week, and now American commanders are reportedly planning an all out assault on Fallujah and Samarra by the end of the year. Do you still believe that to be true, that the Iraqi people support the U.S. coalition's efforts? And the upcoming elections in January?

AKMED: Well, any situation like this has two prongs to the strategy. We've seen the military side. And as you are pointing out, there is going to be a basic strike. And that's force and violence.

And on the other hand, you do have the effort to win the hearts and minds of the people. And that has to constantly be kept alive, otherwise if that doesn't happen, then the relationship...

LIN: So you think it's there? You think the support for the coalition is there?

AKMED: Absolutely. Absolutely, because all the efforts to build schools and to build roads and to bring water schemes and so on, that has to be maintained, otherwise the relationship between Americans and the Iraqi people will be based on nothing but force, force, and force.

And I have been an administrator in Muslim lands on the borders of Afghanistan and Pakistan. And that is a very (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And in terms of a long term relationship, it's a completely bankrupt and sterile relationship. Doesn't need to very much in the future.

LIN: But Professor Sobhani, with the upcoming election coming up in this country, many Americans might be asking is it time just to get our Iraq, cut our losses?

SOBHANI: Well, I don't think so, Carol. Because if Iraq becomes a failed state, it would mean a disaster for the region. And this, by the way, is a region where 67 percent of the world's remaining oil reserves are located. We cannot afford to abandon Iraq. What we need to do is engage the Arab world, especially the rich countries of the Persian Gulf, have them help us together build schools, build hospitals, build roads and bridges, employ Iraqis.

I think it's one, a failure of our diplomacy so far has been that we have not publicly asked our Arab allies to pitch in and help rebuild Iraq together.

LIN: So Professor Sobhani, then, what are you expected to hear from Ayad Allawi, before the United States? What do you expected to hear? Or what do you need to hear from President Bush on Tuesday when he addresses that body as well.

SOBHANI: I think from Ayad Allawi, we're going to hear a plea for help, and not just from the United States, but from his fellow Arab neighbors. Because once again, given the price of oil the way it is, the rich countries of the Persian Gulf are indeed rich. And they can help rebuild Iraq. We need to ask our friends to do that.

President Bush, I think, is going to ask for time. Let's keep in mind, we have won the hearts and minds of some Iraqis. I'd say the majority of us, silent majority of Americans, the Kurds for example, I think what we're seeing is a small group of people, determined, who are basically out to do us harm and the Iraqi people harm.

LIN: Rob Sobhani, Akbar Akmed, I wish we had more time. But thank you very much for joining us tonight.

AKMED: Thank you.

SOBHANI: Thank you very much.

LIN: Still to come, our spotlight is on the art of begging. A look at how children and adults are forced to survive on the streets of Baghdad. Plus, what's left after Ivan? People come to grips with their losses. And what's coming after Ivan ? For some, it's Jeanne. Where it's going and what you can expect, we're taking a look at the death toll already in Haiti, coming up.

And we want to hear from you. Should the U.S. negotiate with hostage takers in Iraq to save American lives? Give us a call at 1- 800-807-2620.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Well, when you lose, practically everything to a hurricane, you have to ask the hard questions. What can be repaired? What can be replaced? And where is the money going to come from?

A promise of fast financial help today in person from the White House. Here, Marine One you can see in the screen with President Bush on board, getting a bird's eye view of the battered Alabama beach front. And there he is, on the ground near Pensacola with first brother and Florida Governor in tow.

The president met families made homeless by the storm and promised them he is going to work to ensure federal aid starts flowing southward quickly.

Now in North Carolina's hill country, they also need help tonight, but a much more urgent kind. Four people are still missing, days after Ivan's downpour sent part of a mountain crashing into their town.

CNN's Brian Todd is there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Slogging through mud, water, and debris, search and rescue crews work tirelessly. Canine teams search for bodies. Recovery is a grinding, heartbreaking process.

Aerial photos show the path of a mudslide that destroyed at least a dozen homes in Peeke's Creek, a tiny valley community outside Franklin, North Carolina.

WARREN CABE, EMERGENCY MGMT. DIR. MACON, N.C.: You have to understand the area. And you have to have seen the area that we're dealing with here. Foot searches and foot reconnaissance in some of these areas is almost impossible.

TODD: Officials say they don't believe it was a tornado that ripped a gash out of this mountain and triggered the mudslide, but they're not sure what it was.

(on camera): Search and rescue is only part of the story here, because what's left of Peeke's Creek may never be the same for a group of families who have been here for generations.

(voice-over): Five generations for Wayne Haire and his family. They're one of a few families who traced their lineage in this valley back to the first settlers in the 1820s.

Haire's house survived the storm. But just a few feet away, a whole side of the street is almost gone.

WAYNE HAIRE, HOUSE SURVIVED MUDSLIDE: It's hard for all of us to go back. But it's still home and I'll go back and I'll do what I can to make it right again and to get it back to -- as near as we can to what it was.

TODD: But going back means different things to Haire's daughters, who describe an idyllic place to grow up.

JULIE TASTINGER, GREW UP IN PEEKE'S CREEK: From the moment we got up to the moment even after the sun went down, we were outside. I mean, that was our playground.

TODD: Now her sister shudders at what it's like to visit her old neighborhood.

JACKIE WHITESIDE, GREW UP IN PEEKE'S CREEK: It's totally different. It doesn't look at all the same. Like it -- on the right side, it does, for the most part. That's what side I want to look at when I go up there. The left side...

TODD: An older sister put the sense of loss in perspective. "To be honest," she said, "she's just thankful that everyone in her family made it out alive."

Brian Todd, CNN, Franklin, North Carolina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And another storm is on the way with the shores or the echoes of Ivan still ringing in the southeast. The next system heading this direction is drenching the Bahamas tonight. Tropical storm Jeanne with sustained winds of about 50 miles per hour is whirling northeast of Nassau and moving northward. Now in Haiti alone, 54 people have been killed in Jeanne's flooding and devastating winds. More than 150 people are still unaccounted for.

Haiti's neighbor on Hispaniola, the Dominican Republic, also raked by Jeanne. The storm killed at least 10 people there and forced thousands from what's left of their homes. Forecasters say Jeanne has lost considerable punch, though, and after dropping some rain on the Bahamas, is not likely to pose much more of a threat. Of course, that can change.

So let's find out what the situation is right now in Haiti. Joining me on the phone from Port au Prince is Toussaint Kongo-Doudou, the communications director for the United Nations.

Toussaint, the death toll there, so many people, more than 100 people still missing. How does a tropical storm cause that much damage and kill so many people?

TOUSSAINT KONGO-DOUDOU, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR UNITED NATIONS: I mean, the storm was so strong. And it's led to 80 percent of Gonaives, which is about mid of 1,000 people, underwater. There about 80,000 people affected by the flood. And as you say, 50 body bombs so far. And more than 150 people are unaccounted for.

Fortunately, may rise. They have up to over 200 person. So what we are doing here, Ministrua (ph), which is the United Nations optimization mission in Haiti.

I sent today 12 helicopters flight to the affected area. And we sent also medical team of six medical...

LIN: All right, we may have lost a phone connection with Toussaint Kongo-Doudou. He is the communications director for the United Nations there in Haiti. Help is on the way. And clearly, Haiti needs more help from the international community.

In the meantime, keeping the tradition alive, one Kennedy is making sure the name never dies.

Plus, speaking candidly with the police. Kobe Bryant's private and graphic conversation with authorities goes public. Who leaked the transcripts to a newspaper? And how will it affect his civil trial?

Plus, his hot soups and hot temper have made him famous. Now the man who inspired the character, the soup Nazi, it's cashing in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Taking a look at the headlines tonight and tomorrow. Waiting for word, the family of a Georgia man captured in Iraq is urging the U.S. government to negotiate his release. Now minutes ago, Ty Hensley talked to me about his brother.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HENSLEY: Jack Hensley was my T-ball coach. Jack Hensley -- we never won a game, but he was my big brother.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Possible terrorism in southern Turkey. A Turkish news agency reports a bomb planted inside a police car blew up at a rock concert today, injuring 14 people. A local official says two other suspicious packages were found and detonated.

Another Kennedy enters politics. Bobby Shriver, son of Eunice Kennedy Shriver and brother of Maria Shriver, kicked off his run for city council in Santa Monica, California today. Now Shriver says he has no other political aspirations.

Scott Peterson, Kobe Bryant, and Martha Stewart on the rap sheet tonight. First, the prosecutors in Scott Peterson's murder trial start winding up their case this week. Prosecutors dispensed with the time lines and the phone recordings last week. And got to incredibly graphic and emotional evidence that had jurors and family members turning their heads away.

CNN's Rusty Dornin reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Faced with autopsy photos of his unborn son, Scott Peterson appeared to weep in court. He wasn't the only one. Some jurors seemed overcome by the graphic pictures of the fetus and Laci Peterson's decomposed body.

Prosecutors believe the young expectant mother was strangled, her body thrown into the Bay. The fetus, they believed, was expelled from the victim's body, as it decayed in the water. The pathologist who performed the autopsy said the baby, to be named Connor, was definitely not born through the birth canal. Some legal analysts say it was strong evidence for prosecutors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Connor ultimately came out of the top of the uterus, once Laci's body began to decompose. That's certainly negates any idea of double colts, abductors holding on to the baby after they've disposed of Laci's body, anything like that.

DORNIN: The defense has implied taped discovered around the unborn baby's neck was put there by the killers after the baby was born. The pathologist told the court he believes the tape was likely just debris from the bag.

An anthropologist testified that based on bone measurements, the fetus was anywhere from 33 to 38 weeks old. That, some analysts say, could help the defense argument that Laci Peterson may not have died on Christmas Eve, but was killed sometime later.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All we have to do is raise a doubt as to whether Scott Peterson did it. And if these bodies were not put in the water on December 24th, and if the evidence is consistent with that, that raises a doubt.

DORNIN: A number of witnesses are expected to testify this week, including two of the main police investigators.

Rusty Dornin, CNN, Redwood City, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: On tonight's rap sheet also, Martha Stewart decides to throw in the designer towel and go to prison early. And Kobe Bryant faces possible fallout, now that his candid interview with Police is out.

Joining me, as always, our former prosecutor Wendy Murphy and criminal defense attorney Jayne Weintraub.

WENDY MURPHY, FMR. PROSECUTOR: Hi, Carol.

LIN: Good evening, ladies.

MURPHY: Good to see you, Carol.

LIN: Good to see both of you, too. Let's start with Kobe Bryant, Wendy. How damaging is this transcript that was leaked to a Colorado newspaper?

It was pretty graphic. Kobe Bryant talking about trying to perhaps settle with this young woman after she became upset.

MURPHY: Sure, you know, you're right. I mean, not only did he offer a payoff, he lied to police. We now know for sure he started off by saying he hadn't had sex with her. It turned into, oops, we did have intercourse after they told him they had DNA evidence.

And I'll tell you, Carol, in a he said/she said, when he offers a payoff, and lies to police, the she wins. You know, she told a story that was corroborated.

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She wins. It's hard to dismiss. What do you mean...

LIN: Civil case.

MURPHY: She told a story that was corroborated by the physical evidence, the bruise on her chin, and the torn vagina.

LIN: I mean, we'll still talking about the impact on the civil case, that's still pending.

MURPHY: There's no civil case. Come on, look, the deal has been made. Let's be very grown up about it. It's not going anywhere. Two months from now, when no one's paying attention, that's going away with the wink and a nod.

The only thing this is going to do, and it should do to Kobe Bryant's career, is display him to be what he is. Not only a cad, not only a liar, but the kind of person who rapes women by bending them over chairs. WEINTRAUB: Wendy, Wendy, there's no evidence to support that in a criminal case. Number one, number two, the charges were dismissed. And number three, are you forgetting how this evening was leaked by the police?

MURPHY: Who cares?

WEINTRAUB: Because they -- I care.

MURPHY: It's the truth, it's the truth.

WEINTRAUB: They couldn't get a conviction. So they continued to defame and destroy the man? He's entitled to his good name back. The cops lied to Kobe Bryant. Is it unusual that a married man, when first confronted with did you have sex with a woman, would say no, I didn't.

MURPHY: And offer a payoff and lie...

WEINTRAUB: And as soon as they said well we know you did...

MURPHY: I don't think so.

WEINTRAUB: He calmly explained the consensual activity. She started kissing him...

MURPHY: Right.

WEINTRAUB: He said it from the beginning.

MURPHY: Look at...

WEINTRAUB: She initiated it, knocked on the door.

MURPHY: My favorite thing about this statement?

WEINTRAUB: Wanted it.

MURPHY: Keep telling yourself that, Jayne. Look...

WEINTRAUB: Not guilty.

MURPHY: ...my favorite statement, but officer, she bent herself over the chair. I suppose she also gave herself the bruise and the ripped vagina, too. Huh, Jayne?

WEINTRAUB: Wendy.

MURPHY: Bent herself over the chair. And that's...

WEINTRAUB: Wendy, they are two consenting adults.

MURPHY: And that just happens to be, by the way, what Bryant says he does with all this women, including oops, that other woman in Florida.

How is it that the victim just happened to bend herself over a chair, and oops, that's what he does to other women, too.

WEINTRAUB: Wendy, I don't think I should explain that to you on prime-time television.

LIN: But what's also important in the transcripts is that he did say that when she said no at a certain point, he stopped.

MURPHY: Yes, that was his lie.

WEINTRAUB: And he also said at the very beginning...

MURPHY: Because he (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and lied (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

WEINTRAUB: And she repeatedly...

MURPHY: And that's a lie, too.

LIN: Wendy, why do you -- on what basis do you think he had to lie about it? He was simply making a statement to police?

MURPHY: Let's -- oh, I don't know, Carol. How about people who are caught and they're in trouble and don't want to go to prison? Lie when they want to defend themselves.

And how many rapists say it was consensual when it wasn't? Oh, 99.9 percent of them.

WEINTRAUB: How about a married man who's having sex and committing adultery and doesn't want his wife to know, which is what he said. And Wendy, something he also maintains all along from the very beginning, she must want money.

And you know what? She does. And that way, this is all about...

MURPHY: And who's the bad guy? The one who offers the payout? Who's the bad guy, Jayne, the one who offers to pay off for silence or the one who takes it? Let me answer that.

Both of them are bad guys. Both of them.

LIN: All right. Let's talk about Martha Stewart. She says that she wants to put this nightmare behind her. She wants to start her prison sentence as soon as possible. Because frankly, one of the reasons that she gave, Jayne, was that she wanted to be out of prison in time in next March, by next March, to plant her spring garden.

WEINTRAUB: You know, Carol, it's much more than just planting a spring garden. It's about reclaiming her life. It's about getting on with her life.

You know, most appellate processes are about jail. In this case, it's about principal and fairness for Martha Stewart, because she will have already served her sentence.

She has not foregone -- you know, given up her appeal. She is maintaining her feeling, going forward with it on principal. She wants to restore her name. She's willing to go in, and give the time, the five month minimum sentence under the guidelines that the judge could give, which was a message also by the judge to Martha Stewart.

What does the public's message say back to Martha Stewart? Her stock went up 37 percent right after her sentence. What does that say. Let her get on with her life. Let her go do the few months. Let her come out. Hopefully by that time, her appeal will be granted. She will be able to restore her good name and get on with her life.

LIN: So the appeals were just absolution then?

MURPHY: Well, no. I mean, I think one of the things the appeal was going to do, because I think she's highly like to win, is showcase how grotesque this prosecution was. They'll be no bell ringing here because Jayne and I actually agree on this one. I think when wins, she's going to have not only her company's value and her good name back, she'll probably get a few extra sympathy points, which is what she deserves.

Hey, I buy her magazine and I haven't cooked anything but macaroni and cheese for five years. I don't even need the damn things, but I buy it as a form of protest. She never should have been prosecuted.

And I think this shows her to be, not the selfish, evil, horrible, human being, but the prosecution has said and the public has said about her for a long time, so she cares about more than just herself. She's willing to give up liberty for the well being of her employees. That's a good thing.

LIN: All right, thanks, Wendy. Thanks, Jayne. And Jayne, good to see that you weathered the hurricanes all right.

WEINTRAUB: Thank God we did.

LIN: You made it through.

WEINTRAUB: Thanks so much. Wendy, Jayne, always great to have you guys.

Still to come, having to support their families, even though they are barely old enough to walk and talk. We're going to take you to the back alley of a Baghdad street we're begging has become a profession.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: In the spotlight tonight, a side of Iraq rarely seen by the outside world. Also in Iraqi's main streets, thousands of people are destitute with no food, no money, only a squalid place to live.

And in exchange for living space, they must send their children into the street each day to beg.

CNN's Diana Muriel paid a visit to one boarding house in Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DIANA MURIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Down an anonymous back street in Baghdad's Catalia (ph) district is a boarding house that is home to a small army, a small army of beggars.

A series of one room hovels, 150 people crammed in together.

With just one communal tap and one latrine, the stench is overwhelming. There weren't many people around the day we visited. Most of the inhabitants out working.

Each day, a Dickensian Fagan figure, who runs this establishment, and several others like it. Collects the children and puts them to work, begging in the streets.

Each child must earn the equivalent of $3.50 a day. For that, they and their families get living space. But not all the children here are with their parents.

This woman, who was too frightened to give her name and age, says she and her husband found seven kids in the street. They bring in just enough for rent and food, she says. She has two sons of her own, but barely enough food to give them. She herself grew up in this compound after being picked up off the street. She found her husband here. The only man in the community with a legitimate job, he works at a sewage pipe laying company.

Once inside, there is almost no way out. The people here live in fear of the man who runs their lives. Only a few of the prettiest young girls can escape. This one too frightened to show her face to the camera has been sold to a man she has never met in Syria. She knows she's destined to be a prostitute. She's just happy to be leaving.

The oldest members of the community are perhaps the most pitiful. "We have nothing," wails this woman. Tears run down her husband's face, as he explains how he suffered a stroke and she was forced to go out into the streets to beg. She demonstrates her technique to the camera.

(on camera): This is one of the most profitable places to beg in Baghdad, outside the mosques. And it's here the beggars congregate. But even so, there are few pickings and little pity for some of the city's most desperate.

Diana Muriel, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: No, this is not the new Taurus. A rather sizable bull made a wrong turn somewhere, took out his road rage on the first red shirt wearing man who came to help, and then rejoined Saturday traffic on I- 20 westbound near Dallas.

The guy in the red shirt was not injured, by the way. Police and some helpful motorists managed to herd the errant animal off the highway. No word on whether he was ticketed or even got the chance to use his horn, or how he ended out there to begin with.

All right, he inspired a television catch phrase, "no soup for you!" But the real life businessman behind the minor character on the hit show "Seinfeld" is taking is brand beyond the Big Apple. And soon, you too could have soup.

Al Yeganeh, the owner of Soup Kitchen International joins us now, as well as his CEO, John Bello.

Good evening, gentlemen. Al, congratulations on this idea. You're franchising your soup operation?

AL YEGANEH, FRANCHISING HIS SOUP RESTAURANT: Yes, I am.

LIN: Why franchise?

YEGANEH: I didn't really like what you say, no soup for you, making fun of the whole program, I guess, Carol.

LIN: Oh. Oh, Al, I do want soup. And I do want to know how you got this idea?

YEGANEH: I'll give you favor to give interview. Now using that line, which is not recognized.

LIN: John, is soup man mad at me?

JOHN BELLO, CEO, SOUP KITCHEN INTL.: Carol, I think he is...

YEGANEH: I am mad, yes.

BELLO: Carol, it's really about the soup. And it's really not about "Seinfeld." So I think he'll be able to answer some questions about why we're doing this, why he's doing this now, and how we plan to share Al's soup with the whole world.

LIN: Well, Al, can you tell me why do you have difficulty with the "Seinfeld" connection?

YEGANEH: Because he's a clown. He used the "n" word, Nazi word, which is disgrace to human race. That's what I'm angry with him.

LIN: You really are, but you're famous because of him?

YEGANEH: No, he got fame to me. I made him famous, the whole New York -- everybody know this thing.

BELLO: Al was in business 10 to 15 years before the "Seinfeld" episode. And people stand around the block to get into his store, to pay $30 for a pint of soup. So for Al, it's really about the soup. And the reason I'm involved is the superior quality of the soup, and the opportunity that we all have to share his soup with the world.

LIN: And share it by selling these franchises, what, 1,000 -- you think 1,000 franchises in the next five to seven years?

BELLO: We've already gotten over 1,000 applications for franchises. And that's just as a result of one little sign in his shop here in New York.

We anticipate getting thousands more. And we're going to be very selective about who we, in fact, rent a franchise to.

LIN: Really? Because you know, if Al, people do bring "Seinfeld" up, I assume that you're not going to accept their application?

BELLO: We are strong discouraging any reference to the "Seinfeld" episode, because really, it's about the soup, right, Al?

LIN: OK.

YEGANEH: My product doesn't need that clown. My products speak for themselves.

LIN: All right.

YEGANEH: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) have been over quarter century.

LIN: Hey, Al, Zagat's actually, you know, the guidebook, actually ranks your soups higher than some of New York's best restaurants. What is it about your soups that make them so special, famous, and franchiseable?

YEGANEH: That is a proper question from wrong person. Why you don't ask (UNINTELLIGIBLE)? Why you don't ask the public? Why are you asking me this question?

LIN: Because you're the one who made the recipe.

YEGANEH: That's an indication. Lifetime -- more education and not cutting corner and years of earning the peoples' trust and having the most freshest ingredients in your soup. The passion, the love, yes, it is.

BELLO: Before Al, there was only soup. And after Al, because he's a pioneer, he's created the number one soup in the super premium category. And Zagat took it upon himself to dedicate a whole page to Al's soups. So I think that's testimony enough to the quality and demand for his product, which is again, why we see this as a business opportunity to take it to consumers around the world.

LIN: All right.

BELLO: Why just keep it in New York?

LIN: You bet. All right, well the Big Apple spreading fame and now fortune. John Bello, thank you very much. Al Yeganeh... BELLO: You're very welcome.

LIN: ...Soup Kitchen International. All right, well I guess no soup for me.

We leave you tonight with your responses to our last call question. Should the U.S. negotiate with hostage takers in Iraq to save American lives? And here are some of your answers. Have a great night.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CALLER: Yes, I do believe that they should negotiate. Every chance that we can get somebody out alive, we should do it.

CALLER: Unfortunately, if we negotiate, then there could be more hostages taken in the future and more demands. So absolutely no.

CALLER: We need not really to negotiate. We need them free whatever it takes.

CALLER: Absolutely not. It is a form of manipulation that this country cannot afford. Cannot negotiate with these crazy people and their insane demands.

CALLER: I think this government should start negotiating with everything, because this war is so wrong. And how many more people are going to be killed being taken hostage? The civilian person with a family at home, all the soldiers, their families at home. It's about time that, you know, like the killing stopped.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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