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CNN Live At Daybreak

The Undecideds; Review of Presidential Debate; Battle for Samarra

Aired October 01, 2004 - 06:28   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: They've killed 94 insurgents. Jane, I talked with an advisor to the Iraqi interior minister earlier this morning. He says that Iraqi forces and U.S. forces now have control of the city of Samarra. Is that what it looks like from your standpoint?
JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: From my standpoint, it's a very different scenario than the one that I have known, which is normally a bustling city, full of pilgrims from around the world. We have to remind our viewers that this is really quite an amazing place.

The shrine is home to the -- 2 of the 12 imams are buried there, and the 12th imam disappeared here, who, Shias believe, will come back, signaling a new -- signaling judgment day. This is a sacred place for Shia Muslims all over the world, and it's certainly (UNINTELLIGIBLE) with people.

Right now these streets are deserted. The only Iraqis we've seen are those who have been detained by U.S. forces and the Iraqi National Guardsmen and Special Forces, who are securing the mosque. Other than that, it is just U.S. soldiers and the deadly silence -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Jane, the advisor to the Iraqi interior minister also told me the people of Samarra reached out for help from the Iraqi Governing Council. Is that how it went down?

ARRAF: It's so hard to tell. It's a similar case to what we saw in Najaf, where townspeople really did appear to be held hostage by just a few hundred; in that case, militia loyal to Muqtada al-Sadr. In this case, the feeling is that these are former regime elements (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 25 to 35 foreign fighters. But they managed to really hold hostage this city of 200,000.

Certainly commerce has stopped. People were afraid. And according to what we've heard, people flooded out of this city, which is why we're seeing no one in the streets.

There will be those who have welcomed the American onslaught of this American operation to take back the city. There will be others as well, particularly those outside of Samarra, who believe that Americans should never be this close to a sacred shrine. But certainly this is a step to getting this city back to normal.

COSTELLO: You know, I'm looking at pictures of that beautiful shrine right now. Were the militants inside the shrine firing guns from inside out? ARRAF: They were, as we've seen in many places. And after the Special Forces went in, they killed two of them in and around the vicinity. In fact, just down the street there is a body of perhaps one of the suspected insurgents still lying on the ground.

They were firing from the rooftops. And as we walked here with the soldiers, they were going from street to street, clearing these streets. Gunfire kept erupting from beside the alleys. At one point, there were gunmen jumping from rooftop to rooftop, according to the U.S. military, firing at them. They were entrenched here. They (AUDIO GAP). This is not (AUDIO GAP)...

COSTELLO: OK, we're going to lose Jane Arraf. Jane Arraf, if you can still hear me, you stay safe in Samarra -- Samarra City, north of Baghdad. And Jane has reported at least 94 insurgents have been killed and at least one U.S. soldier has been wounded. She has no word of other U.S. casualties. U.S. forces fighting alongside Iraqi forces to take control of the city of Samarra from insurgents.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back with much more on DAYBREAK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This president has made, I regret to say, a colossal error of judgment.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The only thing consistent about my opponent's position is that he's been inconsistent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And ahead, in their first debate, the president and the senator spar. It is Friday, October 1. This is DAYBREAK.

And good morning to you from the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta. I'm Carol Costello with a special half-hour on the first presidential debate.

Let's check in again with that group of undecided voters who watched the presidential debate with CNN in Ohio. With some help from modern technology, we were able to follow people's reactions to what the candidates were saying as they spoke. In the last hour, we looked at remarks that struck a positive note.

Now, here's a look at some decidedly negative responses both men got when talking about their Iraq policies. A note: The yellow line represents women. The blue line you're going to see represents men.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: We would have had sanctions. We would have had the U.N. inspectors. Saddam Hussein would have been continually weakening, if the president had shown the patience to go through another round of resolution.

BUSH: The American people decided. I decided. The right action was in Iraq. My opponent calls it a mistake. It wasn't a mistake. He said I misled on Iraq. I don't think he was misleading when he called Iraq a grave threat and in the fall of 2002.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Oh, that's fascinating. You know, they work fast at Gallup, too. As the debate ended, people at Gallup got on the phone to see how America is reacting.

Frank Newport is editor-in-chief of the Gallup poll. He joins us live from Princeton, New Jersey, with some brand-new numbers.

Good morning, Frank.

FRANK NEWPORT, GALLUP POLL EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Good morning, Carol.

It's something we've been doing after debates for many years now. These are debate watchers, over 600 debates watchers, a random sample that we recruited earlier and called back last night.

Let's look at the numbers. No question about it, when you asked the basic question, who did the better job in the debate, Kerry wins. Fifty-three percent said it was Kerry, 37 percent said Bush.

This is very interesting of first debate reaction. Back in '92, Perot did the best job. In 2000, the same question, Gore did the first best job in the first debate. Now, it's Kerry last night. You can see the numbers.

Here's another positive for Kerry out of the debate. We asked debate watchers: As a result of the debate, did you end up with a more favorable or less favorable opinion of the two contenders? Now, for Bush, perhaps not surprisingly, he's the incumbent, didn't have much change either way: 21 more favorably, 17 less. I didn't show you here the big percent, 60-something said no change in Bush. He's well-known.

But look for Kerry: 46 percent said they ended up last night with a more favorable opinion, and that was one of the goals of John Kerry and his campaign, I think, was to establish himself, and it looks like he did it.

Carol, a couple of other points; however, we don't see fundamental changes in attitudes usually as a result of the debates. Here is some fascination for you. These are the people we had interviewed before the debate and asked them: Who could do the better job on Iraq, Bush or Iraq (sic)? This is before the debate. Bush wins. Last night after the debate, hardly any change; Bush is still ahead of Kerry.

So, for a fundamental attitude like this, no immediate change. But in terms of the debate itself, Kerry certainly came out on top.

One last point: We asked a lot of questions. But, Carol, I thought I would share this with you. This is probably why Kerry was seen as doing a better job: Which candidate expressed himself more clearly? Almost a 2 to 1 ratio, Kerry wins over Bush.

Bush equaled Kerry or beat him on some of the other dimensions we tested, but when it came to just being able to talk in a debate setting, maybe not shockingly, because this has never been one of Bush's great strengths, of course, is talking publicly. Kerry beat him by a 2 to 1 ratio.

COSTELLO: Interesting. Frank Newport live in Princeton, New Jersey, thank you.

The first presidential debate billed as covering foreign policy and national security was pretty much dominated by the subject of Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I don't see how you can lead this country to succeed in Iraq if you say wrong war, wrong time, wrong place. What message does that send to our troops?

KERRY: I made a mistake in how I talk about the war. But the president made a mistake in invading Iraq. Which is worse?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Having heard those comments, let's take a look at how each side rated last night's performance. Were the issues covered? Did George Bush smirk too much? Was John Kerry too tan? I know those last two things shouldn't matter, but let's not kid ourselves. They do, at least to some people; maybe more than some.

Joining us from the right, former chair of the Florida Republican Party, Al Cardenas. And from the left, Ron Zimmerman, co-chair of the New York Democratic Party. Both are in Miami.

Good morning.

Good morning, Carol.

AL CARDENAS, FORMER CHAIR FLORIDA GOP: Good morning.

COSTELLO: OK. So, we've been asking our viewers: Who did the better job? Overwhelmingly, they chose John Kerry.

Al, do you agree?

CARDENAS: Oh, I thought both candidates did well. In terms of style and substance, I thought there were differences. John Kerry did fairly well in style. But on substance, I think he left himself more vulnerable after the debate than before it. His rhetoric was incoherent and inconsistent. His positions on Iraq got even more muddied. And, frankly, after the debate...

RON ZIMMERMAN, KERRY NEW YORK CO-CHAIR: Well, fortunately...

CARDENAS: ... we all commented that he left himself more vulnerable for the next 30 days.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, that's because, Al, the reason that you all commented, that you all were talking to yourselves. Every national survey, including the CNN survey, showed that John Kerry showed the leadership and the strength of character in a plan to address our foreign policy...

CARDENAS: Absolutely not. The debate...

ZIMMERMAN: However, the problem, Al...

CARDENAS: ... showed the polling numbers...

ZIMMERMAN: Al, let me finish my point.

COSTELLO: Wait a second.

ZIMMERMAN: Let me finish my point, please, Al. The important point here is that in this debate, while John Kerry had plan to show leadership, George Bush could not explain not only the new direction we need to take because of his failed policies, he couldn't even recognize and wouldn't discuss the fact that a new direction was required.

CARDENAS: All right. Well, you've had your chance, Al.

COSTELLO: Hold on a second. Hold on a second.

CARDENAS: You've had your chance.

COSTELLO: Hold a second. Before we go on, we have a couple of sound bytes from the debate on this very subject. So, let's listen to comments about the war in Iraq from President Bush and then from Senator Kerry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: The only thing consistent about my opponent's position is that he's been inconsistent.

KERRY: Now, he misled the American people in a speech when he said we will plan carefully. They obviously didn't. He misled the American people when he said we'd go to war as a last resort. We did not go as a last resort.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Al, so weigh in. The president certainly stayed on message last night.

CARDENAS: Well, he sure did. And the Gallup poll that Al mentioned, the good thing about the Gallup poll, the key question was Iraq. Everybody held steady. The same 54 percent that said he'd do a better job in Iraq said so after the debate.

But John Kerry actually dropped 3 points. And he dropped 3 points because he's now very inconsistent. He said that...

ZIMMERMAN: You know, Al...

CARDENAS: ... we overspent money in Iraq -- let me finish, Al. We overspent money in Iraq, but now he says that he wants to spend more money in Iraq. He said it was the wrong war at the wrong time.

ZIMMERMAN: No, you're misleading the record, Al.

CARDENAS: And now he's saying that he wants to go there.

ZIMMERMAN: And let's be honest about the issues here.

COSTELLO: OK, OK, one at a time.

ZIMMERMAN: OK.

CARDENAS: And so, the bottom line is...

ZIMMERMAN: First of all, Al...

CARDENAS: ... he's more inconsistent now than he was before.

ZIMMERMAN: First of all, Al, it's important to restate the facts.

COSTELLO: OK, go on, Ron.

ZIMMERMAN: First of all, it's important, Al, to be honest about the record and state the facts accurately. What John Kerry was saying is he will follow through and finish the job in Iraq. But since we're moving -- we have to keep our mission and keep the direction. We just need to change directors, because the reality is this president has put American soldiers in harm's way over a war that he rushed to judgment to. And most tragically, it's taken us away from the real objective, which is fighting al Qaeda. And what's critical here is that the American people...

CARDENAS: John Kerry shows that he was a politician, not a statesman...

ZIMMERMAN: Oh, Al...

CARDENAS: ... when he criticized the prime minister from Iraq, who just came here last week.

ZIMMERMAN: No, he quoted the prime minister accurately...

CARDENAS: He criticized our allies, and that is no...

COSTELLO: OK, hold on. Hold on for just a second. CARDENAS: That is no way for a commander-in-chief to react.

COSTELLO: Let's move on to another...

ZIMMERMAN: Let me just -- let me just make...

COSTELLO: No, no, let's move on to another...

ZIMMERMAN: If I could make -- OK.

COSTELLO: No, let's move on to another topic now.

ZIMMERMAN: OK.

COSTELLO: Because I want to get as many sound bytes in for our viewers as I can.

The two candidates also talked about North Korea. Let's listen to what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: For two years, this administration didn't talk at all to North Korea. While they didn't talk at all, the fuel rods came out. The inspectors were kicked out. The television cameras were kicked out. And today, there are four to seven nuclear weapons in the hands of North Korea. That happened on this president's watch. Now, that, I think, is one of the most serious sort of reversals or mixed messages that you could possibly send.

BUSH: I can't tell you how big of a mistake I think that is to have bilateral talks with North Korea. It's precisely what Kim Jong- Il wants. It will cause the six-party talks to evaporate. It would mean that China no longer is involved in convincing, along with us, for Kim Jong-Il to get rid of his weapons. It's a big mistake to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Two very different viewpoints. So, Ron, take it away.

ZIMMERMAN: OK. Let me point out, Carol, that it's not just Senator Kerry who has raised these issues about our failed policy involving nuclear proliferation. But Charles Pritchard (ph), the Bush administration's key point person on North Korea, pointed out the administration had no coherent policy to address North Korea.

And likewise, Senator Kerry also pointed out that less -- nuclear materials that are in the former Soviet Union are less secure today than they were before 9/11. That means terrorists have greater access to them.

And I would highlight the fact that the Bush administration has failed to make America safer and has failed to lead as effectively in the war on terror.

COSTELLO: Al -- Al, weigh in.

CARDENAS: Carol, if I may...

ZIMMERMAN: And I think the American people...

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Go ahead, Al.

CARDENAS: Carol, if I may. When President Bush took over, President Clinton had a disastrous bilateral agreement with North Korea that caused the current situation.

What we did is we went to China, went to Germany, went to France and came up with a five-country coalition that finally can put the right pressure on North Korea. John Kerry wants to do away with that, wants to go back to the failed policies of the past. And we believe that China is a central piece here to bring North Korea to where it needs to be, and that is to begin withdrawing its nuclear proliferation capabilities.

COSTELLO: Well...

(CROSSTALK)

CARDENAS: And so, we are right on point, and most of the world thinks we're right on point.

COSTELLO: And that has to be the last word. But I'm sorry, that has to be the last word. Al Cardenas and Ron Zimmerman joining us, both from Miami. Thank you so much for being with DAYBREAK.

ZIMMERMAN: Thank you. It's good to be with you.

CARDENAS: Thanks.

COSTELLO: A look at overseas trading just ahead. And later, some of the lighter moments of the first presidential debate of this election year.

But first, here's a look at what else is making news this Friday morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Overseas, Japan's Nikkei finished up 161 points, Britain's FTSE is up 33, France's CAC is up 23.

Your news, money, weather and sports. It is 6:46 Eastern. Here's what's all new this morning.

American and Iraqi forces swept into the Iraqi city of Samarra this morning. They're battling insurgents in an effort to retake control of that city. Ninety-four Iraqis have been killed since the offensive began more than 14 hours ago. The House has decisively rejected a constitutional amendment that would ban same-sex marriage. Democrats say the vote was pushed by conservatives only to get a record of lawmakers' positions on the volatile issue. The Senate has already rejected that measure.

In money news, trouble for Fannie Mae, the government-sponsored company that finances most of the nation's home mortgages. The Justice Department says it's conducting a criminal investigation into Fannie Mae's accounting procedures.

In culture, Sponge Bob meet Avril. Pop singer Avril Lavigne will lend her voice to the Sponge Bob Squarepants theme song for the cartoon character's upcoming full-length feature. The movie will also feature songs by Motorhead and the Flaming Lips. Parents, if you don't understand, ask your children.

In sports, Cincinnati Reds outfielder Adam Dunn broke a dubious record. Dunn struck out three more times to break Bobby Bonds' all- time record for single season strikeouts: Bonds with 189 times in 1970; Dunn has 191. But somehow, I think Barry Bonds has a more secure job situation, Rob.

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: He did, as does Barry.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: Those are the latest headlines for you.

Still to come on DAYBREAK, colorful debate moments. Yes, there were some. But first, here is what you're saying about Bush and Kerry's performance.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right, let's talk about those debate rules now. We all heard about how stringent the rules would be. And we made a bet with our political analyst, Ron Brownstein, about who would break them first.

So, let's head live to Miami.

Good morning -- Ron.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Carol, good morning.

COSTELLO: So, who broke the rules first?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, I thought that actually within the rules, as I suspected, they were able to have much more of a debate than many critics expected. I didn't really feel that either of them broke the rules.

I thought that overall, as I say, they were able to engage and really define some clear differences, both specifically narrowly on what to do next in Iraq and so forth, but more broadly in a sort of general way of looking at the world. I think people got a clear sense that these are two men who have very different visions of how America pursues its goals in the world, and also very different visions of how a president should pursue their goals.

COSTELLO: You know, it was kind of surreal, though, how they talked to one another without looking at each other.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, that was.

COSTELLO: It sort of reminded me of Bob Dole when he referred to himself as Bob Dole.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Well, you know, it's better than the royal we, I suppose. The disassociated third party is probably superior to the royal we.

You know, in terms of the argument, I actually thought the debate was closer than the polls did. You know, pretty universally in the polls people thought John Kerry won the debate. I thought in terms of argument they each had contrasting strengths.

But in terms of demeanor and what we saw in their reaction to each other to the extent we did, I thought John Kerry -- I think most people thought John Kerry was better than George Bush in some of the behavior that hurt Al Gore against Bush in 2000. He sighed at one point in kind of exasperation. He looked frustrated and a little peevish at Kerry's relentless kind of prosecutorial approach.

Look, you're the incumbent. It's inevitable your record is going to be the focus. The question politically, I think, moving forward is: Can Kerry keep the focus of the presidential campaign on the aspects of the Bush record that people are uneasy about? For the last several weeks, as you know, we've been focusing more on the aspects of Kerry's personality and leadership style that people are uneasy about.

COSTELLO: Yes, but, you know, I just wonder, although you say the candidates really differed on Iraq, on that issue, did Kerry really present a definite plan to get the U.S. troops out?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, the answer is no. I mean, and what he said was there is no -- you know, there are no guarantees. In fact, he specifically said that he said that it would be his goal -- what he said on Iraq, you can make it clear in a debate, was that he would continue.

And this really has been the one consistent note from him for foreign policy really from day one of his campaign that he would make greater efforts to cede more authority and actual reconstruction contracts and other inducements to try to bring more nations in. He acknowledges that would be difficult.

He also acknowledged, as I said, that he could not guarantee that he would begin to move troops out, but he said he would try to move in that direction. It was interesting. The president was unwavering in his insistence that the president has to be unwavering. I mean, that was his central argument on foreign policy. You can't change direction. You can't send mixed signals. I think to some extent that was an effective argument; obviously one of Kerry's greatest weaknesses and people think he's a flip-flopper.

COSTELLO: Yes, it was an effective argument...

BROWNSTEIN: Right.

COSTELLO: ... unless people think you're wrong.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, exactly right. And that is always the risk of this strategy for President Bush. John Kerry said at one point, you know, when what he's promising you is four more years of the same.

And at a time when polls show the country is divided about exactly in half on whether it was the right thing to go into Iraq and whether his policies have helped the economy. That isn't necessarily an unmitigated good, I agree with you. That is the...

COSTELLO: Interesting.

BROWNSTEIN: That is the issue.

COSTELLO: All right, Ron Brownstein, interesting insights as usual, joining DAYBREAK this morning.

Today's mug winner will be announced in two minutes. But first, more of what you had to say about last night's debate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: You know, we love our friends at "AMERICAN MORNING."

MARCIANO: Of course.

COSTELLO: We do!

MARCIANO: Yes.

COSTELLO: But finally, you know, we don't have a DAYBREAK coffee quiz this morning, but our regular challenge to our viewers is apparently piqued the ire of our friend on "AMERICAN MORNING," Jack Cafferty.

MARCIANO: Whom we love.

COSTELLO: We love you, Jack. But this is what you had to say earlier this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I will be sending you something in the mail for that. HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: A coffee mug.

CAFFERTY: Yes, one of those cheesy cheap coffee cups they give away on that show that precedes us. They cost about 8 cents apiece, and people line up to, "Would you send me a cup?" I mean, it's a piece of garbage. I digress.

But the one they give away on that DAYBREAK, I mean, you could get these. You go to the gas station and buy a quart of oil they'll give you a case of 50 of these cups. That's how cheesy they are.

(CROSSTALK)

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Don't sell yourself so short now, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Huh?

HEMMER: Come on, these things are on eBay all the time.

CAFFERTY: What things are on eBay?

HEMMER: And they've got your DNA all over them.

CAFFERTY: What things are on eBay?

HEMMER: These coffee cups.

CAFFERTY: Not mine.

HEMMER: No.

CAFFERTY: They don't have my DNA on them, because I don't use them.

COLLINS: You sound guilty for some reason about something.

CAFFERTY: I mean, they run this big contest on DAYBREAK, and the prize is, like, a 3-cent cup.

COLLINS: Yes. Yes.

CAFFERTY: I mean, it's just...

HEMMER: Clearly, you're having fun.

CAFFERTY: It's embarrassing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: We heard all of that, Rob. And we laughed. And, of course, that prompted some of our loyal DAYBREAK viewers to weigh in.

Fred writes: "Hey, Cafferty, who, what is in your coffee? Carol, I think the real problem is that deep down inside, Jack wants one for himself. Tell you what, sooner or later I will win an awesome DAYBREAK mug. Take my mug and send it to Jack, because if Jack's not happy, ain't nobody happy."

MARCIANO: Yes, that's right.

COSTELLO: So, Fred, e-mail us back. We'll get you one of those awesome DAYBREAK mugs.

And, Jack, we have this one for you.

MARCIANO: That's a 3-cent mug.

COSTELLO: It's a 3-cent mug. But we love you, Jack.

"AMERICAN MORNING" starts right now. Oh, here it is.

MARCIANO: There it is.

COSTELLO: Well, that was an interesting shot, Mr. Director!

MARCIANO: We'll see what Jack has to say about that!

COSTELLO: We'll see you on Monday.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.


Aired October 1, 2004 - 06:28   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: They've killed 94 insurgents. Jane, I talked with an advisor to the Iraqi interior minister earlier this morning. He says that Iraqi forces and U.S. forces now have control of the city of Samarra. Is that what it looks like from your standpoint?
JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: From my standpoint, it's a very different scenario than the one that I have known, which is normally a bustling city, full of pilgrims from around the world. We have to remind our viewers that this is really quite an amazing place.

The shrine is home to the -- 2 of the 12 imams are buried there, and the 12th imam disappeared here, who, Shias believe, will come back, signaling a new -- signaling judgment day. This is a sacred place for Shia Muslims all over the world, and it's certainly (UNINTELLIGIBLE) with people.

Right now these streets are deserted. The only Iraqis we've seen are those who have been detained by U.S. forces and the Iraqi National Guardsmen and Special Forces, who are securing the mosque. Other than that, it is just U.S. soldiers and the deadly silence -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Jane, the advisor to the Iraqi interior minister also told me the people of Samarra reached out for help from the Iraqi Governing Council. Is that how it went down?

ARRAF: It's so hard to tell. It's a similar case to what we saw in Najaf, where townspeople really did appear to be held hostage by just a few hundred; in that case, militia loyal to Muqtada al-Sadr. In this case, the feeling is that these are former regime elements (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 25 to 35 foreign fighters. But they managed to really hold hostage this city of 200,000.

Certainly commerce has stopped. People were afraid. And according to what we've heard, people flooded out of this city, which is why we're seeing no one in the streets.

There will be those who have welcomed the American onslaught of this American operation to take back the city. There will be others as well, particularly those outside of Samarra, who believe that Americans should never be this close to a sacred shrine. But certainly this is a step to getting this city back to normal.

COSTELLO: You know, I'm looking at pictures of that beautiful shrine right now. Were the militants inside the shrine firing guns from inside out? ARRAF: They were, as we've seen in many places. And after the Special Forces went in, they killed two of them in and around the vicinity. In fact, just down the street there is a body of perhaps one of the suspected insurgents still lying on the ground.

They were firing from the rooftops. And as we walked here with the soldiers, they were going from street to street, clearing these streets. Gunfire kept erupting from beside the alleys. At one point, there were gunmen jumping from rooftop to rooftop, according to the U.S. military, firing at them. They were entrenched here. They (AUDIO GAP). This is not (AUDIO GAP)...

COSTELLO: OK, we're going to lose Jane Arraf. Jane Arraf, if you can still hear me, you stay safe in Samarra -- Samarra City, north of Baghdad. And Jane has reported at least 94 insurgents have been killed and at least one U.S. soldier has been wounded. She has no word of other U.S. casualties. U.S. forces fighting alongside Iraqi forces to take control of the city of Samarra from insurgents.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back with much more on DAYBREAK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This president has made, I regret to say, a colossal error of judgment.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The only thing consistent about my opponent's position is that he's been inconsistent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And ahead, in their first debate, the president and the senator spar. It is Friday, October 1. This is DAYBREAK.

And good morning to you from the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta. I'm Carol Costello with a special half-hour on the first presidential debate.

Let's check in again with that group of undecided voters who watched the presidential debate with CNN in Ohio. With some help from modern technology, we were able to follow people's reactions to what the candidates were saying as they spoke. In the last hour, we looked at remarks that struck a positive note.

Now, here's a look at some decidedly negative responses both men got when talking about their Iraq policies. A note: The yellow line represents women. The blue line you're going to see represents men.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: We would have had sanctions. We would have had the U.N. inspectors. Saddam Hussein would have been continually weakening, if the president had shown the patience to go through another round of resolution.

BUSH: The American people decided. I decided. The right action was in Iraq. My opponent calls it a mistake. It wasn't a mistake. He said I misled on Iraq. I don't think he was misleading when he called Iraq a grave threat and in the fall of 2002.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Oh, that's fascinating. You know, they work fast at Gallup, too. As the debate ended, people at Gallup got on the phone to see how America is reacting.

Frank Newport is editor-in-chief of the Gallup poll. He joins us live from Princeton, New Jersey, with some brand-new numbers.

Good morning, Frank.

FRANK NEWPORT, GALLUP POLL EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Good morning, Carol.

It's something we've been doing after debates for many years now. These are debate watchers, over 600 debates watchers, a random sample that we recruited earlier and called back last night.

Let's look at the numbers. No question about it, when you asked the basic question, who did the better job in the debate, Kerry wins. Fifty-three percent said it was Kerry, 37 percent said Bush.

This is very interesting of first debate reaction. Back in '92, Perot did the best job. In 2000, the same question, Gore did the first best job in the first debate. Now, it's Kerry last night. You can see the numbers.

Here's another positive for Kerry out of the debate. We asked debate watchers: As a result of the debate, did you end up with a more favorable or less favorable opinion of the two contenders? Now, for Bush, perhaps not surprisingly, he's the incumbent, didn't have much change either way: 21 more favorably, 17 less. I didn't show you here the big percent, 60-something said no change in Bush. He's well-known.

But look for Kerry: 46 percent said they ended up last night with a more favorable opinion, and that was one of the goals of John Kerry and his campaign, I think, was to establish himself, and it looks like he did it.

Carol, a couple of other points; however, we don't see fundamental changes in attitudes usually as a result of the debates. Here is some fascination for you. These are the people we had interviewed before the debate and asked them: Who could do the better job on Iraq, Bush or Iraq (sic)? This is before the debate. Bush wins. Last night after the debate, hardly any change; Bush is still ahead of Kerry.

So, for a fundamental attitude like this, no immediate change. But in terms of the debate itself, Kerry certainly came out on top.

One last point: We asked a lot of questions. But, Carol, I thought I would share this with you. This is probably why Kerry was seen as doing a better job: Which candidate expressed himself more clearly? Almost a 2 to 1 ratio, Kerry wins over Bush.

Bush equaled Kerry or beat him on some of the other dimensions we tested, but when it came to just being able to talk in a debate setting, maybe not shockingly, because this has never been one of Bush's great strengths, of course, is talking publicly. Kerry beat him by a 2 to 1 ratio.

COSTELLO: Interesting. Frank Newport live in Princeton, New Jersey, thank you.

The first presidential debate billed as covering foreign policy and national security was pretty much dominated by the subject of Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I don't see how you can lead this country to succeed in Iraq if you say wrong war, wrong time, wrong place. What message does that send to our troops?

KERRY: I made a mistake in how I talk about the war. But the president made a mistake in invading Iraq. Which is worse?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Having heard those comments, let's take a look at how each side rated last night's performance. Were the issues covered? Did George Bush smirk too much? Was John Kerry too tan? I know those last two things shouldn't matter, but let's not kid ourselves. They do, at least to some people; maybe more than some.

Joining us from the right, former chair of the Florida Republican Party, Al Cardenas. And from the left, Ron Zimmerman, co-chair of the New York Democratic Party. Both are in Miami.

Good morning.

Good morning, Carol.

AL CARDENAS, FORMER CHAIR FLORIDA GOP: Good morning.

COSTELLO: OK. So, we've been asking our viewers: Who did the better job? Overwhelmingly, they chose John Kerry.

Al, do you agree?

CARDENAS: Oh, I thought both candidates did well. In terms of style and substance, I thought there were differences. John Kerry did fairly well in style. But on substance, I think he left himself more vulnerable after the debate than before it. His rhetoric was incoherent and inconsistent. His positions on Iraq got even more muddied. And, frankly, after the debate...

RON ZIMMERMAN, KERRY NEW YORK CO-CHAIR: Well, fortunately...

CARDENAS: ... we all commented that he left himself more vulnerable for the next 30 days.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, that's because, Al, the reason that you all commented, that you all were talking to yourselves. Every national survey, including the CNN survey, showed that John Kerry showed the leadership and the strength of character in a plan to address our foreign policy...

CARDENAS: Absolutely not. The debate...

ZIMMERMAN: However, the problem, Al...

CARDENAS: ... showed the polling numbers...

ZIMMERMAN: Al, let me finish my point.

COSTELLO: Wait a second.

ZIMMERMAN: Let me finish my point, please, Al. The important point here is that in this debate, while John Kerry had plan to show leadership, George Bush could not explain not only the new direction we need to take because of his failed policies, he couldn't even recognize and wouldn't discuss the fact that a new direction was required.

CARDENAS: All right. Well, you've had your chance, Al.

COSTELLO: Hold on a second. Hold on a second.

CARDENAS: You've had your chance.

COSTELLO: Hold a second. Before we go on, we have a couple of sound bytes from the debate on this very subject. So, let's listen to comments about the war in Iraq from President Bush and then from Senator Kerry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: The only thing consistent about my opponent's position is that he's been inconsistent.

KERRY: Now, he misled the American people in a speech when he said we will plan carefully. They obviously didn't. He misled the American people when he said we'd go to war as a last resort. We did not go as a last resort.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Al, so weigh in. The president certainly stayed on message last night.

CARDENAS: Well, he sure did. And the Gallup poll that Al mentioned, the good thing about the Gallup poll, the key question was Iraq. Everybody held steady. The same 54 percent that said he'd do a better job in Iraq said so after the debate.

But John Kerry actually dropped 3 points. And he dropped 3 points because he's now very inconsistent. He said that...

ZIMMERMAN: You know, Al...

CARDENAS: ... we overspent money in Iraq -- let me finish, Al. We overspent money in Iraq, but now he says that he wants to spend more money in Iraq. He said it was the wrong war at the wrong time.

ZIMMERMAN: No, you're misleading the record, Al.

CARDENAS: And now he's saying that he wants to go there.

ZIMMERMAN: And let's be honest about the issues here.

COSTELLO: OK, OK, one at a time.

ZIMMERMAN: OK.

CARDENAS: And so, the bottom line is...

ZIMMERMAN: First of all, Al...

CARDENAS: ... he's more inconsistent now than he was before.

ZIMMERMAN: First of all, Al, it's important to restate the facts.

COSTELLO: OK, go on, Ron.

ZIMMERMAN: First of all, it's important, Al, to be honest about the record and state the facts accurately. What John Kerry was saying is he will follow through and finish the job in Iraq. But since we're moving -- we have to keep our mission and keep the direction. We just need to change directors, because the reality is this president has put American soldiers in harm's way over a war that he rushed to judgment to. And most tragically, it's taken us away from the real objective, which is fighting al Qaeda. And what's critical here is that the American people...

CARDENAS: John Kerry shows that he was a politician, not a statesman...

ZIMMERMAN: Oh, Al...

CARDENAS: ... when he criticized the prime minister from Iraq, who just came here last week.

ZIMMERMAN: No, he quoted the prime minister accurately...

CARDENAS: He criticized our allies, and that is no...

COSTELLO: OK, hold on. Hold on for just a second. CARDENAS: That is no way for a commander-in-chief to react.

COSTELLO: Let's move on to another...

ZIMMERMAN: Let me just -- let me just make...

COSTELLO: No, no, let's move on to another...

ZIMMERMAN: If I could make -- OK.

COSTELLO: No, let's move on to another topic now.

ZIMMERMAN: OK.

COSTELLO: Because I want to get as many sound bytes in for our viewers as I can.

The two candidates also talked about North Korea. Let's listen to what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: For two years, this administration didn't talk at all to North Korea. While they didn't talk at all, the fuel rods came out. The inspectors were kicked out. The television cameras were kicked out. And today, there are four to seven nuclear weapons in the hands of North Korea. That happened on this president's watch. Now, that, I think, is one of the most serious sort of reversals or mixed messages that you could possibly send.

BUSH: I can't tell you how big of a mistake I think that is to have bilateral talks with North Korea. It's precisely what Kim Jong- Il wants. It will cause the six-party talks to evaporate. It would mean that China no longer is involved in convincing, along with us, for Kim Jong-Il to get rid of his weapons. It's a big mistake to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Two very different viewpoints. So, Ron, take it away.

ZIMMERMAN: OK. Let me point out, Carol, that it's not just Senator Kerry who has raised these issues about our failed policy involving nuclear proliferation. But Charles Pritchard (ph), the Bush administration's key point person on North Korea, pointed out the administration had no coherent policy to address North Korea.

And likewise, Senator Kerry also pointed out that less -- nuclear materials that are in the former Soviet Union are less secure today than they were before 9/11. That means terrorists have greater access to them.

And I would highlight the fact that the Bush administration has failed to make America safer and has failed to lead as effectively in the war on terror.

COSTELLO: Al -- Al, weigh in.

CARDENAS: Carol, if I may...

ZIMMERMAN: And I think the American people...

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Go ahead, Al.

CARDENAS: Carol, if I may. When President Bush took over, President Clinton had a disastrous bilateral agreement with North Korea that caused the current situation.

What we did is we went to China, went to Germany, went to France and came up with a five-country coalition that finally can put the right pressure on North Korea. John Kerry wants to do away with that, wants to go back to the failed policies of the past. And we believe that China is a central piece here to bring North Korea to where it needs to be, and that is to begin withdrawing its nuclear proliferation capabilities.

COSTELLO: Well...

(CROSSTALK)

CARDENAS: And so, we are right on point, and most of the world thinks we're right on point.

COSTELLO: And that has to be the last word. But I'm sorry, that has to be the last word. Al Cardenas and Ron Zimmerman joining us, both from Miami. Thank you so much for being with DAYBREAK.

ZIMMERMAN: Thank you. It's good to be with you.

CARDENAS: Thanks.

COSTELLO: A look at overseas trading just ahead. And later, some of the lighter moments of the first presidential debate of this election year.

But first, here's a look at what else is making news this Friday morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Overseas, Japan's Nikkei finished up 161 points, Britain's FTSE is up 33, France's CAC is up 23.

Your news, money, weather and sports. It is 6:46 Eastern. Here's what's all new this morning.

American and Iraqi forces swept into the Iraqi city of Samarra this morning. They're battling insurgents in an effort to retake control of that city. Ninety-four Iraqis have been killed since the offensive began more than 14 hours ago. The House has decisively rejected a constitutional amendment that would ban same-sex marriage. Democrats say the vote was pushed by conservatives only to get a record of lawmakers' positions on the volatile issue. The Senate has already rejected that measure.

In money news, trouble for Fannie Mae, the government-sponsored company that finances most of the nation's home mortgages. The Justice Department says it's conducting a criminal investigation into Fannie Mae's accounting procedures.

In culture, Sponge Bob meet Avril. Pop singer Avril Lavigne will lend her voice to the Sponge Bob Squarepants theme song for the cartoon character's upcoming full-length feature. The movie will also feature songs by Motorhead and the Flaming Lips. Parents, if you don't understand, ask your children.

In sports, Cincinnati Reds outfielder Adam Dunn broke a dubious record. Dunn struck out three more times to break Bobby Bonds' all- time record for single season strikeouts: Bonds with 189 times in 1970; Dunn has 191. But somehow, I think Barry Bonds has a more secure job situation, Rob.

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: He did, as does Barry.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: Those are the latest headlines for you.

Still to come on DAYBREAK, colorful debate moments. Yes, there were some. But first, here is what you're saying about Bush and Kerry's performance.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right, let's talk about those debate rules now. We all heard about how stringent the rules would be. And we made a bet with our political analyst, Ron Brownstein, about who would break them first.

So, let's head live to Miami.

Good morning -- Ron.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Carol, good morning.

COSTELLO: So, who broke the rules first?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, I thought that actually within the rules, as I suspected, they were able to have much more of a debate than many critics expected. I didn't really feel that either of them broke the rules.

I thought that overall, as I say, they were able to engage and really define some clear differences, both specifically narrowly on what to do next in Iraq and so forth, but more broadly in a sort of general way of looking at the world. I think people got a clear sense that these are two men who have very different visions of how America pursues its goals in the world, and also very different visions of how a president should pursue their goals.

COSTELLO: You know, it was kind of surreal, though, how they talked to one another without looking at each other.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, that was.

COSTELLO: It sort of reminded me of Bob Dole when he referred to himself as Bob Dole.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Well, you know, it's better than the royal we, I suppose. The disassociated third party is probably superior to the royal we.

You know, in terms of the argument, I actually thought the debate was closer than the polls did. You know, pretty universally in the polls people thought John Kerry won the debate. I thought in terms of argument they each had contrasting strengths.

But in terms of demeanor and what we saw in their reaction to each other to the extent we did, I thought John Kerry -- I think most people thought John Kerry was better than George Bush in some of the behavior that hurt Al Gore against Bush in 2000. He sighed at one point in kind of exasperation. He looked frustrated and a little peevish at Kerry's relentless kind of prosecutorial approach.

Look, you're the incumbent. It's inevitable your record is going to be the focus. The question politically, I think, moving forward is: Can Kerry keep the focus of the presidential campaign on the aspects of the Bush record that people are uneasy about? For the last several weeks, as you know, we've been focusing more on the aspects of Kerry's personality and leadership style that people are uneasy about.

COSTELLO: Yes, but, you know, I just wonder, although you say the candidates really differed on Iraq, on that issue, did Kerry really present a definite plan to get the U.S. troops out?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, the answer is no. I mean, and what he said was there is no -- you know, there are no guarantees. In fact, he specifically said that he said that it would be his goal -- what he said on Iraq, you can make it clear in a debate, was that he would continue.

And this really has been the one consistent note from him for foreign policy really from day one of his campaign that he would make greater efforts to cede more authority and actual reconstruction contracts and other inducements to try to bring more nations in. He acknowledges that would be difficult.

He also acknowledged, as I said, that he could not guarantee that he would begin to move troops out, but he said he would try to move in that direction. It was interesting. The president was unwavering in his insistence that the president has to be unwavering. I mean, that was his central argument on foreign policy. You can't change direction. You can't send mixed signals. I think to some extent that was an effective argument; obviously one of Kerry's greatest weaknesses and people think he's a flip-flopper.

COSTELLO: Yes, it was an effective argument...

BROWNSTEIN: Right.

COSTELLO: ... unless people think you're wrong.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, exactly right. And that is always the risk of this strategy for President Bush. John Kerry said at one point, you know, when what he's promising you is four more years of the same.

And at a time when polls show the country is divided about exactly in half on whether it was the right thing to go into Iraq and whether his policies have helped the economy. That isn't necessarily an unmitigated good, I agree with you. That is the...

COSTELLO: Interesting.

BROWNSTEIN: That is the issue.

COSTELLO: All right, Ron Brownstein, interesting insights as usual, joining DAYBREAK this morning.

Today's mug winner will be announced in two minutes. But first, more of what you had to say about last night's debate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: You know, we love our friends at "AMERICAN MORNING."

MARCIANO: Of course.

COSTELLO: We do!

MARCIANO: Yes.

COSTELLO: But finally, you know, we don't have a DAYBREAK coffee quiz this morning, but our regular challenge to our viewers is apparently piqued the ire of our friend on "AMERICAN MORNING," Jack Cafferty.

MARCIANO: Whom we love.

COSTELLO: We love you, Jack. But this is what you had to say earlier this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I will be sending you something in the mail for that. HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: A coffee mug.

CAFFERTY: Yes, one of those cheesy cheap coffee cups they give away on that show that precedes us. They cost about 8 cents apiece, and people line up to, "Would you send me a cup?" I mean, it's a piece of garbage. I digress.

But the one they give away on that DAYBREAK, I mean, you could get these. You go to the gas station and buy a quart of oil they'll give you a case of 50 of these cups. That's how cheesy they are.

(CROSSTALK)

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Don't sell yourself so short now, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Huh?

HEMMER: Come on, these things are on eBay all the time.

CAFFERTY: What things are on eBay?

HEMMER: And they've got your DNA all over them.

CAFFERTY: What things are on eBay?

HEMMER: These coffee cups.

CAFFERTY: Not mine.

HEMMER: No.

CAFFERTY: They don't have my DNA on them, because I don't use them.

COLLINS: You sound guilty for some reason about something.

CAFFERTY: I mean, they run this big contest on DAYBREAK, and the prize is, like, a 3-cent cup.

COLLINS: Yes. Yes.

CAFFERTY: I mean, it's just...

HEMMER: Clearly, you're having fun.

CAFFERTY: It's embarrassing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: We heard all of that, Rob. And we laughed. And, of course, that prompted some of our loyal DAYBREAK viewers to weigh in.

Fred writes: "Hey, Cafferty, who, what is in your coffee? Carol, I think the real problem is that deep down inside, Jack wants one for himself. Tell you what, sooner or later I will win an awesome DAYBREAK mug. Take my mug and send it to Jack, because if Jack's not happy, ain't nobody happy."

MARCIANO: Yes, that's right.

COSTELLO: So, Fred, e-mail us back. We'll get you one of those awesome DAYBREAK mugs.

And, Jack, we have this one for you.

MARCIANO: That's a 3-cent mug.

COSTELLO: It's a 3-cent mug. But we love you, Jack.

"AMERICAN MORNING" starts right now. Oh, here it is.

MARCIANO: There it is.

COSTELLO: Well, that was an interesting shot, Mr. Director!

MARCIANO: We'll see what Jack has to say about that!

COSTELLO: We'll see you on Monday.

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