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Interview With John Walsh

Aired October 1, 2004 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, John Walsh of "America's Most Wanted." He turned his own devastating personal tragedy into a powerful force for good. His take on the news that Salt Lake City police today found the remains of missing woman Lori Hacking in the landfill where her husband said he disposed of her. That and more with the one and only John Walsh here for the hour, we'll include your phone calls, next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Welcome to another edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Always a great pleasure to welcome John Walsh, the host of "America's Most Wanted."

We know the story, his young son, Adam, kidnapped and murdered in the summer of 1981. We were talking just before, if Adam had lived, he'd be 30 years old.

Let's get right to it, John. A lot of things to get into. The Hacking murder case.

JOHN WALSH, AMERICA'S MOST WANTED: Well, I'm glad they found the body. I mean, I think the not knowing is the worst. It will help police prepare the case for Mark Hacking. And this family will get justice. But at least they have the remains now to put the rest somewhere that they can go and pray for this beautiful woman.

KING: What does that make you feel to find it?

WALSH: The not knowing is what kills people. I have known parents for the last 20 some years who have no idea what happened to their daughters, their sons -- as people realize, this is someone's daughter. It doesn't matter how old you are. The not knowing is what kills you.

When they find the body, when they find the remains, you're able to end that chapter of your life, you're able to grieve for that person. You'll always be the parent of a murdered child, just like this beautiful woman's family will be, but they can start looking for justice in the trial. But the not knowing is what kills you.

KING: What do you make of a case like this when you hear about someone who appears normal.

WALSH: We hear about it all the time. I mean, everybody thinks Scott Peterson not too bad of a husband. I mean, all these type of things. I still don't get it.

I always say, what's wrong with divorce? Why do you have to kill your wife? I mean very rarely does a woman kill a man? It's usually, 99 percent of the time, it's a man. Where -- what place do you go to you have to decide I can't leave this woman or I can't divorce, I have to kill her.

KING: Do we know the answer?

WALSH: I don't think anybody does.

KING: But it is important to find the remains?

WALSH: Adam was decapitated. And that's all we found of him, was his skull, thank god. I wish that we had been able to find his body over the years.

KING: But it was important you found something.

WALSH: Very much. If we hadn't, you know what, I would still be looking, I probably wound be sitting here with you. And the finding the remains is crucial.

KING: Let's discuss some aspects and then get into it. We're going to discuss a lot of cases that John Walsh has been on top of. We'll get to one in just a moment. But crime used to be a big issue in campaigns. We hear terrorism discussed, but crime, doesn't seem like, how low a crime in America.

WALSH: No. I'm amazed not to see it, because crime is down in some categories. I mean, violent crime is down a few percentage points.

KING: Murder is down, isn't it?

WALSH: No. Murder is up. That's the weirdest thing, is murder is up. And in some cities, murder is higher than it's ever been. Some cities have set all kinds of records. But I think the media -- a lot of these presidential candidates are driven by what's on the news and what the news bureaus, or what you're talking about, and of course, I think the Democratic Party thinks that Iraq is a weak spot, is an Achilles heel for President Bush.

KING: And Bush doesn't bring up crime either, though?

WALSH: I don't understand, because he's a law enforcement type of guy. And we certainly have a lot of problems here in our own country.

KING: But the National Police Union supported Kerry?

WALSH: Well, most mainstream law enforcement agencies support Bush. This is the first time I've actually seen them divided. In the old days, very few of them sported Clinton, everybody supported George Bush Senior.

KING: Even though Clinton put all those police officers on the street. WALSH: He did. I worked on that piece of legislation. And I think he realized he didn't have the support of law enforcement in the beginning, I think he worked hard to get it. I think -- he earned that respect.

KING: All right, let's look at cases. Let's look at the first one, a young Brooklyn boy killed by a stray bullet. Watch.


WALSH (voice-over): Jubeir and Alfonso Foul (ph): Two brothers in Brooklyn, New York, who cops say got out of prison and started a turf war with another gang of accused drug dealers. Stelly Chisim (ph), walking with his children, found his family in the crossfire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw my son fall. So I grab him, he gets limp, I'm picking him up. That's when it really hit me, that he's really gone.

WALSH: After the senseless murder of Deshon Hill, the Foul (ph) brothers disappeared.


KING: Where is that now?

WALSH: Heartbreaking case. I can't get over it. First, how did they get out of jail? They're gangbangers, drug dealers, et cetera. They no sooner get out of jail, they're in the middle of a shootout. I mean, this is a gangbanging shootout with a beautiful 8-year-old boy walking home, trying to be safe in his neighborhood.

You talked about how presidents aren't talking about crime. I mean here in Los Angeles they had a gangbang shooting with 6 people shot and a 10-year-old boy. I mean we have our own problems.

But the brothers are on the run. We have wonderful tips they're in Atlanta. I think they skated before we could get the marshals and the New York P.D. flew right down to get them. This family needs justice.

KING: You have, what, people standing by at phones?

WALSH: At "America's Most Wanted" have our own hotline operators. And that bond of trust that I have built up over the 17 years years, cops don't answer the phones. I think -- we caught 808 fugitives in these 17 years, because people are afraid of the police. They won't call the police.

So they can call the hotline operator. We'll have the cops there on the set, we'll have marshals, FBI agents. A lot of cops don't have the resources. They'll say, gee, and we have got 10 great tips. We call the marshals or the FBI, or local caps in that area.

In this case, we got great tips down in Atlanta, so Atlanta P.D. partnered up with NYPD and they canvased the neighborhoods. But we started -- you know, over the years I've been on the show, we've had -- we start the show at 9:00 East Coast time, we've caught people at 9:05, 9:10, right there in the body of the show.

KING: Why are people mistrusting of cops?

WALSH: They're afraid of 2 things, that they'll be dragged into the case and they'll have to be a witness. They'll figure the cops are tapping my call, or tracing my call. And a lot of times, Larry, people are afraid of retribution. They're scared to death that if anybody finds out that they dropped the dime on their cousin, or a gang member, or a drug dealer, they're going to die.

KING: Your calls are not traced?

WALSH: Not traced, not tapped, never. I have had law enforcement agents us, can we trace and tap your phones? I said, know something, you know who my partners are? You are my law enforcement partners, but how we've been able to catch the uncatchable is the American public.

KING: They were cautious about this, law enforcement, when it started?

WALSH: FBI wasn't. The local cops were. The local cops, were saying, what's this? Reality television, the father of a murdered child, but Director Sessions way back in the day, in 1988, the first show, Bill Sessions said I know John Walsh, I believe in what he's going to do, I think he's going to do it with dignity and he was supportive of it from the out.

KING: We'll be right back. We'll have another case to show you as we come back. In each segment we'll show you a case their following. We'll be including your phone call, as well, for John Walsh, who keeps on keeping on. Don't go away.


WALSH: You've given investigators a lot of great leads, but they still need one tip that will take the Foul brothers down. Remember, Alfonso or Jubeir may have changed their appearance. They could have cut off their hair, or shaved their beards. So, take a good look at their phases. If you know where the Foul brothers are hiding tonight, call us at 1-800-CRIME-TV.




ED MILLER, CORRESPONDENT: Detroit police officer Cheryl Lynn Fleming believed crime fighting had to start with children, that's why she lectured school kids against behavior that can easily turn into trouble. (on camera): It turns out, Chery Lynn would face her greatest danger, not as a cop, but private citizen. It happened on February 7 , 2001 in what should have been a routine moment. She was simply picking up her dry-cleaning.

(voice-over): The face-off lasted only a few tense seconds before Cheryl Lynn pulled out her gun. The masked gunman apparently panicked and opened fire, shooting three times. One bullet missed, one hit Cheryl Lynn the hand, but the last one pierced her heart.


KING: Where is this guy?

WALSH: We don't know.

KING: Do we know if she identified herself as a police officer? There's a difference, I think, if you do that.

WALSH: I believe she did. She was retired. You know, there's so many sad cases on here tonight, and a lot of them are my special cases that I always bring to you.

This woman was 25 years on the Detroit Police Department, retired. Her mother celebrated and said, you made it, she was undercover drugs narcotics officer 15 of those years, and she said, you made it, you're retired and she was going around teaching kids in the schools. And she gets killed picking up her dry-cleaning.

And you know, she could have blown that guy away. She hesitated. She tried to get him to drop his gun, all the witnesses said. And he just cold bloodly shot her.

KING: Any leads on someone...

WALSH: No. He's got the mask. And, you know, everybody...

KING: So, why do you even follow...

WALSH: Well, because we've broken so many cases, Larry, where somebody -- you know, a lot of guys get drunk or high and they brag about it, and they talk to somebody, or they'll talk to somebody in prison about it, you know, they want to be a big deal in prison, I wasted a cop. Somebody is going to say something about the killing, this cold-blooded killing, and that person I hope has the guts to call our hotline. That's how we solve a lot of these cases.

KING: What is is -- there's a John Walsh is in a comic book. What is this?

WALSH: "The Outsiders" was one of my favorite comic books. The Outsiders is a kind of state of the art type of comic book. And the writer called me up, he's a wonderful young man, and he called, and we got talking about it. And he said, I'd like to have the Outsiders come to you for help and write you in the comic book.

KING: They're heroes?

WALSH: They're heroes, and they've had rough backgrounds. I thought it was a real complement. He said to me, in my mind, you're the modern day Batman. You've had a terrible tragedy, you try to go out and change things. So, you know, my boys, 17 -- 19-year-old and 10-year-old sons, it's not a big deal I'm on "America's Most Wanted," but think it's cool that I'm in that comic book.

KING: You were also in Dick Tracy?

WALSH: Dick Tracy was a real honor. They've never had a real person in all the decades of Dick Tracy. And they put me in there. And Dick Tracy came to me with his toughest cases, Mumbles and all that. And part of the deal was that they would draw a picture of an FBI ten most wanted guy. So, I was in Dick Tracy for three months. Again, that was an honor. It was something I take as a compliment.

KING: How are we doing on these world characters in terrorism? Putting leads out on them?

WALSH: Yes, we are. I mean, Larry, we revisit these guys, because I I hate to say it. I mean, I watched one of the beheadings on the video two days ago, the last of the two beheadings.

KING: Where did you see it?

WALSH: On the Internet -- to see if there are any tips. Well, because I've been profiling these guys so long, and we look at them to see if there's anything that somebody might see. And I watched a lot of horrible stuff. But in a way, I wish no one would ever see it. In a way, I wish people would see these poor men.

This last man had a 13-year-old daughter, he's begging for his life. And these cowards brutally cut his head off and then hold it up and say, Allah akbar, praise God. How do you fight these people? But you must know that they're horrible, horrible people that want to destroy our way of life.

If was up to them, every woman would be burkha'ed. And you, for example, you've be dead. You're Jewish. I mean, everybody in Israel would be dead. And then they would take on the infidels here.

So, I'm after the terrorists. I've been profiling bin Laden since 1993, when he took down the World Trade Towers. And I'll never forget, 6 people were killed and a lot of people would call up the "America's Most Wanted" hotline say, stick to the child molesters, only 6 people died. Little did we know that he had focused in on us.

KING: Can we guess that a lot -- that al Qaeda is in the United States?

WALSH: Oh, absolutely, Larry. I don't doubt. I agree with every terrorism expert that they're going to plan something to try to upset this election, because they were absolutely encouraged by what they did with the Madrid train bombing. Blowing up that train just before the elections changed the Spanish parliament, changed the president of Spain who immediately took the troops out and al Qaeda said we won. We've terrorized Spain, we killed 250 innocent people, Spain is on their knees, they're scared to death of us.

KING: We wouldn't pull out if that happened. They're reading us wrong if they do that.

WALSH: No. I always think about my father and my uncle who were World War II heroes. My father was a B-24 bomber pilot, won 15 medals. He said, John, I never wanted to kill anybody. I think it was horrible that we dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and killed innocent citizens. But if it wasn't for America, Hitler and Tojo (ph) would have taken over the world. And we would have been slaves. And we saddled up. America always saddles up, Larry. We do the right thing. We really do.

KING: But you definitely fear something happening?

WALSH: I believe that they're here, they're just waiting. They're in about 30 countries now. Their ranks have grown. I mean, these jihadists, fundamentalists are now pouring into Iraq from Jordan and Syria. I mean, where can you go and take a potshot at an American, or kill a poor worker over there.

KING: 30 yesterday.

WALSH: They don't care about killing their own people, though, Larry. You know, when Muslims are killing Muslims and saying, oh no, I'm doing it for God, something's wrong. That would be like you or you, a Jewish man, going into New York City to perpetrate your crazy bizarre Jewish philosophy and going into Manhattan and killing 30 Jewish people. I don't get it. But I do understand on thing. I've been to the Persian Gulf. I've been to the Middle East, they hate us. They want to kill us. And we have to fight back.

KING: The Jew who killed Yitzhak Rabin.

WALSH: That was a sad -- that was a sad day.

KING: We'll take a break with John Walsh. We'll come back with another case they're following. We'll start to include your phone calls, don't go away.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The masked gunman ran off. And one eyewitness believes he escaped in a burgandy Cadillac Escalade SUV like this one. Police say Cheryl Lynn's death is the only unsolved murder of a Detroit cop, retired or active, in the city's history.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The reason we have laws is to make sure our lives are a lot safer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cheryl Lynn Fleming spent her life upholding the law and now we have to find justice for her. If you know anything about the murder of retired Detroit police officer Cheryl Lynn Fleming, please call 1-800-CRIME-TV. (END VIDEOTAPE)



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People in the criminal community began to believe that I was a hit man, and then I began to be solicited for murders.

WALSH (voice-over): But who would the Hell's Angels want him to kill? If your a Hell's Angel, there's nothing you hate more than a Mongol. The Mongol in the ditch with a gaping head wound is actually a cop. He's not really dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he brought the pictures back to show his fellow homocide detectives, it fooled them.

WALSH: It fooled the Hell's Angels, too. So now Scorpion became, what's called a fully patched member. He was so trusted by his outlaw biker brothers that he even pulled bodyguard details guarding the godfather himself, Sonny Barger.

In this photo, the man who always boasted that cops could never infiltrate his gang was actually posing with several undercover agents.


KING: Who are you looking for here?

WALSH: Well, this guy Paul Ishad and then Douglas Wistrom. Ishad is wanted for murder -- in this Arizona chapter of the Hell's Angels. And I want to say something, I own 5 motorcycles so I'm not against bikers, by any means, and I've ridden bikes my whole life. And I don't want hear from people on motorcycles.

The Hell's Angels are a bunch of cowards. They sell lots of drugs, meth. They sell arms. They deal arms underground. They use teenage run aways as prostitutes.

They brought a girl into their clubhouse there, and members of the Angels beat her, raped her and stabbed her a hundred times, almost cut her head off and threw it out into the desert. That brave cop that infiltrated the Angels, the first time in the history of the Angels. You know, there's chapters everywhere, England, Canada. There's a chapter in New York City, in Greenwich Village, of the Hell's Angels.

But he infiltrated the Angels. He was part of a task force. And they got about, I think, 300 indictments against Angel chapters around the country for selling illegal automatic weapons and all these things. But this Ishid is a ruthless cold-blooded killer.

And, you know, we glamourize these Angels in these movies. You know, they bodyguarded the Stones back in the day. You know what, they're just a bunch of lowlife cowards that prey upon people. And, you know, this guy, both these guys need to be hunted down.

KING: You never give up, do you?

WALSH: No. I don't in giving up.

KING: Let's take some calls, too, as we roll along with John Walsh. Los Angeles. Hello. Los Angeles, hello. Are you there? Good-bye.

Hammond, Indiana, hello.

CALLER: Hello. I'd like to ask John a question.

KING: Sure.

CALLER: First of all, congratulations, John. You've done a great job over these years in hunting these guys down and putting them -- getting them to justice. I'd like to know if you think that a show like yours, translated into the Islamic areas like Pakistan or something, or through al-Jazeera or something, could do something to catch bin Laden and Zarqawi and stuff. Or if you've ever tried anything like that?

WALSH: Thank you for the compliment. You're absolutely right. Two weeks before they shot those two body guards on the bridge in Fallujah and chopped them up, et cetera, I had already met with Colin Powell's people. I was going to go over and teach the Iraqies in Baghdad, I was going to take five guys, and we were going over and start Iraqi's Most Wanted because Saddam Hussein left a terrestrial TV stations everywhere and controlled it out of Baghdad.

So my idea was, to broadcast Iraqi's Most Wanted, and give the average Iraqi terrified -- if you had a Syrian or Lebanese terrorist next to you who said, you know, Larry, if you tell anybody I'm here, I'll kill you and your two beautiful boys and your wife, let them call. A lot of cell phones over there, call anonymously. And we give the person a number, 555.

If there's takedown, catch a terrorist, with a bunch of RPG's, you know grenade launchers, any calls back, I'm 555. We give him the money, where do you want it, do you want it deposited in Cairo, do you want it deposited Dubais. I was just ready, they worked it all out. So, how you get into Baghdad, you have a teaser plane come in first, because they try to shoot down -- you buzz it. I was all set to hit the ground in Baghdad. I still believe Iraqi's Most Wanted would work.

KING: What happened?

WALSH: Well, they said it was too dangerous. We can not guarentee you. They're taking all kinds of hostages.

KING: Could a crime cable network, work?

WALSH: There's a reality cable network, but I think a crime cable network would. And this man is right on target. I think there should be a most wanted in Iraqi and in the Arab world. And I think there are a lot of good Iraqis and good people who don't want these people in their country and would pick up that phone.

KING: Kenmoore, Alberta. Hello.

CALLER: Hi Larry. Hi John. My wife and I have a 10-year-old girl. We live in a small resort town that has tripled in size in the last 10 years. We have a significant transient worker and part-time population. Crime that risen, including sexual assaults, not all attributed to transients, or part-timers. My daughter thinks my wife and I are too protective. We are wondering can we get advice and material to guide us on teaching her to be street-wise without scaring her? Additionally, are there any programs available in the schools?

WALSH: Oh, boy, a great question. And I'm thrilled that you're so aware of the potential. I mean, nobody believed that 800 priests would be pedofiles. I mean, once you get by the fact that it can happen to you. It could be anybody. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, 1-800-THE-LOST has all kinds of free child safety programs, collaterals in three different languages, how to talk to your daughter. And I do not give up, because females from the age of 9 to 22 is the largest category of victims.

KING: And also rebel.

WALSH: Oh, absolutely. And they think they're immortal. You have to open the lines of communication. We have been into this for years. We have these wonderful safety programs approved by tons of psychologists and psychiatrists, non-threatening.

But a lady said something to me many, many years ago, she said I'd rather have my daughter a little bit more paranoid and aware of what, than go to the morgue and identify her body. She kind of cut to the chase there.

But there are great programs. 1-800-THE-LOST. All those programs are free. Open those lines of communication with your daughter, and you'll never regret it. My 22-year-old daughter Meagan said, dad, you made my life a nightmare, constantly saying you have to be at home at a certain time, and all this type of stuff. And now she's 22. She says, I look back and you really showed me how much you love me.

KING: We'll be back with John Walsh. More cases, more calls. The host of "America's Most Wanted."

Monday night, Bob Sheiffer. He's going to host of one of the upcoming Presidential debates. Don't go away.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of the dozens of Hell's Angels indicted, only 2 remain at large. One of the is Paul Ischeid. Ischeid is wanted for the murder of Cynthia Garcia, a woman who attended a party at the Mesa Club House, and was later found mutilitaed and dumped in the desert. The other Hell's Angels fugitive is Doug Wistrom. Wistrom is wanted on weapons charges. Dough Wistrom goes by the nickname Sled Dog. Agents believe he's hiding in Northern Arizona. You can help the ATF wrap up Operation: Black Biscuit tonight by nailing these two outlaws, call 1-800-CRIME-TV.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jill was 19-year-old sophomore at Indiana University in Bloomington who loved biking. On the morning of May 31, 2000 Jill suited up and headed for her daily bike ride at around 9:30 a.m. Jill was seen about 15 minutes later by a former classmate. But she never showed up for a lunch date with her dad and grandparents or her job at the Student Rec Center.

Two days later, a local farmer found her bike in his field, miles from her regular route. Then, March 2003, Hunter stumbles over Jill's remains in a remote wooded area.


KING: Here's something that boggles me. Hacking is a major national story. Why wasn't this? Who decides?

WALSH: You know who decides? News people. It's pack reporting. I met the parents, Jill Bierman's parents on "Good Morning America" several years ago. And they said, John, nobody cares about missing adults over 18. We can't get any publicity. I mean, we all know about Chandra Levy

KING: Chandra Levy.

WALSH: Well, we know about Chandra Levy, because she had an affair with Gary Condit, and Gary Condit didn't have the guts to admit it. And I said that many people in the news. I said there are 5,000 missing women in the FBI computer. Most of them are between 18 to 30, 35 or so. And Jill Bierman was one of them, and nobody cares unless there's something sexy.

KING: What kind of leads do you have on him?

WALSH: Well, here's the most bizarre thing, they found her remains. Which I always believed she was dead. And there's a guy named Carey Silvers, who was in jail and he contacted cops and said, my cell-mate has bragged about killing a student at the University of Indianapolis. And all of a sudden, the cops go to talk to him and this guy escaped from jail. He's out there, I mean, he's the lead to the case.

KING: The guy who called?

WALSH: Not the killer. The guy, he was a cellmate. So, now, they're going to talk to him, say Carey we'll make a deal with you, maybe he's not in it with a big thing. We'll make a deal with him. He escapes from prison.

So I'm looking -- we don't know who the murderer of this girl is, but we're looking for Carey Silvers.

KING: Another case you wanted to discuss was Molly Datillo (ph) in Indiana?

WALSH: Congressman Dan Burton, and I know you know him, he's a good man. And he and I have been battling for years to try to get the Saudis to give back noncustodial parental abducted kids. A lot of Saudis, will come here, marry American woman, get divorced because they think women are second class citizens and go back to Saudi Arabia.

There's about 300 of them there. 300 kids that they're mothers are never going to see again, ever. And the Saudis, you know, come and party here in Disneyworld, and we buy all their oil and they won't bring these kids back.

So Dan calls me up 2 days ago, and says John, exactly what you said, Larry, he says, we have got a beautiful 23-year-old girl here, Molly Ditilo, I know you put her on her Web site, could you get her on the show. The family is distraught.

And I said, you know Dan, it's unfair, I didn't even know -- we don't hear about it. I mean, I said, you know what, Larry King's a friend of mine, I'll get that picture on on Friday.

KING: And what are we looking to accomplish by this?

WALSH: To get any clues whatsoever. I mean...

KING: As to where she is.

WALSH: To where she is. She'll be on tomorrow night's Most Wanted. She's in Indianapolis. She's still missing. She was a college student. She was last seen going at night to apply at Wendy's for a job.

KING: What does that have to do with the Saudi Arabian thing?

WALSH: Oh, that's how I met Dan Burton. I'm sorry. I was saying that Dan Burton and I became friends over the years because he's a child advocate. He called me up, and he said we're not getting any publicity. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to digress. But she's still missing and we need, desperately, for some clues.

KING: Edmonton, Alberta, hello

CALLER: Hi, Mr. Walsh. I have a lot of admiration for you. I wanted to know what's happening with Chandra Levy?

WALSH: Well, thank you for the compliment. And sadly, there's not even a suspect in the Chandra Levy case.

KING: Similar to this one?

WALSH: Very much so. Thank god they found her remains. I still believe, and this is my own opinion that 2 girls that were killed just before Chandra Levy in Dupont Circle, you and I talked about it -- one girl was an immigration lawyer whose body was found in the water 70 miles downstream in the Potomac. And these 2 women looked like Chandra Levy, were about the same build, were all seen, one left a barbecue, one left something in the afternoon. I always believed that there was a serial killer in the Dupont Circle area, probably gone from there, now. But I hate to say, nothing on Chandra Levy.

KING: Covina, California. Hello.

CALLER: Hi. Good evening, gentlemen. My question is for Mr. Walsh. Mr. Walsh, the Peterson case is almost coming to an end. I would like your opinion on this case. Do you think the jury is going to convict or not convict?

KING: You can have an opinion, now.

WALSH: You know, this is John Walsh's opinion. And I know that, and you're innocent until proven guilty, and he's only accused. I had a conversation with Scott Peterson. His father and his 5 brothers called me up and said, you know, Scott's wife is missing with his son. You're the court of last resort, will you talk to Scott? I said, yes.

Scott calls me on my cell phone. And I say, Scott, I cannot understand a couple things. And he says, well, Mr. Walsh, my father asked me to call you. And I said, Scott, I'll bring "America's Most Wanted" out there. He actually -- my show was the first one he appeared on. And I said, I'll bring out there, but you have got to answer a couple questions.

No. 1, why aren't you cooperating with police? Why didn't you take the lie detector test? When Adam was missing, the first thing that Revee and I did was go in, and the police have to eliminate you, we took 8 hours of lie detector tests. And I said, Scott, if I could have traded my life for Adam's I would have stood in Time Square naked and taken a bullet for him. And I never left the police department for 2 weeks. You haven't been to the command center, you're not cooperating with the police. You're the one who's throwing the search off.

KING: What was his answer?

WALSH: He said I can't handle it emotionally. That's why I'm playing golf.

So I said, you know what, I'm getting on a plane and I'm coming out there and bring the know help you get your beautiful wife back and your son. Don't forgot this is your wife, is the victim. And you know what, I waited 6 hours in front of his house. He never showed up. He went into a room with one of my producers and did the interview. And I was so furious at him, because his wife was the victim. His beautiful wife.

KING: He didn't do it with you, he did it with...

WALSH: He wouldn't do it with me. You know what the detective said to me, this guy can't look you in the eye, he won't sit in a room with you. You're the last guy he wants to look in the eye and say, oh I need help getting my beautiful wife back.

I hope the jury does the right thing. I know it's tough a case. My opinion is that he's guilty. That's just my opinion. And I'll tell you what, I hope that that jury of 12, honest men and women, because a lot of the evidence, you know there's no smoking gun, there's no murder weapon, these cases are really tough to prove, I hope the jury does the right thing.

KING: Hutchinson, Kansas. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry. Hi John. John, I want to commend you for everything that you do for all children in the world. And my question was, last night, John Kerry said that President Bush has cut funding for police and firefighters. And I want to know how you feel that that makes our country, let alone our children any safer.

KING: You have a thought on that?

WALSH: Yes I do. I don't think that's factual. I think that I've had many meetings with President Bush. He's the biggest supporter of law enforcement and firefighters. I think John Kerry, that was just a grab, I don't think that's actually factual. I don't think that's something that President Bush -- everything I've asked President Bush to do, that was to give the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children...

KING: But there were funds cut, weren't there?

WALSH: At one point and they've been reinstated. And I don't think he got to that point. But he's been a big advocate for children.

KING: Hagerstown, Maryland. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry. Hi, John. I think you're absolutely wonderful for everything that you do. My question is how are you children doing today, and how do they handle the job that you do -- have to do?

WALSH: Well, thank you for the compliments. I have a beautiful 22-year-old daughter, is senior in college, about to graduate. Our 19-year-old son is a sophomore in college. And we have the gift of a 10-year-old son, a little boy, like you have your 2 beautiful little boys.

They've always grown up, they never knew Adam. They know that their brother was murdered.

KING: They never met him, right?

WALSH: They never met him. They've grown -- Meagan was born a year afterwards. And we've been blessed -- my beautiful wife and I have been blessed with these children. They handle the death threats, they handle the body guards, they don't know any different. I think and hope they're proud of me. They have to live a different style life, but they're all active, they play sports and the participate...

KING: Has anyone ever say to you stop it?

WALSH: Nope. No. As a matter of fact, my daughter is doing her senior project on me, which I said, Meagan, I'm so honored and flattered pick out some other American. She said, no, I'm really proud of you, dad.

KING: What about this other case about Mark Everett, targeted as a former child actor being featured this Saturday?

WALSH: Tomorrow night, Mark Everett was in "Pee-Wee Herman's Playhouse," the movie. He was a child actor here, got into drugs, got a woman pregnant, they lived together. She said you got to kick the drugs, you're out of here. They have a 2 1/2-year-old son, he beat her to death in front of that little boy.

KING: The actor?

WALSH: The actor, Mark Everett. He's on the run with his 2 1/2- year-old child.

KING: Got the kid.

WALSH: He's got the boy, she's dead.

KING: Why wasn't this a front page?

WALSH: I have no idea, Larry. And he was a child actor. It's a Hollywood story.

KING: So people have seen him on television.

WALSH: Absolutely. They've seen him in movies. He hasn't had any acting roles in his adult life. But here's a guy that's on the run with a 2 1/2-year-old boy. What if he gets high and does something to this little boy? What if he kills himself and the little boy? I mean, it should be front page news. It's mind-boggling. But we need to get him back.

KING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) did he show his picture to you...

WALSH: Yeah, we show his picture. We tell the whole story. We tell the whole story tomorrow night. And you know, these guys who run off with their kids when they've done something horrible, it's mind- boggling. And I know you are going to try to get to Sam and Lindsey Porter. You know, this is a... KING: They're next.

WALSH: They're next. Do you have video of them?

KING: Yeah, we're going to go to it when we come back.

WALSH: Yeah, well, just Mark Everett (ph) needs to be hunted down before he does something to that 2 1/2-year-old boy.

KING: We'll take a look at that case when we come back. Don't go away.


WALSH: The marshals are the country's best manhunters, and the man Jason is now hunting is the guy we told you about last week, Kerry Silvers. As we told you, Silvers is not a suspect in Jill's murder, but the police believe he may hold a key to solving this case.

They say when he was in jail on robbery and fraud charges, another inmate may have given him key information about who killed Jill Bearman (ph). The problem is, Silvers escaped from jail and has disappeared. If you have any information about Kerry Silvers, call us at 1-800-CRIME-TV.




WALSH: After years of trying to make the marriage work, Tina finally had enough. Last fall, she took the kids and moved out. On Saturday, June 5, Dan Porter picked up the kids for the weekend. Late that evening, Tina received a text message on her cell phone. She followed his cryptic directions, and discovered a note saying that Sam and Lindsey wouldn't be coming home. Didn't take the Independence Police Department long to track Porter down. Where were Sam and Lindsey? Porter kept changing his story. Dan Porter now refuses to talk to Tina, the police or anyone else about Sam and Lindsey. Inside this county jail, he sits locked away, his awful secret locked inside with him.


KING: Now, that's weird.

WALSH: That's a heartbreaking case...

KING: What do you make of that?

WALSH: Well, here's a guy...

KING: His kids, right?

WALSH: It's his kids. And this is like the fifth case I've been involved in this, where the guy, to get even with the wife -- she got sick of him, he was in drug rehab, she got sick of him, he's a bum, and he was abusing to her. He was actually convicted of spousal abuse.

And she kicks him out, and he comes and kidnaps the kids. And now, he's in jail for kidnapping. But to torture her, who knows where these kids are. I mean...


KING: Probably didn't kill them, I mean?

WALSH: No, no, I'm praying that he didn't kill them, but we've had cases, I've been on here, on this show, where it turned out the guy from Ohio killed his two kids and dumped them along the lake.

KING: Could have sold them on the black market, could have...

WALSH: Could have, probably, but you know something? I mean, we're so politically correct, I hate to say it. I'd like to get in that cell for five minutes.

KING: What, beat him up?

WALSH: No, I'd get him to tell me where those two little kids are, because they could be in harm's way. There could be somebody with them that's not taking care of them.

KING: The mother must be frantic.

WALSH: She is heartbroken, Larry, she's heartbroken. She calls up every day and says, you know, why won't the hell -- the guy has got his own problems...

KING: So what are you asking the public to do in this case?

WALSH: The public, if they know, if there is...

KING: Do you show pictures of the kids?

WALSH: Oh, yeah, absolutely, the whole story. Somebody knows where these kids are, do the right damn thing.

KING: Chicago, hello.

CALLER: Hello, good afternoon, gentlemen.


CALLER: Hi, Mr. King. Good evening, Mr. Walsh. Hi. (UNINTELLIGIBLE). As you guys mentioned earlier in the program regarding crime, and how it was not mentioned during the most recent presidential debate, here in Chicago last year, we almost reached 700 murders, most of them involving handguns and guns and gangs. Now, with that stated, Mr. Walsh, I know that you're a big fan of Mr. Bush, and kudos to you for it. But where do you come down on the assault weapons ban not being reinstated? Because here in Chicago, if you have a business in the downtown area or an outlying community or the inner city, we're in trouble. And these kids are in trouble. And I mean, we can't build prisons fast enough. And there's a problem, because we have more (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

KING: All right, what do you make of the assault ban?

WALSH: It's a great question. I couldn't agree with you more. I hunt, I shoot sporting clays, I own guns, but I am a strict gun control evacuate. I am absolutely against assault weapons. Not renewing this...


WALSH: Not renewing this assault weapon ban was insane. The two kids that killed and shot 37 people at Columbine went to a gun show. They were 17 years old, and had an 18-year-old girl. And they picked out automatic weapons and all the ammo. And the gun dealer said, who's 18? And this poor naive girl put her license down, and these guys went in and killed 37 and wounded 37 people the next day. No teenager -- nobody really needs an AK-47. I shoot sporting clays with a shotgun, et cetera. Nobody needs an Uzi.

KING: What's the defense of it?

WALSH: There is no defense. The NRA's saying that they're going to take all our rights to have guns away. Absolutely not. If you can pass a background check, and I mean a good three-day waiting period, if you're willing to do that, not buy a gun and kill your wife because you're drunk in a domestic dispute. Pass the background check. Believe in trigger locks. Five kids in a week in this country are maimed or killed because of gun accidents in the home. And take a gun course, make it mandatory.

You know, you can get a driver's license only if you know how to drive the car. You can buy a gun, you don't even have to know how to load the darn thing and shoot it. I am for gun control. I wish that Congress -- it's not just President Bush -- it's the NRA targets members of Congress who are gun control evacuates, goes in and spends millions of dollars to get them unelected and then threatens the rest of the congressmen, say, see what I did to that congressman? Congress is paralyzed. We have got 300 million guns in this country, we don't need them. We certainly don't need the assault weapons.

KING: Yeah, I'm sure it will come up in the domestic area of the debate. Akron, Ohio, hello.

CALLER: I'm a victim of a crime, and I can't get the local police to do anything. Would you please help me? They're breaking into women's houses and videotaping them, with little small cameras and putting them on the Internet. Like I said, I've -- it's...

KING: Why won't the police do anything?

CALLER: Because they're perverts who don't care. WALSH: Well, this lady makes a good point. You know, Governor Pataki and I found out that there was a guy in Rochester, New York, who was videotaping his kindergarten students changing their bathing suits. A guy in Manhattan put the video cameras into women's bathrooms. A guy renting to college girls in upstate New York was videotaping them and selling on the Internet. It wasn't even a crime in New York State. We battled and got it to become a felony in New York State, video voyeurism, and to make it a felony. And this lady, I mean, in most states, probably, I'm not sure the count, but I think 42 states, it's not even against the law...

KING: You mean the cops are powerless?

WALSH: They're powerless. I mean, some cops don't want to do it, they say, oh, so what, you were videotaped. Well, God, if it was your wife, if some pervert was taking videos of your wife and selling them on the Internet, you'd go deck them, I know you would.

And so -- it's a lot of times, cops slough it off. If she leaves me a number where we can get back to her. My suggestion to her would be to go to the local media, to go to the D.A.'s office and ask why isn't somebody something about it?

KING: Go to the district attorney, go to newspaper, go to TV stations.

WALSH: Absolutely right.

KING: Maybe go to the TV station in your area that carries "America's Most Wanted," have them contact John Walsh.

We'll be back with our remaining moments. One more case and some more calls. Don't go away.


WALSH (voice-over): Lindsey enjoys soccer, basketball and fishing. She collects Yugio cards and loves dolphins. She has a scar on the right side of her back from a dog bite.

Sam is into wrestling and baseball and playing Playstation video games. He has a slight speech impediment, a problem pronouncing S's. If Sam and Lindsey are with another family, then I'm asking you right now, please, do the right thing, do it for a heartbroken mother.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pick up the phone, call "America's Most Wanted." Lindsey and Sam have friends here, they have family here.

WALSH: If you can help bring Sam and Lindsey Porter home, call our hotline right now at 1-800-CRIME-TV.



(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) WALSH (voice-over): Our man, Gilbudogian (ph) had brought his family from Armenia to America hoping to give them a better life. The family settled in Los Angeles, becoming part of the city's thriving Armenian community. Although a few years later Armen and his wife separated, the future seemed limitless for this immigrant family.

Until June 13, 1996. That night, when Armen Gilbudogian (ph) went to move his car on the street near his apartment in the L.A. suburb of Glendale, someone attacked him. The attackers threw him into the trunk of his own car. Then they sprayed the back of the car with gunfire.


WALSH: Horrible case. Horrible case. This is 1996. It's a cold case. And the detective that working this case has never given up. He says, John, I've never seen. We've found bodies in trunks of cars, but we've never seen a body put in a trunk and sprayed. Now, there's a theory it might be a hit. I think it might be gangbangers in an initiation, you know, they're given, go out and kill somebody.

KING: Totally cold.

WALSH: Totally cold. So, I keep doing it. You know, I never give up. It's taken me sometimes ten years. Somebody might make that call. You know the saddest thing, his daughter, Christine, worked as a hotline operator for America's Most Wanted for 2 years, and then her husband was killed. She worked for America's Most Wanted, helped people as a great hotline operator and her father's murdered.

And when we first aired it, she and her husband, Matt worked the phones and her father was murdered. And she worked for me.

And you know something, somebody knows something about this murder, somebody maybe bragging about it. I think it was two guys, and so do the cops. You know what I say, Larry, if you have any information, if you think you have one minuscule little thing, have the guts. It's about courage.

KING: Let's end on a high note here. Congratulations. Child pornographer shown on John's show was arrested this week. Kevin Leslie Nolan was nabbed in Missouri, there you see him. He was wanted in Illinois for possessing 26,000 pornographic images of children. He fled authorities in June of 2003. America's Most Wanted showed the case on September 11. A tipster recognized Nolan as a man going by the name of Kevin Hamilton and alerted authorities.

WALSH: You know who took him down? The homeland security guys. Mike Garcia formed this task force called ICE, Immigration Customs Enforcement. And this is what they've been doing with your dollars. As well as making us safe, they started Operation: Predator. They found out there were all kinds of convicted illegal aliens of child abuse and sexual abuse of children in this country who say I will not go back to the country. They have arrested 4,000 guys in the last 14 months.

KING: Can't do anything but salute you, man. Always great seeing you.

WALSH: It's an honor to be here, Larry.

KING: John Walsh, the host of "America's Most Wanted."

We're going to honor another great American tonight. Jimmy Carter is 80-years-old today. Best wishes to the man who was the 39th president of the United States, and, of course, a recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize. Happen birthday, Mr. President. I'll be right back.


KING: A highlight LARRY KING LIVE tomorrow night, a Dr. Gupta special on Sunday night. And Monday night back live with Bob Schieffer.


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