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American Morning
Deadly Car Bombs in Baghdad; Iraq Firsthand
Aired October 04, 2004 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back everyone. It's 7:30 on a Monday morning. Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING.
Two more deadly car bombings today in Baghdad coinciding with the latest offensive from U.S. and Iraqi forces. A report on that in a moment.
And we'll also talk to one author who spent a whole lot of time in Baghdad, going back to the year 2000, about how much support insurgents are getting from Iraq's general population, and how much more we're learning, too, about the insurgents, their motivation, who is behind them, et cetera.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, how complicated.
Also, Monday means "90-Second Pop." And today, the panel is checking the pulse of "Saturday Night Live." It's 30th season debuted over the weekend with Ben Affleck as guest host. Yes, that's him. We'll look at the biggest changes this season and whether or not they are working. I heard it was pretty funny. It was past my bedtime, though.
In the meantime, though, we're going to check on the stories "Now in the News" with Daryn Kagan once again at the CNN center.
Daryn -- good morning to you.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Heidi.
Israel is mounting one of its biggest operations in Gaza in four years. Sources say Israeli troops fired on Palestinian militants this morning. Some 70 Palestinians have been killed in the six days of the operation. U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and the Arab League have condemned the Israeli attacks.
There are reports of new rebel attacks this morning in northeastern India. Local media are claiming at least 60 people have been killed there in the last three days. The violence erupted Saturday with large blasts at a train station and a crowded market. Indian officials are promising to deal with the chaos.
Back here in the U.S. in Utah, prosecutors say their case against Mark Hacking is getting stronger. Hacking is accused of killing his wife last July, then dumping her body and the gun in a garbage bin. Police found her body on Friday after 33 days of searching the Salt Lake City landfill. Dental records have confirmed her identity. Mark Hacking is set to be arraigned for the murder later this month. And finally, Martha Stewart is making the most of her time as a free woman. Stewart is expected to report to a federal prison in West Virginia this week. According to the "New York Post," Stewart spent the weekend partying with friends at a wedding in the Bahamas. Getting the fun while she can. It certainly won't look like that in Alderson, West Virginia, where, Bill, as I said, she is expected to be by the end of the week.
HEMMER: Hey, why not? You know, Bahamas now.
KAGAN: If you can do it.
HEMMER: And then next March...
(CROSSTALK)
KAGAN: All right.
HEMMER: Thank you, Daryn.
There was a pair of deadly car bombs exploding earlier today in Baghdad. Brent Sadler is live in the Iraqi capital.
Brent -- what happened there?
BRENT SADLER, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Bill.
Around 16 Iraqis reportedly killed and scores of others wounded in this latest attack, a series of two attacks in the capital. Parts of the city are still under a security lockdown. And there has been sporadic gunfire amid the latest chaos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SADLER (voice over): Two powerful car bomb attacks in central districts of Baghdad, the first targeting an army recruitment center, killing around 15 and wounding at least 75 others, according to Iraq's Health Ministry.
The explosion happened near a U.S. military checkpoint outside the heavily-fortified Green Zone, home to the U.S. and British embassies. A white sports utility vehicle burst into flames amid scenes of bloodshed and panic.
The attack plan was similar to scores of other strikes on Iraq's security forces, aimed at making Iraqis afraid of recruitment into the ranks of the police and army, as well as sapping morale among those already serving.
In a second blast, Iraqi reports say bombers targeted two armored vehicles of the type used by Western security personnel and contractors in a busy commercial district. One killed and some 13 others wounded in that attack.
From the top of our hotel, we could see a large plume of black smoke. Then a brief gun battle, shots echoing across the city, as Iraqi police reportedly exchanged fire with suspected insurgents. Even as U.S.-backed Iraqi forces claim to have overwhelmed a rebel stronghold at Samarra, some 60 miles north of Baghdad, insurgents have again proved they can strike terror in the heart of the capital.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
West of Baghdad, there has been more U.S. airstrikes against the insurgents, planning the kind of attacks we have seen here in Baghdad today, airstrikes that do continue on a near daily basis -- Bill.
HEMMER: Brent Sadler from Baghdad this morning.
Veteran journalist Jon Lee Anderson has reported extensively from Iraq for "The New Yorker." He covers the final days of the Saddam Hussein regime in a new book. It's called "The Fall of Baghdad." And Jon Lee Anderson is my guest now here in New York.
Good morning to you. Pleasure seeing you in person.
JON LEE ANDERSON, "THE NEW YORKER": Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: Let's first talk about Samarra over the weekend. You suggested this could be a tipping point in Iraq. How so?
ANDERSON: Well, it could be. I mean, this was the first time that there was a raid of this type by the U.S. in such a way where significant numbers of Iraqi forces, newly-trained Iraqi forces joined the Americans in an assault on an insurgent-held town.
Now, until now, we've had previous assaults like this, usually just the Marines or the Americans and a very few number of Iraqi auxiliaries. And they have tended to halt the fighting with political negotiations, retreat, and then before long we hear that the town is in the hands of the insurgents again and more retrenched than ever.
So, I think the jury is out on this one. I think it's a key test case for the military's strategy of wresting back control of the insurgent-held towns. Samarra well might be one of the more easier targets, which is why they have chosen to do it now. Fallujah being a much bigger and much more difficult target. But I think we have to watch to see exactly what the Americans and the Iraqis do in Samarra in the coming days.
HEMMER: When it comes to the insurgents in general, how much do you not understand about the makeup of the insurgents, the motivation behind them?
ANDERSON: Well, the motivation is quite clear. And, of course, there are shades of gray. You have most of them are fighting to get rid of the -- as they see it -- foreign military occupation of their country. Some, a small group I think, would wish to see some semblance of a Baathist regime back in power, people that were displaced from power. But there's a lot of young men who joined the cause simply out of a sense of humiliation, nothing better to do, outrage over abuses apparently committed by American troops, the kind of raids conducted. And then, of course, you have you the Islamist extreme.
All of them have a tactical alliance, if you will, in a common aim, which is to expel the foreign invader. The actual nuts and bolts of how they collaborate with one another are difficult to know. Our own intelligence community doesn't really know.
HEMMER: What about for regular Iraqis? How much support are the insurgents getting from them? And one thing we are always curious about, where is the outage on behalf of the Iraqi people when 35 schoolchildren were blown up last week?
ANDERSON: There is out rage. And this could be -- that is another potential tipping point in the psyche of the Iraqis. You have to -- we have to recognize that insurgents -- call them what you want -- terrorists cannot exist without -- they are the fish in the Iraqi pond. Zarqawi and his head-chopping militants could not be operating in Iraq if it weren't for the goodwill and the support of a passive but tacitly cooperative Iraqi population, wherever he is hiding.
There is a widespread resentment against the American occupation and the way things have been conducted in Iraq, which have allowed this situation to come about. If Zarqawi and his lot begin -- are seen to be hurting the Iraqis even more than they are hurting the Americans, that's the potential tipping point in terms of cooperation by Iraqis toward his type of people. We could be seeing possibly a beginning of that.
HEMMER: I've got 20 more questions for you, and I'm afraid we're out of time. Excellent book.
ANDERSON: Thank you.
HEMMER: Congratulations to you and your work. And if you go back, be safe, OK?
ANDERSON: Thank you, Bill.
HEMMER: Jon Lee Anderson here in New York -- Heidi.
COLLINS: We want to take a moment now to check on the weather.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COLLINS: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, did health insurers have concerns about Vioxx even before it was pulled from the market? We'll talk about that coming up.
HEMMER: Also, a bottle of red, a bottle of white. The piano man walks down the aisle again. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right, welcome back, everyone. Jack is on vacation this week. Andy Borowitz is in.
Did you see the style section of "The New York Times"? Enough of that.
How are you? Good morning again.
ANDY BOROWITZ, HUMORIST: It's good to be here.
HEMMER: Yes, it's good see you, too.
BOROWITZ: We have got an amazing question. It's debate week, of course. And tomorrow night is the much-anticipated debate between Vice President Dick Cheney and Senator John Edwards. But in my fantasy league, there would be a whole different kind of debate going on. I'm proposing a debate between the first lady and her feisty challenger.
So, our question is: If Laura Bush debated Teresa Heinz Kerry, who would win and why? And, boy, are we getting tons of interesting responses.
Tammy from Midland, Michigan, writes: "What would they debate over? Picking out the White House china? Bush shows more class in public, but overall Kerry has more to offer in the real word."
OK.
Mary from Bainbridge, Georgia, says: "I cannot fathom Mrs. Kerry as first lady. She's not even a lady. High five for Mrs. Bush to win every time."
Georgia is not a swing state.
Roger from Cola Sparta, Tennessee, writes: "Teresa Heinz Kerry would win hands down. Americans like real flavor, not a generic substitute. She is sassy and isn't afraid to put rag reporters in their place, like the newspaper guy she told to stuff it."
I think she used a slightly different phrase, but that's OK.
And Weldon, of course, from New Brunswick, Canada, writes: "Teresa would be like the 'catsup' bottle, where you have to shake for it a while to get that first drop."
And I think a good issue in this debate would be ketchup versus catsup. What is it? Really.
HEMMER: I think you're onto something.
BOROWITZ: Yes, what is it? I think it's ketchup, actually.
HEMMER: Or you could take that knife and slide it up there and make that little air pocket...
(CROSSTALK)
BOROWITZ: Yes, that's an issue, too.
COLLINS: Yes, there is definitely a technique, no question about it.
All right, Andy, thanks for that.
We want to talk now to Gerri Willis. She is in for Andy Serwer this morning. And talking about the withdrawal of Vioxx from the market and how much Merck may have known -- actually what health insurers may have known about the drug.
GERRI WILLIS, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS: That is what's so interesting here. A lot of health insurers had already restricted access to Vioxx. Here's what was going on. Kaiser, the group health, even the Veteran's Administration, they were not allowing people access to this drug. They had concerns mainly that the drug was overused.
You know, this is a painkiller that Merck voluntarily recalled because long-term use may promote the risk of heart attack. Big concerns about it. And do you want to know what's on that list of the insurers? What other drugs do they not allow access to?
COLLINS: Well, of course.
WILLIS: Celebrex is also on the list. So, we'll be watching this very carefully, I should, say, this story in "USA Today."
COLLINS: All right. Wow! It's certainly got everybody looking at the drugs now that they are taking, no question about that.
We want to look at the market, though, as well today.
WILLIS: Yes. You know, we were on fire last week. I am telling you. The Dow up 1.4 percent, seeing strong, strong performance. Lower oil prices, though, today could send it even higher. So, we'll be keeping an eye on that.
COLLINS: Man, those oil prices have been all the talk, too, that's for sure.
WILLIS: You bet.
COLLINS: All right. So, did anybody see "Saturday Night Live" this weekend?
HEMMER: I missed it. Was that really Ben Affleck before?
BOROWITZ: He was hilarious.
COLLINS: Yes, yes.
HEMMER: Was he really?
BOROWITZ: He was -- I was saying, it's a dead-on Carville imitation. He was hilarious. He has redeemed himself from "Gigli," I think.
COLLINS: Oh, really?
BOROWITZ: I do. And I never thought that was possible.
COLLINS: This was a better performance, yes.
BOROWITZ: I never thought that was possible. He was unbelievably funny.
HEMMER: He had to go a long way from that film, though.
BOROWITZ: That's true. It's true.
HEMMER: Thank you, Andy.
COLLINS: All right. Well, still to come, that's exactly what we're going to be talking about. After 30 years, does SNL still have the sizzle? "90-Second Pop" looks at the season premier coming up next on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: It's time now for our Monday edition of "90-Second Pop". So, with us this morning to do that, Sarah Bernard, contributing editor for "New York" magazine.
Sarah, good morning.
SARAH BERNARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: Good morning.
COLLINS: B.J. Sigesmund, staff editor for "US Weekly."
B.J., hey.
B.J. SIGESMUND, STAFF EDITOR, "US WEEKLY": Hi.
COLLINS: And CNN entertainment reporter Sibila Vargas.
Thanks, guys, for being here.
SIBILA VARGAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: Hi.
COLLINS: B.J., let's start with you. "Saturday Night Live," 30th season, was it all it was cracked up to be?
SIGESMUND: Well, I thought, first of all, the biggest moment, of course, was the new weekend anchor, weekend update duo.
COLLINS: Yes. This is a first time.
SIGESMUND: Tina Fey and...
COLLINS: Two women, right?
SIGESMUND: Right, right. And Amy Poehler.
BERNARD: High fives. High fives.
COLLINS: Come on.
BERNARD: High fives for the women.
SIGESMUND: So, I thought it was particularly inspired, because as any SNL watcher from the last few years knows, the women have far outshined the guys. Not only are Tina Fey and Amy Poehler excellent, but Maya Rudolph has gotten famous for imitating Donna Tella Versace (ph), and also Rachel Dratch, who was Debbie Downer (ph) on Saturday night. I thought that these two were terrific.
BERNARD: Now, they've actually worked together a really long time. They were both in Chicago doing improv. And Tina Fey wrote a part for Amy Poehler in "Mean Girls."
SIGESMUND: Right, right.
BERNARD: So, they sort of have a history, and I think that's partially why it worked out.
VARGAS: For anyone to fill Jimmy Fallon's (ph) shoes, I mean, that stuff is pretty -- you know...
SIGESMUND: It is a big deal.
VARGAS: And I think she did such a great job. She showed confidence. She was cool. She was collected.
SIGESMUND: Right. As opposed to Ben Affleck. Ben Affleck had his moments. I thought him as James Carville was awesome. He really nailed that part.
VARGAS: He was awesome, yes.
SIGESMUND: He clearly had rehearsed it. He clearly has met Carville many times in his political doings this summer.
VARGAS: Yes.
SIGESMUND: His opening monologue, though, with Alec Baldwin was kind of weak, I thought.
COLLINS: A little dull, yes, I agree.
SIGESMUND: The last skit was kind of weak.
VARGAS: Really?
SIGESMUND: Yes.
VARGAS: I like Alec Baldwin. I think he's growing on me as an actor. He's more approachable now. So I felt like...
BERNARD: He is sort of like their special guest. Every time they need a little thing, they invite him on "Saturday Night Live."
SIGESMUND: Oh, yes. He has done it nine times. (CROSSTALK)
BERNARD: I think he might even hold a record for that.
COLLINS: All right. Let's talk, Sarah, if we could, about this wedding that took place. We've got 55-year-old Billy Joel, his new what, wife now -- it would be a wife -- is 23 years old.
BERNARD: Fiance, girlfriend, wife. That's right.
COLLINS: Here's a picture.
BERNARD: That's their wedding shot.
COLLINS: They had a special guest at this wedding.
BERNARD: They had a bunch of special guests, actually. He -- well, somehow Alec Baldwin was in two places at once that same Saturday night. He was a guest at Billy Joel, and somehow he got on "Saturday Night Live." Donald Trump was there. I think Sting and Elton John couldn't make it, unfortunately.
COLLINS: Christie Brinkley.
BERNARD: But Christie Brinkley and her husband, Peter Cook (ph), were in the audience. And that is because Alexa Ray, who is Christie Brinkley and Billy Joel's daughter, was the maid of honor.
Now, Katie Lee, which is his new bride's name, is 23. She's a cooking student and a restaurant correspondent for a PBS show. She is obviously only four years older than Alexa.
COLLINS: Wow!
BERNARD: So, I don't know. Step-monster? What do you think?
VARGAS: I really hope it works out.
COLLINS: I was going to say, do you think it is going to last?
VARGAS: You know what? I just hope that, you know, that it defies everything and that it really works, because this is a man who has been plagued by some tragedy. There has been a lot of car crashes that he's been in, and, you know...
SIGESMUND: Not to mention substance abuse problems.
VARGAS: Substance abuse, exactly. So, I just hope that, you know, this is real love, because this is the piano man and we love him! You know, we want to see him thrive. We want to see our living legends go on gracefully.
BERNARD: And I think we're OK for celebrity weddings for a while, because they always come in threes. And so there was Kevin Costner, then there was Britney...
COLLINS: Britney, yes.
BERNARD: ... and now Billy Joel. So, I think we're done for a while. "US Weekly" can take a break.
SIGESMUND: Yes, I don't think -- well...
COLLINS: The next topic?
SIGESMUND: Yes.
BERNARD: We're never done.
SIGESMUND: We're never done.
COLLINS: Talking about fall TV now, Sibila.
VARGAS: Yes.
COLLINS: A lot of shows out there. And I'm liking this "Lost."
VARGAS: Oh, yes.
COLLINS: It's kind of...
VARGAS: Everybody is talking about it.
COLLINS: ... mysterious, to say the least.
Mysterious. You've got a little sci-fi. You've got action adventure, a little thing, you know, for the women and for the men. There's a little bit of everything. And it's J.J. Abrams who brought you "Alias." He's the creator of this. And that he is really wonderful at is captivating the audience, keeping them at the edge of their seat.
Now, it's about a group of passengers that are stranded on a deserted island, or at least they think it's deserted. It turns out that there are some mysterious creatures inhabiting the place, and they are out for blood. And not only do they have to deal with the creatures, but there is also all of the cast members seem to have, like...
COLLINS: Issues.
VARGAS: ... a lot issues and lies. And they are kind of like unraveling now.
SIGESMUND: Yes. I think there is so much humanity on the show. These people are dealing with mourning and they're in shock, and one of them going into labor. I don't like the monster plotline. I think it...
COLLINS: Do we need the monsters?
SIGESMUND: ... cheapens the whole thing to have this man-eating monster somewhere hidden in the jungle. VARGAS: They don't really need it.
SIGESMUND: I would prefer to have it without that.
VARGAS: Yes, they don't really need it.
COLLINS: Well, last time we saw a polar bear come flying through the rain forest. But I'm really not sure.
SIGESMUND: Yes, why is there a polar bear on a desert island?
BERNARD: It's like "Gilligan's Island"/horror show.
COLLINS: Yes.
VARGAS: It might become a little too strange.
BERNARD: Can we talk about "Desperate Housewives," speaking of another one out there?
COLLINS: I was just going to say.
BERNARD: I think that is such a great show. It is honestly a combination of "American Beauty" and "Six Feet Under." I think if those two things were merged, you'd get "Desperate Housewives." And I was noticing that a lot of the -- well, it's about -- there are about six friends in this town. And it starts with one of the housewives shooting herself. And then she...
COLLINS: Of course.
BERNARD: ... becomes the narrator of the rest of the series. But there is something about the way that all of these shows have started with such violence. I mean, there's the plane crash in "Lost," right?
SIGESMUND: Right.
BERNARD: There is the first scene in "Desperate Housewives."
SIGESMUND: No, that's what pulls you in.
BERNARD: I mean, is that how you have to grab...
SIGESMUND: That is how you grab people these days. I mean, there is so much competition from reality TV, which is disposable television, if you want to really pull someone into a episodic series that is going to last 13 or even 22 weeks, you really have to start off with something that's really going to grab them.
VARGAS: You know what I think if kind of strange is that "Extreme Makeover" is the show right before leading into this.
BERNARD: That was a great show last night.
VARGAS: And here I am crying on "Extreme Makeover," because I'm getting all emotional. And then I have to switch gears, you know.
BERNARD: You were crying through "Desperate Housewives."
VARGAS: Exactly.
COLLINS: What a segue.
VARGAS: I had to switch gears. Yes, what a tough segue.
COLLINS: All right, you guys, thanks so much for your insight on all of this today. Sarah Bernard, B.J. Sigesmund and Sibila Vargas, thanks again.
BERNARD: Thank you.
COLLINS: Bill -- back over to you.
HEMMER: All right, we'll get a break here. In a moment, John Kerry is getting a boost from the first debate. How real is it, though? We'll continue that debate ahead top of the hour here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Still to come, Mount St. Helens volcano experts expect something to happen and soon. A live report just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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Aired October 4, 2004 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back everyone. It's 7:30 on a Monday morning. Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING.
Two more deadly car bombings today in Baghdad coinciding with the latest offensive from U.S. and Iraqi forces. A report on that in a moment.
And we'll also talk to one author who spent a whole lot of time in Baghdad, going back to the year 2000, about how much support insurgents are getting from Iraq's general population, and how much more we're learning, too, about the insurgents, their motivation, who is behind them, et cetera.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, how complicated.
Also, Monday means "90-Second Pop." And today, the panel is checking the pulse of "Saturday Night Live." It's 30th season debuted over the weekend with Ben Affleck as guest host. Yes, that's him. We'll look at the biggest changes this season and whether or not they are working. I heard it was pretty funny. It was past my bedtime, though.
In the meantime, though, we're going to check on the stories "Now in the News" with Daryn Kagan once again at the CNN center.
Daryn -- good morning to you.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Heidi.
Israel is mounting one of its biggest operations in Gaza in four years. Sources say Israeli troops fired on Palestinian militants this morning. Some 70 Palestinians have been killed in the six days of the operation. U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and the Arab League have condemned the Israeli attacks.
There are reports of new rebel attacks this morning in northeastern India. Local media are claiming at least 60 people have been killed there in the last three days. The violence erupted Saturday with large blasts at a train station and a crowded market. Indian officials are promising to deal with the chaos.
Back here in the U.S. in Utah, prosecutors say their case against Mark Hacking is getting stronger. Hacking is accused of killing his wife last July, then dumping her body and the gun in a garbage bin. Police found her body on Friday after 33 days of searching the Salt Lake City landfill. Dental records have confirmed her identity. Mark Hacking is set to be arraigned for the murder later this month. And finally, Martha Stewart is making the most of her time as a free woman. Stewart is expected to report to a federal prison in West Virginia this week. According to the "New York Post," Stewart spent the weekend partying with friends at a wedding in the Bahamas. Getting the fun while she can. It certainly won't look like that in Alderson, West Virginia, where, Bill, as I said, she is expected to be by the end of the week.
HEMMER: Hey, why not? You know, Bahamas now.
KAGAN: If you can do it.
HEMMER: And then next March...
(CROSSTALK)
KAGAN: All right.
HEMMER: Thank you, Daryn.
There was a pair of deadly car bombs exploding earlier today in Baghdad. Brent Sadler is live in the Iraqi capital.
Brent -- what happened there?
BRENT SADLER, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Bill.
Around 16 Iraqis reportedly killed and scores of others wounded in this latest attack, a series of two attacks in the capital. Parts of the city are still under a security lockdown. And there has been sporadic gunfire amid the latest chaos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SADLER (voice over): Two powerful car bomb attacks in central districts of Baghdad, the first targeting an army recruitment center, killing around 15 and wounding at least 75 others, according to Iraq's Health Ministry.
The explosion happened near a U.S. military checkpoint outside the heavily-fortified Green Zone, home to the U.S. and British embassies. A white sports utility vehicle burst into flames amid scenes of bloodshed and panic.
The attack plan was similar to scores of other strikes on Iraq's security forces, aimed at making Iraqis afraid of recruitment into the ranks of the police and army, as well as sapping morale among those already serving.
In a second blast, Iraqi reports say bombers targeted two armored vehicles of the type used by Western security personnel and contractors in a busy commercial district. One killed and some 13 others wounded in that attack.
From the top of our hotel, we could see a large plume of black smoke. Then a brief gun battle, shots echoing across the city, as Iraqi police reportedly exchanged fire with suspected insurgents. Even as U.S.-backed Iraqi forces claim to have overwhelmed a rebel stronghold at Samarra, some 60 miles north of Baghdad, insurgents have again proved they can strike terror in the heart of the capital.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
West of Baghdad, there has been more U.S. airstrikes against the insurgents, planning the kind of attacks we have seen here in Baghdad today, airstrikes that do continue on a near daily basis -- Bill.
HEMMER: Brent Sadler from Baghdad this morning.
Veteran journalist Jon Lee Anderson has reported extensively from Iraq for "The New Yorker." He covers the final days of the Saddam Hussein regime in a new book. It's called "The Fall of Baghdad." And Jon Lee Anderson is my guest now here in New York.
Good morning to you. Pleasure seeing you in person.
JON LEE ANDERSON, "THE NEW YORKER": Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: Let's first talk about Samarra over the weekend. You suggested this could be a tipping point in Iraq. How so?
ANDERSON: Well, it could be. I mean, this was the first time that there was a raid of this type by the U.S. in such a way where significant numbers of Iraqi forces, newly-trained Iraqi forces joined the Americans in an assault on an insurgent-held town.
Now, until now, we've had previous assaults like this, usually just the Marines or the Americans and a very few number of Iraqi auxiliaries. And they have tended to halt the fighting with political negotiations, retreat, and then before long we hear that the town is in the hands of the insurgents again and more retrenched than ever.
So, I think the jury is out on this one. I think it's a key test case for the military's strategy of wresting back control of the insurgent-held towns. Samarra well might be one of the more easier targets, which is why they have chosen to do it now. Fallujah being a much bigger and much more difficult target. But I think we have to watch to see exactly what the Americans and the Iraqis do in Samarra in the coming days.
HEMMER: When it comes to the insurgents in general, how much do you not understand about the makeup of the insurgents, the motivation behind them?
ANDERSON: Well, the motivation is quite clear. And, of course, there are shades of gray. You have most of them are fighting to get rid of the -- as they see it -- foreign military occupation of their country. Some, a small group I think, would wish to see some semblance of a Baathist regime back in power, people that were displaced from power. But there's a lot of young men who joined the cause simply out of a sense of humiliation, nothing better to do, outrage over abuses apparently committed by American troops, the kind of raids conducted. And then, of course, you have you the Islamist extreme.
All of them have a tactical alliance, if you will, in a common aim, which is to expel the foreign invader. The actual nuts and bolts of how they collaborate with one another are difficult to know. Our own intelligence community doesn't really know.
HEMMER: What about for regular Iraqis? How much support are the insurgents getting from them? And one thing we are always curious about, where is the outage on behalf of the Iraqi people when 35 schoolchildren were blown up last week?
ANDERSON: There is out rage. And this could be -- that is another potential tipping point in the psyche of the Iraqis. You have to -- we have to recognize that insurgents -- call them what you want -- terrorists cannot exist without -- they are the fish in the Iraqi pond. Zarqawi and his head-chopping militants could not be operating in Iraq if it weren't for the goodwill and the support of a passive but tacitly cooperative Iraqi population, wherever he is hiding.
There is a widespread resentment against the American occupation and the way things have been conducted in Iraq, which have allowed this situation to come about. If Zarqawi and his lot begin -- are seen to be hurting the Iraqis even more than they are hurting the Americans, that's the potential tipping point in terms of cooperation by Iraqis toward his type of people. We could be seeing possibly a beginning of that.
HEMMER: I've got 20 more questions for you, and I'm afraid we're out of time. Excellent book.
ANDERSON: Thank you.
HEMMER: Congratulations to you and your work. And if you go back, be safe, OK?
ANDERSON: Thank you, Bill.
HEMMER: Jon Lee Anderson here in New York -- Heidi.
COLLINS: We want to take a moment now to check on the weather.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COLLINS: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, did health insurers have concerns about Vioxx even before it was pulled from the market? We'll talk about that coming up.
HEMMER: Also, a bottle of red, a bottle of white. The piano man walks down the aisle again. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right, welcome back, everyone. Jack is on vacation this week. Andy Borowitz is in.
Did you see the style section of "The New York Times"? Enough of that.
How are you? Good morning again.
ANDY BOROWITZ, HUMORIST: It's good to be here.
HEMMER: Yes, it's good see you, too.
BOROWITZ: We have got an amazing question. It's debate week, of course. And tomorrow night is the much-anticipated debate between Vice President Dick Cheney and Senator John Edwards. But in my fantasy league, there would be a whole different kind of debate going on. I'm proposing a debate between the first lady and her feisty challenger.
So, our question is: If Laura Bush debated Teresa Heinz Kerry, who would win and why? And, boy, are we getting tons of interesting responses.
Tammy from Midland, Michigan, writes: "What would they debate over? Picking out the White House china? Bush shows more class in public, but overall Kerry has more to offer in the real word."
OK.
Mary from Bainbridge, Georgia, says: "I cannot fathom Mrs. Kerry as first lady. She's not even a lady. High five for Mrs. Bush to win every time."
Georgia is not a swing state.
Roger from Cola Sparta, Tennessee, writes: "Teresa Heinz Kerry would win hands down. Americans like real flavor, not a generic substitute. She is sassy and isn't afraid to put rag reporters in their place, like the newspaper guy she told to stuff it."
I think she used a slightly different phrase, but that's OK.
And Weldon, of course, from New Brunswick, Canada, writes: "Teresa would be like the 'catsup' bottle, where you have to shake for it a while to get that first drop."
And I think a good issue in this debate would be ketchup versus catsup. What is it? Really.
HEMMER: I think you're onto something.
BOROWITZ: Yes, what is it? I think it's ketchup, actually.
HEMMER: Or you could take that knife and slide it up there and make that little air pocket...
(CROSSTALK)
BOROWITZ: Yes, that's an issue, too.
COLLINS: Yes, there is definitely a technique, no question about it.
All right, Andy, thanks for that.
We want to talk now to Gerri Willis. She is in for Andy Serwer this morning. And talking about the withdrawal of Vioxx from the market and how much Merck may have known -- actually what health insurers may have known about the drug.
GERRI WILLIS, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS: That is what's so interesting here. A lot of health insurers had already restricted access to Vioxx. Here's what was going on. Kaiser, the group health, even the Veteran's Administration, they were not allowing people access to this drug. They had concerns mainly that the drug was overused.
You know, this is a painkiller that Merck voluntarily recalled because long-term use may promote the risk of heart attack. Big concerns about it. And do you want to know what's on that list of the insurers? What other drugs do they not allow access to?
COLLINS: Well, of course.
WILLIS: Celebrex is also on the list. So, we'll be watching this very carefully, I should, say, this story in "USA Today."
COLLINS: All right. Wow! It's certainly got everybody looking at the drugs now that they are taking, no question about that.
We want to look at the market, though, as well today.
WILLIS: Yes. You know, we were on fire last week. I am telling you. The Dow up 1.4 percent, seeing strong, strong performance. Lower oil prices, though, today could send it even higher. So, we'll be keeping an eye on that.
COLLINS: Man, those oil prices have been all the talk, too, that's for sure.
WILLIS: You bet.
COLLINS: All right. So, did anybody see "Saturday Night Live" this weekend?
HEMMER: I missed it. Was that really Ben Affleck before?
BOROWITZ: He was hilarious.
COLLINS: Yes, yes.
HEMMER: Was he really?
BOROWITZ: He was -- I was saying, it's a dead-on Carville imitation. He was hilarious. He has redeemed himself from "Gigli," I think.
COLLINS: Oh, really?
BOROWITZ: I do. And I never thought that was possible.
COLLINS: This was a better performance, yes.
BOROWITZ: I never thought that was possible. He was unbelievably funny.
HEMMER: He had to go a long way from that film, though.
BOROWITZ: That's true. It's true.
HEMMER: Thank you, Andy.
COLLINS: All right. Well, still to come, that's exactly what we're going to be talking about. After 30 years, does SNL still have the sizzle? "90-Second Pop" looks at the season premier coming up next on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: It's time now for our Monday edition of "90-Second Pop". So, with us this morning to do that, Sarah Bernard, contributing editor for "New York" magazine.
Sarah, good morning.
SARAH BERNARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: Good morning.
COLLINS: B.J. Sigesmund, staff editor for "US Weekly."
B.J., hey.
B.J. SIGESMUND, STAFF EDITOR, "US WEEKLY": Hi.
COLLINS: And CNN entertainment reporter Sibila Vargas.
Thanks, guys, for being here.
SIBILA VARGAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: Hi.
COLLINS: B.J., let's start with you. "Saturday Night Live," 30th season, was it all it was cracked up to be?
SIGESMUND: Well, I thought, first of all, the biggest moment, of course, was the new weekend anchor, weekend update duo.
COLLINS: Yes. This is a first time.
SIGESMUND: Tina Fey and...
COLLINS: Two women, right?
SIGESMUND: Right, right. And Amy Poehler.
BERNARD: High fives. High fives.
COLLINS: Come on.
BERNARD: High fives for the women.
SIGESMUND: So, I thought it was particularly inspired, because as any SNL watcher from the last few years knows, the women have far outshined the guys. Not only are Tina Fey and Amy Poehler excellent, but Maya Rudolph has gotten famous for imitating Donna Tella Versace (ph), and also Rachel Dratch, who was Debbie Downer (ph) on Saturday night. I thought that these two were terrific.
BERNARD: Now, they've actually worked together a really long time. They were both in Chicago doing improv. And Tina Fey wrote a part for Amy Poehler in "Mean Girls."
SIGESMUND: Right, right.
BERNARD: So, they sort of have a history, and I think that's partially why it worked out.
VARGAS: For anyone to fill Jimmy Fallon's (ph) shoes, I mean, that stuff is pretty -- you know...
SIGESMUND: It is a big deal.
VARGAS: And I think she did such a great job. She showed confidence. She was cool. She was collected.
SIGESMUND: Right. As opposed to Ben Affleck. Ben Affleck had his moments. I thought him as James Carville was awesome. He really nailed that part.
VARGAS: He was awesome, yes.
SIGESMUND: He clearly had rehearsed it. He clearly has met Carville many times in his political doings this summer.
VARGAS: Yes.
SIGESMUND: His opening monologue, though, with Alec Baldwin was kind of weak, I thought.
COLLINS: A little dull, yes, I agree.
SIGESMUND: The last skit was kind of weak.
VARGAS: Really?
SIGESMUND: Yes.
VARGAS: I like Alec Baldwin. I think he's growing on me as an actor. He's more approachable now. So I felt like...
BERNARD: He is sort of like their special guest. Every time they need a little thing, they invite him on "Saturday Night Live."
SIGESMUND: Oh, yes. He has done it nine times. (CROSSTALK)
BERNARD: I think he might even hold a record for that.
COLLINS: All right. Let's talk, Sarah, if we could, about this wedding that took place. We've got 55-year-old Billy Joel, his new what, wife now -- it would be a wife -- is 23 years old.
BERNARD: Fiance, girlfriend, wife. That's right.
COLLINS: Here's a picture.
BERNARD: That's their wedding shot.
COLLINS: They had a special guest at this wedding.
BERNARD: They had a bunch of special guests, actually. He -- well, somehow Alec Baldwin was in two places at once that same Saturday night. He was a guest at Billy Joel, and somehow he got on "Saturday Night Live." Donald Trump was there. I think Sting and Elton John couldn't make it, unfortunately.
COLLINS: Christie Brinkley.
BERNARD: But Christie Brinkley and her husband, Peter Cook (ph), were in the audience. And that is because Alexa Ray, who is Christie Brinkley and Billy Joel's daughter, was the maid of honor.
Now, Katie Lee, which is his new bride's name, is 23. She's a cooking student and a restaurant correspondent for a PBS show. She is obviously only four years older than Alexa.
COLLINS: Wow!
BERNARD: So, I don't know. Step-monster? What do you think?
VARGAS: I really hope it works out.
COLLINS: I was going to say, do you think it is going to last?
VARGAS: You know what? I just hope that, you know, that it defies everything and that it really works, because this is a man who has been plagued by some tragedy. There has been a lot of car crashes that he's been in, and, you know...
SIGESMUND: Not to mention substance abuse problems.
VARGAS: Substance abuse, exactly. So, I just hope that, you know, this is real love, because this is the piano man and we love him! You know, we want to see him thrive. We want to see our living legends go on gracefully.
BERNARD: And I think we're OK for celebrity weddings for a while, because they always come in threes. And so there was Kevin Costner, then there was Britney...
COLLINS: Britney, yes.
BERNARD: ... and now Billy Joel. So, I think we're done for a while. "US Weekly" can take a break.
SIGESMUND: Yes, I don't think -- well...
COLLINS: The next topic?
SIGESMUND: Yes.
BERNARD: We're never done.
SIGESMUND: We're never done.
COLLINS: Talking about fall TV now, Sibila.
VARGAS: Yes.
COLLINS: A lot of shows out there. And I'm liking this "Lost."
VARGAS: Oh, yes.
COLLINS: It's kind of...
VARGAS: Everybody is talking about it.
COLLINS: ... mysterious, to say the least.
Mysterious. You've got a little sci-fi. You've got action adventure, a little thing, you know, for the women and for the men. There's a little bit of everything. And it's J.J. Abrams who brought you "Alias." He's the creator of this. And that he is really wonderful at is captivating the audience, keeping them at the edge of their seat.
Now, it's about a group of passengers that are stranded on a deserted island, or at least they think it's deserted. It turns out that there are some mysterious creatures inhabiting the place, and they are out for blood. And not only do they have to deal with the creatures, but there is also all of the cast members seem to have, like...
COLLINS: Issues.
VARGAS: ... a lot issues and lies. And they are kind of like unraveling now.
SIGESMUND: Yes. I think there is so much humanity on the show. These people are dealing with mourning and they're in shock, and one of them going into labor. I don't like the monster plotline. I think it...
COLLINS: Do we need the monsters?
SIGESMUND: ... cheapens the whole thing to have this man-eating monster somewhere hidden in the jungle. VARGAS: They don't really need it.
SIGESMUND: I would prefer to have it without that.
VARGAS: Yes, they don't really need it.
COLLINS: Well, last time we saw a polar bear come flying through the rain forest. But I'm really not sure.
SIGESMUND: Yes, why is there a polar bear on a desert island?
BERNARD: It's like "Gilligan's Island"/horror show.
COLLINS: Yes.
VARGAS: It might become a little too strange.
BERNARD: Can we talk about "Desperate Housewives," speaking of another one out there?
COLLINS: I was just going to say.
BERNARD: I think that is such a great show. It is honestly a combination of "American Beauty" and "Six Feet Under." I think if those two things were merged, you'd get "Desperate Housewives." And I was noticing that a lot of the -- well, it's about -- there are about six friends in this town. And it starts with one of the housewives shooting herself. And then she...
COLLINS: Of course.
BERNARD: ... becomes the narrator of the rest of the series. But there is something about the way that all of these shows have started with such violence. I mean, there's the plane crash in "Lost," right?
SIGESMUND: Right.
BERNARD: There is the first scene in "Desperate Housewives."
SIGESMUND: No, that's what pulls you in.
BERNARD: I mean, is that how you have to grab...
SIGESMUND: That is how you grab people these days. I mean, there is so much competition from reality TV, which is disposable television, if you want to really pull someone into a episodic series that is going to last 13 or even 22 weeks, you really have to start off with something that's really going to grab them.
VARGAS: You know what I think if kind of strange is that "Extreme Makeover" is the show right before leading into this.
BERNARD: That was a great show last night.
VARGAS: And here I am crying on "Extreme Makeover," because I'm getting all emotional. And then I have to switch gears, you know.
BERNARD: You were crying through "Desperate Housewives."
VARGAS: Exactly.
COLLINS: What a segue.
VARGAS: I had to switch gears. Yes, what a tough segue.
COLLINS: All right, you guys, thanks so much for your insight on all of this today. Sarah Bernard, B.J. Sigesmund and Sibila Vargas, thanks again.
BERNARD: Thank you.
COLLINS: Bill -- back over to you.
HEMMER: All right, we'll get a break here. In a moment, John Kerry is getting a boost from the first debate. How real is it, though? We'll continue that debate ahead top of the hour here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Still to come, Mount St. Helens volcano experts expect something to happen and soon. A live report just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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