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CNN Live At Daybreak
'America's Voice'; 'Today's Talker'; Better Brew?
Aired October 05, 2004 - 06:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well good morning from the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta. I'm Betty Nguyen in for Carol Costello.
"Now in the News."
A roadside bomb attack kills one American soldier and wounds two others near Baghdad. The military says an explosive device blew up Monday as a military convoy passed by.
It's the VPs turn tonight. Vice President Dick Cheney and Senator John Edwards square off in their one and only debate. They'll be questioned on both domestic and foreign policy.
Baseball's post-season begins today with a triple header. At 1:00 p.m. Eastern, the St. Louis Cardinals host the L.A. Dodgers. At 4:00, the Boston Red Sox try to get by the Anaheim Angels. And at 8:00 p.m., the defending American League champions New York Yankees host the Minnesota Twins.
(WEATHER REPORT)
NGUYEN: Well, less than a month to go, 28 days and counting to be exact, until the presidential election. And the race is shaping up to be a dead heat.
Meantime, people in Illinois and New Mexico are facing a deadline today to register to vote. Registrations deadlines passed in more than a dozen states on Monday.
The political arena, you are looking at a live picture -- at least we'll get that up for you shortly -- of the site of tonight's vice presidential debate. It is -- there it is -- hosted by Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio. The Buckeye State is seen as a key battleground.
So, what do voters think of the vice presidential candidates and their debate? Gallup Poll editor-in-chief Frank Newport has some answers, and he joins us now live from Princeton, New Jersey.
Good morning to you.
FRANK NEWPORT, GALLUP POLL EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Good morning, Betty.
Interestingly, John Kerry -- excuse me -- John Edwards -- this is the vice presidential debate tonight, of course -- has the more favorable image than Dick Cheney. But that's not surprising at this point going into the debate. Cheney has been around for four years and has a lot of negative baggage: 48 favorable, 44 unfavorable. So, he's roughly tied in the eyes of the American public.
Edwards is new. We haven't seen a lot of him even though he's been campaigning: 56 favorable, only 30 unfavorable. You can see what happens when you're new on the scene. You still have a favorable image.
It will be interesting for us to see what happens coming out of tonight's debate. But Edwards has the image advantage going in.
But when we asked voters just over the weekend, Betty, who will do the better job tonight, Dick Cheney or John Edwards? Both of them are interesting characters, a trial lawyer here and a very experienced politician here. Dead even: 40 percent say Cheney will do better, 42 Edwards. Basically, people in both parties just choose their man.
We'll see, again, what happens in the next several days after the debate -- Betty.
NGUYEN: Oh, yes, it's going to be an interesting match-up. Frank, Iraq is the single-most pressing international issue of the moment. So, where do Americans stand on Iraq?
NEWPORT: Well, as is true with so much else, in the month of September Americans became more positive about the situation in Iraq. But now, those attitudes have come back to being more of what they were in August.
Now, follow me carefully. This is a basic question: Was it a mistake to send troops to Iraq? Now, the percent who say yes, it was, is the bottom line. So, in September right after the Republican Convention, only 38 percent said yes, it was a mistake. In other words, that's more positive for Iraq. Those numbers have come up. And now, over the weekend it's virtually dead even.
So, America is split right down the middle where it was back in August. Half say it was a mistake, half say it was not.
NGUYEN: Hey, Frank, during Thursday night's debate, Senator Kerry said that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11; Osama bin Laden did. Do Americans agree with him?
NEWPORT: Well, this is -- you know, Rumsfeld has been quoted this morning for some comments he made about that yesterday. This is fascinating.
It depends on where you are politically. Republicans have bought into that assertion. Sixty-two percent -- and this is very, very important -- 62 percent of Republicans nationally say yes, Saddam Hussein was personally involved in 9/11. So, they had bought into what the Bush administration was asserting, at least initially, as Americans went to war.
If you're an Independent, 65 percent say no, no connection between Saddam and 9/11. Sixty-five percent of Democrats say no connection between Saddam and 9/11.
So, it's very political. But at the moment, Republicans are agreeing, at least two-thirds of them, with that assertion.
NGUYEN: Frank Newport, Gallup's editor-in-chief, as always, thank you.
Well, we are talking rules on "Today's Talker" -- vice presidential debate rules that is. John Edwards and Dick Cheney will be sitting at a table on chairs of equal height. There will be 16 questions split between foreign and domestic policy. The candidates get two minutes per answer and 90 seconds for rebuttals.
Now, under those rules, who is the favorite tonight? You won't get the same answer from our guests this morning.
Joining us now from Chicago, radio talk show host, Nancy Skinner. And here in Atlanta, also a radio talk show host, Neal Boortz.
Good morning to you both.
NEAL BOORTZ, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: How are you?
NANCY SKINNER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Good morning. Good morning, Neal.
BOORTZ: Hello, Nancy.
NGUYEN: Well, let's start with you, Neal. Looking at the polls, are you surprised that it's a dead heat now following the first presidential debate?
BOORTZ: No, not after that debate I'm not surprised. And Bush's performance -- I think the people that say that Bush won on substance and Kerry on style, maybe they have a point. But many of the voters in this country, not being the brightest or the sharpest knives in the drawer, will go for style over substance every time.
So, I'm not the least bit surprised that this is called a dead heat at this time.
NGUYEN: And, Nancy, OK, so Kerry has gained some ground following that. Does that mean Dick Cheney has a lot of ground to cover tonight in this debate?
SKINNER: Oh, yes. Humpty-Dumpty has fallen from the wall. It's going to be very difficult to put him back together again.
But let me go back to what Neal said. This was not just about style over substance. I think most polls show that Kerry -- and most viewers polled thought Kerry had a great command of the facts. And President Bush seemed tongue-tied. He didn't seem like he could even answer the questions. It wasn't so much about style; he didn't seem like he knew the facts.
And that was, for the first time, you know, this is -- there are no campaign commercials. Karl Rove wasn't sitting under the table. This was a side-by-side comparison of the competencies of these two men. And that's, I think, why we saw the result we did.
NGUYEN: So, let's stick...
BOORTZ: Nancy, you have a fixation on Karl Rove being under tables, don't you? We need to look into that a little bit.
SKINNER: It scares me. It scares me.
NGUYEN: You guys are off to the races. OK, let's kind of focus right now on the vice presidential debate tonight.
Neal, let's talk to you for a second. Who has more to lose?
BOORTZ: Well, oh, I mean, John Edwards. What does he -- he has a guaranteed Senate seat. So, he has basically nothing to lose. The one with something to lose is Dick Cheney. And he's up against a trial lawyer. I mean, a glib trial lawyer. I'm a glib trial lawyer. And it doesn't matter what the facts are. If we have a jury in the palm of our hand, we're going to bring them over to our side.
NGUYEN: But Cheney is an experienced one-on-one debater. Doesn't he have a bit of an advantage in this?
BOORTZ: Here's an odd thing for you. In the last campaign, we heard a lot about gravitas. Now, obviously when it comes to Edwards and Cheney, Cheney is the one with gravitas, and all of a sudden it's not important to the media anymore.
I think that Cheney is a policy-walk. He has the facts on his side. He knows the topics, but he is not -- he doesn't have a great head of hair. I share that with him. And that's also going to hurt him in the debate. Believe it or not, the hair counts.
SKINNER: You know what, Neal? I wouldn't worry so much about Mr. Cheney and what his fate will hold if he loses. He is "Mr. special interest," and he can go back to Halliburton, where he's still getting...
NGUYEN: Oh, there's the "H" word. That's going to come up tonight.
BOORTZ: Oh! And didn't we know...
SKINNER: ... a special interest break.
BOORTZ: Didn't we know Halliburton was special interest?
SKINNER: Of course. Let me say this. Let me just say this.
BOORTZ: Trial lawyers, Nancy?
SKINNER: Let me -- let me say this. I'm not worried about either of them in their own personal fortunes.
Here's what Dick Cheney needs to do to make up ground. He needs to scare people, because that's what Dick Cheney does best. He gets out and says ridiculous things like al Qaeda would vote for John Kerry, because they really don't have anything on substance on the issues themselves.
And so, what Dick Cheney does so well is make statements like was reported in "The New York Times" that with absolute certainty, these aluminum tubes are meant for nuclear weapons. And guess what? He was wrong.
So, he has to just go back to his old standard card of making Osama bin Laden real important to John Kerry and scare the heck out of people.
BOORTZ: Oh, you're pulling all of the tricks out of the bag, the Willy Horton bag. This is wonderful stuff, Nancy.
Now, about the aluminum tubes, again -- and this is something the left has a hard time coming to grips with -- the information was what he said he believed to be true at the time he said it. After the fact, if you get some different information, well, then maybe your story changes a little bit.
NGUYEN: All right, let's...
SKINNER: According to "The New York Times," there was a raging debate...
BOORTZ: Yes, OK.
SKINNER: ... and both sides were involved in it, and they knew it was a raging debate. There's no way he didn't know there was a huge debate...
NGUYEN: All right, let's move now to today's "Washington Post," where...
BOORTZ: Yes.
NGUYEN: ... Ambassador Paul Bremer talked about the looting in Iraq. And he said -- quote -- "We paid a big price for not stopping it, because it established an atmosphere of lawlessness. We never had enough troops on the ground."
Now, does this play right into Kerry's argument that the U.S. really didn't have a post-invasion plan? And let's start with you, Nancy.
SKINNER: Absolutely. And with friends like these, I mean, this was a guy who was on the ground from the get-go. And now that he's free to speak, what is he saying? He has to say -- agree with Eric Sinsheki (ph), the general who said we probably needed 200,000 troops. And he was laughed at and ridiculed and ultimately retired for those comments. And that was the crux of the problem that they did not make a plan for the peace. And so, our soldiers, unfortunately, are still paying for that lack of planning.
BOORTZ: Well, as the man said, war is a series of catastrophes that end in a victory. Yes, the looting did have a very adverse effect on any sort of an atmosphere of law and order.
The number of troops had really nothing to do with that. What the troops were allowed and what they were not allowed to do had a lot to do with that. If the troops had been allowed under our policies to go out there at the beginning and put down this looting with deadly force if necessary, then the situation might have been different.
I think that was a tactical mistake. But it really had nothing to do with the number of troops on the ground. It had...
NGUYEN: All right, we're going to have to leave it there unfortunately.
BOORTZ: ... just what they were allowed to do.
NGUYEN: We are out of time. But, Neal Boortz and Nancy Skinner, we thank you for your time this morning. Always fun to listen to you both.
SKINNER: Thanks, Neal. Bye, Neal.
BOORTZ: Next week, Nancy.
NGUYEN: Yes. Face off again next week.
Still to come right here on DAYBREAK, beer that gives you a boost sound far-fetched? Well, one company doesn't think so.
And, OK, we know the really important battle is between Bush and Kerry. But don't you want to hear about the drama brewing between the "Rocketman" and the "Material Girl?" That's ahead.
But first, here's a look at what else is making news on this Tuesday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: It's time now to check in with Bill Hemmer, who is in Cleveland for a look at what's coming up "AMERICAN MORNING."
Good morning to you -- Bill.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, Cleveland. How are you, Betty? Good morning.
The VPs go at it tonight. Who has the edge in that debate? We will hear from a number of analysts, including Carlos Watson, with me here in northern Ohio. Mary Matalin with the Bush campaign, Joe Lockhart for the Kerry campaign. What we need to look out for later tonight? We'll talk about that.
Also, this statement from Paul Bremer, the former civilian administrator in Iraq, is now saying the U.S. did not have enough troops to keep the peace in that country and to stop the looting in the short days after Baghdad fell. We'll talk about that.
Volcano alert continues, Mount St. Helens is putting on a spectacular display. We will go there live also and find out what we expect today. So, we'll have it all for you at the top of the hour live in Cleveland. Betty, we'll see you then, OK?
NGUYEN: You're supposed to say Cleveland rocks! You missed it, Bill.
HEMMER: Always.
NGUYEN: OK.
HEMMER: That's right.
NGUYEN: All right.
HEMMER: The Rock 'N' Roll Hall of Fame right here on the banks of Lake Erie.
NGUYEN: Absolutely. Thanks.
HEMMER: See you, Betty.
NGUYEN: All right, see you.
Attention Red Bull fans. Anheuser-Busch is set to launch a new beer with extra kick.
Carrie Lee has the story from the Nasdaq Marketsite in Times Square.
And you've already had, what, three Red Bulls already this morning?
CARRIE LEE, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we need a little mini refrigerator right here, Betty.
A new concoction from Anheuser-Busch, this is a fruity-smelling beer of sorts. It's going to be spiked with caffeine, guarana and ginseng. Guarana, by the way, is something that's used in Brazil. It's a caffeine-bearing herb and comes from Brazil.
And what Anheuser-Busch is doing here is clearly going after the Red Bull set, those 20-something consumers looking for something zippy in their drinks. And there is quite a bit of alcohol to go along with the caffeine here. You can see, 6.6 percent alcohol by volume, quite a bit more than the 3 percent or so that the regular beer sold in the U.S. has.
The price here is going to be a little bit higher than Budweiser as a premium product.
What's it going to taste like? Well, B to the E, and that's the name of this drink, is slightly sweet but tart, coming in the aromas of blackberry, raspberry and cherry. B to the E is the name, E standing for extra. And this is going to debut in November. So, we'll see if they can give Red Bull a kick.
That is the latest from here -- Betty.
NGUYEN: B to the E on the rocks. OK.
LEE: That's right.
NGUYEN: Carrie Lee, thank you.
Well, Elton John is at it again. Last month, he railed against photographers in Taiwan, calling them "vile pigs." But now it seems Sir Elton has taken a dislike to Madonna. At London's Q Awards, John made fun of Madonna's nomination for a best live act.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELTON JOHN, WON SONGWRITING AWARD: Madonna best (EXPLETIVE DELETED) live act (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Since when has lip-synching been live? Sorry about that. But I think everyone who lip-synchs in public on stage when you've paid, like, $75 to see them should be shot. Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: My! Well, Madonna doesn't seem to be taking those comments too seriously. She says she really does sing on stage and wants Elton to know that he is still on her Christmas card list. But don't expect him to apologize. Why? Because sorry seems to be the hardest word, of course.
How quickly can you name the running mates from the last four presidential elections? Is that with our help or without the help -- or is that with or without the help of the Internet? Yes, that's what I'm trying to say. Coming up, a look at vice presidential debates from the past. How much do these things really matter?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Well, they can be mean. They can be sweet. They can downright funny. Vice presidential debates have run the gamut throughout American history.
CNN national correspondent Bruce Morton takes a glimpse into the past.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BERNARD SHAW, MODERATOR: A candidate shall have...
BRUCE MORTON, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Vice presidential debates, we haven't always had them. John Kennedy and Richard Nixon debated in 1960, for instance. But their running mates, Lyndon Johnson and Henry Cabot Lodge, did not. They can be mean sometimes. Bob Dole, Gerald Ford's running mate in 1976, denouncing Democrat wars.
SEN. BOB DOLE (R), FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I figured it up the other day, if we added up the killed and wounded in Democrat wars in this century, it would be about 1.6 million Americans. And that could fill the city of Detroit.
MORTON: Remember Geraldine Ferraro in 1984 lecturing then Vice President George Bush?
REP. GERALDINE FERRARO (D), FMR. VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I almost resent, Vice President Bush, your patronizing attitude that you have to teach me about foreign policy.
MORTON: Sometimes they're just kind of sweet. Admiral James Stockdale, Ross Perot's running mate in 1992, a veteran, a Vietnam POW; clearly not a politician.
ADM. JAMES STOCKDALE, (REF.), FMR. VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Who am I? Why am I here?
MORTON: Vice President Cheney, who's been an attack dog this time, cursing the Democratic senator, suggesting voting for John Kerry would trigger more terrorist attacks, was gentle in his 2000 debate with Joe Lieberman. The sharpest moments were soft one-liners, like this one, suggesting how successful Cheney had been as a businessman.
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D-CT.), FMR. VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can see my wife, and I think she's thinking, gee, I wish he would go out into the private sector.
RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I'm going to try to help you do that, Joe.
LIEBERMAN: No.
MORTON: Do vice presidential debates matter? Here's perhaps the most memorable exchange of recent years: Lloyd Bentsen attacking the first President Bush's No. 2, Dan Quayle, after Quayle compared his experience to presidential candidate John Kennedy.
SEN. LLOYD BENTSEN (D), FMR. VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy.
MORTON: Devastating? Well, viewers thought Bentsen won the debate, sure. But when a "Los Angeles Times" poll asked, would the VPs' debate affect how you vote, 79 percent, 4 out of 5, said no.
People vote for president. And unless something really unusual happens, that will probably be true this time, too.
Bruce Morton, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It's time to give away the mug from yesterday. Here you go. That DAYBREAK mug may soon be sitting on your shelf or something.
NGUYEN: Lucky person.
MYERS: You bet. When will the Nobel Peace Prize be announced? The answer to that one is Friday. And who was the pilot of the aircraft competing for the X-Prize? And that was Mike Melville (ph). And obviously you probably know by now he did make it up and back.
The winner, Christopher Helgeson from Cincinnati, Ohio. Christopher, congratulations.
NGUYEN: Yes.
MYERS: This DAYBREAK mug will be sitting on your shelf in the next six to eight weeks, because shipping and handling will be included.
Here you go, the DAYBREAK question of the day for you now for today. Tuesday, today, is the deadline for voters in which two states? You have to register in which two states right now for today. And the spacecraft in which Gordon Cooper set a space endurance record? We'll name the winner tomorrow.
NGUYEN: And that does it for us. Thanks so much for watching. Now it's on to CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING." Have a great day.
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Aired October 5, 2004 - 06:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well good morning from the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta. I'm Betty Nguyen in for Carol Costello.
"Now in the News."
A roadside bomb attack kills one American soldier and wounds two others near Baghdad. The military says an explosive device blew up Monday as a military convoy passed by.
It's the VPs turn tonight. Vice President Dick Cheney and Senator John Edwards square off in their one and only debate. They'll be questioned on both domestic and foreign policy.
Baseball's post-season begins today with a triple header. At 1:00 p.m. Eastern, the St. Louis Cardinals host the L.A. Dodgers. At 4:00, the Boston Red Sox try to get by the Anaheim Angels. And at 8:00 p.m., the defending American League champions New York Yankees host the Minnesota Twins.
(WEATHER REPORT)
NGUYEN: Well, less than a month to go, 28 days and counting to be exact, until the presidential election. And the race is shaping up to be a dead heat.
Meantime, people in Illinois and New Mexico are facing a deadline today to register to vote. Registrations deadlines passed in more than a dozen states on Monday.
The political arena, you are looking at a live picture -- at least we'll get that up for you shortly -- of the site of tonight's vice presidential debate. It is -- there it is -- hosted by Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio. The Buckeye State is seen as a key battleground.
So, what do voters think of the vice presidential candidates and their debate? Gallup Poll editor-in-chief Frank Newport has some answers, and he joins us now live from Princeton, New Jersey.
Good morning to you.
FRANK NEWPORT, GALLUP POLL EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Good morning, Betty.
Interestingly, John Kerry -- excuse me -- John Edwards -- this is the vice presidential debate tonight, of course -- has the more favorable image than Dick Cheney. But that's not surprising at this point going into the debate. Cheney has been around for four years and has a lot of negative baggage: 48 favorable, 44 unfavorable. So, he's roughly tied in the eyes of the American public.
Edwards is new. We haven't seen a lot of him even though he's been campaigning: 56 favorable, only 30 unfavorable. You can see what happens when you're new on the scene. You still have a favorable image.
It will be interesting for us to see what happens coming out of tonight's debate. But Edwards has the image advantage going in.
But when we asked voters just over the weekend, Betty, who will do the better job tonight, Dick Cheney or John Edwards? Both of them are interesting characters, a trial lawyer here and a very experienced politician here. Dead even: 40 percent say Cheney will do better, 42 Edwards. Basically, people in both parties just choose their man.
We'll see, again, what happens in the next several days after the debate -- Betty.
NGUYEN: Oh, yes, it's going to be an interesting match-up. Frank, Iraq is the single-most pressing international issue of the moment. So, where do Americans stand on Iraq?
NEWPORT: Well, as is true with so much else, in the month of September Americans became more positive about the situation in Iraq. But now, those attitudes have come back to being more of what they were in August.
Now, follow me carefully. This is a basic question: Was it a mistake to send troops to Iraq? Now, the percent who say yes, it was, is the bottom line. So, in September right after the Republican Convention, only 38 percent said yes, it was a mistake. In other words, that's more positive for Iraq. Those numbers have come up. And now, over the weekend it's virtually dead even.
So, America is split right down the middle where it was back in August. Half say it was a mistake, half say it was not.
NGUYEN: Hey, Frank, during Thursday night's debate, Senator Kerry said that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11; Osama bin Laden did. Do Americans agree with him?
NEWPORT: Well, this is -- you know, Rumsfeld has been quoted this morning for some comments he made about that yesterday. This is fascinating.
It depends on where you are politically. Republicans have bought into that assertion. Sixty-two percent -- and this is very, very important -- 62 percent of Republicans nationally say yes, Saddam Hussein was personally involved in 9/11. So, they had bought into what the Bush administration was asserting, at least initially, as Americans went to war.
If you're an Independent, 65 percent say no, no connection between Saddam and 9/11. Sixty-five percent of Democrats say no connection between Saddam and 9/11.
So, it's very political. But at the moment, Republicans are agreeing, at least two-thirds of them, with that assertion.
NGUYEN: Frank Newport, Gallup's editor-in-chief, as always, thank you.
Well, we are talking rules on "Today's Talker" -- vice presidential debate rules that is. John Edwards and Dick Cheney will be sitting at a table on chairs of equal height. There will be 16 questions split between foreign and domestic policy. The candidates get two minutes per answer and 90 seconds for rebuttals.
Now, under those rules, who is the favorite tonight? You won't get the same answer from our guests this morning.
Joining us now from Chicago, radio talk show host, Nancy Skinner. And here in Atlanta, also a radio talk show host, Neal Boortz.
Good morning to you both.
NEAL BOORTZ, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: How are you?
NANCY SKINNER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Good morning. Good morning, Neal.
BOORTZ: Hello, Nancy.
NGUYEN: Well, let's start with you, Neal. Looking at the polls, are you surprised that it's a dead heat now following the first presidential debate?
BOORTZ: No, not after that debate I'm not surprised. And Bush's performance -- I think the people that say that Bush won on substance and Kerry on style, maybe they have a point. But many of the voters in this country, not being the brightest or the sharpest knives in the drawer, will go for style over substance every time.
So, I'm not the least bit surprised that this is called a dead heat at this time.
NGUYEN: And, Nancy, OK, so Kerry has gained some ground following that. Does that mean Dick Cheney has a lot of ground to cover tonight in this debate?
SKINNER: Oh, yes. Humpty-Dumpty has fallen from the wall. It's going to be very difficult to put him back together again.
But let me go back to what Neal said. This was not just about style over substance. I think most polls show that Kerry -- and most viewers polled thought Kerry had a great command of the facts. And President Bush seemed tongue-tied. He didn't seem like he could even answer the questions. It wasn't so much about style; he didn't seem like he knew the facts.
And that was, for the first time, you know, this is -- there are no campaign commercials. Karl Rove wasn't sitting under the table. This was a side-by-side comparison of the competencies of these two men. And that's, I think, why we saw the result we did.
NGUYEN: So, let's stick...
BOORTZ: Nancy, you have a fixation on Karl Rove being under tables, don't you? We need to look into that a little bit.
SKINNER: It scares me. It scares me.
NGUYEN: You guys are off to the races. OK, let's kind of focus right now on the vice presidential debate tonight.
Neal, let's talk to you for a second. Who has more to lose?
BOORTZ: Well, oh, I mean, John Edwards. What does he -- he has a guaranteed Senate seat. So, he has basically nothing to lose. The one with something to lose is Dick Cheney. And he's up against a trial lawyer. I mean, a glib trial lawyer. I'm a glib trial lawyer. And it doesn't matter what the facts are. If we have a jury in the palm of our hand, we're going to bring them over to our side.
NGUYEN: But Cheney is an experienced one-on-one debater. Doesn't he have a bit of an advantage in this?
BOORTZ: Here's an odd thing for you. In the last campaign, we heard a lot about gravitas. Now, obviously when it comes to Edwards and Cheney, Cheney is the one with gravitas, and all of a sudden it's not important to the media anymore.
I think that Cheney is a policy-walk. He has the facts on his side. He knows the topics, but he is not -- he doesn't have a great head of hair. I share that with him. And that's also going to hurt him in the debate. Believe it or not, the hair counts.
SKINNER: You know what, Neal? I wouldn't worry so much about Mr. Cheney and what his fate will hold if he loses. He is "Mr. special interest," and he can go back to Halliburton, where he's still getting...
NGUYEN: Oh, there's the "H" word. That's going to come up tonight.
BOORTZ: Oh! And didn't we know...
SKINNER: ... a special interest break.
BOORTZ: Didn't we know Halliburton was special interest?
SKINNER: Of course. Let me say this. Let me just say this.
BOORTZ: Trial lawyers, Nancy?
SKINNER: Let me -- let me say this. I'm not worried about either of them in their own personal fortunes.
Here's what Dick Cheney needs to do to make up ground. He needs to scare people, because that's what Dick Cheney does best. He gets out and says ridiculous things like al Qaeda would vote for John Kerry, because they really don't have anything on substance on the issues themselves.
And so, what Dick Cheney does so well is make statements like was reported in "The New York Times" that with absolute certainty, these aluminum tubes are meant for nuclear weapons. And guess what? He was wrong.
So, he has to just go back to his old standard card of making Osama bin Laden real important to John Kerry and scare the heck out of people.
BOORTZ: Oh, you're pulling all of the tricks out of the bag, the Willy Horton bag. This is wonderful stuff, Nancy.
Now, about the aluminum tubes, again -- and this is something the left has a hard time coming to grips with -- the information was what he said he believed to be true at the time he said it. After the fact, if you get some different information, well, then maybe your story changes a little bit.
NGUYEN: All right, let's...
SKINNER: According to "The New York Times," there was a raging debate...
BOORTZ: Yes, OK.
SKINNER: ... and both sides were involved in it, and they knew it was a raging debate. There's no way he didn't know there was a huge debate...
NGUYEN: All right, let's move now to today's "Washington Post," where...
BOORTZ: Yes.
NGUYEN: ... Ambassador Paul Bremer talked about the looting in Iraq. And he said -- quote -- "We paid a big price for not stopping it, because it established an atmosphere of lawlessness. We never had enough troops on the ground."
Now, does this play right into Kerry's argument that the U.S. really didn't have a post-invasion plan? And let's start with you, Nancy.
SKINNER: Absolutely. And with friends like these, I mean, this was a guy who was on the ground from the get-go. And now that he's free to speak, what is he saying? He has to say -- agree with Eric Sinsheki (ph), the general who said we probably needed 200,000 troops. And he was laughed at and ridiculed and ultimately retired for those comments. And that was the crux of the problem that they did not make a plan for the peace. And so, our soldiers, unfortunately, are still paying for that lack of planning.
BOORTZ: Well, as the man said, war is a series of catastrophes that end in a victory. Yes, the looting did have a very adverse effect on any sort of an atmosphere of law and order.
The number of troops had really nothing to do with that. What the troops were allowed and what they were not allowed to do had a lot to do with that. If the troops had been allowed under our policies to go out there at the beginning and put down this looting with deadly force if necessary, then the situation might have been different.
I think that was a tactical mistake. But it really had nothing to do with the number of troops on the ground. It had...
NGUYEN: All right, we're going to have to leave it there unfortunately.
BOORTZ: ... just what they were allowed to do.
NGUYEN: We are out of time. But, Neal Boortz and Nancy Skinner, we thank you for your time this morning. Always fun to listen to you both.
SKINNER: Thanks, Neal. Bye, Neal.
BOORTZ: Next week, Nancy.
NGUYEN: Yes. Face off again next week.
Still to come right here on DAYBREAK, beer that gives you a boost sound far-fetched? Well, one company doesn't think so.
And, OK, we know the really important battle is between Bush and Kerry. But don't you want to hear about the drama brewing between the "Rocketman" and the "Material Girl?" That's ahead.
But first, here's a look at what else is making news on this Tuesday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: It's time now to check in with Bill Hemmer, who is in Cleveland for a look at what's coming up "AMERICAN MORNING."
Good morning to you -- Bill.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, Cleveland. How are you, Betty? Good morning.
The VPs go at it tonight. Who has the edge in that debate? We will hear from a number of analysts, including Carlos Watson, with me here in northern Ohio. Mary Matalin with the Bush campaign, Joe Lockhart for the Kerry campaign. What we need to look out for later tonight? We'll talk about that.
Also, this statement from Paul Bremer, the former civilian administrator in Iraq, is now saying the U.S. did not have enough troops to keep the peace in that country and to stop the looting in the short days after Baghdad fell. We'll talk about that.
Volcano alert continues, Mount St. Helens is putting on a spectacular display. We will go there live also and find out what we expect today. So, we'll have it all for you at the top of the hour live in Cleveland. Betty, we'll see you then, OK?
NGUYEN: You're supposed to say Cleveland rocks! You missed it, Bill.
HEMMER: Always.
NGUYEN: OK.
HEMMER: That's right.
NGUYEN: All right.
HEMMER: The Rock 'N' Roll Hall of Fame right here on the banks of Lake Erie.
NGUYEN: Absolutely. Thanks.
HEMMER: See you, Betty.
NGUYEN: All right, see you.
Attention Red Bull fans. Anheuser-Busch is set to launch a new beer with extra kick.
Carrie Lee has the story from the Nasdaq Marketsite in Times Square.
And you've already had, what, three Red Bulls already this morning?
CARRIE LEE, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we need a little mini refrigerator right here, Betty.
A new concoction from Anheuser-Busch, this is a fruity-smelling beer of sorts. It's going to be spiked with caffeine, guarana and ginseng. Guarana, by the way, is something that's used in Brazil. It's a caffeine-bearing herb and comes from Brazil.
And what Anheuser-Busch is doing here is clearly going after the Red Bull set, those 20-something consumers looking for something zippy in their drinks. And there is quite a bit of alcohol to go along with the caffeine here. You can see, 6.6 percent alcohol by volume, quite a bit more than the 3 percent or so that the regular beer sold in the U.S. has.
The price here is going to be a little bit higher than Budweiser as a premium product.
What's it going to taste like? Well, B to the E, and that's the name of this drink, is slightly sweet but tart, coming in the aromas of blackberry, raspberry and cherry. B to the E is the name, E standing for extra. And this is going to debut in November. So, we'll see if they can give Red Bull a kick.
That is the latest from here -- Betty.
NGUYEN: B to the E on the rocks. OK.
LEE: That's right.
NGUYEN: Carrie Lee, thank you.
Well, Elton John is at it again. Last month, he railed against photographers in Taiwan, calling them "vile pigs." But now it seems Sir Elton has taken a dislike to Madonna. At London's Q Awards, John made fun of Madonna's nomination for a best live act.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELTON JOHN, WON SONGWRITING AWARD: Madonna best (EXPLETIVE DELETED) live act (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Since when has lip-synching been live? Sorry about that. But I think everyone who lip-synchs in public on stage when you've paid, like, $75 to see them should be shot. Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: My! Well, Madonna doesn't seem to be taking those comments too seriously. She says she really does sing on stage and wants Elton to know that he is still on her Christmas card list. But don't expect him to apologize. Why? Because sorry seems to be the hardest word, of course.
How quickly can you name the running mates from the last four presidential elections? Is that with our help or without the help -- or is that with or without the help of the Internet? Yes, that's what I'm trying to say. Coming up, a look at vice presidential debates from the past. How much do these things really matter?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Well, they can be mean. They can be sweet. They can downright funny. Vice presidential debates have run the gamut throughout American history.
CNN national correspondent Bruce Morton takes a glimpse into the past.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BERNARD SHAW, MODERATOR: A candidate shall have...
BRUCE MORTON, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Vice presidential debates, we haven't always had them. John Kennedy and Richard Nixon debated in 1960, for instance. But their running mates, Lyndon Johnson and Henry Cabot Lodge, did not. They can be mean sometimes. Bob Dole, Gerald Ford's running mate in 1976, denouncing Democrat wars.
SEN. BOB DOLE (R), FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I figured it up the other day, if we added up the killed and wounded in Democrat wars in this century, it would be about 1.6 million Americans. And that could fill the city of Detroit.
MORTON: Remember Geraldine Ferraro in 1984 lecturing then Vice President George Bush?
REP. GERALDINE FERRARO (D), FMR. VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I almost resent, Vice President Bush, your patronizing attitude that you have to teach me about foreign policy.
MORTON: Sometimes they're just kind of sweet. Admiral James Stockdale, Ross Perot's running mate in 1992, a veteran, a Vietnam POW; clearly not a politician.
ADM. JAMES STOCKDALE, (REF.), FMR. VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Who am I? Why am I here?
MORTON: Vice President Cheney, who's been an attack dog this time, cursing the Democratic senator, suggesting voting for John Kerry would trigger more terrorist attacks, was gentle in his 2000 debate with Joe Lieberman. The sharpest moments were soft one-liners, like this one, suggesting how successful Cheney had been as a businessman.
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D-CT.), FMR. VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can see my wife, and I think she's thinking, gee, I wish he would go out into the private sector.
RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I'm going to try to help you do that, Joe.
LIEBERMAN: No.
MORTON: Do vice presidential debates matter? Here's perhaps the most memorable exchange of recent years: Lloyd Bentsen attacking the first President Bush's No. 2, Dan Quayle, after Quayle compared his experience to presidential candidate John Kennedy.
SEN. LLOYD BENTSEN (D), FMR. VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy.
MORTON: Devastating? Well, viewers thought Bentsen won the debate, sure. But when a "Los Angeles Times" poll asked, would the VPs' debate affect how you vote, 79 percent, 4 out of 5, said no.
People vote for president. And unless something really unusual happens, that will probably be true this time, too.
Bruce Morton, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It's time to give away the mug from yesterday. Here you go. That DAYBREAK mug may soon be sitting on your shelf or something.
NGUYEN: Lucky person.
MYERS: You bet. When will the Nobel Peace Prize be announced? The answer to that one is Friday. And who was the pilot of the aircraft competing for the X-Prize? And that was Mike Melville (ph). And obviously you probably know by now he did make it up and back.
The winner, Christopher Helgeson from Cincinnati, Ohio. Christopher, congratulations.
NGUYEN: Yes.
MYERS: This DAYBREAK mug will be sitting on your shelf in the next six to eight weeks, because shipping and handling will be included.
Here you go, the DAYBREAK question of the day for you now for today. Tuesday, today, is the deadline for voters in which two states? You have to register in which two states right now for today. And the spacecraft in which Gordon Cooper set a space endurance record? We'll name the winner tomorrow.
NGUYEN: And that does it for us. Thanks so much for watching. Now it's on to CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING." Have a great day.
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