Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Cheney, Edwards Will Debate Tonight; Bremer Criticizes Handling of Iraq War

Aired October 05, 2004 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, HOST: It's happening right now. The vice president and the man who wants his job face off in just four hours here in Cleveland. What, if anything, could trip up the vice president and will he lose his famous cool? And what, if anything, could trap Senator John Edwards? Can he go head to head with Dick Cheney? Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: The understudies take center stage. Is one too sour and the other too sweet? We'll ask former CNN anchor and former debate moderator Bernard Shaw.

Bremer's bombshell. Stunning criticism from the former U.S. point man in Iraq. Could his timing be any worse for the Bush administration?

Casualty of war. Her son was killed in action.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Soldiers come from our family. I'm very proud of him.

ANNOUNCER: Did she die of a broken heart?

And flu fears. Just as Americans start lining up for shots, word of a serious vaccine shortage. What it means for you.

Live from Cleveland, Ohio, site of the vice presidential debate, this is a special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Hello. We're here at the Cleveland Museum of Art, near the campus of Case Western Reserve University. That's the scene of the debate that will unfold in a few hours. Thanks very much for joining us.

Tonight it's the second team's turn. The stars are sitting this one out. The president at the White House preparing for his own next showdown and planning to watch this one on TV. Senator Kerry on the campaign trail, squeezing out every bit of mileage from last week's matchup.

We'll go live to CNN's John King and Candy Crowley who tell us how the running mates plan to debate. But we begin with those striking, surprising comments from the administration's ex- administrator in Iraq, Ambassador Paul Bremer who said the United States simply did not deploy enough troops in Iraq. Here is our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Since the end of the war, the Bush administration has been insisting it has plenty of troops in Iraq while critics have been saying it's clear that there's a short fall. Today, it appears that Paul Bremer has come down on the side of the critics.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): Former Iraq administrator Paul Bremer now admits what critics have been saying for a year and a half, the U.S. did not send enough troops to keep the peace. We never had enough troops on the ground, Bremer told an insurance conference Monday. And in remarks at DePaul University last month that drew little attention at the time, Bremer went even further, telling a student forum, "the one thing that would have improved the situation would have been having more troops in Iraq at the beginning and throughout." Bremer's second guessing is political dynamite and was seized on by John Kerry to buttress his argument the war plan was flawed.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now Paul Bremer is saying what a terrible mistake it was. The president needs to take accountability for his own judgments.

MCINTYRE: In a clarifying statement Bremer says there are now enough troops in Iraq and insists his comments referred to his belief when he arrived in May of 2003 that more U.S. or Iraqi forces were needed to contain looting in the immediate aftermath of the invasion. At the time, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld dismissed the looting saying that war is imperfect and stuff happens.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: And it's untidy and freedom is untidy and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things.

MCINTYRE: Bremer said he shared his concerns, but it's not clear whether he argued for more troops with military commanders or Secretary Rumsfeld.

"Although I raised the issue a number of times with our government, I should have been more insistent," he said.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: The Bush campaign issued a statement saying while Ambassador Bremer differed with commanders in the field and that was his right, the White House said that President Bush relied on the Pentagon and military commanders for the best advice on troop requirements -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre, thanks very much. The CIA is about to release what's being called new evidence that Iraq made small quantities of biological weapons in recent years. That word from U.S. officials who say the weapons for probably for use in assassinations, not for mass casualty attacks. The information is in a report to be presented to the U.S. Congress tomorrow.

Sources say it will endorse an earlier finding that Iraq did not have WMD stockpiles at the time of the U.S.-led invasion, but that it did seek to retain the capability to make weapons in the future.

Now to the running mates debate. It's the world of -- some debate that the world will be watching tonight, the veteran vice president against the sharp, some would say too sharp, young senator. We begin with our senior White House correspondent, John King, who is keeping a close eye on Dick Cheney -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The Bush administration or the Bush/Cheney campaign certainly hoping that experience gap, Mr. Cheney in government and politics for nearly 40 years, Senator Edwards just shy of 6 years. The Bush/Cheney campaign believes that helps them tonight entering for the decided advantage when it comes to experience in the government but just because of the story you just aired, also a tough night for Vice President Cheney. He, of course, is one of the key architects of the Iraq war strategy. He of course has been perhaps the most outspoken person in the administration, insisting Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, was trying to redevelop his nuclear weapons program and should be taken down from power.

Now of course these questions from the Ambassador Bremer about whether there were sufficient troops in Iraq. That has been a persistent and consistent criticism of Democrats including Senator Kerry. So look for that to come up tonight as the vice president makes his case that the president is the right man to continue leading the war on terrorism and that he is the right man to be the vice president standing at his side.

You can expect sharp questions again about Iraq's strategy. Not just from the Democrats now that Bremer has added his voice to that debate. We are told Vice President Cheney tonight will keep most of his focus on Senator Kerry but he does hope just by sitting at the same table, they hope the voters look and say they want the more experienced Mr. Cheney as the vice president for the next four years.

In addition to the expected questions about Iraq and the war on terror, they also expect sharp exchanges over the economy. We've seen that from both candidates this past week. Vice President Cheney, we're told going into this debate, is prepared to make the case that the economy is coming back quite nicely and that the Democrats would raise taxes and hurt the economy. Wolf, obviously a generational contrast, an experience contrast, most of all, the Bush/Cheney campaign looking for the vice president to turn on a strong showing to calm the jitters some Republicans had after the president's showing in the first debate last week which most Republicans now concede is not so stellar.

BLITZER: John, how much of a setback is Ambassador Bremer's surprising comments? KING: Well, the White House says it is not a setback but it certainly would be a sharp question tonight. The White House is hoping its answer will carry the day, and that is that Ambassador Bremer had his opinion, he stated his opinion but the president in the end sided with the military commanders on the ground who said they did not need more troops.

Now, Senator Kerry frequently makes the case that those commanders were intimidated into not asking for more troops. That is one of the key points in this debate but the White House says Ambassador Bremer had his say but it is the generals on the ground who had the most sway with the president.

BLITZER: John King reporting for us. Thanks very much. Let's go to our senior political correspondent Candy Crowley. Candy, what they call a good talker, they say that John Edwards is a very good talker. Is he ready, according to his aides, for this debate tonight?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. They say he is ready to rock and roll. This is a man where -- by the way, they welcome the contrast here. Take everything that John just said and reverse it. And that is how the Edwards' team sees this playing out tonight. They believe that when voters look at Cheney, they will see the face of old ways. When they look at John Edwards, they will see the face of new ways. This is something on Cheney's record, that they're not going to run from. They're going to embrace it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I mean, there couldn't be a starker contrast. I do not have the same view. I do not have the same view of the world as Dick Cheney. That's a good thing. That's not a bad thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: For instance, John Kerry -- I'm sorry, John Edwards will look at Dick Cheney's record and tie it as closely as he possibly can to George Bush. They want to continue what they believe John Kerry started in his debate with George Bush, and that is they say hold this administration accountable. They say Cheney, who has been lauded as the most powerful vice president ever is as every bit as much responsible for what's going on in Iraq as George Bush.

So they want to continue that conversation. They also believe that on the matter of experience, they can say, sure, experience in Washington, Cheney wins, but when you're talking about life experience, which is what John Edwards likes to talk about, he, of course, was a very successful trial lawyer, a personal injury lawyer. They have framed him all along as a person who has always stood up for the little guy. That's something they've taken and put on the campaign trail. In fact, in that town hall meeting that you just saw that he had today, he talked about how when I went into that debate, it's you I'm going to be talking for. So they like that image of a big Washington power broker versus a man who spent his life, they say, standing up for little people -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Candy Crowley, thank you very much.

Who is more likely to win tonight? According to a new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, the public simply can't decide. Asked who will do a better job in the debate, 42 percent said Edwards, 40 percent said Cheney, 15 percent said they were unsure. The candidates certainly offer about as clear a choice as you're likely to encounter. For that, let's turn to our Brian Todd. He's in Washington -- Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's been evident throughout this campaign and from the moment they enter the stage tonight the contrast between Dick Cheney and John Edwards will be clear.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): By general perception, they couldn't be more different. As debaters and political speakers, Dick Cheney and John Edwards present strong contrasts, polar opposite characteristics that have served each man well.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: I think the word that is often applying to Edwards is populist, meaning he connects with people. Cheney's experience does reassure a lot of voters in very difficult times that he will be there and he knows what to do.

TODD: Cheney, the Washington insider with an impressive resume, who critics say can turn people off with his sarcastic biting presentation.

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT: There is, I must the view now that having joined with Al Gore on the ticket of the other side, that depth of conviction that we'd admired before isn't quite as strong.

TODD: Edwards, a relative newcomer to Washington who has recently gotten comfortable in attack mode, but who rose to prominence with a positive message and sunny delivery.

EDWARDS: I want you to keep one thing in mind the whole time. Hope is on the way.

TODD: Despite their contrasting styles, they share important skills. Aides have repeatedly seen Cheney read copiously through massive briefing books, then cut to the core of an issue with amazing focus. Observing him as a personal injury lawyer, allies and opponents marveled as Edwards broke down complicated subject matter and connected with his audience without condescending to them.

AMY WALTER, COOK POLITICAL REPORT: Clearly you have two very smart men and two men who have made their careers off their ability to retain information and to be able to project strength and knowledge and smarts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: Still, analysts say tonight isn't so much about each man's individual strengths as it is about their ability to convince voters of their boss' strengths -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Brian Todd, thanks very much. To our viewers, here's your chance to weigh in on this question. Our question of the day is this, do vice presidential candidates influence your votes in presidential elections? You can vote. Go to CNN.com/wolf. We'll have the results later this hour.

Our special coverage of tonight's vice presidential debate will continue ahead. CNN's Carlos Watson and Jeff Greenfield, they'll join me live here in Cleveland.

Plus, significant vaccine shortage. Why you and your family may be unprotected from the flu this season.

Rebuilding after battle. It was the city almost destroyed after a U.S. military offensive. Now Iraqis in Samarra trying to rebuild their lives.

And later...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor, if Kitty Dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Bernard Shaw made history with that question to then presidential candidate Michael Dukakis. He also moderated the 2000 debate between Dick Cheney and Joe Lieberman. Bernard Shaw will join us live. He'll share his experiences leading up to tonight's debate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: More politics from here in Cleveland coming up. We're getting word right now of new violence in Gaza. The Israeli military says a rocket fired from a drone killed two suspected militants outside the Jabalya refugee camp in northern Gaza. A field commander in the Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades tells CNN the men were brothers. In addition, both sides say eight people were wounded in the attack, four of them critically. Israel is now one week into a new military offensive in Gaza that it says is designed to end Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel. CNN producer Talal Aburahma is in Gaza City. He's joining us now live on the phone with more. Talal, give us the latest. What's happening right now?

TALAL ABURAHMA, CNN PRODUCER: Well, about one hour ago, a drone fired one rocket was fired at the group, Al Aksa Brigade, killed two, injured another four, two of them in a critical case. According to a leader, a field commander in Al Aksa Brigade, told me by the phone drone fired (UNINTELLIGIBLE) at a group from Al Aksa Brigade, they were (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and they are ready for the tanks if the tanks try to enter Jabalya camp. According to the hospital sources they confirmed there are two dead and two critical and six injured. There's been a lot of shooting in the area up to this minute there and the people in Jabalya camp, they still wait about this incursion. And the older faction, day and night, they are on high alarm against this insurgent. A lot of these people up to this minute, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) more than 80 people, most of them are from militant group.

BLITZER: Talal Aburahma, thanks very much for that update. Reporting breaking news live report from Gaza. We'll continue to monitor that story for you, our viewers.

It's been another deadly day of car bombings and shootings in Iraq. It's also the start of another major American-led operation against insurgents in the central part of the country. This one is similar to the just ended offensive to regain control of the city of Samarra. For now, the insurgents apparently have melted away and many Iraqis in the city wish the Americans would leave as well. At least, that's what they're telling our reporters. CNN's Jane Arraf reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Tentatively, the citizens of Samarra emerge to calculate the cost of battle. Near the sacred Imam Ali Shrine, where some of the most intense fighting took place, women and children are beginning to venture out. Forty-eight hours ago, we were on this street when it was ringing with gunfire. The fighting has stopped, but as you can see from these shuttered shops, it's a long way from normal.

(voice-over): Children have been hired to sweep the streets. They get $10 each, money the Americans channel through the local government.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you happy that the Americans are here?

ARRAF: The boy is non-committal.

It's clear the civil affairs team has an uphill battle.

"It all came down on us, the kids," says this boy with an anti- ammunition box.

A retired construction worker tells the U.S. troops he saw a baby shot in front of his eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we don't shoot babies.

ARRAF: Mahmud (ph) insists U.S. soldiers opened fire when the car ignored warnings to stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn't it better now that the terrorists are gone?

ARRAF: "It would be better if the Americans left," Mahmud (ph) answers.

Lieutenant Colonel Kirk Fernitz agrees, but says first they need to help the government here get back on its feet.

LT. COL. KIRK FERNITZ, U.S. ARMY: Tell him that we're going to be working with his local city council.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to get in, to confirm it.

ARRAF: Down the street, U.S. and Iraqi special forces have raided a tailor's shop. They say they have no firm evidence, but they suspect it might belong to a main financial backer of the insurgency.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know where you live.

ARRAF: The U.S. Special Forces dictate a note to the translator to leave for him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to give yourself up to the nearest coalition forces. If you don't give up, we're going to hunt you down until we find you.

ARRAF: In the streets, Iraqi police are returning to work. This group says it's true the insurgents have targeted police, but they wish American forces had never come here.

"From the time they came until now, we have nothing. Everything has been turned upside down," says this police officer.

Nearby, a corner grocery store is the only shop open for blocks. The owner, Mohammed Riadh Ahmed (ph), says there isn't enough business to stay open.

"There is no one here. They see the Americans and they're afraid," he says.

But one of the religious figures from the Golden Shrine tells us he is grateful to the U.S. forces.

"Thank God they came and rid us of those evil doers. They were destroying the city," says Isaeed Marwan Mohammed (ph). He says he's just happy to have his mosque back.

Jane Arraf, CNN, Samarra.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And amid all of this is yet another developing story unfolding at the United Nations. Right now, let's bring in our senior U.N. correspondent, Richard Roth -- Richard.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the United States just vetoed a Middle East resolution pushed by the Palestinians that would have called for a halt in Israel's military offensive in northern Gaza. The United States ambassador John Danforth, the only hand in the air, but because the U.S. has permanent veto power, the resolution is dead. Ambassador Danforth saying it was a lopsided, unbalanced resolution, and that in effect, United States is tired of these continuous resolutions against Israel. Algeria, which wanted the resolution, says the U.S. veto sends the wrong signal. Eleven in favor, three abstentions, but the U.S. veto kills it -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Israel very, very happy with that United States veto. Thanks very much, Richard Roth, for that.

An ominous sign for the flu season, right here in the United States. That's coming up, why health officials are predicting a shortage of flu vaccine. This is information we all need to know about.

Also, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: War takes soldiers. Soldiers come from our families.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: But the soldier son was only the first devastating loss for this family. Details of a heart wrenching twist.

And inside the vice presidential debate. We'll hear from the man who moderated the last vice presidential face-off, the former CNN anchor Bernard Shaw. He'll join us live. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: More political news coming up, including the lead-up to the debate here in Cleveland tonight. But let's check some other stories, important stories, specifically health-related.

Just as the flu season is about to begin, American health officials are warning of major flu vaccine shortages. It's a stunning development, and it's the result of action taken in Britain against an American company. Our medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, is at the CNN Center in Atlanta. She is joining us now with details -- Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, there have been shortages of the flu vaccine in the past, but this time, it promises to be much worse.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN (voice-over): It couldn't have happened at a worse time. Nearly half of the nation's supply of flu shots will now not be available, because of fears the vaccine might have been contaminated during the production process at the Chiron Corporation. And this just as the flu shot season was getting under way.

HOWARD PIEN, CHIRON CEO: We profoundly, and I cannot overemphasize how profoundly, we profoundly regret that we will be unable to meet public health needs this season.

COHEN: The timing is especially bad, because many expected last year's severe flu season would mean even more people lining up for shots this year.

TOMMY THOMPSON, HHS SECRETARY: This is very disappointing news that creates a serious challenge to our vaccine supply for the upcoming flu season.

COHEN: The government's strategy now, give flu shots only to those who really need it.

THOMPSON: Our immediate focus will be on making sure that the supply of vaccine we do have reaches those who are the most vulnerable.

COHEN: The CDC says among those who should get flu shots first, children ages 6 to 23 months, adults over age 65, adults and children with chronic illnesses, pregnant women, and anyone who could spread the flu to those at high risk.

And health officials say everyone else should wait until those who really need the shots get them first.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN: Now, there should not be a shortage of flu shots for kids, and that's because a different company makes the pediatric vaccine -- Wolf.

BLITZER: It seems almost every season, we get these reports of a shortage of the vaccine. Why can't they simply make a lot more of it, Elizabeth?

COHEN: Well, they certainly wish that they could right now start making a lot more. At this point, that would be a very hard thing to do. The vaccine takes a long time. They have to grow it. It's a very long and tedious process. And the reason why this time is that they just found contamination. They didn't think that they had to make anymore. They didn't think that this was going to be a problem.

BLITZER: Elizabeth Cohen reporting on important news we all need to know about -- Elizabeth, thank you very much.

Some on the Democrats' side are calling it the H-bomb. Will it be dropped tonight in the vice presidential debate tonight here in Cleveland? Up next, Halliburton and Dick Cheney.

Also, stealing the spotlight. It's their one and only face-off. Can either vice presidential candidate stand out in America's eyes? I'll ask the former debate moderator Bernard Shaw. He moderated the vice presidential debate four years ago.

And blowing off steam again, new rumblings at Mount Saint Helens in Washington state for the second straight day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

In the campaign spotlight, one name is likely to come up during tonight's vice presidential debate. I'll explain.

First, though, a quick check of some other stories now in the news.

A car bomb attack against a U.S. military convoy today killed three Iraqi civilians in the northern city of Mosul. Three other Iraqi civilians and four American soldiers were wounded. After the explosion, the convoy came under rocket-propelled grenade and small- arms fire.

Washington's Mount Saint Helens belched steam and ash into the sky once again today, prompting an ash fall advisory from the National Weather Service. Experts say small incidents like this could continue without a large-scale eruption ever occurring. As one put it, we may never see the main course. On the other, we may.

Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

Now back to tonight's vice presidential debate, where Democrat John Edwards is almost certain to bring up the subject of Halliburton. That's the company Dick Cheney ran before he became vice president. And Democrats say there's a continuing relationship.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The only people that George Bush's policies are really working for are the people that he chooses to help. It's working for the drug companies. It's working for the oil companies. It's working for the HMOs. And it's certainly working for Halliburton.

BLITZER (voice-over): It's become a major weapon in the Democratic arsenal, an H-bomb, if you will, with the H standing for Halliburton.

Halliburton is the biggest U.S. military contractor in Iraq. And Dick Cheney was Halliburton's CEO from 1995 until 2000, the year he was elected vice president. Critics have accused Cheney of steering business to his old company, something he has persistently denied. Immediately after the election, but before he took office, Cheney received $1.6 million from Halliburton in a deferred bonus and deferred salary. And he has received some $400,000 since as part of an agreement with Halliburton made before the 2000 election.

But Cheney insisted in an interview with me earlier this year, he has no financial interest in the success or failure of the company.

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What I have done is taken out an insurance policy that will guarantee the payment of what Halliburton owes me, whether Halliburton succeeds or fails. If they go belly up tomorrow, it will not affect my financial status one iota.

BLITZER: In a commercial on its Web site, Halliburton says it has no special relationship with the vice president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're serving the troops because of what we know, not who we know.

BLITZER: One journalist who has written about Halliburton says while there may be suspicions about Cheney's relationship with the company, no one has produced a smoking gun.

MARK HOSENBALL, "NEWSWEEK": And there are certainly allegations that it's a bit fishy that Halliburton got all these no-bid contracts, or at least got some of these no-bid contracts, but nobody has ever come up with any proof that Cheney's office or Cheney himself arranged that or rigged that in any way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The last vice presidential debate between Dick Cheney and Joe Lieberman was in 2000, exactly four years ago. It was moderated by CNN's own Bernard Shaw.

The former anchorman is joining us now live from Washington with some insights into tonight's debate.

Bernie, thanks very much for joining us.

You were right there between Lieberman and Cheney. Looking ahead to tonight, looking back to Cheney's style, what goes through your mind? What should we brace for tonight, Bernie?

BERNARD SHAW, FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE MODERATOR: I think you can brace for what I think will be a brass-knuckled night barely concealed by velvet gloves.

After the debate between Senator Lieberman and Dick Cheney at Centre College in Danville, Kentucky, four years ago, each man told me, Wolf -- and this is very interesting -- each man said he was ready to put on the brass knuckles, to reach down under the table and come up with heavy ammunition if the other candidate had done so. Cheney told me that and Joe Lieberman told me that.

This format affects the two candidates seated at that table. Think of it, a round table, Gwen Ifill, the moderator, sitting opposite them. The two candidates are less than three feet apart. That kind of format imposes stability. It imposes decorum. It's very hard to raise your voice when your opponent is sitting right at your elbow. So expect these candidates to speak in conversational tones, low voices, unless and until one or the other does something that the other does not like.

You can read Cheney's chagrin and disagreement very readily. He has a tendency to go like that. And he cuts his eyes across to his opponent. There will probably be a lot of that going on tonight. I think that you can expect John Edwards to attack, attack, attack tonight. And you can expect Cheney to defend, defend and counterattack. Gwen Ifill is going to have her hands full tonight.

BLITZER: Bernie, I also know, having covered Dick Cheney for many, many years, going back to when he was the defense secretary and I was the Pentagon correspondent, even earlier when he was White House chief under President Ford, he is very, very cool, but -- but he does have some buttons that can be pushed.

SHAW: Yes.

BLITZER: And he could lose that cool under certain very rare, but certain circumstances. Is that your impression?

SHAW: That's my impression. Dick Cheney has a short fuse when provoked. And John Edwards is going to have to be very, very careful. He runs the risk of stepping over the line and appearing arrogant. That camera does not lie. These two men are under intense pressure tonight. And each is out there tonight, of course, in Cleveland, to promote the head of the ticket, not themselves.

BLITZER: Take us into the mind, if you will, of a moderator of a debate along these lines. Gwen Ifill tonight of PBS will be moderating this debate. You did it four years ago. We all remember that question you posed to Michael Dukakis in 1988. How do you prepare as a moderator, as a questioner for this kind of historic encounter?

SHAW: Well, you take very seriously the responsibility of being moderator. And you don't take it personally. This is not an ego trip at all. And your head is not in the clouds. If your head is in the clouds, you don't belong in that chair.

It is an awesome responsibility and you are there as a journalist to ask questions of these candidates, ask questions and get out of the way, so that, in responding to those questions, voters watching these gentlemen will get a very good idea where they stand on the issues and how they differ. A moderator works weeks and weeks on these questions. And the questions are related to the issues in the campaign. They don't come out of the blue.

I'm concerned tonight about the moderator. These two men have such high energy levels and they have such commitment that, when they go at it, I think that Gwen Ifill is going to be asked and challenged to extend debate for a minute. And if that happens continually tonight in those 90 minutes, the number of questions she's going to be able to ask will go down.

One of the things Cheney is very good at is rebutting something that he feels is not true or that he does not like and doing it on the spot. That happened a lot between Cheney and Lieberman at the Centre College debate four years ago.

BLITZER: Bernard Shaw for us here -- not here in Cleveland, but in Washington -- Bernie, thanks as usual, very much.

SHAW: Thank you. Always good to be with you.

BLITZER: All right.

And our special coverage of tonight's debate will continue. Just ahead, I'll speak live with Jeff Greenfield, Carlos Watson. They're here in Cleveland. We'll assess what's next.

Also coming up, the agony of war. A mother's son dies in Iraq. Did she then die of heartbreak?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The heartbreak of war has been compounded for an Arizona family who lost not only a son in Iraq, but a wife and a mother here at home.

CNN's Michael Schulder has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL SCHULDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More than 1,060 American mothers have gotten the knock on the door since the war began.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you know exactly what they're here for when they come to your door like that.

SCHULDER: They had come to tell her that her son, Army Specialist Robert Unruh, had been killed in action in a place called Al Anbar Province, west of Baghdad.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They came under enemy attack. And Robby was wounded with small-arms fire in the abdomen. They took him to the trauma MASH unit, where the doctor pronounced him.

SCHULDER: Specialist Unruh enlisted in the Army because he wanted to help protect his country after September 11. A week ago, after his death, Specialist Unruh's family spoke to reporters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want everybody to know how proud we were of Robby. Robby gave his life so that others could live under the freedom of a democracy, as we do.

SCHULDER: Robert Unruh's mother said her son's death has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with honor. But honor was not enough to sustain her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: War takes soldiers. Soldiers come from our family.

SCHULDER: After learning of her son's death, she complained of chest pains. Her husband spoke of her broken heart. Friends say she could not stop crying. Saturday morning, she viewed her son's body. Saturday night, she collapsed in her kitchen and died. Specialist Robert Unruh will be buried Friday at the Southern Arizona Veterans Memorial Ceremony. In the funeral procession, his body will be accompanied by that of his mother.

Michael Schulder, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: One family's deep, deep sacrifice. What a tragedy.

The war in Iraq will certainly be front and center tonight when the running mates face off in the debate. Our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield, and political analyst, Carlos Watson, they will have a ringside seat for tonight's debate. When we come back, we'll ask them if there will be any October surprises, at least tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: So, what do we expect tonight from these two vice presidential candidates?

Let's get some analysis. Joining us are two analysts, Jeff Greenfield, Carlos Watson, who will be with us all night tonight.

Jeff, what are you looking for specifically?

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Really want to see who these candidates target.

If you remember back in '92 when Dan Quayle almost ignored Al Gore, he was going after Clinton. It's pretty clear that the Bush campaign thinks that John Kerry has revived himself after a very rough six weeks. And I think they're looking for Dick Cheney to raise new doubts, particularly about the war on terror.

And I think, in the case of John Edwards, the temptation is to go after Dick Cheney as corporate man, Halliburton man. But he's got a job to try to question President Bush.

BLITZER: So what you're saying is that Dick Cheney will go after not necessarily John Edwards. He will go after John Kerry.

GREENFIELD: And then the question is, will Edwards respond in kind by sort of ignoring the tempting target of the former CEO of Halliburton and train his sights on Bush? And we'll see.

BLITZER: That's the vice presidential running mate's responsibility.

GREENFIELD: It's supposed to be, yes.

BLITZER: Because, normally, that is what he's going to be doing.

Carlos, what are you looking at?

CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I actually -- I agree with Jeff.

But I think it's important for Cheney here to give the Republicans the boost, shot in the arm, if you will. I think they need a win. I think, even in the head-to-head debate with Edwards, there needs to be a stature gap as he talks about the various issues, both domestic and foreign policy wise. He got to show that there's a real difference.

Secondly, I think, from Cheney's perspective, the other thing he wants to do, I say scare, but don't be scary. He wants to underscore that terrorism is a critical issue. You need a certain sort of team in this post-9/11 era. But he can't be scary to those security moms that we talk about, Jeff.

GREENFIELD: If you remember, back in 2000, Dick Cheney and Joe Lieberman had an extremely civil, almost genial conversation around that table, which was a big help to Cheney, because Cheney, depending on how he comes across, he could either be Yoda or Mr. Burns from "The Simpsons."

He could either be this wise guy -- I don't mean wise guy, but a wise person who knows all, or this conniving guy who played around with intelligence. And the way to think about it is, Cheney has to find a very easygoing way of saying, you know what, if you vote for John Kerry, you're more likely to die.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: And a lot of Democrats were really angry at Joe Lieberman for not going for the jugular four years ago. You remember that, Carlos.

WATSON: I do.

But -- and you know what is interesting here, Edwards, who is renowned as a trial lawyer, built a $30, $40 million dollar fortune being an advocate, if you will, has got to be a prosecutor, has got to switch hats in this campaign. And you're right. He has got to go hard after him. And he's got to surprise him, Wolf. He can't just go after them on domestic policy, which you know he will do. He has got to go after them not just on foreign policy, not just on the war on Iraq, but on the war on terrorism.

He's got to talk about what happened before 9/11. He's got to talk about the August 6 memo. You have got to hear him talk about the 9/11 Commission and whether or not Vice President Cheney and President Bush supported it. I think that's the key to him not only winning the debate, but also helping the broader ticket.

BLITZER: What is favored going into this debate?

GREENFIELD: I haven't called my Las Vegas friends, but because of the format, I think people think this plays to Cheney's strength.

BLITZER: It does play to his strengths.

GREENFIELD: That, if you are on a podium standing up for an hour and a half, separated, you can be more prosecutorial. One of John Edwards' problems is, if you remember him in the primaries, he was like the "Saturday Night Live" unfrozen cave man lawyer sketch. He used his body and his hands to make his point. That's what lawyers do.

You can't do that sitting down at a table. So the idea of a genial affect, a genial tone, which conceals or rather covers very tough charges -- Dick Cheney is basically saying, John Kerry and John Edwards are a danger to your safety, that format probably favors the vice president.

BLITZER: What do you think, Carlos?

WATSON: Very interesting third actor here, Gwen Ifill, the moderator. I think her questions are going to be perceived as maybe some of the spiciest questions of all the four debates we'll have. And so I would watch that.

For someone like Edwards, who is a trial lawyer, who is quick on his feet, while the format is sitting down and not standing up, all six feet of him and young and good-looking as he is, may hurt him a little bit, the fact that some of these tough and maybe surprising questions, if he responds well to them, it could help him and he could have a break-out, memorable moment.

BLITZER: I know Gwen Ifill quite well. And we go back covering a lot of campaigns. I suspect her questions are going to be pointed and sharp.

GREENFIELD: And what Cheney is terrific at is deflecting those sharp questions by just taking a breath and saying, well, you know, if you saw as much as I saw, here is what we know.

I do expect John Edwards, even though he would rather talk about domestic policies maybe, to turn to Iraq and the war on terror.

BLITZER: We've got to leave it right here, but a lot more coming up. All three of us will be back tonight for extensive live coverage around the debate.

Jeff, Carlos, thanks very much.

WATSON: See you then.

BLITZER: We'll have the results of our Web question of the day. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in on our Web question of the day. Take a look at these results, 50/50. Remember, it's not a scientific poll.

I'll be back later tonight with my colleagues, Anderson Cooper, Paula Zahn, the entire CNN election team. Stay with us.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired October 5, 2004 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: It's happening right now. The vice president and the man who wants his job face off in just four hours here in Cleveland. What, if anything, could trip up the vice president and will he lose his famous cool? And what, if anything, could trap Senator John Edwards? Can he go head to head with Dick Cheney? Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: The understudies take center stage. Is one too sour and the other too sweet? We'll ask former CNN anchor and former debate moderator Bernard Shaw.

Bremer's bombshell. Stunning criticism from the former U.S. point man in Iraq. Could his timing be any worse for the Bush administration?

Casualty of war. Her son was killed in action.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Soldiers come from our family. I'm very proud of him.

ANNOUNCER: Did she die of a broken heart?

And flu fears. Just as Americans start lining up for shots, word of a serious vaccine shortage. What it means for you.

Live from Cleveland, Ohio, site of the vice presidential debate, this is a special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Hello. We're here at the Cleveland Museum of Art, near the campus of Case Western Reserve University. That's the scene of the debate that will unfold in a few hours. Thanks very much for joining us.

Tonight it's the second team's turn. The stars are sitting this one out. The president at the White House preparing for his own next showdown and planning to watch this one on TV. Senator Kerry on the campaign trail, squeezing out every bit of mileage from last week's matchup.

We'll go live to CNN's John King and Candy Crowley who tell us how the running mates plan to debate. But we begin with those striking, surprising comments from the administration's ex- administrator in Iraq, Ambassador Paul Bremer who said the United States simply did not deploy enough troops in Iraq. Here is our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Since the end of the war, the Bush administration has been insisting it has plenty of troops in Iraq while critics have been saying it's clear that there's a short fall. Today, it appears that Paul Bremer has come down on the side of the critics.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): Former Iraq administrator Paul Bremer now admits what critics have been saying for a year and a half, the U.S. did not send enough troops to keep the peace. We never had enough troops on the ground, Bremer told an insurance conference Monday. And in remarks at DePaul University last month that drew little attention at the time, Bremer went even further, telling a student forum, "the one thing that would have improved the situation would have been having more troops in Iraq at the beginning and throughout." Bremer's second guessing is political dynamite and was seized on by John Kerry to buttress his argument the war plan was flawed.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now Paul Bremer is saying what a terrible mistake it was. The president needs to take accountability for his own judgments.

MCINTYRE: In a clarifying statement Bremer says there are now enough troops in Iraq and insists his comments referred to his belief when he arrived in May of 2003 that more U.S. or Iraqi forces were needed to contain looting in the immediate aftermath of the invasion. At the time, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld dismissed the looting saying that war is imperfect and stuff happens.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: And it's untidy and freedom is untidy and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things.

MCINTYRE: Bremer said he shared his concerns, but it's not clear whether he argued for more troops with military commanders or Secretary Rumsfeld.

"Although I raised the issue a number of times with our government, I should have been more insistent," he said.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: The Bush campaign issued a statement saying while Ambassador Bremer differed with commanders in the field and that was his right, the White House said that President Bush relied on the Pentagon and military commanders for the best advice on troop requirements -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre, thanks very much. The CIA is about to release what's being called new evidence that Iraq made small quantities of biological weapons in recent years. That word from U.S. officials who say the weapons for probably for use in assassinations, not for mass casualty attacks. The information is in a report to be presented to the U.S. Congress tomorrow.

Sources say it will endorse an earlier finding that Iraq did not have WMD stockpiles at the time of the U.S.-led invasion, but that it did seek to retain the capability to make weapons in the future.

Now to the running mates debate. It's the world of -- some debate that the world will be watching tonight, the veteran vice president against the sharp, some would say too sharp, young senator. We begin with our senior White House correspondent, John King, who is keeping a close eye on Dick Cheney -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The Bush administration or the Bush/Cheney campaign certainly hoping that experience gap, Mr. Cheney in government and politics for nearly 40 years, Senator Edwards just shy of 6 years. The Bush/Cheney campaign believes that helps them tonight entering for the decided advantage when it comes to experience in the government but just because of the story you just aired, also a tough night for Vice President Cheney. He, of course, is one of the key architects of the Iraq war strategy. He of course has been perhaps the most outspoken person in the administration, insisting Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, was trying to redevelop his nuclear weapons program and should be taken down from power.

Now of course these questions from the Ambassador Bremer about whether there were sufficient troops in Iraq. That has been a persistent and consistent criticism of Democrats including Senator Kerry. So look for that to come up tonight as the vice president makes his case that the president is the right man to continue leading the war on terrorism and that he is the right man to be the vice president standing at his side.

You can expect sharp questions again about Iraq's strategy. Not just from the Democrats now that Bremer has added his voice to that debate. We are told Vice President Cheney tonight will keep most of his focus on Senator Kerry but he does hope just by sitting at the same table, they hope the voters look and say they want the more experienced Mr. Cheney as the vice president for the next four years.

In addition to the expected questions about Iraq and the war on terror, they also expect sharp exchanges over the economy. We've seen that from both candidates this past week. Vice President Cheney, we're told going into this debate, is prepared to make the case that the economy is coming back quite nicely and that the Democrats would raise taxes and hurt the economy. Wolf, obviously a generational contrast, an experience contrast, most of all, the Bush/Cheney campaign looking for the vice president to turn on a strong showing to calm the jitters some Republicans had after the president's showing in the first debate last week which most Republicans now concede is not so stellar.

BLITZER: John, how much of a setback is Ambassador Bremer's surprising comments? KING: Well, the White House says it is not a setback but it certainly would be a sharp question tonight. The White House is hoping its answer will carry the day, and that is that Ambassador Bremer had his opinion, he stated his opinion but the president in the end sided with the military commanders on the ground who said they did not need more troops.

Now, Senator Kerry frequently makes the case that those commanders were intimidated into not asking for more troops. That is one of the key points in this debate but the White House says Ambassador Bremer had his say but it is the generals on the ground who had the most sway with the president.

BLITZER: John King reporting for us. Thanks very much. Let's go to our senior political correspondent Candy Crowley. Candy, what they call a good talker, they say that John Edwards is a very good talker. Is he ready, according to his aides, for this debate tonight?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. They say he is ready to rock and roll. This is a man where -- by the way, they welcome the contrast here. Take everything that John just said and reverse it. And that is how the Edwards' team sees this playing out tonight. They believe that when voters look at Cheney, they will see the face of old ways. When they look at John Edwards, they will see the face of new ways. This is something on Cheney's record, that they're not going to run from. They're going to embrace it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I mean, there couldn't be a starker contrast. I do not have the same view. I do not have the same view of the world as Dick Cheney. That's a good thing. That's not a bad thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: For instance, John Kerry -- I'm sorry, John Edwards will look at Dick Cheney's record and tie it as closely as he possibly can to George Bush. They want to continue what they believe John Kerry started in his debate with George Bush, and that is they say hold this administration accountable. They say Cheney, who has been lauded as the most powerful vice president ever is as every bit as much responsible for what's going on in Iraq as George Bush.

So they want to continue that conversation. They also believe that on the matter of experience, they can say, sure, experience in Washington, Cheney wins, but when you're talking about life experience, which is what John Edwards likes to talk about, he, of course, was a very successful trial lawyer, a personal injury lawyer. They have framed him all along as a person who has always stood up for the little guy. That's something they've taken and put on the campaign trail. In fact, in that town hall meeting that you just saw that he had today, he talked about how when I went into that debate, it's you I'm going to be talking for. So they like that image of a big Washington power broker versus a man who spent his life, they say, standing up for little people -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Candy Crowley, thank you very much.

Who is more likely to win tonight? According to a new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, the public simply can't decide. Asked who will do a better job in the debate, 42 percent said Edwards, 40 percent said Cheney, 15 percent said they were unsure. The candidates certainly offer about as clear a choice as you're likely to encounter. For that, let's turn to our Brian Todd. He's in Washington -- Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's been evident throughout this campaign and from the moment they enter the stage tonight the contrast between Dick Cheney and John Edwards will be clear.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): By general perception, they couldn't be more different. As debaters and political speakers, Dick Cheney and John Edwards present strong contrasts, polar opposite characteristics that have served each man well.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: I think the word that is often applying to Edwards is populist, meaning he connects with people. Cheney's experience does reassure a lot of voters in very difficult times that he will be there and he knows what to do.

TODD: Cheney, the Washington insider with an impressive resume, who critics say can turn people off with his sarcastic biting presentation.

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT: There is, I must the view now that having joined with Al Gore on the ticket of the other side, that depth of conviction that we'd admired before isn't quite as strong.

TODD: Edwards, a relative newcomer to Washington who has recently gotten comfortable in attack mode, but who rose to prominence with a positive message and sunny delivery.

EDWARDS: I want you to keep one thing in mind the whole time. Hope is on the way.

TODD: Despite their contrasting styles, they share important skills. Aides have repeatedly seen Cheney read copiously through massive briefing books, then cut to the core of an issue with amazing focus. Observing him as a personal injury lawyer, allies and opponents marveled as Edwards broke down complicated subject matter and connected with his audience without condescending to them.

AMY WALTER, COOK POLITICAL REPORT: Clearly you have two very smart men and two men who have made their careers off their ability to retain information and to be able to project strength and knowledge and smarts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: Still, analysts say tonight isn't so much about each man's individual strengths as it is about their ability to convince voters of their boss' strengths -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Brian Todd, thanks very much. To our viewers, here's your chance to weigh in on this question. Our question of the day is this, do vice presidential candidates influence your votes in presidential elections? You can vote. Go to CNN.com/wolf. We'll have the results later this hour.

Our special coverage of tonight's vice presidential debate will continue ahead. CNN's Carlos Watson and Jeff Greenfield, they'll join me live here in Cleveland.

Plus, significant vaccine shortage. Why you and your family may be unprotected from the flu this season.

Rebuilding after battle. It was the city almost destroyed after a U.S. military offensive. Now Iraqis in Samarra trying to rebuild their lives.

And later...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor, if Kitty Dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Bernard Shaw made history with that question to then presidential candidate Michael Dukakis. He also moderated the 2000 debate between Dick Cheney and Joe Lieberman. Bernard Shaw will join us live. He'll share his experiences leading up to tonight's debate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: More politics from here in Cleveland coming up. We're getting word right now of new violence in Gaza. The Israeli military says a rocket fired from a drone killed two suspected militants outside the Jabalya refugee camp in northern Gaza. A field commander in the Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades tells CNN the men were brothers. In addition, both sides say eight people were wounded in the attack, four of them critically. Israel is now one week into a new military offensive in Gaza that it says is designed to end Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel. CNN producer Talal Aburahma is in Gaza City. He's joining us now live on the phone with more. Talal, give us the latest. What's happening right now?

TALAL ABURAHMA, CNN PRODUCER: Well, about one hour ago, a drone fired one rocket was fired at the group, Al Aksa Brigade, killed two, injured another four, two of them in a critical case. According to a leader, a field commander in Al Aksa Brigade, told me by the phone drone fired (UNINTELLIGIBLE) at a group from Al Aksa Brigade, they were (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and they are ready for the tanks if the tanks try to enter Jabalya camp. According to the hospital sources they confirmed there are two dead and two critical and six injured. There's been a lot of shooting in the area up to this minute there and the people in Jabalya camp, they still wait about this incursion. And the older faction, day and night, they are on high alarm against this insurgent. A lot of these people up to this minute, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) more than 80 people, most of them are from militant group.

BLITZER: Talal Aburahma, thanks very much for that update. Reporting breaking news live report from Gaza. We'll continue to monitor that story for you, our viewers.

It's been another deadly day of car bombings and shootings in Iraq. It's also the start of another major American-led operation against insurgents in the central part of the country. This one is similar to the just ended offensive to regain control of the city of Samarra. For now, the insurgents apparently have melted away and many Iraqis in the city wish the Americans would leave as well. At least, that's what they're telling our reporters. CNN's Jane Arraf reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Tentatively, the citizens of Samarra emerge to calculate the cost of battle. Near the sacred Imam Ali Shrine, where some of the most intense fighting took place, women and children are beginning to venture out. Forty-eight hours ago, we were on this street when it was ringing with gunfire. The fighting has stopped, but as you can see from these shuttered shops, it's a long way from normal.

(voice-over): Children have been hired to sweep the streets. They get $10 each, money the Americans channel through the local government.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you happy that the Americans are here?

ARRAF: The boy is non-committal.

It's clear the civil affairs team has an uphill battle.

"It all came down on us, the kids," says this boy with an anti- ammunition box.

A retired construction worker tells the U.S. troops he saw a baby shot in front of his eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we don't shoot babies.

ARRAF: Mahmud (ph) insists U.S. soldiers opened fire when the car ignored warnings to stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn't it better now that the terrorists are gone?

ARRAF: "It would be better if the Americans left," Mahmud (ph) answers.

Lieutenant Colonel Kirk Fernitz agrees, but says first they need to help the government here get back on its feet.

LT. COL. KIRK FERNITZ, U.S. ARMY: Tell him that we're going to be working with his local city council.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to get in, to confirm it.

ARRAF: Down the street, U.S. and Iraqi special forces have raided a tailor's shop. They say they have no firm evidence, but they suspect it might belong to a main financial backer of the insurgency.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know where you live.

ARRAF: The U.S. Special Forces dictate a note to the translator to leave for him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to give yourself up to the nearest coalition forces. If you don't give up, we're going to hunt you down until we find you.

ARRAF: In the streets, Iraqi police are returning to work. This group says it's true the insurgents have targeted police, but they wish American forces had never come here.

"From the time they came until now, we have nothing. Everything has been turned upside down," says this police officer.

Nearby, a corner grocery store is the only shop open for blocks. The owner, Mohammed Riadh Ahmed (ph), says there isn't enough business to stay open.

"There is no one here. They see the Americans and they're afraid," he says.

But one of the religious figures from the Golden Shrine tells us he is grateful to the U.S. forces.

"Thank God they came and rid us of those evil doers. They were destroying the city," says Isaeed Marwan Mohammed (ph). He says he's just happy to have his mosque back.

Jane Arraf, CNN, Samarra.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And amid all of this is yet another developing story unfolding at the United Nations. Right now, let's bring in our senior U.N. correspondent, Richard Roth -- Richard.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the United States just vetoed a Middle East resolution pushed by the Palestinians that would have called for a halt in Israel's military offensive in northern Gaza. The United States ambassador John Danforth, the only hand in the air, but because the U.S. has permanent veto power, the resolution is dead. Ambassador Danforth saying it was a lopsided, unbalanced resolution, and that in effect, United States is tired of these continuous resolutions against Israel. Algeria, which wanted the resolution, says the U.S. veto sends the wrong signal. Eleven in favor, three abstentions, but the U.S. veto kills it -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Israel very, very happy with that United States veto. Thanks very much, Richard Roth, for that.

An ominous sign for the flu season, right here in the United States. That's coming up, why health officials are predicting a shortage of flu vaccine. This is information we all need to know about.

Also, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: War takes soldiers. Soldiers come from our families.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: But the soldier son was only the first devastating loss for this family. Details of a heart wrenching twist.

And inside the vice presidential debate. We'll hear from the man who moderated the last vice presidential face-off, the former CNN anchor Bernard Shaw. He'll join us live. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: More political news coming up, including the lead-up to the debate here in Cleveland tonight. But let's check some other stories, important stories, specifically health-related.

Just as the flu season is about to begin, American health officials are warning of major flu vaccine shortages. It's a stunning development, and it's the result of action taken in Britain against an American company. Our medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, is at the CNN Center in Atlanta. She is joining us now with details -- Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, there have been shortages of the flu vaccine in the past, but this time, it promises to be much worse.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN (voice-over): It couldn't have happened at a worse time. Nearly half of the nation's supply of flu shots will now not be available, because of fears the vaccine might have been contaminated during the production process at the Chiron Corporation. And this just as the flu shot season was getting under way.

HOWARD PIEN, CHIRON CEO: We profoundly, and I cannot overemphasize how profoundly, we profoundly regret that we will be unable to meet public health needs this season.

COHEN: The timing is especially bad, because many expected last year's severe flu season would mean even more people lining up for shots this year.

TOMMY THOMPSON, HHS SECRETARY: This is very disappointing news that creates a serious challenge to our vaccine supply for the upcoming flu season.

COHEN: The government's strategy now, give flu shots only to those who really need it.

THOMPSON: Our immediate focus will be on making sure that the supply of vaccine we do have reaches those who are the most vulnerable.

COHEN: The CDC says among those who should get flu shots first, children ages 6 to 23 months, adults over age 65, adults and children with chronic illnesses, pregnant women, and anyone who could spread the flu to those at high risk.

And health officials say everyone else should wait until those who really need the shots get them first.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN: Now, there should not be a shortage of flu shots for kids, and that's because a different company makes the pediatric vaccine -- Wolf.

BLITZER: It seems almost every season, we get these reports of a shortage of the vaccine. Why can't they simply make a lot more of it, Elizabeth?

COHEN: Well, they certainly wish that they could right now start making a lot more. At this point, that would be a very hard thing to do. The vaccine takes a long time. They have to grow it. It's a very long and tedious process. And the reason why this time is that they just found contamination. They didn't think that they had to make anymore. They didn't think that this was going to be a problem.

BLITZER: Elizabeth Cohen reporting on important news we all need to know about -- Elizabeth, thank you very much.

Some on the Democrats' side are calling it the H-bomb. Will it be dropped tonight in the vice presidential debate tonight here in Cleveland? Up next, Halliburton and Dick Cheney.

Also, stealing the spotlight. It's their one and only face-off. Can either vice presidential candidate stand out in America's eyes? I'll ask the former debate moderator Bernard Shaw. He moderated the vice presidential debate four years ago.

And blowing off steam again, new rumblings at Mount Saint Helens in Washington state for the second straight day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

In the campaign spotlight, one name is likely to come up during tonight's vice presidential debate. I'll explain.

First, though, a quick check of some other stories now in the news.

A car bomb attack against a U.S. military convoy today killed three Iraqi civilians in the northern city of Mosul. Three other Iraqi civilians and four American soldiers were wounded. After the explosion, the convoy came under rocket-propelled grenade and small- arms fire.

Washington's Mount Saint Helens belched steam and ash into the sky once again today, prompting an ash fall advisory from the National Weather Service. Experts say small incidents like this could continue without a large-scale eruption ever occurring. As one put it, we may never see the main course. On the other, we may.

Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

Now back to tonight's vice presidential debate, where Democrat John Edwards is almost certain to bring up the subject of Halliburton. That's the company Dick Cheney ran before he became vice president. And Democrats say there's a continuing relationship.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The only people that George Bush's policies are really working for are the people that he chooses to help. It's working for the drug companies. It's working for the oil companies. It's working for the HMOs. And it's certainly working for Halliburton.

BLITZER (voice-over): It's become a major weapon in the Democratic arsenal, an H-bomb, if you will, with the H standing for Halliburton.

Halliburton is the biggest U.S. military contractor in Iraq. And Dick Cheney was Halliburton's CEO from 1995 until 2000, the year he was elected vice president. Critics have accused Cheney of steering business to his old company, something he has persistently denied. Immediately after the election, but before he took office, Cheney received $1.6 million from Halliburton in a deferred bonus and deferred salary. And he has received some $400,000 since as part of an agreement with Halliburton made before the 2000 election.

But Cheney insisted in an interview with me earlier this year, he has no financial interest in the success or failure of the company.

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What I have done is taken out an insurance policy that will guarantee the payment of what Halliburton owes me, whether Halliburton succeeds or fails. If they go belly up tomorrow, it will not affect my financial status one iota.

BLITZER: In a commercial on its Web site, Halliburton says it has no special relationship with the vice president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're serving the troops because of what we know, not who we know.

BLITZER: One journalist who has written about Halliburton says while there may be suspicions about Cheney's relationship with the company, no one has produced a smoking gun.

MARK HOSENBALL, "NEWSWEEK": And there are certainly allegations that it's a bit fishy that Halliburton got all these no-bid contracts, or at least got some of these no-bid contracts, but nobody has ever come up with any proof that Cheney's office or Cheney himself arranged that or rigged that in any way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The last vice presidential debate between Dick Cheney and Joe Lieberman was in 2000, exactly four years ago. It was moderated by CNN's own Bernard Shaw.

The former anchorman is joining us now live from Washington with some insights into tonight's debate.

Bernie, thanks very much for joining us.

You were right there between Lieberman and Cheney. Looking ahead to tonight, looking back to Cheney's style, what goes through your mind? What should we brace for tonight, Bernie?

BERNARD SHAW, FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE MODERATOR: I think you can brace for what I think will be a brass-knuckled night barely concealed by velvet gloves.

After the debate between Senator Lieberman and Dick Cheney at Centre College in Danville, Kentucky, four years ago, each man told me, Wolf -- and this is very interesting -- each man said he was ready to put on the brass knuckles, to reach down under the table and come up with heavy ammunition if the other candidate had done so. Cheney told me that and Joe Lieberman told me that.

This format affects the two candidates seated at that table. Think of it, a round table, Gwen Ifill, the moderator, sitting opposite them. The two candidates are less than three feet apart. That kind of format imposes stability. It imposes decorum. It's very hard to raise your voice when your opponent is sitting right at your elbow. So expect these candidates to speak in conversational tones, low voices, unless and until one or the other does something that the other does not like.

You can read Cheney's chagrin and disagreement very readily. He has a tendency to go like that. And he cuts his eyes across to his opponent. There will probably be a lot of that going on tonight. I think that you can expect John Edwards to attack, attack, attack tonight. And you can expect Cheney to defend, defend and counterattack. Gwen Ifill is going to have her hands full tonight.

BLITZER: Bernie, I also know, having covered Dick Cheney for many, many years, going back to when he was the defense secretary and I was the Pentagon correspondent, even earlier when he was White House chief under President Ford, he is very, very cool, but -- but he does have some buttons that can be pushed.

SHAW: Yes.

BLITZER: And he could lose that cool under certain very rare, but certain circumstances. Is that your impression?

SHAW: That's my impression. Dick Cheney has a short fuse when provoked. And John Edwards is going to have to be very, very careful. He runs the risk of stepping over the line and appearing arrogant. That camera does not lie. These two men are under intense pressure tonight. And each is out there tonight, of course, in Cleveland, to promote the head of the ticket, not themselves.

BLITZER: Take us into the mind, if you will, of a moderator of a debate along these lines. Gwen Ifill tonight of PBS will be moderating this debate. You did it four years ago. We all remember that question you posed to Michael Dukakis in 1988. How do you prepare as a moderator, as a questioner for this kind of historic encounter?

SHAW: Well, you take very seriously the responsibility of being moderator. And you don't take it personally. This is not an ego trip at all. And your head is not in the clouds. If your head is in the clouds, you don't belong in that chair.

It is an awesome responsibility and you are there as a journalist to ask questions of these candidates, ask questions and get out of the way, so that, in responding to those questions, voters watching these gentlemen will get a very good idea where they stand on the issues and how they differ. A moderator works weeks and weeks on these questions. And the questions are related to the issues in the campaign. They don't come out of the blue.

I'm concerned tonight about the moderator. These two men have such high energy levels and they have such commitment that, when they go at it, I think that Gwen Ifill is going to be asked and challenged to extend debate for a minute. And if that happens continually tonight in those 90 minutes, the number of questions she's going to be able to ask will go down.

One of the things Cheney is very good at is rebutting something that he feels is not true or that he does not like and doing it on the spot. That happened a lot between Cheney and Lieberman at the Centre College debate four years ago.

BLITZER: Bernard Shaw for us here -- not here in Cleveland, but in Washington -- Bernie, thanks as usual, very much.

SHAW: Thank you. Always good to be with you.

BLITZER: All right.

And our special coverage of tonight's debate will continue. Just ahead, I'll speak live with Jeff Greenfield, Carlos Watson. They're here in Cleveland. We'll assess what's next.

Also coming up, the agony of war. A mother's son dies in Iraq. Did she then die of heartbreak?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The heartbreak of war has been compounded for an Arizona family who lost not only a son in Iraq, but a wife and a mother here at home.

CNN's Michael Schulder has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL SCHULDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More than 1,060 American mothers have gotten the knock on the door since the war began.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you know exactly what they're here for when they come to your door like that.

SCHULDER: They had come to tell her that her son, Army Specialist Robert Unruh, had been killed in action in a place called Al Anbar Province, west of Baghdad.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They came under enemy attack. And Robby was wounded with small-arms fire in the abdomen. They took him to the trauma MASH unit, where the doctor pronounced him.

SCHULDER: Specialist Unruh enlisted in the Army because he wanted to help protect his country after September 11. A week ago, after his death, Specialist Unruh's family spoke to reporters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want everybody to know how proud we were of Robby. Robby gave his life so that others could live under the freedom of a democracy, as we do.

SCHULDER: Robert Unruh's mother said her son's death has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with honor. But honor was not enough to sustain her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: War takes soldiers. Soldiers come from our family.

SCHULDER: After learning of her son's death, she complained of chest pains. Her husband spoke of her broken heart. Friends say she could not stop crying. Saturday morning, she viewed her son's body. Saturday night, she collapsed in her kitchen and died. Specialist Robert Unruh will be buried Friday at the Southern Arizona Veterans Memorial Ceremony. In the funeral procession, his body will be accompanied by that of his mother.

Michael Schulder, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: One family's deep, deep sacrifice. What a tragedy.

The war in Iraq will certainly be front and center tonight when the running mates face off in the debate. Our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield, and political analyst, Carlos Watson, they will have a ringside seat for tonight's debate. When we come back, we'll ask them if there will be any October surprises, at least tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: So, what do we expect tonight from these two vice presidential candidates?

Let's get some analysis. Joining us are two analysts, Jeff Greenfield, Carlos Watson, who will be with us all night tonight.

Jeff, what are you looking for specifically?

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Really want to see who these candidates target.

If you remember back in '92 when Dan Quayle almost ignored Al Gore, he was going after Clinton. It's pretty clear that the Bush campaign thinks that John Kerry has revived himself after a very rough six weeks. And I think they're looking for Dick Cheney to raise new doubts, particularly about the war on terror.

And I think, in the case of John Edwards, the temptation is to go after Dick Cheney as corporate man, Halliburton man. But he's got a job to try to question President Bush.

BLITZER: So what you're saying is that Dick Cheney will go after not necessarily John Edwards. He will go after John Kerry.

GREENFIELD: And then the question is, will Edwards respond in kind by sort of ignoring the tempting target of the former CEO of Halliburton and train his sights on Bush? And we'll see.

BLITZER: That's the vice presidential running mate's responsibility.

GREENFIELD: It's supposed to be, yes.

BLITZER: Because, normally, that is what he's going to be doing.

Carlos, what are you looking at?

CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I actually -- I agree with Jeff.

But I think it's important for Cheney here to give the Republicans the boost, shot in the arm, if you will. I think they need a win. I think, even in the head-to-head debate with Edwards, there needs to be a stature gap as he talks about the various issues, both domestic and foreign policy wise. He got to show that there's a real difference.

Secondly, I think, from Cheney's perspective, the other thing he wants to do, I say scare, but don't be scary. He wants to underscore that terrorism is a critical issue. You need a certain sort of team in this post-9/11 era. But he can't be scary to those security moms that we talk about, Jeff.

GREENFIELD: If you remember, back in 2000, Dick Cheney and Joe Lieberman had an extremely civil, almost genial conversation around that table, which was a big help to Cheney, because Cheney, depending on how he comes across, he could either be Yoda or Mr. Burns from "The Simpsons."

He could either be this wise guy -- I don't mean wise guy, but a wise person who knows all, or this conniving guy who played around with intelligence. And the way to think about it is, Cheney has to find a very easygoing way of saying, you know what, if you vote for John Kerry, you're more likely to die.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: And a lot of Democrats were really angry at Joe Lieberman for not going for the jugular four years ago. You remember that, Carlos.

WATSON: I do.

But -- and you know what is interesting here, Edwards, who is renowned as a trial lawyer, built a $30, $40 million dollar fortune being an advocate, if you will, has got to be a prosecutor, has got to switch hats in this campaign. And you're right. He has got to go hard after him. And he's got to surprise him, Wolf. He can't just go after them on domestic policy, which you know he will do. He has got to go after them not just on foreign policy, not just on the war on Iraq, but on the war on terrorism.

He's got to talk about what happened before 9/11. He's got to talk about the August 6 memo. You have got to hear him talk about the 9/11 Commission and whether or not Vice President Cheney and President Bush supported it. I think that's the key to him not only winning the debate, but also helping the broader ticket.

BLITZER: What is favored going into this debate?

GREENFIELD: I haven't called my Las Vegas friends, but because of the format, I think people think this plays to Cheney's strength.

BLITZER: It does play to his strengths.

GREENFIELD: That, if you are on a podium standing up for an hour and a half, separated, you can be more prosecutorial. One of John Edwards' problems is, if you remember him in the primaries, he was like the "Saturday Night Live" unfrozen cave man lawyer sketch. He used his body and his hands to make his point. That's what lawyers do.

You can't do that sitting down at a table. So the idea of a genial affect, a genial tone, which conceals or rather covers very tough charges -- Dick Cheney is basically saying, John Kerry and John Edwards are a danger to your safety, that format probably favors the vice president.

BLITZER: What do you think, Carlos?

WATSON: Very interesting third actor here, Gwen Ifill, the moderator. I think her questions are going to be perceived as maybe some of the spiciest questions of all the four debates we'll have. And so I would watch that.

For someone like Edwards, who is a trial lawyer, who is quick on his feet, while the format is sitting down and not standing up, all six feet of him and young and good-looking as he is, may hurt him a little bit, the fact that some of these tough and maybe surprising questions, if he responds well to them, it could help him and he could have a break-out, memorable moment.

BLITZER: I know Gwen Ifill quite well. And we go back covering a lot of campaigns. I suspect her questions are going to be pointed and sharp.

GREENFIELD: And what Cheney is terrific at is deflecting those sharp questions by just taking a breath and saying, well, you know, if you saw as much as I saw, here is what we know.

I do expect John Edwards, even though he would rather talk about domestic policies maybe, to turn to Iraq and the war on terror.

BLITZER: We've got to leave it right here, but a lot more coming up. All three of us will be back tonight for extensive live coverage around the debate.

Jeff, Carlos, thanks very much.

WATSON: See you then.

BLITZER: We'll have the results of our Web question of the day. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in on our Web question of the day. Take a look at these results, 50/50. Remember, it's not a scientific poll.

I'll be back later tonight with my colleagues, Anderson Cooper, Paula Zahn, the entire CNN election team. Stay with us.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com