Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live At Daybreak

Gloves Come Off as Vice Presidential Candidates Go Head to Head; George W. Bush and John Kerry Preparing to Meet for Second Debate

Aired October 06, 2004 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And senator, frankly, you have a record in the Senate that's not very distinguished.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mr. Vice President, I don't think the country can take four more years of this kind of experience.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And there we go, the gloves comes off as the V.P. candidates go head-to-head.

It is Wednesday.

It is October 6.

This is DAYBREAK.

And good morning, everyone.

From the CNN Global Headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Rick Sanchez sitting in for Carol Costello.

Now the news.

The final report from the weapons inspectors who scoured Iraq goes into a Senate panel today. The main conclusion is basically this -- Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction at the time of the U.S. invasion. But the report also says that he was seeking to revive his WMD programs at some point.

Meantime, in Iran, a top nuclear official tells the A.P. his nation has processed a few tons of raw uranium. Iran says it's for peaceful purposes, not for building weapons.

A delay in South Korea, where the U.S. plans to pull out a third of its forces. The withdrawal is going to still happen, but the deadline has now been pushed back to 2008 rather than next year.

And in Iraq today, new hopes for an end to the violence in the Baghdad slums. An Iraqi source tells CNN the interim government may be close to a deal to end weeks of deadly fighting, at least in Sadr City.

Let's take you now over to Chad and find out what's going on with the weather. A big baseball fan over here -- hey, Chad.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Rick.

And welcome to DAYBREAK.

I got a nice letter from Sharon in Nashville who said hey, good to see you, Rick, on CNN. Used to watch you on MSC. Thought you were the best.

SANCHEZ: Thanks.

MYERS: Good to see you're back on.

SANCHEZ: Love you, Sharon.

You, too, Chad.

MYERS: Is your mom named Sharon?

SANCHEZ: Yes. Sharon, actually.

MYERS: Actually.

Hey, good morning, everybody.

(WEATHER REPORT)

SANCHEZ: Hey, 27 days and counting until the presidential election. George Bush and John Kerry are preparing to meet for their second debate Friday. Both were no doubt watching as their second in commands squared off for their one and only debate last night. Vice President Dick Cheney and Senator John Edwards, experience versus exuberance? Is that fair? A long time political veteran against the former trial attorney.

And as CNN's Chris Huntington reports, it didn't take long for the two to butt heads.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a setting more suited to a Sunday morning talk show than a bare knuckled brawl. But both vice presidential candidates came out swinging and did not pull many punches.

EDWARDS: Mr. Vice President, you are still not being straight with the American people.

CHENEY: The fact of the matter is the big difference here, Gwen, is that they are not prepared to deal with states that sponsor terror.

HUNTINGTON: No surprise, PBS correspondent Gwen Ifill focused her first few questions on Iraq. What was surprising was how quickly the candidates ramped up their personal attacks.

CHENEY: Now, if they couldn't stand up to the pressures that Howard Dean represented, how can we expect them to stand up to al Qaeda?

EDWARDS: A long resume does not equal good judgment.

CHENEY: Your rhetoric, senator, would be a lot more credible if there was a record to back it up.

EDWARDS: While he was CEO of Halliburton, they paid millions of dollars in fines for providing false information on their company, just like Enron and Ken Lay. They did business with Libya and Iran.

CHENEY: The reason they keep trying to attack Halliburton is because they want to obscure their own record. And, senator, frankly, you have a record in the Senate that's not very distinguished. You've got one of the worst attendance records in the United States Senate.

EDWARDS: And I'm surprised to hear him talk about records. When he was one of 435 members of the United States House, he was one of 10 to vote against Head Start, one of four to vote against banning plastic weapons that can pass through metal detectors.

HUNTINGTON: They became more civil over domestic issues, with Cheney pledging to make tax cuts permanent, Edwards promising to roll back those cuts for anyone making more than $200,000. They even agreed over gay marriage and Senator Edwards' respect for the vice president's gay daughter.

CHENEY: Gwen, let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that very much.

EDWARDS: You're welcome.

HUNTINGTON: The candidates closed on different tacks. Senator Edwards invoked the promise of America. Vice President Cheney returned to the war on terror.

GWEN IFILL, PBS, MODERATOR: Thank you, Vice President Cheney.

Senator Edwards.

DAVID GERGEN, KENNEDY SCHOOL, HARVARD: This fought to a draw. The vice president was much more effective in attacking the Kerry plan for Iraq. John Edwards, by contrast, I thought he became much more effective on the domestic questions. Overall, it was a draw.

HUNTINGTON: And that's right where the latest CNN poll puts the two presidential candidates.

Chris Huntington, CNN Financial News, New York.

(END VIDEO TAPE) SANCHEZ: There was something interesting that happened during this debate. It had to do with, well, I guess you'd say a war of words over the Iraq war itself. It's a numbers argument, as well, and they had arguments over a lot of issues.

Let's talk about these.

Joining us now is Chuck Todd.

He's the editor-in-chief of "The Nation's" journal, "Hotline."

Chuck, thanks so much for being with us, my friend.

CHUCK TODD, "THE HOTLINE": Hey, Rick.

SANCHEZ: A big bone of contention, this is this numbers thing about the casualties in Iraq and what percentage have actually been Americans.

Let's let them square the argument.

Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDWARDS: You know, we've taken 90 percent of the coalition casualties. American taxpayers have borne 90 percent of the costs of the effort in Iraq. And we see the result of there not being a coalition. The first Gulf War cost America $5 billion. We're at $200 billion and counting.

CHENEY: The 90 percent figure is just dead wrong. When you include the Iraqi security forces that have suffered casualties, as well as the allies, they've taken almost 50 percent of the casualties in operations in Iraq, which leaves the U.S. with 50 percent, not 90 percent.

With respect to the cost, it wasn't $200 billion. You probably weren't there to vote for that, but $120 billion is, in fact, what has been allocated to Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: An interesting argument, because what Edwards seems to be saying is hey, look, I said coalition losses. I wasn't talking about the Iraqis. They're not a part of the coalition. What the vice president is saying is no, you've got to involve, you've got to include the Iraqis when you do your math on this.

Who's right?

TODD: Well, I'll tell you, that was a -- it was a gutsy decision by Cheney because one of the things that a lot of countries that have been upset with and some even media have been upset with is the lack of acknowledging of the Iraqi deaths. And that's not just the Iraqi forces, but the Iraqi civilians. There are no estimates out there, or very -- the estimates -- there are estimates, but there are no actual numbers.

So it's a gutsy argument. It was pretty good in the debate. One wonders if this is going -- if folks are going to follow-up with even more details of sort of the Iraqi deaths.

SANCHEZ: It's actually really smart when you think about it, isn't it, because he's taking a negative, the fact that Iraqi soldiers that we trained are getting pummeled, and turning it into a positive and saying look, they're dying for us.

TODD: You know, yes, as far as the debate is concerned, yes, I think that's correct. At the end of the day, you know, American voters are Americans first and the thing they focus on is the American deaths.

So I don't know if -- it worked well as a rebuttal that night. I don't know if it's something that they can continue to talk about.

SANCHEZ: What did you make of the whole gay marriage argument? I thought it interesting that it wasn't the vice president who mentioned he had a gay daughter, it was his opponent. And I'm left to wonder if his opponent did that for a very specific reason.

Did you?

TODD: I tell you, I was -- first of all, I thought it was awkward. It was weird. I thought there were two -- I'm still trying to wonder why there were two questions on gay marriage. I think one was sufficient, to be honest. I don't think we needed the second question.

SANCHEZ: Do you think it was a dig at the vice president? Do you think they were trying to get to something that he didn't necessarily want to reveal?

TODD: Oh, absolutely. I mean it was something to try to see if they could get him in a box and I thought the most revealing moment was, you know, he asked Cheney, he thanked him. But then there was a point where he was allowed to give another 30, you know, 30 second update. He said one sentence, you know, well, I've said everything I need to say.

SANCHEZ: Yes, that's a...

TODD: And that was it. And all of a sudden there was like this awkward moment of silence.

SANCHEZ: The producer is saying we've got to go.

Enjoyed talking to you, though.

TODD: OK, great, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Let's do it again.

Chuck Todd, editor-in-chief of "The Hotline." Pollsters already calling voters to see who they think won the debate. ABC News polled registered voters. Let's see, what are the numbers here? Here they go. Ready? Forty-three percent thought the vice president, Dick Cheney, carried the day; 35 percent say it was Senator Edwards; 19 percent said dead even, this thing was a tie.

Did you get the answers that you were looking for from the vice presidential candidates? We here at CNN have put together our own audience to watch the debate, as well.

Our Bill Hemmer helped to get their reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: In our audience quickly, Paul, before this debate began, you told me you wanted to hear these two men tell you what they were going to do.

Did you hear that tonight?

PAUL: Yes, I heard far more definitive answers than I heard from the previous debate between our presidential candidates. I still heard too much he said/she said/you said accusations. But there were some definitive answers to specific questions.

HEMMER: Overall I sense some satisfaction in your voice.

PAUL: Yes. I didn't expect the satisfaction of their answers.

HEMMER: OK, over here to Felicia.

Your big topic tonight was Iraq.

Were you satisfied with what you heard tonight in that conversation?

FELICIA: No, not really. They talked a lot about the war, but I would have liked to hear more about how and when we're pulling the troops out and not how we got there.

HEMMER: Well, Joseph, a final comment here. The whole issue of flip-flop. You were keen on that tonight.

What did you hear? JOSEPH: I think both candidates, vice presidential candidates, missed the boat on the flip-flop issue. I think any reasonable person should take new information as it comes and incorporate it into their decision-making. If you make a decision in 2001 and ignore all that's happened since then, I think you're just being stupid.

HEMMER: Overall, two dozen people here in central Ohio.

Have you made up your mind who you will vote for come November 2?

Let's see a show of hands, yes or no. Just about half, which means you're still a bit undecided. So therefore it takes debate number two between the presidential ticket and then possibly debate number three between George Bush and John Kerry.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

SANCHEZ: There you have it, Bill Hemmer, our colleague, taking care of things for us there in that town forum.

EDWARDS: Got some encouraging words from the boss after the debate. John Kerry called his running mate and wasted no time, as you might expect, congratulating him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The country tonight got a chance to feel the confidence that I in you and now they have gotten into you. They've felt the strength, they felt clarity. You were so strong on correcting the facts. They keep distorting things. And I look forward to going out and just taking on those distortions.

These guys can only resort to fear and distortion and they're unwilling to live with the truth. So you held them accountable and you did a great, great job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: A "candid" phone conversation captured of the senator from Massachusetts.

Kerry is in the Denver area, by the way, where he's prepping for Friday's second presidential debate with George Bush. The two will square off in St. Louis.

And the president, for his part, watched the debate from the White House. He also called his running mate. But the president has more on his agenda today than just debate practice. He's heading to Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania this morning, where he's giving a speech on the war on terror and the economy, we're told, as well. CNN will bring you the president's speech live. That's at 10:30 a.m. Eastern time right here, 7:00 Pacific.

No weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. That is the final word from the chief U.S. -- pardon me -- yes, U.S. weapons inspector, Charles Duelfer. He delivers a 1,500 page report to the Senate Armed Services Committee today. Senior administration officials say the findings will show that former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had no stockpiles at the time of the U.S. invasion last year, but that Saddam Hussein wanted to revive his weapons program if international sanctions ended.

As you know, President Bush's main argument for war was that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction at the time. Another of the Bush administration's prewar allegations is coming into question. There's a new CIA report that finds no conclusive evidence that Saddam Hussein harbored Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. He is the militant believed to have masterminded many of the suicide bombings, kidnappings and beheadings in Iraq. Before the war, the Bush administration portrayed Zarqawi as al Qaeda's link to Saddam Hussein.

The White House is now shrugging off some critical comments from Paul Bremer that were received yesterday. The former civilian administrator in Iraq says that the U.S. needed more of a presence just after the invasion. A military presence is what he's referring to.

We quote here: "One way to have stopped the looting would have been to have more troops on the ground." He goes on to say: "That's a retrospective wisdom of mine, looking backward. I think there are enough troops there now for the job we are doing." Paul Bremer.

Political posturing or legitimate legislation? Those were the questions that met a House bill that could have paved the way for a reinstitution of the draft. The bill was soundly defeated, 402-2. Republicans charge that Democrats were spreading rumors of a draft to scare the voters. Democrats roundly denied that accusation.

We have so much more for you this morning.

The company that can't deliver on flu vaccines this season is going to feel a lot of pressure, coming up.

And we're going to look at the business of a pending health care crisis in that particular case.

Also, who do you think won the vice presidential debates? We are going to talk to some spin doctors about that.

But first, here's a look at what else is making news on this Wednesday morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Your news, your money, your weather, your sports.

Yes, folks, it's 18 minutes after the hour of 6:00, in the East, mind you.

And here's what's happening this morning.

A government report on Iraq and the search for weapons of mass destruction is going to say that none existed at the time of the U.S. invasion, but the report also is going to say that Saddam Hussein did plan to restart his banned weapons program at some time when U.N. sanctions were lifted.

A military strike in Fallujah targeting a house reportedly used by insurgents to plan attacks on American and Iraqi forces. Three houses destroyed in this air strike. No injuries were reported. In money, another record high for oil prices. Fear over heating oil supplies led to the price of crude oil to top $51 a barrel. Production problems caused by hurricane Ivan have added to the uncertainty as well.

In culture, Michigan Republicans say that documentary filmmaker Michael Moore is illegally bribing college students. They want charges filed because Moore has offered food and clean underwear to students promising to vote in November. We'll leave it alone.

But we won't leave this alone, because it's my favorite baseball team and I'm proud. And I'm saying it this morning, I'm proud. The Minnesota Twins beat the New York Yankees 2-0 in the first game of the American League Division series. My Twinkies also beat the Yankees in game one last year, but then they lost the series.

MYERS: Hey, Rick?

SANCHEZ: All right, so there's always something.

Yes, go ahead.

MYERS: Can you sing the song? Then I'll know you're a Twins fan.

SANCHEZ: Which one?

MYERS: We're gonna win Twins, we're gonna score.

SANCHEZ: All right. See how I turned that around on you? I should have been in a vice presidential debate last night. I got you into it.

MYERS: I know.

Hey, the Bosox won, as well, and obviously St. Louis had a really easy time yesterday.

(WEATHER REPORT)

SANCHEZ: Flu season is on its way, but millions of flu shots aren't headed for the United States.

Carrie Lee has the story.

She's at the Nasdaq marketplace in Times Square -- Carrie, to you.

CARRIE LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you, Rick.

Well, public health officials here in the U.S. are now predicting a flu vaccine shortage this season after Chiron Corporation -- and this is a British vaccine maker -- says it won't be able to make millions of doses of the vaccine due to problems at its British plant.

Now, Chiron had expected to provide about half of the U.S. supply of flu shots for this flu season. But now the British Department of Health is suspending Chiron's manufacturing license for three months, saying problems with the manufacturing process now means that vaccines produced cannot be released for shipment.

So now U.S. public health officials say it's important that a lot of people who received flu shots in the past pass up shots this year to help maintain enough supply for those at risk. In the past, the Centers for Disease Control recommended that people who are 50 or older get the flu shots, as well as infants between six and 23 months, and women who plan to become pregnant this flu season.

You can bet that Chiron Corporation's stock lost ground. It was as low as 36 percent to the down side yesterday. It closed down 16 1/2 percent. We'll see if there's any follow through today.

Meanwhile, checking stocks today, futures are looking pretty flat right now despite the fact that oil closed above $51 a barrel for the first time last night.

One stock to watch today, Merck. The drug giant also in the Dow. The "Wall Street Journal" citing a U.S. regulatory report that Vioxx, its arthritis drug recently taken off the market, have led to more than 27,000 heart attacks and seven cardiac deaths; this before it was withdrawn last week. So we'll be keeping an eye on that Dow component today.

Rick -- back to you.

SANCHEZ: We should mention with that flu shot story that kids are going to be OK because the folks who make their particular flu shot is not affected by this, right?

LEE: That's right, yes. So it doesn't mean that there's not going to be any flu vaccine available, but about half the supply we normally get. So they'/re trying to dole it out very carefully this year.

SANCHEZ: Yes, so adults get the tough part of this, not the kids.

LEE: That's right.

SANCHEZ: Well, if it has to be one way, we'd prefer it go that way.

LEE: Exactly.

SANCHEZ: Thanks, Carrie.

LEE: OK.

SANCHEZ: Appreciate it.

We're going to be right back.

We've got a lot of stuff going on. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Now Across America.

Prosecutors in the Scott Peterson trial have rested their case. The final witness detailed fears that Peterson was planning to possibly flee the country. A Modesto detective talked about camping and survival gear that was found in Peterson's car before his arrest. The prosecution called 174 witnesses over the first 19 weeks of the trial. The defense could take several more months still in this case.

For a third time, the man who killed John Lennon is being denied parole. It's going to be two years before Mark David Chapman is up for parole again. The letter sent on behalf of Lennon's widow asked that Chapman's request for parole be denied.

Comedy legend Rodney Dangerfield died Tuesday, just a week after coming out of a month long coma. Dangerfield made a career out of his self-deprecating humor. His greatest role may have been as a comedy mentor to many of today's top stars who use his material still. Rodney Dangerfield was 82 years old.

Well, battling it out for the number two slot. Much more on last night's vice presidential debate when we at DAYBREAK return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: And good morning, everyone.

From the CNN Global Headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Rick Sanchez.

Carol Costello is off today.

Now in the news, Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction at the time of the U.S. invasion last year, but he may have been planning to revise his WMD programs. That is the final word from the experts sent to Iraq to search for banned weapons. The team delivers its findings to a Senate committee this morning.

The U.S. military launched an air strike on a house in Fallujah, where insurgents were thought to be plotting attacks in Iraq. Three houses, we understand, were destroyed. We're following the story. No injuries reported.

Washington is delaying plans for its troop reduction in South Korea. One third of U.S. troops were to have pulled out of the Peninsula by the end of next year, but the deadline has now been pushed back to 2008.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired October 6, 2004 - 06:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And senator, frankly, you have a record in the Senate that's not very distinguished.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mr. Vice President, I don't think the country can take four more years of this kind of experience.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And there we go, the gloves comes off as the V.P. candidates go head-to-head.

It is Wednesday.

It is October 6.

This is DAYBREAK.

And good morning, everyone.

From the CNN Global Headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Rick Sanchez sitting in for Carol Costello.

Now the news.

The final report from the weapons inspectors who scoured Iraq goes into a Senate panel today. The main conclusion is basically this -- Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction at the time of the U.S. invasion. But the report also says that he was seeking to revive his WMD programs at some point.

Meantime, in Iran, a top nuclear official tells the A.P. his nation has processed a few tons of raw uranium. Iran says it's for peaceful purposes, not for building weapons.

A delay in South Korea, where the U.S. plans to pull out a third of its forces. The withdrawal is going to still happen, but the deadline has now been pushed back to 2008 rather than next year.

And in Iraq today, new hopes for an end to the violence in the Baghdad slums. An Iraqi source tells CNN the interim government may be close to a deal to end weeks of deadly fighting, at least in Sadr City.

Let's take you now over to Chad and find out what's going on with the weather. A big baseball fan over here -- hey, Chad.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Rick.

And welcome to DAYBREAK.

I got a nice letter from Sharon in Nashville who said hey, good to see you, Rick, on CNN. Used to watch you on MSC. Thought you were the best.

SANCHEZ: Thanks.

MYERS: Good to see you're back on.

SANCHEZ: Love you, Sharon.

You, too, Chad.

MYERS: Is your mom named Sharon?

SANCHEZ: Yes. Sharon, actually.

MYERS: Actually.

Hey, good morning, everybody.

(WEATHER REPORT)

SANCHEZ: Hey, 27 days and counting until the presidential election. George Bush and John Kerry are preparing to meet for their second debate Friday. Both were no doubt watching as their second in commands squared off for their one and only debate last night. Vice President Dick Cheney and Senator John Edwards, experience versus exuberance? Is that fair? A long time political veteran against the former trial attorney.

And as CNN's Chris Huntington reports, it didn't take long for the two to butt heads.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a setting more suited to a Sunday morning talk show than a bare knuckled brawl. But both vice presidential candidates came out swinging and did not pull many punches.

EDWARDS: Mr. Vice President, you are still not being straight with the American people.

CHENEY: The fact of the matter is the big difference here, Gwen, is that they are not prepared to deal with states that sponsor terror.

HUNTINGTON: No surprise, PBS correspondent Gwen Ifill focused her first few questions on Iraq. What was surprising was how quickly the candidates ramped up their personal attacks.

CHENEY: Now, if they couldn't stand up to the pressures that Howard Dean represented, how can we expect them to stand up to al Qaeda?

EDWARDS: A long resume does not equal good judgment.

CHENEY: Your rhetoric, senator, would be a lot more credible if there was a record to back it up.

EDWARDS: While he was CEO of Halliburton, they paid millions of dollars in fines for providing false information on their company, just like Enron and Ken Lay. They did business with Libya and Iran.

CHENEY: The reason they keep trying to attack Halliburton is because they want to obscure their own record. And, senator, frankly, you have a record in the Senate that's not very distinguished. You've got one of the worst attendance records in the United States Senate.

EDWARDS: And I'm surprised to hear him talk about records. When he was one of 435 members of the United States House, he was one of 10 to vote against Head Start, one of four to vote against banning plastic weapons that can pass through metal detectors.

HUNTINGTON: They became more civil over domestic issues, with Cheney pledging to make tax cuts permanent, Edwards promising to roll back those cuts for anyone making more than $200,000. They even agreed over gay marriage and Senator Edwards' respect for the vice president's gay daughter.

CHENEY: Gwen, let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that very much.

EDWARDS: You're welcome.

HUNTINGTON: The candidates closed on different tacks. Senator Edwards invoked the promise of America. Vice President Cheney returned to the war on terror.

GWEN IFILL, PBS, MODERATOR: Thank you, Vice President Cheney.

Senator Edwards.

DAVID GERGEN, KENNEDY SCHOOL, HARVARD: This fought to a draw. The vice president was much more effective in attacking the Kerry plan for Iraq. John Edwards, by contrast, I thought he became much more effective on the domestic questions. Overall, it was a draw.

HUNTINGTON: And that's right where the latest CNN poll puts the two presidential candidates.

Chris Huntington, CNN Financial News, New York.

(END VIDEO TAPE) SANCHEZ: There was something interesting that happened during this debate. It had to do with, well, I guess you'd say a war of words over the Iraq war itself. It's a numbers argument, as well, and they had arguments over a lot of issues.

Let's talk about these.

Joining us now is Chuck Todd.

He's the editor-in-chief of "The Nation's" journal, "Hotline."

Chuck, thanks so much for being with us, my friend.

CHUCK TODD, "THE HOTLINE": Hey, Rick.

SANCHEZ: A big bone of contention, this is this numbers thing about the casualties in Iraq and what percentage have actually been Americans.

Let's let them square the argument.

Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDWARDS: You know, we've taken 90 percent of the coalition casualties. American taxpayers have borne 90 percent of the costs of the effort in Iraq. And we see the result of there not being a coalition. The first Gulf War cost America $5 billion. We're at $200 billion and counting.

CHENEY: The 90 percent figure is just dead wrong. When you include the Iraqi security forces that have suffered casualties, as well as the allies, they've taken almost 50 percent of the casualties in operations in Iraq, which leaves the U.S. with 50 percent, not 90 percent.

With respect to the cost, it wasn't $200 billion. You probably weren't there to vote for that, but $120 billion is, in fact, what has been allocated to Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: An interesting argument, because what Edwards seems to be saying is hey, look, I said coalition losses. I wasn't talking about the Iraqis. They're not a part of the coalition. What the vice president is saying is no, you've got to involve, you've got to include the Iraqis when you do your math on this.

Who's right?

TODD: Well, I'll tell you, that was a -- it was a gutsy decision by Cheney because one of the things that a lot of countries that have been upset with and some even media have been upset with is the lack of acknowledging of the Iraqi deaths. And that's not just the Iraqi forces, but the Iraqi civilians. There are no estimates out there, or very -- the estimates -- there are estimates, but there are no actual numbers.

So it's a gutsy argument. It was pretty good in the debate. One wonders if this is going -- if folks are going to follow-up with even more details of sort of the Iraqi deaths.

SANCHEZ: It's actually really smart when you think about it, isn't it, because he's taking a negative, the fact that Iraqi soldiers that we trained are getting pummeled, and turning it into a positive and saying look, they're dying for us.

TODD: You know, yes, as far as the debate is concerned, yes, I think that's correct. At the end of the day, you know, American voters are Americans first and the thing they focus on is the American deaths.

So I don't know if -- it worked well as a rebuttal that night. I don't know if it's something that they can continue to talk about.

SANCHEZ: What did you make of the whole gay marriage argument? I thought it interesting that it wasn't the vice president who mentioned he had a gay daughter, it was his opponent. And I'm left to wonder if his opponent did that for a very specific reason.

Did you?

TODD: I tell you, I was -- first of all, I thought it was awkward. It was weird. I thought there were two -- I'm still trying to wonder why there were two questions on gay marriage. I think one was sufficient, to be honest. I don't think we needed the second question.

SANCHEZ: Do you think it was a dig at the vice president? Do you think they were trying to get to something that he didn't necessarily want to reveal?

TODD: Oh, absolutely. I mean it was something to try to see if they could get him in a box and I thought the most revealing moment was, you know, he asked Cheney, he thanked him. But then there was a point where he was allowed to give another 30, you know, 30 second update. He said one sentence, you know, well, I've said everything I need to say.

SANCHEZ: Yes, that's a...

TODD: And that was it. And all of a sudden there was like this awkward moment of silence.

SANCHEZ: The producer is saying we've got to go.

Enjoyed talking to you, though.

TODD: OK, great, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Let's do it again.

Chuck Todd, editor-in-chief of "The Hotline." Pollsters already calling voters to see who they think won the debate. ABC News polled registered voters. Let's see, what are the numbers here? Here they go. Ready? Forty-three percent thought the vice president, Dick Cheney, carried the day; 35 percent say it was Senator Edwards; 19 percent said dead even, this thing was a tie.

Did you get the answers that you were looking for from the vice presidential candidates? We here at CNN have put together our own audience to watch the debate, as well.

Our Bill Hemmer helped to get their reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: In our audience quickly, Paul, before this debate began, you told me you wanted to hear these two men tell you what they were going to do.

Did you hear that tonight?

PAUL: Yes, I heard far more definitive answers than I heard from the previous debate between our presidential candidates. I still heard too much he said/she said/you said accusations. But there were some definitive answers to specific questions.

HEMMER: Overall I sense some satisfaction in your voice.

PAUL: Yes. I didn't expect the satisfaction of their answers.

HEMMER: OK, over here to Felicia.

Your big topic tonight was Iraq.

Were you satisfied with what you heard tonight in that conversation?

FELICIA: No, not really. They talked a lot about the war, but I would have liked to hear more about how and when we're pulling the troops out and not how we got there.

HEMMER: Well, Joseph, a final comment here. The whole issue of flip-flop. You were keen on that tonight.

What did you hear? JOSEPH: I think both candidates, vice presidential candidates, missed the boat on the flip-flop issue. I think any reasonable person should take new information as it comes and incorporate it into their decision-making. If you make a decision in 2001 and ignore all that's happened since then, I think you're just being stupid.

HEMMER: Overall, two dozen people here in central Ohio.

Have you made up your mind who you will vote for come November 2?

Let's see a show of hands, yes or no. Just about half, which means you're still a bit undecided. So therefore it takes debate number two between the presidential ticket and then possibly debate number three between George Bush and John Kerry.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

SANCHEZ: There you have it, Bill Hemmer, our colleague, taking care of things for us there in that town forum.

EDWARDS: Got some encouraging words from the boss after the debate. John Kerry called his running mate and wasted no time, as you might expect, congratulating him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The country tonight got a chance to feel the confidence that I in you and now they have gotten into you. They've felt the strength, they felt clarity. You were so strong on correcting the facts. They keep distorting things. And I look forward to going out and just taking on those distortions.

These guys can only resort to fear and distortion and they're unwilling to live with the truth. So you held them accountable and you did a great, great job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: A "candid" phone conversation captured of the senator from Massachusetts.

Kerry is in the Denver area, by the way, where he's prepping for Friday's second presidential debate with George Bush. The two will square off in St. Louis.

And the president, for his part, watched the debate from the White House. He also called his running mate. But the president has more on his agenda today than just debate practice. He's heading to Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania this morning, where he's giving a speech on the war on terror and the economy, we're told, as well. CNN will bring you the president's speech live. That's at 10:30 a.m. Eastern time right here, 7:00 Pacific.

No weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. That is the final word from the chief U.S. -- pardon me -- yes, U.S. weapons inspector, Charles Duelfer. He delivers a 1,500 page report to the Senate Armed Services Committee today. Senior administration officials say the findings will show that former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had no stockpiles at the time of the U.S. invasion last year, but that Saddam Hussein wanted to revive his weapons program if international sanctions ended.

As you know, President Bush's main argument for war was that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction at the time. Another of the Bush administration's prewar allegations is coming into question. There's a new CIA report that finds no conclusive evidence that Saddam Hussein harbored Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. He is the militant believed to have masterminded many of the suicide bombings, kidnappings and beheadings in Iraq. Before the war, the Bush administration portrayed Zarqawi as al Qaeda's link to Saddam Hussein.

The White House is now shrugging off some critical comments from Paul Bremer that were received yesterday. The former civilian administrator in Iraq says that the U.S. needed more of a presence just after the invasion. A military presence is what he's referring to.

We quote here: "One way to have stopped the looting would have been to have more troops on the ground." He goes on to say: "That's a retrospective wisdom of mine, looking backward. I think there are enough troops there now for the job we are doing." Paul Bremer.

Political posturing or legitimate legislation? Those were the questions that met a House bill that could have paved the way for a reinstitution of the draft. The bill was soundly defeated, 402-2. Republicans charge that Democrats were spreading rumors of a draft to scare the voters. Democrats roundly denied that accusation.

We have so much more for you this morning.

The company that can't deliver on flu vaccines this season is going to feel a lot of pressure, coming up.

And we're going to look at the business of a pending health care crisis in that particular case.

Also, who do you think won the vice presidential debates? We are going to talk to some spin doctors about that.

But first, here's a look at what else is making news on this Wednesday morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Your news, your money, your weather, your sports.

Yes, folks, it's 18 minutes after the hour of 6:00, in the East, mind you.

And here's what's happening this morning.

A government report on Iraq and the search for weapons of mass destruction is going to say that none existed at the time of the U.S. invasion, but the report also is going to say that Saddam Hussein did plan to restart his banned weapons program at some time when U.N. sanctions were lifted.

A military strike in Fallujah targeting a house reportedly used by insurgents to plan attacks on American and Iraqi forces. Three houses destroyed in this air strike. No injuries were reported. In money, another record high for oil prices. Fear over heating oil supplies led to the price of crude oil to top $51 a barrel. Production problems caused by hurricane Ivan have added to the uncertainty as well.

In culture, Michigan Republicans say that documentary filmmaker Michael Moore is illegally bribing college students. They want charges filed because Moore has offered food and clean underwear to students promising to vote in November. We'll leave it alone.

But we won't leave this alone, because it's my favorite baseball team and I'm proud. And I'm saying it this morning, I'm proud. The Minnesota Twins beat the New York Yankees 2-0 in the first game of the American League Division series. My Twinkies also beat the Yankees in game one last year, but then they lost the series.

MYERS: Hey, Rick?

SANCHEZ: All right, so there's always something.

Yes, go ahead.

MYERS: Can you sing the song? Then I'll know you're a Twins fan.

SANCHEZ: Which one?

MYERS: We're gonna win Twins, we're gonna score.

SANCHEZ: All right. See how I turned that around on you? I should have been in a vice presidential debate last night. I got you into it.

MYERS: I know.

Hey, the Bosox won, as well, and obviously St. Louis had a really easy time yesterday.

(WEATHER REPORT)

SANCHEZ: Flu season is on its way, but millions of flu shots aren't headed for the United States.

Carrie Lee has the story.

She's at the Nasdaq marketplace in Times Square -- Carrie, to you.

CARRIE LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you, Rick.

Well, public health officials here in the U.S. are now predicting a flu vaccine shortage this season after Chiron Corporation -- and this is a British vaccine maker -- says it won't be able to make millions of doses of the vaccine due to problems at its British plant.

Now, Chiron had expected to provide about half of the U.S. supply of flu shots for this flu season. But now the British Department of Health is suspending Chiron's manufacturing license for three months, saying problems with the manufacturing process now means that vaccines produced cannot be released for shipment.

So now U.S. public health officials say it's important that a lot of people who received flu shots in the past pass up shots this year to help maintain enough supply for those at risk. In the past, the Centers for Disease Control recommended that people who are 50 or older get the flu shots, as well as infants between six and 23 months, and women who plan to become pregnant this flu season.

You can bet that Chiron Corporation's stock lost ground. It was as low as 36 percent to the down side yesterday. It closed down 16 1/2 percent. We'll see if there's any follow through today.

Meanwhile, checking stocks today, futures are looking pretty flat right now despite the fact that oil closed above $51 a barrel for the first time last night.

One stock to watch today, Merck. The drug giant also in the Dow. The "Wall Street Journal" citing a U.S. regulatory report that Vioxx, its arthritis drug recently taken off the market, have led to more than 27,000 heart attacks and seven cardiac deaths; this before it was withdrawn last week. So we'll be keeping an eye on that Dow component today.

Rick -- back to you.

SANCHEZ: We should mention with that flu shot story that kids are going to be OK because the folks who make their particular flu shot is not affected by this, right?

LEE: That's right, yes. So it doesn't mean that there's not going to be any flu vaccine available, but about half the supply we normally get. So they'/re trying to dole it out very carefully this year.

SANCHEZ: Yes, so adults get the tough part of this, not the kids.

LEE: That's right.

SANCHEZ: Well, if it has to be one way, we'd prefer it go that way.

LEE: Exactly.

SANCHEZ: Thanks, Carrie.

LEE: OK.

SANCHEZ: Appreciate it.

We're going to be right back.

We've got a lot of stuff going on. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Now Across America.

Prosecutors in the Scott Peterson trial have rested their case. The final witness detailed fears that Peterson was planning to possibly flee the country. A Modesto detective talked about camping and survival gear that was found in Peterson's car before his arrest. The prosecution called 174 witnesses over the first 19 weeks of the trial. The defense could take several more months still in this case.

For a third time, the man who killed John Lennon is being denied parole. It's going to be two years before Mark David Chapman is up for parole again. The letter sent on behalf of Lennon's widow asked that Chapman's request for parole be denied.

Comedy legend Rodney Dangerfield died Tuesday, just a week after coming out of a month long coma. Dangerfield made a career out of his self-deprecating humor. His greatest role may have been as a comedy mentor to many of today's top stars who use his material still. Rodney Dangerfield was 82 years old.

Well, battling it out for the number two slot. Much more on last night's vice presidential debate when we at DAYBREAK return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: And good morning, everyone.

From the CNN Global Headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Rick Sanchez.

Carol Costello is off today.

Now in the news, Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction at the time of the U.S. invasion last year, but he may have been planning to revise his WMD programs. That is the final word from the experts sent to Iraq to search for banned weapons. The team delivers its findings to a Senate committee this morning.

The U.S. military launched an air strike on a house in Fallujah, where insurgents were thought to be plotting attacks in Iraq. Three houses, we understand, were destroyed. We're following the story. No injuries reported.

Washington is delaying plans for its troop reduction in South Korea. One third of U.S. troops were to have pulled out of the Peninsula by the end of next year, but the deadline has now been pushed back to 2008.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com