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American Morning

Analysis of Last Night's Vice Presidential Debate

Aired October 06, 2004 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My vice president, you are still not being straight with the American people.

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are two individuals who have been for the war when the headlines were good and against it when the poll ratings were bad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Dick Cheney, John Edwards trading blows in the vice presidential debate. The next debate is who won?

Millions of Americans who thought may be getting a flu shot now are being asked to go without it this year.

Gunmakers debate a tiny shotgun that fits in your wallet.

And despite that classic punchline, they really did respect Rodney Dangerfield. Saying goodbye to a great American comedian on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING. Live from Cleveland, Ohio, here's Bill Hemmer.

HEMMER: And good morning yet again from the Cleveland Museum of Art. We're here again in Cleveland, where the spin is starting up yet again today after last night's vice presidential debate.

Good morning. Good to have you along with us today.

We will spend a whole lot of time this morning, over the next three hours, looking at who did the better job last night. Was it Dick Cheney? Or was it John Edwards? Jeff Greenfield joins us in a moment to tell us what we heard and saw last night.

Also, we'll talk to the daughters today. Dick Cheney's daughter, Liz, is with us, talking about how her father did last night. And Cate Edwards, too, John Edwards' daughter, here as well, to shake down the results from what we watched last night in Cleveland, Ohio.

Also from New York, good morning to Heidi Collins back there. Heidi, good morning.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good cold morning to you, Mr. Bill. Thanks so much for that. HEMMER: Yes, that it is.

COLLINS: Of course we are covering a lot of other news this morning as well. The 19-week prosecution marathon is over in the Scott Peterson trail. The state resting its case yesterday after calling 174 witnesses. We will look at where the defense goes now.

And Jack is off today. But Carlos Watson will be taking your e- mail this morning and giving you a chance to weigh in on the debate last night.

Meanwhile, now in the news this morning, there is word of a possible breakthrough agreement to end the fighting in Baghdad's Sadr City. It calls for insurgents to lay down their heavy weapons within a week.

Meanwhile, the final report for weapons inspectors is set for release in the Senate. Sources say it suggests Saddam Hussein didn't have weapons of mass destruction at the time of the U.S. invasion, but was looking to revive his WMD program.

A proposed military draft has been shot down. The House yesterday voted overwhelmingly against the Democrat-sponsored measure, 402 against 2 in favor. Republican leaders say they hope this will end the Internet-fueled rumors that President is secretly trying to reinstate the draft. The president has repeated denied any such plan.

Three new Nobel laureates this morning, American Irwin Rose and Israelis Avran Pershko (ph) and Aram Chekunavar (ph) will share the 2004 prize in chemistry. I'll get those names better next time. The researchers won for their work on how the body chooses to break down certain proteins. The honor comes with a $1.3 million prize. Good for them.

Comedian Rodney Dangerfield is dead, following complications from heart surgery. Dangerfield had surgery more than a month ago and had been in and out of a coma since then. He was known for his signature, quote, "I get no respect." Dangerfield was 82. We'll have more on his life and comedy later this hour in "90-Second Pop."

He'll be missed, won't he? Funny guy.

HEMMER: Yes, good day to reflect on him, too.

So, so funny, you're exactly right, Heidi.

Back here in Cleveland now, the winner is take your pick today. There are two separate overnight polls in the vice presidential debate coming up with opposite results. Vice President Dick Cheney, a clear winner in ABC's poll, Senator John Edwards a winner by a wide margin in CBS's poll. Either way you shake it down, Kelly Wallace now with a look, a closer look at last night's battle now.

Here's Kelly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Side by side, they dueled.

CHENEY: It is indeed you suggested somehow...

WALLACE: Vice President Cheney accusing Senator Edwards and Kerry of letting primary politics influence their votes on Iraq.

CHENEY: So they in effect decided they would cast an anti-war vote, and they voted against the troops. Now if they couldn't stand up to the pressures that Howard Dean represented, how can we expect them to stand up to Al Qaeda?

WALLACE: Edwards going after the vice president's credibility.

EDWARDS: Mr. Vice President, there is no connection between the attacks of September 11th and Saddam Hussein, and you've gone around the country suggesting that there is some connection. There's not.

WALLACE: And they battled over experience.

CHENEY: Your hometown newspaper has taken to calling you "Senator Gone." You've got one of the worst attendance records in the United States Senate.

EDWARDS: The vice president and president like to talk about their experience on the campaign trail. Millions of people have lost their jobs. Millions have fallen into poverty. Mr. Vice president, I don't think the country can take four more years of this kind of experience.

WALLACE: It wasn't nasty, but tough, with the exception of one gentle exchange on the subject of outlawing same sex marriages. The vice president's daughter is openly gay.

EDWARDS: And you can't have anything but respect for the fact that they are willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter, the fact that they embrace her.

CHENEY: Let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that very much.

WALLACE: The stakes were certainly high, with Cheney trying to stop the president's decline in the polls and Edwards trying to keep Kerry's sudden momentum going.

(on camera): And the days ahead will reveal which man was more successful.

Kelly Wallace, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Kelly, thanks for that.

Back here in Cleveland now, our senior analyst Jeff Greenfield checks in. Good morning to you.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Hi.

HEMMER: Each man scored a lot of points last night. This was serious, it was direct, it was critical oftentimes as well.

GREENFIELD: Yes.

HEMMER: As you score it, though, today did either man do a better job of swaying voters out there watching?

GREENFIELD: Let's take a look at that point you made about where each of these candidates scored. When Dick Cheney in the first part of the debate was pressing on John Kerry's record of inconsistency, watch how he turned that to make the point that Kerry was simply surfing in the political winds. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: I couldn't figure out why that happened initially, and Then I looked and figured out what was happening was Howard Dean was making major progress in the Democratic primaries, running away with the primaries based on an anti-war record. So they, in effect, decided they would cast an anti-war vote and they voted against the troops. Now if they couldn't stand up to the pressures that Howard Dean represented, how can we expect them to stand up to Al Qaeda?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GREENFIELD: That's the point, Bill, John Kerry -- Dick Cheney is saying simply too weak and indecisive to win the war on terror.

Now let's flip for it a second. The case that the Kerry/Edwards ticket wants to make, particularly in a state like Ohio, where this debate was, was on the economy. And what John Edwards did was simply to list once again the prosecutor's brief against the Bush/Cheney record.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDWARDS: During the time that the vice president and the president had been in office, four million more Americans have fallen into poverty. And one of the most striking and startling things is they are the first presidency in 70 years, and I'm talking Democrats, Republicans, presidents who led us through World War, through the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Cold War, every one of them created jobs, until this president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GREENFIELD: Each of these candidates clearly had rounds, if you wanted to use the horrible boxing metaphor, because we can't get away from sports stuff, but there were rounds for Cheney and rounds for Edwards. HEMMER: Listen, it's October, right. The baseball playoffs are well under way. We can use that. Friday night now the attention goes back to the top of the ticket. Did last night change that dynamic that we will see in St. Louis in any way?

GREENFIELD: I don't think so. Vice presidential debates traditionally don't move voters, because understandably, they're picking the top of the ticket. The only thing that I can suggest to you, Bill, is the fact the Republicans last night were saying Cheney did better than Bush did last week. It, in effect, puts a little more pressure on Bush, because you really don't want the message to be that the No. 2 guy is really the man behind the curtain running things.

HEMMER: Thank you, Jeff. I'll see you in St. Louis, I guess, huh?

GREENFIELD: Could be.

HEMMER: Might be a bit warmer there, too.

GREENFIELD: Anybody got a couple of tickets to Thursday night's game, by the way. This worked for me in the World Series on this show. I'm counting on somebody.

HEMMER: Keep going. Talk to you later.

Much more debate throughout the morning here on AMERICAN MORNING, including a fact check with Bill Schneider later today here on AMERICAN MORNING.

Also, the presidential candidates revving up for round two, as I mentioned, St. Louis on Friday night. Our primetime coverage then starts at 7:00 eastern. Again, that debate gets underway at 9:00, going for 90 minutes yet again.

Back to New York again and Heidi now with more -- Heidi.

COLLINS: All right, Bill, thanks so much. And judging by your coat there, obviously, we know it is cold where you are.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COLLINS: Well, it looks like something James Bond might use. It's a gun that resembles a credit card so small it might just fit in your wallet. Look at that, the double barrel weapon is about half an inch thick. It costs about 100 bucks. It can fire up to seven BB- size pellets. The manufacturer says the guns are for close-range self defense.

Still to come this morning, a potential flu disaster. We'll talk to the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases about a sudden shortage of the U.S. flu vaccine supply.

Grading the vice presidential debates. Was there a winner? And what does it mean for Friday's presidential debates?

And paying respects to the man who said never got any, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING from New York and Cleveland today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: The prosecution has rested in Scott Peterson's double- murder trial. After 19 weeks, 174 witnesses and countless hours of tape, prosecutors detailed Scott Peterson's extensive lies, but did they prove he's a cold-blooded killer?

Rusty Dornin has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: From Amber Frey to the mystery of the concrete anchors, four months of testimony, more than 170 witnesses, experts say no bombshells, no smoking guns. The last prosecution witness, detective Jon Buehler, Tuesday offered little new information in the case.

CHUCK SMITH, LEGAL ANALYST: You want to end with the witness who either brings it all together, or you want to end with the witness who presents a final, powerful fact, and the prosecution did neither.

DORNIN: Detective Buehler said when Peterson was arrested, he changed his appearance, his car was packed with cash, nearly $15,000, camping gear, and included two driver's license and four cell phones. Defense attorney Mark Geragos had claimed repeatedly Peterson was only trying to evade reporters.

Legal analysts say the obvious facts may be the strongest evidence prosecutors have in this case.

SMITH: Scott Peterson did something that was extraordinarily unusual, that is go fishing 90 miles away, and that's precisely where the bodies were found.

DORNIN: Facts Scott Peterson's family questioned.

SUSAN CAUDILLO, PETERSON FAMILY SPOKESWOMAN: It's been a very long four months, and they haven't proven a thing, and we're ready for Tuesday.

DORNIN: Laci Peterson's family had no comment.

(on camera): A question on the minds of many here, is will defense attorney Mark Geragos try to expand his theories of what he calls the real killers, or will he continue to poke at the prosecution's theory? Geragos will begin to reveal the rest of his hand next Tuesday.

Rusty Dornin, CNN, Redwood City, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: It is unclear at this point who will be called as the defense's first witness next week. That list is sealed, and attorneys are bound by a gag order. So we'll have to wait to hear about that. Meanwhile, though, we're going to go back to Cleveland, Ohio now and Bill Hemmer once again.

Good morning.

HEMMER: Heidi, thanks. Good morning again.

On Friday, there's a big jobs report that comes out. That's morning before the second debate between George Bush and John Kerry. There's a question already today about whether or not there's already reason to believe the jobs picture is getting worse. We'll look at that in a moment with Andy Serwer.

Also, this debate last night, will it change how President Bush and Senator Kerry face off on Friday night? A look at that and much more as we roll on, live here in Cleveland, after this on AMERICAN MORNING.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Oil prices still skyrocketing, and could there be bad news on jobs coming at the end of the week? Andy Serwer is here "Minding Your Business." Is there anything good to talk about today?

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: The Minnesota Twins, from your perspective.

COLLINS: Yes, let's start there.

SERWER: OK, they won, didn't they, beat the Yankees.

Let's talk about the market yesterday, not a great day. The Dow was down 38 points. The culprit, I hate to sound like a skipping CD, Heidi, but higher oil prices. In fact, We hit another record this morning, the price of a barrel of oil hitting $51.48. And with the chilly temperatures across the nation this morning, it reminds us we're all going to be needing more heating oil.

COLLINS: Yes, no kidding.

SERWER: The big stock story yesterday, Chiron, this drug company, plunged 16 percent. Why? You can see there on the right? It's spiking down to $38. The question here is, the British officials yesterday suspending production of its flu vaccine in Liverpool. This is very bad news for the United States, because they produce half of the nation's flu vaccine, and we'll be talking more about this late are in the program. I'll be talking about Chiron and Sanjay will be talking about the situation with the flu vaccine.

COLLINS: Yes, we also have the doctors telling us about why a three-month suspension actually on that vaccine.

SERWER: That's right. It's a critical situation.

Some other news that's not to rosy as well. I'm really full of it this morning. A new survey out about September job cuts. This from Challenger Gray Christmas. Jobs cuts by companies spiking, it looks like, up by 45 percent in September, and this is big news, because as we come towards Friday, we're going to get that big jobs report out for the month of September. We're anticipating 150,000 jobs created, and the unemployment rate holding at 5.4 percent, but with this survey out, it would cast that in doubt perhaps, but we won't know until later in the week.

COLLINS: We will not know, but we'll focus on the good news this morning, and that being the Minnesota Twins.

SERWER: The Minnesota Twins. That's from your perspective, we should point out.

COLLINS: That's somehow a business story, I think.

Speaking of, Bill, we're going to send it back now to Cleveland, Ohio. You did hear that right, 2-0, Twinkies over the Yankees?

HEMMER: Congratulations, by the way, OK.

How did they do last night? Our political analyst Carlos Watson with me this morning.

Good morning to you.

CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning. Good cold morning.

HEMMER: Really cold morning actually.

WATSON: Listen, yesterday with Carlos, we did a little report card. Carlos wanted to size up John Edwards versus Dick Cheney. I want to go through the grades that you're giving out this morning.

First for the vice president, yesterday you said just win, baby, and a B-minus.

WATSON: It was important for him, particularly after the president lost last week, to give Republican as shot in the arm, and just win. I'm not sure he won, but he sure delivered a much stronger performance than the president did on Thursday.

HEMMER: All right, number, critique of John Kerry, a B-plus. It was very important, and you saw him go after his record. Not just on Iraq, by the way, but on taxes, even on medical malpractice liability.

HEMMER: All right, scare, but don't be too scary.

WATSON: You like that pre-Halloween one.

HEMMER: A B-plus, you gave him.

WATSON: Remember, he had to underscore the importance of terrorism and national security. I thought he did that well, but he couldn't seem like a curmudgeon, and you saw him smile a little bit. He even had a joke here or there. I thought did he a good job of underscoring that issue, but not being scary himself.

HEMMER: Professor Watson now checks in for the vice president. For Senator Edwards, three things now, meet the test. You score a B.

WATSON: I would have given him a higher grade, Bill. Toward the end, the final half hour, he seemed to fade a little bit, especially when they asked him that question about being a heartbeat away from the presidency.

HEMMER: All right. Offer the Kerry vision, a B-plus, up a tick.

WATSON: I thought he did well in kind of outlining what would be true under the Kerry administration. You heard him talk about health care, you heard him talk about job creation, a whole series of other things.

HEMMER: All right, this leads us now to the highest grade that Professor Watson is giving out.

WATSON: And remember, I'm the son and grandson of teachers, so I'm a little bit qualified to do this.

HEMMER: Perfect, you play the role well.

An a-minus, though, for surprising them. What did you hear last night on John Edwards that would result in that?

WATSON: Now remember, what I said yesterday was that he not only had to be a positive guy, but he had to surprise us by going a little bit negative and doing it on foreign policy grounds. I thought did he that well, including saying, you're not being straight with the American people.

HEMMER: So, overall, you're saying John Edwards won this debate last night?

WATSON: Narrowly won, and Democrats are two for two.

HEMMER: This ABC poll that suggests Dick Cheney was the winner last night, a CBS poll that agrees with you. David Gergen puts it right in the middle with a bit of tie. So then, you're also going to play the role of Jack Cafferty today.

WATSON: Ready to do it.

HEMMER: Our e-mail question, did last night's debate tie the series between the Republicans and the Democrats. Throughout the morning, am@CNN.com and Carlos will help us through these throughout the morning here.

Good to have you.

WATSON: Hey, good to see you.

HEMMER: Stay warm. Talk to you again in 30 minutes.

WATSON: Yes, I'll go drink a little coffee.

HEMMER: All right, back to New York again. Here's Heidi.

COLLINS: OK, guys, thanks so much. Scientists are keeping an eye on Mount St. Helens this morning, once again, wondering if there will be a repeat performance.

On Tuesday, the volcano vented its largest burst yet of steam and ash in decades.

Miguel Marquez now with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a fight between fire and ice as molten rock from deep down pushes toward the surface. Geologists say it is cooled by a lake being created from a section of glacier that surrounds the volcanic dome, the eruptions so far only a warmup for the main event.

CARL THORNBER, U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY: We just popped the top on the pressure cooker, you know, that little thing that's over on the side on your pressure cooker, that that went PSSSSSSSS.

MARQUEZ: Since the volcano roared back to life, the lake and the glacier, up to 500 feet deep, has been pushed skyward 150 feet. Geologists believe this indicates that gas-rich new magma is pushing to get out. The best sign of this, the physical changes to the volcanic dome.

THORNBER: We talked about the amount of deformation of the dome itself a couple of times, and that's a lot of volume. That's, you know, 10 million cubic meters.

MARQUEZ: Between the glacier and the dome is the lake. Every time Mount St. Helens blows off steam, the lake bubbles and boils. Geologists believe the volcanic dome is acting like a plug, older, solidified magma on top keeping the new, more explosive magma from reaching the surface. Geologists also believe it's only a matter of time before the new magma pops the plug.

THORNBER: We're coming closer, you know, that that concept of magma actually rising to the surface seems to be getting a little more play in our scientific discussions.

MARQUEZ: While it might look like there's another steam eruption going on right now, it's only ash being blown north through the crater mouth itself. One thing that geologists said that was interesting about this latest steam eruption is that there was no seismic activity beforehand to say it was coming. And afterwards, all the earthquakes drop off.

But now, they say the pressure is building in the mountain, readying itself for another eruption.

Miguel Marquez, CNN, near Mount St. Helens, Washington. (END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS; Still to come this morning. The last year has been a long and winding road for Michael Jackson. Is his control over Beatles songs in jeopardy, too?

And he always said he got no respect, but this morning, Rodney Dangerfield is getting that and much more. "90-Second Pop" pays its respects to the late comic, next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired October 6, 2004 - 07:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My vice president, you are still not being straight with the American people.

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are two individuals who have been for the war when the headlines were good and against it when the poll ratings were bad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Dick Cheney, John Edwards trading blows in the vice presidential debate. The next debate is who won?

Millions of Americans who thought may be getting a flu shot now are being asked to go without it this year.

Gunmakers debate a tiny shotgun that fits in your wallet.

And despite that classic punchline, they really did respect Rodney Dangerfield. Saying goodbye to a great American comedian on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: This is AMERICAN MORNING. Live from Cleveland, Ohio, here's Bill Hemmer.

HEMMER: And good morning yet again from the Cleveland Museum of Art. We're here again in Cleveland, where the spin is starting up yet again today after last night's vice presidential debate.

Good morning. Good to have you along with us today.

We will spend a whole lot of time this morning, over the next three hours, looking at who did the better job last night. Was it Dick Cheney? Or was it John Edwards? Jeff Greenfield joins us in a moment to tell us what we heard and saw last night.

Also, we'll talk to the daughters today. Dick Cheney's daughter, Liz, is with us, talking about how her father did last night. And Cate Edwards, too, John Edwards' daughter, here as well, to shake down the results from what we watched last night in Cleveland, Ohio.

Also from New York, good morning to Heidi Collins back there. Heidi, good morning.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good cold morning to you, Mr. Bill. Thanks so much for that. HEMMER: Yes, that it is.

COLLINS: Of course we are covering a lot of other news this morning as well. The 19-week prosecution marathon is over in the Scott Peterson trail. The state resting its case yesterday after calling 174 witnesses. We will look at where the defense goes now.

And Jack is off today. But Carlos Watson will be taking your e- mail this morning and giving you a chance to weigh in on the debate last night.

Meanwhile, now in the news this morning, there is word of a possible breakthrough agreement to end the fighting in Baghdad's Sadr City. It calls for insurgents to lay down their heavy weapons within a week.

Meanwhile, the final report for weapons inspectors is set for release in the Senate. Sources say it suggests Saddam Hussein didn't have weapons of mass destruction at the time of the U.S. invasion, but was looking to revive his WMD program.

A proposed military draft has been shot down. The House yesterday voted overwhelmingly against the Democrat-sponsored measure, 402 against 2 in favor. Republican leaders say they hope this will end the Internet-fueled rumors that President is secretly trying to reinstate the draft. The president has repeated denied any such plan.

Three new Nobel laureates this morning, American Irwin Rose and Israelis Avran Pershko (ph) and Aram Chekunavar (ph) will share the 2004 prize in chemistry. I'll get those names better next time. The researchers won for their work on how the body chooses to break down certain proteins. The honor comes with a $1.3 million prize. Good for them.

Comedian Rodney Dangerfield is dead, following complications from heart surgery. Dangerfield had surgery more than a month ago and had been in and out of a coma since then. He was known for his signature, quote, "I get no respect." Dangerfield was 82. We'll have more on his life and comedy later this hour in "90-Second Pop."

He'll be missed, won't he? Funny guy.

HEMMER: Yes, good day to reflect on him, too.

So, so funny, you're exactly right, Heidi.

Back here in Cleveland now, the winner is take your pick today. There are two separate overnight polls in the vice presidential debate coming up with opposite results. Vice President Dick Cheney, a clear winner in ABC's poll, Senator John Edwards a winner by a wide margin in CBS's poll. Either way you shake it down, Kelly Wallace now with a look, a closer look at last night's battle now.

Here's Kelly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Side by side, they dueled.

CHENEY: It is indeed you suggested somehow...

WALLACE: Vice President Cheney accusing Senator Edwards and Kerry of letting primary politics influence their votes on Iraq.

CHENEY: So they in effect decided they would cast an anti-war vote, and they voted against the troops. Now if they couldn't stand up to the pressures that Howard Dean represented, how can we expect them to stand up to Al Qaeda?

WALLACE: Edwards going after the vice president's credibility.

EDWARDS: Mr. Vice President, there is no connection between the attacks of September 11th and Saddam Hussein, and you've gone around the country suggesting that there is some connection. There's not.

WALLACE: And they battled over experience.

CHENEY: Your hometown newspaper has taken to calling you "Senator Gone." You've got one of the worst attendance records in the United States Senate.

EDWARDS: The vice president and president like to talk about their experience on the campaign trail. Millions of people have lost their jobs. Millions have fallen into poverty. Mr. Vice president, I don't think the country can take four more years of this kind of experience.

WALLACE: It wasn't nasty, but tough, with the exception of one gentle exchange on the subject of outlawing same sex marriages. The vice president's daughter is openly gay.

EDWARDS: And you can't have anything but respect for the fact that they are willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter, the fact that they embrace her.

CHENEY: Let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that very much.

WALLACE: The stakes were certainly high, with Cheney trying to stop the president's decline in the polls and Edwards trying to keep Kerry's sudden momentum going.

(on camera): And the days ahead will reveal which man was more successful.

Kelly Wallace, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Kelly, thanks for that.

Back here in Cleveland now, our senior analyst Jeff Greenfield checks in. Good morning to you.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Hi.

HEMMER: Each man scored a lot of points last night. This was serious, it was direct, it was critical oftentimes as well.

GREENFIELD: Yes.

HEMMER: As you score it, though, today did either man do a better job of swaying voters out there watching?

GREENFIELD: Let's take a look at that point you made about where each of these candidates scored. When Dick Cheney in the first part of the debate was pressing on John Kerry's record of inconsistency, watch how he turned that to make the point that Kerry was simply surfing in the political winds. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: I couldn't figure out why that happened initially, and Then I looked and figured out what was happening was Howard Dean was making major progress in the Democratic primaries, running away with the primaries based on an anti-war record. So they, in effect, decided they would cast an anti-war vote and they voted against the troops. Now if they couldn't stand up to the pressures that Howard Dean represented, how can we expect them to stand up to Al Qaeda?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GREENFIELD: That's the point, Bill, John Kerry -- Dick Cheney is saying simply too weak and indecisive to win the war on terror.

Now let's flip for it a second. The case that the Kerry/Edwards ticket wants to make, particularly in a state like Ohio, where this debate was, was on the economy. And what John Edwards did was simply to list once again the prosecutor's brief against the Bush/Cheney record.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDWARDS: During the time that the vice president and the president had been in office, four million more Americans have fallen into poverty. And one of the most striking and startling things is they are the first presidency in 70 years, and I'm talking Democrats, Republicans, presidents who led us through World War, through the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Cold War, every one of them created jobs, until this president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GREENFIELD: Each of these candidates clearly had rounds, if you wanted to use the horrible boxing metaphor, because we can't get away from sports stuff, but there were rounds for Cheney and rounds for Edwards. HEMMER: Listen, it's October, right. The baseball playoffs are well under way. We can use that. Friday night now the attention goes back to the top of the ticket. Did last night change that dynamic that we will see in St. Louis in any way?

GREENFIELD: I don't think so. Vice presidential debates traditionally don't move voters, because understandably, they're picking the top of the ticket. The only thing that I can suggest to you, Bill, is the fact the Republicans last night were saying Cheney did better than Bush did last week. It, in effect, puts a little more pressure on Bush, because you really don't want the message to be that the No. 2 guy is really the man behind the curtain running things.

HEMMER: Thank you, Jeff. I'll see you in St. Louis, I guess, huh?

GREENFIELD: Could be.

HEMMER: Might be a bit warmer there, too.

GREENFIELD: Anybody got a couple of tickets to Thursday night's game, by the way. This worked for me in the World Series on this show. I'm counting on somebody.

HEMMER: Keep going. Talk to you later.

Much more debate throughout the morning here on AMERICAN MORNING, including a fact check with Bill Schneider later today here on AMERICAN MORNING.

Also, the presidential candidates revving up for round two, as I mentioned, St. Louis on Friday night. Our primetime coverage then starts at 7:00 eastern. Again, that debate gets underway at 9:00, going for 90 minutes yet again.

Back to New York again and Heidi now with more -- Heidi.

COLLINS: All right, Bill, thanks so much. And judging by your coat there, obviously, we know it is cold where you are.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COLLINS: Well, it looks like something James Bond might use. It's a gun that resembles a credit card so small it might just fit in your wallet. Look at that, the double barrel weapon is about half an inch thick. It costs about 100 bucks. It can fire up to seven BB- size pellets. The manufacturer says the guns are for close-range self defense.

Still to come this morning, a potential flu disaster. We'll talk to the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases about a sudden shortage of the U.S. flu vaccine supply.

Grading the vice presidential debates. Was there a winner? And what does it mean for Friday's presidential debates?

And paying respects to the man who said never got any, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING from New York and Cleveland today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: The prosecution has rested in Scott Peterson's double- murder trial. After 19 weeks, 174 witnesses and countless hours of tape, prosecutors detailed Scott Peterson's extensive lies, but did they prove he's a cold-blooded killer?

Rusty Dornin has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: From Amber Frey to the mystery of the concrete anchors, four months of testimony, more than 170 witnesses, experts say no bombshells, no smoking guns. The last prosecution witness, detective Jon Buehler, Tuesday offered little new information in the case.

CHUCK SMITH, LEGAL ANALYST: You want to end with the witness who either brings it all together, or you want to end with the witness who presents a final, powerful fact, and the prosecution did neither.

DORNIN: Detective Buehler said when Peterson was arrested, he changed his appearance, his car was packed with cash, nearly $15,000, camping gear, and included two driver's license and four cell phones. Defense attorney Mark Geragos had claimed repeatedly Peterson was only trying to evade reporters.

Legal analysts say the obvious facts may be the strongest evidence prosecutors have in this case.

SMITH: Scott Peterson did something that was extraordinarily unusual, that is go fishing 90 miles away, and that's precisely where the bodies were found.

DORNIN: Facts Scott Peterson's family questioned.

SUSAN CAUDILLO, PETERSON FAMILY SPOKESWOMAN: It's been a very long four months, and they haven't proven a thing, and we're ready for Tuesday.

DORNIN: Laci Peterson's family had no comment.

(on camera): A question on the minds of many here, is will defense attorney Mark Geragos try to expand his theories of what he calls the real killers, or will he continue to poke at the prosecution's theory? Geragos will begin to reveal the rest of his hand next Tuesday.

Rusty Dornin, CNN, Redwood City, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: It is unclear at this point who will be called as the defense's first witness next week. That list is sealed, and attorneys are bound by a gag order. So we'll have to wait to hear about that. Meanwhile, though, we're going to go back to Cleveland, Ohio now and Bill Hemmer once again.

Good morning.

HEMMER: Heidi, thanks. Good morning again.

On Friday, there's a big jobs report that comes out. That's morning before the second debate between George Bush and John Kerry. There's a question already today about whether or not there's already reason to believe the jobs picture is getting worse. We'll look at that in a moment with Andy Serwer.

Also, this debate last night, will it change how President Bush and Senator Kerry face off on Friday night? A look at that and much more as we roll on, live here in Cleveland, after this on AMERICAN MORNING.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Oil prices still skyrocketing, and could there be bad news on jobs coming at the end of the week? Andy Serwer is here "Minding Your Business." Is there anything good to talk about today?

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: The Minnesota Twins, from your perspective.

COLLINS: Yes, let's start there.

SERWER: OK, they won, didn't they, beat the Yankees.

Let's talk about the market yesterday, not a great day. The Dow was down 38 points. The culprit, I hate to sound like a skipping CD, Heidi, but higher oil prices. In fact, We hit another record this morning, the price of a barrel of oil hitting $51.48. And with the chilly temperatures across the nation this morning, it reminds us we're all going to be needing more heating oil.

COLLINS: Yes, no kidding.

SERWER: The big stock story yesterday, Chiron, this drug company, plunged 16 percent. Why? You can see there on the right? It's spiking down to $38. The question here is, the British officials yesterday suspending production of its flu vaccine in Liverpool. This is very bad news for the United States, because they produce half of the nation's flu vaccine, and we'll be talking more about this late are in the program. I'll be talking about Chiron and Sanjay will be talking about the situation with the flu vaccine.

COLLINS: Yes, we also have the doctors telling us about why a three-month suspension actually on that vaccine.

SERWER: That's right. It's a critical situation.

Some other news that's not to rosy as well. I'm really full of it this morning. A new survey out about September job cuts. This from Challenger Gray Christmas. Jobs cuts by companies spiking, it looks like, up by 45 percent in September, and this is big news, because as we come towards Friday, we're going to get that big jobs report out for the month of September. We're anticipating 150,000 jobs created, and the unemployment rate holding at 5.4 percent, but with this survey out, it would cast that in doubt perhaps, but we won't know until later in the week.

COLLINS: We will not know, but we'll focus on the good news this morning, and that being the Minnesota Twins.

SERWER: The Minnesota Twins. That's from your perspective, we should point out.

COLLINS: That's somehow a business story, I think.

Speaking of, Bill, we're going to send it back now to Cleveland, Ohio. You did hear that right, 2-0, Twinkies over the Yankees?

HEMMER: Congratulations, by the way, OK.

How did they do last night? Our political analyst Carlos Watson with me this morning.

Good morning to you.

CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning. Good cold morning.

HEMMER: Really cold morning actually.

WATSON: Listen, yesterday with Carlos, we did a little report card. Carlos wanted to size up John Edwards versus Dick Cheney. I want to go through the grades that you're giving out this morning.

First for the vice president, yesterday you said just win, baby, and a B-minus.

WATSON: It was important for him, particularly after the president lost last week, to give Republican as shot in the arm, and just win. I'm not sure he won, but he sure delivered a much stronger performance than the president did on Thursday.

HEMMER: All right, number, critique of John Kerry, a B-plus. It was very important, and you saw him go after his record. Not just on Iraq, by the way, but on taxes, even on medical malpractice liability.

HEMMER: All right, scare, but don't be too scary.

WATSON: You like that pre-Halloween one.

HEMMER: A B-plus, you gave him.

WATSON: Remember, he had to underscore the importance of terrorism and national security. I thought he did that well, but he couldn't seem like a curmudgeon, and you saw him smile a little bit. He even had a joke here or there. I thought did he a good job of underscoring that issue, but not being scary himself.

HEMMER: Professor Watson now checks in for the vice president. For Senator Edwards, three things now, meet the test. You score a B.

WATSON: I would have given him a higher grade, Bill. Toward the end, the final half hour, he seemed to fade a little bit, especially when they asked him that question about being a heartbeat away from the presidency.

HEMMER: All right. Offer the Kerry vision, a B-plus, up a tick.

WATSON: I thought he did well in kind of outlining what would be true under the Kerry administration. You heard him talk about health care, you heard him talk about job creation, a whole series of other things.

HEMMER: All right, this leads us now to the highest grade that Professor Watson is giving out.

WATSON: And remember, I'm the son and grandson of teachers, so I'm a little bit qualified to do this.

HEMMER: Perfect, you play the role well.

An a-minus, though, for surprising them. What did you hear last night on John Edwards that would result in that?

WATSON: Now remember, what I said yesterday was that he not only had to be a positive guy, but he had to surprise us by going a little bit negative and doing it on foreign policy grounds. I thought did he that well, including saying, you're not being straight with the American people.

HEMMER: So, overall, you're saying John Edwards won this debate last night?

WATSON: Narrowly won, and Democrats are two for two.

HEMMER: This ABC poll that suggests Dick Cheney was the winner last night, a CBS poll that agrees with you. David Gergen puts it right in the middle with a bit of tie. So then, you're also going to play the role of Jack Cafferty today.

WATSON: Ready to do it.

HEMMER: Our e-mail question, did last night's debate tie the series between the Republicans and the Democrats. Throughout the morning, am@CNN.com and Carlos will help us through these throughout the morning here.

Good to have you.

WATSON: Hey, good to see you.

HEMMER: Stay warm. Talk to you again in 30 minutes.

WATSON: Yes, I'll go drink a little coffee.

HEMMER: All right, back to New York again. Here's Heidi.

COLLINS: OK, guys, thanks so much. Scientists are keeping an eye on Mount St. Helens this morning, once again, wondering if there will be a repeat performance.

On Tuesday, the volcano vented its largest burst yet of steam and ash in decades.

Miguel Marquez now with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a fight between fire and ice as molten rock from deep down pushes toward the surface. Geologists say it is cooled by a lake being created from a section of glacier that surrounds the volcanic dome, the eruptions so far only a warmup for the main event.

CARL THORNBER, U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY: We just popped the top on the pressure cooker, you know, that little thing that's over on the side on your pressure cooker, that that went PSSSSSSSS.

MARQUEZ: Since the volcano roared back to life, the lake and the glacier, up to 500 feet deep, has been pushed skyward 150 feet. Geologists believe this indicates that gas-rich new magma is pushing to get out. The best sign of this, the physical changes to the volcanic dome.

THORNBER: We talked about the amount of deformation of the dome itself a couple of times, and that's a lot of volume. That's, you know, 10 million cubic meters.

MARQUEZ: Between the glacier and the dome is the lake. Every time Mount St. Helens blows off steam, the lake bubbles and boils. Geologists believe the volcanic dome is acting like a plug, older, solidified magma on top keeping the new, more explosive magma from reaching the surface. Geologists also believe it's only a matter of time before the new magma pops the plug.

THORNBER: We're coming closer, you know, that that concept of magma actually rising to the surface seems to be getting a little more play in our scientific discussions.

MARQUEZ: While it might look like there's another steam eruption going on right now, it's only ash being blown north through the crater mouth itself. One thing that geologists said that was interesting about this latest steam eruption is that there was no seismic activity beforehand to say it was coming. And afterwards, all the earthquakes drop off.

But now, they say the pressure is building in the mountain, readying itself for another eruption.

Miguel Marquez, CNN, near Mount St. Helens, Washington. (END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS; Still to come this morning. The last year has been a long and winding road for Michael Jackson. Is his control over Beatles songs in jeopardy, too?

And he always said he got no respect, but this morning, Rodney Dangerfield is getting that and much more. "90-Second Pop" pays its respects to the late comic, next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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