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AMERICAN MORNING

Two Very Different Audiences Targeted in Tonight's Debate; Interview with Rep. Peter King; Interview with Ty Hensley; "90-Second Pop"

Aired October 13, 2004 - 09:29   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Nine-thirty here in New York. Welcome back, everybody. In a moment, that debate later tonight in Tempe could get quarrelsome, we're told. It could get that way fast, too. Kelly Wallace tells us why in a moment, examining the strategies out there.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Also "90-Second Pop" coming up a little bit later. Talking about a music video that has sparked a feud that's testing who has more clout in the music industry, too -- Michael Jackson or Eminem.

HEMMER: All right. Opening bell from Wall Street now. On a Wednesday morning, the Dow starting today at 10,077, off about four points in trading yesterday. Watch the price of oil, too -- it went up yesterday, but dipped down throughout the day. So, we're still about 52 bucks a barrel. We'll measure the impact as we go through the day..

Nasdaq MarketSite off a bit, about three points to the negative side yesterday; 1,925 is your opening mark there.

Welcome back, everybody. Nine-thirty now here in New York. Want to go to Atlanta, the CNN Center -- Daryn Kagan watching the news for us there. Daryn, good morning.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Bill, good morning.

There are new warnings this hour of a possible military invasion in the Iraqi city of Falluja. Prime Minister Ayad Allawi was threatening to use force there unless people in Falluja hand over suspected terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. U.S. forces have been launching nearly daily air strikes on the city in recent weeks. The Pentagon says six key Zarqawi aides have been killed, but there is no word that Zarqawi himself was injured in the attacks.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair says he will not apologize for misleading his country about the war in Iraq. Speaking before the Parliament just a short time ago, Blair denied charges that he misrepresented intelligence leading up to the war. Political opponents in Parliament are demanding an apology. Blair says there was no deception of any sort.

And in California, some internal church files related to priests accused of pedophilia may be made public. A tentative ruling yesterday by a judge says that employment information of Catholic priests accused of sexual abuse should be made public. That decision applies to 160 civil cases against northern California diocese. A hearing on the files will be held later today.

Bill, back to you.

HEMMER: All right. And quickly, Daryn, 9:31 here in New York. You're coming up at 10:00. What do you have for us?

KAGAN: It is Breast Cancer Awareness Month. We're doing a series of stories all week long. Today, we get personal. I, myself, and Jacqui Jeras will tell the story and share the stories of our mothers surviving breast cancer. So, please join us for that.

HEMMER: We think of Phyllis (ph) today.

KAGAN: That we do.

HEMMER: Excellent. Thank you Daryn -- Heidi?

COLLINS: Tonight's final presidential debate is nothing short of a high-stakes duel. Senator Kerry heads in with an advantage. The polls show him favored on domestic issues. But the candidates are targeting two very different audiences tonight.

Kelly Wallace is live outside the debate site in Tempe, Arizona. Kelly, high stakes, indeed.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: High stakes, indeed, Heidi. And we saw this in debate number two. And we will likely see it again tonight. Two campaigns with two very different visions about what it will take to win.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Not going to go alone like this president did.

GEORGE W. BUSH (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Let me just -- I got to answer this...

WALLACE (voice-over): Expect another tough and testy showdown like last week's in the Show-Me State, with President Bush repeatedly mentioning the "L" word...

BUSH: That's what liberals do.

WALLACE: ... and Senator Kerry, the "M" word.

KERRY: I'm fighting for the middle class.

WALLACE: Because Team Kerry believes the race will be decided by middle class swing voters. Team Bush thinks it will come down to turn out among Republicans, especially social conservatives. And so, two very different strategies on the top issues expected to dominate tonight.

Issue one: jobs. Senator Kerry will hammer away at the decline in jobs for middle class workers.

KERRY: First president in 72 years to lose jobs.

WALLACE: While the president will paint his rival as a taxer and spender.

BUSH: He voted 98 times to raise taxes. I mean, these aren't make-up figures.

WALLACE: Issue two: healthcare. Expect the senator to say healthcare premiums for the middle class have skyrocketed, up more than 60 percent.

KERRY: I have a plan to lower the cost of healthcare for you.

WALLACE: And expect something like this from Mr. Bush.

BUSH: It is the largest increase in federal government healthcare ever.

WALLACE: Issue three: naked issues -- social issues like embryonic stem-cell research and abortion. Senator Kerry, a pro- abortion rights Catholic, treading very cautiously.

KERRY: I cannot tell you how deeply I respect the belief about life and when it begins.

WALLACE: And the president with a guaranteed hit with his base.

BUSH: Culture of life is really important for a country to have if it's going to be a hospitable society.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE (on camera): And so, in the end, the true winner might not necessarily be the one getting the higher marks for style and substance, but the one who uses tonight's debate to win over more of his audience and get those voters to the polls -- Heidi?

COLLINS: Last chance to do it. Thank you, Kelly Wallace, today from Arizona.

The presidential candidates debate for the third and final time tonight in Tempe. CNN's primetime coverage begins at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

HEMMER: Meanwhile, in Washington, Heidi, the Capitol Hill office of Minnesota Senator Mark Dayton is closed today over worries of a possible terrorist attack in Washington. Senator Dayton cited a recent report as the reason for closing his office until the November election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARK DAYTON (D), MINNESOTA: Recently, the Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist presented us with a top secret intelligence report on our national security. Obviously, the document's top secret classification prevents me from discussing its contents.

However, based upon that information, I've decided to close my office in the Russell Senate Office Building until after the upcoming election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Now, Capitol Police say they have not received word of any specific threat. So, the question now: Is Senator Dayton's decision appropriate?

Congressman Peter King is a member of the Select Committee on Homeland Security in the House. Good morning to you.

REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: Morning, Bill.

HEMMER: You think Senator Dayton is paranoid -- why?

KING: Yeah, I have no idea what he's talking about.

Listen, I got the same briefing he did, so did 534 other senators and congressmen. Obviously there's high threats to the country. New York and Washington are always in the crosshairs. It's no different now than it was a month ago or two months ago.

And why he's decided to do this -- either he is, you know, overreacting, whether he's showboating or what, I really don't know -- but it's sending a terrible signal to the country. It's really an abdication of responsibility and leadership.

HEMMER: Now, you say you get the same intelligence information. He on the Senate side -- would he be privy in his position to get anything else that you would not be privy to?

KING: No, not at all. We got the same briefings. The FBI, the CIA, Homeland Security -- they gave the briefings the same day. And he had -- no other senator is doing this, no other member of Congress is doing this.

And again, if we follow this here in New York, we wouldn't have the World Series, we wouldn't have the Republican Convention, we wouldn't take the subways. I mean, there is no doubt that New York and Washington are going to be targets. That's the world we live in.

HEMMER: Hasn't the security level in the nation's capital been raised though going back to August, right?

KING: Sure it has, just like it's increased here in New York. I mean, there is no doubt about that. But you know, we have -- this is what we have to live with. And to be, you know, bailing out, to be running away, totally sends the wrong signal.

HEMMER: Well, one of the reasons why we brought you in here today is because of this quote you gave. And you said, "To me, either he is paranoid" -- which I just asked you about -- "or he just wants his people back home working the election." That's a heavy charge.

KING: Well, I was just trying to make some kind of sense out of what he's doing. You know, Minnesota has become a close state. I'm trying to think of some rationale as to why he'd be doing this.

And again, he may have serious reasons. He may have overreacted. I'm just trying to make sense out of what he is doing. I can't make any.

I mean, listen, sure, there's reason to be concerned. There's reason for you and I to be concerned right now being here right in the middle of Manhattan, but we're not going to run and hide.

HEMMER: Peter King, thanks for coming in and talking about it...

KING: Thank you.

HEMMER: ... clarifying your own comments this morning.

KING: Thank you.

HEMMER: All right -- Heidi?

COLLINS: CNN has learned that U.S. forces in Iraq tried twice to rescue the two Americans and one Britain kidnapped last month. The rescue attempts involved U.S. teams going to locations in Baghdad on two separate occasions based on intelligence hostages was being held there.

American Jack Hensley was among the three hostages killed by his captors. His family members say they were not informed by U.S government officials about the rescue attempts.

Jack Hensley's brother, Ty, says he found out about all of this on the news. Ty Hensley joins us live now this morning from Charlotte, North Carolina.

Mr. Hensley, nice to see you, again, this morning. What was your reaction when you heard this news?

TY HENSLEY, JACK HENSLEY'S BROTHER: Well, Heidi, to back up, I had heard there had been some -- potentially an attempt to find Jack. So, I had a very limited knowledge that something was done.

But my first reaction was something that I had been concerned that, in addition to my brother's death, potentially a soldier could be dying or could have gotten killed trying to help my brother. And that would have just even been more horrific for us to deal with, for a young soldier to, you know, go into a hostile environment.

But the second thing was I'd had -- we'd had a little bit of information that things were done, that it was an effort and potential rescue attempts. And I just found it a little hard to believe that our family was better able to keep this quiet than some either high- ranking military or government official. COLLINS: Well, according to our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr this morning, the military officials are telling her that there were a lot of people who spent a lot of sleepless nights looking for them. I would understand that there would be sort of two different feelings that you might have: glad that they tried, but frustrated that they may have acted on bad intelligence.

HENSLEY: Well, you know, it's -- the intelligence is probably -- is part of the war right now, and it's maybe the bigger part. And for us to be able to finish our mission or accomplish the mission that we were accomplished, was we need better intelligence in order to get out of there. And we need to help these people. We need to rebuild that country and get out.

COLLINS: Do you wonder why you weren't told -- looking back over this, would you have wanted to know, maybe after the first attempt at trying to get in and save these hostages?

HENSLEY: Oh, yes. I mean, part of wanting to see Ken Bigley get out alive was to find out what happened, what went on.

And I really do have a very big interest in getting the report back and reading and seeing exactly what was done and that there was a great effort. I believe there was.

But to me, the effort now needs to go toward capturing Zarqawi.

COLLINS: Do you expect that that will happen, that you'll have a chance to look at the report?

HENSLEY: I'm going to push with some senators and congressmen to help get a copy of the report. I've already proven that I can keep my mouth shut better than a lot of others can. So, if it's confidential information, I will keep it confidential.

COLLINS: Talk to us before we let you go, Ty, about your family and how they are doing today. I know you've probably spoken with Patty, Jack's wife, and with Sara, his daughter, as well.

HENSLEY: Oh, yes. They have their days. And it's -- they've been very busy handling all the things that this has generated, just the problems -- when you lose someone, there's so many things you have to deal with.

But the family, at least on my standpoint, just losing someone, let alone how horrific this was and the fact it's a global -- became a global issue, it's just missing them and wanting your Jack back, your big brother.

COLLINS: Understood completely as we look at these great pictures of him.

Ty Hensley, thanks so much, again, for your time this morning.

HENSLEY: Thank you, Heidi.

COLLINS: Bill?

HEMMER: Twenty minutes now before the hour. One final check of the weather. Chad Myers scanning the country this morning for us. What are you focused on today, Chad? Northeast?

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: In a moment here, the unexpected economic impact on the presidential campaign. Andy's back, "Minding Your Business," explaining that in a moment.

COLLINS: Also ahead, there's a new brat pack running around Hollywood. But can they really replace the originals? 90-Second poppers dig into that, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: It's "90-Second Pop" for a Wednesday with all of the pop players today. Toure, CNN's pop culture correspondent, Sarah Bernard, contributing editor for "New York" magazine, and BJ Sigesmund, staff editor for "US Weekly." Good morning, guys.

BJ SIGESMUND, STAFF EDITOR, "US WEEKLY": Good morning.

SARAH BERNARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: Good morning.

COLLINS: Toure, I want to start with you. Michael Jackson is pretty fired up about Eminem and his new video, "Just Lose It." You know, he's being mocked by Emimem, and this is not making him happy. What's going on here?

TOURE, CNN POPULAR CULTURE CORRESPONDENT: Right. In the final scene of the video, you see Eminem dressed as Michael Jackson with a bunch of little boys behind him bouncing on the bed. They don't actually do anything more than just bounce on the bed. But once again, Eminem is poking right in somebody's sore spot, messing with somebody.

And this is -- Eminem is all about schoolyard logic, right? He's the schoolyard, taunting bully. And Michael Jackson never went to school, so he doesn't know, like, how to deal with it.

BERNARD: He wanted...

COLLINS: He wants all of the networks to pull this video.

SIGESMUND: Well, at least one of them has, right?

COLLINS: Yes.

SIGESMUND: BET has decided that in respect to -- out of respect for Michael Jackson, because they have a long relationship...

BERNARD: I think...

(CROSSTALK)

SIGESMUND: They are taking it off the air.

BERNARD: I was going to say, I think this controversy is all to mask the fact that this is one of his worst songs ever.

COLLINS: Ah!

TOURE: No, no...

BERNARD: This is such a bad song.

TOURE: No, no, it's...

BERNARD: And we've been talking about how he impersonates Madonna, Pee-Wee Herman, M.C. Hammer. And, you know, thank god he's keeping this song, you know, being talked about because it's so bad.

TOURE: I like this song. No, I like this song. I like this song.

SIGESMUND: I'm just disappointed in Eminem, because picking on Michael Jackson at this point in time is like shooting fish in a barrel. Can't he do better than that?

TOURE: But that's what Eminem does. He just makes fun of the easiest targets, 'NSync, Britney, Madonna gets it (INAUDIBLE), M.C. Hammer.

SIGESMUND: Usually there's more...

BERNARD: Right.

SIGESMUND: ... with his impersonations of Bill Clinton and Osama bin Laden, they were more provocative and more intelligent, you know.

COLLINS: Yes, does he really need to be doing that?

TOURE: That's true.

SIGESMUND: Michael Jackson?

COLLINS: True. Is Michael Jackson making it worse, too, by fighting back so hard?

TOURE: Oh, yes. Eminem loves the controversy.

BERNARD: Well, he does, yes. He loves that part.

TOURE: So, yes, totally making it hype. That's what Eminem wants.

COLLINS: All right. So, let's move on to this, the brat pack.

(CROSSTALK)

COLLINS: The old brat pack, as we remember...

BERNARD: That's right.

COLLINS: ... Demi Moore, Rob Lowe, Ally Sheedy, Emilio Estevez -- I could go on and on.

BERNARD: "St. Elmo's Fire."

COLLINS: Andrew -- I mean, this is, you know, "St. Elmo's Fire," as you say. But now there's apparently this new brat pack, some of these new names: Lindsay Lohan, Britney Spears, Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen, Jessica Simpson. They're all women, by the way.

BERNARD: That's right. No guys.

COLLINS: But is this really the new brat pack?

BERNARD: This is the new -- I think instead of the new brat pack, I think this is the new spoiled brat pack, because the fact is -- do you remember when Emilio Estevez and Demi Moore, they all came up, they did not have $100 million like the Olsens have...

(CROSSTALK)

SIGESMUND: Yes.

BERNARD: ... or $32 million like Britney. I mean, these are little moguls. They are not exactly just sort of young 20-something actresses. These are people with, you know, Pepsi contracts and fashion lines. So they're more than that at this point.

SIGESMUND: They are like the brat pack, though, in that they hang out together. I mean, somehow Paris and Lindsay have gotten to be best friends.

COLLINS: Really?

SIGESMUND: Yes, the only one who doesn't really hang out with them is Britney. But can you believe that Britney is still only...

COLLINS: She's married now.

SIGESMUND: Oh, yes, she's an old married lady.

(CROSSTALK)

SIGESMUND: But can you believe that Britney is still only 22 years old? Doesn't she seem like she's lived three lifetimes already?

TOURE: But this thing -- Lindsay doesn't hang out with them, does she?

SIGESMUND: Yes.

TOURE: I mean, like these guys -- the brat packers were friends, like, before they were stars.

COLLINS: I feel like we're in high school right now.

TOURE: Like, they were young Hollywood guys trying to attack Hollywood together. Like, they really friends. It wasn't, like, constructed. Like, these people, the new supposed brat pack, they became friends after they became stars.

SIGESMUND: That's true.

BERNARD: Their fame brought them together.

TOURE: Yes, and they have other famous friends, too. Like, do they become part of it? Like...

COLLINS: Guys, I appreciate you being here today, as always. BJ, Sarah, and Toure, thanks again, guys -- Bill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: All right, Heidi, in a moment here. Andy's back, why one major retailer cannot wait for this presidential campaign to be over. Back in a moment here, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Welcome back, everyone. The Starbucks CEO is set to retire. Wow. Borders book sales are slumping, and Andy Serwer has all the info on this.

Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning to you again.

A lot of stuff happening on Wall Street. Earning season, let's talk about that. Mentioned Intel.

But first of all, let's go to the board, because we've got a little rally going on, up 27 points, you can see there. Now stocks we were talking about earlier today, Intel they're up. Their business is doing pretty well. Same with Yahoo!. McDonald's says its business is purring, so that stock is up 3 percent. Price of oil is down now below $52. It's really dropping back down, so that's some good stuff as well.

Two stocks moving, we're going to talk about a little bit here, though, are Borders books and Starbucks. Let's start with Starbucks first.

Yes, there is a new Mr. Coffee in town. CEO stepping down, a guy named Jim Donald is taking over. It's OK. He's heir apparent. He's head of their North American operations, and of course, Howard Schultz, the founder and chairman, is still really in charge at that company, not matter what anybody says.

HEMMER: And they're only going to open 10,000 more stores next month.

SERWER: Yes, that's right, one on every black. Orrin Smith steps down in March. He's the current CEO.

And now we go on to Borders books. This is great, because we're going to add to our collection of excuses by businesses who are trying to explain why their business is no good. Borders, No. 2 bookseller after Barnes and Nobles. They own Waldenbooks, of course, 1,200 bookstores across the country. And they are saying that their business is a little weak, revising it downwards. Here's why, a combination of factors, including multiple hurricanes. OK, I kind of buy that. And the presidential election.

HEMMER: Explain that one, Mr. Serwer.

SERWER: I would actually think the presidential election might help a bookstore, a lot of people going in and going and buying Ann Coulter books, President Clinton's books. I don't understand that one at all.

HEMMER: Maybe they're watching too much CNN.

SERWER: Yes, television.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: That's impossible. There's no such thing as watching too much CNN.

SERWER: Brothers Lewis and Thomas Borders founded the company in 1971 in Ann Arbor, Michigan. And where are they now?

CAFFERTY: Why would the book business be bad? Weren't all the hurricanes in Florida?

HEMMER: He labeled it excuses, and that's the category it comes under, excuses.

CAFFERTY: That's cruel.

SERWER: I got it, too.

CAFFERTY: That's cruel. I'm sorry.

SERWER: You should be; you should be apologizing.

CAFFERTY: Yes, well, I did. I'm sorry. I'm very sorry.

COLLINS: One last hit for the "Question of the Day," some really passionate responses on this one, tough question.

CAFFERTY: Yes, it is. Should juveniles be subjected to the death penalty? Supreme Court is going to hear arguments on whether or not kids under the age of 18 should be subjected to the death penalty in the case of capital crimes. We've gotten some very intelligent, well-thought-out responses, which is unusual on this program.

Rich in Rochester, New York: "Are we to assume that at 18 one deserves to die at the hands of the state, while prior to the passing of that birthday only 24 hours earlier, the innocence of youth should prevail. If the justice system is about punishment and removal of threats to the fabric of society, then age should not be an issue. But if it's about rehabilitation, then death at the hands of the state should not be an option."

Mike in Chicopee, Massachusetts: "Yes, Jack, not only should they be put to death, but they should be cross-matched for blood, tissue and organ donation. With a little luck and timely delivery, we might be able to save more people than these 'poor, misguided youths'" -- he puts that in quotation marks -- "have brutally murdered."

And Bill in Garrison, New York: "In my 21 years with the New York City Police Department, I've seen 12-year-olds that have committed not only murder, but armed robbery, rape and more violent crimes against society than I care to remember. In my opinion, if a juvenile commits a crime and it's proven that he was aware of what he was doing, he deserves the same punishment as an adult." Thank you for your input.

We managed to get some of them on the air, too. It's a little full-screen thing.

HEMMER: By the way, I'm carrying your bags, right, on Monday?

CAFFERTY: That's right.

HEMMER: That was the deal we arranged.

CAFFERTY: That's exactly right.

HEMMER: Soledad is back on Monday, and we're going to the Windy City, AMERICAN MORNING on the road in Chicago, starting on Monday there all week, broadcasting live from the major landmarks there, and such a great town, Chicago is, next week.

Back in a moment here. A break here on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: We've got to run. Thanks for being with us. Later tonight, I'll be in Columbus, Ohio, back with those focus groups, very interesting, too, just to see their reaction as we go through the 90- minute debate.

CAFFERTY: Well, this is the last one.

HEMMER: And the differences between the gender. Yes, the women and men really are different when it comes to these debates.

SERWER: You don't say?

HEMMER: I do say.

COLLINS: I think it's a brilliant conclusion.

HEMMER: So we'll be there live tomorrow in central Ohio. We've got to run.

Here's Daryn Kagan at the CNN Center.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


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