Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Interview With Joe Lockhart; Update on Scott Peterson Trial; Interview With Nicolle Devenish
Aired October 13, 2004 - 07:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everyone. It's 7:30 here in New York. Good morning to you, by the way.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
HEMMER: Still waking up?
COLLINS: Oh, I'm just about there.
HEMMER: Listen, the first two presidential debates, you had about 110 million viewers between debates No. 1 and 2. And so, we'll see what happens tonight in Tempe, Arizona, which candidate stands to gain or lose the most tonight to focus on domestic issues. We'll talk to both campaigns in a moment, Nicolle Devenish from the Bush camp, Joe Lockhart from the Kerry campaign, talk about strategy.
COLLINS: Entertainment of another kind, also in "90-Second Pop" this morning, coming up a little bit later the gang talking about Michael Jackson, who is said to be furious about this: Eminem's new video and the treatment he gets in that video. And, of course, Michael still wields a lot of power in the entertainment industry. So, we're going to look at where this feud is going.
HEMMER: Yes, stay tuned for that.
Daryn Kagan, meanwhile, is at the CNN Center. Daryn, good to have you with us today. And good morning.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Bill, my pleasure. Good morning, and good to see you guys.
Let's begin with international news. Election workers in Afghanistan are getting ready to count ballots in that country's first ever presidential election. The official count has been delayed by complaints of irregularities in last Saturday's vote. Authorities are now investigating those complaints, including claims that some people voted more than once. Official results from the election are expected at the end of the month.
Here in the U.S., at least nine people are recovering this morning from an explosion that ripped through a Long Island, New York car dealership. Firefighters rushed to the wreckage yesterday, pulling out three people trapped in the rubble. A natural gas explosion is suspected of causing that collapse.
More charges in the murder trial of former electrician Daniel Pelosi. Pelosi is accused of murdering millionaire Theodore Ammon back in 2001. Pelosi now faces additional charges for attempting to tamper with the jury and witnesses, as well as attempted assault. Opening arguments are scheduled for the murder trial for later today.
And a wildfire in northern California continues to burn this morning, destroying nearly 30,000 acres. Firefighters faced a difficult job yesterday with swirling winds rendering fire lines nearly useless. The fire destroyed a look-out, prompting a voluntary evacuation for a nearby town. Officials believe it was intentionally started on Sunday night. And for the geographic count up there, Bill, that's about an hour or so north of San Francisco.
HEMMER: All right, got it. OK, Daryn, thanks for that. We'll talk to you a bit later this morning.
KAGAN: OK.
HEMMER: Twenty days and counting now until Election Day. Both candidates are gearing up for tonight's final debate. President Bush attending a rally in Colorado Springs, Colorado, yesterday before making his way to Arizona for the face-off later tonight. Senator John Kerry wakes up in Santa Fe, New Mexico, today, where yesterday he took some time out for some bike riding. He heads to Arizona later this afternoon.
In the meantime, we want to hear from both sides this morning. Tonight's debate is focusing on domestic issues.
Joe Lockhart, a senior advisor with the Kerry campaign, in Scottsdale this morning.
Joe, good morning.
Good morning.
HEMMER: Domestic issues mean taxes. Certainly that will be on the agenda tonight. President Bush talking about that yesterday. Listen, and we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Then he was asked to look into the camera and promise he would not raise taxes for anyone who earns less than $200,000 a year. The problem is to keep that promise he would have to break almost all of his other ones.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Again, that was from yesterday. "The New York Times" says the new spending programs proposed by Senator Kerry would total about $771 billion. Go back to the president's point, how do you pay for it?
JOE LOCKHART, SENIOR ADVISOR, KERRY CAMPAIGN: Well, very simple. I mean, there's one difference between these candidates -- well, there are a lot of differences. But on this issue, we would roll back the tax cut for the top 200,000 -- for the top 1 percent, people making over $200,000 a year, we think those people who need the tax cut the least. Keep for it the middle class in America. That would raise enough money to pay for primarily the health care plans, some homeland security.
And there's a big difference. I mean, the president's arrogance here is breath-taking. This is a guy who has taken a $5.6 trillion surplus and turned it into a $2 trillion deficit. I think he's probably the last person we need to be lectured by on fiscal responsibility.
HEMMER: Let me go back to the issue of taxes. Our Gallup poll that came out two days when asked, who would increase your taxes? John Kerry picked up 48 percent to George Bush's 25 percent. Can you win this election with this perception?
LOCKHART: Yes, I think you probably over-sampled the millionaires a little bit. But, seriously, this is why the debates are important, because all of the garbage that goes over in the ads and in the speeches, the things that aren't true and are just downright dishonest, are brought to check. And John Kerry will bring the evidence out.
Two important points: One, John Snow, the treasury secretary, went to Ohio yesterday, the ground zero of job loss in America, and said job loss is a myth, that there haven't been job losses. I mean, he really -- I don't know what he was drinking yesterday, but we should all have some of it when we're feeling down.
Second, they've a health care ad out right now that talks about John Kerry and big government. None of it's true. There's a health care crisis in this country because they have done nothing, and that's where we'll join the debate tonight.
HEMMER: Let me also go to the word "liberal" that we anticipate will be dropped by the president tonight. Will John Kerry embrace that label, or will he run from it?
LOCKHART: He's not going embrace it or run from it. He's going to talk about his record. John Kerry is a moderate Democrat. He always has been in the United States Senate. He was a leader on welfare reform against the interest or the majority of the Democratic Party, a leader and one of the first Democrats to come out and aggressively push for a balanced budget, putting 100,000 cops on the street, tough anti-crime programs. That's his record.
I mean, George Bush can throw all of the labels out he wants. But what happens in these debates is George Bush throws a bunch of attacks out, John Kerry talks reasonably and confidently about what he believes, and that's why John Kerry wins each and every debate. And that's why he'll win tonight.
HEMMER: So, you anticipate him winning tonight. Also in our polling, it shows who will win? John Kerry 54 to 34 percent. Do you like being the favorite going into tonight? LOCKHART: Well, listen, you know, I think we like being the underdog taking on the incumbent. The problem is, on that front, we have won the first two debates. So, we may be a favorite for tonight, but really the story is the president has got a lot of pressure on him. You can't lose three consecutive debates as an incumbent and still get rehired by the American public. So, it's make-or-break night tonight for President Bush.
HEMMER: Joe Lockhart, thanks, there live in Arizona this morning.
Nicolle Devenish up in a few moments with the Bush campaign.
The presidential debate, the third and final one later tonight in Tempe, Arizona. Our primetime coverage starts at 7:00 Eastern.
Now Heidi with more.
COLLINS: And voter registration problems have been cropping up in Colorado. They're getting a lot of attention because of Colorado's position as a swing state now. Duplicate absentee ballot applications and felons registered to vote have been discovered. Records show felons have voted as eventually as the August primary despite a law forbidding it. Ahead in the 9:00 hour, the governor of Colorado is going to be joining us with that and more on election issues in his state.
A courtroom surprise in the Scott Peterson case. The defense was supposed to get under way yesterday morning, but, as Ted Rowlands reports, the trial has been put on hold.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A packed courtroom waiting to hear the start of the defense case heard instead that the Scott Peterson murder trial has been delayed. A source close to the case tells CNN that prosecutors needed more time after receiving witness information over the weekend.
JANEY PETERSON, SISTER-IN-LAW: Any delay is disappointing, but we'll be back next week.
ROWLANDS: Judge Al Delucchi told the jury that having to tell them about another delay was like pulling teeth, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. The judge says he anticipates deliberations will start the first week of November.
According to people in the courtroom, some jurors seemed frustrated by the latest delay.
JIM HAMMER, LEGAL ANALYST: I'll tell you, the one thing that really angers jurors, besides lawyers talking secretly up at the bench without them listening, is delays. And they came in 40 minutes late today, and now another dead week. So, they looked very frustrated, downcast frankly. ROWLANDS (on camera): The defense case is scheduled to begin when court resumes next Monday. Closing arguments are tentatively set November 1 and 2, with the jury scheduled to get the case November 3.
Ted Rowlands, CNN, Redwood City, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
The Associated Press reports a source close to the case tells them the delay revolves around photos. The pictures and an expert witness are expected to be used to refute prosecutors' claim that Peterson used four homemade cement anchors to sink his wife's body in San Francisco Bay.
HEMMER: We want to get back to politics now. The Bush campaign, Nicolle Devenish is with us now, communications director for the Bush camp.
Good morning, Nicolle. Good to have you back with us here.
NICOLLE DEVENISH, COMM. DIRECTOR, BUSH CAMPAIGN: Good morning.
HEMMER: Here's your challenge tonight. The poll numbers show across the board John Kerry leads George Bush on these domestic issues: the economy, health care, education, Medicare, the environment. Is that the challenge? And if so, how does the president change that tonight?
DEVENISH: You know, it's funny. I loved listening to your interview with Joe Lockhart. And the campaign is certainly more interesting now that the face of the Kerry campaign is Joe Lockhart and his political attacks.
But the Kerry -- here is what people will see tonight. The Kerry campaign has reminded me of a peacock over the last 10 days. They're very interested in admiring their feathers and really talking up their performance in the debates, but Americans are looking for a leader. And there's only one person in the race who has led on the issue of health care, who has added a prescription drug benefit to Medicare.
There is only one candidate in the race who has led for America's small business centers, who, as you know, create most of the jobs in America. And there's only one candidate in the race who can protect Americans from John Kerry's promised tax hike. This isn't a tax hike that we've made up. We couldn't make this up if we wanted to. This is a tax hike that John Kerry has promised. Seventy percent of the small business owners in America would shoulder the tax hike.
HEMMER: Let me get back to the economy here. Here is what the president has to defend his record over the past four years. In 2000 before he took office, there was a surplus of $230 billion. Four years later in 2004, $415 billion deficit. How do you defend that?
DEVENISH: Well, you would only have to defend it if you forgot that the attacks of September 11 really ravaged our economy. We lost a million jobs in the 90 days after September 11. And I think all Americans remember, and it's very much imprinted on our minds the way this president rallied the nation in the days and weeks after September 11, but he also rallied our economy. He headed up to Wall Street and got the markets moving again. He passed well-timed tax relief to really assure our small business. He went to Chicago and helped our airline industry get back on its feet.
So, this president has a record that we're very proud of. And certainly, certainly, at a time of war, when our nation undergoes an attack like the attacks of September 11, and when we inherit a recession from the previous administration, we're going to see real challenges on this economy.
But the president believes in the spirit and tenacity of America's small business owners. And really his economic agenda is crafted to grow the economy, which stands in very stark contrast to John Kerry's vision and record.
HEMMER: Let me keep it on 2004. Back to the polling numbers. The approval rating is below 50 percent, right at 47 percent, his low mark for the White House over four years. You know what history says when any president incumbent running for re-election is below that 50 mark. Why is this number at 47, Nicolle?
DEVENISH: You know, I think both sides, you know, if they looked at you with a straight face, would have to tell you that we certainly expected the race to tighten. And so, this is a natural tightening. But people now in the next 20 days -- is it 20 days -- are making a choice. And they have a very clear choice.
And our goal tonight is to lay out the real differences. You look at all of the big issues on energy, this president has led, he has put out a plan and he has a vision. John Kerry has blocked energy reform.
You look at education, this president has passed education reforms that make schools accountable to kids and parents. John Kerry now trashes those reforms.
You have a president who stood for reforming government to serve the needs of families and of ordinary Americans. And John Kerry has stood up for liberal special interests and has voted as any Massachusetts senator would.
HEMMER: Let the debate begin. Nicolle, thanks for your time.
DEVENISH: Thanks.
HEMMER: Nicolle Devenish. Our primetime coverage later tonight, 7:00 Eastern right here on CNN, and the debate gets under way two hours after that at 9:00 -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, you know about the flu shot shortage. Now comes word somebody may be getting gouged because of it. Andy Serwer is going to talk about that in "Minding Your Business." HEMMER: Also in "90-Second Pop," the target of Eminem's new video, "Just Lost It," is fighting back. Michael Jackson is taking on the real slim shady in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Checking in with Jack now once again on the "Question of the Day."
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, a pretty good little topic this morning. In 1993, when he was 17, this punk named Christopher Simmons and one of his punk friends who was 16, broke into a woman named Shirley Crook's (ph) home in Missouri, kidnapped her, drove her to a railroad bridge while she was still alive, bound and gagged. And then they threw her into the river from the bridge, where she drowned. Her body was found the next day. Simmons was sentenced to death.
Now the Supreme Court is going to decide whether he should be executed. Lawyers for Simmons want his sentence overturned, saying that he was -- quote -- "a troubled youth at the time, emotionally unformed and impulsive."
The question is this: Should juveniles be subjected to the death penalty in this country? And we're getting a lot of good stuff.
James in Claremont, Illinois: "Yes, Jack, juveniles should face the death penalty. Even at an early age, there is a little voice inside all of us that tells us right from wrong. Sending them to a juvenile center until they are of age and then giving them a clean record isn't working."
Doug in Bloomfield, New Jersey, which is very close to where I live, as a matter of fact, not that that's relevant to anything: "There is nothing juvenile or forgivable about cold-blooded murder. So age should not be a factor in determining the death penalty in cases like this."
Susan in Rochester: "I find it odd the same people who would fight to the death to make sure a child is born are the same ones willing fry them a few years later. If only we were truly a culture of life in this country for the born and unborn."
Reg in Thunder Bay, Ontario, my man: "I think these bleeding- heart, anti-death- penalty liberals should be forced to hire these poor misguided young men as baby sitters. Put your children where your mouth is"
And finally this: "Jack, you, sir, win the title of the most grizzled." It's signed "Dick Cheney, Andy Rooney and Charles Groden," but we don't seem to be able to get that full screen up on the television set, which is what we had planned to do. Let's hope the trip to Chicago works better than the previous 30 seconds just did.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Yes.
CAFFERTY: Yes. SERWER: They don't have the death penalty in Canada, do they, for Reg?
CAFFERTY: For Reg? I like Reg.
SERWER: I know.
CAFFERTY: No, I mean...
HEMMER: Reg is a loyal viewer, keeping on e-mailing.
CAFFERTY: He's keeping me employed. Reg is paying my kid's tuition to Tulane.
(CROSSTALK)
HEMMER: Have you followed this flu story, word of price gouging in different parts of the country? Andy is watching that. What do you have?
SERWER: Yes, it didn't take long for this one, Bill. You may remember, of course, last week the British regulators shut down the Chiron facility in Liverpool. They make flu vaccine. This cut the amount of flu vaccine in the United States by half.
Now, Kansas' state attorney general, a gentlemen named Phill Kline, is suing a Florida drug distributor alleging price gouging. It's hard to argue with him if you look at these numbers. Check it out. A vial of flu vaccine -- that's 10 doses in a vial. I found that out this morning. There are 10 doses in a vial. It costs $85 from this company called Meds-Stat in Florida before the Chiron incident. Now they are charging $900.
HEMMER: Oh!
SERWER: Well, gee. Let's do a little econ-101, shall we? You know, if the supply is cut in half, you'd think you'd be able to double the price, OK? Not raise it tenfold...
HEMMER: My gosh!
SERWER: ... which is what this company has done. No response yet from the company.
HEMMER: But you're going to keep an eye on it, aren't you?
SERWER: We'll be watching it. I think it's pretty amazing. And the fact that the government isn't in charge of the vaccine program in this country to begin with is a big mistake.
HEMMER: And you heard what Dr. Gerbing (ph) told Heidi this half-hour.
COLLINS: Yes.
HEMMER: We advise healthy people not to get their shots. Well, who determines healthy in this season?
SERWER: Yes. Well, didn't they say that last year?
CAFFERTY: Why is this country without flu vaccine? I mean, let's start there. This is 2004.
SERWER: Yes.
CAFFERTY: Why the hell isn't there flu vaccine in this country? Just a thought.
COLLINS: Still to come this morning, is Hollywood's brat pack making a big comeback with a new cast and characters? 90-Second Poppers take as look ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: It's "90-Second Pop" for a Wednesday with all of the pop players today. Toure, CNN's pop culture correspondent, Sarah Bernard, contributing editor for "New York" magazine, and B.J. Sigesmund, staff editor for "US Weekly." Good morning, guys.
B.J. SIGESMUND, STAFF EDITOR, "US WEEKLY": Good morning.
SARAH BERNARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: Good morning.
COLLINS: Toure, I want to start with you. Michael Jackson is pretty fired up about Eminem and his new video, "Just Lose It." You know, he's being mocked by Enimen, and this is not making him happy. What's going on here?
TOURE, CNN POPULAR CULTURE CORRESPONDENT: Right. In the final scene of the video, you see Eminem dressed as Michael Jackson with a bunch of little boys behind him bouncing on the bed. They don't actually do anything more than just bounce on the bed. But once again, Eminem is poking right in somebody's sore spot, messing with somebody.
And this is -- Eminem is all about schoolyard logic, right? He's the schoolyard, taunting bully. And Michael Jackson never went to school, so he doesn't know, like, how to deal with it.
BERNARD: He wanted...
COLLINS: He wants all of the networks to pull this video.
SIGESMUND: Well, at least one of them has, right?
COLLINS: Yes.
SIGESMUND: BET has decided that in respect to -- out of respect for Michael Jackson, because they have a long relationship...
BERNARD: I think...
(CROSSTALK)
SIGESMUND: They are taking it off the air.
BERNARD: I was going to say, I think this controversy is all to mask the fact that this is one of his worst songs ever.
COLLINS: Ah!
TOURE: No, no...
BERNARD: This is such a bad song.
TOURE: No, no, it's...
BERNARD: And we've been talking about how he impersonates Madonna, Pee-Wee Herman, M.C. Hammer. And, you know, thank god he's keeping this song, you know, being talked about because it's so bad.
TOURE: I like this song. No, I like this song. I like this song.
SIGESMUND: I'm just disappointed in Eminem, because picking on Michael Jackson at this point in time is like shooting fish in a barrel. Can't he do better than that?
TOURE: But that's what Eminem does. He just makes fun of the easiest targets, N Sync, Britney, Madonna gets it (UNINTELLIGIBLE), M.C. Hammer.
SIGESMUND: Usually there's more...
BERNARD: Right.
SIGESMUND: ... with his impersonations of Bill Clinton and Osama bin Laden, they were more provocative and more intelligent, you know.
COLLINS: Yes, does he really need to be doing that?
TOURE: That's true.
SIGESMUND: Michael Jackson?
COLLINS: True. Is Michael Jackson making it worse, too, by fighting back so hard?
TOURE: Oh, yes. Eminem loves the controversy.
BERNARD: Well, he does, yes. He loves that part.
TOURE: So, yes, totally making it hype. That's what Eminem wants.
COLLINS: All right. So, let's move on to this, the brat pack.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: The old brat pack, as we remember...
BERNARD: That's right.
COLLINS: ... Demi Moore, Rob Lowe, Ally Sheedy, Emilio Estevez -- I could go on and on.
BERNARD: "St. Elmo's Fire."
COLLINS: Andrew -- I mean, this is, you know, "St. Elmo's Fire," as you say. But now there's apparently this new brat pack, some of these new names: Lindsay Lohan, Britney Spears, Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen, Jessica Simpson. They're all women, by the way.
BERNARD: That's right. No guys.
COLLINS: But is this really the new brat pack?
BERNARD: This is the new -- I think instead of the new brat pack, I think this is the new spoiled brat pack, because the fact is -- do you remember when Emilio Estevez and Demi Moore, they all came up, they did not have $100 million like the Olsens have...
(CROSSTALK)
SIGESMUND: Yes.
BERNARD: ... or $32 million like Britney. I mean, these are little moguls. They are not exactly just sort of young 20-something actresses. These are people with, you know, Pepsi contracts and fashion lines. So they're more than that at this point.
SIGESMUND: They are like the brat pack, though, in that they hang out together. I mean, somehow Paris and Lindsay have gotten to be best friends.
COLLINS: Really?
SIGESMUND: Yes, the only one who doesn't really hang out with them is Britney. But can you believe that Britney is still only...
COLLINS: She's married now.
SIGESMUND: Oh, yes, she's an old married lady.
(CROSSTALK)
SIGESMUND: But can you believe that Britney is still only 22 years old? Doesn't she seem like she's lived three lifetimes already?
TOURE: But this thing -- Lindsay doesn't hang out with them, does she?
SIGESMUND: Yes.
TOURE: I mean, like these guys -- the brat packers were friends, like, before they were stars. COLLINS: I feel like we're in high school right now.
TOURE: Like, they were young Hollywood guys trying to attack Hollywood together. Like, they really friends. It wasn't, like, constructed. Like, these people, the new supposed brat pack, they became friends after they became stars.
SIGESMUND: That's true.
BERNARD: Their fame brought them together.
TOURE: Yes, and they have other famous friends, too. Like, do they become part of it? Like...
SIGESMUND: We'll see.
BERNARD: Well -- I mean, for their sake, hopefully they won't take that trajectory. Because where are they now? Where is Anthony Michael Hall?
COLLINS: That's true.
TOURE: Well, you know, Anthony Michael Hall is doing just fine on USA Network, thank you. But...
BERNARD: Oh, well.
TOURE: But the thing with the brat pack is that they made movies that defined our generation. This group is just making projects that define themselves.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: All right, let's talk, B.J., if we can, about the FCC now. A huge fine...
SIGESMUND: Yes.
COLLINS: ... like the largest indecency fine in history, in fact. It's going to be about a million bucks here, fining Fox for this episode of "Married by America." It's actually going to amount to 7,000 for each station that went ahead and aired this program.
SIGESMUND: Right, right.
COLLINS: What gives?
SIGESMUND: What we're seeing here is continued fall-out from the Janet Jackson Super Bowl episode earlier this year. This is the biggest fine ever given to a single show. What's crazy, though, is this show was so small. It was on a full year and a half ago, "Married by America." Who even remembers it? It was about these...
BERNARD: I don't remember this show at all.
SIGESMUND: ... single Americans who agreed to get engaged and marry perfect strangers just because American TV...
COLLINS: Well, what's different about this and "The Bachelor," "The Bachelorette?"
SIGESMUND: Nothing, nothing. But Fox says that on one -- I'm sorry, the FCC says that on one particular episode, April 7, 2003, you saw six minutes of strippers and people licking whipped cream off certain parts of other people's bodies. And even though it was all pixilated, they say that any child watching could have seen it. This was vulgar and gratuitous, and clearly pandering and clearly aiming to titillate audiences.
COLLINS: Is that the verbiage used?
SIGESMUND: Yes.
COLLINS: I understand. All right.
SIGESMUND: That's the crazy part.
BERNARD: And they've seen the real world, like...
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Well, they're sensitive to that, I am sure. You guys, I appreciate you being here today. As always, B.J. Sarah and Toure, thanks again, guys -- Bill.
HEMMER: Heidi, thanks for that. In a moment, we'll hear from John Edwards's wife, Elizabeth, our guest in a moment, find out what she says about the criticism facing her husband for what he said this week about Christopher Reeve and the potential for stem cell research. We'll get to that at the top of the hour.
Later tonight at 7:00 Eastern, our live primetime coverage begins in Tempe, Arizona. Back in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired October 13, 2004 - 07:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everyone. It's 7:30 here in New York. Good morning to you, by the way.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
HEMMER: Still waking up?
COLLINS: Oh, I'm just about there.
HEMMER: Listen, the first two presidential debates, you had about 110 million viewers between debates No. 1 and 2. And so, we'll see what happens tonight in Tempe, Arizona, which candidate stands to gain or lose the most tonight to focus on domestic issues. We'll talk to both campaigns in a moment, Nicolle Devenish from the Bush camp, Joe Lockhart from the Kerry campaign, talk about strategy.
COLLINS: Entertainment of another kind, also in "90-Second Pop" this morning, coming up a little bit later the gang talking about Michael Jackson, who is said to be furious about this: Eminem's new video and the treatment he gets in that video. And, of course, Michael still wields a lot of power in the entertainment industry. So, we're going to look at where this feud is going.
HEMMER: Yes, stay tuned for that.
Daryn Kagan, meanwhile, is at the CNN Center. Daryn, good to have you with us today. And good morning.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Bill, my pleasure. Good morning, and good to see you guys.
Let's begin with international news. Election workers in Afghanistan are getting ready to count ballots in that country's first ever presidential election. The official count has been delayed by complaints of irregularities in last Saturday's vote. Authorities are now investigating those complaints, including claims that some people voted more than once. Official results from the election are expected at the end of the month.
Here in the U.S., at least nine people are recovering this morning from an explosion that ripped through a Long Island, New York car dealership. Firefighters rushed to the wreckage yesterday, pulling out three people trapped in the rubble. A natural gas explosion is suspected of causing that collapse.
More charges in the murder trial of former electrician Daniel Pelosi. Pelosi is accused of murdering millionaire Theodore Ammon back in 2001. Pelosi now faces additional charges for attempting to tamper with the jury and witnesses, as well as attempted assault. Opening arguments are scheduled for the murder trial for later today.
And a wildfire in northern California continues to burn this morning, destroying nearly 30,000 acres. Firefighters faced a difficult job yesterday with swirling winds rendering fire lines nearly useless. The fire destroyed a look-out, prompting a voluntary evacuation for a nearby town. Officials believe it was intentionally started on Sunday night. And for the geographic count up there, Bill, that's about an hour or so north of San Francisco.
HEMMER: All right, got it. OK, Daryn, thanks for that. We'll talk to you a bit later this morning.
KAGAN: OK.
HEMMER: Twenty days and counting now until Election Day. Both candidates are gearing up for tonight's final debate. President Bush attending a rally in Colorado Springs, Colorado, yesterday before making his way to Arizona for the face-off later tonight. Senator John Kerry wakes up in Santa Fe, New Mexico, today, where yesterday he took some time out for some bike riding. He heads to Arizona later this afternoon.
In the meantime, we want to hear from both sides this morning. Tonight's debate is focusing on domestic issues.
Joe Lockhart, a senior advisor with the Kerry campaign, in Scottsdale this morning.
Joe, good morning.
Good morning.
HEMMER: Domestic issues mean taxes. Certainly that will be on the agenda tonight. President Bush talking about that yesterday. Listen, and we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Then he was asked to look into the camera and promise he would not raise taxes for anyone who earns less than $200,000 a year. The problem is to keep that promise he would have to break almost all of his other ones.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Again, that was from yesterday. "The New York Times" says the new spending programs proposed by Senator Kerry would total about $771 billion. Go back to the president's point, how do you pay for it?
JOE LOCKHART, SENIOR ADVISOR, KERRY CAMPAIGN: Well, very simple. I mean, there's one difference between these candidates -- well, there are a lot of differences. But on this issue, we would roll back the tax cut for the top 200,000 -- for the top 1 percent, people making over $200,000 a year, we think those people who need the tax cut the least. Keep for it the middle class in America. That would raise enough money to pay for primarily the health care plans, some homeland security.
And there's a big difference. I mean, the president's arrogance here is breath-taking. This is a guy who has taken a $5.6 trillion surplus and turned it into a $2 trillion deficit. I think he's probably the last person we need to be lectured by on fiscal responsibility.
HEMMER: Let me go back to the issue of taxes. Our Gallup poll that came out two days when asked, who would increase your taxes? John Kerry picked up 48 percent to George Bush's 25 percent. Can you win this election with this perception?
LOCKHART: Yes, I think you probably over-sampled the millionaires a little bit. But, seriously, this is why the debates are important, because all of the garbage that goes over in the ads and in the speeches, the things that aren't true and are just downright dishonest, are brought to check. And John Kerry will bring the evidence out.
Two important points: One, John Snow, the treasury secretary, went to Ohio yesterday, the ground zero of job loss in America, and said job loss is a myth, that there haven't been job losses. I mean, he really -- I don't know what he was drinking yesterday, but we should all have some of it when we're feeling down.
Second, they've a health care ad out right now that talks about John Kerry and big government. None of it's true. There's a health care crisis in this country because they have done nothing, and that's where we'll join the debate tonight.
HEMMER: Let me also go to the word "liberal" that we anticipate will be dropped by the president tonight. Will John Kerry embrace that label, or will he run from it?
LOCKHART: He's not going embrace it or run from it. He's going to talk about his record. John Kerry is a moderate Democrat. He always has been in the United States Senate. He was a leader on welfare reform against the interest or the majority of the Democratic Party, a leader and one of the first Democrats to come out and aggressively push for a balanced budget, putting 100,000 cops on the street, tough anti-crime programs. That's his record.
I mean, George Bush can throw all of the labels out he wants. But what happens in these debates is George Bush throws a bunch of attacks out, John Kerry talks reasonably and confidently about what he believes, and that's why John Kerry wins each and every debate. And that's why he'll win tonight.
HEMMER: So, you anticipate him winning tonight. Also in our polling, it shows who will win? John Kerry 54 to 34 percent. Do you like being the favorite going into tonight? LOCKHART: Well, listen, you know, I think we like being the underdog taking on the incumbent. The problem is, on that front, we have won the first two debates. So, we may be a favorite for tonight, but really the story is the president has got a lot of pressure on him. You can't lose three consecutive debates as an incumbent and still get rehired by the American public. So, it's make-or-break night tonight for President Bush.
HEMMER: Joe Lockhart, thanks, there live in Arizona this morning.
Nicolle Devenish up in a few moments with the Bush campaign.
The presidential debate, the third and final one later tonight in Tempe, Arizona. Our primetime coverage starts at 7:00 Eastern.
Now Heidi with more.
COLLINS: And voter registration problems have been cropping up in Colorado. They're getting a lot of attention because of Colorado's position as a swing state now. Duplicate absentee ballot applications and felons registered to vote have been discovered. Records show felons have voted as eventually as the August primary despite a law forbidding it. Ahead in the 9:00 hour, the governor of Colorado is going to be joining us with that and more on election issues in his state.
A courtroom surprise in the Scott Peterson case. The defense was supposed to get under way yesterday morning, but, as Ted Rowlands reports, the trial has been put on hold.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A packed courtroom waiting to hear the start of the defense case heard instead that the Scott Peterson murder trial has been delayed. A source close to the case tells CNN that prosecutors needed more time after receiving witness information over the weekend.
JANEY PETERSON, SISTER-IN-LAW: Any delay is disappointing, but we'll be back next week.
ROWLANDS: Judge Al Delucchi told the jury that having to tell them about another delay was like pulling teeth, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. The judge says he anticipates deliberations will start the first week of November.
According to people in the courtroom, some jurors seemed frustrated by the latest delay.
JIM HAMMER, LEGAL ANALYST: I'll tell you, the one thing that really angers jurors, besides lawyers talking secretly up at the bench without them listening, is delays. And they came in 40 minutes late today, and now another dead week. So, they looked very frustrated, downcast frankly. ROWLANDS (on camera): The defense case is scheduled to begin when court resumes next Monday. Closing arguments are tentatively set November 1 and 2, with the jury scheduled to get the case November 3.
Ted Rowlands, CNN, Redwood City, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
The Associated Press reports a source close to the case tells them the delay revolves around photos. The pictures and an expert witness are expected to be used to refute prosecutors' claim that Peterson used four homemade cement anchors to sink his wife's body in San Francisco Bay.
HEMMER: We want to get back to politics now. The Bush campaign, Nicolle Devenish is with us now, communications director for the Bush camp.
Good morning, Nicolle. Good to have you back with us here.
NICOLLE DEVENISH, COMM. DIRECTOR, BUSH CAMPAIGN: Good morning.
HEMMER: Here's your challenge tonight. The poll numbers show across the board John Kerry leads George Bush on these domestic issues: the economy, health care, education, Medicare, the environment. Is that the challenge? And if so, how does the president change that tonight?
DEVENISH: You know, it's funny. I loved listening to your interview with Joe Lockhart. And the campaign is certainly more interesting now that the face of the Kerry campaign is Joe Lockhart and his political attacks.
But the Kerry -- here is what people will see tonight. The Kerry campaign has reminded me of a peacock over the last 10 days. They're very interested in admiring their feathers and really talking up their performance in the debates, but Americans are looking for a leader. And there's only one person in the race who has led on the issue of health care, who has added a prescription drug benefit to Medicare.
There is only one candidate in the race who has led for America's small business centers, who, as you know, create most of the jobs in America. And there's only one candidate in the race who can protect Americans from John Kerry's promised tax hike. This isn't a tax hike that we've made up. We couldn't make this up if we wanted to. This is a tax hike that John Kerry has promised. Seventy percent of the small business owners in America would shoulder the tax hike.
HEMMER: Let me get back to the economy here. Here is what the president has to defend his record over the past four years. In 2000 before he took office, there was a surplus of $230 billion. Four years later in 2004, $415 billion deficit. How do you defend that?
DEVENISH: Well, you would only have to defend it if you forgot that the attacks of September 11 really ravaged our economy. We lost a million jobs in the 90 days after September 11. And I think all Americans remember, and it's very much imprinted on our minds the way this president rallied the nation in the days and weeks after September 11, but he also rallied our economy. He headed up to Wall Street and got the markets moving again. He passed well-timed tax relief to really assure our small business. He went to Chicago and helped our airline industry get back on its feet.
So, this president has a record that we're very proud of. And certainly, certainly, at a time of war, when our nation undergoes an attack like the attacks of September 11, and when we inherit a recession from the previous administration, we're going to see real challenges on this economy.
But the president believes in the spirit and tenacity of America's small business owners. And really his economic agenda is crafted to grow the economy, which stands in very stark contrast to John Kerry's vision and record.
HEMMER: Let me keep it on 2004. Back to the polling numbers. The approval rating is below 50 percent, right at 47 percent, his low mark for the White House over four years. You know what history says when any president incumbent running for re-election is below that 50 mark. Why is this number at 47, Nicolle?
DEVENISH: You know, I think both sides, you know, if they looked at you with a straight face, would have to tell you that we certainly expected the race to tighten. And so, this is a natural tightening. But people now in the next 20 days -- is it 20 days -- are making a choice. And they have a very clear choice.
And our goal tonight is to lay out the real differences. You look at all of the big issues on energy, this president has led, he has put out a plan and he has a vision. John Kerry has blocked energy reform.
You look at education, this president has passed education reforms that make schools accountable to kids and parents. John Kerry now trashes those reforms.
You have a president who stood for reforming government to serve the needs of families and of ordinary Americans. And John Kerry has stood up for liberal special interests and has voted as any Massachusetts senator would.
HEMMER: Let the debate begin. Nicolle, thanks for your time.
DEVENISH: Thanks.
HEMMER: Nicolle Devenish. Our primetime coverage later tonight, 7:00 Eastern right here on CNN, and the debate gets under way two hours after that at 9:00 -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, you know about the flu shot shortage. Now comes word somebody may be getting gouged because of it. Andy Serwer is going to talk about that in "Minding Your Business." HEMMER: Also in "90-Second Pop," the target of Eminem's new video, "Just Lost It," is fighting back. Michael Jackson is taking on the real slim shady in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Checking in with Jack now once again on the "Question of the Day."
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, a pretty good little topic this morning. In 1993, when he was 17, this punk named Christopher Simmons and one of his punk friends who was 16, broke into a woman named Shirley Crook's (ph) home in Missouri, kidnapped her, drove her to a railroad bridge while she was still alive, bound and gagged. And then they threw her into the river from the bridge, where she drowned. Her body was found the next day. Simmons was sentenced to death.
Now the Supreme Court is going to decide whether he should be executed. Lawyers for Simmons want his sentence overturned, saying that he was -- quote -- "a troubled youth at the time, emotionally unformed and impulsive."
The question is this: Should juveniles be subjected to the death penalty in this country? And we're getting a lot of good stuff.
James in Claremont, Illinois: "Yes, Jack, juveniles should face the death penalty. Even at an early age, there is a little voice inside all of us that tells us right from wrong. Sending them to a juvenile center until they are of age and then giving them a clean record isn't working."
Doug in Bloomfield, New Jersey, which is very close to where I live, as a matter of fact, not that that's relevant to anything: "There is nothing juvenile or forgivable about cold-blooded murder. So age should not be a factor in determining the death penalty in cases like this."
Susan in Rochester: "I find it odd the same people who would fight to the death to make sure a child is born are the same ones willing fry them a few years later. If only we were truly a culture of life in this country for the born and unborn."
Reg in Thunder Bay, Ontario, my man: "I think these bleeding- heart, anti-death- penalty liberals should be forced to hire these poor misguided young men as baby sitters. Put your children where your mouth is"
And finally this: "Jack, you, sir, win the title of the most grizzled." It's signed "Dick Cheney, Andy Rooney and Charles Groden," but we don't seem to be able to get that full screen up on the television set, which is what we had planned to do. Let's hope the trip to Chicago works better than the previous 30 seconds just did.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Yes.
CAFFERTY: Yes. SERWER: They don't have the death penalty in Canada, do they, for Reg?
CAFFERTY: For Reg? I like Reg.
SERWER: I know.
CAFFERTY: No, I mean...
HEMMER: Reg is a loyal viewer, keeping on e-mailing.
CAFFERTY: He's keeping me employed. Reg is paying my kid's tuition to Tulane.
(CROSSTALK)
HEMMER: Have you followed this flu story, word of price gouging in different parts of the country? Andy is watching that. What do you have?
SERWER: Yes, it didn't take long for this one, Bill. You may remember, of course, last week the British regulators shut down the Chiron facility in Liverpool. They make flu vaccine. This cut the amount of flu vaccine in the United States by half.
Now, Kansas' state attorney general, a gentlemen named Phill Kline, is suing a Florida drug distributor alleging price gouging. It's hard to argue with him if you look at these numbers. Check it out. A vial of flu vaccine -- that's 10 doses in a vial. I found that out this morning. There are 10 doses in a vial. It costs $85 from this company called Meds-Stat in Florida before the Chiron incident. Now they are charging $900.
HEMMER: Oh!
SERWER: Well, gee. Let's do a little econ-101, shall we? You know, if the supply is cut in half, you'd think you'd be able to double the price, OK? Not raise it tenfold...
HEMMER: My gosh!
SERWER: ... which is what this company has done. No response yet from the company.
HEMMER: But you're going to keep an eye on it, aren't you?
SERWER: We'll be watching it. I think it's pretty amazing. And the fact that the government isn't in charge of the vaccine program in this country to begin with is a big mistake.
HEMMER: And you heard what Dr. Gerbing (ph) told Heidi this half-hour.
COLLINS: Yes.
HEMMER: We advise healthy people not to get their shots. Well, who determines healthy in this season?
SERWER: Yes. Well, didn't they say that last year?
CAFFERTY: Why is this country without flu vaccine? I mean, let's start there. This is 2004.
SERWER: Yes.
CAFFERTY: Why the hell isn't there flu vaccine in this country? Just a thought.
COLLINS: Still to come this morning, is Hollywood's brat pack making a big comeback with a new cast and characters? 90-Second Poppers take as look ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: It's "90-Second Pop" for a Wednesday with all of the pop players today. Toure, CNN's pop culture correspondent, Sarah Bernard, contributing editor for "New York" magazine, and B.J. Sigesmund, staff editor for "US Weekly." Good morning, guys.
B.J. SIGESMUND, STAFF EDITOR, "US WEEKLY": Good morning.
SARAH BERNARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: Good morning.
COLLINS: Toure, I want to start with you. Michael Jackson is pretty fired up about Eminem and his new video, "Just Lose It." You know, he's being mocked by Enimen, and this is not making him happy. What's going on here?
TOURE, CNN POPULAR CULTURE CORRESPONDENT: Right. In the final scene of the video, you see Eminem dressed as Michael Jackson with a bunch of little boys behind him bouncing on the bed. They don't actually do anything more than just bounce on the bed. But once again, Eminem is poking right in somebody's sore spot, messing with somebody.
And this is -- Eminem is all about schoolyard logic, right? He's the schoolyard, taunting bully. And Michael Jackson never went to school, so he doesn't know, like, how to deal with it.
BERNARD: He wanted...
COLLINS: He wants all of the networks to pull this video.
SIGESMUND: Well, at least one of them has, right?
COLLINS: Yes.
SIGESMUND: BET has decided that in respect to -- out of respect for Michael Jackson, because they have a long relationship...
BERNARD: I think...
(CROSSTALK)
SIGESMUND: They are taking it off the air.
BERNARD: I was going to say, I think this controversy is all to mask the fact that this is one of his worst songs ever.
COLLINS: Ah!
TOURE: No, no...
BERNARD: This is such a bad song.
TOURE: No, no, it's...
BERNARD: And we've been talking about how he impersonates Madonna, Pee-Wee Herman, M.C. Hammer. And, you know, thank god he's keeping this song, you know, being talked about because it's so bad.
TOURE: I like this song. No, I like this song. I like this song.
SIGESMUND: I'm just disappointed in Eminem, because picking on Michael Jackson at this point in time is like shooting fish in a barrel. Can't he do better than that?
TOURE: But that's what Eminem does. He just makes fun of the easiest targets, N Sync, Britney, Madonna gets it (UNINTELLIGIBLE), M.C. Hammer.
SIGESMUND: Usually there's more...
BERNARD: Right.
SIGESMUND: ... with his impersonations of Bill Clinton and Osama bin Laden, they were more provocative and more intelligent, you know.
COLLINS: Yes, does he really need to be doing that?
TOURE: That's true.
SIGESMUND: Michael Jackson?
COLLINS: True. Is Michael Jackson making it worse, too, by fighting back so hard?
TOURE: Oh, yes. Eminem loves the controversy.
BERNARD: Well, he does, yes. He loves that part.
TOURE: So, yes, totally making it hype. That's what Eminem wants.
COLLINS: All right. So, let's move on to this, the brat pack.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: The old brat pack, as we remember...
BERNARD: That's right.
COLLINS: ... Demi Moore, Rob Lowe, Ally Sheedy, Emilio Estevez -- I could go on and on.
BERNARD: "St. Elmo's Fire."
COLLINS: Andrew -- I mean, this is, you know, "St. Elmo's Fire," as you say. But now there's apparently this new brat pack, some of these new names: Lindsay Lohan, Britney Spears, Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen, Jessica Simpson. They're all women, by the way.
BERNARD: That's right. No guys.
COLLINS: But is this really the new brat pack?
BERNARD: This is the new -- I think instead of the new brat pack, I think this is the new spoiled brat pack, because the fact is -- do you remember when Emilio Estevez and Demi Moore, they all came up, they did not have $100 million like the Olsens have...
(CROSSTALK)
SIGESMUND: Yes.
BERNARD: ... or $32 million like Britney. I mean, these are little moguls. They are not exactly just sort of young 20-something actresses. These are people with, you know, Pepsi contracts and fashion lines. So they're more than that at this point.
SIGESMUND: They are like the brat pack, though, in that they hang out together. I mean, somehow Paris and Lindsay have gotten to be best friends.
COLLINS: Really?
SIGESMUND: Yes, the only one who doesn't really hang out with them is Britney. But can you believe that Britney is still only...
COLLINS: She's married now.
SIGESMUND: Oh, yes, she's an old married lady.
(CROSSTALK)
SIGESMUND: But can you believe that Britney is still only 22 years old? Doesn't she seem like she's lived three lifetimes already?
TOURE: But this thing -- Lindsay doesn't hang out with them, does she?
SIGESMUND: Yes.
TOURE: I mean, like these guys -- the brat packers were friends, like, before they were stars. COLLINS: I feel like we're in high school right now.
TOURE: Like, they were young Hollywood guys trying to attack Hollywood together. Like, they really friends. It wasn't, like, constructed. Like, these people, the new supposed brat pack, they became friends after they became stars.
SIGESMUND: That's true.
BERNARD: Their fame brought them together.
TOURE: Yes, and they have other famous friends, too. Like, do they become part of it? Like...
SIGESMUND: We'll see.
BERNARD: Well -- I mean, for their sake, hopefully they won't take that trajectory. Because where are they now? Where is Anthony Michael Hall?
COLLINS: That's true.
TOURE: Well, you know, Anthony Michael Hall is doing just fine on USA Network, thank you. But...
BERNARD: Oh, well.
TOURE: But the thing with the brat pack is that they made movies that defined our generation. This group is just making projects that define themselves.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: All right, let's talk, B.J., if we can, about the FCC now. A huge fine...
SIGESMUND: Yes.
COLLINS: ... like the largest indecency fine in history, in fact. It's going to be about a million bucks here, fining Fox for this episode of "Married by America." It's actually going to amount to 7,000 for each station that went ahead and aired this program.
SIGESMUND: Right, right.
COLLINS: What gives?
SIGESMUND: What we're seeing here is continued fall-out from the Janet Jackson Super Bowl episode earlier this year. This is the biggest fine ever given to a single show. What's crazy, though, is this show was so small. It was on a full year and a half ago, "Married by America." Who even remembers it? It was about these...
BERNARD: I don't remember this show at all.
SIGESMUND: ... single Americans who agreed to get engaged and marry perfect strangers just because American TV...
COLLINS: Well, what's different about this and "The Bachelor," "The Bachelorette?"
SIGESMUND: Nothing, nothing. But Fox says that on one -- I'm sorry, the FCC says that on one particular episode, April 7, 2003, you saw six minutes of strippers and people licking whipped cream off certain parts of other people's bodies. And even though it was all pixilated, they say that any child watching could have seen it. This was vulgar and gratuitous, and clearly pandering and clearly aiming to titillate audiences.
COLLINS: Is that the verbiage used?
SIGESMUND: Yes.
COLLINS: I understand. All right.
SIGESMUND: That's the crazy part.
BERNARD: And they've seen the real world, like...
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Well, they're sensitive to that, I am sure. You guys, I appreciate you being here today. As always, B.J. Sarah and Toure, thanks again, guys -- Bill.
HEMMER: Heidi, thanks for that. In a moment, we'll hear from John Edwards's wife, Elizabeth, our guest in a moment, find out what she says about the criticism facing her husband for what he said this week about Christopher Reeve and the potential for stem cell research. We'll get to that at the top of the hour.
Later tonight at 7:00 Eastern, our live primetime coverage begins in Tempe, Arizona. Back in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
