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Bush, Kerry Campaign With 15 Days to Go; Geragos Begins Presentation of Peterson's Defense

Aired October 18, 2004 - 19:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from Boulder, Colorado. I'm Anderson Cooper.
Time is running out. Bush and Kerry's last-minute maneuvers, last-gasp strategies saddle ground.

360 starts right now.

Fifteen days to go before America votes. Tonight, the new polls, the tough politics, and the war of words on the campaign trail.

Will a Colorado amendment bring power back to the popular vote, or plunge the country into a postelection chaos of Floridian proportions?

Mark Geragos on the attack. Scott Peterson's defense opens its case, but just who will they say killed Laci Peterson?

New court maneuvers in the legal fight against Bill O'Reilly. Fox News says it wants the tapes, and O'Reilly's accuser says she's become a target.

Does speaking in public make you break out in a cold sweat? How to overcome your phobias in our special series "Facing Your Fears."

And are you up to the 360 challenge? Just how much do you know about current events? Watch tonight's program, answer the questions. And maybe you'll win the prize.

ANNOUNCER: Live from the University of Colorado in Boulder, this is a special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360.

COOPER: And welcome to the University of Colorado. A lot of excited people here, excited about this election.

Just two weeks of presidential campaigning left. And the polls are about as steady as a seesaw, which is to say that if you pay too close attention, you could get motion sickness.

This week's numbers mostly show a reversal of last week, and when Senator Kerry had surged enough to even things up or take a slight lead. Now, according to CNN's poll of polls, an average of five major surveys, voter sentiment is about back to where it began before the debates.

Among likely voters, President Bush 50 percent, Senator Kerry 45 percent.

We begin this evening with John King and the Bush campaign.


JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The location was a bit of a surprise, the focus of the president speech anything but.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When one senator among 100 holds a policy of weakness, it doesn't make a lot of difference. But the presidency is an office of great responsibility and consequence.

KING: The scathing attack foreshadowed a bruising final two weeks. Mr. Bush said Senator Kerry repeatedly tried to slash intelligence funding, voted against major weapons systems, shifted positions on the Iraq war, and has voiced reservations about using military power against terrorist groups and rogue regimes.

BUSH: Senator Kerry's approach would permit a response only after America is hit. This kind of September the 10th attitude is no way to protect our country.

KING: Democrats complained of distortions and accused the president of preying on fear.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS, DEMOCRATIC VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He's exploiting a national tragedy for personal gain. And it's the lowest kind of politics.

KING: Senator Kerry prefers to close on health care and other pocketbook tactics, so Mr. Bush's strategy is to paint his opponent as a tax and spend liberal on the home front and as too weak for the times when it comes to national security.


ANNOUNCER: John Kerry and his liberal allies. Are they a risk we can afford to take today?


KING: New Jersey hasn't voted Republican for president since 1988.

BUSH: Oh, I know it might surprise some to see a Republican presidential candidate in New Jersey in late October.

KING: But some state polls show a dead heat. And by picking Marlton, Mr. Bush also guaranteed coverage in eastern Pennsylvania, one of the battlegrounds where Mr. Bush hopes security issues hold sway in the end.

(END VIDEOTAPE) KING: And as it enters these final two weeks, the Bush-Cheney campaign voicing public confidence, saying Senator Kerry has lost the momentum, in its view, that he gained after the first debate. But Anderson, some Republicans still a bit nervous. They note Mr. Bush is not above 50 percent in most of the horse-race polls. And one senior Republican said the president's job approval rating is in what he called, quote, "the nervous zone" for an incumbent, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, John King, for the -- thanks for that.

Fifteen days to go, and it is all about the battleground states. That's why we're in Colorado this evening. The challenger too, he was in Florida today, not working on his tan either.

Here is a report from senior political correspondent Candy Crowley.


CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The man who once led ground operations in Iraq told the Pentagon last December supplies were so short, it threatened the Army's ability to fight. The Pentagon says the shortages were addressed, but there is political punch left.

SEN. JOHN KERRY, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Listen to the troops and give the troops the equipment that they need. Stand up for the troops. Fight for the troops. Lead the troops.

CROWLEY: Infuriated by what it calls Kerry's riff, the Bush campaign noted that last October, military commanders went to Capitol Hill to lobby for $87 billion to fund the war, and Kerry voted no.

Puddle-jumping from West Palm to Tampa to Orlando, Kerry was in Florida touching base, literally, first, with angry Democrats.

KERRY: You have my pledge. You go to the polls, and we'll make sure that this time, every vote counts.

CROWLEY: And to Jewish supporters, 4 percent of Florida's 2000 vote, Kerry stressed his 100 percent support for the cause of Israel.

KERRY: I've climbed to the top of Masada, and I've stood on the top of Masada and yelled out as the air force recruits and others used to from the side of that cliff the words, "Am Ysroel, chai (ph)!"

CROWLEY: For seniors, 27 percent of Florida's vote, Kerry talked up his prescription drug plan and talked down the president's lack of plans for the flu shot shortage.

KERRY: If Halliburton made flu shots, you'd have more flu shots here than there are oranges in the state of Florida.


CROWLEY: Now, as John mentioned, Anderson, the Kerry campaign had intended to spend these last two weeks turning toward domestic issues. But the truth is, of the two speeches we've heard so far, and there'll be a third one here in Orlando, more than half of those speeches have been about Iraq in response to the president's speech today, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Candy Crowley, thanks for that.

Quick news note now, and a qualification of what we said at the outset this evening about the election being 15 days away. In fact, in some places, Florida among them, the election is already underway. Early votes began being cast today in the state that caused such a brouhaha in 2000.

And problems developed almost immediately. There were reports of incomplete paper ballots, election workers indifferent to difficulties, and a crash of the touch-screen system in Orange County. On the subject of the tabulation of votes, there is a lot of distressed out there right now.

Nationwide, a new CNN-"USA Today"-Gallup poll finds that less than a third of those asked said they were very confident that their votes would be counted accurately. Now, all the rest of the respondents were either somewhat confident or not confident at all.

Here in Colorado, residents are also getting an early chance to vote, just in time for the latest CNN-"USA Today"-Gallup poll showing that registered voters in this state are giving President Bush a slight 2-point edge over Senator Kerry. Among likely voters, Bush's lead stretches to 6 points.

Now, on November 2, Colorado not only votes for a president, but also on a controversial state amendment that could very well determine the outcome of this election. If passed, Amendment 36 would split Colorado's nine electoral votes according to the popular vote, rather than winner take all. That's the way it is now.

Supporters say it's a recipe for democracy, critics say it's a recipe for disaster.

CNN's Judy Woodruff reports.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On Amendment 35, one person, one vote.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Amendment 36 would do away with Colorado's winner-take-all system of awarding electoral votes. The state's nine electors would be divided among candidates based on the percentage of the popular vote they receive. Progressive populism, or...


WOODRUFF: Political consultant Eric Sonderman is leader of the opposition, Coloradans for a Really Stupid Idea. SONDERMAN: The idea of one state unilaterally disarming itself and voluntarily withdrawing from meaningful participation in the Electoral College strikes us as foolish.

WOODRUFF: In all likelihood, he says, both major party candidates would scoop up four votes each, leaving them competing for just one lonely elector, not exactly a huge prize. And Colorado's clout would be gone with the wind.

Still, why should one state's conundrum matter to the nation? Well, if Amendment 36 passes, it would take effect in this election. So if election night's a squeaker, and in the 13th hour, Colorado divvies up its nine votes, lawyers here could be very busy, something on the order of Florida 2000.

But for Thaddeus Vanar, Amendment 36 is a high note in a political process he sees as a succession of lows.

THADDEUS VANAR, AMENDMENT SUPPORTER: It will take clout away from Colorado, yes. But it will also cause a landslide. There will be other states that will do this, because the people don't like the Electoral College.

WOODRUFF: Others temper idealism with realism.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Winner take all is better. That makes the candidates come to us and talk, so I'm probably going to go that way.

WOODRUFF: Sounding a different chord in a campaign lacking in harmony.

Judy Woodruff, Boulder, Colorado.


COOPER: You don't see many public harpists anymore.

Maine and Nebraska currently use a system allowing for split electoral votes, but their formula is slightly different from the one being proposed in Colorado. Now, each congressional district in those two states carries one electoral vote.

Later on 360, we'll talk to Republican Governor Bill Owens of Colorado. We'll also bring on Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm, a Democrat. They're going head to head on the campaign. That's coming up on 360.

Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson says relax, the flu shot shortage is not a crisis, according to him. That tops our look at what's happening cross-country right now.

Thompson is urging seniors to stop standing in long lines for a flu shot. He says be patient. There are about 24 million doses of the vaccine that haven't been shipped out yet and will go where they are needed most. There's been lines for the vaccine after a British plant that supplies half of the U.S. supply was shut down due to contamination problems.

In L.A., Melissa Etheridge recovering. The rock singer has undergone two surgeries for breast cancer. A tumor and a few lymph nodes were removed. The next step, chemotherapy.

And on a far lighter note, also in L.A., actress Angelina Jolie is named sexiest woman alive in the November issue of "Esquire" magazine. Halle Berry came in a close second, followed by none other than Britney Spears.

That's a quick look at stories, important and not so, cross- country tonight.

360 next, "The O'Reilly Factor." Story doesn't go away. Fox firing back at the woman accusing the talk show host of sexual harassment. Are there tapes to prove her case? Fox says if there are, we want them.

Also tonight, the Scott Peterson trial, defense starts to present its side, and a judge refuses to throw out the case. Find out why ahead.

Plus, the debut of the 360 challenge. How much do you know about current events? We'll be just asking you three questions based on tonight's news. Be the first to answer all three correctly, and we'll send you a highly coveted ANTARCTIC 360 T-shirt. Stay tuned, the challenge is coming up. We'll be back live from the University of Colorado in a minute.

First, your picks, the most popular stories on right now.


COOPER: There have been a number of new filings in the legal battle between Bill O'Reilly and a female employee. Fox News now say they doesn't want to see the salacious statements said to have been spoken by Bill O'Reilly, it wants to hear them. Andrea Mackris, an associate producer, is suing O'Reilly for sexual harassment. She says he made sexually explicit phone calls to her. He says she is trying to extort money from him.

If she has tapes of those calls, Fox is demanding she turn them over.

Court TV anchor Lisa Bloom broke this latest development today. I spoke with her earlier.

Lisa, you've uncovered three sets of legal documents recently filed in the O'Reilly case. One of them is a show cause request filed by Fox's attorneys. What does that mean?

LISA BLOOM, COURT TV ANCHOR: Well, it, ordinarily, in the course of discovery, each side has to turn over evidence to the other within a couple of months from the filing of the case. Fox News is essentially saying, That's too long. If Andrea Mackris has tapes, we want them, and we want them now. And they convinced a judge to hear that matter this Friday, to decide whether or not, if there are any tapes, they should be turned over immediately.

COOPER: Why would they want the tapes?

BLOOM: Well, I think they want them for PR reasons, and they also want them for legal reasons. For PR reasons, those tapes would be very damaging to Bill O'Reilly if they in fact contain the words that are ascribed to him in the complaint, very explicitly talking about the sexual activity that he wants to engage with Andrea Mackris while masturbating while he's on the phone with her.

And I think for legal reasons, look, if she's got the tapes, it's good evidence in support of her claim. They need to know about it so they can figure out how to proceed. If she doesn't the tapes and it's all a bluff, that's certainly going to affect how they defend the case.

The grounds that they ask, that they use to support their claim that they need the tapes on an emergency basis is that they think Mackris might destroy the tapes.

COOPER: Well, it's interesting, because neither Andrea Mackris or her attorney have confirmed or denied that they actually even have tapes. But let's look at one of these alleged quotes that's subscribed to Bill Reilly. Quote, "Yeah, we, we'd check into the room, and we would order up some room service, and, uh, you'd definitely get two wines into you as quickly as I could," end quote.

I mean, language like that, with the "Uhs," it does suggest there is some sort of tape, some sort of transcription.

BLOOM: That's right, and the famous paragraph 78 of the complaint, where he describes in detail the sexual activity that he wants to engage in in the shower with Andrea Mackris, also certainly looks like a transcription.

And by the way, new information in these papers that we've just uncovered, the attorney for Fox says she has spoken with O'Reilly and, quote, "He believes that the quotations may be a partial transcription of a conversation he had with Mackris." Now, that sounds like an implied admission that at least some of the quotes in Mackris's complaint are true.

COOPER: I want to show you something that Bill O'Reilly has said on two different shows, two different programs, his own program and also that show "Live with Regis and Kelly," because it now plays into these new legal maneuvers. Let's play that tape.


BILL O'REILLY, HOST, "THE O'REILLY FACTOR": This is the single most evil thing I have ever experienced.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "REGIS AND KELLY," ABC) O'REILLY: It's every famous person in this country's a target. Now, if I have to go down, I'm willing to do it. But I got to make a stand.


COOPER: Andrea Mackris and her attorney, in an amendment to their complaint, are now calling this, those statements retaliation. How so?

BLOOM: Well, she is saying that O'Reilly is damaging her credibility publicly by saying that she's evil, that she's an extortionist.

COOPER: Now, Fox and O'Reilly have also amended their complaint, saying that basically she's hurting their business.

BLOOM: Those new claims essentially boil down to the claim that Andrea Mackris, by raising these sexual harassment claims, has interfered with Fox's relationships with its advertisers and has interfered with Bill O'Reilly's contractual relationship with Fox News.

COOPER: All right. We'll be watching. Thanks very much, Lisa.

BLOOM: All right, thank you.

COOPER: Lisa Bloom.

360 next, our special series, Facing Your Fears. We confront the things that scare you most. A close look at the phobias that can control your life.

Also tonight, two swing-state governors head to head, Colorado versus Michigan, Republican versus Democrat.

Plus, voters take politics 360 right here live from Colorado.

Also a little later, the president's bulge, and conspiracy theories. Just what was that thing on his back? We're taking that to "The Nth Degree."



JERRY SEINFELD: I saw a thing, actually, a study that said speaking in front of a crowd is considered the number one fear of the average person. I found that amazing. Number two was death. Death is number two? This means, to the average person, if you have to be at a funeral, you would rather be in the casket than doing the eulogy.


COOPER: That's Jerry Seinfeld there, poking fun at a fear that's all too common in the U.S. More than 5 million Americans are afraid of social situations, and as Seinfeld mentioned, many people fear public speaking more than death.

Tonight, as we launch a special series called Facing Your Fears, we're going to tackle social anxiety, first with the story of a young girl who's too afraid to speak to her peers.

CNN senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta reports.


SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They look like pictures of a painfully shy preschooler, but there was so much more to it than that. Four-year-old Natalie Cardulla would not utter a single word to her classmates the entire school year.

DEAN CARDULLA, NATALIE'S FATHER: She cried almost every day that we dropped her off there. And when we first started there, they said, Well, we see this a lot. They cry for a week or two weeks. And it was almost every single day, and it never got, really got better.

GUPTA: Over the years, her parents would notice a pattern. In public and around strangers, Natalie's expression would turn blank, her posture sagging, while at home she was precocious and engaging. After years of trying to figure it out, Natalie's parents were able to match her problem with a name, selective mutism.

DR. ELISA SHIPON-BLUM, SELECTIVE MUTISM ANXIETY CENTER: Children have difficulty getting words out and speaking in social situations where there is an expectation for speech. However, they can speak in settings where they are comfortable, such as home.

GUPTA: Modest estimates say one in 1,000 children are affected. And often it's genetic. They're often misdiagnosed as having autism or severe learning disabilities. And while the name implies it's just about speech, selective mutism can actually cause a child to completely shut down.

SHIPON-BLUM: It's not just about not speaking. But unfortunately, if you have an anxiety disorder and you're negatively reinforcing it by constantly mentioning it, you're actually making the anxiety worse.


GUPTA: Badgering her to speak is something Natalie's and other parents look back on with a tinge of regret.

TERESA CARDULLA: I cannot even imagine how hard that must have been on her, and what I did to raise that anxiety on her.

GUPTA: But after years of mistakes, Natalie's parents found her treatment, including medication and behavioral therapy to allay the anxiety.

When it's caught early and treated, selectively mute children can slowly integrate socially. For Natalie, it rendered those old pictures just a dark shadow of her new self. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.


COOPER: Well, Natalie's condition may be extreme, but her type of fear is all too common. Here to answer some questions about these phobias is Jonathan Berent, a psychotherapist and author of "Beyond Shyness: How to Conquer Social Anxieties."

Jonathan, thanks very much for being with us.

Obviously, selective mutism is a very extreme form of this. But what do you see in patients, though? I mean, what is the most common sort of social phobia? Speaking in public, I assume.

JONATHAN BERENT, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Oh, by far and away the most common anxiety is fear of public speaking. It can be terribly debilitating, can cause depression, can wreck careers.

For example, a woman comes into my office here in Great Neck, 40 years old, homemaker, mother of two, happens to be an ovarian cancer survivor. And she says to me, with very genuine words, "Jonathan, I would rather be back in chemotherapy than speak in front of a group."

Another gentleman who...

COOPER: What is it -- what, what, what, I mean, what is it, what is that fear? I mean, are they afraid they're going to make a mistake or look stupid? What? What?

BERENT: The fear is toxic levels of embarrassment and shame. And for the person who does not understand this, it's very hard to really contemplate. But this emotion and the repressed anger that goes along with it causes panic attacks. It causes depression. And these symptoms open the door to very inappropriate use of pharmaceuticals. Hence, the ads that we see on TV for Zoloft and Paxil. There's so much clinically criminal behavior going on. There is a right and wrong way to use this type of medicine.

COOPER: So how do you treat your patients?

BERENT: Well, what we do is, we have a behavioral approach along with helping the person emotionally. If we're going to cure or resolve the problem, we have to help the person resolve the underlying conflict of shame, embarrassment, and humiliation.

For example, one of my patients, a very gifted salesman, who had public speaking anxiety, who is all better, said, "The way that I got better was to learn how to, quote, 'compartmentalize my shame.'"

COOPER: Interesting. A lot of people suffering from this. The numbers are just extraordinary. Jonathan Berent, we appreciate you coming in to talk about it. Thank you very much.

BERENT: Thank you. COOPER: Our special series Facing Your Fears continues tomorrow. We're going to look at the fear of germs, when washing our hands just isn't enough. We'll meet a man who was so afraid, he couldn't leave his own bed.

On Wednesday, we'll tackle the fear of leaving home, Thursday the fear of flying, and on Friday, we'll take on the fear of cockroaches, spiders, and other creepy crawlies. Facing Your Fears, all this week on 360.

And coming up next, tonight Scott Peterson fights for his life. The defense begins its case in this high-profile murder trial. Do they have reasonable doubt?

Plus, live from the University of Colorado, the governors of two key swing states join us live, and will be taking the tough questions from you the voters.

360, covering all the angles. Stay with us.


COOPER: Well, this just in to CNN. A Sinclair employee who criticized his company's decision to broadcast controversial documentary on John Kerry was apparently fired for remarks he made to newspapers.

An executive producer at WBAL-TV in Baltimore says Sinclair's D.C. bureau chief, Jon Lieberman, was let go for his comments. Lieberman says Sinclair's decision to make its 62 TV stations air the Kerry program amounts to, quote, "biased political propaganda with clear intentions to sway this election," end quote.

The broadcasting company's plan has drawn formal protests from Democrats for both the program's content and its timing so soon before the election. Lieberman will be a guest tonight on "PAULA ZAHN NOW," prime time politics at 8:00.

So jurors in the Scott Peterson murder trial today marked the beginning of the end. After months of listening to the prosecution tell its side of the story, they are finally hearing from the defense.

This morning, Mark Geragos called his first witness to the stand, and in doing so, wasted no time in trying to punch holes in the state's case against the accused killer.

CNN's Ted Rowlands has the latest from the courtroom.


TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Scott Peterson's defense case started with an attack on concrete evidence. At issue is whether or not Peterson used a missing bag of concrete to repair his driveway, or to weigh down his wife's body.

A defense expert testified that concrete samples from Peterson's driveway matched a homemade anchor and cement debris from his warehouse. The testimony directly refutes that of a prosecution expert who concluded there was no match.

Prosecutors are trying to prove that Peterson used cement anchors to weigh down his wife's body when he threw her into the San Francisco Bay. Prosecutors base the claim on five cement dust rings found at Peterson's warehouse and a missing bag of cement that he told his brother-in-law he used on his driveway, which the defense expert supported.

CHUCK SMITH, LEGAL ANALYST: He gave scientific support to the defense theory, which arguably could raise a significant reasonable doubt as to this particular piece of circumstantial evidence which has become an important piece of circumstantial evidence in this case.

ROWLANDS: While a defense source tells CNN that Scott Peterson is not expected to take the stand, he is being prepped. Michael Cardoza, a San Francisco defense attorney says he's met with Peterson twice in the last week helping the defense see how Peterson might react under tough questioning.

MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE CONSULTANT: I gave them no advice at all. When I was through, I left. The decision to put him on the stand will be the defense's.


ROWLANDS: Today the defense put on a financial expert that testified that Scott Peterson had absolutely no financial motive to kill his wife and child. The defense estimates that they'll go between four and six court days for their case, depending on how much cross-examination there will be. That financial expert should be on the stand tomorrow when court resumes.

COOPER: Ted Rowlands, thanks very much tonight.

Covering the Peterson case for us on Justice Served, 360 legal analyst, Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom and from Miami defense attorney Jayne Weintraub. Good to see both of you. Kimberly, let me start off with you. What do you make of the fact that Scott Peterson went through this mock cross-examination on a mock stand?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE NEWSOM, 360 LEGAL ANALYST: It's really interesting because there's been so much speculation as to whether or not Scott Peterson would take the stand. But common sense tells us, is he crazy? He's already been proved beyond any doubt, beyond a shadow of a doubt to be someone who is a pathological liar in the eyes of the jurors.

So it begs the question is this just another kind of legal maneuvering and a defense spin to try and get people to think that Scott Peterson's going to take the stand? But if Michael Cardoza said that he prepped him and met with him on several occasions, then he did. The further question is whether or not this then makes him fall underneath the gag order and is he part of the defense team now? COOPER: Jayne could it also be just that Scott Peterson himself wanted to take the stand and this was a way of dissuading him from doing that?

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Anderson, everybody loses sight of the fact this is a real death penalty case and that the decision is not up to Mark Geragos. Believe me, if it was up to him he would have said we have nothing to say on the witness stand. Because remember they've already heard the best of Scott as well the worst, the best of his sincere honest denials when he was talking to Amber. Amber, you know I'm not that kind of guy, I could never do that. What could be better? It wasn't cross-examined on the witness stand.

So he's got the best he can get and there's nothing to gain by putting him on the witness stand. But it's Scott's decision. Scott is facing the death penalty as a potential consequence. So of course Scott may be saying, I want to. And this is Mark Geragos' way of showing him, Scott, this isn't such a good move, it's your move to make but here's what we'll do and bring in a good lawyer. It's a very common tool we use.

GUILFOYLE NEWSOM: And Anderson, then Scott could always kind of represent later that maybe my attorney didn't want me to, even though it is his decision. It could look like, look, he was ready to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth because he is a man who didn't kill his wife and he has nothing to hide and he wants to get up and face those 12 jurors and look them in the eye and tell them, you may not like me, I may have had affairs but I didn't kill my wife.

WEINTRAUB: Obviously, he'll have the opportunity if, God forbid, this goes to a death penalty phase. But don't forget also what was risky about this move is that it risks a waiver. And by Michael Cardoza going on all these television shows all day today talking about the fact that he went in there, if he's not part of the defense team, I think there's a potential waiver of the privilege -- of the work product privilege here that the prosecutors are talking about and we're hearing rumblings about subpoenas going to Michael Cardoza. Of course I think they should worry about their own case instead of worrying about the defense lawyers but that's for another day's discussion I'm sure.

COOPER: Very briefly from both of you, I want to hear very quickly, Jayne -- actually we'll start off with Kimberly. Kimberly, what do you think Mark Geragos has to do, is going to try to do in his defense? What's the most important thing for him?

GUILFOYLE NEWSOM: Great job today providing scientific evidence about the cement, causing reasonable doubt and backing up Scott's story that he used cement in the driveway. Good point there. The next thing he has to do is get a forensic expert, a pathologist on the stand to cast doubt about when that baby was born. If he can push it back past December 24 then Scott Peterson could walk.

WEINTRAUB: And then he should call somebody like the assistant district attorney who was walking the dog, just like hers and he should rest his case. Short, punch it out and beat the speculation with evidence like he did today.

COOPER: Jayne Weintraub, Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom, thanks very much.

360 next. Battleground state generals. Colorado Governor Bill Owens and Michigan Governor Granholm will join me. Find out why their states are still up for grabs.

Also tonight, the tough questions. These political experts behind me or actually in front of me will get quizzed by our audience behind me. First today's 360 challenge. Question number one, CNN's poll of polls shows Bush is beating Kerry by how many points? Two, what's the amendment to end Colorado's winner take all system of electoral votes? We're looking for the number. Three, who is the sexiest woman alive according to "Esquire" magazine? We're looking for her last name. We'll give you a hint. It means pretty in French. Log on to Click on the AC 360 challenge link. Be the first to answer all three questions correctly and win a 360 T-Shirt. The answers just ahead.


COOPER: We're back live in Colorado. With the election clock ticking, some new national polls suggest that President Bush has regained the slight lead he had going into the debates. Once again, the latest CNN poll of polls where we average recent national surveys. Among likely voters President Bush has a five-point edge over Senator Kerry but it's still very close. A lot riding on key swing states. We want to bring on the governors of two of them. Now from Glenwood Springs, Colorado, Governor Bill Owens, a Republican. And from Ann Arbor, Michigan, Governor Jennifer Granholm, a Democrat. Welcome both of you to 360. Thanks for joining us.


COOPER: Governor Owens, since -- since we're in your state, Governor Owens, I want to start with you. Lets talk about amendment 36.

You've been very vocally opposed to it, why?

GOV. BILL OWENS (R), COLORADO: It's a proposal here in Colorado that would split Colorado's electoral votes. It's being Backed by a gentleman who is also maxed out to the Kerry campaign and would basically make Colorado a non-entity when it came to presidential elections in the future. Virtually every election, instead of being nine electoral votes would be decided on a 5 to 4 basis, which means when it comes to federal water policy, base closings, highways, we would essentially have unilaterally disarmed. It's bad for Colorado this year but of more importance it's bad for Colorado in years to come.

COOPER: Are you opposed to it if it is only in Colorado? If this went nationwide, would that be something you would consider? OWENS: Anderson, I would be much less opposed to it if it was something done nationally where California might be a 33-27 state and Colorado might be 5-4. What would be bad for Colorado would be to do this essentially by ourself, unilaterally disarming down to one electoral vote, by far the least in the country, which would hurt us in years to come on many federal issues that would be vital to Colorado.

Governor Graham, what do you think of this. I mean, right now, the polls are show it probably won't pass here in Colorado, at least right now, that's what the polls say.

Do you support amendment 36?

GRANHOLM: Well, I don't know the Colorado situation. But I do know that the Electoral College is certainly something that many people have viewed as an anachronism. It's something perhaps we should perhaps look at doing away with altogether. Why not -- elect somebody based on the popular vote. I think we'd have a different president today if we had done that.

COOPER: Lets talk about -- lets talk wider about this race now. Governor Granholm, Michigan has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country right now.

Why hasn't Senator Kerry been able to pull away in Michigan, as some have predicted that he would?

Granholm: In fact, he has pulled away in so far as you can in this close election he's about five or six points up in this state. And I think the reason is because of jobs. He has a plan to make sure that the manufacturers in our state and in other states are supported, that we bring jobs back home, that we don't support and encourage outsourcing of jobs, that we lower health care crosses for job providers and for middle class citizens. And for us we've lost almost 300,000 jobs under President Bush. And for every one of those jobs there's a real human story behind it. That resonates with people.

COOPER: Governor Owens, a new poll out today in Colorado saying President Bush is leading in this state, particularly doing well among women, a reversal of some previous polls.

Why do you think that is?

OWENS: Well, I think -- I think the reason why is because women are perhaps more concerned than ever before about security. When they look to which of these candidates can best protect their families, which of these candidates can best stand up to the forces of international terrorism, I think here in Colorado -- and we're starting to see this nationally, more and more we're starting to see women supporting President Bush. It is a question of who do you trust most to protect your family? And I think that as we get closer to November 2nd we're going to see a lot of people come home to the concept that you can trust George Bush to protect your family better than you can trust John Kerry.

COOPER: Governor Granholm, there is a woman in the audience right here, that says when women vote, Democrats win.

Do you agree with what Governor Owens said?

GRANHOLM: No, I think women will tip this election for John Kerry. They see what happened in Iraq and they see the mess there. They see that this president rushed us into war without a plan to preserve the peace. Everyday they look on the TV and they see lives lost and money wasted when they're concerned about making sure that we invest in health care and public education and in our infrastructure here. They believe that the president -- many women believe that the president has made the world less safe rather than more safe. So, I think women certainly in Michigan feel very strongly it's time for a change.

COOPER: Two very different perspectives. Governor Granholm, Governor Owens, I appreciate you joining us. Thank you very much.

GRANHOLM: You bet, thank you.

OWENS: Good to be with you.

COOPER: Today's "Buzz" is this, have you decided for whom you are voting for president, yes or no. Log on to, cast your vote, results at the end of the program.

And 360 next, turning the mic over to the crowd. They've got some questions and our political experts going to answer.

Also tonight, catch phrases for Bush and Kerry, they never get old, they just recycled. You'll see what I mean ahead in "Raw Politics."

And a little later the mystery of the bulge, what was that under the president's jacket. A look at some of the possibilities in "The Nth Degree."


COOPER: Welcome back here live, (UNINTELLIGIBLE). If you've been playing close attentions to this year's presidential elections, and polls suggest most of you have, you may have noticed a change in recent weeks.

Each campaign apparently thrown out the old catches phrases and replaced them with even older ones. It's a strategy that seems all to familiar in "Raw Politics." Take a look.


COOPER (voice-over): On the campaign trail President Bush has recently toned down this line of attack.

BUSH: The senator from Massachusetts has now flip-flopped his way to a dangerous position.

COOPER: Instead, he now often pulls out the "L" word. BUSH: Only a liberal senator from Massachusetts.

COOPER: The word fills his stump a speeches.

BUSH: Liberalism. It's called liberalism. Most liberal member of the United States Senate.

COOPER: Even the theme of a new ad the Bush camp released today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Kerry and his liberal allies, are they a risk we can afford to take today?

COOPER: John Kerry, is changing slogans too. Early on, he often said this.

KERRY: Help is on the way.

COOPER: Well, that slogan is now on its way out. It's been replaced by a more biting catch phrase.

KERRY: President is out of touch.

COOPER: Being out of touch is the theme of a recent ad the Kerry camp released in Ohio.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over 100,000 Ohioans have lost their health insurance.

COOPER: Why the changes? Well, two weeks before the election analysts say the two camps want to play it safe.

SCHNEIDER: Candidates believe if it worked before, it will probably work again, especially if they can't think of anything better to do.

COOPER: The "l" word strategy seems to be a Bush family tradition used in 1988 by President Bush H. Bush to paint Massachusetts Governor Michael Dukakis as a tax and spend Democrat.

GEORGE H.W. BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Governor Dukakis is a standard old '60s liberal.

COOPER: And it worked. The out of touch strategy was used in 1992 by then Governor Bill Clinton to paint the first President Bush as disconnected from domestic concerns.

BILL CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This administration is out of touch with us.

COOPER: And that strategy worked. Going back to the basics by going back to the past, that is "Raw Politics."


COOPER: Behind all the catchphrases, of course, are the issues that many people, like the folks here in beautiful Colorado still have a lot of questions they want answered. Tonight we'll let this audience ask them. Here to do the answering are CNN political analyst Carlos Watson and "Rocky Mountain News" political reporter, Jim Tankersley. Gentlemen, appreciate you submitting yourself to the mob.

Let me ask -- your name and your question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Dana Quary (ph). And my question is, aside from Colorado this year, how many states do you expect won't have their election results available or final on election night?

COOPER: Is it going to be a long, drawn-out election night?

CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think it will be. I think if you remember, in 2000, believe it or not, there were six states whose votes were decided by 1 percent. In a state like Iowa, when they counted up all the votes, they thought President Bush had won it. Then they added in the absentee ballots, and Gore ultimately won it.

So I wouldn't be surprised to see states like New Mexico, wouldn't be surprised to see Nevada, as well as maybe a Florida still go on past midnight.

JIM TANKERSLEY, ROCKY MOUNTAIN NEWS: And don't be surprised if Colorado goes pretty late this year. We've got a lot of issues around vote fraud that's hanging out there. So you could see litigation. You might not know what Colorado has until days or weeks after the election.

WATSON: Actually, Jim brings up a really excellent point, and I'll end on that, which is that even though we may hear the results, they still may be fought out in court for a while longer. Whether this chad counts, whether that vote counts, whether this electronic balloting was done fairly.

COOPER: A lot of lawyers are going to be watching this, as well as a lot of us.

Your name and your question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, my name is Scott Moore (ph). My question is why is there more of a focus on when Bush speaks his scowls and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of speaking than there is on Kerry's substance?

WATSON: Oh, I think I know who you're voting for.

COOPER: Are you a Bush supporter or a Kerry supporter?


WATSON: Well, you know what's really interesting, when you look at the voter polls and you ask voters what matters more, personal qualities or the issues, guess which one voters say? Forty-six percent in one of the most recent poll said personal qualities; only 39 percent said issues. So obviously people care about both, but when Al Gore grimaced or sighed in 2000, people noticed that, and so I wouldn't be surprised to see those things continue to matter.

COOPER: Another question. Your name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, C.J. Richardson (ph).

COOPER: And your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is, what is your opinion on Amendment 36 and the Electoral College in general?

TANKERSLEY: Well, I think Amendment 36 has gotten a lot of attention around here. I don't think it's going to pass. I think most polls show it down now. It's a really interesting idea, but there are great arguments for and against it. The best one...

COOPER: Jim, quickly, if you could, describe what Amendment 36 is for the audience.

TANKERSLEY: Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, it's an amendment that would change the way Colorado divvies up its Electoral College votes. No more winner take all; now it's proportional with the popular vote if it passes. The idea being it would be more fair -- if you vote for John Kerry, say, and he loses by one vote, you don't have any representation right now in the Electoral College. It would change it.

On the other hand, it could diminish Colorado's standing in the country in terms of how much importance it plays in the election.

WATSON: I'll say this, even if it fails here in Colorado, I guarantee you you'll see it on other ballots going forward. I think that what happened in 2000 and Colorado's idea is going to spark the idea in other places.

COOPER: OK, I want to try to get through this quickly. Your name and your question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Louise Minks (ph). My question is, why do you think the races between -- the U.S. Senate and the presidential races are so close here in Colorado?


TANKERSLEY: Well, we've got a really divided electorate here, and we've got a lot of independent voters. Independent voters, you never know which way they're going to go. Neither party has a majority in Colorado, and it's those voters who are splitting right down the middle now for those two candidates, and that's why it's close.

WATSON: Although you know, it's interesting, in some of the hottest presidential battleground races, the Senate races aren't close at all. Ohio and Pennsylvania. So this is a rarity that both races are very close.

COOPER: Very quickly, last question. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Zack Taylor (ph). What is your take on Jon Stewart's recent criticism of the media, accusing them of spinning rather than addressing the issues? And do you have any ideas on how to change it?

WATSON: Well, Jon Stewart was on our air kind of going after one of our own guys, Tucker Carlson, saying that you shouldn't make light of serious issues. And I, without being too much of a CNN cheerleader, I think this year, whether it's been adding new reporters or going out on the road or even being here, I think we've tried to get out and talk about issues in a serious way.

Having said that, every now and then you've got to laugh and smile, right? I mean, and people are more enthusiastic about it. So Jon Stewart made his criticism, but I think we've done more here, not only at CNN, but I think you'll see all the cable networks are devoting more resources to covering this election.

COOPER: We're going to have to leave it there. I know there are a lot more questions. I'm sorry we didn't have time to get to you. We'll try to do it maybe a little bit later on. Carlos Watson, Jim Tankersley, thanks very much. Appreciate it.

360 next, the mysterious bulge. What was in the president's jacket during the debate? What do you guys think? We'll take some possibilities to "The Nth Degree."

Also tomorrow, facing your fears. Germ phobia, part of our special series. And today's "Buzz," have you decided for whom you're voting for president? Yes or no? Log on to Vote now. Results when we come back. Plus, the answers to today's 360 challenge. Answer the questions right and find out if you're a potential winner. We'll be right back.


COOPER: Time now for the answers to today's 360 challenge. CNN's poll of polls show Bush is beating Kerry among likely voters by how many points? The answer, 5. What's the amendment to end Colorado's winner take all system of electoral votes? The answer, Amendment 36. And who is "Esquire" magazine's sexiest woman alive? Here is a hunt, her last name means "pretty" in French. The answer, Angelina Jolie. The first person to answer all three questions correctly will be sent a 360 T-shirt. I haven't seen them myself, so I don't know how good they are, but I hope they're good.

Tune in tomorrow to find out if you are the one. We'll also have another 360 challenge tomorrow.

Now, for "The Buzz." Earlier we asked you, have you decided for whom you are voting for president? More than 37,000 of you voted. Have you all decided?


COOPER: Ninety-six percent said yes; 4 percent of you voted no. There's only I think one person in this audience. Not a scientific poll, but it is your "Buzz."

And finally tonight, taking mysterious shapes to "The Nth Degree."

Now the debates are over, but the snarky talk goes on about that rectangular shape people claim to have seen under the president's suit jacket between his shoulder blades. You know what I'm talking about. Some say it was an optical illusion, some that it was just bad tailoring, some that it was a transmitter through which Mr. Bush was being coached.

We here at 360 have consulted a number of leading forensic haberdashers and searched for possible explanations. And here, we pass them on to you.

Could be the shape was an extra large "made in the USA" label, a really thick tattoo -- that's another option -- a road race number the president forgot to take off -- he does like to run after all -- or the results of a freak starch accident. That can happen. It can be painful. Or a heating pad, or an out-of-control birthmark. All are options.

Now, it happens that I have considerable experience in the area of hearing voices through an earpiece and a wireless transmitter -- in fact, I'm hearing a few right now -- and I can tell you for a -- what's that? Oh, no, come on, get -- but -- hey -- all right. All right.

I'm Anderson Cooper. Thanks very much for watching. Appreciate you (UNINTELLIGIBLE).



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