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American Morning

Refusing Orders?; 'Paging Dr. Gupta'

Aired October 18, 2004 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. It is just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. We are here in Chicago. The election, of course, two weeks away. And we are talking politics with the locals. This morning, we're calling it deep dish politics, in honor of Chicago of course. We're taking a look at the president's movement in the polls and a flurry of endorsements. We're going to find out how the Chicago media are covering the campaign.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Also in a moment here, the military's investigation into why an Army platoon in Iraq refused to go on this refueling mission. Is there a problem in protecting the troops? Barbara Starr is looking into that. We'll get to Barbara's report in a moment.

And I would be remiss not to see every 30 minutes, welcome back.

O'BRIEN: You could say it as often as you like; it's nice to be here.

HEMMER: Welcome back. It's great to have you back.

O'BRIEN: Thank you.

HEMMER: Want to get to Heidi Collins with us again here in Chicago.

Good morning to you.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you, guys.

HEMMER: Looking at the other news this hours.

COLLINS: Yes, that's right. In fact, now in the news today, President Bush is set to approve a $33 billion measure on homeland security. The president is expected to sign the bill in about an hour at the Oval Office. He'll then head to New Jersey where he'll give a major policy speech on terrorism. Senator John Kerry campaigning in Florida today. In about an hour, he's expected to meet with early voters in West Palm Beach.

There's word this morning some suspected terrorists are back at work. According to the Associated Press, at least seven prisoners once held in U.S. custody at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba have returned to terrorism-related activities. The detainees are reportedly part of a group released from the U.S. Naval base after U.S. officials determined they did not pose a threat. And North Korea's second highest leader, Kim Jong Nam, has arrived in Beijing. He's expected to focus on jumpstarting nuclear crisis talks just days before U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell visits Japan, China and South Korea next weekend. It's also part of an effort to restart six nation talks about North Korea's nuclear weapons program. That is the news this morning.

HEMMER: I want to see the home run that went down at 1:30 in the morning last night.

COLLINS: Do we have it? We've got to have it.

HEMMER: I don't know if we have it cued up now. But in a moment here, Red Sox beat the Yankees.

COLLINS: They did, amazing.

HEMMER: They're trying to keep hope alive, are they not?

COLLINS: They've just got to win all of the rest of them now.

HEMMER: Thank you, Heidi.

Back to this story now with the U.S. Army saying the supply unit's refusal to carry out its mission is an isolated incident, but it may point to a bigger problem for U.S. troops in Iraq. And for that, Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon.

Barbara, good morning there.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill.

Well, indeed, today the investigation is continuing into an episode last week when 18 Army soldiers in Iraq refused to drive their fuel convoys, saying the mission was simply too dangerous.

Now, in a very unusual Sunday press conference in Baghdad, and keep in mind, we haven't had any press conferences by the military out of Baghdad in months, but yesterday, the commanding general of the unit said he has ordered all equipment in that unit reinspected. He is having some retraining done. He said there were some valid concerns by the soldiers, but they expressed them inappropriately, and he is going a step further.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIG. GEN. JAMES E. CHAMBERS, 13TH CORPS SUPPORT COMMAND: I have directed that the 343rd conduct a maintenance and safety stand-down during which time vehicles will be thoroughly inspected, and the unit will retrain and certify for their mission. We will also assess armor protection for each of their vehicles, and make an assessment to provide additional steel plating if it'S required.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Now, General Chambers says all convoys do get armed escorts, but this is raising continuing questions about whether there are indeed enough armored vehicles in Iraq, just one indicator. And keep in mind the numbers constantly change because more and more armed vehicles are coming into the country, but those Humvees, those jeep- type vehicles that we're so familiar seeing, the Army is reporting that it's still something like 8,000 vehicles short of what it its requirement is for those types of armored vehicles in Iraq.

Now, as far as this incident goes, Bill, the Army is, in fact, still emphasizing, it's an isolated incident, but it is something they are concerned about. They have not seen a breakdown in unit discipline before, in at least not in Iraq, and it's something they are watching very closely -- Bill.

HEMMER: And getting a lot of attention, too.

Barbara Starr from the Pentagon. Barbara, thanks -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Thanks.

Here in Chicago, you know two things stir people's passions, sports and politics. And since the Cubs didn't make it, we're not going to talk about sports this morning, but we will talk politics. In fact, we are calling it deep dish politics in honor of our weeklong visit here this morning.

Our guest, Jim Warren, he's the deputy managing editor of "The Chicago Tribune."

Good morning. Nice to see you.

JIM WARREN, "CHICAGO TRIBUNE": Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Debra Pickett is from the "Chicago-Sun Times."

Nice to have you. Thanks for being with us.

DEBRA PICKETT, "CHICAGO-SUN TIMES": Thank you.

And Teri O'Brien, WLS Radio talk show host with us this morning.

I always say, you can never have too many O'Briens on the show.

TERI O'BRIEN, WLS RADIO: That's what I say as well.

O'BRIEN: Let's get right into it. We're talking about the Bush bounce this morning.

Debra, I'm going to ask you to start. Among the national polls, he's up 8 points in some, two points in others. The average is somewhere over 3 points. Do you think this is -- really is a bump. And what do you make of it?

PICKETT: You know, I don't make much of it at this point, Soledad. I think, you know, as everybody's been saying, there's one poll that counts. It's November 2nd. What we learned in the 2000 election was that it's really about the Electoral College; it's about those six swing states that are still too close to call. So you know, everybody knows it's going to be a really tight election, and I'm not sure the polls really make much of a difference at this point.

O'BRIEN: Jim, what do you think is the reason for the bounce, even if you don't think the bounce is going to mean anything over the next 15 days?

WARREN: First, can I thank you and CNN for placing that full- page color ad in the "Tribune" this morning. We're appreciative of the revenue.

O'BRIEN: I was happy to do it.

WARREN: We'll take the revenue anyway we can.

Well, I think you clearly saw Kerry re-establishing himself as a real viable, credible candidate in the debates. As for what happened in the week or so after, I think perhaps Bush is just a little bit more aggressive campaigner.

But nevertheless, you look at most of the polls, they're in the statistical margin of error. And I think more important, sort of as Debra suggests, is looking at individual states, and if you look at some of the so-called tracking polls in some of the key battleground states, in fact, Bush, though, ahead nationally, in those states is a little bit behind. So you've got to be a little more nervous about that if you are the president.

O'BRIEN: Terry, your colleagues here don't seem to be so wowed by the polls. We've been talking about this bounce. Where do you stand?

T. O'BRIEN: I think they're right about that. I think that we have to be skeptical of these polls, because we don't really know to what extent they're going to prove true. On Election Day, that's the poll that counts.

However, I think that the Bush bounce is probably real, and the Kerry sink is probably real, from what I'm hearing from my listeners, just that the polls...

O'BRIEN: For what reason? What are your listeners saying that triggered...

T. O'BRIEN: Well, the thing is that, they don't find Kerry convincing when he goes out and says, I'm going to hunt down and kill terrorists. It sounds like something he is being told to say, versus the thing he said in "The New York Times" last Sunday, a week ago, about wanting to go back to where terrorism was a nuisance, like gambling and prostitution. It's exhausting to keep saying something you don't really believe, and that's what they're seeing in Senator Kerry, just opportunism. He's a poser, basically.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit about the newspaper endorsements. Jim, in fact, your newspaper "The Chicago Trib," endorsed Bush for president, and I'm wondering how much it makes an impact? I mean, to what degree does it really matter? Or is it the same as the polls. It doesn't really -- what really matters is in two weeks?

WARREN: First of all, rest assured that a lot of folks in Chicago did not wake up yesterday stunned with surprise. In our 157 years of operation, I believe we have endorsed the Democrat once, and that was another newspaper publisher in New York, who then went to the Republican Party two weeks later. So for the last century, we do Republicans all the time.

I think once upon a time, certainly before cable, before talk radio, I think newspaper endorsements, the local papers support of a candidate, presidential candidate, had a lot more weight than it does now. And it can still have a little bit of weight if it goes against type. "The Chicago Tribune" endorsing a Republican no big surprise. "New York Times" supporting a Democrat, as it did yesterday, with Kerry. If it had been the other way, if we had gone against type, then I think you might have a little bit more impact.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit about the Senate race before we sun out of time here. It's been an interesting race. Of course, it looks like Obama is running away with it. But again, we'll know in two weeks. We hate to make predictions ahead of time.

PICKETT: You can probably make that prediction.

O'BRIEN: Pretty safe.

First, what happened to the Republican Party here in Illinois? it seems like they kind of gave up on Jim Ryan and had sort of -- am I reading it wrong, or did they just sort of disengage?

PICKETT: No, I think it's broader than that, too. I think the Republican Party, really on a national basis, has decided not to run or support the kind of Republicans who could win here in Illinois. They are not supporting moderate Republicans anymore.

T. O'BRIEN: No, we have no Republican Party in Illinois. We have a party that's led by a political cross dresser who is not a Republican and -- I mean, in my own congressional district she, 10 years ago, supported the Democrat against a Republican who could win. So we have no Republican Party in Illinois. It's a joke.

O'BRIEN: We are going to be speaking to the two Senate candidates here tomorrow on AMERICAN MORNING.

Jim, and Debra and Teri, thanks for being with us this morning. It's nice to have you -- Bill.

HEMMER All right, Soledad, as promised a few moments ago, it took until 1:22 a.m. Eastern Time this morning, 12:22 here in Chicago, finally David Ortiz smacked a two-run home run in the bottom of the 12th to keep hope alive in Boston, 6-4 win over the Yankees late last night, early into the morning hours, extending that ALCS to a fifth game. 5:00 they'll play this afternoon in Boston. Game five there, 3-1, though, the Yanks on top. 2-2 in the other divisional playoff series. You've got Houston and St. Louis now locked up at two games apiece after Houston came back yesterday.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Tomorrow, our visit to Chicago is going to take us to Loyola University, which is along Chicago's magnificent mile. And our guest tomorrow as well is going to be U.S. Senate candidates Barack Obama, Alan Keyes as well. Also we'll been talking with bestselling author Scott Thoreau (ph), and film critic Roger Ebert will be joining us as well. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

We're back in just a moment. Stay with us, everybody.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Welcome back, everyone.

We are live in Chicago this morning. We're Also paging the good doctor at this hour, Sanjay Gupta, about the nation's flu shot shortage. Several states taking emergency measures to ensure that the existing vaccine gets to those who need it the most.

Sanjay's back in the CNN Center in Atlanta.

Good morning, Sanjay.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.

You guys look great out there, by the way, in Chicago.

HEMMER: Thank you. Thank you.

GUPTA: Hey, listen, now really heating up, both presidential candidates weighing in on the topic. The second question of the debate last week is, well, about the flu shot, lots of people waiting in long lines. A woman in San Francisco actually died over the weekend waiting in line for the flu shot. She died of exhaustion, two others collapsing in line, really becoming a huge problem, and the latest news out of Chairon (ph), the latest news out of England, really that none of those 40-plus million flu vaccination shots will be available. That's been confirmed now, not We're not going to see those shots, talking about the long lines, also talking about some specific states now issuing restrictive orders, focusing on two things. If people give the flu shot to those that don't qualify, they could risk a fine, and also people who gouge, charge too much, could also risk a fine.

First of all, who are the high risk people? We've been talking about this for some time, worth pointing out again, kids between the ages of six and 23 months, all pregnant women, people with a chronic disease, and everyone over the age of 65.

And, again, some of the states now, we've been talking about the national recommendations now, states issuing their own restrictive orders, several states around the country. You can take a look there.

Let me point out a couple of things. In Michigan, Massachusetts, Oregon, and D.C., you can risk a fine up to a thousand dollars. It could also be a misdemeanor charge. In Wisconsin, you can face up to 30 days in prison if you break any of those two rules.

But the message is, if you're healthy, get out of line. That's what everyone has been saying. And also the flu mist, you and I have talked about this, Bill, that's the nasal spray. That is good for healthy people. That is an option as well to consider -- Bill.

HEMMER: Two quick questions here. How many Americans on that list of high risk?

GUPTA: They say about 90 million Americans, and over past years, Bill, we know that about half of those people typically get the flu shot. So if you do that math there should actually be enough based on previous years use -- Bill.

HEMMER: All right. Here was the problem last year. We could not determine what strain of the flu virus was hitting the U.S. Do we know this year better that answer?

GUPTA: There is something called an antigen shift, which sometimes happens, meaning that the strain actually changes sort of midway. All indicators at this point indicate that that has not happened. The flu shot should work for this year's flu -- Bill.

HEMMER: Is it possible the amount of attention the shortage is getting, driving more people to stand in line?

GUPTA: Absolutely. A very interesting sort of social consequence. You see this is something that is easily not available, not easily available, suddenly becomes in more demand, people standing in lines that maybe otherwise would not have. The recommendations, though, stay the same -- Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Sanjay, thanks for that. We'll keep in touch with you on this story.

Sanjay Gupta, with our "House Call" at the CNN Center -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Well, it's time to get a preview of the markets this morning. And we're getting word of Ford getting Sirius about radio. Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business," also in Chicago with us.

Hey, Andy, good morning again.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning. And, again, nice to see you back, Soledad.

We're going to be following the price of oil I'm sure for many days to come. It is still hovering around $55. That is making futures weak this morning. An update on that later in the morning. Let's talk about Sirius radio, though. And here you go with the -- what happened last week. We definitely have some weakness there.

As far as satellite radio, you know, you've got a couple big business rivalries that jump to mind, of course, like Hertz, Aviz; Coke, Pepsi, but is satellite radio the next big rivalry. We're talking Sirius Radio versus XM Radio. And some news this morning that Sirius Radio, which just signed Howard Stern, which I'm sure you've probably heard about, is now going to be benefiting because Ford is going to be rolling out Sirius Radio in its cars much more than it has in the past. They're going to be installing it in the factory. Before it had been an aftermarket product, and they're also going to be installing it in more models. And Sirius is still lagging behind XM. They've got 600,000 subscribers, versus XM that's got 2.5 million, hoping that the shock jock can help close that gap.

Soledad, also, we are talking a couple days ago about...

O'BRIEN: Well, I think we have a little technical difficulty with Andy. Let's see if we can fix that and get back to him in a little bit.

Still to come this morning, something we really have not talked about yet, Chicago's checkered past, namely it's mob history. Jack is going to talk to a good cop, gone bad cop, gone good cop again, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: And welcome back, everybody. The morning commute is now under way.

Let's take you back over the Carton's (ph) restaurant, which where we find Jack and Andy this morning.

Good morning to you, guys.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Soledad.

Chicago and the Mob, ever since Al Capone ruled the city back during Prohibition, the words have been almost synonymous. Capone was born in Brooklyn, New York, came to Chicago in 1919. He inherited an organization called "The Outfit," and that was the beginning of the Capone legend. Corrupt politicians and police officers helped fuel Capone's power. Everybody had a price. They could all be bought.

Eventually, Capone went to prison, and in the late '70s and early '80s, mob activity was controlled out of the infamous First Ward in Chicago.

My guest this morning led three different lives. A former Chicago cop, he went haywire as a young lawyer, began working for the Mob, fixing cases, bribing judges. In 1986, he turned on the wiseguys, became an informant for the government, wearing a wire and gathering evidence that resulted in nine indictments. He broke the back of one of the strongest organized crime organizations in the country. Of course, when word got out he was doing this, the mob put out a million-dollar price on his head.

His book is called "When Corruption Was King."

We're delighted to welcome Bob Cooley to AMERICAN MORNING. So what caused you go to haywire. You had it all going your.

Young lawyer, prosperous, making lots of money, doing it the right way. Why did you turn crooked?

ROBERT COOLEY, AUTHOR, "WHEN CORRUPTION WAS KING": There was a number of things that happened over in my life, first as a policeman, and then later as an attorney. I started off practicing law, loved it, enjoyed it, started representing some people initially with their gambling cases and other cases.

Eventually I was approached by John DeArco Sr. (ph), the first ward alderman, or I'm sorry, the first ward committeeman. He indicated that he heard I was a fantastic trial lawyer, and wanted me to teach his son John Jr. how to practice law, how to try a case. That was my original involvement with the first ward.

CAFFERTY: As you got sucked into this thing, did it occur to you, you were doing bad stuff, that this was the wrong way for you to be living your life?

COOLEY: Well, you had to understand the system in Chicago. When I first got involved practicing law, the system was corrupt. There were some courts that were money courts, had been money courts for a while, and continued to be. The judges, the lawyers, the police, everybody involved in it was part of it. We also had legitimate courts here in the city that, basic courts that were controlled by the first ward were money courts, where you paid if you wanted to win.

CAFFERTY: What caused you to one day look in the mirror and say, you know what, I can't do this anymore. You know, you came from a long line of cops -- your grandfather, your dad, you were a police officer. There's a proud tradition among those guys that it's important to do it the right way.

COOLEY: That's correct.

CAFFERTY: What happened? How come you decided I can't do it anymore.

COOLEY: Well, a couple of things. The final straw was when I was told ahead of time the day before they were going to kill somebody, and then they went and they killed him, and I couldn't do anything about it. I could not stop it. That was when I realized I had to break away from these people.

When I was representing the first ward people, and some of the top mobsters in the city, I was told what the rules were as a defense lawyer. As a defense lawyer, you are supposed to let them know if there's an informant, so they could kill him. If you find out somebody is doing something illegal and not paying street tax, you turn them in, so they can pay street tax. I just refused to do that from the start. And then they were going to kill me when I warned somebody that they were going to kill, and he got away. And when they were going to kill me for no reason at that stage I realized it was time for me to, you know, break away from these people, and I did break away from these people.

CAFFERTY: You wound up working for the prosecution. Your undercover work including wearing wires with some of your old Mob buddies, resulting in nine different indictments. Now you're on the run. I use that figuratively. You're not literally on the run. But you're moving around, you're keeping a very low profile. You're not in the witness protection program. The question occurs to me, you and I are the same age -- are you at peace with how you lived your life thus far?

COOLEY: Oh, absolutely, I mean, you know, we don't get replays in life, we make decisions and we live by them. As I say, as an attorney, I felt that I wasn't as bad as the others, because I refused to fix certain cases. I would not fix molesting cases. I would not represent people on molesting cases. I would not represent people on certain murder cases. I mean, I picked and chose who I wanted to represent, but I began to realize after a while with the first ward that you were part of it. You were an enabler if you were with these people.

CAFFERTY: If you remember that the old television series "The Untouchables," this is the man who lived that story from the inside out. It wasn't during the Prohibition Era, but it was everybody bit as corrupt, and as violent and as bloody. Bob Cooley's book is called "When Corruption Was King."

Thanks for being with us this morning. Appreciate it.

COOLEY: Bill, back to you.

HEMMER: Oh, the stories there. Thank you, Jack, for that.

In a moment, President Bush picking up some key endorsements over the weekend. Senator Kerry did the same. But it might be more telling to look at the one President Bush did not get. We'll talk to a campaign insider about that, when we continue, on the road in Chicago, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired October 18, 2004 - 08:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. It is just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. We are here in Chicago. The election, of course, two weeks away. And we are talking politics with the locals. This morning, we're calling it deep dish politics, in honor of Chicago of course. We're taking a look at the president's movement in the polls and a flurry of endorsements. We're going to find out how the Chicago media are covering the campaign.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Also in a moment here, the military's investigation into why an Army platoon in Iraq refused to go on this refueling mission. Is there a problem in protecting the troops? Barbara Starr is looking into that. We'll get to Barbara's report in a moment.

And I would be remiss not to see every 30 minutes, welcome back.

O'BRIEN: You could say it as often as you like; it's nice to be here.

HEMMER: Welcome back. It's great to have you back.

O'BRIEN: Thank you.

HEMMER: Want to get to Heidi Collins with us again here in Chicago.

Good morning to you.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you, guys.

HEMMER: Looking at the other news this hours.

COLLINS: Yes, that's right. In fact, now in the news today, President Bush is set to approve a $33 billion measure on homeland security. The president is expected to sign the bill in about an hour at the Oval Office. He'll then head to New Jersey where he'll give a major policy speech on terrorism. Senator John Kerry campaigning in Florida today. In about an hour, he's expected to meet with early voters in West Palm Beach.

There's word this morning some suspected terrorists are back at work. According to the Associated Press, at least seven prisoners once held in U.S. custody at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba have returned to terrorism-related activities. The detainees are reportedly part of a group released from the U.S. Naval base after U.S. officials determined they did not pose a threat. And North Korea's second highest leader, Kim Jong Nam, has arrived in Beijing. He's expected to focus on jumpstarting nuclear crisis talks just days before U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell visits Japan, China and South Korea next weekend. It's also part of an effort to restart six nation talks about North Korea's nuclear weapons program. That is the news this morning.

HEMMER: I want to see the home run that went down at 1:30 in the morning last night.

COLLINS: Do we have it? We've got to have it.

HEMMER: I don't know if we have it cued up now. But in a moment here, Red Sox beat the Yankees.

COLLINS: They did, amazing.

HEMMER: They're trying to keep hope alive, are they not?

COLLINS: They've just got to win all of the rest of them now.

HEMMER: Thank you, Heidi.

Back to this story now with the U.S. Army saying the supply unit's refusal to carry out its mission is an isolated incident, but it may point to a bigger problem for U.S. troops in Iraq. And for that, Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon.

Barbara, good morning there.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill.

Well, indeed, today the investigation is continuing into an episode last week when 18 Army soldiers in Iraq refused to drive their fuel convoys, saying the mission was simply too dangerous.

Now, in a very unusual Sunday press conference in Baghdad, and keep in mind, we haven't had any press conferences by the military out of Baghdad in months, but yesterday, the commanding general of the unit said he has ordered all equipment in that unit reinspected. He is having some retraining done. He said there were some valid concerns by the soldiers, but they expressed them inappropriately, and he is going a step further.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIG. GEN. JAMES E. CHAMBERS, 13TH CORPS SUPPORT COMMAND: I have directed that the 343rd conduct a maintenance and safety stand-down during which time vehicles will be thoroughly inspected, and the unit will retrain and certify for their mission. We will also assess armor protection for each of their vehicles, and make an assessment to provide additional steel plating if it'S required.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Now, General Chambers says all convoys do get armed escorts, but this is raising continuing questions about whether there are indeed enough armored vehicles in Iraq, just one indicator. And keep in mind the numbers constantly change because more and more armed vehicles are coming into the country, but those Humvees, those jeep- type vehicles that we're so familiar seeing, the Army is reporting that it's still something like 8,000 vehicles short of what it its requirement is for those types of armored vehicles in Iraq.

Now, as far as this incident goes, Bill, the Army is, in fact, still emphasizing, it's an isolated incident, but it is something they are concerned about. They have not seen a breakdown in unit discipline before, in at least not in Iraq, and it's something they are watching very closely -- Bill.

HEMMER: And getting a lot of attention, too.

Barbara Starr from the Pentagon. Barbara, thanks -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Thanks.

Here in Chicago, you know two things stir people's passions, sports and politics. And since the Cubs didn't make it, we're not going to talk about sports this morning, but we will talk politics. In fact, we are calling it deep dish politics in honor of our weeklong visit here this morning.

Our guest, Jim Warren, he's the deputy managing editor of "The Chicago Tribune."

Good morning. Nice to see you.

JIM WARREN, "CHICAGO TRIBUNE": Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Debra Pickett is from the "Chicago-Sun Times."

Nice to have you. Thanks for being with us.

DEBRA PICKETT, "CHICAGO-SUN TIMES": Thank you.

And Teri O'Brien, WLS Radio talk show host with us this morning.

I always say, you can never have too many O'Briens on the show.

TERI O'BRIEN, WLS RADIO: That's what I say as well.

O'BRIEN: Let's get right into it. We're talking about the Bush bounce this morning.

Debra, I'm going to ask you to start. Among the national polls, he's up 8 points in some, two points in others. The average is somewhere over 3 points. Do you think this is -- really is a bump. And what do you make of it?

PICKETT: You know, I don't make much of it at this point, Soledad. I think, you know, as everybody's been saying, there's one poll that counts. It's November 2nd. What we learned in the 2000 election was that it's really about the Electoral College; it's about those six swing states that are still too close to call. So you know, everybody knows it's going to be a really tight election, and I'm not sure the polls really make much of a difference at this point.

O'BRIEN: Jim, what do you think is the reason for the bounce, even if you don't think the bounce is going to mean anything over the next 15 days?

WARREN: First, can I thank you and CNN for placing that full- page color ad in the "Tribune" this morning. We're appreciative of the revenue.

O'BRIEN: I was happy to do it.

WARREN: We'll take the revenue anyway we can.

Well, I think you clearly saw Kerry re-establishing himself as a real viable, credible candidate in the debates. As for what happened in the week or so after, I think perhaps Bush is just a little bit more aggressive campaigner.

But nevertheless, you look at most of the polls, they're in the statistical margin of error. And I think more important, sort of as Debra suggests, is looking at individual states, and if you look at some of the so-called tracking polls in some of the key battleground states, in fact, Bush, though, ahead nationally, in those states is a little bit behind. So you've got to be a little more nervous about that if you are the president.

O'BRIEN: Terry, your colleagues here don't seem to be so wowed by the polls. We've been talking about this bounce. Where do you stand?

T. O'BRIEN: I think they're right about that. I think that we have to be skeptical of these polls, because we don't really know to what extent they're going to prove true. On Election Day, that's the poll that counts.

However, I think that the Bush bounce is probably real, and the Kerry sink is probably real, from what I'm hearing from my listeners, just that the polls...

O'BRIEN: For what reason? What are your listeners saying that triggered...

T. O'BRIEN: Well, the thing is that, they don't find Kerry convincing when he goes out and says, I'm going to hunt down and kill terrorists. It sounds like something he is being told to say, versus the thing he said in "The New York Times" last Sunday, a week ago, about wanting to go back to where terrorism was a nuisance, like gambling and prostitution. It's exhausting to keep saying something you don't really believe, and that's what they're seeing in Senator Kerry, just opportunism. He's a poser, basically.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit about the newspaper endorsements. Jim, in fact, your newspaper "The Chicago Trib," endorsed Bush for president, and I'm wondering how much it makes an impact? I mean, to what degree does it really matter? Or is it the same as the polls. It doesn't really -- what really matters is in two weeks?

WARREN: First of all, rest assured that a lot of folks in Chicago did not wake up yesterday stunned with surprise. In our 157 years of operation, I believe we have endorsed the Democrat once, and that was another newspaper publisher in New York, who then went to the Republican Party two weeks later. So for the last century, we do Republicans all the time.

I think once upon a time, certainly before cable, before talk radio, I think newspaper endorsements, the local papers support of a candidate, presidential candidate, had a lot more weight than it does now. And it can still have a little bit of weight if it goes against type. "The Chicago Tribune" endorsing a Republican no big surprise. "New York Times" supporting a Democrat, as it did yesterday, with Kerry. If it had been the other way, if we had gone against type, then I think you might have a little bit more impact.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit about the Senate race before we sun out of time here. It's been an interesting race. Of course, it looks like Obama is running away with it. But again, we'll know in two weeks. We hate to make predictions ahead of time.

PICKETT: You can probably make that prediction.

O'BRIEN: Pretty safe.

First, what happened to the Republican Party here in Illinois? it seems like they kind of gave up on Jim Ryan and had sort of -- am I reading it wrong, or did they just sort of disengage?

PICKETT: No, I think it's broader than that, too. I think the Republican Party, really on a national basis, has decided not to run or support the kind of Republicans who could win here in Illinois. They are not supporting moderate Republicans anymore.

T. O'BRIEN: No, we have no Republican Party in Illinois. We have a party that's led by a political cross dresser who is not a Republican and -- I mean, in my own congressional district she, 10 years ago, supported the Democrat against a Republican who could win. So we have no Republican Party in Illinois. It's a joke.

O'BRIEN: We are going to be speaking to the two Senate candidates here tomorrow on AMERICAN MORNING.

Jim, and Debra and Teri, thanks for being with us this morning. It's nice to have you -- Bill.

HEMMER All right, Soledad, as promised a few moments ago, it took until 1:22 a.m. Eastern Time this morning, 12:22 here in Chicago, finally David Ortiz smacked a two-run home run in the bottom of the 12th to keep hope alive in Boston, 6-4 win over the Yankees late last night, early into the morning hours, extending that ALCS to a fifth game. 5:00 they'll play this afternoon in Boston. Game five there, 3-1, though, the Yanks on top. 2-2 in the other divisional playoff series. You've got Houston and St. Louis now locked up at two games apiece after Houston came back yesterday.

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O'BRIEN: Tomorrow, our visit to Chicago is going to take us to Loyola University, which is along Chicago's magnificent mile. And our guest tomorrow as well is going to be U.S. Senate candidates Barack Obama, Alan Keyes as well. Also we'll been talking with bestselling author Scott Thoreau (ph), and film critic Roger Ebert will be joining us as well. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

We're back in just a moment. Stay with us, everybody.

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HEMMER: Welcome back, everyone.

We are live in Chicago this morning. We're Also paging the good doctor at this hour, Sanjay Gupta, about the nation's flu shot shortage. Several states taking emergency measures to ensure that the existing vaccine gets to those who need it the most.

Sanjay's back in the CNN Center in Atlanta.

Good morning, Sanjay.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.

You guys look great out there, by the way, in Chicago.

HEMMER: Thank you. Thank you.

GUPTA: Hey, listen, now really heating up, both presidential candidates weighing in on the topic. The second question of the debate last week is, well, about the flu shot, lots of people waiting in long lines. A woman in San Francisco actually died over the weekend waiting in line for the flu shot. She died of exhaustion, two others collapsing in line, really becoming a huge problem, and the latest news out of Chairon (ph), the latest news out of England, really that none of those 40-plus million flu vaccination shots will be available. That's been confirmed now, not We're not going to see those shots, talking about the long lines, also talking about some specific states now issuing restrictive orders, focusing on two things. If people give the flu shot to those that don't qualify, they could risk a fine, and also people who gouge, charge too much, could also risk a fine.

First of all, who are the high risk people? We've been talking about this for some time, worth pointing out again, kids between the ages of six and 23 months, all pregnant women, people with a chronic disease, and everyone over the age of 65.

And, again, some of the states now, we've been talking about the national recommendations now, states issuing their own restrictive orders, several states around the country. You can take a look there.

Let me point out a couple of things. In Michigan, Massachusetts, Oregon, and D.C., you can risk a fine up to a thousand dollars. It could also be a misdemeanor charge. In Wisconsin, you can face up to 30 days in prison if you break any of those two rules.

But the message is, if you're healthy, get out of line. That's what everyone has been saying. And also the flu mist, you and I have talked about this, Bill, that's the nasal spray. That is good for healthy people. That is an option as well to consider -- Bill.

HEMMER: Two quick questions here. How many Americans on that list of high risk?

GUPTA: They say about 90 million Americans, and over past years, Bill, we know that about half of those people typically get the flu shot. So if you do that math there should actually be enough based on previous years use -- Bill.

HEMMER: All right. Here was the problem last year. We could not determine what strain of the flu virus was hitting the U.S. Do we know this year better that answer?

GUPTA: There is something called an antigen shift, which sometimes happens, meaning that the strain actually changes sort of midway. All indicators at this point indicate that that has not happened. The flu shot should work for this year's flu -- Bill.

HEMMER: Is it possible the amount of attention the shortage is getting, driving more people to stand in line?

GUPTA: Absolutely. A very interesting sort of social consequence. You see this is something that is easily not available, not easily available, suddenly becomes in more demand, people standing in lines that maybe otherwise would not have. The recommendations, though, stay the same -- Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Sanjay, thanks for that. We'll keep in touch with you on this story.

Sanjay Gupta, with our "House Call" at the CNN Center -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Well, it's time to get a preview of the markets this morning. And we're getting word of Ford getting Sirius about radio. Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business," also in Chicago with us.

Hey, Andy, good morning again.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning. And, again, nice to see you back, Soledad.

We're going to be following the price of oil I'm sure for many days to come. It is still hovering around $55. That is making futures weak this morning. An update on that later in the morning. Let's talk about Sirius radio, though. And here you go with the -- what happened last week. We definitely have some weakness there.

As far as satellite radio, you know, you've got a couple big business rivalries that jump to mind, of course, like Hertz, Aviz; Coke, Pepsi, but is satellite radio the next big rivalry. We're talking Sirius Radio versus XM Radio. And some news this morning that Sirius Radio, which just signed Howard Stern, which I'm sure you've probably heard about, is now going to be benefiting because Ford is going to be rolling out Sirius Radio in its cars much more than it has in the past. They're going to be installing it in the factory. Before it had been an aftermarket product, and they're also going to be installing it in more models. And Sirius is still lagging behind XM. They've got 600,000 subscribers, versus XM that's got 2.5 million, hoping that the shock jock can help close that gap.

Soledad, also, we are talking a couple days ago about...

O'BRIEN: Well, I think we have a little technical difficulty with Andy. Let's see if we can fix that and get back to him in a little bit.

Still to come this morning, something we really have not talked about yet, Chicago's checkered past, namely it's mob history. Jack is going to talk to a good cop, gone bad cop, gone good cop again, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.

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O'BRIEN: And welcome back, everybody. The morning commute is now under way.

Let's take you back over the Carton's (ph) restaurant, which where we find Jack and Andy this morning.

Good morning to you, guys.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Soledad.

Chicago and the Mob, ever since Al Capone ruled the city back during Prohibition, the words have been almost synonymous. Capone was born in Brooklyn, New York, came to Chicago in 1919. He inherited an organization called "The Outfit," and that was the beginning of the Capone legend. Corrupt politicians and police officers helped fuel Capone's power. Everybody had a price. They could all be bought.

Eventually, Capone went to prison, and in the late '70s and early '80s, mob activity was controlled out of the infamous First Ward in Chicago.

My guest this morning led three different lives. A former Chicago cop, he went haywire as a young lawyer, began working for the Mob, fixing cases, bribing judges. In 1986, he turned on the wiseguys, became an informant for the government, wearing a wire and gathering evidence that resulted in nine indictments. He broke the back of one of the strongest organized crime organizations in the country. Of course, when word got out he was doing this, the mob put out a million-dollar price on his head.

His book is called "When Corruption Was King."

We're delighted to welcome Bob Cooley to AMERICAN MORNING. So what caused you go to haywire. You had it all going your.

Young lawyer, prosperous, making lots of money, doing it the right way. Why did you turn crooked?

ROBERT COOLEY, AUTHOR, "WHEN CORRUPTION WAS KING": There was a number of things that happened over in my life, first as a policeman, and then later as an attorney. I started off practicing law, loved it, enjoyed it, started representing some people initially with their gambling cases and other cases.

Eventually I was approached by John DeArco Sr. (ph), the first ward alderman, or I'm sorry, the first ward committeeman. He indicated that he heard I was a fantastic trial lawyer, and wanted me to teach his son John Jr. how to practice law, how to try a case. That was my original involvement with the first ward.

CAFFERTY: As you got sucked into this thing, did it occur to you, you were doing bad stuff, that this was the wrong way for you to be living your life?

COOLEY: Well, you had to understand the system in Chicago. When I first got involved practicing law, the system was corrupt. There were some courts that were money courts, had been money courts for a while, and continued to be. The judges, the lawyers, the police, everybody involved in it was part of it. We also had legitimate courts here in the city that, basic courts that were controlled by the first ward were money courts, where you paid if you wanted to win.

CAFFERTY: What caused you to one day look in the mirror and say, you know what, I can't do this anymore. You know, you came from a long line of cops -- your grandfather, your dad, you were a police officer. There's a proud tradition among those guys that it's important to do it the right way.

COOLEY: That's correct.

CAFFERTY: What happened? How come you decided I can't do it anymore.

COOLEY: Well, a couple of things. The final straw was when I was told ahead of time the day before they were going to kill somebody, and then they went and they killed him, and I couldn't do anything about it. I could not stop it. That was when I realized I had to break away from these people.

When I was representing the first ward people, and some of the top mobsters in the city, I was told what the rules were as a defense lawyer. As a defense lawyer, you are supposed to let them know if there's an informant, so they could kill him. If you find out somebody is doing something illegal and not paying street tax, you turn them in, so they can pay street tax. I just refused to do that from the start. And then they were going to kill me when I warned somebody that they were going to kill, and he got away. And when they were going to kill me for no reason at that stage I realized it was time for me to, you know, break away from these people, and I did break away from these people.

CAFFERTY: You wound up working for the prosecution. Your undercover work including wearing wires with some of your old Mob buddies, resulting in nine different indictments. Now you're on the run. I use that figuratively. You're not literally on the run. But you're moving around, you're keeping a very low profile. You're not in the witness protection program. The question occurs to me, you and I are the same age -- are you at peace with how you lived your life thus far?

COOLEY: Oh, absolutely, I mean, you know, we don't get replays in life, we make decisions and we live by them. As I say, as an attorney, I felt that I wasn't as bad as the others, because I refused to fix certain cases. I would not fix molesting cases. I would not represent people on molesting cases. I would not represent people on certain murder cases. I mean, I picked and chose who I wanted to represent, but I began to realize after a while with the first ward that you were part of it. You were an enabler if you were with these people.

CAFFERTY: If you remember that the old television series "The Untouchables," this is the man who lived that story from the inside out. It wasn't during the Prohibition Era, but it was everybody bit as corrupt, and as violent and as bloody. Bob Cooley's book is called "When Corruption Was King."

Thanks for being with us this morning. Appreciate it.

COOLEY: Bill, back to you.

HEMMER: Oh, the stories there. Thank you, Jack, for that.

In a moment, President Bush picking up some key endorsements over the weekend. Senator Kerry did the same. But it might be more telling to look at the one President Bush did not get. We'll talk to a campaign insider about that, when we continue, on the road in Chicago, after this.

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