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CNN Live At Daybreak

'Hot Topics'; Holiday Shopping; Politics in the Pulpit

Aired October 21, 2004 - 06:29   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: It is getting down to the wire, folks. Just 12 more days until the presidential election, and we've got a new poll for you. Gallup asked Kerry voters how they would feel if Bush wins re-election; 57 percent say very upset, 25 percent say somewhat upset, but 16 percent say they will not be upset at all.
Gallup put the same question to Bush supporters, how would you feel if Kerry wins? Half say very upset, 33 percent say somewhat upset, and 17 percent say they will not be upset.

Well, the White House is moving quickly to head off a new Iraq war controversy; this one involving Christian Coalition founder Pat Robertson. The minister told CNN that President Bush confidently told him before the war there would be no major U.S. casualties. Senior Bush aides say the president made no such comment and that the Reverend Robertson must have misunderstood.

All right, John Kerry is criticizing the Bush administration's color-coded terror alert system. John Kerry told "Rolling Stone" magazine he's come up with a more thoughtful way of alerting America. He says -- and this is a quote: "I think the most important thing to do is alert law enforcement more effectively across the country. Law enforcement doesn't have even a single unified watch list yet. They still have separate watch lists with different names and different people. This is the single simplest most important thing the Department of Homeland Security was supposed to do, and they haven't done it yet" -- end quote.

Well, maybe chalk it up to the strain of the campaign. Who knows what was going through Teresa Heinz Kerry's mind, but she has offered an apology to First Lady Laura Bush.

In a "USA Today" interview, the wife of the Democratic presidential candidate said she didn't think Mrs. Bush ever had a real job. Well, she said later she was sincerely sorry for that remark. And then added: "I had forgotten that Mrs. Bush had worked as a school teacher and librarian, and there couldn't be a more important job than teaching our children. I appreciate and honor Mrs. Bush's service to the country as first lady and am sincerely sorry I had not remembered her important work in the past."

Well, the Bush camp gave a short shrift to that apology, as you can imagine.

All right, Ron Brownstein, our political analyst and actually for the "Los Angeles Times" as well.

Ron, what do you make of those remarks? How damaging do you think it was, if at all?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, I think it's probably going to be a momentary controversy, but it isn't helpful. You know, the implication in what she said originally, and it's somewhat ambiguous, but certainly some people could interpret what she originally said as sort of suggesting that being a full-time mother to the extent that Mrs. Bush was in her life was not a real job. And, of course, that carries echoes of the Hillary Clinton comments in 1992 about staying home and baking cookies.

Now, there were other suggestions in the comments that she did not feel that way. But, I do think, you know...

LIN: Yes, but, you know, the fact that she's a billionaire because she married a billionaire, right?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, that's exactly right.

LIN: So this is a woman who immigrated, who married a very wealthy man and lost her husband, and is now very wealthy and could be the next first lady. So I don't think she's going to get a lot of sympathy from this, would you?

BROWNSTEIN: No, I believe you're right. And I do think that it's -- you know, as we've watched all of these things, Carol, it's hard to imagine that any one of these little controversies are that lasting or significant when you have people dying in Iraq and so forth. But in a very close race, you don't need these kinds of headaches.

LIN: You bet. OK, speaking of the close race, your Sox won, Ron.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, I love that.

LIN: You can show some bias here.

BROWNSTEIN: And, you know, when you were talking about the race, I thought, you know, that there are two races going on. And I suppose -- I'm guessing if John Kerry is behind in the polls next week...

LIN: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: ... can you imagine how many Red Sox metaphors we're going to hear from him?

LIN: Can you imagine?

BROWNSTEIN: This is going to be...

LIN: All right, so what happens if the Houston Astros play the Boston Red Sox?

BROWNSTEIN: Oh, it'll be red/blue proxy baseball, you know. I mean, it will be the Bush Texans -- I remember when he was governor once driving around with him in Houston and him showing me the field as they were building it there. And he was incredibly well-versed on what was going on.

LIN: President Bush?

BROWNSTEIN: I mean, he is a baseball fan. I was told he was going to be watching last night.

LIN: Oh, I bet, and I'm sure John Kerry -- they were in their respective camps, as you can well imagine, right?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Absolutely right.

LIN: All right...

BROWNSTEIN: But like I said, I mean, you know, you've got a situation where you've got metaphor alert now for the next two weeks.

LIN: Metaphor alert, OK. We're going to have to stand by on that one. So what are you anticipating -- I don't even know -- should I ask you about the race, or should I ask you about the Houston Astros game...

BROWNSTEIN: No, you don't -- yes, the interesting thing about the...

LIN: ... this weekend?

BROWNSTEIN: The thing about the race is you've got -- I think what you're going to see now is two very different tasks. On the one hand, you're going to see continuing efforts to reach those last few swing voters who historically, Carol, have broken against the incumbent. I mean, that's the tradition. People who are undecided at the end tend to break against the incumbent.

The Republicans are hopeful that because people have been exposed to so much information this year that if they're not decided by now, they're simply not going to vote that much.

So on the one hand, you've got the swing voters, but I think you're going to see increasing focus as with President Clinton's appearance with John Kerry Monday in Philadelphia on motivating the base. How big a turnout this election is I think is still the big wildcard.

LIN: Right.

BROWNSTEIN: The one big question that looms over all of these polls is, do they anticipate or do they accommodate as big a turnout as is possible? And that's something that...

LIN: Yes. And, Ron, what if there is a terror alert in the next -- you know, what if the terror alert threat level is raised sometime in the next 12 days?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, I don't know. I mean, I think that -- you know, I think that would be something that would be seen as -- you know, it would be received very cynically by certainly the Democratic portions of the electorate. I think it would be a risky move. I think they'd have to have very, very good reason to do it.

LIN: All right, Ron Brownstein, always great to have you.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

LIN: And we want to apologize for that graphic, because Ron, not Rob, Brownstein, has been with us for years.

All right, politics and the pulpit and the men who want to be president. Coming up, will faith be a factor when you cast your vote? Some say it shouldn't. We're going to debate the role of religion coming up.

And later, the family album of sorts for the fan, a new book on "old blue eyes," but a very different one.

First, here's a look at what else is making news this Thursday morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Time now for a little business buzz. We haven't even passed Halloween yet, but retailers are preparing for a jolly holiday shopping season.

Carrie Lee has that story, and she's at the Nasdaq Times Square.

Carrie, frankly, every year the retailers say we're going to have a great season. When the season ends and they say, well, we're really disappointed.

CARRIE LEE, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, we'll see, Carol. I mean, high gas prices this year have been causing some concern that people won't have as much money to spend on the holidays.

But according to the National Retail Federation's 2004 holiday survey, consumers plan to spend a little bit more this year, up about 4.5 percent from last year. The average amount of money people will spend: $702.03.

Overall, spending for the holidays is estimated to reach about $220 billion this year, most of the money, of course, going to friends and colleagues, $406.52 on family, and then $71.29 on friends. I should have said friends and family, not friends and colleagues, although maybe some people will spend some money on their colleagues. And we'll see what happens.

But not such a bad report coming out, again from the National Retail Federation.

Looking at stocks overall today, we could see some selling on Wall Street, looking like some red arrows pointing downward. That's what futures are indicating anyway.

Chiron Corporation, one company in focus. As you were saying earlier, the company's executives last night hedging about whether they're going to be able to return to selling flu vaccine in the United States next year. So there's some concern there.

Meanwhile, giving some profit numbers, excluding some charges relating to various acquisitions, Chiron earned $49 million, or 26 cents a share versus 60 cents a share in the year-ago period. The stock has lost a lot of ground, down from $45 to about $31 in the past week or so.

Carol -- back to you.

LIN: Wow! All right, thanks very much, Carrie. And I do shopping for my colleagues during the holiday season.

All right, Britain's Prince Harry got into a scuffle with photographers outside a London nightclub, and you're looking at some of the pictures here. We hear that Prince Harry was actually hit in the face by a camera. And a photographer, the one that Prince Harry is up against right there, complained that he got a cut lip, and he's actually thinking about filing charges and maybe even a lawsuit in this case.

Prince Harry was coming out of a nightclub at about 3:00 in the morning when he was surrounded by photographers. According to this photographer who was allegedly injured, Prince Harry got in his car, but then jumped back out and, according to this photographer, attacked him.

So we'll see what happens. You know, Prince Harry is third in line for the British throne, so obviously a lot at stake here. No girlfriend in sight there, but we'll keep an eye on this story.

In the meantime, we're going to check in with Bill and Soledad in Chicago for a look at what's coming up on "AMERICAN MORNING."

Good morning, guys.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Carol.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you, Carol.

HEMMER: Good morning. Our tour continues here in Chicago. We're with a very good friend of ours behind us. We're going to introduce you a bit later. But as our tour continues, we're also going to talk about politics now, 12 days away. How nasty will this election get? Will it really end after Election Day? We'll talk to Liz Cheney this morning and also Mike McCurry (ph) from both sides coming up.

O'BRIEN: Also, here's a headline I think a lot of people are waking up, either shocked or already know that the Red Sox beat the Yankees. Boston is now closer to ending their curse. Fans here, of course, know about curses. So how does the Cubs curse compare to the Red Sox curse? We're going to talk with a local sportscaster this morning.

HEMMER: And all around this city, they have a lot of sympathy for Boston. O'BRIEN: They do.

HEMMER: And a lot of support, too.

O'BRIEN: I have not actually found one Yankee fan here in Chicago yet.

HEMMER: I think you're right about there. Actually...

O'BRIEN: But hope springs eternal.

HEMMER: Jim Belushi is not a Yankee fan. He's a native son of Chicago and tells us today what we should see and do while we're in town. But time is running out, isn't it?

O'BRIEN: Yes.

HEMMER: Today is Thursday, tomorrow the last day here at the Adler Planetarium behind us, but today we're at the Great Field Museum, and it is truly great, too. So we'll let you know all about it coming up at the top of the hour -- Carol.

LIN: Looks good. Bill, your friend needs a little meat on his bones, huh?

HEMMER: Oh, you think so?

LIN: Yes, I think so. Anyway...

HEMMER: Hey, Carol, he hasn't eaten in a while.

LIN: Yes, we all need a good meal once in a while. Soledad, welcome back, by the way. You look great.

O'BRIEN: Thank you so much. Thanks.

LIN: It's great to have you back.

O'BRIEN: Thanks.

LIN: All right. And we'll see you guys shortly.

HEMMER: OK.

LIN: Coming up on "AMERICAN MORNING."

Well, they used to be dinner conversation taboos, religion and politics, but this election year they're both often front and center. President Bush has always been very outspoken about his faith, and in 2000 he carried 62 percent of the regular churchgoing vote. And Senator John Kerry has been more outspoken about his beliefs in the last few weeks.

But what about politics in the pulpit and from the pulpit? Is there a place for political discussion on the pews? Our guests are the Reverend Billy McCormick with The Christian Coalition and Robert Boston, spokesman for Americans United for the Separation of Church and State.

Good to have you both very early this morning.

ROBERT BOSTON, AMERICANS UNITED: Thanks.

BILLY MCCORMICK, THE CHRISTIAN COALITION: Thank you.

LIN: Dr. McCormick, are you asking different congregants to vote one way or another when it comes to this election?

MCCORMICK: No, we are giving out voter guides, which will instruct the people as to the stands taken by the candidates. And then we insist that they make up their own minds as to who they will vote for.

LIN: Are there any specifics, though? I mean, when you talk about, for example, stem cell research or abortion, the candidates' views on that, how is it worded in these brochures?

MCCORMICK: Well, it's worded in such a way that it is as nonpartisan as we can make them. We are a nonpartisan organization, and the questions are phrased in such a manner as to be just that.

LIN: OK. Even though Pat Robertson, your partner, has been pretty vocal about his support for President Bush as well as his personal relationship? I mean, that's got to have an influence on congregants, too.

MCCORMICK: Well, actually as individuals, we can support whomever we wish. And Pat Robertson and I both support President Bush. But we don't recommend him from the pulpits.

LIN: All right.

MCCORMICK: When I was a young preacher, I could do this, but not in this day.

LIN: Well, separation of church and state has been around for a while.

Robert Boston, isn't it important, though -- it is important for many people that they judge a candidate based on their morals, their character, their values. So isn't religion just another facet of that? Isn't it important that people understand how their community feels about those things as well to vote on these important issues coming up?

BOSTON: Sure, sure. And a society as religious as ours is, no one would expect that there wouldn't be an influence from religion on politics. There's a right way and a wrong way to do that. The Christian Coalition voter guides are partisan. They're Bush re- election material and are not accurate.

LIN: What's partisan about them?

BOSTON: Well, if you look at them, there are 15 issues on that list. And on five of them, John Kerry is listed as giving no response, which would lead you to believe that he responded to the other 10. But, in fact, he didn't respond to any of them. The Christian Coalition made up those answers. They're not accurate. They are designed to put him in a negative light.

I've studied these guides extensively now since the Coalition was founded. I've written about them. They are partisan attack material. And that in 2000, The Christian Coalition actually put out a voter's guide during the primary campaign season that made John McCain look as liberal as Ted Kennedy, because they wanted to help George Bush.

This material has no business being in our houses of worship. In fact, I think puts a church's tax exemption at risk to even hand it out.

LIN: Well, Robert, the legalities of it aside, let me ask you this. I mean, polls show that the president is preferred by some 80 percent of white evangelical Christians. So aren't these pamphlets just preaching to the choir? What's the damage there?

BOSTON: Well, The Christian Coalition has been trying to get them more widely distributed. They want to get them out of the churches and into other areas. But I still think even if they're only preaching to the choir, there is a significant moral dimension here we need to look at. Should churches be involved in this sort of nasty partisan attack? Houses of worship are supposed to be a little bit better than just another unit out there doing partisan hackwork.

Aside from the legal issues, there is a moral issue that our religious leaders need to look at when they're being asked to handle this type of partisan material.

LIN: Dr. McCormick, partisan material. That's what Robert is calling it.

MCCORMICK: Well, Americans United...

LIN: And, you know, in violation, frankly, of federal law when it comes to IRS tax exemptions for your organization.

MCCORMICK: Well, we operate within the regulations of the IRS. We're just not going to operate within the regulations of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State. I was a member of Americans United when it was Protestants and Other Americans United for the Separation of Church and State.

LIN: Where does your literature draw the line, then? How is it that your literature...

MCCORMICK: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

LIN: How is it that your literature and your proselytizing when it comes to issues important to this election, how do you stay within the bounds of the IRS?

MCCORMICK: Well, we are in -- we're working with...

LIN: That you're not a partisan organization?

MCCORMICK: We're working with the IRS actually. And everything that we put out is such that we have worked it out. And so we stay in communication with the IRS actually.

And so this is just a scare tactic by Americans United. They want to be the official regulator of the church and the Christian religion. And when I knew it back in the early days when it first started, it was not an anti-Christ organization. But now it has assumed that kind of posture.

LIN: Dr. Billy McCormick, I didn't hear anything from Robert Boston that indicated he was anti-Christ. But more to come on this issue. Thank you very much, Robert Boston and Dr. Billy McCormick. I wish we had more time.

BOSTON: Thank you.

LIN: All right. Your news, money, weather and sports. It is now 48 past the hour, 12 minutes to the hour. Here's what's all new this morning.

At least 39 people have been killed by a powerful typhoon in Japan. The storm caused massive flooding and mudslides in rural areas. It is the 10th typhoon to hit Japan this year.

And in money, Qwest Communications has reportedly agreed to pay $250 million to settle a fraud investigation by the SEC. The AP reports Qwest was being investigated for allegedly inflating revenue and trying to cover it up.

Now in culture, Wal-Mart has a problem with "Jon Stewart and The Daily Show." "America, the Book," which was written by "The Daily Show's" writers, will not be sold at Wal-Mart stores, because it includes nudity. The book has fake nude pictures of the Supreme Court justices.

In sports, the impossible became possible. The Red Sox beat the Yankees in game seven of the American League championship series. They are the first team in baseball history to come back from a three game deficit to win a series.

(WEATHER REPORT)

LIN: When we come back, he wasn't just the chairman of the board; he was also a friend and a family guy. I'm going to speak to the author of a new book that takes a different approach to revealing a different side to "old blue eyes."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: And we get a kick out of Frank. Many of us would agree that Frank Sinatra is a national treasure. And now his family wants to share some of the late singer's own treasures with his legions of fans. The family is publishing a book and music CD with never-before- seen pictures and recordings from the chairman of the board. That's Frank's nickname.

Joining me now is Sinatra historian and author, Charles Pignone.

Charles, you were practically a kid when you first hooked up with the Sinatra family. What were you, what, 18 years old?

CHARLES PIGNONE, AUTHOR, "THE SINATRA TREASURES": Yes, I was about 18 years old when I first...

LIN: How did you meet him?

PIGNONE: I him him at a concert in Atlantic City in 1985, and began running his fan club then. And probably the last decade of his career I went to about 500 of his concerts.

LIN: Wow! And in this book that you helped -- really you helped take part in it with the family. I mean, it reads like a family album. It actually has these envelopes within the book where people can actually pull out copies of original keepsakes.

PIGNONE: Correct. Hence, it's called "The Sinatra Treasures." Each chapter has a treasure in it, such as this is the original program from the Kennedy inaugural gala. We have this reprinted in the book. Frank produced the inaugural gala for John F. Kennedy in 1961. Also on the CD in the book, we have a recording. He did a special song, "High Hopes for Kennedy." And this is the first time it's ever been released on CD. It was only released and played during the campaign.

LIN: Do you have something that's actually personal to Frank Sinatra? I mean, something that was his and his alone?

PIGNONE: That's in the book?

LIN: No, that you have with you, because I know you brought some things with you.

PIGNONE: Oh, yes, we have this. These are the hankies that were made up that Frank would give out during the concerts. In 1985, it was decided so many people were giving him flowers and gifts that he would load his pockets up with these hankies that had his picture on it. And he would usually put four or five of these in his jacket pocket, and during the concert when somebody would give him flowers he would pull them out and give them that hankie.

LIN: That's pretty cool. In my hand here I have something here. It looks like a copy of a Western Union telegraph, and it's from Grace Kelly to Frank Sinatra.

PIGNONE: Right.

LIN: "Congratulations. I am so happy and thrilled for you." What was this about?

PIGNONE: Well, that was when he won the Oscar from for here to eternity -- "From Here to Eternity." And actually there was a whole envelope. Sinatra kept all of the telegrams and letters he received from people around the world thanking him and congratulating him for winning that.

LIN: All of this memorabilia, I mean, you publish in the book that if you printed everything in the entire collection, the book would weigh 1,000 pounds. How did you edit down what you finally decided to put in this album and the family decided?

PIGNONE: Well, the man had a 60-year career, so you can imagine there was letters from every president from FDR until Bill Clinton. What we did was we selected about 150 items, and the publisher and myself picked what we thought would be most appealing for the average fan to see in this book. But as I said, there were so many pieces of mementos and memorabilia that we could do five volumes.

LIN: And you might. You may still, huh?

PIGNONE: Maybe. Maybe.

LIN: Charles, thanks so much.

PIGNONE: Thank you.

LIN: "The Sinatra Treasures: Intimate Photos, Mementos and Music." The book certainly lives up to the title.

PIGNONE: Thank you.

LIN: All right. We've got much more straight ahead on DAYBREAK.

Here's your chance also to win a DAYBREAK coffee mug. Today's coffee quiz questions: Do consumers plan to spend more or less during the holidays this year?

We've got much more straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: It's been fun this morning. I'm Carol Lin at CNN's global headquarters. "AMERICAN MORNING" starts right now.

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Aired October 21, 2004 - 06:29   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: It is getting down to the wire, folks. Just 12 more days until the presidential election, and we've got a new poll for you. Gallup asked Kerry voters how they would feel if Bush wins re-election; 57 percent say very upset, 25 percent say somewhat upset, but 16 percent say they will not be upset at all.
Gallup put the same question to Bush supporters, how would you feel if Kerry wins? Half say very upset, 33 percent say somewhat upset, and 17 percent say they will not be upset.

Well, the White House is moving quickly to head off a new Iraq war controversy; this one involving Christian Coalition founder Pat Robertson. The minister told CNN that President Bush confidently told him before the war there would be no major U.S. casualties. Senior Bush aides say the president made no such comment and that the Reverend Robertson must have misunderstood.

All right, John Kerry is criticizing the Bush administration's color-coded terror alert system. John Kerry told "Rolling Stone" magazine he's come up with a more thoughtful way of alerting America. He says -- and this is a quote: "I think the most important thing to do is alert law enforcement more effectively across the country. Law enforcement doesn't have even a single unified watch list yet. They still have separate watch lists with different names and different people. This is the single simplest most important thing the Department of Homeland Security was supposed to do, and they haven't done it yet" -- end quote.

Well, maybe chalk it up to the strain of the campaign. Who knows what was going through Teresa Heinz Kerry's mind, but she has offered an apology to First Lady Laura Bush.

In a "USA Today" interview, the wife of the Democratic presidential candidate said she didn't think Mrs. Bush ever had a real job. Well, she said later she was sincerely sorry for that remark. And then added: "I had forgotten that Mrs. Bush had worked as a school teacher and librarian, and there couldn't be a more important job than teaching our children. I appreciate and honor Mrs. Bush's service to the country as first lady and am sincerely sorry I had not remembered her important work in the past."

Well, the Bush camp gave a short shrift to that apology, as you can imagine.

All right, Ron Brownstein, our political analyst and actually for the "Los Angeles Times" as well.

Ron, what do you make of those remarks? How damaging do you think it was, if at all?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, I think it's probably going to be a momentary controversy, but it isn't helpful. You know, the implication in what she said originally, and it's somewhat ambiguous, but certainly some people could interpret what she originally said as sort of suggesting that being a full-time mother to the extent that Mrs. Bush was in her life was not a real job. And, of course, that carries echoes of the Hillary Clinton comments in 1992 about staying home and baking cookies.

Now, there were other suggestions in the comments that she did not feel that way. But, I do think, you know...

LIN: Yes, but, you know, the fact that she's a billionaire because she married a billionaire, right?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, that's exactly right.

LIN: So this is a woman who immigrated, who married a very wealthy man and lost her husband, and is now very wealthy and could be the next first lady. So I don't think she's going to get a lot of sympathy from this, would you?

BROWNSTEIN: No, I believe you're right. And I do think that it's -- you know, as we've watched all of these things, Carol, it's hard to imagine that any one of these little controversies are that lasting or significant when you have people dying in Iraq and so forth. But in a very close race, you don't need these kinds of headaches.

LIN: You bet. OK, speaking of the close race, your Sox won, Ron.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, I love that.

LIN: You can show some bias here.

BROWNSTEIN: And, you know, when you were talking about the race, I thought, you know, that there are two races going on. And I suppose -- I'm guessing if John Kerry is behind in the polls next week...

LIN: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: ... can you imagine how many Red Sox metaphors we're going to hear from him?

LIN: Can you imagine?

BROWNSTEIN: This is going to be...

LIN: All right, so what happens if the Houston Astros play the Boston Red Sox?

BROWNSTEIN: Oh, it'll be red/blue proxy baseball, you know. I mean, it will be the Bush Texans -- I remember when he was governor once driving around with him in Houston and him showing me the field as they were building it there. And he was incredibly well-versed on what was going on.

LIN: President Bush?

BROWNSTEIN: I mean, he is a baseball fan. I was told he was going to be watching last night.

LIN: Oh, I bet, and I'm sure John Kerry -- they were in their respective camps, as you can well imagine, right?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Absolutely right.

LIN: All right...

BROWNSTEIN: But like I said, I mean, you know, you've got a situation where you've got metaphor alert now for the next two weeks.

LIN: Metaphor alert, OK. We're going to have to stand by on that one. So what are you anticipating -- I don't even know -- should I ask you about the race, or should I ask you about the Houston Astros game...

BROWNSTEIN: No, you don't -- yes, the interesting thing about the...

LIN: ... this weekend?

BROWNSTEIN: The thing about the race is you've got -- I think what you're going to see now is two very different tasks. On the one hand, you're going to see continuing efforts to reach those last few swing voters who historically, Carol, have broken against the incumbent. I mean, that's the tradition. People who are undecided at the end tend to break against the incumbent.

The Republicans are hopeful that because people have been exposed to so much information this year that if they're not decided by now, they're simply not going to vote that much.

So on the one hand, you've got the swing voters, but I think you're going to see increasing focus as with President Clinton's appearance with John Kerry Monday in Philadelphia on motivating the base. How big a turnout this election is I think is still the big wildcard.

LIN: Right.

BROWNSTEIN: The one big question that looms over all of these polls is, do they anticipate or do they accommodate as big a turnout as is possible? And that's something that...

LIN: Yes. And, Ron, what if there is a terror alert in the next -- you know, what if the terror alert threat level is raised sometime in the next 12 days?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, I don't know. I mean, I think that -- you know, I think that would be something that would be seen as -- you know, it would be received very cynically by certainly the Democratic portions of the electorate. I think it would be a risky move. I think they'd have to have very, very good reason to do it.

LIN: All right, Ron Brownstein, always great to have you.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

LIN: And we want to apologize for that graphic, because Ron, not Rob, Brownstein, has been with us for years.

All right, politics and the pulpit and the men who want to be president. Coming up, will faith be a factor when you cast your vote? Some say it shouldn't. We're going to debate the role of religion coming up.

And later, the family album of sorts for the fan, a new book on "old blue eyes," but a very different one.

First, here's a look at what else is making news this Thursday morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Time now for a little business buzz. We haven't even passed Halloween yet, but retailers are preparing for a jolly holiday shopping season.

Carrie Lee has that story, and she's at the Nasdaq Times Square.

Carrie, frankly, every year the retailers say we're going to have a great season. When the season ends and they say, well, we're really disappointed.

CARRIE LEE, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, we'll see, Carol. I mean, high gas prices this year have been causing some concern that people won't have as much money to spend on the holidays.

But according to the National Retail Federation's 2004 holiday survey, consumers plan to spend a little bit more this year, up about 4.5 percent from last year. The average amount of money people will spend: $702.03.

Overall, spending for the holidays is estimated to reach about $220 billion this year, most of the money, of course, going to friends and colleagues, $406.52 on family, and then $71.29 on friends. I should have said friends and family, not friends and colleagues, although maybe some people will spend some money on their colleagues. And we'll see what happens.

But not such a bad report coming out, again from the National Retail Federation.

Looking at stocks overall today, we could see some selling on Wall Street, looking like some red arrows pointing downward. That's what futures are indicating anyway.

Chiron Corporation, one company in focus. As you were saying earlier, the company's executives last night hedging about whether they're going to be able to return to selling flu vaccine in the United States next year. So there's some concern there.

Meanwhile, giving some profit numbers, excluding some charges relating to various acquisitions, Chiron earned $49 million, or 26 cents a share versus 60 cents a share in the year-ago period. The stock has lost a lot of ground, down from $45 to about $31 in the past week or so.

Carol -- back to you.

LIN: Wow! All right, thanks very much, Carrie. And I do shopping for my colleagues during the holiday season.

All right, Britain's Prince Harry got into a scuffle with photographers outside a London nightclub, and you're looking at some of the pictures here. We hear that Prince Harry was actually hit in the face by a camera. And a photographer, the one that Prince Harry is up against right there, complained that he got a cut lip, and he's actually thinking about filing charges and maybe even a lawsuit in this case.

Prince Harry was coming out of a nightclub at about 3:00 in the morning when he was surrounded by photographers. According to this photographer who was allegedly injured, Prince Harry got in his car, but then jumped back out and, according to this photographer, attacked him.

So we'll see what happens. You know, Prince Harry is third in line for the British throne, so obviously a lot at stake here. No girlfriend in sight there, but we'll keep an eye on this story.

In the meantime, we're going to check in with Bill and Soledad in Chicago for a look at what's coming up on "AMERICAN MORNING."

Good morning, guys.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Carol.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you, Carol.

HEMMER: Good morning. Our tour continues here in Chicago. We're with a very good friend of ours behind us. We're going to introduce you a bit later. But as our tour continues, we're also going to talk about politics now, 12 days away. How nasty will this election get? Will it really end after Election Day? We'll talk to Liz Cheney this morning and also Mike McCurry (ph) from both sides coming up.

O'BRIEN: Also, here's a headline I think a lot of people are waking up, either shocked or already know that the Red Sox beat the Yankees. Boston is now closer to ending their curse. Fans here, of course, know about curses. So how does the Cubs curse compare to the Red Sox curse? We're going to talk with a local sportscaster this morning.

HEMMER: And all around this city, they have a lot of sympathy for Boston. O'BRIEN: They do.

HEMMER: And a lot of support, too.

O'BRIEN: I have not actually found one Yankee fan here in Chicago yet.

HEMMER: I think you're right about there. Actually...

O'BRIEN: But hope springs eternal.

HEMMER: Jim Belushi is not a Yankee fan. He's a native son of Chicago and tells us today what we should see and do while we're in town. But time is running out, isn't it?

O'BRIEN: Yes.

HEMMER: Today is Thursday, tomorrow the last day here at the Adler Planetarium behind us, but today we're at the Great Field Museum, and it is truly great, too. So we'll let you know all about it coming up at the top of the hour -- Carol.

LIN: Looks good. Bill, your friend needs a little meat on his bones, huh?

HEMMER: Oh, you think so?

LIN: Yes, I think so. Anyway...

HEMMER: Hey, Carol, he hasn't eaten in a while.

LIN: Yes, we all need a good meal once in a while. Soledad, welcome back, by the way. You look great.

O'BRIEN: Thank you so much. Thanks.

LIN: It's great to have you back.

O'BRIEN: Thanks.

LIN: All right. And we'll see you guys shortly.

HEMMER: OK.

LIN: Coming up on "AMERICAN MORNING."

Well, they used to be dinner conversation taboos, religion and politics, but this election year they're both often front and center. President Bush has always been very outspoken about his faith, and in 2000 he carried 62 percent of the regular churchgoing vote. And Senator John Kerry has been more outspoken about his beliefs in the last few weeks.

But what about politics in the pulpit and from the pulpit? Is there a place for political discussion on the pews? Our guests are the Reverend Billy McCormick with The Christian Coalition and Robert Boston, spokesman for Americans United for the Separation of Church and State.

Good to have you both very early this morning.

ROBERT BOSTON, AMERICANS UNITED: Thanks.

BILLY MCCORMICK, THE CHRISTIAN COALITION: Thank you.

LIN: Dr. McCormick, are you asking different congregants to vote one way or another when it comes to this election?

MCCORMICK: No, we are giving out voter guides, which will instruct the people as to the stands taken by the candidates. And then we insist that they make up their own minds as to who they will vote for.

LIN: Are there any specifics, though? I mean, when you talk about, for example, stem cell research or abortion, the candidates' views on that, how is it worded in these brochures?

MCCORMICK: Well, it's worded in such a way that it is as nonpartisan as we can make them. We are a nonpartisan organization, and the questions are phrased in such a manner as to be just that.

LIN: OK. Even though Pat Robertson, your partner, has been pretty vocal about his support for President Bush as well as his personal relationship? I mean, that's got to have an influence on congregants, too.

MCCORMICK: Well, actually as individuals, we can support whomever we wish. And Pat Robertson and I both support President Bush. But we don't recommend him from the pulpits.

LIN: All right.

MCCORMICK: When I was a young preacher, I could do this, but not in this day.

LIN: Well, separation of church and state has been around for a while.

Robert Boston, isn't it important, though -- it is important for many people that they judge a candidate based on their morals, their character, their values. So isn't religion just another facet of that? Isn't it important that people understand how their community feels about those things as well to vote on these important issues coming up?

BOSTON: Sure, sure. And a society as religious as ours is, no one would expect that there wouldn't be an influence from religion on politics. There's a right way and a wrong way to do that. The Christian Coalition voter guides are partisan. They're Bush re- election material and are not accurate.

LIN: What's partisan about them?

BOSTON: Well, if you look at them, there are 15 issues on that list. And on five of them, John Kerry is listed as giving no response, which would lead you to believe that he responded to the other 10. But, in fact, he didn't respond to any of them. The Christian Coalition made up those answers. They're not accurate. They are designed to put him in a negative light.

I've studied these guides extensively now since the Coalition was founded. I've written about them. They are partisan attack material. And that in 2000, The Christian Coalition actually put out a voter's guide during the primary campaign season that made John McCain look as liberal as Ted Kennedy, because they wanted to help George Bush.

This material has no business being in our houses of worship. In fact, I think puts a church's tax exemption at risk to even hand it out.

LIN: Well, Robert, the legalities of it aside, let me ask you this. I mean, polls show that the president is preferred by some 80 percent of white evangelical Christians. So aren't these pamphlets just preaching to the choir? What's the damage there?

BOSTON: Well, The Christian Coalition has been trying to get them more widely distributed. They want to get them out of the churches and into other areas. But I still think even if they're only preaching to the choir, there is a significant moral dimension here we need to look at. Should churches be involved in this sort of nasty partisan attack? Houses of worship are supposed to be a little bit better than just another unit out there doing partisan hackwork.

Aside from the legal issues, there is a moral issue that our religious leaders need to look at when they're being asked to handle this type of partisan material.

LIN: Dr. McCormick, partisan material. That's what Robert is calling it.

MCCORMICK: Well, Americans United...

LIN: And, you know, in violation, frankly, of federal law when it comes to IRS tax exemptions for your organization.

MCCORMICK: Well, we operate within the regulations of the IRS. We're just not going to operate within the regulations of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State. I was a member of Americans United when it was Protestants and Other Americans United for the Separation of Church and State.

LIN: Where does your literature draw the line, then? How is it that your literature...

MCCORMICK: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

LIN: How is it that your literature and your proselytizing when it comes to issues important to this election, how do you stay within the bounds of the IRS?

MCCORMICK: Well, we are in -- we're working with...

LIN: That you're not a partisan organization?

MCCORMICK: We're working with the IRS actually. And everything that we put out is such that we have worked it out. And so we stay in communication with the IRS actually.

And so this is just a scare tactic by Americans United. They want to be the official regulator of the church and the Christian religion. And when I knew it back in the early days when it first started, it was not an anti-Christ organization. But now it has assumed that kind of posture.

LIN: Dr. Billy McCormick, I didn't hear anything from Robert Boston that indicated he was anti-Christ. But more to come on this issue. Thank you very much, Robert Boston and Dr. Billy McCormick. I wish we had more time.

BOSTON: Thank you.

LIN: All right. Your news, money, weather and sports. It is now 48 past the hour, 12 minutes to the hour. Here's what's all new this morning.

At least 39 people have been killed by a powerful typhoon in Japan. The storm caused massive flooding and mudslides in rural areas. It is the 10th typhoon to hit Japan this year.

And in money, Qwest Communications has reportedly agreed to pay $250 million to settle a fraud investigation by the SEC. The AP reports Qwest was being investigated for allegedly inflating revenue and trying to cover it up.

Now in culture, Wal-Mart has a problem with "Jon Stewart and The Daily Show." "America, the Book," which was written by "The Daily Show's" writers, will not be sold at Wal-Mart stores, because it includes nudity. The book has fake nude pictures of the Supreme Court justices.

In sports, the impossible became possible. The Red Sox beat the Yankees in game seven of the American League championship series. They are the first team in baseball history to come back from a three game deficit to win a series.

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LIN: When we come back, he wasn't just the chairman of the board; he was also a friend and a family guy. I'm going to speak to the author of a new book that takes a different approach to revealing a different side to "old blue eyes."

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LIN: And we get a kick out of Frank. Many of us would agree that Frank Sinatra is a national treasure. And now his family wants to share some of the late singer's own treasures with his legions of fans. The family is publishing a book and music CD with never-before- seen pictures and recordings from the chairman of the board. That's Frank's nickname.

Joining me now is Sinatra historian and author, Charles Pignone.

Charles, you were practically a kid when you first hooked up with the Sinatra family. What were you, what, 18 years old?

CHARLES PIGNONE, AUTHOR, "THE SINATRA TREASURES": Yes, I was about 18 years old when I first...

LIN: How did you meet him?

PIGNONE: I him him at a concert in Atlantic City in 1985, and began running his fan club then. And probably the last decade of his career I went to about 500 of his concerts.

LIN: Wow! And in this book that you helped -- really you helped take part in it with the family. I mean, it reads like a family album. It actually has these envelopes within the book where people can actually pull out copies of original keepsakes.

PIGNONE: Correct. Hence, it's called "The Sinatra Treasures." Each chapter has a treasure in it, such as this is the original program from the Kennedy inaugural gala. We have this reprinted in the book. Frank produced the inaugural gala for John F. Kennedy in 1961. Also on the CD in the book, we have a recording. He did a special song, "High Hopes for Kennedy." And this is the first time it's ever been released on CD. It was only released and played during the campaign.

LIN: Do you have something that's actually personal to Frank Sinatra? I mean, something that was his and his alone?

PIGNONE: That's in the book?

LIN: No, that you have with you, because I know you brought some things with you.

PIGNONE: Oh, yes, we have this. These are the hankies that were made up that Frank would give out during the concerts. In 1985, it was decided so many people were giving him flowers and gifts that he would load his pockets up with these hankies that had his picture on it. And he would usually put four or five of these in his jacket pocket, and during the concert when somebody would give him flowers he would pull them out and give them that hankie.

LIN: That's pretty cool. In my hand here I have something here. It looks like a copy of a Western Union telegraph, and it's from Grace Kelly to Frank Sinatra.

PIGNONE: Right.

LIN: "Congratulations. I am so happy and thrilled for you." What was this about?

PIGNONE: Well, that was when he won the Oscar from for here to eternity -- "From Here to Eternity." And actually there was a whole envelope. Sinatra kept all of the telegrams and letters he received from people around the world thanking him and congratulating him for winning that.

LIN: All of this memorabilia, I mean, you publish in the book that if you printed everything in the entire collection, the book would weigh 1,000 pounds. How did you edit down what you finally decided to put in this album and the family decided?

PIGNONE: Well, the man had a 60-year career, so you can imagine there was letters from every president from FDR until Bill Clinton. What we did was we selected about 150 items, and the publisher and myself picked what we thought would be most appealing for the average fan to see in this book. But as I said, there were so many pieces of mementos and memorabilia that we could do five volumes.

LIN: And you might. You may still, huh?

PIGNONE: Maybe. Maybe.

LIN: Charles, thanks so much.

PIGNONE: Thank you.

LIN: "The Sinatra Treasures: Intimate Photos, Mementos and Music." The book certainly lives up to the title.

PIGNONE: Thank you.

LIN: All right. We've got much more straight ahead on DAYBREAK.

Here's your chance also to win a DAYBREAK coffee mug. Today's coffee quiz questions: Do consumers plan to spend more or less during the holidays this year?

We've got much more straight ahead.

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LIN: It's been fun this morning. I'm Carol Lin at CNN's global headquarters. "AMERICAN MORNING" starts right now.

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