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Bush to Visit Coveted Pennsylvania; John Kerry Hunting for Votes; Soldier Sentenced in Abu Ghraib Prison Scandal

Aired October 21, 2004 - 11:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We have a busy hour unfolding here in Washington, around the country and around the world.
Down the stretch they come. Twelve days before the presidential election, George W. Bush and John F. Kerry hitting hard at each other. But are their messages really getting through to voters right now?

Also, he admitted his role in abusing Iraqi prisoners. Today, the highest ranking soldier charged. A staff sergeant learned his punishment.

All that, much more in the hour ahead. First, though, some other headlines "Now in the News."

Britain agrees to a U.S. request to bolster coalition forces near Baghdad. About 850 British soldiers are to redeploy from the South to free up more Americans for possible moves on insurgent hotbeds such as Falluja.

The Boston Red Sox will play in the World Series after a victory celebration in the House that Ruth built. A lopsided win over the rival New York Yankees capped a record-setting comeback from three games down in a playoff series. The Sox World Series opponent will be the Cardinals or the Asters, whichever team wins tonight.

And Olympian Paul Hamm can keep his gold medal. Today, an arbitration panel rejected the South Korean appeal of Hamm's controversial triumph in the all-around gymnastics event. At a news conference in Switzerland, Hamm told reporters he's relieved it's all over.

Before the day is over, four key states will get visits from the two major presidential candidates. Today's targets the battleground states of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Minnesota and Wisconsin. President Bush will hit Pennsylvania today on yet another push for the state's coveted bounty, 21 electoral votes.

We'll start our coverage this hour. CNN's Suzanne Malveaux, she's standing by at the White House -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, just moments ago President Bush left the White House with one of his daughters, Barbara. They are heading to Pennsylvania. They'll make two stops, one in Downington and one in Hershey. Barbara is actually going to introduce her father in the first event. As you know, of course, Pennsylvania a key state for a Bush win. It was yesterday the president focused on the Midwest states. But, of course, those top battleground states, Ohio, Florida and, of course, Pennsylvania, is what this Bush campaign will be focusing on.

Now, what we are told is that the president is going to talk about the need for medical liability reform. He is also going to talk about his health care plan. Even his Bush aides say that there are focus groups that show that this is the one issue, the health care plan, that seems to be gaining some traction, particularly among female voters. That is something that they want to set up a contrast between President Bush's plan.

They say it's focused on the individual having control of their plan. And they portray Kerry's plan as one that is controlled by the government. The Kerry camp, of course, disagreeing with that characterization. But those are the big issues that they're going to focus on today. Also, should let you know as well that the president is going to be meeting with the arch bishop of Philadelphia, of course, to court that all-important Catholic vote -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Suzanne, there was a rare, emotional bipartisan Bill signing at the White House today. Tell our viewers what happened.

MALVEAUX: The president signed the Garrett Lee Smith Memorial Act. And what that was essentially is it's named after Garrett Lee Smith. He is a young man who committed suicide last year. He is the son of Senator Gordon Smith of Oregon.

There was a piece of legislation that gives millions of dollars for suicide prevention, particularly among youth. The president attended, the senator attended, along with his wife, their two children, as well as a bipartisan effort.

Senator Ted Kennedy was there. Many of them saying that, look, they appreciate the fact that it was for a good cause. They also appreciated the fact that it was a bipartisan moment in such a partisan campaign -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Senator Gordon Smith of Oregon, a well-liked member of the U.S. Senate. Thanks very much, Suzanne Malveaux, at the White House.

After watching his Red Sox eliminate the New York Yankees, Senator Kerry started today hunting for votes in Ohio, literally. On Election Day, Ohio will deliver 20 electoral votes, and it's one of those states Kerry really needs to win.

CNN's Kelly Wallace standing by live in Columbus with more.

Kelly, when I say he was hunting for votes, we really mean it, don't we?

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You are exactly right, Wolf. He was hunting, literally, on a hunting outing earlier this morning. This campaign ever mindful of campaign 2000. And that is when political observers say if Al Gore had done more to court the more than seven million hunters in key battleground states, well, then he might be president today. And so that explains why Senator Kerry was up very early this morning in northeastern Ohio.

Cameras only able to capture the very end of this hunting trip. Our intrepid reporters on the scene telling us that four Canada geese were killed, 28 rounds fired.

All of this for John Kerry to try and show that he is a regular guy, a life-long gun owner and hunter himself, trying to appeal to those voters who might have concerns about Democrats when it comes to the gun issue, but who are also concerned about jobs and the economy. And we can tell you the National Rifle Association trying to prevent gun owners from backing John Kerry. New ads, including one running in Ohio today, saying that John Kerry is no friend of the second amendment.

But there are two other groups you can say John Kerry will be trying to target today. One group, very, very easy for him, baseball lovers. In particular, lovers of the Boston Red Sox.

The senator let cameras come into his hotel room yesterday as he was very happy to watch the Red Sox hit hit after hit and get run after run to win against the New York Yankees. In fact, earlier today he told reporters he is still giddy about the victory. And you can bet we will hear him talk about the Red Sox today.

A final group, though, the senator trying to target, women and middle class swing voters. What is likely to be a very emotional moment here in Columbus, Ohio, when Dana Reeve, the wife of the late actor Chris Reeve introduces Senator Kerry here, as the senator goes on to talk about embryonic stem cell research.

Kerry advisors believe this could be a sleeper issue in this campaign, something that could turn around undecided voters and have them back Senator Kerry. You have another perspective, though. You have social conservatives who are very concerned about this issue and who could go out and rally for President Bush on this.

Wolf, it's interesting, though. As there is more and more discussion about stem cell research, the Bush-Cheney campaign says it wants to, in its words, "set the record straight," trying to make the case that President Bush is the first and only president whoever allowed federal funding for embryonic stem cell research -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Kelly Wallace, in Columbus, Ohio. Kelly, thanks very much.

This additional note. John Kerry's wife has issued a public apology for suggesting in an interview that the first lady, Laura Bush, never had a, "real job." Here's the written statement of Teresa Heinz Kerry.

"I had forgotten that Mrs. Bush had worked as a schoolteacher and librarian. There couldn't be a more important job than teaching our children. I appreciate and honor Mrs. Bush's service to the country as first lady, and am sincerely sorry I had not remembered her important work in the past." That the written statement of Teresa Heinz Kerry.

On that note, let's turn to our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield, who is joining us now live from New York.

There are several issues I want to get to, Jeff. First of all, this issue of the apology from Mrs. Heinz Kerry to Laura Bush, does it have political fallout?

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: You know, I was remembering back to 1992, when Hillary Clinton commented in her career as a lawyer, said, "I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies." And that caused some flak, seemed to be demeaning people who were stay-at-home moms.

I think it's part of a -- of a small but real problem in the Kerry campaign. If you're trying to figure out whether you can warm up to John Kerry, I think it's undeniable fact that Laura Bush is just easier first lady type to feel comfortable with than Teresa Heinz Kerry, whether because of here accent, here -- she has very strong political convictions, she's got a lot of money.

I think the apology was the right way to lance that boil. I cannot imagine a whole lot of people voting on that issue.

But in a broader sense of, I just -- can I warm up to this guy, is he my kind of guy, I think that's part of what has -- you know, it's sort of a burden that the Kerry campaign carries. A lot of people love this woman because she's outspoken, but others don't.

BLITZER: And there's some Republicans, some Bush-Cheney supporters are already saying there's a pattern here. First, the Democratic candidate mentions the whole issue of the lesbian daughter of the Cheneys to try supposedly to score political points. Now Mrs. Teresa Heinz Kerry is throwing out this notion that Mrs. Bush never, had a "real job."

And they go further. They say even if she didn't have a "real job," she's been a mother all of these years. And that in and of itself is probably the hardest job out there.

GREENFIELD: Well, I'd observe two quick things. I think the Kerry campaign at times shows a kind of a tinnier to language that can bother people. But the idea that the Bush people are attacking the Kerry people, I think that's sort of -- that's not even dog bites man.

That's dog eats bone. I mean, it's not exactly a shock to me that the Bush campaign would try to make political mileage out of -- out of a comment that the other side made. So, you know, there you are.

BLITZER: We'll leave it there. Let's move on to another issue, the whole issue of John Kerry going hunting today. We just saw the video of this. Does he really think that NRA supporters who are really strong advocates of guns are going to support him?

GREENFIELD: I don't know. I mean, look, Bill Clinton said right after last election that he thought guns cost Al Gore, probably cost him West Virginia, might have cost him in Ohio and Missouri. The NRA is a powerful organization and they, for one, are spending a whole lot of money saying, look, this image of John Kerry hunting done make up for his votes.

But there's also a part, Wolf -- you know this full well -- that people often do react on images. I thought the picture of Kerry watching a ball game, drinking beer out of a bottle, I'm not suggesting that was contrived, but it's the kind of thing that people look at and go, "Oh, yeah, that's what I was doing last night."

But I can't answer that question. I -- look, nothing a candidate does less than two weeks before election is because he suddenly decides he has an urge to go hunting. Somebody thought this would be a good political idea.

I think the gun owners are going to vote very heavily for George W. Bush. And the gun control people are going to vote very heavily for John Kerry. And these pictures are at the margins, at best, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. There's going to be a dramatic picture on Monday, when former President Bill Clinton gets out of his recuperation from quadruple bypass surgery and actually starts to campaign once again for John Kerry at this late moment. You think that could have an impact?

GREENFIELD: Yes, this is really -- this is a really interesting one, I think. Four years ago, the Gore campaign was very reluctant to deploy President Clinton. Some people thought that was an Oedipal issue, you know, Al Gore did not -- wanted to show he didn't need the father figure to beat him.

But the gore campaign people told me that their problem was every time Bill Clinton showed up, Al Gore's numbers went down. That while he was great with the base, Independent voters, voters in the middle, still resented the behavior or misbehavior of Bill Clinton and held it against Gore.

I do think this time, with four years distance, Clinton as an asset is much stronger than Clinton as a liability. And remember, Wolf, we're all talking about how marginal this decision is going to be.

Unless something really weird happens over the next 10 days, this is going to come down to a relative handful of votes. And to the extent that Bill Clinton can drive up voter turnout, whether it's in big cities, I think a lot of people -- I heard James Carville say this -- would love to see him go down to Arkansas, where the Democrats think they have an outside chance of pulling off a surprise upset.

This is one where I think, unlike some of these other issues, it really could make a marginal difference. But in this election, marginal stuff may wind up determining who wins and who loses. BLITZER: Let's switch gears from politics to baseball.

GREENFIELD: Ah.

BLITZER: I think all of our viewers by now know you're an ardent New York Yankees fan. And we're sorry to hear -- we're sorry for you, of course, by what happened last night, the New York Yankees choking, as they obviously did. But let's talk a little bit about the possibility that there could be a Houston Astros-Boston Red Sox World Series.

GREENFIELD: Well, yes, depending on what happens tonight, there could be a World Series between Texas, where George W. Bush is from, and Massachusetts, where John Kerry is from. First of all, all props to the Boston Red Sox. If they're going to break a curse, going from 0-3 to 4-3, they earned this one.

And I've got to tell you, all of the New York flannel-mouthed radio guys are dissing the Yankees. They weren't saying this a few days ago. This was a victory, and they -- and well earned.

The second thing is, I draw one lesson from this. And that is, in one sense, sports loud mouths are just like us political loud mouths. They think they can see the future.

And the fact that -- the fact that the Red Sox were down 0-3 doesn't tell you what did happen anymore than the fact that no Republican could ever win the White House without Ohio tells you what's going to happen on November 2. And there is this urge in both areas to think we can see the future. It's always bogus.

I actually -- and even though I was at the stadium suffering inside, I thought we were seeing an historic event, and I enjoyed it. And terms of us, Wolf, we should take a lesson from all of the people who said the Red Sox were dead.

Do not try to predict what will happen until the voters tell us, remembering that four years ago we got it wrong even after the voters had voted. So that's the lesson I draw from this -- Wolf.

BLITZER: That's a good lesson. And we'll all try to remember it and pay attention to it. But I predict we'll forget about that lesson pretty soon.

GREENFIELD: That's a good prediction.

BLITZER: In any case, Jeff Greenfield is going to be remembering that lesson for a long, long time to come.

Later this hour, Jeff, you'll be interested to know, Charlie Steiner, the voice of the New York Yankees, is going to join us on this program. I'm sure you'll want to stick around for that as well.

GREENFIELD: OK.

BLITZER: A quick reminder to our viewers. An event you'll want to see tonight, it's Paula Zahn's latest town hall meeting on the subject of this presidential election. It will come from the battleground state of Ohio, specifically Clark County, Ohio, beginning here on CNN, 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 5:00 Pacific. "PAULA ZAHN NOW," prime-time politics, a town hall meeting in Ohio tonight.

Costly misconduct for one U.S. soldier. He's sentenced for his role in the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal. We'll have details. Barbara Starr's standing by.

Also, the political battleground state of Florida. It was critical in the outcome of the 2000 election. This year, almost certainly no different.

Coming up, Congressman Mark Foley, he's a Republican. And Robert Wexler, he's a Democrat. They're both from Florida. They'll join me live.

And a fall-in leader literally. Watch this. Oh, my god! Cuba's Fidel Castro takes a spill and finds himself on the mend. We'll tell you what's going on in Havana.

Look at this again. Watch. Oh.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Another chapter in baseball's most storied rivalry. The Boston Red Sox turn the tables on their greatest nemesis and now look toward the World Series. More on last night's exciting final pennant game. That's coming up later this hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The highest ranking soldier accused of abusing Iraqi prisoners receives his punishment in Baghdad. Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, joining us now live to update us on this court-martial proceeding -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Wolf, Staff Sergeant Ivan "Chip" Frederick, the highest ranking soldiers charged in the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, received his sentence today, eight years in prison. He was sentenced in a military proceeding in a court in Baghdad. A spokesman, a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad, then later came out and discussed the verdict. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The military judge sentenced Staff Sergeant Frederick to be reduced to the grade of Private Enlisted Grade I, to forfeit all pay and allowances, to be dishonorably discharged, and to be confined for 10 years. As a result of the pretrial agreement, Staff Sergeant Frederick's confinement will be reduced to eight years.

(END VIDEO CLIP) STARR: So eight years in prison, after pleading guilty to assault, indecent acts, conspiracy, maltreatment of detainees, dereliction of duty. Sergeant Frederick was one of the senior soldiers on duty during that night shift in Abu Ghraib prison when the abuse occurred.

He admitted responsibility for it, including some of the most brutal abuse pictures seen around the world, the human pyramid, other pictures that were seen. He said he knew it was wrong and he joined in the abuse, that he failed to stop it.

In court today, his defense attorney tried to make the point that the military attorney said set the conditions allowing the abuse to happen and did not properly train the soldiers. Clearly, the judge not buying that argument at all, saying that Sergeant Frederick was an adult and had an ability to make his own decisions. So now he will spend the next eight years in a military prison -- Wolf.

BLITZER: When we say he's the highest ranking soldier charged, staff sergeant, are you saying -- and obviously you are -- this is a fundamental fact -- that no officers, no lieutenants or captains or majors or anyone else has actually been charged with a crime, is that right?

STARR: That is correct. In the Abu Ghraib prison scandal no officers have yet been charged. Now, what we should say is there are a number of people that remain under investigation. We have not been told their names.

There are people still of the officer rank who may face charges or may face administrative reprimand as some of these other investigations wrap up in the weeks and months ahead. But no word on any of that just yet -- Wolf.

BLITZER: What's the latest on another subject, the reservists, those who refused to obey an order and drive a fuel convoy in a dangerous area in the so-called Sunni Triangle?

STARR: Last night, Wolf, in Baghdad, it was announced that a U.S. Army captain was relieved of duty at her request, according to the military. She is the company commander that was in charge of those soldiers in that quarter master unit that refused, where five soldiers apparently refused to drive their fuel convoy.

She is relieved of duty, it is said, at her request. But clearly, this is a sign that the commanders had a lack of confidence in her ability to command her unit.

The investigation continues. No one charged yet. That could happen in the next several days, we are told.

BLITZER: All right. Barbara Starr reporting for us from the Pentagon. Thank you, Barbara, very much.

Elsewhere around the world, a deadly mine blast, a devastating storm and a debilitating fall. In central China, at least 60 coal miners are dead after an underground gas explosion. About 90 others are still trapped inside the mine. Their fate unknown. Nearly 300 miners managed to escape.

On Japan's main island, two dozen people are missing after a powerful typhoon swept ashore, unleashing high winds and heavy rains. At least 65 people were reported killed. More than 200 hurt.

And look at this. Cuba's 78-year-old communist leader is laid up after taking this fall from a stage yesterday.

Medical tests confirm President Fidel Castro broke his left knee and right arm. He indicates he can still carry out his duties and asked Cubans to forgive him -- and I'm quoting now for any suffering his accident has caused them. Fidel Castro taking a pretty bad spill right there.

Wild weather from coast to coast. The latest on the storms in Florida and California, that's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Severe and sometimes deadly across parts of the United States. This funnel cloud -- take a look -- ripped through Florida's Brevard County yesterday, tossing around cars and damaging an office trailer. But there were no reports of any injuries.

In San Diego, the problem is flooding. And forecasters warning there could be light showers again today. Several streets are under water after heavy downpours created havoc across much of southern California yesterday. At lest one death there is blamed on the storm.

Further north, in Yosemite National Park, a hike turned to tragedy for two Japanese climbers. Their bodies were found on a mountain wall yesterday and are to be recovered today. Park rangers say the pair got stranded in a snowstorm that caught the region by surprise.

In the town of Bloomfield, New Jersey, winning the lottery may not bring you riches, but it could help you stay healthy this flu season. Our Mary Snow takes a look at Bloomfield's creative answer to the flu shot shortage.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I'm sorry, we don't have the vaccine at this time.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Calls for flu shots haven't let up in Bloomfield, New Jersey, since the town decided last week to hold a lottery to ration 300 doses of the flu vaccine. Since then, Bloomfield has become the poster child for the flu shot shortage, even finding its way into the presidential campaign.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And just today we learned that a town in New Jersey is being forced to use a lottery system to decide who is going to get a flu shot. GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know there are some here who are worried about the flu season. I want to assure them that our government is doing everything possible.

MAYOR RAYMOND MCCARTHY, BLOOMFIELD, NEW JERSEY: We never anticipated this. This was just a thing that we thought was a normal procedure, let's go. We put it together.

SNOW: Bloomfield's town officials held a strategy session ahead of its unusual vaccine lottery. Unlike neighboring towns, Bloomfield does not buy its vaccines from Chiron, the vaccine maker forced to halt production because of contamination concerns, it gets them from Aventis, the only other vaccine supplier to the U.S. And the first shipment came in before the public health crisis began. The town didn't want to have long lines of senior citizens, like other places, and decided a lottery was being fair.

TREVOR WEIGLE, BLOOMFIELD HEALTH DIRECTOR: It's sad that we have to do this, but good, maybe this is a wake-up call, you know. Maybe we have to do some better planning in our health care system here in America.

SNOW: But some of Bloomfield's 8,000 seniors don't see the lottery working either.

RITA LYNCH, BLOOMFIELD RESIDENT: Never won anything in my whole life. I don't know that I'd win anything medical either.

MUSGRAVE: This is America, we're supposedly the best of the best. And with this, we're not.

SNOW: Some 60 million flu vaccines are expected to be produced by January, compared to last year's 87 million. And health experts say the shortage will continue to drive demand.

IRWIN REDLENER, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: And I think there's no turning back now. We're going to see a whole new dynamic about the demand for flu vaccine from now on like we've never seen before in this country.

Mary Snow, CNN, Bloomfield, New Jersey.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Florida once again in the spotlight, and once again expected to play a major role in deciding who's the next president of the United States.

I'll talk about the issues important to Sunshine State voters. That's coming up. We'll speak live with Congressmen Robert Wexler and Mark Foley. They're both from Florida. They'll join me here.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Since 2000, Florida's taken a number of steps aimed at trying to prevent another election fiasco. This time, more than half of all Florida voters will use touchscreen computerized machines, but the machines don't leave a paper trail in the event of a recount, and that's prompted a lawsuit by Florida Democratic Congressman Robert Wexler. He's joining us here live in Washington. Also Florida Republican Congressman Mark Foley is joining us. He's in West Palm Beach, Florida.

What's wrong without having a paper trail?

REP. ROBERT WEXLER (D), FLORIDA: Florida law requires a manual recount in close races. What we learned in court this week in Ft. Lauderdale is that the electronic machines cannot actually conduct the manual recount as the legislature has required. We also learned in court that these electronic machines have a six times greater failure rate to count votes, compared to the machines, the optical-scan machines, that are in use in the other 52 counties in Florida.

BLITZER: Congressman Foley, what's the big deal? I don't understand. most computers have a printer that you easily can attach to it. Why not have the paper trail?

REP. MARK FOLEY (R), FLORIDA: I have no problem with it. I don't think we're able to do it now apparently, from what I've heard from experts, it's a little late in the game, but I have no problem with a receipt. We get one when we buy things in the grocery store. We get one when we buy things at the restaurants, we get a printed receipt. So I'm happy if that's able to be accomplished.

We changed the voting systems because of demand from the 2000 election. We had punch ballots, optical scanners. We went to these either optical scanners or touchscreens to make it easier and more efficient for voters. So we were hoping we were come to a remedy, but there's a lot of lawsuits indicating maybe we're not quite there yet.

BLITZER: Well, let me bring back Congressman Wexler. Was it a matter of money, that if you have a paper trail, you attach computers, it was simply going to cost more?

WEXLER: Well, actually not, because the 52 counties in Florida that have optical scan machines, it's actually a cheaper machine, and we now know a more reliable machine.

For two years now, I've been pressing our governor, Jeb Bush, to intervene and resolve this matter. I filed the lawsuit after he didn't do anything. A year ago I filed this, in the hope that in the calm of spring we would resolve this, not in the week or two before the election.

The problem is, Florida's supposed to be close, whether it's George Bush or John Kerry that's on a losing end of a close race, they both will have a right to a manual recount, but yet 15 counties won't be able to provide it. What do we do then?

BLITZER: Well, what about that, Congressman Foley? What do Floridians do then?

FOLEY: Well, Robert knows that many experts have suggested that the systems we've deployed, both touchscreen and optical scanners, are far better than the prior system. I would love to find a remedy for the recount. I agree, we have to be certain that a voter's vote counted. We're not objecting to that.

We've allowed supervisors, though, to enact machines that they feel best suit the test of time for their communities. I voted with touchscreen in Palm Beach, County. It's delightfully easy. You push the name of the person you select, you can't vote for two people in the same race, you go through the pages. At the end, it recounts votes you cast for individuals, tells you you're done, and allows you to then finally send that ballot to the future. I understood and I thought I heard that that card that they hand you when you insert it into the machine is a recountable item. I may wrong on that, but I at least know the simple is much easier to use.

BLITZER: Is it recountable item.

WEXLER: Not as it's construed by Florida law in the context of the manual recount. I've asked the court to do two things, enter a long-term remedy and short-term remedy.

BLITZER: When you say short term, you mean, November 2nd, this year?

WEXLER: That's right, that's right, 10 days. The long-term remedy is require a paper trail in all of Florida for 2006. The short-term remedy, provide independent monitors in each supervisors of elections who have computer experience and/or allow two political parties to have poll watchers, so that we can compare, at a minimum, the amount of voters that sign in and show their driver's license to the number of votes that each machine is counting, because in the past, there've been some discrepancies, either way too low, or, in some too cases, too high, where there's clearly a mistake.

BLITZER: Anybody oppose that short-term solution?

WEXLER: Yes, Governor Jeb Bush.

BLITZER: Why?

FOLEY: I'm not sure, Robert, he's objected to poll watchers and things of that nature.

WEXLER: Mark and I are old friends. We agree on a lot of things. For two years, though -- and it's not Mark who's the problem, I've been literal begging the governor and the secretary of state to come in and resolve the problem so that Florida voters have confidence. They've stood stubbornly in the way, and they've simply said the machines are infallible, the ones that we have in Broward, Palm Beach and Miami-Dade and others.

BLITZER: Isn't it normal for every precinct to have poll watchers, if you will, to have Democrats and Republicans who sit there and make sure that everything is OK.

WEXLER: Yes.

FOLEY: Wolf, there may be more poll watchers than voters the way things are going down here in Florida. We've got the word descending on us.

WEXLER: Yes, but with the case of the electronic machines, what they need to know is not only people who have signed in, but how many votes are being registered on those machines throughout the day, and under the situation now, we do not have the opportunity to do that.

FOLEY: We're going to take a break. When we continue this conversation, I'm going to ask Congressman Wexler, Congressman Foley to stand by. I'm also going to ask them if they actually believe there could be a repeat of the fiasco that was Florida only four years ago.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Little update now on that uproar over Teresa Heinz Kerry suggesting yesterday in "USA Today," the newspaper, that she would be a different first lady than Mrs. Bush because Mrs. Bush supposedly never had, quote, "a real job." Mrs. Heinz Kerry later apologized, saying she forgot that Mrs. Bush was a librarian, a schoolteacher. She's also a mother, of course, which in and of itself is a real job.

Today, just a few moments ago, Mrs. Bush, the first lady, said this -- and let me read it specifically. She said, in asking for her reaction to the apology from Teresa Heinz Kerry, she said, "It didn't mater to me. It didn't hurt my feelings. It was perfectly all right that she apologized. She didn't have to apologize. I know how tough it is, and actually I know those trick questions." Laura Bush being very gracious and generous.

Let's continue our conversation with two members of the United States Congress: Robert Wexler is a Democrat; Mark Foley is a Republican. Let me get your reaction to what Mrs. Bush just said, Robert Wexler.

WEXLER: Well, it was very gracious. Mrs. Bush handled it, I think, as well as anybody could. And it shows what kind of a person she is.

BLITZER: What about -- any reaction from you, Congressman Foley?

I think we have a little technical problem with the satellite with Congressman Foley. We'll pick him up, get back to it in just a moment. We'll get that out of the way.

Is there going to be a fiasco in Florida this time around, Congressman Wexler?

WEXLER: I hope not.

BLITZER: What do you think?

WEXLER: I think we've already had problems which indicate what may happen on Election Day.

For instance, we started early voting. And I encourage all Floridians to go and vote early. We started it this week and there were tests, and it turned out last week when they were testing it that some of the machines in Palm Beach County didn't work. Why? Because they were stored in places where the heat got so hot during the hurricanes, the air-conditioning went off. And it turned out these computers need to be in colder spots.

The problem is, when these machines malfunction, there's no backup system. That's why I filed this lawsuit in the first place, to provide safety and security so that Floridians know that when they cast their vote, it will be counted right and, if need be, we can recount it manually correctly.

BLITZER: Because over these past four years, Florida -- the State of Florida, the federal government, local communities -- they have spent a ton of money...

WEXLER: Yes.

BLITZER: ... and spent an enormous amount of time working to make sure the problems with the punch-card ballots and the butterflies that we all saw, those hanging chads four years ago, would never happen again. And you're now saying it's very possible we could see that happening again?

WEXLER: Well, in some ways it could be worse. As bad as the chads were, at least we had something to look at, as silly as it was, people looking up into the sky and seeing if a chad had moved. Now, with the electronic machines, there's nothing to look at. The information is in cyberspace. And what the machine can do will not be helpful in a close race.

BLITZER: Isn't there a hard drive that you can go to and check it out?

WEXLER: Well, what can you check out? If I'm at the machine and I press John Kerry but it records George Bush, I the voter have no clue that it's happened. What to you do after the fact? These are secret ballots.

What happens if 409 people sign in to vote in a precinct, but the machines at the precinct calculate 512? Well, which ones don't count?

BLITZER: So, you're saying that it even could be worse than it was four years ago. That's a remote -- a tiny possibility.

WEXLER: I hope not.

BLITZER: You hope it won't be worse, obviously. WEXLER: I hope it won't be.

BLITZER: If the election in Florida were today, who would win?

WEXLER: I think John Kerry by a hair, because the intensity is so high on the Democratic side, the turnout in Broward and Palm Beach Counties is going to be so enormous, I think the Democrats, John Kerry, comes out of Broward and Palm Beach Counties with about a 400,000 vote margin. That's tough to make up.

BLITZER: We've reestablished contact with Mark Foley, the Republican congressman from Florida.

If the election were held today, who do you think would win, Congressman Foley?

FOLEY: I feel comfortable George Bush is doing an excellent job after the hurricanes. His brother's popularity is soaring. The president's connecting with voters. He's going to be here again on Saturday in Fort Myers. And I believe, based on the polling data we've seen, he's at least three to four points ahead.

BLITZER: Three to four points ahead? You accept that, Congressman...

WEXLER: No. The last poll I saw was 48-48. John Kerry will be in Boca Raton on Sunday. I'll be with him. John Kerry's being very strong on prescription drugs, Middle East and his support for Israel. I think John Kerry is going to bring this home.

BLITZER: But among your Jewish constituents, a lot of them are saying, you know what? George W. Bush has been a very strong supporter of Israel.

WEXLER: John Kerry has a 100 percent voting record in support of Israel. He's been incredibly outspoken in terms of stopping the financial source of terror from Saudi Arabia, which endangers Israel. The message is coming home. I think an overwhelming majority of Jewish Americans will be with John Kerry.

BLITZER: You've got a lot of Jewish constituents in your district as well, Congressman Foley. What are you hearing?

FOLEY: Wolf, I'm hearing a lot of support for the president. This is the first president that has not welcomed Yasser Arafat into the White House. Mr. Kerry did have some contradictions over the fence. He said to the Palestinians a fence is an impediment to peace. He said to the Israelis this is a good idea for your own security. He's conflicted himself on Helms-Burton with the Cuban community.

So, I think he has a little bit of a problem. And then the statement Mrs. Kerry made I think infuriates women here in Florida that are homemakers, that believe that is a job, a noble profession, as is teaching and being a librarian. I do think Mrs. Bush was absolutely correct in saying put this aside, let's move on to the issues. BLITZER: We're going to have to go. I'll give you 10 seconds, Congressman Wexler.

WEXLER: On the fence, it was President Bush who wavered. John Kerry was a prime sponsor of the Syrian Accountability Act; the president opposed it, initially. John Kerry spoke out against the awful comments of the Saudi Arabian crown prince when he said Zionists were the cause of terror in Saudi Arabia. The president was mum.

BLITZER: We'll have a continuation of this debate down the road.

FOLEY: I hope so.

BLITZER: Two good members of Congress from Florida, Robert Wexler, Mark Foley. Thanks to both of you for joining us.

FOLEY: Thanks to both of you.

BLITZER: And let's hope and pray that we don't have a repeat of that Florida fiasco on November 2nd. But of course, we'll all be watching very, very closely. Thanks to both of you for joining us.

As one newspaper in New York put it, hell freezes over. Sports' biggest rivalry, perhaps, writes another chapter for the history books. But this time, the finale has a different hero. More on last night's historic game seven with New York Yankees broadcaster Charlie Steiner. He'll join us live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CURT SCHILLING, PITCHER, BOSTON RED SOX: We just beat the best organization in sports history to get to the World Series in unprecedented fashion. And what an appropriate group of guys to do it.

THEO EPSTEIN, GENERAL MANAGER, BOSTON RED SOX: This one is for all the great Red Sox teams that couldn't quite beat the Yankees, '49, '78, our team last year that fell short against these guys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The Red Sox have done what many thought could not be done, overcome a three-game deficit to take a place in history and win a berth in the World Series. In the process they brushed back the Bambino and the legend of the curse. Their victory made all the sweeter because it came at Yankee Stadium.

This is just a sampling of New York sentiment out this morning. Joining us now with his perspective, the voice of the New York Yankees, Charlie Steiner.

Charlie, thanks very much for joining us. Give us your perspective, this was an enormous, an enormous comeback. CHARLIE STEINER, VOICE OF THE YANKEES: It was historic, it has never happened before. Never before in baseball history had a team been down three games to none so much as to force a game seven, let alone winning game seven at Yankee Stadium, you know, from -- as the liner said, "from cursed to first."

The Red Sox at the end of the day simply outplayed the Yankees. And the Yankees were just three outs away from completing a sweep at Fenway Park last weekend. Red Sox got off the mat and they were terrific from that point on.

BLITZER: How did they do it?

STEINER: Well, they're a gritty, gutty bunch. Understand that these two teams have faced one another, since beginning of the 2003 season, 52 times: and 27 types the Red Sox won, 25 times the Yankees won. Of course, last year the Yankees won with the Aaron Boone home run. And that's what makes this rivalry so great, these two teams are so close, not only geographically, but historically, and last night the Red Sox pulled off an historic upset.

BLITZER: I guess no one will say the curse is over with until we see what happens in the World Series is that right?

STEINER: I think that's fair to say. But on the other hand I think every Red Sox fan and every fan of Boston wanted to go through the Yankees and Yankee Stadium before finally winning the World Series, something, of course, they hadn't done since 1918, and Yankee fans are always quick to tell Red Sox fans, anybody can have a bad century.

BLITZER: Bad century, indeed. The notion of the New York Yankees, certainly the highest priced, the greatest talent, maybe ever put together on one baseball team, losing four straight games in a series like this, it's almost unbelievable, isn't it?

STEINER: It really is. And I don't think anybody expected it. That's where you have to give credit to the Red Sox. Again, they were three outs away from elimination over the weekend at Fenway Park. And once they got that momentum going, look, this is a very good team, only three games separated the Yankees and the Red Sox all year.

And the rivalry continued actually this past winter what with the acquisition for the Red Sox of Curt Schilling, who was so great in game six, and then the acquisition for the Yankees of Alex Rodriguez who the Red Sox so dearly wanted. It was just great theater. And that's what the Yankees and Red Sox have been all about.

BLITZER: Handicap a little bit for us, because you know a great deal about baseball, tonight's game between the St. Louis Cardinals and the Houston Astros.

STEINER: I dare not. One of the things you don't want to do in baseball is predict. But, having said that, you've got Roger Clemens on the hill, and what a great story that would be. If Clemens is able to win game seven and then go to Fenway Park in Boston and pitch in the World Series there, what a great story that would be.

So I suppose, just for the theatrics of it all you kind of like the Houston Astros winning on the road. But the fact of the matter is, the Cardinals were best team in baseball all year, they won more games than anybody else and they're playing at home.

BLITZER: So this will be an exciting game tonight, as all of us know as well. Give us a flavor, because you're a New Yorker, spent most of your life in New York City, how depressed are Yankee fans right now?

STEINER: If you suggest that people are like walking into walls and not realizing it, I think that might be one way of looking at it. There's always been this sense of expectation in New York about the Yankees. A, they're going to postseason and, B, they're going to win the World Series. Now they are this catastrophic slump in which they have not won the World Series in four consecutive years. But they had a terrific year. They won 101 games, they drew nearly 4 million people to the Bronx. But they came up a game short. And now it's the Red Sox turn.

BLITZER: Do the Yankees, the management of the Yankees, the whole upper echelon, do they have to rethink their strategy now or do they just go forward with what they have?

STEINER: Oh, there will be changes. Exactly what the changes are, of course, that will be part of the winter theater here in New York. Clearly, the Yankees need more pitching and that was an area that was exposed in the ALCS with the Red Sox and that's the one area I know they want to beef up considerably. So yes, there will be some changes.

BLITZER: Do you, automatically, Charlie Steiner, root for the Red Sox now or for the National League team in the World Series?

STEINER: Oh gee, thanks for asking that one, Wolf. Yes, I've got to tell you, I'm one of those Yankee people who actually likes the Red Sox. They're really a bunch of good guys, they just happen to play for the other team. And they played a terrific series. They had a great season. They're a team with a lot of personality. So I'm one of those New Yorkers, I'm sorry, who actually kind of has a fondness for the Red Sox and I suppose I'll find myself rooting for them.

BLITZER: All right. If you see Jeff Greenfield in the studio over there, our condolences to him as well. I know he's pretty upset right now.

STEINER: He's one of the guys who has been walking into walls I believe.

BLITZER: I think you're handling it though relatively well, Charlie, I must say.

STEINER: It's still early.

BLITZER: Charlie Steiner, a good friend of ours. Thanks very much for joining us.

STEINER: OK, Wolf.

BLITZER: Coming up at the top of the hour, the politics of fear. It's nothing especially new in the race for the White House. But how is this year different than most? We'll take a closer look on "LIVE FROM," that's coming up at the top of the hour. I'll be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: I'll be back later today, every weekday, 5 p.m. Eastern, for "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Among other things, the former head of CIA's clandestine operations will give our David Ensor a rare one-on-one interview. David has a full report. He'll join us, tell us what's on the mind of the former head of the CIA office of clandestine operations.

That's coming up 5 p.m. Eastern later today on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Until then, thanks very much for joining us. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LIVE FROM" with Miles O'Brien, that's coming up next.

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Aired October 21, 2004 - 11:59   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We have a busy hour unfolding here in Washington, around the country and around the world.
Down the stretch they come. Twelve days before the presidential election, George W. Bush and John F. Kerry hitting hard at each other. But are their messages really getting through to voters right now?

Also, he admitted his role in abusing Iraqi prisoners. Today, the highest ranking soldier charged. A staff sergeant learned his punishment.

All that, much more in the hour ahead. First, though, some other headlines "Now in the News."

Britain agrees to a U.S. request to bolster coalition forces near Baghdad. About 850 British soldiers are to redeploy from the South to free up more Americans for possible moves on insurgent hotbeds such as Falluja.

The Boston Red Sox will play in the World Series after a victory celebration in the House that Ruth built. A lopsided win over the rival New York Yankees capped a record-setting comeback from three games down in a playoff series. The Sox World Series opponent will be the Cardinals or the Asters, whichever team wins tonight.

And Olympian Paul Hamm can keep his gold medal. Today, an arbitration panel rejected the South Korean appeal of Hamm's controversial triumph in the all-around gymnastics event. At a news conference in Switzerland, Hamm told reporters he's relieved it's all over.

Before the day is over, four key states will get visits from the two major presidential candidates. Today's targets the battleground states of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Minnesota and Wisconsin. President Bush will hit Pennsylvania today on yet another push for the state's coveted bounty, 21 electoral votes.

We'll start our coverage this hour. CNN's Suzanne Malveaux, she's standing by at the White House -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, just moments ago President Bush left the White House with one of his daughters, Barbara. They are heading to Pennsylvania. They'll make two stops, one in Downington and one in Hershey. Barbara is actually going to introduce her father in the first event. As you know, of course, Pennsylvania a key state for a Bush win. It was yesterday the president focused on the Midwest states. But, of course, those top battleground states, Ohio, Florida and, of course, Pennsylvania, is what this Bush campaign will be focusing on.

Now, what we are told is that the president is going to talk about the need for medical liability reform. He is also going to talk about his health care plan. Even his Bush aides say that there are focus groups that show that this is the one issue, the health care plan, that seems to be gaining some traction, particularly among female voters. That is something that they want to set up a contrast between President Bush's plan.

They say it's focused on the individual having control of their plan. And they portray Kerry's plan as one that is controlled by the government. The Kerry camp, of course, disagreeing with that characterization. But those are the big issues that they're going to focus on today. Also, should let you know as well that the president is going to be meeting with the arch bishop of Philadelphia, of course, to court that all-important Catholic vote -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Suzanne, there was a rare, emotional bipartisan Bill signing at the White House today. Tell our viewers what happened.

MALVEAUX: The president signed the Garrett Lee Smith Memorial Act. And what that was essentially is it's named after Garrett Lee Smith. He is a young man who committed suicide last year. He is the son of Senator Gordon Smith of Oregon.

There was a piece of legislation that gives millions of dollars for suicide prevention, particularly among youth. The president attended, the senator attended, along with his wife, their two children, as well as a bipartisan effort.

Senator Ted Kennedy was there. Many of them saying that, look, they appreciate the fact that it was for a good cause. They also appreciated the fact that it was a bipartisan moment in such a partisan campaign -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Senator Gordon Smith of Oregon, a well-liked member of the U.S. Senate. Thanks very much, Suzanne Malveaux, at the White House.

After watching his Red Sox eliminate the New York Yankees, Senator Kerry started today hunting for votes in Ohio, literally. On Election Day, Ohio will deliver 20 electoral votes, and it's one of those states Kerry really needs to win.

CNN's Kelly Wallace standing by live in Columbus with more.

Kelly, when I say he was hunting for votes, we really mean it, don't we?

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You are exactly right, Wolf. He was hunting, literally, on a hunting outing earlier this morning. This campaign ever mindful of campaign 2000. And that is when political observers say if Al Gore had done more to court the more than seven million hunters in key battleground states, well, then he might be president today. And so that explains why Senator Kerry was up very early this morning in northeastern Ohio.

Cameras only able to capture the very end of this hunting trip. Our intrepid reporters on the scene telling us that four Canada geese were killed, 28 rounds fired.

All of this for John Kerry to try and show that he is a regular guy, a life-long gun owner and hunter himself, trying to appeal to those voters who might have concerns about Democrats when it comes to the gun issue, but who are also concerned about jobs and the economy. And we can tell you the National Rifle Association trying to prevent gun owners from backing John Kerry. New ads, including one running in Ohio today, saying that John Kerry is no friend of the second amendment.

But there are two other groups you can say John Kerry will be trying to target today. One group, very, very easy for him, baseball lovers. In particular, lovers of the Boston Red Sox.

The senator let cameras come into his hotel room yesterday as he was very happy to watch the Red Sox hit hit after hit and get run after run to win against the New York Yankees. In fact, earlier today he told reporters he is still giddy about the victory. And you can bet we will hear him talk about the Red Sox today.

A final group, though, the senator trying to target, women and middle class swing voters. What is likely to be a very emotional moment here in Columbus, Ohio, when Dana Reeve, the wife of the late actor Chris Reeve introduces Senator Kerry here, as the senator goes on to talk about embryonic stem cell research.

Kerry advisors believe this could be a sleeper issue in this campaign, something that could turn around undecided voters and have them back Senator Kerry. You have another perspective, though. You have social conservatives who are very concerned about this issue and who could go out and rally for President Bush on this.

Wolf, it's interesting, though. As there is more and more discussion about stem cell research, the Bush-Cheney campaign says it wants to, in its words, "set the record straight," trying to make the case that President Bush is the first and only president whoever allowed federal funding for embryonic stem cell research -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Kelly Wallace, in Columbus, Ohio. Kelly, thanks very much.

This additional note. John Kerry's wife has issued a public apology for suggesting in an interview that the first lady, Laura Bush, never had a, "real job." Here's the written statement of Teresa Heinz Kerry.

"I had forgotten that Mrs. Bush had worked as a schoolteacher and librarian. There couldn't be a more important job than teaching our children. I appreciate and honor Mrs. Bush's service to the country as first lady, and am sincerely sorry I had not remembered her important work in the past." That the written statement of Teresa Heinz Kerry.

On that note, let's turn to our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield, who is joining us now live from New York.

There are several issues I want to get to, Jeff. First of all, this issue of the apology from Mrs. Heinz Kerry to Laura Bush, does it have political fallout?

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: You know, I was remembering back to 1992, when Hillary Clinton commented in her career as a lawyer, said, "I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies." And that caused some flak, seemed to be demeaning people who were stay-at-home moms.

I think it's part of a -- of a small but real problem in the Kerry campaign. If you're trying to figure out whether you can warm up to John Kerry, I think it's undeniable fact that Laura Bush is just easier first lady type to feel comfortable with than Teresa Heinz Kerry, whether because of here accent, here -- she has very strong political convictions, she's got a lot of money.

I think the apology was the right way to lance that boil. I cannot imagine a whole lot of people voting on that issue.

But in a broader sense of, I just -- can I warm up to this guy, is he my kind of guy, I think that's part of what has -- you know, it's sort of a burden that the Kerry campaign carries. A lot of people love this woman because she's outspoken, but others don't.

BLITZER: And there's some Republicans, some Bush-Cheney supporters are already saying there's a pattern here. First, the Democratic candidate mentions the whole issue of the lesbian daughter of the Cheneys to try supposedly to score political points. Now Mrs. Teresa Heinz Kerry is throwing out this notion that Mrs. Bush never, had a "real job."

And they go further. They say even if she didn't have a "real job," she's been a mother all of these years. And that in and of itself is probably the hardest job out there.

GREENFIELD: Well, I'd observe two quick things. I think the Kerry campaign at times shows a kind of a tinnier to language that can bother people. But the idea that the Bush people are attacking the Kerry people, I think that's sort of -- that's not even dog bites man.

That's dog eats bone. I mean, it's not exactly a shock to me that the Bush campaign would try to make political mileage out of -- out of a comment that the other side made. So, you know, there you are.

BLITZER: We'll leave it there. Let's move on to another issue, the whole issue of John Kerry going hunting today. We just saw the video of this. Does he really think that NRA supporters who are really strong advocates of guns are going to support him?

GREENFIELD: I don't know. I mean, look, Bill Clinton said right after last election that he thought guns cost Al Gore, probably cost him West Virginia, might have cost him in Ohio and Missouri. The NRA is a powerful organization and they, for one, are spending a whole lot of money saying, look, this image of John Kerry hunting done make up for his votes.

But there's also a part, Wolf -- you know this full well -- that people often do react on images. I thought the picture of Kerry watching a ball game, drinking beer out of a bottle, I'm not suggesting that was contrived, but it's the kind of thing that people look at and go, "Oh, yeah, that's what I was doing last night."

But I can't answer that question. I -- look, nothing a candidate does less than two weeks before election is because he suddenly decides he has an urge to go hunting. Somebody thought this would be a good political idea.

I think the gun owners are going to vote very heavily for George W. Bush. And the gun control people are going to vote very heavily for John Kerry. And these pictures are at the margins, at best, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. There's going to be a dramatic picture on Monday, when former President Bill Clinton gets out of his recuperation from quadruple bypass surgery and actually starts to campaign once again for John Kerry at this late moment. You think that could have an impact?

GREENFIELD: Yes, this is really -- this is a really interesting one, I think. Four years ago, the Gore campaign was very reluctant to deploy President Clinton. Some people thought that was an Oedipal issue, you know, Al Gore did not -- wanted to show he didn't need the father figure to beat him.

But the gore campaign people told me that their problem was every time Bill Clinton showed up, Al Gore's numbers went down. That while he was great with the base, Independent voters, voters in the middle, still resented the behavior or misbehavior of Bill Clinton and held it against Gore.

I do think this time, with four years distance, Clinton as an asset is much stronger than Clinton as a liability. And remember, Wolf, we're all talking about how marginal this decision is going to be.

Unless something really weird happens over the next 10 days, this is going to come down to a relative handful of votes. And to the extent that Bill Clinton can drive up voter turnout, whether it's in big cities, I think a lot of people -- I heard James Carville say this -- would love to see him go down to Arkansas, where the Democrats think they have an outside chance of pulling off a surprise upset.

This is one where I think, unlike some of these other issues, it really could make a marginal difference. But in this election, marginal stuff may wind up determining who wins and who loses. BLITZER: Let's switch gears from politics to baseball.

GREENFIELD: Ah.

BLITZER: I think all of our viewers by now know you're an ardent New York Yankees fan. And we're sorry to hear -- we're sorry for you, of course, by what happened last night, the New York Yankees choking, as they obviously did. But let's talk a little bit about the possibility that there could be a Houston Astros-Boston Red Sox World Series.

GREENFIELD: Well, yes, depending on what happens tonight, there could be a World Series between Texas, where George W. Bush is from, and Massachusetts, where John Kerry is from. First of all, all props to the Boston Red Sox. If they're going to break a curse, going from 0-3 to 4-3, they earned this one.

And I've got to tell you, all of the New York flannel-mouthed radio guys are dissing the Yankees. They weren't saying this a few days ago. This was a victory, and they -- and well earned.

The second thing is, I draw one lesson from this. And that is, in one sense, sports loud mouths are just like us political loud mouths. They think they can see the future.

And the fact that -- the fact that the Red Sox were down 0-3 doesn't tell you what did happen anymore than the fact that no Republican could ever win the White House without Ohio tells you what's going to happen on November 2. And there is this urge in both areas to think we can see the future. It's always bogus.

I actually -- and even though I was at the stadium suffering inside, I thought we were seeing an historic event, and I enjoyed it. And terms of us, Wolf, we should take a lesson from all of the people who said the Red Sox were dead.

Do not try to predict what will happen until the voters tell us, remembering that four years ago we got it wrong even after the voters had voted. So that's the lesson I draw from this -- Wolf.

BLITZER: That's a good lesson. And we'll all try to remember it and pay attention to it. But I predict we'll forget about that lesson pretty soon.

GREENFIELD: That's a good prediction.

BLITZER: In any case, Jeff Greenfield is going to be remembering that lesson for a long, long time to come.

Later this hour, Jeff, you'll be interested to know, Charlie Steiner, the voice of the New York Yankees, is going to join us on this program. I'm sure you'll want to stick around for that as well.

GREENFIELD: OK.

BLITZER: A quick reminder to our viewers. An event you'll want to see tonight, it's Paula Zahn's latest town hall meeting on the subject of this presidential election. It will come from the battleground state of Ohio, specifically Clark County, Ohio, beginning here on CNN, 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 5:00 Pacific. "PAULA ZAHN NOW," prime-time politics, a town hall meeting in Ohio tonight.

Costly misconduct for one U.S. soldier. He's sentenced for his role in the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal. We'll have details. Barbara Starr's standing by.

Also, the political battleground state of Florida. It was critical in the outcome of the 2000 election. This year, almost certainly no different.

Coming up, Congressman Mark Foley, he's a Republican. And Robert Wexler, he's a Democrat. They're both from Florida. They'll join me live.

And a fall-in leader literally. Watch this. Oh, my god! Cuba's Fidel Castro takes a spill and finds himself on the mend. We'll tell you what's going on in Havana.

Look at this again. Watch. Oh.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Another chapter in baseball's most storied rivalry. The Boston Red Sox turn the tables on their greatest nemesis and now look toward the World Series. More on last night's exciting final pennant game. That's coming up later this hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The highest ranking soldier accused of abusing Iraqi prisoners receives his punishment in Baghdad. Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, joining us now live to update us on this court-martial proceeding -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Wolf, Staff Sergeant Ivan "Chip" Frederick, the highest ranking soldiers charged in the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, received his sentence today, eight years in prison. He was sentenced in a military proceeding in a court in Baghdad. A spokesman, a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad, then later came out and discussed the verdict. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The military judge sentenced Staff Sergeant Frederick to be reduced to the grade of Private Enlisted Grade I, to forfeit all pay and allowances, to be dishonorably discharged, and to be confined for 10 years. As a result of the pretrial agreement, Staff Sergeant Frederick's confinement will be reduced to eight years.

(END VIDEO CLIP) STARR: So eight years in prison, after pleading guilty to assault, indecent acts, conspiracy, maltreatment of detainees, dereliction of duty. Sergeant Frederick was one of the senior soldiers on duty during that night shift in Abu Ghraib prison when the abuse occurred.

He admitted responsibility for it, including some of the most brutal abuse pictures seen around the world, the human pyramid, other pictures that were seen. He said he knew it was wrong and he joined in the abuse, that he failed to stop it.

In court today, his defense attorney tried to make the point that the military attorney said set the conditions allowing the abuse to happen and did not properly train the soldiers. Clearly, the judge not buying that argument at all, saying that Sergeant Frederick was an adult and had an ability to make his own decisions. So now he will spend the next eight years in a military prison -- Wolf.

BLITZER: When we say he's the highest ranking soldier charged, staff sergeant, are you saying -- and obviously you are -- this is a fundamental fact -- that no officers, no lieutenants or captains or majors or anyone else has actually been charged with a crime, is that right?

STARR: That is correct. In the Abu Ghraib prison scandal no officers have yet been charged. Now, what we should say is there are a number of people that remain under investigation. We have not been told their names.

There are people still of the officer rank who may face charges or may face administrative reprimand as some of these other investigations wrap up in the weeks and months ahead. But no word on any of that just yet -- Wolf.

BLITZER: What's the latest on another subject, the reservists, those who refused to obey an order and drive a fuel convoy in a dangerous area in the so-called Sunni Triangle?

STARR: Last night, Wolf, in Baghdad, it was announced that a U.S. Army captain was relieved of duty at her request, according to the military. She is the company commander that was in charge of those soldiers in that quarter master unit that refused, where five soldiers apparently refused to drive their fuel convoy.

She is relieved of duty, it is said, at her request. But clearly, this is a sign that the commanders had a lack of confidence in her ability to command her unit.

The investigation continues. No one charged yet. That could happen in the next several days, we are told.

BLITZER: All right. Barbara Starr reporting for us from the Pentagon. Thank you, Barbara, very much.

Elsewhere around the world, a deadly mine blast, a devastating storm and a debilitating fall. In central China, at least 60 coal miners are dead after an underground gas explosion. About 90 others are still trapped inside the mine. Their fate unknown. Nearly 300 miners managed to escape.

On Japan's main island, two dozen people are missing after a powerful typhoon swept ashore, unleashing high winds and heavy rains. At least 65 people were reported killed. More than 200 hurt.

And look at this. Cuba's 78-year-old communist leader is laid up after taking this fall from a stage yesterday.

Medical tests confirm President Fidel Castro broke his left knee and right arm. He indicates he can still carry out his duties and asked Cubans to forgive him -- and I'm quoting now for any suffering his accident has caused them. Fidel Castro taking a pretty bad spill right there.

Wild weather from coast to coast. The latest on the storms in Florida and California, that's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Severe and sometimes deadly across parts of the United States. This funnel cloud -- take a look -- ripped through Florida's Brevard County yesterday, tossing around cars and damaging an office trailer. But there were no reports of any injuries.

In San Diego, the problem is flooding. And forecasters warning there could be light showers again today. Several streets are under water after heavy downpours created havoc across much of southern California yesterday. At lest one death there is blamed on the storm.

Further north, in Yosemite National Park, a hike turned to tragedy for two Japanese climbers. Their bodies were found on a mountain wall yesterday and are to be recovered today. Park rangers say the pair got stranded in a snowstorm that caught the region by surprise.

In the town of Bloomfield, New Jersey, winning the lottery may not bring you riches, but it could help you stay healthy this flu season. Our Mary Snow takes a look at Bloomfield's creative answer to the flu shot shortage.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I'm sorry, we don't have the vaccine at this time.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Calls for flu shots haven't let up in Bloomfield, New Jersey, since the town decided last week to hold a lottery to ration 300 doses of the flu vaccine. Since then, Bloomfield has become the poster child for the flu shot shortage, even finding its way into the presidential campaign.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And just today we learned that a town in New Jersey is being forced to use a lottery system to decide who is going to get a flu shot. GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know there are some here who are worried about the flu season. I want to assure them that our government is doing everything possible.

MAYOR RAYMOND MCCARTHY, BLOOMFIELD, NEW JERSEY: We never anticipated this. This was just a thing that we thought was a normal procedure, let's go. We put it together.

SNOW: Bloomfield's town officials held a strategy session ahead of its unusual vaccine lottery. Unlike neighboring towns, Bloomfield does not buy its vaccines from Chiron, the vaccine maker forced to halt production because of contamination concerns, it gets them from Aventis, the only other vaccine supplier to the U.S. And the first shipment came in before the public health crisis began. The town didn't want to have long lines of senior citizens, like other places, and decided a lottery was being fair.

TREVOR WEIGLE, BLOOMFIELD HEALTH DIRECTOR: It's sad that we have to do this, but good, maybe this is a wake-up call, you know. Maybe we have to do some better planning in our health care system here in America.

SNOW: But some of Bloomfield's 8,000 seniors don't see the lottery working either.

RITA LYNCH, BLOOMFIELD RESIDENT: Never won anything in my whole life. I don't know that I'd win anything medical either.

MUSGRAVE: This is America, we're supposedly the best of the best. And with this, we're not.

SNOW: Some 60 million flu vaccines are expected to be produced by January, compared to last year's 87 million. And health experts say the shortage will continue to drive demand.

IRWIN REDLENER, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: And I think there's no turning back now. We're going to see a whole new dynamic about the demand for flu vaccine from now on like we've never seen before in this country.

Mary Snow, CNN, Bloomfield, New Jersey.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Florida once again in the spotlight, and once again expected to play a major role in deciding who's the next president of the United States.

I'll talk about the issues important to Sunshine State voters. That's coming up. We'll speak live with Congressmen Robert Wexler and Mark Foley. They're both from Florida. They'll join me here.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Since 2000, Florida's taken a number of steps aimed at trying to prevent another election fiasco. This time, more than half of all Florida voters will use touchscreen computerized machines, but the machines don't leave a paper trail in the event of a recount, and that's prompted a lawsuit by Florida Democratic Congressman Robert Wexler. He's joining us here live in Washington. Also Florida Republican Congressman Mark Foley is joining us. He's in West Palm Beach, Florida.

What's wrong without having a paper trail?

REP. ROBERT WEXLER (D), FLORIDA: Florida law requires a manual recount in close races. What we learned in court this week in Ft. Lauderdale is that the electronic machines cannot actually conduct the manual recount as the legislature has required. We also learned in court that these electronic machines have a six times greater failure rate to count votes, compared to the machines, the optical-scan machines, that are in use in the other 52 counties in Florida.

BLITZER: Congressman Foley, what's the big deal? I don't understand. most computers have a printer that you easily can attach to it. Why not have the paper trail?

REP. MARK FOLEY (R), FLORIDA: I have no problem with it. I don't think we're able to do it now apparently, from what I've heard from experts, it's a little late in the game, but I have no problem with a receipt. We get one when we buy things in the grocery store. We get one when we buy things at the restaurants, we get a printed receipt. So I'm happy if that's able to be accomplished.

We changed the voting systems because of demand from the 2000 election. We had punch ballots, optical scanners. We went to these either optical scanners or touchscreens to make it easier and more efficient for voters. So we were hoping we were come to a remedy, but there's a lot of lawsuits indicating maybe we're not quite there yet.

BLITZER: Well, let me bring back Congressman Wexler. Was it a matter of money, that if you have a paper trail, you attach computers, it was simply going to cost more?

WEXLER: Well, actually not, because the 52 counties in Florida that have optical scan machines, it's actually a cheaper machine, and we now know a more reliable machine.

For two years now, I've been pressing our governor, Jeb Bush, to intervene and resolve this matter. I filed the lawsuit after he didn't do anything. A year ago I filed this, in the hope that in the calm of spring we would resolve this, not in the week or two before the election.

The problem is, Florida's supposed to be close, whether it's George Bush or John Kerry that's on a losing end of a close race, they both will have a right to a manual recount, but yet 15 counties won't be able to provide it. What do we do then?

BLITZER: Well, what about that, Congressman Foley? What do Floridians do then?

FOLEY: Well, Robert knows that many experts have suggested that the systems we've deployed, both touchscreen and optical scanners, are far better than the prior system. I would love to find a remedy for the recount. I agree, we have to be certain that a voter's vote counted. We're not objecting to that.

We've allowed supervisors, though, to enact machines that they feel best suit the test of time for their communities. I voted with touchscreen in Palm Beach, County. It's delightfully easy. You push the name of the person you select, you can't vote for two people in the same race, you go through the pages. At the end, it recounts votes you cast for individuals, tells you you're done, and allows you to then finally send that ballot to the future. I understood and I thought I heard that that card that they hand you when you insert it into the machine is a recountable item. I may wrong on that, but I at least know the simple is much easier to use.

BLITZER: Is it recountable item.

WEXLER: Not as it's construed by Florida law in the context of the manual recount. I've asked the court to do two things, enter a long-term remedy and short-term remedy.

BLITZER: When you say short term, you mean, November 2nd, this year?

WEXLER: That's right, that's right, 10 days. The long-term remedy is require a paper trail in all of Florida for 2006. The short-term remedy, provide independent monitors in each supervisors of elections who have computer experience and/or allow two political parties to have poll watchers, so that we can compare, at a minimum, the amount of voters that sign in and show their driver's license to the number of votes that each machine is counting, because in the past, there've been some discrepancies, either way too low, or, in some too cases, too high, where there's clearly a mistake.

BLITZER: Anybody oppose that short-term solution?

WEXLER: Yes, Governor Jeb Bush.

BLITZER: Why?

FOLEY: I'm not sure, Robert, he's objected to poll watchers and things of that nature.

WEXLER: Mark and I are old friends. We agree on a lot of things. For two years, though -- and it's not Mark who's the problem, I've been literal begging the governor and the secretary of state to come in and resolve the problem so that Florida voters have confidence. They've stood stubbornly in the way, and they've simply said the machines are infallible, the ones that we have in Broward, Palm Beach and Miami-Dade and others.

BLITZER: Isn't it normal for every precinct to have poll watchers, if you will, to have Democrats and Republicans who sit there and make sure that everything is OK.

WEXLER: Yes.

FOLEY: Wolf, there may be more poll watchers than voters the way things are going down here in Florida. We've got the word descending on us.

WEXLER: Yes, but with the case of the electronic machines, what they need to know is not only people who have signed in, but how many votes are being registered on those machines throughout the day, and under the situation now, we do not have the opportunity to do that.

FOLEY: We're going to take a break. When we continue this conversation, I'm going to ask Congressman Wexler, Congressman Foley to stand by. I'm also going to ask them if they actually believe there could be a repeat of the fiasco that was Florida only four years ago.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Little update now on that uproar over Teresa Heinz Kerry suggesting yesterday in "USA Today," the newspaper, that she would be a different first lady than Mrs. Bush because Mrs. Bush supposedly never had, quote, "a real job." Mrs. Heinz Kerry later apologized, saying she forgot that Mrs. Bush was a librarian, a schoolteacher. She's also a mother, of course, which in and of itself is a real job.

Today, just a few moments ago, Mrs. Bush, the first lady, said this -- and let me read it specifically. She said, in asking for her reaction to the apology from Teresa Heinz Kerry, she said, "It didn't mater to me. It didn't hurt my feelings. It was perfectly all right that she apologized. She didn't have to apologize. I know how tough it is, and actually I know those trick questions." Laura Bush being very gracious and generous.

Let's continue our conversation with two members of the United States Congress: Robert Wexler is a Democrat; Mark Foley is a Republican. Let me get your reaction to what Mrs. Bush just said, Robert Wexler.

WEXLER: Well, it was very gracious. Mrs. Bush handled it, I think, as well as anybody could. And it shows what kind of a person she is.

BLITZER: What about -- any reaction from you, Congressman Foley?

I think we have a little technical problem with the satellite with Congressman Foley. We'll pick him up, get back to it in just a moment. We'll get that out of the way.

Is there going to be a fiasco in Florida this time around, Congressman Wexler?

WEXLER: I hope not.

BLITZER: What do you think?

WEXLER: I think we've already had problems which indicate what may happen on Election Day.

For instance, we started early voting. And I encourage all Floridians to go and vote early. We started it this week and there were tests, and it turned out last week when they were testing it that some of the machines in Palm Beach County didn't work. Why? Because they were stored in places where the heat got so hot during the hurricanes, the air-conditioning went off. And it turned out these computers need to be in colder spots.

The problem is, when these machines malfunction, there's no backup system. That's why I filed this lawsuit in the first place, to provide safety and security so that Floridians know that when they cast their vote, it will be counted right and, if need be, we can recount it manually correctly.

BLITZER: Because over these past four years, Florida -- the State of Florida, the federal government, local communities -- they have spent a ton of money...

WEXLER: Yes.

BLITZER: ... and spent an enormous amount of time working to make sure the problems with the punch-card ballots and the butterflies that we all saw, those hanging chads four years ago, would never happen again. And you're now saying it's very possible we could see that happening again?

WEXLER: Well, in some ways it could be worse. As bad as the chads were, at least we had something to look at, as silly as it was, people looking up into the sky and seeing if a chad had moved. Now, with the electronic machines, there's nothing to look at. The information is in cyberspace. And what the machine can do will not be helpful in a close race.

BLITZER: Isn't there a hard drive that you can go to and check it out?

WEXLER: Well, what can you check out? If I'm at the machine and I press John Kerry but it records George Bush, I the voter have no clue that it's happened. What to you do after the fact? These are secret ballots.

What happens if 409 people sign in to vote in a precinct, but the machines at the precinct calculate 512? Well, which ones don't count?

BLITZER: So, you're saying that it even could be worse than it was four years ago. That's a remote -- a tiny possibility.

WEXLER: I hope not.

BLITZER: You hope it won't be worse, obviously. WEXLER: I hope it won't be.

BLITZER: If the election in Florida were today, who would win?

WEXLER: I think John Kerry by a hair, because the intensity is so high on the Democratic side, the turnout in Broward and Palm Beach Counties is going to be so enormous, I think the Democrats, John Kerry, comes out of Broward and Palm Beach Counties with about a 400,000 vote margin. That's tough to make up.

BLITZER: We've reestablished contact with Mark Foley, the Republican congressman from Florida.

If the election were held today, who do you think would win, Congressman Foley?

FOLEY: I feel comfortable George Bush is doing an excellent job after the hurricanes. His brother's popularity is soaring. The president's connecting with voters. He's going to be here again on Saturday in Fort Myers. And I believe, based on the polling data we've seen, he's at least three to four points ahead.

BLITZER: Three to four points ahead? You accept that, Congressman...

WEXLER: No. The last poll I saw was 48-48. John Kerry will be in Boca Raton on Sunday. I'll be with him. John Kerry's being very strong on prescription drugs, Middle East and his support for Israel. I think John Kerry is going to bring this home.

BLITZER: But among your Jewish constituents, a lot of them are saying, you know what? George W. Bush has been a very strong supporter of Israel.

WEXLER: John Kerry has a 100 percent voting record in support of Israel. He's been incredibly outspoken in terms of stopping the financial source of terror from Saudi Arabia, which endangers Israel. The message is coming home. I think an overwhelming majority of Jewish Americans will be with John Kerry.

BLITZER: You've got a lot of Jewish constituents in your district as well, Congressman Foley. What are you hearing?

FOLEY: Wolf, I'm hearing a lot of support for the president. This is the first president that has not welcomed Yasser Arafat into the White House. Mr. Kerry did have some contradictions over the fence. He said to the Palestinians a fence is an impediment to peace. He said to the Israelis this is a good idea for your own security. He's conflicted himself on Helms-Burton with the Cuban community.

So, I think he has a little bit of a problem. And then the statement Mrs. Kerry made I think infuriates women here in Florida that are homemakers, that believe that is a job, a noble profession, as is teaching and being a librarian. I do think Mrs. Bush was absolutely correct in saying put this aside, let's move on to the issues. BLITZER: We're going to have to go. I'll give you 10 seconds, Congressman Wexler.

WEXLER: On the fence, it was President Bush who wavered. John Kerry was a prime sponsor of the Syrian Accountability Act; the president opposed it, initially. John Kerry spoke out against the awful comments of the Saudi Arabian crown prince when he said Zionists were the cause of terror in Saudi Arabia. The president was mum.

BLITZER: We'll have a continuation of this debate down the road.

FOLEY: I hope so.

BLITZER: Two good members of Congress from Florida, Robert Wexler, Mark Foley. Thanks to both of you for joining us.

FOLEY: Thanks to both of you.

BLITZER: And let's hope and pray that we don't have a repeat of that Florida fiasco on November 2nd. But of course, we'll all be watching very, very closely. Thanks to both of you for joining us.

As one newspaper in New York put it, hell freezes over. Sports' biggest rivalry, perhaps, writes another chapter for the history books. But this time, the finale has a different hero. More on last night's historic game seven with New York Yankees broadcaster Charlie Steiner. He'll join us live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CURT SCHILLING, PITCHER, BOSTON RED SOX: We just beat the best organization in sports history to get to the World Series in unprecedented fashion. And what an appropriate group of guys to do it.

THEO EPSTEIN, GENERAL MANAGER, BOSTON RED SOX: This one is for all the great Red Sox teams that couldn't quite beat the Yankees, '49, '78, our team last year that fell short against these guys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The Red Sox have done what many thought could not be done, overcome a three-game deficit to take a place in history and win a berth in the World Series. In the process they brushed back the Bambino and the legend of the curse. Their victory made all the sweeter because it came at Yankee Stadium.

This is just a sampling of New York sentiment out this morning. Joining us now with his perspective, the voice of the New York Yankees, Charlie Steiner.

Charlie, thanks very much for joining us. Give us your perspective, this was an enormous, an enormous comeback. CHARLIE STEINER, VOICE OF THE YANKEES: It was historic, it has never happened before. Never before in baseball history had a team been down three games to none so much as to force a game seven, let alone winning game seven at Yankee Stadium, you know, from -- as the liner said, "from cursed to first."

The Red Sox at the end of the day simply outplayed the Yankees. And the Yankees were just three outs away from completing a sweep at Fenway Park last weekend. Red Sox got off the mat and they were terrific from that point on.

BLITZER: How did they do it?

STEINER: Well, they're a gritty, gutty bunch. Understand that these two teams have faced one another, since beginning of the 2003 season, 52 times: and 27 types the Red Sox won, 25 times the Yankees won. Of course, last year the Yankees won with the Aaron Boone home run. And that's what makes this rivalry so great, these two teams are so close, not only geographically, but historically, and last night the Red Sox pulled off an historic upset.

BLITZER: I guess no one will say the curse is over with until we see what happens in the World Series is that right?

STEINER: I think that's fair to say. But on the other hand I think every Red Sox fan and every fan of Boston wanted to go through the Yankees and Yankee Stadium before finally winning the World Series, something, of course, they hadn't done since 1918, and Yankee fans are always quick to tell Red Sox fans, anybody can have a bad century.

BLITZER: Bad century, indeed. The notion of the New York Yankees, certainly the highest priced, the greatest talent, maybe ever put together on one baseball team, losing four straight games in a series like this, it's almost unbelievable, isn't it?

STEINER: It really is. And I don't think anybody expected it. That's where you have to give credit to the Red Sox. Again, they were three outs away from elimination over the weekend at Fenway Park. And once they got that momentum going, look, this is a very good team, only three games separated the Yankees and the Red Sox all year.

And the rivalry continued actually this past winter what with the acquisition for the Red Sox of Curt Schilling, who was so great in game six, and then the acquisition for the Yankees of Alex Rodriguez who the Red Sox so dearly wanted. It was just great theater. And that's what the Yankees and Red Sox have been all about.

BLITZER: Handicap a little bit for us, because you know a great deal about baseball, tonight's game between the St. Louis Cardinals and the Houston Astros.

STEINER: I dare not. One of the things you don't want to do in baseball is predict. But, having said that, you've got Roger Clemens on the hill, and what a great story that would be. If Clemens is able to win game seven and then go to Fenway Park in Boston and pitch in the World Series there, what a great story that would be.

So I suppose, just for the theatrics of it all you kind of like the Houston Astros winning on the road. But the fact of the matter is, the Cardinals were best team in baseball all year, they won more games than anybody else and they're playing at home.

BLITZER: So this will be an exciting game tonight, as all of us know as well. Give us a flavor, because you're a New Yorker, spent most of your life in New York City, how depressed are Yankee fans right now?

STEINER: If you suggest that people are like walking into walls and not realizing it, I think that might be one way of looking at it. There's always been this sense of expectation in New York about the Yankees. A, they're going to postseason and, B, they're going to win the World Series. Now they are this catastrophic slump in which they have not won the World Series in four consecutive years. But they had a terrific year. They won 101 games, they drew nearly 4 million people to the Bronx. But they came up a game short. And now it's the Red Sox turn.

BLITZER: Do the Yankees, the management of the Yankees, the whole upper echelon, do they have to rethink their strategy now or do they just go forward with what they have?

STEINER: Oh, there will be changes. Exactly what the changes are, of course, that will be part of the winter theater here in New York. Clearly, the Yankees need more pitching and that was an area that was exposed in the ALCS with the Red Sox and that's the one area I know they want to beef up considerably. So yes, there will be some changes.

BLITZER: Do you, automatically, Charlie Steiner, root for the Red Sox now or for the National League team in the World Series?

STEINER: Oh gee, thanks for asking that one, Wolf. Yes, I've got to tell you, I'm one of those Yankee people who actually likes the Red Sox. They're really a bunch of good guys, they just happen to play for the other team. And they played a terrific series. They had a great season. They're a team with a lot of personality. So I'm one of those New Yorkers, I'm sorry, who actually kind of has a fondness for the Red Sox and I suppose I'll find myself rooting for them.

BLITZER: All right. If you see Jeff Greenfield in the studio over there, our condolences to him as well. I know he's pretty upset right now.

STEINER: He's one of the guys who has been walking into walls I believe.

BLITZER: I think you're handling it though relatively well, Charlie, I must say.

STEINER: It's still early.

BLITZER: Charlie Steiner, a good friend of ours. Thanks very much for joining us.

STEINER: OK, Wolf.

BLITZER: Coming up at the top of the hour, the politics of fear. It's nothing especially new in the race for the White House. But how is this year different than most? We'll take a closer look on "LIVE FROM," that's coming up at the top of the hour. I'll be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: I'll be back later today, every weekday, 5 p.m. Eastern, for "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Among other things, the former head of CIA's clandestine operations will give our David Ensor a rare one-on-one interview. David has a full report. He'll join us, tell us what's on the mind of the former head of the CIA office of clandestine operations.

That's coming up 5 p.m. Eastern later today on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Until then, thanks very much for joining us. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LIVE FROM" with Miles O'Brien, that's coming up next.

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