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CNN Live Saturday

World Series Begins Tonight; Bush Campaigns In Florida; Interview with "The Biggest Loser" Trainers

Aired October 23, 2004 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Carol Lin. Welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. Here is what's happening right now in the news. At least a dozen Iraqis were killed in two suicide car bombings today. Two died in this blast near Samara, and 10 Iraqi police officers were killed northwest of Baghdad.
In Afghanistan, seven people were injured in a suicide grenade attack in Kabul. The attacker blew himself up on a street crowded with shoppers. Three of the people injured were international peacekeepers.

Japan agrees to allow limited import of American beef into that country if meat processors follow new inspection rules. A new deal could send a billion dollars in American beef to Japan after mad cow scares shut down beef trade last year.

Good evening, I'm Carol Lin, and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. Straight ahead, a CNN exclusive, we are going to take you inside the insurgency, on the streets with one group that wants to push America out of Iraq. Karl Penhaul takes us there.

Also, later, the newest controversial reality series, "The Biggest Loser." Is it a show that's motivating people or is it humiliating the contestants? The trainers from the show are with me to weigh in.

But we start tonight with big stadiums, cheering crowds, helicopters, motorcades, loud music, too. ` But we aren't talking about rock 'n' roll concerts. No, it's the next to last weekend of the presidential campaign, and both John Kerry and George Bush are the stars of the show. And it's a show that's still too close to call. Any way you read the numbers in a brand-new poll by "Newsweek," the Bush/Kerry race is a close heat. Want more close numbers? How about 277 to 261? That is the latest CNN electoral map. It means that if the election were held today, President Bush might win, but by just seven electoral votes.

Of course, the election is still 10 days away. And that "Newsweek" poll we just looked at also says 13 percent of registered voters still have not made up their minds, which brings us back to the helicopters, stadiums and campaign rallies. President Bush choppered around Florida today ending up in Jacksonville. Our Suzanne Malveaux joins us there.

Suzanne, there was some bit of action on the sidelines today up in the skies? SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, a lot of action, Carol. And as one senior Republican official put it, he said if you're undecided, you've either been living in a cave or you're just not going to vote. The Bush campaign no longer focusing on that particular group but rather the party faithful, and boy, they are putting on a show.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): President Bush made the kind of dramatic entrance that only the incumbent could make. The commander in chief swooped down onto the Ft. Myers ballpark in Marine One. Ironically, his chopper landed in left field, in the part where John Kerry's Boston Red Sox headed to the World Series hold their spring practice. But none of that seemed to faze the audience who burst into the applause when the theme to the movie "Top Gun" signaled the president's arrival.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, the president of the United States.

MALVEAUX: Like the last election, Florida is critical to a Bush win. Traveling with the first lady and his brother, Florida's governor, Jeb Bush, the president hit four big rallies across the state to energize his base. In Melbourne, during the president's speech, a small plane inadvertently violated the restricted airspace there. Two F-15 fighter jets patrolling the skies quickly intercepted the Cessna and escorted it to a nearby airfield. The White House says the president was never in any danger.

Mr. Bush crisscrossed the Sunshine State hitting Ft. Myers, Lakeland, Melbourne and Jacksonville, home to many military families. His message remained the same, that Kerry cannot be trusted to be commander in chief.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He used to understand that Saddam was a major source of instability in the Middle East. After all, he said so. Senator Kerry seems to have forgotten all that, as his position has evolved during the course of the campaign. You might call it election amnesia.

MALVEAUX: The Kerry camp shot back at Mr. Bush's attack line saying the voters won't have amnesia when it comes time to vote on Election Day. The Bush campaign is hoping voters will remember the president's quick response to the state's hurricane crisis. And Mr. Bush is counting on seniors, Hispanics and Jewish voters to put him over the top.

But political analysts say the wild card will be how the dramatic increase in Florida's registered voters impact the election. One point five million new voters have registered since the last presidential election, an increase of 18 percent. Registered independents grew a whopping 41 percent.

PROF. ALLAN LICHYMAN, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: I've got three words of advice for Mr. Bush to win Florida, turnout, turnout, turnout. Turn on your base, and get them to show up at the polls.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Now, the president will continue his intense get out the vote effort in half a dozen battleground states. One Republican official saying it is now mono-a-mono, competing road shows over who will turn out the most votes -- Carol.

LIN: Mono-a-mono. Thanks very much. Suzanne live in Jacksonville, Florida.

All right, Senator John Kerry is flying from rally to rally as well this weekend, but he's covering a lot more ground. The senator spent the day out west in Colorado and then New Mexico. He heads to Florida tonight. Frank Buckley is covering the senator and joins me now from Las Cruces, New Mexico -- Frank.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Carol. Right now the senator is speaking -- Senator Kerry is speaking right now, so it's a bit loud. I hope you can hear me. But Senator Kerry is visiting states here in the southwest in an attempt to try to pick up some electoral votes, electoral votes that he probably won't get in the traditional southern states because President Bush is ahead in those traditional southern states. And central to the effort to pick up electoral votes in the southwest for Senator Kerry is to get out the Hispanic vote, and that's what today is all about.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY (voice-over): The Kerry campaign came to tiny Pueblo, Colorado, home to a large concentration of Hispanic voters in a bid to win over a state that went to George Bush in 2000. Bob Dole in 1996.

KEN SALAZAR (D), COLORADO SENATE CANDIDATE: Senator Kerry, the next president of the United States of America.

BUCKLEY: Senator John Kerry's hopes here hinging on whether Hispanic voters embrace him. Kerry sprinkled Spanish into his stump speech as he tried to make his case for voters.

SEN. JOHN KERRY, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everything that's at stake for our families. Everything is at risk. Our health care, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), all of it. (UNINTELLIGIBLE), employment, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), the future of the reputation of the United States and the world. People are waiting to see what you do on Election Day all across this world.

BUCKLEY: Campaign advisers believe an expected large Hispanic voter turnout for Colorado attorney general and U.S. Senate candidate Ken Salazar will help Kerry here. Meanwhile, the Massachusetts senator apparently has no plans to attend tonight's first game of the World Series in his native Boston. Kerry telling Salazar he would most definitely not be attending any of the games in St. Louis either.

KERRY: He wondered if I was going to go to any of the World Series games, particularly when I was in St. Louis. You know if I was in St. Louis, he thought I might drop by and I said are you kidding, for the next 10 days I'm not going in a place called Busch Stadium.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY: And tonight it's unlikely that he'll be able to see the first game of the World Series. He'll be in transit to Florida.

Tomorrow, he campaigns in Florida. And then Monday, Carol, Senator Kerry will be appearing with former president Bill Clinton in Philadelphia -- Carol.

LIN: But I'm sure we can be sure that John Kerry will be keeping, well, close track of his team, Frank. Thank you very much. Frank Buckley reporting live out of Las Cruces.

All right, both presidential candidates were being shadowed by the other guy's running mate today. For example, Senator John Edwards also campaigned in Florida today, although not in the same cities as President Bush. John Edwards made a point of questioning the president's plans for social security. Vice President Dick Cheney was in New Mexico as well today and he told a crowd in Farmington, the world would be worse off if John Kerry were president.

Ralph Nader will not be on Pennsylvania's election ballots. In an unusual Saturday decision, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld lower court rulings that Nader's petitions did not have enough valid signatures. So his battle is still brewing.

All right, always, we turn to the fight for Iraq. Whether it's -- where it has been another bloody day. But it's also a day where U.S. forces scored a notable success. They say they captured a member of insurgent leader Abu Musab al Zarqawi's inner circle during a raid in Fallujah. Five other men identified as terrorists were also captured.

A pair of suicide car bombings left at least 12 Iraqis dead. The attacks targeted a police station and security checkpoint. Nothing more has been heard about the fate of kidnapped official of CARE International. Margaret Hassan disappeared last Tuesday. Friday, Al Jazerra ran a videotape showing Hassan pleading for her life.

Now, there is disturbing news about the strength of the Iraq insurgency. U.S. military intelligence says more people are joining up and more outside money is flowing in. Older estimates had put the core of the insurgency at 5,000 to 7,000 fighters. Well, now there are at least 12,000. So who are these people? Well, a CNN stringer videotaped a band of men as they took on U.S. forces in a street fight in a village north of Baghdad. Karl Penhaul brings us this exclusive report from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Midmorning in the farming village of Boharuz (ph). Insurgent fighters from the so- called 1920 Brigade were engaged in a hit-and-run street fight with U.S. soldiers. Pentagon intelligence sources say that battling multiple groups motivated by common agenda, anti-U.S. sentiment. They believe Iraq's resistance is getting better funded and better organized. But there are few clear signs of that here. Some are fighting barefoot. The weapons they're reloading are Soviet designs used by Saddam Hussein's army, also cheaply available on the black market. These fighters, men and boys, are outgunned and outnumbered by coalition forces but they're bristling with confidence.

"We live and die by Allah's words. God willing, victory will be ours," he says.

When they're not fighting, these insurgents say they have regular jobs as farmers, auto mechanics and truck drivers, adding they only grab their guns on Friday because coalition troops rolled into their village.

A U.S. army quick reaction force pushed into Boharuz (ph) after the U.S. military says insurgents attacked a patrol on the outskirts. Seven people killed and nine wounded were wounded in the cross fire, according to doctors at the hospital in nearby Ba'qubah.

"We were walking and we got shot at, me and my dad," he says.

A U.S. military spokesman couldn't confirm any civilian casualties but said nine insurgents were killed, three wounded and one captured.

As U.S. forces advance, the 1920 Brigade slips away down the winding back alleys it knows so well. A quick discussion of tactics and the fighters split up, only to pop up minutes later, blasting away from another street corner or ducking out of a house to unleash a rocket propelled grenade. This insurgent sniper team clampers down from a vantage point. In a show of bravado they announce, "We got up on a high position and spotted these cowards," he says, "we killed two of them. They quickly changed their position after that." U.S. Forces say they took no casualties. It's one of many daily skirmishes in Iraq's Sunni Triangle. Resistance gunmen may not be able to defeat coalition troops but they continue trying to bog them down in a messy guerrilla war in Iraq streets and back alleys.

Karl Penhaul, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well, no doubt the insurgency has made the mission in Iraq a lot harder to achieve. But has it changed it?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. COL. STEVE BULLMORE, U.S. ARMY: Can we have trust and confidence in each other, Iraqis and us, and us and Iraqis? I would think that that's far easier than having -- being of the same heart of and the same mind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Up next tonight, for many U.S. troops it's no longer winning hearts and minds that counts. It's winning the trust of the Iraqi people.

Plus, a mother's sorrow. She lost her son in Iraq and now she's turning her anguish into activism. I'm going to be talking to her tonight.

And later, shedding pounds for prime-time. It's the show where being the biggest loser makes you the biggest winner. But is the show more humiliating than motivating? Tonight, we're going to ask two trainers who push the contestants week after week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: In our continuing look at life on the front lines in Iraq, tonight, whatever happened to the U.S. mission to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people? Well, our Jane Arraf says making that dream a reality has been easier said than done.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): A year and a half after the end of the war, there are few Americans talking about winning the hearts and minds of Iraqis. Now, they're just trying to earn their trust. Soldiers still throw candy to children, even from helicopters, and they value friendly waves from townspeople.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now, somebody sees someone throwing rocks at us. They usually try to drop two bags of toys or candy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don't do it the next time.

ARRAF: But the U.S. military's mission here is more complex than anyone bargained for. In an environment more hostile than anyone expected. Increasingly, they're aiming at more tangible goals.

BULLMORE: Can we have trust and confidence in each other, Iraqis and us, and us and Iraqis? I would think that that's far easier than having -- being of the same heart and of the same mind.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I surprise when I see the checkpoints...

ARRAF: Walid Farid Abul Salam, chief of police in the Diyala in the Sunni Triangle says trust between military commanders here and the police has built slowly. Now he says that has to trickle down to the level of ordinary Iraqis.

WALID FARID ABDUL SALAM, DIYALA CHIEF OF POLICE (through translator): We need time to convince our people of the intentions of the Americans, the intentions behind their presence and efforts for Iraq.

ARRAF: After the war, Iraqis expected peace and prosperity in this oil-rich country. Most have neither and they blame United States.

"The Americans have brought us nothing concrete, only words," Isnar (ph) tells us, reeling off a list of complaints. American psychological operations teams still broadcast their messages in towns and cities. But many of those messages are asking for help in defeating the insurgency. To build the trust they need, sadly, military leaders devote a lot of time talking with local leaders. At the 1st Infantry Division's 3rd Brigade, they use lessons they learned in the ethnic cauldron of Kosovo, primarily patience.

COL. DANA PITTARD, U.S. ARMY: What we learned there is for meetings, success is that you wait everybody out; you listen to everybody's issues.

ARRAF: Success, he says, won't be making Iraqis like the American presence here. They probably won't ever do that. It will be to gain their confidence and cooperation in building a new Iraq.

Jane Arraf, CNN, Ba'qubah, Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well, 1992 and politics was dubbed the year of the woman. But this year could change that. More women than ever are running for high office. Still to come, who might be the next political star.

But up next, the quest to end the curse. Game one of the World Series is tonight, and we're live at Fenway Park for a preview.

LARRY SMITH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. I'm Larry Smith here at Fenway Park. Who will be the next World Series champion? We know this, they will wear red. The Cardinals and the Red Sox, a preview coming up live when CNN LIVE SATURDAY continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Boston's mayor is promising an increased police presence around Fenway Park during the World Series, which might seem ironic after a police canister hit a 21-year-old woman, Victoria Snelgrove in the head. She died after that incident. Police officers had to try to break up an unruly crowd at the time, after that playoff game.

Now, an estimated 80,000 Red Sox fans poured into the streets to celebrate Boston's win over the New York Yankees in the American League Championship Series. To give you an idea of what those crowds were like, so consider this, in just a couple of hours the St. Louis Cardinals square off against the Red Sox in Game One of the World Series. CNN's Larry Smith joins me live from Boston with the very latest.

Larry, I don't think the Red Sox have ever won against the Cardinals in a World Series?

SMITH: They never have. They've met twice before. They lost both times, but then again, the Red Sox since 1918, as they have been winless in World Series.

But what a special night tonight, Carol, here at Fenway Park. You know there's something special about antique stadiums and there's no ballpark really in baseball older or more special than Fenway Park. Built in 1912, the oldest park in Major League Baseball, built six years, in fact, before the Red Sox won their last World Series. But the teams are on the field tonight. The Red Sox are taking batting practice. The Cardinals stretching, ready to take their batting practice as they get ready to do battle, if you will, in Game One of this best-of-seven series, the 100th renewal of the World Series.

Now, the starting pitchers for both: Woody Williams is the starting pitcher for St. Louis. Tim Wakefield is the starting pitcher for Boston. The knuckleballer, 38 years old, long career. He's been in playoffs many years with the Pirates and now the Red Sox, finally, in the World Series. It all began eight months ago when these teams reported to spring training and now it's down to either the Cardinals or the Red Sox to decide a champion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN MILLAR, RED SOX OUTFIELDER: This is where you write history. I mean just to be a part of history and to be a part of this atmosphere, I don't think there's a group of guys that deserves it more, because of the non tenors, because of the guys that have been released, because of the guys that haven't been drafted, because of the grinders and your superstars. It's just a -- it's a great mix.

TONY LA RUSSA, CARDINALS MANAGER: I mean it's a time for both fans to be selfish and both teams to be selfish, and you know, they want to win for all their reasons, but we have a clubhouse full of guys that never had a World Series ring. So, you know, we're going to try and be greedy and selfish just like they are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMITH: Two quick things to keep in mind, as the Red Sox leave the field here behind me, St. Louis's defense, only one error in 10 postseason games. And the Red Sox, meanwhile, winningest team since August 1st, 42 and 18 over the final two months of the season.

Carol, let's go back to you.

LIN: It's going to be exciting. Thanks, Larry.

We're also going to return to the election tonight and to questions over the war. Up next, I'm going to speak to two parents who both lost sons in Iraq, but their political views on it and President Bush could not be more different.

Plus, America's future in space, it's not looking very bright. But we're going to visit a school trying to change that, putting interest back into engineering.

And later, no, it's not "Extreme Makeover" or "Survivor," but it could be a mix of the two. Later tonight, meet the trainers behind "The Biggest Loser".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Welcome back. Here's a quick look at what's happening right now in the news.

In Iraq, a pair of suicide car bombings left at least 12 Iraqis dead. The attacks targeted a police station and the National Guard camp.

In Los Angeles, police say they are seeking charges against a man they say could be the most prolific serial killer in the city's history. Thirty-seven-year-old Chester Turner was allegedly linked by DNA evidence to the killings of 13 women.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF WILLIAM BRATTON, LOS ANGELES POLICE: Using DNA evidence, detectives and criminalists with the LAPD Scientific Investigation Division connected Turner to the murders that took place in 1991 -- excuse me, 1987 to 1998.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: An American astronaut and a Russian cosmonaut bid farewell to the Space Station after six months on board. They're heading home with another cosmonaut who's only been up there eight days.

All right, we are just 10 days away from the presidential election, and a brand-new poll from "Newsweek" shows the Bush/Kerry race is a dead heat. There's a number you don't see though, but it could prove important. Fifty-six percent of the people polled are dissatisfied with the way things are going in the country.

Now, Senator John Kerry campaigned in Colorado and New Mexico, and will be in Florida before the day is out. Kerry is telling crowds he will defend America and fight for the middle class.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: We need a president, my friends, who asks you to join together in voting not for your fears but voting for your hopes for this country. That's what this is about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: And President Bush helicoptered around Florida today. He's accusing Kerry of misunderstanding the importance of the war on terrorism. As proof, the president singles out a quote from the Kerry foreign policy adviser who said the war on terror was a metaphor like the war on poverty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Anyone who thinks we're fighting a metaphor does not understand the enemy we face. And you cannot win a war if you're not convinced we are even in one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Well, the war in Iraq is a big issue for a lot of voters. And in fact, it's turning some people into unlikely political campaigners, for example, the parents of those who are fighting in Iraq. Here's a clip from a recent anti-Bush ad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY SHEEHAN, LOST SON IN IRAQ WAR: He died in his best friend's arms in Iraq. I imagined it would have hurt if one of my kids was killed but I never thought it would hurt this bad, especially someone so honest and brave as Casey, my son, when you haven't been honest with us, Mr. Bush.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Cindy Sheehan is the mother in that ad who lost her son in Iraq. She doesn't want the president reelected. She's joining me from Tampa, Florida.

Cindy, first, let me offer my condolences over your son Casey. I know it's still very fresh. You lost him back in April.

SHEEHAN: Thank you.

LIN: You say that President Bush lied to the country. You have you gone out of your way, even during a very private time of grief, to not only speak out but to help the people supporting Kerry create these ads. You opposed the war before your son went. How did your son feel going into battle, knowing how you felt about his mission?

SHEEHAN: He knew that we supported him, and that we were going to support him and his buddies. He didn't agree that Iraq was an imminent threat to the United States, and he didn't agree with this war, but he knew it was his duty and knew that's what he trained for.

LIN: But it was his choice?

SHEEHAN: Right.

LIN: I mean he wanted to serve in the military. So...

SHEEHAN: Yes, he did.

LIN: ... and the point of serving in the military is to serve your country and to follow your commander in chief, which in effect is George W. Bush.

SHEEHAN: Well, I think their commander in chief uses their sense of duty and sense of loyalty and sense of honor for their service and their buddies. He has used it and abused it. And I think a commander in chief should only commit our young people to a war when it's absolutely necessary, and when it's the last resort, and I don't think that this was the case this time.

LIN: Cindy, there are a lot of military families out there who still support the war because they say that's what an American does during a time of war, support the effort, support the commander in chief, support the men and women abroad. Those are the people who would consider you betraying your country by speaking so publicly at this time in the war on terror.

SHEEHAN: I really respect their views. They lost a child. They're entitled to their views. Every American is entitled to their views, whether they have lost a child in this war or not. I just think that this war was based on lies and betrayals to the American people and I think that whoever wins on November 2, they need to bring our troops home as quickly and as intelligently and as safely as possible, and that's what I'm going to fight for.

LIN: Cindy, what would make you feel that at least in the best way or in any kind of justified way as a mother, what would make you feel that Casey died for the right cause? What would justify the grief that you are going through? What would you want to hear?

SHEEHAN: Casey died saving other American lives. I'm very proud of him, and I'm very proud of all of our children that are over there doing the best that they can to keep each other alive. My question is what were any of them doing over there? And my son didn't die in vain. He saved American lives. But I can hear him in heaven saying, "Mom, I died saving my butt buddies, and I can't do that job anymore. It's your turn. Bring my buddies home before any other moms have to go what you're going through, any other families have to go through what you're going through."

LIN: Cindy, thank you very much.

SHEEHAN: Thank you.

LIN: Condy Sheehan who has helped the supporters of John Kerry produce an ad for which she was scripted but decided to go off script and use her own words to tell her story.

I want to get the other side now of this issue from a different parent. William Boesing lost a son in Iraq but he still supports President Bush. He's joining me now from Tampa, Florida.

William, our condolences for the loss of your son Brian. He was killed in March of last year in a fierce battle. Today, there was a memorial of sorts in his honor by the Marine Corps. How did it go?

WILLIAM BOESING, LOST SON IN IRAQ: It went very well. Brian -- we had bricks made for myself, Brian and my dad who -- all three of us were Marines. And, of course, Brian being the one we wanted to be sure got his brick into a place on a garden in the Marine Corps League in front of the barracks up in Brooksville. It was very nice, a very moving ceremony.

LIN: You heard what Cindy Sheehan had to say, and you know personally -- you know her pain very deeply. Why is it that you choose to support President Bush and this war on terror and the continuing war in Iraq when no weapons of mass destruction have been found, continuing reports that there are no connections between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein?

BOESING: At the beginning of this war, my son wrote a letter to me explaining that he was going over to Iraq to help those people and remove a very bad person. The letter I got was five pages long. My son was the kind of guy that wanted to help anybody. And everybody loved Brian. He was just the kind of the person that would be there for everybody and he couldn't wait to get there to help.

We knew there would be danger. Brian was the kind of guy that would be right out in front doing things. And the weapons unit that he was in was in a fierce battle in Nasiriyah. He died on the 23, you know, was killed by a mortar, but he died with a lot of his friends and he was there helping buddies. And we're very proud of Brian. We know he went over there for a reason, and we want the reason that he went there to be finalized by our president.

LIN: I'm sure you are very proud of him, and a lot to be proud of your son especially with the military tradition, third generation.

BOESING: Yes, ma'am.

LIN: Amazing. Listen, you know, he was in a place where we talk a lot about democracy, bringing democracy to the Iraqi people. When you have a situation there where there is barely any water, barely any electricity, people are too afraid to even leave their homes, do you ever wonder whether you're son died in vain, if that was his mission to bring freedom to the Iraqi people? What sort of freedom is this?

BOESING: They'll get their freedom, I'm sure of it. The people I've talked to, there's been several people over there and have come back, and a lot want to go back again to help because they know that things are getting done. We need to get them done to get our troops home obviously.

And I -- my heart goes out to everybody, including Cindy. Cindy is a wonderful person. I met her for the first time today. It's a tragic situation but they're there for a reason. They enlisted. My son wanted to go. He was a Marine, and like they say, Marines die, unfortunately, when the Marine Corps and the United States don't. And that's the reason is people go over there and do these things for us. They'll go until they can get this thing finished.

LIN: And you think President Bush is the man to lead them into battle?

BOESING: Absolutely. He's been -- President Bush, I feel, has a mission. He's looking to -- he's focused and that takes care of my situation as far as that goes. I want him to finish the situation, get it over with. I don't see anything clear in Mr. Kerry's -- in his politics. He just kind of goes back and forth, so I'd rather get Mr. Bush to get this thing over with.

LIN: William Boesing, thank you very much for your time.

BOESING: Thank you. I appreciate it.

LIN: All right, very different opinion in a heart loss -- heart rendering situation.

In the meantime, on the political stage, you might recall 1992 was called the year of the woman in politics. There were 22 women elected to Congress at that time. But 2004 is giving it a run for its money with a record number of women running for the House of Representatives this year. Alina Cho reports on that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Pennsylvania's 13th district, a coming of age.

MELISSA BROWN (R), PA CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Hi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

BROWN: MELISSA BROWN.

CHO: Republican Melissa Brown running against Democrat Allyson Schwartz for the Philadelphia suburbs open seat, one of 11 races for House seats where women are competing against other women and gender isn't the biggest issue on the platform.

BROWN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and they said oh, we'll vote for you. You're a woman, immediately, I say, I'm running against a woman.

ALLYSON SCHWARZ, (D), PA CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: I've been surprised that that's been less of an issue than you might think and maybe that's what we've gotten to in 2004.

CHO (on camera): What we've gotten to is a record 139 women running for U.S. House seats this year. Ten women are running for the Senate, three for governor. Of the House seats, roughly a third of the competitive districts feature a female candidate. And if all of them win, 12 more women will be heading to Washington, adding to the 74 female members of Congress who are already there.

SCHWARZ: The competitive races around the country, majority of women candidates are running in suburban districts. Suburban Philadelphia, suburban New York, suburban Illinois.

CHO (voice-over): Places where so-called kitchen table platforms like health care and education dominate the discourse. Candidates to watch, Republican Cathy McMorris, the favorite to win a House seat in Spokane, Washington. Political newcomer Stephanie Herseth is a Democrat doing well in conservative South Dakota. Back in Pennsylvania and the Brown/Schwartz race, proof that women are equally as adept as their male counterparts at slinging mud.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's back, Melissa Brown, with her gross distortions, her outright lies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allyson Schwarz wants you to think she's tough on crime, take a look.

CHO: It's equally ugly in debates.

SCHWARZ: Hang on one second...

BROWN: I was just going to say...

SCHWARZ: Let me just say that...

(CROSSTALK)

CHO: And with a little more than a week to go before the election, may the best woman win.

Alina Cho, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Still ahead tonight, a Maryland high school tries to combat a growing trend that could impact generations to come.

And trying to carve into this giant, later, the pumpkin that needs a pickup to get around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: So, do you think the U.S. really is hurting its ability to compete in a high-tech world? Why you should care? Because a third of the students enrolled in American graduate science and engineering programs are not from the United States. Our Kathleen Koch reports that visa caps are trimming those numbers even more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Prashant Nagaraddi is an I.T. developer studying and working in the U.S. for nearly 10 years. But now, new visa caps are limiting the number of such highly trained foreign professionals who can work here in jobs companies say they can't find U.S. citizens to fill.

PRASHANT NAGARADDI, I.T. DEVELOPER: Definitely, they contribute to American companies and I think they make the companies more competitive.

KOCH: During the tech boom, nearly 200,000 such visas were granted to foreign professionals. But the bubble popped and at the end of this year just a third of that number were given. High-tech companies insist that's not enough now that the tech economy is recovering.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to compete at the absolute highest levels. The absolute highest levels means finding the most skilled and talented people wherever they might be born.

KOCH: Part of the problem, the Education Department says, U.S. high school students ranked just 20th worldwide in science and 25th in math scores. Less than five percent of college degrees awarded in this country are in science and engineering.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The students who have got the intelligence or the intellect that are able to handle the math and the science increasingly are going into fields of law or business or medicine where they think there is probably more money as a professional.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fenosaline (ph) is what is in the small test tube...

KOCH: Some educators are trying to change. Schools in Prince George's County, Maryland, now require lab participation and a conceptual physics course. Local universities are helping better train teachers in science and math.

SHIRLEY JALLOW, PRINCE GEORGE'S COUNTY SCHOOLS: High school physics teachers are a very rare breed, and that affects your capacity to offer physics, honors physics, A.P. physics. And those are some of the cornerstones that you need if you're going to be serious about pursuing a science or engineering-based major.

KOCH (on camera): Some believe companies could do more to draw U.S. students to jobs in the maths and sciences by making them more lucrative.

(voice-over): They want the visa cap to stay in place to give U.S. high-tech workers a better shot at jobs instead of increasingly relying on talent from abroad.

Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And up next, the race to lose weight, the new reality show that pays to shed the pounds. I'm going to be talking to the trainers making it all happen so stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A battle and a war, OK. We have to keep our eye on the prize.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would like for us to do two hours of cardio a night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't even want you guys to go to bed. I just want you to round robin.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No going to bed?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How bad do you want it?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: OK, that was a scene from NBC's latest reality show, "The Biggest Loser". Now some are calling it a competitive and encouraging weight loss boot camp using old-fashioned hard work and dieting. But others call it humiliating, unhealthy, exploitative. Joining me now from Los Angles are the show's two trainers with two different diets, two different approaches, Bob Harper, Jillian Michaels. Jillian, you're the strength trainer for the red team.

Bob, have you trained illustrious people like Gwyneth Paltrow, Selma Blair, Laura Dern. First of all, Bob, what do you know -- don't -- those people are like this big. What do you know about fat people?

BOB HARPER, TRAINER, "THE BIGGEST LOSER": Well, this job really taught me to do what I do well.

LIN: I mean these people weigh like -- they weigh 200, 300, 400 pounds some of these people.

HARPER: Oh yes. I mean it was a challenge. When I met these people, I went wow; I've really got my work cut out for me.

LIN: Yes.

And Jillian, that was you in the clip. I mean of all the clips we could pick, you are telling these people they are in a war. You're telling them they're doing two hours of cardio. And there was one part in the first episode where you told these people they had to make up such a deficit they had to work out all night. You're scary!

JILLIAN MICHAELS, TRAINER, "THE BIGGEST LOSER": Well, thank you, Carol, OK.

HARPER: She's tough.

MICHAELS: OK. Yes, I am hard on them, and I am tough on them. But you have to understand that, you know, there is some greed of editing going on here. I mean these editors have a tough job cut out for them. They have to take eight to 10 days of material and reduce it into 44 minutes. So I also care for them very much, and take care of them. And when they came home from that challenge, they basically said to me, Jillian, you know, we want to win this way and do whatever it takes. And then I said OK, guys. And that's where it went to, you know, look, this is going to be hell. This is going to be really hard. And then I want us to do two hours of cardio tonight, and let's just move it and let's work hard.

LIN: Because you're very different approaches between the two of you and your teams. Bob, basic philosophy is they eat more often through the day, smaller portions throughout the day, to keep metabolism up. And you started with a pep talk in trying to get them to address some of their fears and their -- you know what they get out of eating.

HARPER: Right.

LIN: Jillian, obviously, you have much tougher tactics. You want them to eat less, exercise more. But Bob, tell me about your approach and why you think that's going to work with people who may have compulsive eating disorders.

HARPER: Well, with my diet, the Eat More Diet, it's all about eating about five small meals throughout the course of the day. You have your breakfast, lunch, dinner and then two snacks throughout the day; get your metabolism up and going. And the way that my philosophy works with the personal training aspect of it is it's getting to know them, working from the inside out and finding what their strengths, weaknesses are...

LIN: Right.

HARPER: ... and then fuel from that.

LIN: Right.

HARPER: Make them feel good about themselves. Really, the main objective for me is to make them feel good about themselves.

LIN: But it was so hard in the beginning because, you know when they had the initial weigh-in and they had to go in -- get into their bathing suits?

HARPER: That's a...

LIN: And -- go ahead, Bob.

HARPER: That is so tough. Can you imagine? Standing in front of America.

LIN: In front of all of America, yes.

HARPER: Standing in front of America in their bathing suit. That took courage. These people are courageous.

MICHAELS: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

HARPER: They are inspirational. They have changed us. I mean we are two changed individuals because of them.

LIN: But they have this -- I don't know if you call it -- it was a competition or a stunt where they had to race in these small boxcars and the only way they could transition the drivers was to pull the person from the inside through a small window. It was -- obviously to see obese people being pulled through a small opening, that was pretty tough, you know.

MICHAELS: Actually, I completely disagree. And I'm glad you brought up this because first all, you have to understand when people say exploitive, these people competed against thousands of people across this country for these 12 coveted positions, They want to be here. They came to this show and said "I am unhealthy and I am unhappy, please help me."

LIN: But what are they willing to do on national television, Jillian, to lose that weight?

MICHAELS: Can I ask you, though, not only did they complete that challenge, they completed it well. I mean, they kicked butt!

HARPER: And it's like going into the real world, when you go to a race car -- when you're in a race car...

LIN: Right.

HARPER: ...their -- the doors don't open. You've got to go -- you got to climb through the window to get into that...

LIN: Yes, but the race car driver doesn't weigh 300 pounds, you know.

MICHAELS: Here's what I say to you, though -- OK, so then I want to turn this back around and here's what I would like to say is how come when you watch shows -- other reality shows where there are psychologically daunting physical challenges much like this one, no one says a word.

HARPER: Eating the worst possible things you could eat.

MICHAELS: Or you know jumping off buildings. No one says a word.

HARPER: I don't eat bugs. Do you eat bugs?

LIN: Eating bugs, no, I wouldn't eat bugs.

MICHAELS: But you say...

LIN: You guys make -- you do make a really good point because...

MICHAELS: Well, you say...

LIN: ...what is so compelling about this show, Jillian, is that how much, just on a strictly emotional level, it means to the people to lose this weight and stay on the show. I mean it's not just a competition. It just goes to the absolute core of who these people are and who they want to be. So we're going to keep track of the show. I know. But you what? Would you come back on?

MICHAELS: Absolutely.

LIN: Let's talk -- we'll talk more. We're going to continue this discussion as these people progress through the show, because I think it's fascinating and I think everybody is facing this kind of challenge in their life, wants to know how these people are going to do it and how you guys are going to help them.

MICHAELS: Absolutely.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: OK.

MICHAELS: Yes.

LIN: Thanks, Bob Harper, Jillian Michaels, so much.

HARPER: Thank you. LIN: Great show. All right, much more still ahead tonight. In fact, tonight, I'm going to be talking, well, frankly with this past week's biggest loser, Dana, who got kicked off the show, see how she feels, how she's doing and what's next for her now that she doesn't have this competition to help her lose the weight.

That's all the time we have this hour. I'm going to toss it to Mark Shields to see what's happening on "THE CAP GANG" tonight.

Hi there, Mark.

MARK SHIELDS, CO-HOST, "THE CAPITAL GANG": Hey, Carol. My personal trainer is Bob Novak, but THE CAPITAL GANG will look at the final push for the White House by President Bush and Senator Kerry. Who has the edge going into these final days and how has the flu vaccine shortage infected politics? All that much and more right here next on CNN.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired October 23, 2004 - 18:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Carol Lin. Welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. Here is what's happening right now in the news. At least a dozen Iraqis were killed in two suicide car bombings today. Two died in this blast near Samara, and 10 Iraqi police officers were killed northwest of Baghdad.
In Afghanistan, seven people were injured in a suicide grenade attack in Kabul. The attacker blew himself up on a street crowded with shoppers. Three of the people injured were international peacekeepers.

Japan agrees to allow limited import of American beef into that country if meat processors follow new inspection rules. A new deal could send a billion dollars in American beef to Japan after mad cow scares shut down beef trade last year.

Good evening, I'm Carol Lin, and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. Straight ahead, a CNN exclusive, we are going to take you inside the insurgency, on the streets with one group that wants to push America out of Iraq. Karl Penhaul takes us there.

Also, later, the newest controversial reality series, "The Biggest Loser." Is it a show that's motivating people or is it humiliating the contestants? The trainers from the show are with me to weigh in.

But we start tonight with big stadiums, cheering crowds, helicopters, motorcades, loud music, too. ` But we aren't talking about rock 'n' roll concerts. No, it's the next to last weekend of the presidential campaign, and both John Kerry and George Bush are the stars of the show. And it's a show that's still too close to call. Any way you read the numbers in a brand-new poll by "Newsweek," the Bush/Kerry race is a close heat. Want more close numbers? How about 277 to 261? That is the latest CNN electoral map. It means that if the election were held today, President Bush might win, but by just seven electoral votes.

Of course, the election is still 10 days away. And that "Newsweek" poll we just looked at also says 13 percent of registered voters still have not made up their minds, which brings us back to the helicopters, stadiums and campaign rallies. President Bush choppered around Florida today ending up in Jacksonville. Our Suzanne Malveaux joins us there.

Suzanne, there was some bit of action on the sidelines today up in the skies? SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, a lot of action, Carol. And as one senior Republican official put it, he said if you're undecided, you've either been living in a cave or you're just not going to vote. The Bush campaign no longer focusing on that particular group but rather the party faithful, and boy, they are putting on a show.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): President Bush made the kind of dramatic entrance that only the incumbent could make. The commander in chief swooped down onto the Ft. Myers ballpark in Marine One. Ironically, his chopper landed in left field, in the part where John Kerry's Boston Red Sox headed to the World Series hold their spring practice. But none of that seemed to faze the audience who burst into the applause when the theme to the movie "Top Gun" signaled the president's arrival.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, the president of the United States.

MALVEAUX: Like the last election, Florida is critical to a Bush win. Traveling with the first lady and his brother, Florida's governor, Jeb Bush, the president hit four big rallies across the state to energize his base. In Melbourne, during the president's speech, a small plane inadvertently violated the restricted airspace there. Two F-15 fighter jets patrolling the skies quickly intercepted the Cessna and escorted it to a nearby airfield. The White House says the president was never in any danger.

Mr. Bush crisscrossed the Sunshine State hitting Ft. Myers, Lakeland, Melbourne and Jacksonville, home to many military families. His message remained the same, that Kerry cannot be trusted to be commander in chief.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He used to understand that Saddam was a major source of instability in the Middle East. After all, he said so. Senator Kerry seems to have forgotten all that, as his position has evolved during the course of the campaign. You might call it election amnesia.

MALVEAUX: The Kerry camp shot back at Mr. Bush's attack line saying the voters won't have amnesia when it comes time to vote on Election Day. The Bush campaign is hoping voters will remember the president's quick response to the state's hurricane crisis. And Mr. Bush is counting on seniors, Hispanics and Jewish voters to put him over the top.

But political analysts say the wild card will be how the dramatic increase in Florida's registered voters impact the election. One point five million new voters have registered since the last presidential election, an increase of 18 percent. Registered independents grew a whopping 41 percent.

PROF. ALLAN LICHYMAN, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: I've got three words of advice for Mr. Bush to win Florida, turnout, turnout, turnout. Turn on your base, and get them to show up at the polls.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Now, the president will continue his intense get out the vote effort in half a dozen battleground states. One Republican official saying it is now mono-a-mono, competing road shows over who will turn out the most votes -- Carol.

LIN: Mono-a-mono. Thanks very much. Suzanne live in Jacksonville, Florida.

All right, Senator John Kerry is flying from rally to rally as well this weekend, but he's covering a lot more ground. The senator spent the day out west in Colorado and then New Mexico. He heads to Florida tonight. Frank Buckley is covering the senator and joins me now from Las Cruces, New Mexico -- Frank.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Carol. Right now the senator is speaking -- Senator Kerry is speaking right now, so it's a bit loud. I hope you can hear me. But Senator Kerry is visiting states here in the southwest in an attempt to try to pick up some electoral votes, electoral votes that he probably won't get in the traditional southern states because President Bush is ahead in those traditional southern states. And central to the effort to pick up electoral votes in the southwest for Senator Kerry is to get out the Hispanic vote, and that's what today is all about.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY (voice-over): The Kerry campaign came to tiny Pueblo, Colorado, home to a large concentration of Hispanic voters in a bid to win over a state that went to George Bush in 2000. Bob Dole in 1996.

KEN SALAZAR (D), COLORADO SENATE CANDIDATE: Senator Kerry, the next president of the United States of America.

BUCKLEY: Senator John Kerry's hopes here hinging on whether Hispanic voters embrace him. Kerry sprinkled Spanish into his stump speech as he tried to make his case for voters.

SEN. JOHN KERRY, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everything that's at stake for our families. Everything is at risk. Our health care, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), all of it. (UNINTELLIGIBLE), employment, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), the future of the reputation of the United States and the world. People are waiting to see what you do on Election Day all across this world.

BUCKLEY: Campaign advisers believe an expected large Hispanic voter turnout for Colorado attorney general and U.S. Senate candidate Ken Salazar will help Kerry here. Meanwhile, the Massachusetts senator apparently has no plans to attend tonight's first game of the World Series in his native Boston. Kerry telling Salazar he would most definitely not be attending any of the games in St. Louis either.

KERRY: He wondered if I was going to go to any of the World Series games, particularly when I was in St. Louis. You know if I was in St. Louis, he thought I might drop by and I said are you kidding, for the next 10 days I'm not going in a place called Busch Stadium.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY: And tonight it's unlikely that he'll be able to see the first game of the World Series. He'll be in transit to Florida.

Tomorrow, he campaigns in Florida. And then Monday, Carol, Senator Kerry will be appearing with former president Bill Clinton in Philadelphia -- Carol.

LIN: But I'm sure we can be sure that John Kerry will be keeping, well, close track of his team, Frank. Thank you very much. Frank Buckley reporting live out of Las Cruces.

All right, both presidential candidates were being shadowed by the other guy's running mate today. For example, Senator John Edwards also campaigned in Florida today, although not in the same cities as President Bush. John Edwards made a point of questioning the president's plans for social security. Vice President Dick Cheney was in New Mexico as well today and he told a crowd in Farmington, the world would be worse off if John Kerry were president.

Ralph Nader will not be on Pennsylvania's election ballots. In an unusual Saturday decision, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld lower court rulings that Nader's petitions did not have enough valid signatures. So his battle is still brewing.

All right, always, we turn to the fight for Iraq. Whether it's -- where it has been another bloody day. But it's also a day where U.S. forces scored a notable success. They say they captured a member of insurgent leader Abu Musab al Zarqawi's inner circle during a raid in Fallujah. Five other men identified as terrorists were also captured.

A pair of suicide car bombings left at least 12 Iraqis dead. The attacks targeted a police station and security checkpoint. Nothing more has been heard about the fate of kidnapped official of CARE International. Margaret Hassan disappeared last Tuesday. Friday, Al Jazerra ran a videotape showing Hassan pleading for her life.

Now, there is disturbing news about the strength of the Iraq insurgency. U.S. military intelligence says more people are joining up and more outside money is flowing in. Older estimates had put the core of the insurgency at 5,000 to 7,000 fighters. Well, now there are at least 12,000. So who are these people? Well, a CNN stringer videotaped a band of men as they took on U.S. forces in a street fight in a village north of Baghdad. Karl Penhaul brings us this exclusive report from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Midmorning in the farming village of Boharuz (ph). Insurgent fighters from the so- called 1920 Brigade were engaged in a hit-and-run street fight with U.S. soldiers. Pentagon intelligence sources say that battling multiple groups motivated by common agenda, anti-U.S. sentiment. They believe Iraq's resistance is getting better funded and better organized. But there are few clear signs of that here. Some are fighting barefoot. The weapons they're reloading are Soviet designs used by Saddam Hussein's army, also cheaply available on the black market. These fighters, men and boys, are outgunned and outnumbered by coalition forces but they're bristling with confidence.

"We live and die by Allah's words. God willing, victory will be ours," he says.

When they're not fighting, these insurgents say they have regular jobs as farmers, auto mechanics and truck drivers, adding they only grab their guns on Friday because coalition troops rolled into their village.

A U.S. army quick reaction force pushed into Boharuz (ph) after the U.S. military says insurgents attacked a patrol on the outskirts. Seven people killed and nine wounded were wounded in the cross fire, according to doctors at the hospital in nearby Ba'qubah.

"We were walking and we got shot at, me and my dad," he says.

A U.S. military spokesman couldn't confirm any civilian casualties but said nine insurgents were killed, three wounded and one captured.

As U.S. forces advance, the 1920 Brigade slips away down the winding back alleys it knows so well. A quick discussion of tactics and the fighters split up, only to pop up minutes later, blasting away from another street corner or ducking out of a house to unleash a rocket propelled grenade. This insurgent sniper team clampers down from a vantage point. In a show of bravado they announce, "We got up on a high position and spotted these cowards," he says, "we killed two of them. They quickly changed their position after that." U.S. Forces say they took no casualties. It's one of many daily skirmishes in Iraq's Sunni Triangle. Resistance gunmen may not be able to defeat coalition troops but they continue trying to bog them down in a messy guerrilla war in Iraq streets and back alleys.

Karl Penhaul, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well, no doubt the insurgency has made the mission in Iraq a lot harder to achieve. But has it changed it?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. COL. STEVE BULLMORE, U.S. ARMY: Can we have trust and confidence in each other, Iraqis and us, and us and Iraqis? I would think that that's far easier than having -- being of the same heart of and the same mind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Up next tonight, for many U.S. troops it's no longer winning hearts and minds that counts. It's winning the trust of the Iraqi people.

Plus, a mother's sorrow. She lost her son in Iraq and now she's turning her anguish into activism. I'm going to be talking to her tonight.

And later, shedding pounds for prime-time. It's the show where being the biggest loser makes you the biggest winner. But is the show more humiliating than motivating? Tonight, we're going to ask two trainers who push the contestants week after week.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: In our continuing look at life on the front lines in Iraq, tonight, whatever happened to the U.S. mission to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people? Well, our Jane Arraf says making that dream a reality has been easier said than done.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): A year and a half after the end of the war, there are few Americans talking about winning the hearts and minds of Iraqis. Now, they're just trying to earn their trust. Soldiers still throw candy to children, even from helicopters, and they value friendly waves from townspeople.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now, somebody sees someone throwing rocks at us. They usually try to drop two bags of toys or candy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don't do it the next time.

ARRAF: But the U.S. military's mission here is more complex than anyone bargained for. In an environment more hostile than anyone expected. Increasingly, they're aiming at more tangible goals.

BULLMORE: Can we have trust and confidence in each other, Iraqis and us, and us and Iraqis? I would think that that's far easier than having -- being of the same heart and of the same mind.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I surprise when I see the checkpoints...

ARRAF: Walid Farid Abul Salam, chief of police in the Diyala in the Sunni Triangle says trust between military commanders here and the police has built slowly. Now he says that has to trickle down to the level of ordinary Iraqis.

WALID FARID ABDUL SALAM, DIYALA CHIEF OF POLICE (through translator): We need time to convince our people of the intentions of the Americans, the intentions behind their presence and efforts for Iraq.

ARRAF: After the war, Iraqis expected peace and prosperity in this oil-rich country. Most have neither and they blame United States.

"The Americans have brought us nothing concrete, only words," Isnar (ph) tells us, reeling off a list of complaints. American psychological operations teams still broadcast their messages in towns and cities. But many of those messages are asking for help in defeating the insurgency. To build the trust they need, sadly, military leaders devote a lot of time talking with local leaders. At the 1st Infantry Division's 3rd Brigade, they use lessons they learned in the ethnic cauldron of Kosovo, primarily patience.

COL. DANA PITTARD, U.S. ARMY: What we learned there is for meetings, success is that you wait everybody out; you listen to everybody's issues.

ARRAF: Success, he says, won't be making Iraqis like the American presence here. They probably won't ever do that. It will be to gain their confidence and cooperation in building a new Iraq.

Jane Arraf, CNN, Ba'qubah, Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well, 1992 and politics was dubbed the year of the woman. But this year could change that. More women than ever are running for high office. Still to come, who might be the next political star.

But up next, the quest to end the curse. Game one of the World Series is tonight, and we're live at Fenway Park for a preview.

LARRY SMITH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. I'm Larry Smith here at Fenway Park. Who will be the next World Series champion? We know this, they will wear red. The Cardinals and the Red Sox, a preview coming up live when CNN LIVE SATURDAY continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Boston's mayor is promising an increased police presence around Fenway Park during the World Series, which might seem ironic after a police canister hit a 21-year-old woman, Victoria Snelgrove in the head. She died after that incident. Police officers had to try to break up an unruly crowd at the time, after that playoff game.

Now, an estimated 80,000 Red Sox fans poured into the streets to celebrate Boston's win over the New York Yankees in the American League Championship Series. To give you an idea of what those crowds were like, so consider this, in just a couple of hours the St. Louis Cardinals square off against the Red Sox in Game One of the World Series. CNN's Larry Smith joins me live from Boston with the very latest.

Larry, I don't think the Red Sox have ever won against the Cardinals in a World Series?

SMITH: They never have. They've met twice before. They lost both times, but then again, the Red Sox since 1918, as they have been winless in World Series.

But what a special night tonight, Carol, here at Fenway Park. You know there's something special about antique stadiums and there's no ballpark really in baseball older or more special than Fenway Park. Built in 1912, the oldest park in Major League Baseball, built six years, in fact, before the Red Sox won their last World Series. But the teams are on the field tonight. The Red Sox are taking batting practice. The Cardinals stretching, ready to take their batting practice as they get ready to do battle, if you will, in Game One of this best-of-seven series, the 100th renewal of the World Series.

Now, the starting pitchers for both: Woody Williams is the starting pitcher for St. Louis. Tim Wakefield is the starting pitcher for Boston. The knuckleballer, 38 years old, long career. He's been in playoffs many years with the Pirates and now the Red Sox, finally, in the World Series. It all began eight months ago when these teams reported to spring training and now it's down to either the Cardinals or the Red Sox to decide a champion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN MILLAR, RED SOX OUTFIELDER: This is where you write history. I mean just to be a part of history and to be a part of this atmosphere, I don't think there's a group of guys that deserves it more, because of the non tenors, because of the guys that have been released, because of the guys that haven't been drafted, because of the grinders and your superstars. It's just a -- it's a great mix.

TONY LA RUSSA, CARDINALS MANAGER: I mean it's a time for both fans to be selfish and both teams to be selfish, and you know, they want to win for all their reasons, but we have a clubhouse full of guys that never had a World Series ring. So, you know, we're going to try and be greedy and selfish just like they are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMITH: Two quick things to keep in mind, as the Red Sox leave the field here behind me, St. Louis's defense, only one error in 10 postseason games. And the Red Sox, meanwhile, winningest team since August 1st, 42 and 18 over the final two months of the season.

Carol, let's go back to you.

LIN: It's going to be exciting. Thanks, Larry.

We're also going to return to the election tonight and to questions over the war. Up next, I'm going to speak to two parents who both lost sons in Iraq, but their political views on it and President Bush could not be more different.

Plus, America's future in space, it's not looking very bright. But we're going to visit a school trying to change that, putting interest back into engineering.

And later, no, it's not "Extreme Makeover" or "Survivor," but it could be a mix of the two. Later tonight, meet the trainers behind "The Biggest Loser".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Welcome back. Here's a quick look at what's happening right now in the news.

In Iraq, a pair of suicide car bombings left at least 12 Iraqis dead. The attacks targeted a police station and the National Guard camp.

In Los Angeles, police say they are seeking charges against a man they say could be the most prolific serial killer in the city's history. Thirty-seven-year-old Chester Turner was allegedly linked by DNA evidence to the killings of 13 women.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF WILLIAM BRATTON, LOS ANGELES POLICE: Using DNA evidence, detectives and criminalists with the LAPD Scientific Investigation Division connected Turner to the murders that took place in 1991 -- excuse me, 1987 to 1998.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: An American astronaut and a Russian cosmonaut bid farewell to the Space Station after six months on board. They're heading home with another cosmonaut who's only been up there eight days.

All right, we are just 10 days away from the presidential election, and a brand-new poll from "Newsweek" shows the Bush/Kerry race is a dead heat. There's a number you don't see though, but it could prove important. Fifty-six percent of the people polled are dissatisfied with the way things are going in the country.

Now, Senator John Kerry campaigned in Colorado and New Mexico, and will be in Florida before the day is out. Kerry is telling crowds he will defend America and fight for the middle class.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: We need a president, my friends, who asks you to join together in voting not for your fears but voting for your hopes for this country. That's what this is about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: And President Bush helicoptered around Florida today. He's accusing Kerry of misunderstanding the importance of the war on terrorism. As proof, the president singles out a quote from the Kerry foreign policy adviser who said the war on terror was a metaphor like the war on poverty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Anyone who thinks we're fighting a metaphor does not understand the enemy we face. And you cannot win a war if you're not convinced we are even in one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Well, the war in Iraq is a big issue for a lot of voters. And in fact, it's turning some people into unlikely political campaigners, for example, the parents of those who are fighting in Iraq. Here's a clip from a recent anti-Bush ad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY SHEEHAN, LOST SON IN IRAQ WAR: He died in his best friend's arms in Iraq. I imagined it would have hurt if one of my kids was killed but I never thought it would hurt this bad, especially someone so honest and brave as Casey, my son, when you haven't been honest with us, Mr. Bush.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Cindy Sheehan is the mother in that ad who lost her son in Iraq. She doesn't want the president reelected. She's joining me from Tampa, Florida.

Cindy, first, let me offer my condolences over your son Casey. I know it's still very fresh. You lost him back in April.

SHEEHAN: Thank you.

LIN: You say that President Bush lied to the country. You have you gone out of your way, even during a very private time of grief, to not only speak out but to help the people supporting Kerry create these ads. You opposed the war before your son went. How did your son feel going into battle, knowing how you felt about his mission?

SHEEHAN: He knew that we supported him, and that we were going to support him and his buddies. He didn't agree that Iraq was an imminent threat to the United States, and he didn't agree with this war, but he knew it was his duty and knew that's what he trained for.

LIN: But it was his choice?

SHEEHAN: Right.

LIN: I mean he wanted to serve in the military. So...

SHEEHAN: Yes, he did.

LIN: ... and the point of serving in the military is to serve your country and to follow your commander in chief, which in effect is George W. Bush.

SHEEHAN: Well, I think their commander in chief uses their sense of duty and sense of loyalty and sense of honor for their service and their buddies. He has used it and abused it. And I think a commander in chief should only commit our young people to a war when it's absolutely necessary, and when it's the last resort, and I don't think that this was the case this time.

LIN: Cindy, there are a lot of military families out there who still support the war because they say that's what an American does during a time of war, support the effort, support the commander in chief, support the men and women abroad. Those are the people who would consider you betraying your country by speaking so publicly at this time in the war on terror.

SHEEHAN: I really respect their views. They lost a child. They're entitled to their views. Every American is entitled to their views, whether they have lost a child in this war or not. I just think that this war was based on lies and betrayals to the American people and I think that whoever wins on November 2, they need to bring our troops home as quickly and as intelligently and as safely as possible, and that's what I'm going to fight for.

LIN: Cindy, what would make you feel that at least in the best way or in any kind of justified way as a mother, what would make you feel that Casey died for the right cause? What would justify the grief that you are going through? What would you want to hear?

SHEEHAN: Casey died saving other American lives. I'm very proud of him, and I'm very proud of all of our children that are over there doing the best that they can to keep each other alive. My question is what were any of them doing over there? And my son didn't die in vain. He saved American lives. But I can hear him in heaven saying, "Mom, I died saving my butt buddies, and I can't do that job anymore. It's your turn. Bring my buddies home before any other moms have to go what you're going through, any other families have to go through what you're going through."

LIN: Cindy, thank you very much.

SHEEHAN: Thank you.

LIN: Condy Sheehan who has helped the supporters of John Kerry produce an ad for which she was scripted but decided to go off script and use her own words to tell her story.

I want to get the other side now of this issue from a different parent. William Boesing lost a son in Iraq but he still supports President Bush. He's joining me now from Tampa, Florida.

William, our condolences for the loss of your son Brian. He was killed in March of last year in a fierce battle. Today, there was a memorial of sorts in his honor by the Marine Corps. How did it go?

WILLIAM BOESING, LOST SON IN IRAQ: It went very well. Brian -- we had bricks made for myself, Brian and my dad who -- all three of us were Marines. And, of course, Brian being the one we wanted to be sure got his brick into a place on a garden in the Marine Corps League in front of the barracks up in Brooksville. It was very nice, a very moving ceremony.

LIN: You heard what Cindy Sheehan had to say, and you know personally -- you know her pain very deeply. Why is it that you choose to support President Bush and this war on terror and the continuing war in Iraq when no weapons of mass destruction have been found, continuing reports that there are no connections between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein?

BOESING: At the beginning of this war, my son wrote a letter to me explaining that he was going over to Iraq to help those people and remove a very bad person. The letter I got was five pages long. My son was the kind of guy that wanted to help anybody. And everybody loved Brian. He was just the kind of the person that would be there for everybody and he couldn't wait to get there to help.

We knew there would be danger. Brian was the kind of guy that would be right out in front doing things. And the weapons unit that he was in was in a fierce battle in Nasiriyah. He died on the 23, you know, was killed by a mortar, but he died with a lot of his friends and he was there helping buddies. And we're very proud of Brian. We know he went over there for a reason, and we want the reason that he went there to be finalized by our president.

LIN: I'm sure you are very proud of him, and a lot to be proud of your son especially with the military tradition, third generation.

BOESING: Yes, ma'am.

LIN: Amazing. Listen, you know, he was in a place where we talk a lot about democracy, bringing democracy to the Iraqi people. When you have a situation there where there is barely any water, barely any electricity, people are too afraid to even leave their homes, do you ever wonder whether you're son died in vain, if that was his mission to bring freedom to the Iraqi people? What sort of freedom is this?

BOESING: They'll get their freedom, I'm sure of it. The people I've talked to, there's been several people over there and have come back, and a lot want to go back again to help because they know that things are getting done. We need to get them done to get our troops home obviously.

And I -- my heart goes out to everybody, including Cindy. Cindy is a wonderful person. I met her for the first time today. It's a tragic situation but they're there for a reason. They enlisted. My son wanted to go. He was a Marine, and like they say, Marines die, unfortunately, when the Marine Corps and the United States don't. And that's the reason is people go over there and do these things for us. They'll go until they can get this thing finished.

LIN: And you think President Bush is the man to lead them into battle?

BOESING: Absolutely. He's been -- President Bush, I feel, has a mission. He's looking to -- he's focused and that takes care of my situation as far as that goes. I want him to finish the situation, get it over with. I don't see anything clear in Mr. Kerry's -- in his politics. He just kind of goes back and forth, so I'd rather get Mr. Bush to get this thing over with.

LIN: William Boesing, thank you very much for your time.

BOESING: Thank you. I appreciate it.

LIN: All right, very different opinion in a heart loss -- heart rendering situation.

In the meantime, on the political stage, you might recall 1992 was called the year of the woman in politics. There were 22 women elected to Congress at that time. But 2004 is giving it a run for its money with a record number of women running for the House of Representatives this year. Alina Cho reports on that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Pennsylvania's 13th district, a coming of age.

MELISSA BROWN (R), PA CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Hi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

BROWN: MELISSA BROWN.

CHO: Republican Melissa Brown running against Democrat Allyson Schwartz for the Philadelphia suburbs open seat, one of 11 races for House seats where women are competing against other women and gender isn't the biggest issue on the platform.

BROWN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and they said oh, we'll vote for you. You're a woman, immediately, I say, I'm running against a woman.

ALLYSON SCHWARZ, (D), PA CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: I've been surprised that that's been less of an issue than you might think and maybe that's what we've gotten to in 2004.

CHO (on camera): What we've gotten to is a record 139 women running for U.S. House seats this year. Ten women are running for the Senate, three for governor. Of the House seats, roughly a third of the competitive districts feature a female candidate. And if all of them win, 12 more women will be heading to Washington, adding to the 74 female members of Congress who are already there.

SCHWARZ: The competitive races around the country, majority of women candidates are running in suburban districts. Suburban Philadelphia, suburban New York, suburban Illinois.

CHO (voice-over): Places where so-called kitchen table platforms like health care and education dominate the discourse. Candidates to watch, Republican Cathy McMorris, the favorite to win a House seat in Spokane, Washington. Political newcomer Stephanie Herseth is a Democrat doing well in conservative South Dakota. Back in Pennsylvania and the Brown/Schwartz race, proof that women are equally as adept as their male counterparts at slinging mud.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's back, Melissa Brown, with her gross distortions, her outright lies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allyson Schwarz wants you to think she's tough on crime, take a look.

CHO: It's equally ugly in debates.

SCHWARZ: Hang on one second...

BROWN: I was just going to say...

SCHWARZ: Let me just say that...

(CROSSTALK)

CHO: And with a little more than a week to go before the election, may the best woman win.

Alina Cho, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Still ahead tonight, a Maryland high school tries to combat a growing trend that could impact generations to come.

And trying to carve into this giant, later, the pumpkin that needs a pickup to get around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: So, do you think the U.S. really is hurting its ability to compete in a high-tech world? Why you should care? Because a third of the students enrolled in American graduate science and engineering programs are not from the United States. Our Kathleen Koch reports that visa caps are trimming those numbers even more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Prashant Nagaraddi is an I.T. developer studying and working in the U.S. for nearly 10 years. But now, new visa caps are limiting the number of such highly trained foreign professionals who can work here in jobs companies say they can't find U.S. citizens to fill.

PRASHANT NAGARADDI, I.T. DEVELOPER: Definitely, they contribute to American companies and I think they make the companies more competitive.

KOCH: During the tech boom, nearly 200,000 such visas were granted to foreign professionals. But the bubble popped and at the end of this year just a third of that number were given. High-tech companies insist that's not enough now that the tech economy is recovering.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to compete at the absolute highest levels. The absolute highest levels means finding the most skilled and talented people wherever they might be born.

KOCH: Part of the problem, the Education Department says, U.S. high school students ranked just 20th worldwide in science and 25th in math scores. Less than five percent of college degrees awarded in this country are in science and engineering.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The students who have got the intelligence or the intellect that are able to handle the math and the science increasingly are going into fields of law or business or medicine where they think there is probably more money as a professional.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fenosaline (ph) is what is in the small test tube...

KOCH: Some educators are trying to change. Schools in Prince George's County, Maryland, now require lab participation and a conceptual physics course. Local universities are helping better train teachers in science and math.

SHIRLEY JALLOW, PRINCE GEORGE'S COUNTY SCHOOLS: High school physics teachers are a very rare breed, and that affects your capacity to offer physics, honors physics, A.P. physics. And those are some of the cornerstones that you need if you're going to be serious about pursuing a science or engineering-based major.

KOCH (on camera): Some believe companies could do more to draw U.S. students to jobs in the maths and sciences by making them more lucrative.

(voice-over): They want the visa cap to stay in place to give U.S. high-tech workers a better shot at jobs instead of increasingly relying on talent from abroad.

Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And up next, the race to lose weight, the new reality show that pays to shed the pounds. I'm going to be talking to the trainers making it all happen so stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A battle and a war, OK. We have to keep our eye on the prize.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would like for us to do two hours of cardio a night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't even want you guys to go to bed. I just want you to round robin.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No going to bed?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How bad do you want it?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: OK, that was a scene from NBC's latest reality show, "The Biggest Loser". Now some are calling it a competitive and encouraging weight loss boot camp using old-fashioned hard work and dieting. But others call it humiliating, unhealthy, exploitative. Joining me now from Los Angles are the show's two trainers with two different diets, two different approaches, Bob Harper, Jillian Michaels. Jillian, you're the strength trainer for the red team.

Bob, have you trained illustrious people like Gwyneth Paltrow, Selma Blair, Laura Dern. First of all, Bob, what do you know -- don't -- those people are like this big. What do you know about fat people?

BOB HARPER, TRAINER, "THE BIGGEST LOSER": Well, this job really taught me to do what I do well.

LIN: I mean these people weigh like -- they weigh 200, 300, 400 pounds some of these people.

HARPER: Oh yes. I mean it was a challenge. When I met these people, I went wow; I've really got my work cut out for me.

LIN: Yes.

And Jillian, that was you in the clip. I mean of all the clips we could pick, you are telling these people they are in a war. You're telling them they're doing two hours of cardio. And there was one part in the first episode where you told these people they had to make up such a deficit they had to work out all night. You're scary!

JILLIAN MICHAELS, TRAINER, "THE BIGGEST LOSER": Well, thank you, Carol, OK.

HARPER: She's tough.

MICHAELS: OK. Yes, I am hard on them, and I am tough on them. But you have to understand that, you know, there is some greed of editing going on here. I mean these editors have a tough job cut out for them. They have to take eight to 10 days of material and reduce it into 44 minutes. So I also care for them very much, and take care of them. And when they came home from that challenge, they basically said to me, Jillian, you know, we want to win this way and do whatever it takes. And then I said OK, guys. And that's where it went to, you know, look, this is going to be hell. This is going to be really hard. And then I want us to do two hours of cardio tonight, and let's just move it and let's work hard.

LIN: Because you're very different approaches between the two of you and your teams. Bob, basic philosophy is they eat more often through the day, smaller portions throughout the day, to keep metabolism up. And you started with a pep talk in trying to get them to address some of their fears and their -- you know what they get out of eating.

HARPER: Right.

LIN: Jillian, obviously, you have much tougher tactics. You want them to eat less, exercise more. But Bob, tell me about your approach and why you think that's going to work with people who may have compulsive eating disorders.

HARPER: Well, with my diet, the Eat More Diet, it's all about eating about five small meals throughout the course of the day. You have your breakfast, lunch, dinner and then two snacks throughout the day; get your metabolism up and going. And the way that my philosophy works with the personal training aspect of it is it's getting to know them, working from the inside out and finding what their strengths, weaknesses are...

LIN: Right.

HARPER: ... and then fuel from that.

LIN: Right.

HARPER: Make them feel good about themselves. Really, the main objective for me is to make them feel good about themselves.

LIN: But it was so hard in the beginning because, you know when they had the initial weigh-in and they had to go in -- get into their bathing suits?

HARPER: That's a...

LIN: And -- go ahead, Bob.

HARPER: That is so tough. Can you imagine? Standing in front of America.

LIN: In front of all of America, yes.

HARPER: Standing in front of America in their bathing suit. That took courage. These people are courageous.

MICHAELS: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

HARPER: They are inspirational. They have changed us. I mean we are two changed individuals because of them.

LIN: But they have this -- I don't know if you call it -- it was a competition or a stunt where they had to race in these small boxcars and the only way they could transition the drivers was to pull the person from the inside through a small window. It was -- obviously to see obese people being pulled through a small opening, that was pretty tough, you know.

MICHAELS: Actually, I completely disagree. And I'm glad you brought up this because first all, you have to understand when people say exploitive, these people competed against thousands of people across this country for these 12 coveted positions, They want to be here. They came to this show and said "I am unhealthy and I am unhappy, please help me."

LIN: But what are they willing to do on national television, Jillian, to lose that weight?

MICHAELS: Can I ask you, though, not only did they complete that challenge, they completed it well. I mean, they kicked butt!

HARPER: And it's like going into the real world, when you go to a race car -- when you're in a race car...

LIN: Right.

HARPER: ...their -- the doors don't open. You've got to go -- you got to climb through the window to get into that...

LIN: Yes, but the race car driver doesn't weigh 300 pounds, you know.

MICHAELS: Here's what I say to you, though -- OK, so then I want to turn this back around and here's what I would like to say is how come when you watch shows -- other reality shows where there are psychologically daunting physical challenges much like this one, no one says a word.

HARPER: Eating the worst possible things you could eat.

MICHAELS: Or you know jumping off buildings. No one says a word.

HARPER: I don't eat bugs. Do you eat bugs?

LIN: Eating bugs, no, I wouldn't eat bugs.

MICHAELS: But you say...

LIN: You guys make -- you do make a really good point because...

MICHAELS: Well, you say...

LIN: ...what is so compelling about this show, Jillian, is that how much, just on a strictly emotional level, it means to the people to lose this weight and stay on the show. I mean it's not just a competition. It just goes to the absolute core of who these people are and who they want to be. So we're going to keep track of the show. I know. But you what? Would you come back on?

MICHAELS: Absolutely.

LIN: Let's talk -- we'll talk more. We're going to continue this discussion as these people progress through the show, because I think it's fascinating and I think everybody is facing this kind of challenge in their life, wants to know how these people are going to do it and how you guys are going to help them.

MICHAELS: Absolutely.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: OK.

MICHAELS: Yes.

LIN: Thanks, Bob Harper, Jillian Michaels, so much.

HARPER: Thank you. LIN: Great show. All right, much more still ahead tonight. In fact, tonight, I'm going to be talking, well, frankly with this past week's biggest loser, Dana, who got kicked off the show, see how she feels, how she's doing and what's next for her now that she doesn't have this competition to help her lose the weight.

That's all the time we have this hour. I'm going to toss it to Mark Shields to see what's happening on "THE CAP GANG" tonight.

Hi there, Mark.

MARK SHIELDS, CO-HOST, "THE CAPITAL GANG": Hey, Carol. My personal trainer is Bob Novak, but THE CAPITAL GANG will look at the final push for the White House by President Bush and Senator Kerry. Who has the edge going into these final days and how has the flu vaccine shortage infected politics? All that much and more right here next on CNN.

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