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CNN Crossfire
Explosive Charges Dominate Campaign Trail
Aired October 28, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: The candidates go on the attack over missing explosives and questions of character.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president's shifting explanations and excuses and attacks on me demonstrate once again that this president believes the buck stops everywhere, but with the president of the United States.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Senator Kerry will say anything to get elected. The senator's willingness to trade principle for political convenience makes it clear that John Kerry is the wrong man for the wrong job at the wrong time.
ANNOUNCER: Are the attacks winning any votes? In their final days, the campaigns are calling on the Boss and the Terminator. Will star power make a difference?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.
(APPLAUSE)
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
November 2 is almost here. And you know what that means. Time to accuse the Republican Party of racism. Democrats have been doing it for 40 years. Does it still work? We'll see. But, just in case, this season, Democrats are also accusing the White House of helping terrorists get their hands on bombs.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Well, the bottom line is, President Bush had enough troops to guard the Oil Ministry, but not enough to guard 380 tons of high-powered explosives. And now the Bushies are blaming our troops for Mr. Bush's foul-up. How low can they go? Well, we'll plumb the depths today in the CROSSFIRE.
But, first, let's descend into the deepest, darkest reaches of American politics with the best little political briefing in television, the CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
This we know. Days before the invasion of Iraq, hundreds of tons of high-powered explosives were under U.N. seal in the Al-Qaqaa compound. In October of this year, the president was told that 380 tons of explosives were missing, perhaps in the hands of terrorists. The Bush administration has at turns claimed that the 101st Airborne searched the compound and found nothing. But then the brigade commander from the 101st said that was false.
Next, the Bushies claimed the 3rd Infantry Division had actually inspected the in fact a week earlier. Not true, says the commander of that brigade. "The New York Times" documents looting at the facility after the U.S. invasion. Now, it is true we don't have all the facts. But we do have enough to question both the competence and the honesty of the Bush administration's handling of this issue, like so much facets of Mr. Bush's debacle in the desert.
CARLSON: I think it's fair to question the competence. I think it is a big deal if any site containing weapons is looted by people who might be terrorists. I don't think it's fair to question their honesty.
The interesting thing from a political point of view is, the White House didn't even respond to this story for four days. They were asked by "The New York Times" last Thursday and they seemed to accept it at face value. They didn't know anything about it. They were off their game politically and I think it hurt them.
But I do think it is fair to ask, you know, why wasn't this place guarded? But nobody is blaming the troops.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Actually, Rudy Giuliani did today on "The Today Show." And we're going to do...
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: Actually, I'll read you the quote in a little while.
CARLSON: Come on.
Well, it is bad enough to be hated by total strangers. But when the people who know you best show you contempt, it hurts. Just ask John Kerry, whose own hometown newspaper endorsed George W. Bush last week.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: In an editorial that blasted the Massachusetts senator as weak, indecisive and, in general, pretty lame. That's nothing compared to what Curt Schilling said just today. Schilling, of course, is the pitcher for the Boston Red Sox, who last night won the World Series for the first time since 1918, an historic moment. This morning on "Good Morning America," Schilling ended his triumphant interview this way -- quote -- "Make sure you tell everybody to vote and vote Bush next week" -- end quote.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: So here is the question. Here's the question we're debating in Washington. Is Curt Schilling an evil, evil right-wing hack, as Democrats will no doubt contend soon, or is he the greatest pitcher in Major League Baseball who also happens to have point good tastes in politics?
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: The choice is yours November 2.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Is he evil? He's evil, isn't he?
BEGALA: Well, first, let me set the record straight about hometown papers. "The Boston Herald" is a right-wing rag. I think it's owned Rupert Murdoch. They don't count.
CARLSON: It's not. It's not owned by Rupert Murdoch.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Well, OK. It probably will be by the time this show is over, because he's buying everything...
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Is Curt Schilling evil?
BEGALA: But Bush's hometown paper in Crawford, Texas, the Crawford, Texas, paper has endorsed John Kerry.
CARLSON: It's a weekly -- oh, please, give me a break.
BEGALA: "The Texas Iconoclast."
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: No, but is Curt Schilling evil? Is he a right-wing hack?
BEGALA: Let me be clear.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: He's evil, isn't he? He's bad. BEGALA: Let me clear. Good for Curt Schilling. I like when anybody enters the political fray. He happens to be desperately wrong about this, but what the hell. He's a good pitcher. And I'm glad he's speaking out.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I do hope everybody votes. But God bless Curt Schilling. God bless the Red Sox.
Well, speaking of Republicans, Tony Fabrizio is a very talented Republican pollster. And his new survey out today shows, like most surveys, that the race is tied 47-47. But Mr. Fabrizio notes something interesting note. That is, if minority voters turn out this year as strongly as they did in 2000, Kerry jumps to a 3.5 percent lead over Mr. Bush.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: And if minorities vote equal to their population in the census, Senator Kerry will win by more than five points. No wonder Democrats are doing all they can to encourage minority participation and no wonder Republicans are a little nervous about a big turnout in a minority community.
In fact, one Bush campaign official committed the sin of candor some months ago, telling "The Detroit Free Press" -- quote -- "If we don't suppress the Detroit vote, we're going to have a tough time in this election" -- unquote. For those of you keeping score at home, the Detroit vote is 83 percent black. So consider that next time the someone tells you there's no desire by Republicans to suppress the black vote.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: I love this. You guys try this every four years. It is disgusting every time.
BEGALA: They do.
CARLSON: But this time, black voters, as you know, not super- enthusiastic for Kerry. They'll probably vote for him I think in pretty high numbers. But they don't love him.
And so, in an effort to get them whipped into a frenzy, Democrats are calling Republicans racists. My new favorite is Ken Blackwell, secretary of state Ohio, he is now a racist, apparently.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Ken Blackwell...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... racist.
BEGALA: What about this Bush official? Suppress. What do you think he meant when he said suppress the Detroit vote?
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: Give me an alternative explanation.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: What else could it mean? What else could it mean, suppress the Detroit vote.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... racist, yes.
BEGALA: What else could it mean? It's their stated policy.
CARLSON: It is such an old attack, I don't think it gets you anywhere.
BEGALA: Because they keep trying to suppress black votes. That's why it's an old attack.
CARLSON: Have fun. Have fun.
Well, for most Democrats, voting for John Kerry is like taking bad-tasting medicine, unpleasant but maybe necessary.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Above all Democrats find it a way to get George W. Bush out of the White House. And yet there are some Democrats out there who actually like John Kerry. A few believe, it or not, may actually worship the man.
You will remember a few weeks ago, John Edwards struck a messianic note by claiming that if Kerry is elected, the lame will rise from their wheelchairs and walk.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Well, now comes singer Bruce Springsteen, who said this vote about Kerry today at rally in Madison, Wisconsin.
Vote for Kerry, claims Springsteen, and you'll get -- quote -- "healing the sick, feeding the hungry, housing the homeless." Springsteen didn't mention making the blind see, the deaf hear, or turning water into wine, but the day is still young.
BEGALA: Now, let me get the consistency here.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Jesus, John Kerry, not the same thing. (APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Let me get the consistency. So Curt Schilling, who is a good pitcher, but doesn't know anything about politics, he is a good guy because he is endorsing Bush.
CARLSON: Well, he didn't claim Bush is Jesus.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: But Bruce Springsteen, Bruce Springsteen...
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: You're missing it, Paul.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: He didn't claim supernatural powers for Bush.
BEGALA: President Kerry -- and get used to it -- President Kerry will have policies that extend health insurance.
CARLSON: But will he have supernatural powers?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: President Bush has taken five million people off the health care rolls, Tucker.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I know. I know. He's evil.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He has cut health care.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I know he's bad. I know.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Let me ask you a question.
BEGALA: He has hurt poor people. It is true.
CARLSON: You're trying to talk over me. Let me ask you a question.
BEGALA: It's true. It's true.
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: Will John Kerry be able to make the lame walk? Will they rise out of their wheelchairs and walk when he's president?
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: That's my question.
BEGALA: I'll tell you what. The one lame person he's going to help is George W. Bush. He's going to help him get a new job.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: He couldn't be more...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Well.
BEGALA: First, they couldn't find the WMD in Iraq, and now the Bush team is trying to explain away missing tons of explosives. We'll debate the president's performance and Senator Kerry's alternatives just ahead.
And just what does Dracula have to do with this campaign? Find out later in the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
The case of the missing munitions in Iraq has lit a fire in these waning days of the presidential campaign. President Bush again today was on the defensive, claiming that John Kerry has jumped to conclusions without all the facts, a serious charge that, almost as serious as jumping into a war without knowing all the facts.
Joining us in the CROSSFIRE to debate all the facts, syndicated radio talk show host G. Gordon Liddy and Bill Press, longtime co-host of this broadcast and the author of the great best-selling book "Bush Must Go: Top Ten Reasons Why George W. Bush Doesn't Deserve a Second Term."
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Welcome back.
BILL PRESS, AUTHOR, "BUSH MUST GO": Thank you.
CARLSON: Bill, it is great to see you. PRESS: From the left.
CARLSON: Bill Press.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: And from the honest left. That is one of the things I love you about, Bill.
PRESS: Thank you, Tucker.
CARLSON: That you're honest and you say...
BEGALA: As opposed to...
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: No, no.
PRESS: Thank you, Tucker.
CARLSON: And you say what you really think, regardless of...
PRESS: And, you know, I'm fond of you, too. So I bought you a present, a bumper sticker of "Bush Must Go."
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Oh, that is fantastic. I just don't know what it means. What does that mean?
PRESS: This is for the -- it is for the Bentley.
BEGALA: The Bentley or the Jaguar.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: The Jag, either one.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Pathetic.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: OK, here is something that you wrote May 21, 2004, in your column. I'm an avid reader of it.
You said -- quote -- "The situation is not going to improve in Iraq no matter how many more Iraqis we kill. The sooner we get out there, the better." Fair point. John Kerry doesn't agree with you at all. He wants to stay the course, possibly add more troops. Here's my question. Why aren't you voting for Ralph Nader, who shares this view?
PRESS: Because Ralph Nader is a loser.
(LAUGHTER)
PRESS: Listen, John Kerry doesn't agree with me on this issue. I don't agree with him on this issue.
But the point is, Tucker, that Iraq is a disaster. We shouldn't have gone there in the first place. The way George Bush has done it is a disaster. The occupation is a disaster. And this 380 tons of missing weapons is emblematic of how he screwed up the entire effort over there. And that's George Bush's responsibility. It's not John Kerry's responsibility.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Well, but, I think even you will concede that George W. Bush didn't do it alone. I want to read you another quote from Ralph Nader. Listen carefully.
PRESS: By whom?
CARLSON: Ralph Nader. Listen carefully. You may be won over.
Quote: "The Democrats were complicit in this war. They could have stopped that war resolution in the Senate, but they did not."
That is absolutely, unarguably true. Ralph Nader points out that the Democrats are behind this, too. Why are you holding them to the same standard you're holding the administration?
PRESS: That's another reason I won't vote for Ralph Nader, because doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
Look, this is George Bush's war. He made the decision to go to war based on no weapons of mass destruction, no nukes, no contact -- or connection with Osama bin Laden, and no threat to the United States. He never had a plan to win the peace. He never sent enough troops over there to protect our own forces. He never told our troops to guard this facility, so that they don't steal these 380 tons of explosives and then use those against the troops. The only thing he told them to protect was the Oil Ministry in Iraq. It is George Bush's war and he's got to take responsibility.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Amen. I couldn't agree more. This won't shock you, Gordon.
But, first, I love this book. I want to ask you, even as quickly as page seven, there's a profound truth in here that I want to read from Bill's book and then show you that it's not just the left that thinks so. It's the whole United States of America. Here is what Bill wrote in his book. "What's the worst thing a president could do? Get drunk on the job? Prance around naked on the Truman Balcony? That's all pretty bad. But there's something a whole lot worse. The worst thing a president could ever do is take this country to war on false pretenses. And that's exactly what George Bush did."
Now, lest you think that's just liberal hyperbole, "The New York Times" surveyed American popular opinion, as newspapers will do. In October, they asked this question: When President Bush talks about how things are going in Iraq, do you think he is telling the entire truth or hiding something or mostly lying? Only a quarter of the country thinks he's telling the truth. Three-quarters of the country thinks he's either hiding something or he's mostly lying.
The president has a major credibility crisis here, doesn't he?
G. GORDON LIDDY, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, you know, I'm glad you asked that, because what I have brought here is form 180, which was signed by President Bush to release all his records, including even his dental records, but has yet to be signed by your candidate, Senator Kerry.
And Senator Kerry's...
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Form 180.
LIDDY: Senator Kerry's discharge was received following the review by a board of officers. When I got my honorable discharge, it wasn't from a board of officers.
Now, the reason you get it from a board of officers is if it's been upgraded.
BEGALA: Because he was drunk in a bar in Alabama, right? Kerry never went to Vietnam. Oh, wait. That was somebody else.
LIDDY: No, because it's been upgraded, upgraded. And upgraded from what? Less than honorable. So we can clear this up if Kerry will just sign. Here. I know you'll see him before I do.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I'll see him at the inaugural ball. I know that. I'll ask him about what 180, stroke, niner-niner.
But let me repeat the question and just ask you to answer it. When three-fourths of the country thinks our president is either hiding or lying something about the war, that's a catastrophe, isn't it?
LIDDY: If "The New York Times" says three-quarters of the people think one thing, probably three-quarters of the people think 180 degrees opposite.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
LIDDY: I mean, "The New York Times..."
CARLSON: Now, but, Bill Press...
PRESS: I just want to point out, Gordon says he has got documents that prove that George Bush completed his service in the National Guard. I have got documents that prove Al Gore won the last election.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
PRESS: You know?
CARLSON: Now, Bill, wait. No, Bill, Bill...
PRESS: I mean, come on.
CARLSON: You -- and in your book, point 10 for why Bush must go is that he's a liar. This is a contention the Democrats have been making for the past two years. Bush is actually very, very dishonest.
And I'm just struck by -- this is not -- I'm not, like Paul, going to put a poll up from August. Here's a poll just from...
BEGALA: This is October.
CARLSON: This is a poll from October 22. A "USA Today"/Gallup poll asked, who is more honest and trustworthy, Bush or Kerry? Forty- seven to forty-two, people think Bush is more honest and more trustworthy. I wonder why people just haven't bought the notion that Bush is a liar?
PRESS: Tucker, George Bush is going to lose this election because the American people have caught on to the fact that they cannot trust George Bush.
The last reason in that book that I have is actually called broken promises, right? One broken promise, he promised that he was a uniter, not a divider.
CARLSON: OK, but wait a second.
PRESS: The only thing he has united is the Democratic Party to take him down.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I think you are absolutely right that the party has gone insane.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: No. No, they're united behind John Kerry. (CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: It is definitely filled with hate and...
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: Insane does not mean united, Tucker.
CARLSON: They hate George W. Bush. There's no question about that.
PRESS: No. No.
CARLSON: But to the question of honesty.
PRESS: No, they love America. They don't hate George W. Bush. They love America.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: But all of the critiques -- of all of the critiques of Bush -- of all of the critiques of Bush that you could come up with, that he's incompetent, that he's wrong on this policy or that policy, Democrats have chosen an attack on his character, that he's a liar. And the polls show people don't buy. And it's an honest question.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Why don't people believe that when you say he's a liar?
PRESS: Well, it depends on what character is, OK? During the Clinton years, Republicans redefined character to mean an act of oral sex, all right?
I think character is a lot bigger than that. I think character is telling truth to the American people.
CARLSON: People say Bush tells the truth.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: George Bush does not tell the truth to the American people. He didn't tell us the truth, Tucker, about -- do I have to repeat? -- weapons of mass destruction, nuclear weapons, connection to Saddam Hussein. He still is not telling the truth. He's going around there saying that John Kerry wants the federal government to take care over health care. That's a lie. That's a lie.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Actually, three-fourths of the country, as I pointed out a moment ago, in a survey, said that they believe the president is hiding or lying something about Iraq.
PRESS: And I think character means admitting you're wrong when you make a mistake. And that's something George Bush will never do. (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Gordon, this controversy about the 380 tons of missing explosives, the Bush campaign has been bollixed up about it, can't quite find a way to blame it on John Kerry or Bill Clinton, but they're working on it.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Until that time, though, they found a scapegoat, not the commander in chief, our troops in the field.
Rudy Giuliani, a good guy and an able politician, said a stunning thing morning on "The Today Show." He said: "The actual responsibility for it really would be for the troops that were there. Did they search carefully enough? Didn't they search carefully enough?"
Now, you yourself are a veteran. Your son is heroically serving our country. Isn't it loathsome for politicians to blame the troops for something that the commander in chief messed up?
LIDDY: No, I don't think commander in chief messed it up.
BEGALA: Well, why are they blaming the terror, though?
LIDDY: It was not the duty of George Bush to stand with an M-16 in front of the door of that place.
The fact is that the Soviets, Spetsnaz people, came in with special forces troops and a transportation company and moved a lot of stuff out of there.
BEGALA: We let the Soviets in there?
(CROSSTALK)
LIDDY: No, this was before.
BEGALA: The Soviets haven't been around since '89, by the way.
(CROSSTALK)
LIDDY: Before the war. That stuff had been missing since before the war. There were no IAEA-tagged stuff there when either the 101st went in there or the 3rd Infantry Division went in there.
PRESS: Gordon, you're hallucinating.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
PRESS: That's absolutely -- no, that's absolutely not true.
A Pentagon official on October 25 told the Associated Press that they checked that bunker after the invasion, March 2003, after the invasion and the seals were still there. These were taken after the war.
(CROSSTALK)
LIDDY: ... who was with the 101st Airborne Division was interviewed yesterday. He was there. He was the troop who was there. He said the doors were open.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: We're going to pick this up. We are going to have to take a quick break.
Gordon Liddy, Bill Press, hang on just a second. We're going to be right back.
And next, in the "Rapid Fire," we all know President Bush doesn't have a health care plan, but, apparently, he is doing some doctoring of photographs in his campaign ads. We'll show you in a minute.
And Yasser Arafat has left his compound for medical treatment. Wolf Blitzer will bring you the latest on where he's headed right after the break.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting from New York.
Coming up at the top of the hour, as Election Day approaches, new legal battles over voting procedures are getting increasingly more intense. Will there be a repeat of the election 2000 fiasco? We'll have the latest from Florida and Ohio. The Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat will fly to Paris for medical tests. A big question in the Middle East right now, what happens after Arafat? And big changes at your bank -- why that old excuse the check is in the mail won't work anymore.
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: Welcome back. It is time now for "Rapid Fire," where we hit our guests with questions faster than John Kerry can make another reference to the Red Sox.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: In the CROSSFIRE today, Bill Press, our old friend, longtime CROSSFIRE co-host and author of the best-selling book "Bush Must Go," also, nationally syndicated radio talk show host G. Gordon Liddy.
BEGALA: Gordon, it turns out, not only is the Bush campaign blaming our heroic troops for their mistakes in not securing the munitions dump. They are now cloning them. Now, I thought they were against human cloning. Take a look at this picture from a Bush advertisement.
First off, pretty low to use active duty soldiers from the 10th Mountain Division as campaign props. They are not fighting for Republican Party. They are fighting for our country. But worse still, they are doctoring their photographs. This is really a problem, isn't it?
LIDDY: Well, I thought you were going to get on the real scandal. You know the wolf ad? It is all the same wolf.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Touche.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... I have to say.
Bill, there's no...
PRESS: This reminds me. This is as phony as George Bush's campaign crowds. They stack them, right, with people who...
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: ... people who take a blood test before they're allowed in.
CARLSON: Back to reality here.
PRESS: Reality? Here?
CARLSON: There is no foreign leader, I think even you will admit -- there is no foreign leader more popular with rank-and-file Democrats than Yasser Arafat. No foreign leader went to the Clinton White House more often. When he dies, will John Kerry call for a nationwide moment of silence?
PRESS: No, that's not true, Tucker.
(LAUGHTER)
PRESS: Really, he's not the most popular among Democrats. Osama bin Laden is the most popular among Democrats.
(LAUGHTER)
PRESS: I mean, if you really want to get low, if you really want to get low, go there.
CARLSON: You said it, not me. It's true. Clinton helped him get him the Peace Prize.
PRESS: No.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: He didn't?
PRESS: Look, I'm no fan of Yasser Arafat. But let me tell you this. If George Bush had met with Yasser Arafat even once, maybe the peace process would still be on track in the Middle East.
(BELL RINGING)
PRESS: He has ignored it completely.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: That will have to be the last word from Bill Press, longtime co-host of this broadcast.
Good to see you again. The book is "Bush Must Go: Top Ten Reasons Why George W. Bush Doesn't Deserve a Second Term."
And G. Gordon Liddy, from the right, nationally syndicated radio talk show host.
Thank you both for a fun debate.
At times, this year's presidential campaign may have seemed just a bit scary to you. Next, we'll share a Halloween twist you can really sink your teeth into.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: In their effort to learn just everything they can about our president and his challenger, John Kerry, the CROSSFIRE staff has left no stone unturned, even, this Halloween week, tombstones.
Well, it turns out that President Bush and Senator Kerry just might be related. Ancestry.com says the '04 opponents are ninth cousins, twice removed. Not only that. Their respective family trees trace both back to the Transylvanian warlord Vlad Dracul, better known as Dracula, whose life inspired, of course, Bram Stoker's dark vampire novel. It could be that's why they call politicians bloodsuckers, Tucker. I don't know.
CARLSON: Honestly, this is not a partisan point, Paul, but answer this question as honestly as you can. Which candidate looks more like Dracula? Be honest.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Come on.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Which candidate looks more like Dracula?
From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again for more CROSSFIRE tomorrow, Friday. The election is almost here. Don't miss it.
Wolf Blitzer follows us.
We'll be right back -- tomorrow. See you.
(LAUGHTER)
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Aired October 28, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: The candidates go on the attack over missing explosives and questions of character.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president's shifting explanations and excuses and attacks on me demonstrate once again that this president believes the buck stops everywhere, but with the president of the United States.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Senator Kerry will say anything to get elected. The senator's willingness to trade principle for political convenience makes it clear that John Kerry is the wrong man for the wrong job at the wrong time.
ANNOUNCER: Are the attacks winning any votes? In their final days, the campaigns are calling on the Boss and the Terminator. Will star power make a difference?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.
(APPLAUSE)
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
November 2 is almost here. And you know what that means. Time to accuse the Republican Party of racism. Democrats have been doing it for 40 years. Does it still work? We'll see. But, just in case, this season, Democrats are also accusing the White House of helping terrorists get their hands on bombs.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Well, the bottom line is, President Bush had enough troops to guard the Oil Ministry, but not enough to guard 380 tons of high-powered explosives. And now the Bushies are blaming our troops for Mr. Bush's foul-up. How low can they go? Well, we'll plumb the depths today in the CROSSFIRE.
But, first, let's descend into the deepest, darkest reaches of American politics with the best little political briefing in television, the CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
This we know. Days before the invasion of Iraq, hundreds of tons of high-powered explosives were under U.N. seal in the Al-Qaqaa compound. In October of this year, the president was told that 380 tons of explosives were missing, perhaps in the hands of terrorists. The Bush administration has at turns claimed that the 101st Airborne searched the compound and found nothing. But then the brigade commander from the 101st said that was false.
Next, the Bushies claimed the 3rd Infantry Division had actually inspected the in fact a week earlier. Not true, says the commander of that brigade. "The New York Times" documents looting at the facility after the U.S. invasion. Now, it is true we don't have all the facts. But we do have enough to question both the competence and the honesty of the Bush administration's handling of this issue, like so much facets of Mr. Bush's debacle in the desert.
CARLSON: I think it's fair to question the competence. I think it is a big deal if any site containing weapons is looted by people who might be terrorists. I don't think it's fair to question their honesty.
The interesting thing from a political point of view is, the White House didn't even respond to this story for four days. They were asked by "The New York Times" last Thursday and they seemed to accept it at face value. They didn't know anything about it. They were off their game politically and I think it hurt them.
But I do think it is fair to ask, you know, why wasn't this place guarded? But nobody is blaming the troops.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Actually, Rudy Giuliani did today on "The Today Show." And we're going to do...
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: Actually, I'll read you the quote in a little while.
CARLSON: Come on.
Well, it is bad enough to be hated by total strangers. But when the people who know you best show you contempt, it hurts. Just ask John Kerry, whose own hometown newspaper endorsed George W. Bush last week.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: In an editorial that blasted the Massachusetts senator as weak, indecisive and, in general, pretty lame. That's nothing compared to what Curt Schilling said just today. Schilling, of course, is the pitcher for the Boston Red Sox, who last night won the World Series for the first time since 1918, an historic moment. This morning on "Good Morning America," Schilling ended his triumphant interview this way -- quote -- "Make sure you tell everybody to vote and vote Bush next week" -- end quote.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: So here is the question. Here's the question we're debating in Washington. Is Curt Schilling an evil, evil right-wing hack, as Democrats will no doubt contend soon, or is he the greatest pitcher in Major League Baseball who also happens to have point good tastes in politics?
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: The choice is yours November 2.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Is he evil? He's evil, isn't he?
BEGALA: Well, first, let me set the record straight about hometown papers. "The Boston Herald" is a right-wing rag. I think it's owned Rupert Murdoch. They don't count.
CARLSON: It's not. It's not owned by Rupert Murdoch.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Well, OK. It probably will be by the time this show is over, because he's buying everything...
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Is Curt Schilling evil?
BEGALA: But Bush's hometown paper in Crawford, Texas, the Crawford, Texas, paper has endorsed John Kerry.
CARLSON: It's a weekly -- oh, please, give me a break.
BEGALA: "The Texas Iconoclast."
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: No, but is Curt Schilling evil? Is he a right-wing hack?
BEGALA: Let me be clear.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: He's evil, isn't he? He's bad. BEGALA: Let me clear. Good for Curt Schilling. I like when anybody enters the political fray. He happens to be desperately wrong about this, but what the hell. He's a good pitcher. And I'm glad he's speaking out.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I do hope everybody votes. But God bless Curt Schilling. God bless the Red Sox.
Well, speaking of Republicans, Tony Fabrizio is a very talented Republican pollster. And his new survey out today shows, like most surveys, that the race is tied 47-47. But Mr. Fabrizio notes something interesting note. That is, if minority voters turn out this year as strongly as they did in 2000, Kerry jumps to a 3.5 percent lead over Mr. Bush.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: And if minorities vote equal to their population in the census, Senator Kerry will win by more than five points. No wonder Democrats are doing all they can to encourage minority participation and no wonder Republicans are a little nervous about a big turnout in a minority community.
In fact, one Bush campaign official committed the sin of candor some months ago, telling "The Detroit Free Press" -- quote -- "If we don't suppress the Detroit vote, we're going to have a tough time in this election" -- unquote. For those of you keeping score at home, the Detroit vote is 83 percent black. So consider that next time the someone tells you there's no desire by Republicans to suppress the black vote.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: I love this. You guys try this every four years. It is disgusting every time.
BEGALA: They do.
CARLSON: But this time, black voters, as you know, not super- enthusiastic for Kerry. They'll probably vote for him I think in pretty high numbers. But they don't love him.
And so, in an effort to get them whipped into a frenzy, Democrats are calling Republicans racists. My new favorite is Ken Blackwell, secretary of state Ohio, he is now a racist, apparently.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Ken Blackwell...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... racist.
BEGALA: What about this Bush official? Suppress. What do you think he meant when he said suppress the Detroit vote?
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: Give me an alternative explanation.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: What else could it mean? What else could it mean, suppress the Detroit vote.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... racist, yes.
BEGALA: What else could it mean? It's their stated policy.
CARLSON: It is such an old attack, I don't think it gets you anywhere.
BEGALA: Because they keep trying to suppress black votes. That's why it's an old attack.
CARLSON: Have fun. Have fun.
Well, for most Democrats, voting for John Kerry is like taking bad-tasting medicine, unpleasant but maybe necessary.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Above all Democrats find it a way to get George W. Bush out of the White House. And yet there are some Democrats out there who actually like John Kerry. A few believe, it or not, may actually worship the man.
You will remember a few weeks ago, John Edwards struck a messianic note by claiming that if Kerry is elected, the lame will rise from their wheelchairs and walk.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Well, now comes singer Bruce Springsteen, who said this vote about Kerry today at rally in Madison, Wisconsin.
Vote for Kerry, claims Springsteen, and you'll get -- quote -- "healing the sick, feeding the hungry, housing the homeless." Springsteen didn't mention making the blind see, the deaf hear, or turning water into wine, but the day is still young.
BEGALA: Now, let me get the consistency here.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Jesus, John Kerry, not the same thing. (APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Let me get the consistency. So Curt Schilling, who is a good pitcher, but doesn't know anything about politics, he is a good guy because he is endorsing Bush.
CARLSON: Well, he didn't claim Bush is Jesus.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: But Bruce Springsteen, Bruce Springsteen...
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: You're missing it, Paul.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: He didn't claim supernatural powers for Bush.
BEGALA: President Kerry -- and get used to it -- President Kerry will have policies that extend health insurance.
CARLSON: But will he have supernatural powers?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: President Bush has taken five million people off the health care rolls, Tucker.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I know. I know. He's evil.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He has cut health care.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I know he's bad. I know.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Let me ask you a question.
BEGALA: He has hurt poor people. It is true.
CARLSON: You're trying to talk over me. Let me ask you a question.
BEGALA: It's true. It's true.
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: Will John Kerry be able to make the lame walk? Will they rise out of their wheelchairs and walk when he's president?
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: That's my question.
BEGALA: I'll tell you what. The one lame person he's going to help is George W. Bush. He's going to help him get a new job.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: He couldn't be more...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Well.
BEGALA: First, they couldn't find the WMD in Iraq, and now the Bush team is trying to explain away missing tons of explosives. We'll debate the president's performance and Senator Kerry's alternatives just ahead.
And just what does Dracula have to do with this campaign? Find out later in the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
The case of the missing munitions in Iraq has lit a fire in these waning days of the presidential campaign. President Bush again today was on the defensive, claiming that John Kerry has jumped to conclusions without all the facts, a serious charge that, almost as serious as jumping into a war without knowing all the facts.
Joining us in the CROSSFIRE to debate all the facts, syndicated radio talk show host G. Gordon Liddy and Bill Press, longtime co-host of this broadcast and the author of the great best-selling book "Bush Must Go: Top Ten Reasons Why George W. Bush Doesn't Deserve a Second Term."
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Welcome back.
BILL PRESS, AUTHOR, "BUSH MUST GO": Thank you.
CARLSON: Bill, it is great to see you. PRESS: From the left.
CARLSON: Bill Press.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: And from the honest left. That is one of the things I love you about, Bill.
PRESS: Thank you, Tucker.
CARLSON: That you're honest and you say...
BEGALA: As opposed to...
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: No, no.
PRESS: Thank you, Tucker.
CARLSON: And you say what you really think, regardless of...
PRESS: And, you know, I'm fond of you, too. So I bought you a present, a bumper sticker of "Bush Must Go."
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Oh, that is fantastic. I just don't know what it means. What does that mean?
PRESS: This is for the -- it is for the Bentley.
BEGALA: The Bentley or the Jaguar.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: The Jag, either one.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Pathetic.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: OK, here is something that you wrote May 21, 2004, in your column. I'm an avid reader of it.
You said -- quote -- "The situation is not going to improve in Iraq no matter how many more Iraqis we kill. The sooner we get out there, the better." Fair point. John Kerry doesn't agree with you at all. He wants to stay the course, possibly add more troops. Here's my question. Why aren't you voting for Ralph Nader, who shares this view?
PRESS: Because Ralph Nader is a loser.
(LAUGHTER)
PRESS: Listen, John Kerry doesn't agree with me on this issue. I don't agree with him on this issue.
But the point is, Tucker, that Iraq is a disaster. We shouldn't have gone there in the first place. The way George Bush has done it is a disaster. The occupation is a disaster. And this 380 tons of missing weapons is emblematic of how he screwed up the entire effort over there. And that's George Bush's responsibility. It's not John Kerry's responsibility.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Well, but, I think even you will concede that George W. Bush didn't do it alone. I want to read you another quote from Ralph Nader. Listen carefully.
PRESS: By whom?
CARLSON: Ralph Nader. Listen carefully. You may be won over.
Quote: "The Democrats were complicit in this war. They could have stopped that war resolution in the Senate, but they did not."
That is absolutely, unarguably true. Ralph Nader points out that the Democrats are behind this, too. Why are you holding them to the same standard you're holding the administration?
PRESS: That's another reason I won't vote for Ralph Nader, because doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
Look, this is George Bush's war. He made the decision to go to war based on no weapons of mass destruction, no nukes, no contact -- or connection with Osama bin Laden, and no threat to the United States. He never had a plan to win the peace. He never sent enough troops over there to protect our own forces. He never told our troops to guard this facility, so that they don't steal these 380 tons of explosives and then use those against the troops. The only thing he told them to protect was the Oil Ministry in Iraq. It is George Bush's war and he's got to take responsibility.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Amen. I couldn't agree more. This won't shock you, Gordon.
But, first, I love this book. I want to ask you, even as quickly as page seven, there's a profound truth in here that I want to read from Bill's book and then show you that it's not just the left that thinks so. It's the whole United States of America. Here is what Bill wrote in his book. "What's the worst thing a president could do? Get drunk on the job? Prance around naked on the Truman Balcony? That's all pretty bad. But there's something a whole lot worse. The worst thing a president could ever do is take this country to war on false pretenses. And that's exactly what George Bush did."
Now, lest you think that's just liberal hyperbole, "The New York Times" surveyed American popular opinion, as newspapers will do. In October, they asked this question: When President Bush talks about how things are going in Iraq, do you think he is telling the entire truth or hiding something or mostly lying? Only a quarter of the country thinks he's telling the truth. Three-quarters of the country thinks he's either hiding something or he's mostly lying.
The president has a major credibility crisis here, doesn't he?
G. GORDON LIDDY, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, you know, I'm glad you asked that, because what I have brought here is form 180, which was signed by President Bush to release all his records, including even his dental records, but has yet to be signed by your candidate, Senator Kerry.
And Senator Kerry's...
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Form 180.
LIDDY: Senator Kerry's discharge was received following the review by a board of officers. When I got my honorable discharge, it wasn't from a board of officers.
Now, the reason you get it from a board of officers is if it's been upgraded.
BEGALA: Because he was drunk in a bar in Alabama, right? Kerry never went to Vietnam. Oh, wait. That was somebody else.
LIDDY: No, because it's been upgraded, upgraded. And upgraded from what? Less than honorable. So we can clear this up if Kerry will just sign. Here. I know you'll see him before I do.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I'll see him at the inaugural ball. I know that. I'll ask him about what 180, stroke, niner-niner.
But let me repeat the question and just ask you to answer it. When three-fourths of the country thinks our president is either hiding or lying something about the war, that's a catastrophe, isn't it?
LIDDY: If "The New York Times" says three-quarters of the people think one thing, probably three-quarters of the people think 180 degrees opposite.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
LIDDY: I mean, "The New York Times..."
CARLSON: Now, but, Bill Press...
PRESS: I just want to point out, Gordon says he has got documents that prove that George Bush completed his service in the National Guard. I have got documents that prove Al Gore won the last election.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
PRESS: You know?
CARLSON: Now, Bill, wait. No, Bill, Bill...
PRESS: I mean, come on.
CARLSON: You -- and in your book, point 10 for why Bush must go is that he's a liar. This is a contention the Democrats have been making for the past two years. Bush is actually very, very dishonest.
And I'm just struck by -- this is not -- I'm not, like Paul, going to put a poll up from August. Here's a poll just from...
BEGALA: This is October.
CARLSON: This is a poll from October 22. A "USA Today"/Gallup poll asked, who is more honest and trustworthy, Bush or Kerry? Forty- seven to forty-two, people think Bush is more honest and more trustworthy. I wonder why people just haven't bought the notion that Bush is a liar?
PRESS: Tucker, George Bush is going to lose this election because the American people have caught on to the fact that they cannot trust George Bush.
The last reason in that book that I have is actually called broken promises, right? One broken promise, he promised that he was a uniter, not a divider.
CARLSON: OK, but wait a second.
PRESS: The only thing he has united is the Democratic Party to take him down.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I think you are absolutely right that the party has gone insane.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: No. No, they're united behind John Kerry. (CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: It is definitely filled with hate and...
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: Insane does not mean united, Tucker.
CARLSON: They hate George W. Bush. There's no question about that.
PRESS: No. No.
CARLSON: But to the question of honesty.
PRESS: No, they love America. They don't hate George W. Bush. They love America.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: But all of the critiques -- of all of the critiques of Bush -- of all of the critiques of Bush that you could come up with, that he's incompetent, that he's wrong on this policy or that policy, Democrats have chosen an attack on his character, that he's a liar. And the polls show people don't buy. And it's an honest question.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Why don't people believe that when you say he's a liar?
PRESS: Well, it depends on what character is, OK? During the Clinton years, Republicans redefined character to mean an act of oral sex, all right?
I think character is a lot bigger than that. I think character is telling truth to the American people.
CARLSON: People say Bush tells the truth.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: George Bush does not tell the truth to the American people. He didn't tell us the truth, Tucker, about -- do I have to repeat? -- weapons of mass destruction, nuclear weapons, connection to Saddam Hussein. He still is not telling the truth. He's going around there saying that John Kerry wants the federal government to take care over health care. That's a lie. That's a lie.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Actually, three-fourths of the country, as I pointed out a moment ago, in a survey, said that they believe the president is hiding or lying something about Iraq.
PRESS: And I think character means admitting you're wrong when you make a mistake. And that's something George Bush will never do. (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Gordon, this controversy about the 380 tons of missing explosives, the Bush campaign has been bollixed up about it, can't quite find a way to blame it on John Kerry or Bill Clinton, but they're working on it.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Until that time, though, they found a scapegoat, not the commander in chief, our troops in the field.
Rudy Giuliani, a good guy and an able politician, said a stunning thing morning on "The Today Show." He said: "The actual responsibility for it really would be for the troops that were there. Did they search carefully enough? Didn't they search carefully enough?"
Now, you yourself are a veteran. Your son is heroically serving our country. Isn't it loathsome for politicians to blame the troops for something that the commander in chief messed up?
LIDDY: No, I don't think commander in chief messed it up.
BEGALA: Well, why are they blaming the terror, though?
LIDDY: It was not the duty of George Bush to stand with an M-16 in front of the door of that place.
The fact is that the Soviets, Spetsnaz people, came in with special forces troops and a transportation company and moved a lot of stuff out of there.
BEGALA: We let the Soviets in there?
(CROSSTALK)
LIDDY: No, this was before.
BEGALA: The Soviets haven't been around since '89, by the way.
(CROSSTALK)
LIDDY: Before the war. That stuff had been missing since before the war. There were no IAEA-tagged stuff there when either the 101st went in there or the 3rd Infantry Division went in there.
PRESS: Gordon, you're hallucinating.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
PRESS: That's absolutely -- no, that's absolutely not true.
A Pentagon official on October 25 told the Associated Press that they checked that bunker after the invasion, March 2003, after the invasion and the seals were still there. These were taken after the war.
(CROSSTALK)
LIDDY: ... who was with the 101st Airborne Division was interviewed yesterday. He was there. He was the troop who was there. He said the doors were open.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: We're going to pick this up. We are going to have to take a quick break.
Gordon Liddy, Bill Press, hang on just a second. We're going to be right back.
And next, in the "Rapid Fire," we all know President Bush doesn't have a health care plan, but, apparently, he is doing some doctoring of photographs in his campaign ads. We'll show you in a minute.
And Yasser Arafat has left his compound for medical treatment. Wolf Blitzer will bring you the latest on where he's headed right after the break.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting from New York.
Coming up at the top of the hour, as Election Day approaches, new legal battles over voting procedures are getting increasingly more intense. Will there be a repeat of the election 2000 fiasco? We'll have the latest from Florida and Ohio. The Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat will fly to Paris for medical tests. A big question in the Middle East right now, what happens after Arafat? And big changes at your bank -- why that old excuse the check is in the mail won't work anymore.
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: Welcome back. It is time now for "Rapid Fire," where we hit our guests with questions faster than John Kerry can make another reference to the Red Sox.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: In the CROSSFIRE today, Bill Press, our old friend, longtime CROSSFIRE co-host and author of the best-selling book "Bush Must Go," also, nationally syndicated radio talk show host G. Gordon Liddy.
BEGALA: Gordon, it turns out, not only is the Bush campaign blaming our heroic troops for their mistakes in not securing the munitions dump. They are now cloning them. Now, I thought they were against human cloning. Take a look at this picture from a Bush advertisement.
First off, pretty low to use active duty soldiers from the 10th Mountain Division as campaign props. They are not fighting for Republican Party. They are fighting for our country. But worse still, they are doctoring their photographs. This is really a problem, isn't it?
LIDDY: Well, I thought you were going to get on the real scandal. You know the wolf ad? It is all the same wolf.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Touche.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... I have to say.
Bill, there's no...
PRESS: This reminds me. This is as phony as George Bush's campaign crowds. They stack them, right, with people who...
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: ... people who take a blood test before they're allowed in.
CARLSON: Back to reality here.
PRESS: Reality? Here?
CARLSON: There is no foreign leader, I think even you will admit -- there is no foreign leader more popular with rank-and-file Democrats than Yasser Arafat. No foreign leader went to the Clinton White House more often. When he dies, will John Kerry call for a nationwide moment of silence?
PRESS: No, that's not true, Tucker.
(LAUGHTER)
PRESS: Really, he's not the most popular among Democrats. Osama bin Laden is the most popular among Democrats.
(LAUGHTER)
PRESS: I mean, if you really want to get low, if you really want to get low, go there.
CARLSON: You said it, not me. It's true. Clinton helped him get him the Peace Prize.
PRESS: No.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: He didn't?
PRESS: Look, I'm no fan of Yasser Arafat. But let me tell you this. If George Bush had met with Yasser Arafat even once, maybe the peace process would still be on track in the Middle East.
(BELL RINGING)
PRESS: He has ignored it completely.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: That will have to be the last word from Bill Press, longtime co-host of this broadcast.
Good to see you again. The book is "Bush Must Go: Top Ten Reasons Why George W. Bush Doesn't Deserve a Second Term."
And G. Gordon Liddy, from the right, nationally syndicated radio talk show host.
Thank you both for a fun debate.
At times, this year's presidential campaign may have seemed just a bit scary to you. Next, we'll share a Halloween twist you can really sink your teeth into.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: In their effort to learn just everything they can about our president and his challenger, John Kerry, the CROSSFIRE staff has left no stone unturned, even, this Halloween week, tombstones.
Well, it turns out that President Bush and Senator Kerry just might be related. Ancestry.com says the '04 opponents are ninth cousins, twice removed. Not only that. Their respective family trees trace both back to the Transylvanian warlord Vlad Dracul, better known as Dracula, whose life inspired, of course, Bram Stoker's dark vampire novel. It could be that's why they call politicians bloodsuckers, Tucker. I don't know.
CARLSON: Honestly, this is not a partisan point, Paul, but answer this question as honestly as you can. Which candidate looks more like Dracula? Be honest.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Come on.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Which candidate looks more like Dracula?
From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again for more CROSSFIRE tomorrow, Friday. The election is almost here. Don't miss it.
Wolf Blitzer follows us.
We'll be right back -- tomorrow. See you.
(LAUGHTER)
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