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Battle for Falluja Underway; Interview With Mario Mancuso; Power Struggle Over Access To Arafat

Aired November 08, 2004 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Unfolding this hour, the battle for Falluja. It is now underway, began within the past hour.

U.S. and Iraqi forces launching what could prove to be a decisive battle for the future Iraq. We've got reporters embedded with the U.S. Marines and with the U.S. Army. We'll get all the latest developments.

Also, is it a conspiracy or homage to an ailing leader? A Palestinian delegation heading to Paris amid recriminations from Yasser Arafat's wife.

One of the first targets in the battle for Falluja is perhaps an unlikely one. Iraqi forces, backed by U.S. Marines and U.S. soldiers, have seized the city's main hospital. But there's more developments unfolding right now.

CNN's Karl Penhaul is embedded with the Marines. Within the past hour, the formal assault has begun, and it's called Operation Phantom Fury.

Karl, update our viewers on what's happening right now.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is certainly fast, it's certainly furious, Wolf. As I look out from a position about two kilometers away, one-and-a-half miles away, I can tell you that parts of Falluja are now on fire. A red glow is lighting up the sky, tracer fire is being traded across parts of the city.

The northeastern part of the city is glowing red. Parts of the city in the northwest are on fire.

Now, before the Marine ground assault began, there was a heavy trade of artillery fire. The U.S. Marines sent in artillery fire, tanks were blasting away at positions, and jets were also bombing targets inside the city. But it seems that the insurgents were holding their guns until the infantrymen, until those men on the ground reached the outer limits of Falluja, and then the firefight began.

There's been a series of explosions, a series -- a continuous series of explosions. It's difficult to see what is causing those, who are causing those. Yes, we can see, we can hear that tanks are firing rounds into the city. Tanks are proceeding the advance by infantrymen. But there seems to be explosions, other explosions which aren't being caused by the artillery or the tanks. An indication possibly that those explosions are being caused by the insurgents.

The tracer fire, we can see tracer fire crisscrossing the sky. Another indication that there is a heavy trade of gunfire, that this fight isn't going all one way. Again, explosions going in and in. And as I say, again, parts of northwest Falluja are on fire at this stage as a result of the fight that is in progress.

For about the last 20, 30 minutes, it has been a constant barrage, explosions, machine gun fire, more explosions. Difficult at this stage, in fact impossible to bring you live pictures of this, Wolf. It seems that the communications, apart from a single local cell phone, have been jammed -- Wolf.

BLITZER: What kind of advantage -- I want to point out also to our viewers, Karl, that the pictures they are seeing are earlier, pictures taken earlier during daylight. Now it's nighttime. It's dark out there. But U.S. forces have a certain advantage using night- vision goggles and other sophisticated equipment that the insurgents clearly don't have.

What do they say to you about the advantage that the U.S. Marines -- and you are embedded with them right now, Karl -- have fighting at night as opposed to day?

PENHAUL: This is one of the reasons obviously why the Marines launched this assault at night. They have night-vision goggles which they believe gives them the upper hand in nighttime conditions.

That said, Marines do admit it is very difficult to make out a lot of contours with those night-vision goggles on. Sometimes it makes their movements a little clumsy. And the type of environment that they are now heading into is totally alien.

This isn't just another city. This is Falluja, a very -- a very Iraqi-type city. It's not the same kind of layout as many of the American cities that these young Marines would be used to. It's a very different kind of a city, a very different kind of a layout.

And we understand that part of the plan is that these Marines won't necessarily follow the main thoroughfares into the city. They will be climbing over walls, breaching walls, climbing across rooftops. And we know from U.S. military intelligence that the whole city may be rigged with bobby-traps.

They believe that car bombs are one threat, suicide bombers are another threat. But U.S. military intelligence analysts also believe that part of the city may have buildings that are packed with explosives and ready to explode.

Interestingly enough as well, as the Marines reach the outer edge of the city, and as the main firefight began, we could hear insurgent fighters chanting in the night, "Allahu Akbar," their Muslim chant of "God is great." Those chants weren't coming from any loudspeaker systems. That was force of numbers. And we could hear that chant more than two kilometers away.

Later on, in the course of the firefight, we heard the chants from some of the mosques, the loudspeakers on the mosques. We again can't make out the Arabic words from this distance, but certainly the chant of "Allahu Akbar" was very clear.

And in fact, as we're now speaking again, we can hear that chant from some of the insurgent fighters. Still heavy trace of gunfire going on, and more fire over the northeastern corner of Falluja now -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And where are you, Karl? Without giving us too many specifics, you're embedded with the Marines. But from your vantage point, what can you see?

PENHAUL: We are two kilometers back, about a mile-and-a-half back from the northern edge of the city. We were embedded with Charlie Company of 13 Marines. We -- or that Charlie Company was one of the first infantry units in on the ground.

The northeastern sector that I'm looking straight ahead at is the area that Charlie Company will now be fighting in. We, for safety reasons, Wolf, opted not to go in on this initial ground assault. We decided to stay back and to see what happens because precisely of the threat of booby-traps and these buildings being rigged at night. Even U.S. commanders were saying that their greatest fear are the booby- traps.

Now we are seeing a whole series of explosions across the city, across the north eastern corner. Those seem as if they may be caused by some form of artillery being sent in. But as I say, the exchange of gunfire is so heavy at this stage that it's very difficult to say.

As I say, we are about a mile-and-a-half back, and have a pretty good vantage point. But still certainly not out of range of harm's way.

We certainly are still within distance of any insurgent rockets or any mortars that may be fired this way. Although I think the thought is now that the fight really is concentrated on Falluja's city limits, very little insurgent fire coming out this way -- Wolf.

BLITZER: So, in other words, it's more of a one-way street. The U.S. Marines, the Army, they are sending in the fire, but they're not really receiving a lot from inside. Is that what you are seeing?

PENHAUL: No. The ground -- the ground assault is underway, so infantrymen, U.S. infantrymen are now inside the city. Tanks, we understand, are inside the city, and possibly two armored assault vehicles are in the city.

The fire is intense. There are exchanges of gunfire, outgoing, obviously from Marines and U.S. Army. But there are trades of gunfire, trades of gunfire trades of (INAUDIBLE).

Another whole series of explosions. Unclear at this stage whether that was artillery fire. But to me, from this vantage point, it looked like one explosion started and then there was a whole daisy chain of other explosions. Difficult to say whether that was U.S. fire. Could have been a daisy chain of explosive devices rigged by the insurgents -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And based on the briefings you have received, Karl -- and I know you are well-briefed by U.S. military intelligence -- they anticipate these insurgents will fight to the death, as opposed to simply trying to run away and meld into a civilian crowd. Is that right?

PENHAUL: It is thought that some of the insurgent fighters may have melted away, may have tried to filter out of the city while they still had the chance. But there was also a thought that the hard-core would remain and fight for the death.

That does seem to be what's happening, because you saw some of those images during the day, jets and artillery had pounded targets in the city. And at that phase the insurgents still didn't show their hands.

They did not come out of the city to fight as U.S. Marine commanders had hoped. They stayed inside the city, hoping to lure the Marines into the city limits. The ground assault got underway, and that is when the massive firefight, this massive battle started.

It's been going underway now for probably more than an hour. And there's not been more than about half a second that's quiet. Every second is punctuated with explosions, tracer fire crisscrossing the sky.

More explosions now, as you see. In fact, a few moments ago that daisy chain of explosions that you saw. And still -- and still, we hear through the sound of explosion, we still hear chants going out from the loudspeaker system, but also from the ground, this chant of "Allahu Akbar," "God is great," by the insurgent fighters or the sympathizers or the religious leaders in the city trying to rouse the troops, rouse the insurgents to keep them going, to raise their morale as the Marines push into the city -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Karl, I'm going to ask you one more question, and then I'm going to let you catch your breath. The fire that is being directed at the insurgent strongholds, coming from the ground artillery tanks, or is air power still being used at this late stage now that the formal assault has actually started?

PENHAUL: I can hear aircraft overhead, but I haven't heard in the last half an hour at least aircraft power being brought to bear. Artillery fire from outside the city, artillery fire that was being used in the course of the day has also stopped.

This is because, I would assume, looking at what I can see before me, that it is very close quarters combat in there. It would be very difficult at this stage for the artillery to target with precision at insurgent positions if the Marines were in the thick of it.

It seems that the fighting there could be street fights, streets block by block. There's no standoff here. Everybody seems to be mixing together, looking at the tracer fire that's crisscrossing. It seems to be those groups really locked in street combat from what we can see -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Karl Penhaul is embedded with the U.S. Marines in Falluja. That assault has actually started, Operation Phantom Fury.

Karl, we're going to get back to you. Stand by, please.

Our Nic Robertson is in Baghdad monitoring all of these developments.

Nic, by all accounts, the interim prime minister, Ayad Allawi, gave the authorization for this offensive. What can you tell us about the decision-making process that led to the start of this military assault within the past hour?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, not only did he give the green light for the coalition and Iraqi forces to go into Falluja, but he actually went down to speak with Iraqi troops right outside of Falluja in the hour or so before the battle -- before the battle began to get underway. He broke the evening iftar meal, broke -- this is the Ramadan period, broke the day's fast with his generals.

That was as -- as the night was falling. That was half an hour before the curfew went into place. About an hour-and-a-half before the assault began.

He was down there right on the front lines with his generals, with the troops, trying to rouse their spirits. But Wolf, not only just trying to rouse their spirits. As well, really putting on the map here for Iraqis and for the international audience that Iraqi troops are very much part of the coalition that is taking on Falluja.

That is a very important message for the prime minister here in Iraq to sell to the Iraqi people. The Iraqi -- a lot of Iraqi people don't want to see U.S. troops going into Falluja. And we saw that early morning assault on the hospital in Falluja, led essentially by Iraqi troops.

They went into the hospital, took control of the hospital. That's where some of the early morning fighting took place.

What the prime minister has said is that he's given the insurgents every opportunity to seek a peaceful solution. He -- on Sunday he enacted emergency measures, emergency laws in the country.

Today, in the afternoon, a couple of hours before the offensive began, he announced a curfew in Falluja at 6:00 p.m. He announced the roads in and out of Falluja would be closed. He announced that the borders between Iraq and Jordan, Iraq and Syria would be closed, apart from food convoys, and that Baghdad International Airport would be closed.

All done, he said, to try and trap foreign fighters, to keep Iraqi civilians safe, and to essentially route the insurgents -- he used to call them terrorists -- route them from Falluja in as short of space of time as possible. But the government here has put in place these emergency laws, immediately stepped in to use them.

The prime minister under these laws has much stronger authority, stronger power than he did before to make decisions by himself, pass off those quick military decisions to his military commanders in the field. And today was right down on the front, very close to the front lines with his generals, right before the battle began -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Beyond Falluja, Nic, there are other insurgent strongholds in the Sunni areas, the so-called Sunni Triangle, and even elsewhere. What happens -- assuming the U.S., the Iraqi forces, they get the job done in Falluja the next few days, what is happening elsewhere in the country, where similar operations may be required?

ROBERTSON: If we look back over the last couple of days, Wolf, we can see some of the areas the government and the coalition will have to look at. There is, of course, Ramadi. That is just about 20 miles from Falluja, another sizable city, another town where the insurgency has had a foothold.

The area between Ramadi and Falluja has typically been a very, very tough area for the coalition to operate in. It is farmers fields, it is rivers, it is drainage ditches, it is high -- high rushes (ph), high marshes. An area, again, that the coalition is going to have to go into and clear the insurgents out of. Farmland area much of it. A tough area to operate in.

Northeast of there, yesterday, 21 people killed in around the town of Haditha, a town where the insurgency has obviously had some capability. Coalition will likely have to clean them up there.

On Saturday, 34 people killed in the town of Samarra. The 1st Infantry Division went into that town with 3,000 U.S. troops, 2,000 Iraqi troops just a month ago and cleaned it of insurgents. Again, attacks have picked up again there.

So, there are -- there are these main towns. South of Baghdad there are a number of towns, 20, 30, 40 miles south of Baghdad, known for the strength of support for the insurgency, known for the banditry, known for their killing, known for their road checkpoints. These are other areas the coalition is going to have to go into.

Iraqi police stormed a checkpoint in one of these towns south of Baghdad yesterday, killed a number of insurgents, captured a number of others. Likely, we're going to see after Falluja the coalition and the Iraqi government begin to spread out and take on these other areas, Wolf. But it is a very big proposition, but the government says they need to do it and do it now because they need to stabilize the country in advance of the elections that are planned for January.

BLITZER: End of January, that would be. Nic Robertson, we'll get back to you. Thank you very much.

Barbara Starr is over at the Pentagon monitoring this developing story. Breaking news, literally. Breaking news within the past hour, the formal start of the assault on Falluja.

What are they saying at the Pentagon, Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as we have been reporting, it is now called Operation Phantom Fury. And in a clear sign that the U.S. presidential election is over, we are now expecting to hear from the top leadership of the Pentagon for the first time in many, many weeks.

General George Casey, the top commander in Baghdad, will hold a telephone press conference with the Pentagon press corps at the top of the hour. And then at 2:00 Eastern Time, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

We are told that they will not answer detailed questions about the battle, that that will be left to commanders in the field. But that they will lay out the big picture about what is unfolding. We have not heard from these men in some time.

Operation Phantom Fury, of course, unfolding in recent hours after the interim prime minister, Ayad Allawi, declared the state of emergency, set a curfew, closed roads, closed the borders. And forces began to move, of course, several hours ago, taking that first key objective, the hospital in Falluja.

Iraqi commandos literally kicking in the door, backed up by U.S. forces. They went after the hospital for a couple of key reasons.

First, they wanted to be able to use it for treatment of civilians who might be injured in the upcoming battle. But they also wanted to get the insurgents out of there, stop having them interfere with the hospital. The feeling by the U.S. is that the insurgents were basically using it to -- as a propaganda tool, if you will, saying that civilians turning up at the hospital for treatment were those wounded by U.S. airstrikes.

Now, this evening in Falluja, as Karl Penhaul has been reporting, of course, lots of fire going on. And expect to see this continue over many hours, Wolf.

The U.S. does have a key advantage in nighttime operations. They will keep this fight going 24/7. Not give the insurgents any let-up. But the insurgents, on the other hand, have had seven months to dig in Falluja, set those booby-traps, wire those explosives throughout the narrow streets of the city. So, it will be very tough going -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And what do we expect? Obviously, they're not going to go into details on the operation itself. But when Secretary Rumsfeld and General Myers meet with the news media, meet with the press over there at the Pentagon 2:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Barbara, what do we expect them -- what -- will they be laying out the broad strategy of what is going on? Is that the anticipation?

STARR: Always not a sensible idea to predict what Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld will say. But indeed, the expectation is he will lay out the broad strategy. He will talk about the fact of how this fits in to coalition policy.

What the goal is in Falluja is to get the city back under local control, Iraqi control. No one here is assuming that the Falluja operation will break the back of the insurgency across Iraq. That is a very different proposition.

Some 12,000 fighters around the country, a number of cells operating around Iraq. Falluja is just one step in the process.

No one is anticipating that this is the so-called tipping point for the insurgency, that this is going to defeat them. But what they hope to do, get local control back in Falluja, get the Sunni civilians back in there, and get them participating in those upcoming January elections.

The Sunnis, of course, are a minority in Iraq. They feel disenfranchised. And the feeling is politically that those January elections will only be seen as legitimate if there is both Sunni and Shia participation, not just participation by the Shia majority. So, that is one of the key political objectives of the Falluja operation -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Thank you, Barbara.

And as Barbara said, we expect to be hearing lots more about the unfolding developments in Falluja. A little bit later today, the defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Richard Myers, briefing reporters about an hour and 40 minutes from now, 2:00 p.m. Eastern.

CNN will have live coverage -- CNN and CNN International.

U.S. and Iraqi forces could face ambushes, snipers, booby-trapped buildings. No one is predicting with any degree of any certainty how long the fighting in Falluja will last.

Joining us now for some insights, though, the former U.S. Army Special Operations Detachment Commander Captain Mario Mancuso, retired U.S. Army. He did a tour of duty in Iraq not that long ago.

What worries me, Mario, as someone who was a former Pentagon reporter, who has covered these kinds of things in the past, what they call -- and I hate this phrase -- friendly fire. You've got U.S. Marines going in, you've got U.S. Army soldiers going in. You've got Iraqi troops, allied with the U.S., going in, all blazing.

You've got air power coming in, artillery shells. And you've got enemy fire coming in. There's a potential there for -- for what we call friendly fire, where U.S. and coalition forces take casualties from their own. MARIO MANCUSO, FMR. SPECIAL OPERATIONS DETACHMENT COMMANDER: Yes, there's a huge potential for that. But that's where good training comes in.

Essentially what we are seeing here, with the combined arms team, we're seeing armor, we're seeing infantry, we're seeing close air support, whether in the form of Specter Gunships or in the form of Harrier Jets dropping -- dropping munitions. Included, there is the Iraqi component.

There is a potential for that, but these are well-motivated, well-led, well-trained troops. The potential is mitigated by that.

But I want to emphasize, this is 360 degrees combat. This is looking up, looking across, looking to your side. The insurgents are well trained well motivated, and this could be a tough battle.

BLITZER: And they are ready to die. These are insurgents that -- that almost look forward, if they believe in some of the propaganda that they have been told over these years, that if they die as martyrs, they will be in heaven.

MANCUSO: Absolutely. At least that is a portion of the insurgents believe that. There's some evidence to indicate that some other insurgents, what I'll call former regime loyalists or die-hard Ba'athists -- don't really buy into that martyrdom piece -- have already left the city. There's some evidence of that.

But there is still a substantial rump of these hard-core insurgents that will want to die for the cause. And the Marines and the Army may give them the opportunity to do that.

This is going to be a tough mission, but this is also a possible mission. And militarily certainly. The difficulty will be translating this military success when it comes, and I believe it will come, into a political success.

BLITZER: Well, the political success is an important thing as well, obviously, very important. I've been briefed by U.S. officials who are very, very worried that there will be large numbers of Iraqi civilian casualties.

A big chunk of that city of Falluja, 250,000, 300,000 normal population, maybe 70 percent of them or so left. But there are still tens of thousands of civilians who are in these blocks, the small confine of this city. And if there are significant numbers of civilian casualties, that political success may disappear.

MANCUSO: Clearly. That is clearly the case. And what you will see is certainly multinational forces -- and I believe there are Iraqi compatriots -- will take every opportunity to try to mitigate that -- that possibility.

That's one of the reasons clearly why the hospital was taken first. So, to the extent that there are civilian casualties, those casualties can be triaged, can be dealt with in the hospital, and prevent insurgents from claiming a propaganda victory.

On the other hand, many folks have left. And in addition, once the military piece of the operation is over, I predict you're probably going to see some -- what I call asymmetric warfare, targeted reconstruction assistance to try to mitigate the follow-on consequences of some damage that obviously might happen.

BLITZER: We are told there are extensive booby-traps all over the city. They have had months and months since last April to prepare for this. They knew it was coming. There is no tactical surprise.

The United States military, the Iraqis basically had been advertising this for days, that it was about to happen. So, there is no -- there is no element of surprise that it has actually started. But how do you deal -- if you are a Special Operations soldier -- and you are one -- you go in and you worry about improvised explosive device, booby-traps, suicide bombers ready to take out a whole building. What do you do in that kind of situation?

MANCUSO: Well, there are tactics and techniques and procedures that you follow. Clearly, you can't eliminate all of the risk. But what you're going to have -- you're going to conduct intelligence to see where they will likely put these things.

You notice Karl Penhaul reported that Marines and soldiers are keeping away from natural avenues of approach or drift. What the enemy will try to do is sort of deploy or array and layer these obstacles, IEDs, et cetera, so to try to channel our forces into natural kill zones.

Our forces knowing that will try to avoid them as much as possible, will try to go over walls, try to breach these obstacles where no other alternatives are available. They are significant risks. And I don't mean to underestimate them.

At the same time, there are tactics that we can use to mitigate those risks. And good training, leadership and, frankly, high motivation is going to be critical to the success of the mission.

BLITZER: Now, the safest way for these troops to go into a city like Falluja is to go in, in armored vehicles, armored personnel and carriers, tanks, along those lines. But at some point the Marines and the soldiers and the Iraqi soldiers, they have to get out and go into buildings and expose themselves.

MANCUSO: It's happening right now. What you will likely see is -- is using these forces in a layered way. Tanks, armor, infantry, air support in a combined fashion. That's happening right now.

You have infantry on the ground right now engaging targets. That's what it appears to be. And that is -- that is the case.

But you know, it is a dangerous environment to operate in. It's difficult, but it's possible. And we'll see.

BLITZER: And fighting at night -- you fought with night vision goggles. You can see things, but you don't see it all that clearly. I've seen what it looks like. Explain to our viewers in the United States and around the world what it is like to go into an urban setting in a battle wearing these night-vision goggles.

MANCUSO: Well, the night-vision goggles are, I think, a tremendous advantage. You an see, but clearly in a fast-paced, fast- moving environment, their advantages is relatively less.

Night-vision devices help, I think, more significantly in other settings. It's an advantage.

I think, you know, you have to weigh that against the insurgents knowing the layout of the city and, frankly, playing defense. You know, they know where their defenses are. And that's a significant advantage as well. So, you have to measure those things against each other.

BLITZER: Mario Mancuso, thanks very much for spending a few moments with us.

So, once again, the operation has started, Operation Phantom Fury, the U.S.-led military assault on insurgent strongholds in Falluja. We are continuing our extensive coverage.

Also, we are watching another important story, Yasser Arafat and his health. His wife now blasting some of her ailing husband's would- be successors. We will have the latest on this developing story as well. Our Christiane Amanpour will join us live.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Let me update our viewers in the United States and around the world what is happening in Falluja right now. The U.S. military, together with Iraqi allied forces are now storming the city looking to root out insurgent strongholds there.

That operation, "Operation Phantom Fury" as it's being called, began within the past hour or so. Troops are moving in, huge explosions being heard throughout Falluja. Artillery fire, ground fire, and we also are led to believe perhaps some continued air power. Air fire as well. We are going to continue to monitor that story for our viewers.

We have two reporters embedded with the U.S. troops, Jane Arraf with the U.S. Army, and Karl Penhaul embedded with the U.S. Marines. We will check back with them shortly on the latest developments. But Operation Phantom Fury now well underway. The long U.S.-led struggle to get inside Falluja, and help the interim Iraqi government take charge there, taking place even as we speak.

There's another important story we are following now involving the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. There are signs of a significant power struggle underway at the bedside of the Palestinian leader. His top lieutenants are on their way to Paris now, to the hospital where he is being treated. The question is this: Will they be allowed to see him?

Christiane Amanpour is joining us live from London and she's got new information on what's going on. Christiane?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Abu Mazen and Abu Ala, the two main leaders now of the Palestinian day-to-day functioning are going to Paris. And a couple of other Palestinian leaders. And they will go to visit the French foreign minister and the French president and demand access to Yasser Arafat, demand to be able to see him, we're told by sources, and also, incredibly importantly, to actually get a proper medical assessment of what's wrong with him.

As we have seen over the past several days that he's been in the intensive care in hospital in Paris, it is only been a hospital spokesperson, not a doctor, per se who has come out and given definitive word on his condition. And this is the latest they had to say in the hospital this evening.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Mr. Yasser Arafat, president of the Palestinian Authority, has been hospitalized. He was hospitalized for blood abnormalities. After five days, marked by improvement, his health situation has become preoccupying serious and has necessitated his moving to the -- he continues to be in emergency care. He is restricted from any visits. I thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Well, yet, again, word from a spokesman, but this Palestinian leadership wants access and wants to be able to see President Arafat, as I said. In short, what they want is to be able to apply their basic constitution.

If President Arafat is incapacitated, as he appears to be now, unable to perform duties the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah wants to be able to take the next steps as according to their basic law -- to do it all smoothly, to do it legally, and they are paying meticulous heed to the legality and to the orderliness of what they're trying to do in Ramallah.

And I am told this is actually paying dividends. That the security services seem to be on board. They have gone to Gaza to calm down any potential situation there. And that the leadership right now enacted on the ground by Abu Mazen and Abu Ala is being watched very closely and with encouragement by the Israeli side, as well.

And of course, there is a power struggle. It appears Suha, Arafat's wife, who today lashed out at Abu Mazen and Abu Ala, is very concerned to be able to control the news about him, to be able to control access to him and continue as if he is functioning. Because she and the other cronies there's, I'm told, have only him and his money as their power base. Where as the leadership in Ramallah is keen to implement an orderly, legal, proper post-Arafat agenda, whether he's alive or not alive. They simply want to be able to get on with the business of Palestinian affairs properly. There's a huge bank account, we're told, to which Suha has had access, at least to part of that bank account.

And I'm being told has been rewarded and paid very handsomely over the last several years, but there are also other bank accounts. And there seems to be a lot of struggle by the people in Paris around the sickbed over who controls that.

So, almost like a medieval situation going on around one of the most important world leaders given that he is head of the Palestinian people, Wolf.

BLITZER: So, is it all about money? Is that what this is about? This dispute between Suha Arafat and the Palestinian establishment, if you will? The current prime minister of the Palestinian authority? The former prime minister? Is it access to money?

AMANPOUR: What I'm told is that is a great part of it. Not on the part of the Palestinian leadership, as you mentioned, but certainly on the part of Arafat's wife and those loyalists who are around him in Paris.

Obviously, there are the natural emotions, there is the business of him being sick, but I have been told that, you know, they want to try and keep him, quote, "functioning as long as possible," so that they are able to, you know, act as if he is still in charge.

He is their only power base, whereas the leadership wants to get on with the business. And very interestingly, in Ramallah this evening, we have just had live pictures of thousands of people gathering in Ramallah wanting proper information about Arafat's health, and also protesting what Suha Arafat said earlier today in an interview with Al-Jazeera, where she accused the leadership in Ramallah of trying to bury Arafat before he was dead.

BLITZER: Christian Amanpour reporting for us from London. We'll be checking back with you, as well. Thank you, Christiane.

And our viewers are seeing those live pictures, those demonstrations in Ramallah right now. People protesting Suha Arafat, and what she said to Al-Jazeera. People protesting. They want more information about what is happening now to Yasser Arafat.

So, that is a question we are asking, how would Yasser Arafat's health right now and his death, if that were to happen, effect the overall Middle East peace process. Chances for reviving peace talks. We will get some analysis, what may be happening now, what's happening next.

We'll be joined by two guests, Hanan Ashrawi, a Palestinian legislator and Akiva Eldar, he's a columnist with an important Tel Aviv newspaper. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Their leader in a coma thousands of miles away, Palestinians are wondering, with considerable understanding, what's next. Who will take over? Will they see more violence or will there be an opportunity for a revival of the peace process should Yasser Arafat not survive this crisis?

Joining us now are two guests: from Ramallah, on the West Bank, the Palestinian legislator, Hanan Ashrawi; and in Jerusalem, Akiva Eldar, he's a senior columnist for "Haaretz," the daily newspaper in Israel. Thanks to both of you for joining us.

And Hanan, let me start with you. What exactly -- if you could explain to us this dispute that is unfolding between Suha Arafat, the wife of Yasser Arafat, and the Palestinian leadership, the prime minister of the Palestinian authority, the former prime minister, both on their way to Paris. Explain what is going on.

HANAN ASHRAWI, PALESTINIAN LEGISLATOR: Well, actually, it took people by surprise. All along Suha Arafat, in accordance with French law, has been in charge of the information and of the reports issued by the hospital itself. So, there was very little information coming out unless it was sifted ahead of time or censored, even. Suha Arafat took charge, so to speak, and that created resentment.

But at the same time the lack of information or conflicting information led to the rumor mill working overtime. And lots of people started speculating, lots of rumors all over the place. And this necessitated that there should be other direct channels.

Though although we understand the French law about next of kin and the responsibility of Suha as wife, that there is also a political structure and system and a nation. Yasser Arafat is head of state. He is not an ordinary private citizen only. He is not only husband to Suha Arafat. He is the head of state and people need to know. And there is a political system in place that also has to function.

So, people put pressure on this leadership, on Abu Ala and Abu Mazen to go to Paris and get firsthand information and address the public and also to continue with legal, national and political system that should function, because we are determined not to fall apart.

Now Suha, in a sense, could be settling old scores. This goes back a long way. It's not new. There could be other issues, personal involved, but suffice it to say that her public statements were certainly divisive, contentious, were received in a very negative way because they were seen as trying to create rifts and trying to create political rivalries where none existed, particularly at this time in which everybody is rallying together, everybody is trying to work together with national unity and with a sense of responsibility and rising to that challenge of this momentous moment.

BLITZER: Hanan, and I want to apologize to viewers. We are getting static interference on that shot from Ramallah. But Suha, based on a lot of conversations that I had with Palestinians, Suha Arafat was never very popular with Palestinians, as you well know. There's now a suggestion being made that behind this dispute that is unfolded over the past 24 hours behind this dispute may be an element of money. She wants to control some of the money and Palestinian leaders, on the other hand, don't want her necessarily to control money.

Unfortunately, we lost Hanan Ashrawi, our satellite communications with Ramallah, temporarily going down. We will try to reconnect with that. But let me bring Akiva Eldar in from the Israeli newspaper "Haaretz."

Akiva, I know you have been reporting on this story a great deal over the years, as well. What can you tell us about the relationship between Suha Arafat, her husband, Yasser Arafat, money, and the Palestinian Authority leadership?

AKIVA ELDAR, "HAARETZ": Well, you asked Christiane Amanpour about what is in it for Suha? Is it just money? I can add in that your mind (ph) of the loyalists. I think that she wants more than that. She wants still to be in charge, she wants to have some control. And she would like to see her loyalist, Farouk Kaddoumi, be in charge. Officially he is, so to speak, the Palestinian -- the PLO foreign minister.

And he is there. He is around her in Paris. And she is showing great interest in seeing Farouk Kaddoumi in charge and not Abu Mazen and Abu Ala who are looking at taking over the whole system and forgetting about Suha and her entourage. And I think that if it was only money, I think that she has enough of this, I'm sure you have read reports about hundreds of millions of dollars in her bank account.

But you know, some people want more than money. They want to still be in business. I'm afraid that this is what Suha Arafat is interested in. And I believe, as Dr. Ahrawi just said, that she has overplayed this, and actually she has played into the hands of Abu Mazen and Abu Ala and people want to see the whole era now of Suha Arafat being in Paris and trying to pull strings. They want to put this behind them.

BLITZER: All right. Akiva Eldar. Stand by. I want to bring back Dr. Ashrawi. She is joining us. Hanan -- Abu Mazen is Mahmoud Abbas, the former prime minister of the Palestinian Authority. Abu Ala is Ahmed Qorei, the current prime minister of the Palestinian Authority, both have their code names -- or noms de guerre, as they are known.

Akiva Eldar is suggesting there may be a split there, that Suha Arafat representing the Farrouk Kaddoumi, known as the PLO foreign minister, who may have political disputes with the current leadership of the Palestinian Authority. Is that your understanding as well?

ASHRAWI: Well, we have heard lots of conjecture. There have been many theories. One of it dealing with money. But as Akiva said, she has money. I don't know whether that is that kind of motive involve, personal motive. In terms of power, no, she does not have power. She has never been a political player and never had a power base herself.

She tried at first, but it never worked. Even with the women's movement or with civil society or charitable organizations, she never managed to established herself as part of a power or national system or civil society even.

As far as taking sides and bringing up Farouk Kaddoumi, only two hours ago Abu Lotf, or Farouk Kaddoumi, issued a statement was issued denouncing Suha Arafat's statements and saying she was probably out of control, she was probably distraught. But this is certainly very worrying and unacceptable for her to make these statements.

So, in a sense, I think even if she had tried to create rifts and to polarize the old guard and the PLO leadership, between Abu Lotf, or Farouk Kaddoumi on the one hand and Abu Mazen and Abu Ala on the other, it certainly backfired it did not work. Farouk Kaddoumi is not playing a part of this game whatsoever. And the leadership here actually has rallied and are working together and are presenting a unified front and actually the system is working, Wolf.

So, people have been extremely encouraged. Out of loyalty for the president even, that things are working smoothly. And they do not want to see Suha play such a destructive role trying to create a rift where none existed.

BLITZER: All right. Akiva Eldar, take us behind the scenes into the Israeli government of Prime Minister Sharon right now. They are watching all of this unfold. They have been very silent. We've repeatedly asked for interviews with government officials. They don't want to talk about any of this now. What is going through the minds of the Israeli governmental leadership?

ELDAR: Well, you know, Arafat was used for many years as the excuse, the reason, if you'd like, for not moving back to the negotiating table. He was the excuse for the disengagement, the unilateralism, the unilateral plan to put aside the road map that was presented by President Bush. And since it seems that this excuse is fading away, I think there is a lot of confusion, and it's a sit and wait.

I think that the Israelis don't want to be blamed for putting more confusion into the situation in the Palestinian camp. They want to make sure that Abu Ala or Abu Mazen will take over, what kind of government, and basically I believe that they will be waiting to hear from Washington what the White House is expecting them to do.

Whether they should pursue this unilateral disengagement or what we have already heard from officials in the Ministry of Defense, and even in the IDF that perhaps we have to reconsider the whole idea of doing this separately without coordination with the Palestinians, and perhaps after Arafat is gone, Abu Mazen and Abu Ala should get a second chance.

As you remember, Wolf, when Abu Mazen was prime minister, Sharon refused to offer him any gestures and the explanation was he that he was afraid President Arafat will take credit for those gestures, and Abu Mazen will not gain anything from this. Now this game is over. And I think we are waiting to see how Washington is going to react.

BLITZER: Well, we'll see what Washington does. We will see what the Israelis do, what the Palestinians do. A very complicated situation but clearly an opportunity across the board - I've heard this from U.S. officials here in Washington, from Israelis as well as from Palestinians, there may be an opportunity right now to try and revive that peace process. Let's hope that opportunity is alive.

Hanan Ashrawi, thanks as usual from joining us from Ramallah. Akiva Edlar joining us from Jerusalem.

We will continue this conversation with both of you.

Up next, the battle for Falluja now well underway. It started about an hour or so ago. We'll update you on the U.S.-led military offensive right after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. We are following an important story, breaking news out of Iraq. The U.S.-led military offensive against Iraqi insurgents in Falluja now well underway. Started within the past hour. And it's now going after the -- the U.S., Iraqi-allied forces going after stronghold positions throughout the city.

Joining us once again, Mario Mancuso, former special operations detachment commander, U.S. Army. As you look at this operation from the political perspective, it looks, based on what we are hearing from embedded reporters, there, they are going after the most intense stronghold positions first as opposed to moving in from the secondary positions. Does that make sense?

MANCUSO: It makes sense tactically. The reason you do that is we -- it was no surprise we would be going into Falluja. But we did seize the initiative by the timing of the operation. You want to go really to the source of the problem. And that's why we are going after those strongholds where we believe the insurgents are holed up.

BLITZER: And -- in other words, if you break the back of the strongest resistance, then the others might crumble. Is that the theory?

MANCUSO: Well, that's the theory. When you blow it out, that's why Falluja as a city itself is important with respect to Iraq. Not only is it a sanctuary for foreign extremists, Iraqi Islamists, and die-hard Ba'athists, it's also a spring board for attacks throughout the Sunni triangle and probably at least as important, it's a metaphor for the interim's inability to thus far claim control over the rest of the country.

BLITZER: It seems one of the most important missions of this operation is to have an Iraqi face on it. To have the Iraqi soldiers who are there working with the U.S. soldiers be out in front and be participating in an active, robust way. How important is that?

MANCUSO: Well, that's incredibly important. And two pieces to that. First is legitimizing the actual offensive. Having Iraqi forces involved legitimizes the offensive in the eyes of the world and also the eyes of Iraqi public opinion. Secondly, we need troops on the ground to stabilize Falluja once the actual military operation is over.

Once the multinational forces and the Iraqi forces complete the short term mission of rooting out of insurgents, will you see multinational forces kind of pull back and Iraqi force will stay in the city center and in the city, generally and maintain stability.

BLITZER: The last time in many of these battles, the Iraqi troops allied with the U.S. troops failed miserably. They didn't really do what everyone wanted them to do. This time we are told they are better trained, they're better motivated and they are going to do the job. Do you believe it?

MANCUSO: I absolutely believe it. I'd like to point to two successes. Iraqi force participation in Najaf, at least the most recent iteration in August, and also Iraqi force participation in Samarra.

Moreover, think about the headlines in the recent few months. You have seen Iraqi fledgling security forces being the target of executions, beheadings, and so that will motivate Iraqi forces. They know they are fighting for their country.

In addition, I'd like to point out Allawi's visit with his generals to Iraqi troops in the front line before the start of the operation, motivating troops, stirring hearts, which is what you need when you are leading folks into battle.

BLITZER: You have to give him credit, Ayad Allawi, the interim prime minister, going out there, giving this pep talk to his forces, his Iraqi troops going into battle. Mario Mancuso, thanks very much.

MANCUSO: Thank you.

BLITZER: We will continue to follow this story here on CNN throughout the day. I'll be back today later today, every weekday at 5:00 p.m. Eastern for WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

We'll have the latest on the battle of Falluja. CNN correspondents embedded with troops are there. We will check in with them. We'll also check in on the health of the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and what role his wife is playing in his treatment and in Palestinian politics. So much more.

Stay with CNN throughout the day. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. LIVE FROM with Kyra Phillips and Miles O'Brien coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired November 8, 2004 - 12:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Unfolding this hour, the battle for Falluja. It is now underway, began within the past hour.

U.S. and Iraqi forces launching what could prove to be a decisive battle for the future Iraq. We've got reporters embedded with the U.S. Marines and with the U.S. Army. We'll get all the latest developments.

Also, is it a conspiracy or homage to an ailing leader? A Palestinian delegation heading to Paris amid recriminations from Yasser Arafat's wife.

One of the first targets in the battle for Falluja is perhaps an unlikely one. Iraqi forces, backed by U.S. Marines and U.S. soldiers, have seized the city's main hospital. But there's more developments unfolding right now.

CNN's Karl Penhaul is embedded with the Marines. Within the past hour, the formal assault has begun, and it's called Operation Phantom Fury.

Karl, update our viewers on what's happening right now.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is certainly fast, it's certainly furious, Wolf. As I look out from a position about two kilometers away, one-and-a-half miles away, I can tell you that parts of Falluja are now on fire. A red glow is lighting up the sky, tracer fire is being traded across parts of the city.

The northeastern part of the city is glowing red. Parts of the city in the northwest are on fire.

Now, before the Marine ground assault began, there was a heavy trade of artillery fire. The U.S. Marines sent in artillery fire, tanks were blasting away at positions, and jets were also bombing targets inside the city. But it seems that the insurgents were holding their guns until the infantrymen, until those men on the ground reached the outer limits of Falluja, and then the firefight began.

There's been a series of explosions, a series -- a continuous series of explosions. It's difficult to see what is causing those, who are causing those. Yes, we can see, we can hear that tanks are firing rounds into the city. Tanks are proceeding the advance by infantrymen. But there seems to be explosions, other explosions which aren't being caused by the artillery or the tanks. An indication possibly that those explosions are being caused by the insurgents.

The tracer fire, we can see tracer fire crisscrossing the sky. Another indication that there is a heavy trade of gunfire, that this fight isn't going all one way. Again, explosions going in and in. And as I say, again, parts of northwest Falluja are on fire at this stage as a result of the fight that is in progress.

For about the last 20, 30 minutes, it has been a constant barrage, explosions, machine gun fire, more explosions. Difficult at this stage, in fact impossible to bring you live pictures of this, Wolf. It seems that the communications, apart from a single local cell phone, have been jammed -- Wolf.

BLITZER: What kind of advantage -- I want to point out also to our viewers, Karl, that the pictures they are seeing are earlier, pictures taken earlier during daylight. Now it's nighttime. It's dark out there. But U.S. forces have a certain advantage using night- vision goggles and other sophisticated equipment that the insurgents clearly don't have.

What do they say to you about the advantage that the U.S. Marines -- and you are embedded with them right now, Karl -- have fighting at night as opposed to day?

PENHAUL: This is one of the reasons obviously why the Marines launched this assault at night. They have night-vision goggles which they believe gives them the upper hand in nighttime conditions.

That said, Marines do admit it is very difficult to make out a lot of contours with those night-vision goggles on. Sometimes it makes their movements a little clumsy. And the type of environment that they are now heading into is totally alien.

This isn't just another city. This is Falluja, a very -- a very Iraqi-type city. It's not the same kind of layout as many of the American cities that these young Marines would be used to. It's a very different kind of a city, a very different kind of a layout.

And we understand that part of the plan is that these Marines won't necessarily follow the main thoroughfares into the city. They will be climbing over walls, breaching walls, climbing across rooftops. And we know from U.S. military intelligence that the whole city may be rigged with bobby-traps.

They believe that car bombs are one threat, suicide bombers are another threat. But U.S. military intelligence analysts also believe that part of the city may have buildings that are packed with explosives and ready to explode.

Interestingly enough as well, as the Marines reach the outer edge of the city, and as the main firefight began, we could hear insurgent fighters chanting in the night, "Allahu Akbar," their Muslim chant of "God is great." Those chants weren't coming from any loudspeaker systems. That was force of numbers. And we could hear that chant more than two kilometers away.

Later on, in the course of the firefight, we heard the chants from some of the mosques, the loudspeakers on the mosques. We again can't make out the Arabic words from this distance, but certainly the chant of "Allahu Akbar" was very clear.

And in fact, as we're now speaking again, we can hear that chant from some of the insurgent fighters. Still heavy trace of gunfire going on, and more fire over the northeastern corner of Falluja now -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And where are you, Karl? Without giving us too many specifics, you're embedded with the Marines. But from your vantage point, what can you see?

PENHAUL: We are two kilometers back, about a mile-and-a-half back from the northern edge of the city. We were embedded with Charlie Company of 13 Marines. We -- or that Charlie Company was one of the first infantry units in on the ground.

The northeastern sector that I'm looking straight ahead at is the area that Charlie Company will now be fighting in. We, for safety reasons, Wolf, opted not to go in on this initial ground assault. We decided to stay back and to see what happens because precisely of the threat of booby-traps and these buildings being rigged at night. Even U.S. commanders were saying that their greatest fear are the booby- traps.

Now we are seeing a whole series of explosions across the city, across the north eastern corner. Those seem as if they may be caused by some form of artillery being sent in. But as I say, the exchange of gunfire is so heavy at this stage that it's very difficult to say.

As I say, we are about a mile-and-a-half back, and have a pretty good vantage point. But still certainly not out of range of harm's way.

We certainly are still within distance of any insurgent rockets or any mortars that may be fired this way. Although I think the thought is now that the fight really is concentrated on Falluja's city limits, very little insurgent fire coming out this way -- Wolf.

BLITZER: So, in other words, it's more of a one-way street. The U.S. Marines, the Army, they are sending in the fire, but they're not really receiving a lot from inside. Is that what you are seeing?

PENHAUL: No. The ground -- the ground assault is underway, so infantrymen, U.S. infantrymen are now inside the city. Tanks, we understand, are inside the city, and possibly two armored assault vehicles are in the city.

The fire is intense. There are exchanges of gunfire, outgoing, obviously from Marines and U.S. Army. But there are trades of gunfire, trades of gunfire trades of (INAUDIBLE).

Another whole series of explosions. Unclear at this stage whether that was artillery fire. But to me, from this vantage point, it looked like one explosion started and then there was a whole daisy chain of other explosions. Difficult to say whether that was U.S. fire. Could have been a daisy chain of explosive devices rigged by the insurgents -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And based on the briefings you have received, Karl -- and I know you are well-briefed by U.S. military intelligence -- they anticipate these insurgents will fight to the death, as opposed to simply trying to run away and meld into a civilian crowd. Is that right?

PENHAUL: It is thought that some of the insurgent fighters may have melted away, may have tried to filter out of the city while they still had the chance. But there was also a thought that the hard-core would remain and fight for the death.

That does seem to be what's happening, because you saw some of those images during the day, jets and artillery had pounded targets in the city. And at that phase the insurgents still didn't show their hands.

They did not come out of the city to fight as U.S. Marine commanders had hoped. They stayed inside the city, hoping to lure the Marines into the city limits. The ground assault got underway, and that is when the massive firefight, this massive battle started.

It's been going underway now for probably more than an hour. And there's not been more than about half a second that's quiet. Every second is punctuated with explosions, tracer fire crisscrossing the sky.

More explosions now, as you see. In fact, a few moments ago that daisy chain of explosions that you saw. And still -- and still, we hear through the sound of explosion, we still hear chants going out from the loudspeaker system, but also from the ground, this chant of "Allahu Akbar," "God is great," by the insurgent fighters or the sympathizers or the religious leaders in the city trying to rouse the troops, rouse the insurgents to keep them going, to raise their morale as the Marines push into the city -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Karl, I'm going to ask you one more question, and then I'm going to let you catch your breath. The fire that is being directed at the insurgent strongholds, coming from the ground artillery tanks, or is air power still being used at this late stage now that the formal assault has actually started?

PENHAUL: I can hear aircraft overhead, but I haven't heard in the last half an hour at least aircraft power being brought to bear. Artillery fire from outside the city, artillery fire that was being used in the course of the day has also stopped.

This is because, I would assume, looking at what I can see before me, that it is very close quarters combat in there. It would be very difficult at this stage for the artillery to target with precision at insurgent positions if the Marines were in the thick of it.

It seems that the fighting there could be street fights, streets block by block. There's no standoff here. Everybody seems to be mixing together, looking at the tracer fire that's crisscrossing. It seems to be those groups really locked in street combat from what we can see -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Karl Penhaul is embedded with the U.S. Marines in Falluja. That assault has actually started, Operation Phantom Fury.

Karl, we're going to get back to you. Stand by, please.

Our Nic Robertson is in Baghdad monitoring all of these developments.

Nic, by all accounts, the interim prime minister, Ayad Allawi, gave the authorization for this offensive. What can you tell us about the decision-making process that led to the start of this military assault within the past hour?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, not only did he give the green light for the coalition and Iraqi forces to go into Falluja, but he actually went down to speak with Iraqi troops right outside of Falluja in the hour or so before the battle -- before the battle began to get underway. He broke the evening iftar meal, broke -- this is the Ramadan period, broke the day's fast with his generals.

That was as -- as the night was falling. That was half an hour before the curfew went into place. About an hour-and-a-half before the assault began.

He was down there right on the front lines with his generals, with the troops, trying to rouse their spirits. But Wolf, not only just trying to rouse their spirits. As well, really putting on the map here for Iraqis and for the international audience that Iraqi troops are very much part of the coalition that is taking on Falluja.

That is a very important message for the prime minister here in Iraq to sell to the Iraqi people. The Iraqi -- a lot of Iraqi people don't want to see U.S. troops going into Falluja. And we saw that early morning assault on the hospital in Falluja, led essentially by Iraqi troops.

They went into the hospital, took control of the hospital. That's where some of the early morning fighting took place.

What the prime minister has said is that he's given the insurgents every opportunity to seek a peaceful solution. He -- on Sunday he enacted emergency measures, emergency laws in the country.

Today, in the afternoon, a couple of hours before the offensive began, he announced a curfew in Falluja at 6:00 p.m. He announced the roads in and out of Falluja would be closed. He announced that the borders between Iraq and Jordan, Iraq and Syria would be closed, apart from food convoys, and that Baghdad International Airport would be closed.

All done, he said, to try and trap foreign fighters, to keep Iraqi civilians safe, and to essentially route the insurgents -- he used to call them terrorists -- route them from Falluja in as short of space of time as possible. But the government here has put in place these emergency laws, immediately stepped in to use them.

The prime minister under these laws has much stronger authority, stronger power than he did before to make decisions by himself, pass off those quick military decisions to his military commanders in the field. And today was right down on the front, very close to the front lines with his generals, right before the battle began -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Beyond Falluja, Nic, there are other insurgent strongholds in the Sunni areas, the so-called Sunni Triangle, and even elsewhere. What happens -- assuming the U.S., the Iraqi forces, they get the job done in Falluja the next few days, what is happening elsewhere in the country, where similar operations may be required?

ROBERTSON: If we look back over the last couple of days, Wolf, we can see some of the areas the government and the coalition will have to look at. There is, of course, Ramadi. That is just about 20 miles from Falluja, another sizable city, another town where the insurgency has had a foothold.

The area between Ramadi and Falluja has typically been a very, very tough area for the coalition to operate in. It is farmers fields, it is rivers, it is drainage ditches, it is high -- high rushes (ph), high marshes. An area, again, that the coalition is going to have to go into and clear the insurgents out of. Farmland area much of it. A tough area to operate in.

Northeast of there, yesterday, 21 people killed in around the town of Haditha, a town where the insurgency has obviously had some capability. Coalition will likely have to clean them up there.

On Saturday, 34 people killed in the town of Samarra. The 1st Infantry Division went into that town with 3,000 U.S. troops, 2,000 Iraqi troops just a month ago and cleaned it of insurgents. Again, attacks have picked up again there.

So, there are -- there are these main towns. South of Baghdad there are a number of towns, 20, 30, 40 miles south of Baghdad, known for the strength of support for the insurgency, known for the banditry, known for their killing, known for their road checkpoints. These are other areas the coalition is going to have to go into.

Iraqi police stormed a checkpoint in one of these towns south of Baghdad yesterday, killed a number of insurgents, captured a number of others. Likely, we're going to see after Falluja the coalition and the Iraqi government begin to spread out and take on these other areas, Wolf. But it is a very big proposition, but the government says they need to do it and do it now because they need to stabilize the country in advance of the elections that are planned for January.

BLITZER: End of January, that would be. Nic Robertson, we'll get back to you. Thank you very much.

Barbara Starr is over at the Pentagon monitoring this developing story. Breaking news, literally. Breaking news within the past hour, the formal start of the assault on Falluja.

What are they saying at the Pentagon, Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as we have been reporting, it is now called Operation Phantom Fury. And in a clear sign that the U.S. presidential election is over, we are now expecting to hear from the top leadership of the Pentagon for the first time in many, many weeks.

General George Casey, the top commander in Baghdad, will hold a telephone press conference with the Pentagon press corps at the top of the hour. And then at 2:00 Eastern Time, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

We are told that they will not answer detailed questions about the battle, that that will be left to commanders in the field. But that they will lay out the big picture about what is unfolding. We have not heard from these men in some time.

Operation Phantom Fury, of course, unfolding in recent hours after the interim prime minister, Ayad Allawi, declared the state of emergency, set a curfew, closed roads, closed the borders. And forces began to move, of course, several hours ago, taking that first key objective, the hospital in Falluja.

Iraqi commandos literally kicking in the door, backed up by U.S. forces. They went after the hospital for a couple of key reasons.

First, they wanted to be able to use it for treatment of civilians who might be injured in the upcoming battle. But they also wanted to get the insurgents out of there, stop having them interfere with the hospital. The feeling by the U.S. is that the insurgents were basically using it to -- as a propaganda tool, if you will, saying that civilians turning up at the hospital for treatment were those wounded by U.S. airstrikes.

Now, this evening in Falluja, as Karl Penhaul has been reporting, of course, lots of fire going on. And expect to see this continue over many hours, Wolf.

The U.S. does have a key advantage in nighttime operations. They will keep this fight going 24/7. Not give the insurgents any let-up. But the insurgents, on the other hand, have had seven months to dig in Falluja, set those booby-traps, wire those explosives throughout the narrow streets of the city. So, it will be very tough going -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And what do we expect? Obviously, they're not going to go into details on the operation itself. But when Secretary Rumsfeld and General Myers meet with the news media, meet with the press over there at the Pentagon 2:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Barbara, what do we expect them -- what -- will they be laying out the broad strategy of what is going on? Is that the anticipation?

STARR: Always not a sensible idea to predict what Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld will say. But indeed, the expectation is he will lay out the broad strategy. He will talk about the fact of how this fits in to coalition policy.

What the goal is in Falluja is to get the city back under local control, Iraqi control. No one here is assuming that the Falluja operation will break the back of the insurgency across Iraq. That is a very different proposition.

Some 12,000 fighters around the country, a number of cells operating around Iraq. Falluja is just one step in the process.

No one is anticipating that this is the so-called tipping point for the insurgency, that this is going to defeat them. But what they hope to do, get local control back in Falluja, get the Sunni civilians back in there, and get them participating in those upcoming January elections.

The Sunnis, of course, are a minority in Iraq. They feel disenfranchised. And the feeling is politically that those January elections will only be seen as legitimate if there is both Sunni and Shia participation, not just participation by the Shia majority. So, that is one of the key political objectives of the Falluja operation -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Thank you, Barbara.

And as Barbara said, we expect to be hearing lots more about the unfolding developments in Falluja. A little bit later today, the defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Richard Myers, briefing reporters about an hour and 40 minutes from now, 2:00 p.m. Eastern.

CNN will have live coverage -- CNN and CNN International.

U.S. and Iraqi forces could face ambushes, snipers, booby-trapped buildings. No one is predicting with any degree of any certainty how long the fighting in Falluja will last.

Joining us now for some insights, though, the former U.S. Army Special Operations Detachment Commander Captain Mario Mancuso, retired U.S. Army. He did a tour of duty in Iraq not that long ago.

What worries me, Mario, as someone who was a former Pentagon reporter, who has covered these kinds of things in the past, what they call -- and I hate this phrase -- friendly fire. You've got U.S. Marines going in, you've got U.S. Army soldiers going in. You've got Iraqi troops, allied with the U.S., going in, all blazing.

You've got air power coming in, artillery shells. And you've got enemy fire coming in. There's a potential there for -- for what we call friendly fire, where U.S. and coalition forces take casualties from their own. MARIO MANCUSO, FMR. SPECIAL OPERATIONS DETACHMENT COMMANDER: Yes, there's a huge potential for that. But that's where good training comes in.

Essentially what we are seeing here, with the combined arms team, we're seeing armor, we're seeing infantry, we're seeing close air support, whether in the form of Specter Gunships or in the form of Harrier Jets dropping -- dropping munitions. Included, there is the Iraqi component.

There is a potential for that, but these are well-motivated, well-led, well-trained troops. The potential is mitigated by that.

But I want to emphasize, this is 360 degrees combat. This is looking up, looking across, looking to your side. The insurgents are well trained well motivated, and this could be a tough battle.

BLITZER: And they are ready to die. These are insurgents that -- that almost look forward, if they believe in some of the propaganda that they have been told over these years, that if they die as martyrs, they will be in heaven.

MANCUSO: Absolutely. At least that is a portion of the insurgents believe that. There's some evidence to indicate that some other insurgents, what I'll call former regime loyalists or die-hard Ba'athists -- don't really buy into that martyrdom piece -- have already left the city. There's some evidence of that.

But there is still a substantial rump of these hard-core insurgents that will want to die for the cause. And the Marines and the Army may give them the opportunity to do that.

This is going to be a tough mission, but this is also a possible mission. And militarily certainly. The difficulty will be translating this military success when it comes, and I believe it will come, into a political success.

BLITZER: Well, the political success is an important thing as well, obviously, very important. I've been briefed by U.S. officials who are very, very worried that there will be large numbers of Iraqi civilian casualties.

A big chunk of that city of Falluja, 250,000, 300,000 normal population, maybe 70 percent of them or so left. But there are still tens of thousands of civilians who are in these blocks, the small confine of this city. And if there are significant numbers of civilian casualties, that political success may disappear.

MANCUSO: Clearly. That is clearly the case. And what you will see is certainly multinational forces -- and I believe there are Iraqi compatriots -- will take every opportunity to try to mitigate that -- that possibility.

That's one of the reasons clearly why the hospital was taken first. So, to the extent that there are civilian casualties, those casualties can be triaged, can be dealt with in the hospital, and prevent insurgents from claiming a propaganda victory.

On the other hand, many folks have left. And in addition, once the military piece of the operation is over, I predict you're probably going to see some -- what I call asymmetric warfare, targeted reconstruction assistance to try to mitigate the follow-on consequences of some damage that obviously might happen.

BLITZER: We are told there are extensive booby-traps all over the city. They have had months and months since last April to prepare for this. They knew it was coming. There is no tactical surprise.

The United States military, the Iraqis basically had been advertising this for days, that it was about to happen. So, there is no -- there is no element of surprise that it has actually started. But how do you deal -- if you are a Special Operations soldier -- and you are one -- you go in and you worry about improvised explosive device, booby-traps, suicide bombers ready to take out a whole building. What do you do in that kind of situation?

MANCUSO: Well, there are tactics and techniques and procedures that you follow. Clearly, you can't eliminate all of the risk. But what you're going to have -- you're going to conduct intelligence to see where they will likely put these things.

You notice Karl Penhaul reported that Marines and soldiers are keeping away from natural avenues of approach or drift. What the enemy will try to do is sort of deploy or array and layer these obstacles, IEDs, et cetera, so to try to channel our forces into natural kill zones.

Our forces knowing that will try to avoid them as much as possible, will try to go over walls, try to breach these obstacles where no other alternatives are available. They are significant risks. And I don't mean to underestimate them.

At the same time, there are tactics that we can use to mitigate those risks. And good training, leadership and, frankly, high motivation is going to be critical to the success of the mission.

BLITZER: Now, the safest way for these troops to go into a city like Falluja is to go in, in armored vehicles, armored personnel and carriers, tanks, along those lines. But at some point the Marines and the soldiers and the Iraqi soldiers, they have to get out and go into buildings and expose themselves.

MANCUSO: It's happening right now. What you will likely see is -- is using these forces in a layered way. Tanks, armor, infantry, air support in a combined fashion. That's happening right now.

You have infantry on the ground right now engaging targets. That's what it appears to be. And that is -- that is the case.

But you know, it is a dangerous environment to operate in. It's difficult, but it's possible. And we'll see.

BLITZER: And fighting at night -- you fought with night vision goggles. You can see things, but you don't see it all that clearly. I've seen what it looks like. Explain to our viewers in the United States and around the world what it is like to go into an urban setting in a battle wearing these night-vision goggles.

MANCUSO: Well, the night-vision goggles are, I think, a tremendous advantage. You an see, but clearly in a fast-paced, fast- moving environment, their advantages is relatively less.

Night-vision devices help, I think, more significantly in other settings. It's an advantage.

I think, you know, you have to weigh that against the insurgents knowing the layout of the city and, frankly, playing defense. You know, they know where their defenses are. And that's a significant advantage as well. So, you have to measure those things against each other.

BLITZER: Mario Mancuso, thanks very much for spending a few moments with us.

So, once again, the operation has started, Operation Phantom Fury, the U.S.-led military assault on insurgent strongholds in Falluja. We are continuing our extensive coverage.

Also, we are watching another important story, Yasser Arafat and his health. His wife now blasting some of her ailing husband's would- be successors. We will have the latest on this developing story as well. Our Christiane Amanpour will join us live.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Let me update our viewers in the United States and around the world what is happening in Falluja right now. The U.S. military, together with Iraqi allied forces are now storming the city looking to root out insurgent strongholds there.

That operation, "Operation Phantom Fury" as it's being called, began within the past hour or so. Troops are moving in, huge explosions being heard throughout Falluja. Artillery fire, ground fire, and we also are led to believe perhaps some continued air power. Air fire as well. We are going to continue to monitor that story for our viewers.

We have two reporters embedded with the U.S. troops, Jane Arraf with the U.S. Army, and Karl Penhaul embedded with the U.S. Marines. We will check back with them shortly on the latest developments. But Operation Phantom Fury now well underway. The long U.S.-led struggle to get inside Falluja, and help the interim Iraqi government take charge there, taking place even as we speak.

There's another important story we are following now involving the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. There are signs of a significant power struggle underway at the bedside of the Palestinian leader. His top lieutenants are on their way to Paris now, to the hospital where he is being treated. The question is this: Will they be allowed to see him?

Christiane Amanpour is joining us live from London and she's got new information on what's going on. Christiane?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Abu Mazen and Abu Ala, the two main leaders now of the Palestinian day-to-day functioning are going to Paris. And a couple of other Palestinian leaders. And they will go to visit the French foreign minister and the French president and demand access to Yasser Arafat, demand to be able to see him, we're told by sources, and also, incredibly importantly, to actually get a proper medical assessment of what's wrong with him.

As we have seen over the past several days that he's been in the intensive care in hospital in Paris, it is only been a hospital spokesperson, not a doctor, per se who has come out and given definitive word on his condition. And this is the latest they had to say in the hospital this evening.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Mr. Yasser Arafat, president of the Palestinian Authority, has been hospitalized. He was hospitalized for blood abnormalities. After five days, marked by improvement, his health situation has become preoccupying serious and has necessitated his moving to the -- he continues to be in emergency care. He is restricted from any visits. I thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Well, yet, again, word from a spokesman, but this Palestinian leadership wants access and wants to be able to see President Arafat, as I said. In short, what they want is to be able to apply their basic constitution.

If President Arafat is incapacitated, as he appears to be now, unable to perform duties the Palestinian leadership in Ramallah wants to be able to take the next steps as according to their basic law -- to do it all smoothly, to do it legally, and they are paying meticulous heed to the legality and to the orderliness of what they're trying to do in Ramallah.

And I am told this is actually paying dividends. That the security services seem to be on board. They have gone to Gaza to calm down any potential situation there. And that the leadership right now enacted on the ground by Abu Mazen and Abu Ala is being watched very closely and with encouragement by the Israeli side, as well.

And of course, there is a power struggle. It appears Suha, Arafat's wife, who today lashed out at Abu Mazen and Abu Ala, is very concerned to be able to control the news about him, to be able to control access to him and continue as if he is functioning. Because she and the other cronies there's, I'm told, have only him and his money as their power base. Where as the leadership in Ramallah is keen to implement an orderly, legal, proper post-Arafat agenda, whether he's alive or not alive. They simply want to be able to get on with the business of Palestinian affairs properly. There's a huge bank account, we're told, to which Suha has had access, at least to part of that bank account.

And I'm being told has been rewarded and paid very handsomely over the last several years, but there are also other bank accounts. And there seems to be a lot of struggle by the people in Paris around the sickbed over who controls that.

So, almost like a medieval situation going on around one of the most important world leaders given that he is head of the Palestinian people, Wolf.

BLITZER: So, is it all about money? Is that what this is about? This dispute between Suha Arafat and the Palestinian establishment, if you will? The current prime minister of the Palestinian authority? The former prime minister? Is it access to money?

AMANPOUR: What I'm told is that is a great part of it. Not on the part of the Palestinian leadership, as you mentioned, but certainly on the part of Arafat's wife and those loyalists who are around him in Paris.

Obviously, there are the natural emotions, there is the business of him being sick, but I have been told that, you know, they want to try and keep him, quote, "functioning as long as possible," so that they are able to, you know, act as if he is still in charge.

He is their only power base, whereas the leadership wants to get on with the business. And very interestingly, in Ramallah this evening, we have just had live pictures of thousands of people gathering in Ramallah wanting proper information about Arafat's health, and also protesting what Suha Arafat said earlier today in an interview with Al-Jazeera, where she accused the leadership in Ramallah of trying to bury Arafat before he was dead.

BLITZER: Christian Amanpour reporting for us from London. We'll be checking back with you, as well. Thank you, Christiane.

And our viewers are seeing those live pictures, those demonstrations in Ramallah right now. People protesting Suha Arafat, and what she said to Al-Jazeera. People protesting. They want more information about what is happening now to Yasser Arafat.

So, that is a question we are asking, how would Yasser Arafat's health right now and his death, if that were to happen, effect the overall Middle East peace process. Chances for reviving peace talks. We will get some analysis, what may be happening now, what's happening next.

We'll be joined by two guests, Hanan Ashrawi, a Palestinian legislator and Akiva Eldar, he's a columnist with an important Tel Aviv newspaper. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Their leader in a coma thousands of miles away, Palestinians are wondering, with considerable understanding, what's next. Who will take over? Will they see more violence or will there be an opportunity for a revival of the peace process should Yasser Arafat not survive this crisis?

Joining us now are two guests: from Ramallah, on the West Bank, the Palestinian legislator, Hanan Ashrawi; and in Jerusalem, Akiva Eldar, he's a senior columnist for "Haaretz," the daily newspaper in Israel. Thanks to both of you for joining us.

And Hanan, let me start with you. What exactly -- if you could explain to us this dispute that is unfolding between Suha Arafat, the wife of Yasser Arafat, and the Palestinian leadership, the prime minister of the Palestinian authority, the former prime minister, both on their way to Paris. Explain what is going on.

HANAN ASHRAWI, PALESTINIAN LEGISLATOR: Well, actually, it took people by surprise. All along Suha Arafat, in accordance with French law, has been in charge of the information and of the reports issued by the hospital itself. So, there was very little information coming out unless it was sifted ahead of time or censored, even. Suha Arafat took charge, so to speak, and that created resentment.

But at the same time the lack of information or conflicting information led to the rumor mill working overtime. And lots of people started speculating, lots of rumors all over the place. And this necessitated that there should be other direct channels.

Though although we understand the French law about next of kin and the responsibility of Suha as wife, that there is also a political structure and system and a nation. Yasser Arafat is head of state. He is not an ordinary private citizen only. He is not only husband to Suha Arafat. He is the head of state and people need to know. And there is a political system in place that also has to function.

So, people put pressure on this leadership, on Abu Ala and Abu Mazen to go to Paris and get firsthand information and address the public and also to continue with legal, national and political system that should function, because we are determined not to fall apart.

Now Suha, in a sense, could be settling old scores. This goes back a long way. It's not new. There could be other issues, personal involved, but suffice it to say that her public statements were certainly divisive, contentious, were received in a very negative way because they were seen as trying to create rifts and trying to create political rivalries where none existed, particularly at this time in which everybody is rallying together, everybody is trying to work together with national unity and with a sense of responsibility and rising to that challenge of this momentous moment.

BLITZER: Hanan, and I want to apologize to viewers. We are getting static interference on that shot from Ramallah. But Suha, based on a lot of conversations that I had with Palestinians, Suha Arafat was never very popular with Palestinians, as you well know. There's now a suggestion being made that behind this dispute that is unfolded over the past 24 hours behind this dispute may be an element of money. She wants to control some of the money and Palestinian leaders, on the other hand, don't want her necessarily to control money.

Unfortunately, we lost Hanan Ashrawi, our satellite communications with Ramallah, temporarily going down. We will try to reconnect with that. But let me bring Akiva Eldar in from the Israeli newspaper "Haaretz."

Akiva, I know you have been reporting on this story a great deal over the years, as well. What can you tell us about the relationship between Suha Arafat, her husband, Yasser Arafat, money, and the Palestinian Authority leadership?

AKIVA ELDAR, "HAARETZ": Well, you asked Christiane Amanpour about what is in it for Suha? Is it just money? I can add in that your mind (ph) of the loyalists. I think that she wants more than that. She wants still to be in charge, she wants to have some control. And she would like to see her loyalist, Farouk Kaddoumi, be in charge. Officially he is, so to speak, the Palestinian -- the PLO foreign minister.

And he is there. He is around her in Paris. And she is showing great interest in seeing Farouk Kaddoumi in charge and not Abu Mazen and Abu Ala who are looking at taking over the whole system and forgetting about Suha and her entourage. And I think that if it was only money, I think that she has enough of this, I'm sure you have read reports about hundreds of millions of dollars in her bank account.

But you know, some people want more than money. They want to still be in business. I'm afraid that this is what Suha Arafat is interested in. And I believe, as Dr. Ahrawi just said, that she has overplayed this, and actually she has played into the hands of Abu Mazen and Abu Ala and people want to see the whole era now of Suha Arafat being in Paris and trying to pull strings. They want to put this behind them.

BLITZER: All right. Akiva Eldar. Stand by. I want to bring back Dr. Ashrawi. She is joining us. Hanan -- Abu Mazen is Mahmoud Abbas, the former prime minister of the Palestinian Authority. Abu Ala is Ahmed Qorei, the current prime minister of the Palestinian Authority, both have their code names -- or noms de guerre, as they are known.

Akiva Eldar is suggesting there may be a split there, that Suha Arafat representing the Farrouk Kaddoumi, known as the PLO foreign minister, who may have political disputes with the current leadership of the Palestinian Authority. Is that your understanding as well?

ASHRAWI: Well, we have heard lots of conjecture. There have been many theories. One of it dealing with money. But as Akiva said, she has money. I don't know whether that is that kind of motive involve, personal motive. In terms of power, no, she does not have power. She has never been a political player and never had a power base herself.

She tried at first, but it never worked. Even with the women's movement or with civil society or charitable organizations, she never managed to established herself as part of a power or national system or civil society even.

As far as taking sides and bringing up Farouk Kaddoumi, only two hours ago Abu Lotf, or Farouk Kaddoumi, issued a statement was issued denouncing Suha Arafat's statements and saying she was probably out of control, she was probably distraught. But this is certainly very worrying and unacceptable for her to make these statements.

So, in a sense, I think even if she had tried to create rifts and to polarize the old guard and the PLO leadership, between Abu Lotf, or Farouk Kaddoumi on the one hand and Abu Mazen and Abu Ala on the other, it certainly backfired it did not work. Farouk Kaddoumi is not playing a part of this game whatsoever. And the leadership here actually has rallied and are working together and are presenting a unified front and actually the system is working, Wolf.

So, people have been extremely encouraged. Out of loyalty for the president even, that things are working smoothly. And they do not want to see Suha play such a destructive role trying to create a rift where none existed.

BLITZER: All right. Akiva Eldar, take us behind the scenes into the Israeli government of Prime Minister Sharon right now. They are watching all of this unfold. They have been very silent. We've repeatedly asked for interviews with government officials. They don't want to talk about any of this now. What is going through the minds of the Israeli governmental leadership?

ELDAR: Well, you know, Arafat was used for many years as the excuse, the reason, if you'd like, for not moving back to the negotiating table. He was the excuse for the disengagement, the unilateralism, the unilateral plan to put aside the road map that was presented by President Bush. And since it seems that this excuse is fading away, I think there is a lot of confusion, and it's a sit and wait.

I think that the Israelis don't want to be blamed for putting more confusion into the situation in the Palestinian camp. They want to make sure that Abu Ala or Abu Mazen will take over, what kind of government, and basically I believe that they will be waiting to hear from Washington what the White House is expecting them to do.

Whether they should pursue this unilateral disengagement or what we have already heard from officials in the Ministry of Defense, and even in the IDF that perhaps we have to reconsider the whole idea of doing this separately without coordination with the Palestinians, and perhaps after Arafat is gone, Abu Mazen and Abu Ala should get a second chance.

As you remember, Wolf, when Abu Mazen was prime minister, Sharon refused to offer him any gestures and the explanation was he that he was afraid President Arafat will take credit for those gestures, and Abu Mazen will not gain anything from this. Now this game is over. And I think we are waiting to see how Washington is going to react.

BLITZER: Well, we'll see what Washington does. We will see what the Israelis do, what the Palestinians do. A very complicated situation but clearly an opportunity across the board - I've heard this from U.S. officials here in Washington, from Israelis as well as from Palestinians, there may be an opportunity right now to try and revive that peace process. Let's hope that opportunity is alive.

Hanan Ashrawi, thanks as usual from joining us from Ramallah. Akiva Edlar joining us from Jerusalem.

We will continue this conversation with both of you.

Up next, the battle for Falluja now well underway. It started about an hour or so ago. We'll update you on the U.S.-led military offensive right after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. We are following an important story, breaking news out of Iraq. The U.S.-led military offensive against Iraqi insurgents in Falluja now well underway. Started within the past hour. And it's now going after the -- the U.S., Iraqi-allied forces going after stronghold positions throughout the city.

Joining us once again, Mario Mancuso, former special operations detachment commander, U.S. Army. As you look at this operation from the political perspective, it looks, based on what we are hearing from embedded reporters, there, they are going after the most intense stronghold positions first as opposed to moving in from the secondary positions. Does that make sense?

MANCUSO: It makes sense tactically. The reason you do that is we -- it was no surprise we would be going into Falluja. But we did seize the initiative by the timing of the operation. You want to go really to the source of the problem. And that's why we are going after those strongholds where we believe the insurgents are holed up.

BLITZER: And -- in other words, if you break the back of the strongest resistance, then the others might crumble. Is that the theory?

MANCUSO: Well, that's the theory. When you blow it out, that's why Falluja as a city itself is important with respect to Iraq. Not only is it a sanctuary for foreign extremists, Iraqi Islamists, and die-hard Ba'athists, it's also a spring board for attacks throughout the Sunni triangle and probably at least as important, it's a metaphor for the interim's inability to thus far claim control over the rest of the country.

BLITZER: It seems one of the most important missions of this operation is to have an Iraqi face on it. To have the Iraqi soldiers who are there working with the U.S. soldiers be out in front and be participating in an active, robust way. How important is that?

MANCUSO: Well, that's incredibly important. And two pieces to that. First is legitimizing the actual offensive. Having Iraqi forces involved legitimizes the offensive in the eyes of the world and also the eyes of Iraqi public opinion. Secondly, we need troops on the ground to stabilize Falluja once the actual military operation is over.

Once the multinational forces and the Iraqi forces complete the short term mission of rooting out of insurgents, will you see multinational forces kind of pull back and Iraqi force will stay in the city center and in the city, generally and maintain stability.

BLITZER: The last time in many of these battles, the Iraqi troops allied with the U.S. troops failed miserably. They didn't really do what everyone wanted them to do. This time we are told they are better trained, they're better motivated and they are going to do the job. Do you believe it?

MANCUSO: I absolutely believe it. I'd like to point to two successes. Iraqi force participation in Najaf, at least the most recent iteration in August, and also Iraqi force participation in Samarra.

Moreover, think about the headlines in the recent few months. You have seen Iraqi fledgling security forces being the target of executions, beheadings, and so that will motivate Iraqi forces. They know they are fighting for their country.

In addition, I'd like to point out Allawi's visit with his generals to Iraqi troops in the front line before the start of the operation, motivating troops, stirring hearts, which is what you need when you are leading folks into battle.

BLITZER: You have to give him credit, Ayad Allawi, the interim prime minister, going out there, giving this pep talk to his forces, his Iraqi troops going into battle. Mario Mancuso, thanks very much.

MANCUSO: Thank you.

BLITZER: We will continue to follow this story here on CNN throughout the day. I'll be back today later today, every weekday at 5:00 p.m. Eastern for WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

We'll have the latest on the battle of Falluja. CNN correspondents embedded with troops are there. We will check in with them. We'll also check in on the health of the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and what role his wife is playing in his treatment and in Palestinian politics. So much more.

Stay with CNN throughout the day. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. LIVE FROM with Kyra Phillips and Miles O'Brien coming up next.

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