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American Morning
Battle of Falluja; Supreme Court Issues; Unhappy Returns for Retailers
Aired November 09, 2004 - 07:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome, everybody. It's just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.
We're keeping a very close eye on the situation in Falluja this morning. Thousands of U.S. and Iraqi troops are now waging an all-out assault on that city. Coalition airstrikes, as you can see there in these pictures, lighting up the sky overnight. In just a moment, we're going to take you live to the Pentagon and Barbara Starr. She's got an update on that for us.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Also this hour, to lighten things up just a bit, you know the saying "the customer is always right." It may not be the rule anymore for a lot of retailers. Some stores are fighting fraud by putting certain customers on a returns blacklist. What does it take to land on that list? We're talk to Vera Gibbons of "Kiplinger's Personal Finance" in a moment about that.
O'BRIEN: All right. First, though, let's check in with Kelly Wallace. She's got the headlines at our news desk this morning.
Hello. Good morning again.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello again, Soledad. Good morning, Bill. Good morning, everyone.
We begin in Iraq. Baghdad will be under a nighttime curfew until further notice. That's according to Iraq's Interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi. Meantime, the violence continues in the country. Iraqi police say there are at least 10 casualties following a suicide car bombing near an Iraqi National Guard base outside of Kirkuk. Closer to Baghdad, insurgents launched attacks on two police stations. Groups also targeted two hospitals and a church. We'll go live to the Pentagon for more on the battle in Falluja with Barbara Starr in just a few minutes.
A team from the United Nations is in Sudan to investigate reports of genocide. It's not clear how much access investigators will get, because of a ban on U.N. travel in southern Darfur. The U.N. team will stay in the region until November 20.
Here in the United States, jurors in the Scott Peterson double- murder trial are showing signs of a potential deadlock. The judge in the case told juror jurors yesterday to set aside personal biases and reach a verdict. He also turned down a defense request for a mistrial. Deliberations in the case resume later this morning. And former NHL player Mike Danton has been ordered to serve seven and a half years in prison. The sentence was handed down yesterday in Illinois. Danton pleaded guilty last July to murder conspiracy charges. Prosecutors say he tried to have his agent killed. The former St. Louis Blues player has apologized to his teammates and fans.
A quick check of the headlines. Back to Bill and Soledad.
O'BRIEN: All right, thanks, Kelly.
Remember that story we were talking about when that came out at first? Shocking then and still shocking now.
Let's go back to Falluja now. More than 12,000 U.S. and Iraqi forces are pounding insurgent targets in Falluja. Overnight, forces bombarded the city with airstrikes, mortars and artillery fire.
Barbara Starr is live for us at the Pentagon with more on this, this morning.
Hey, Barbara, good morning.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Soledad.
Well, in Falluja, the night sky exploding in a barrage of fire overnight, artillery ground fire, airstrikes. The battle does continue.
Now, Marines and soldiers are continuing to move into their positions inside the city. They are encountering sniper fire. They are encountering some booby traps as they move in.
But what is becoming very interesting is the level of resistance. There is some resistance, some isolated pockets of resistance across the city as they move. But no reports yet of a massive organized resistance operation by the insurgents. Either that simply hasn't happened yet, or it's not going to happen. But that may not be really good news at this point. What sources are saying is it may be an indication that many insurgents have already left the city.
Here at the Pentagon, the question for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is: Will this operation now continue to the finish? Will the troops stay for the complete job?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Indeed, I would say there was a good deal of discussion about the fact that this isn't a matter of two decisions here: one, to start and, second, when you stop. The decision to go included the decision to finish and to finish together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: So here at the Pentagon definitive word from the secretary of defense that this time, unlike last April, U.S. and Iraqi troop will stay until they eliminate the opposition forces from Falluja -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Barbara, let me ask a quick question about word we're getting that the prime minister in Iraq has imposed a night curfew on Baghdad. What are the implications for not only the interim government but obviously the people there as well?
STARR: This could be very significant, Soledad. This is the first overnight curfew in Baghdad since last October.
And the question now is: What is the security deterioration in Baghdad that has led the prime minister to do this? Baghdad is the capital. It's supposed to be, you know, relatively secure under the control of both U.S. military and Iraqi security forces.
But of course, we have seen any number of attacks. Day by day over recent weeks, the security situation clearly deteriorating to the point where the prime minister felt he had to do this, the first overnight curfew since October 2003 -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon for us this morning. Barbara, thank you for that update -- Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad, about 25 minutes now before the hour. From Washington, Chief Justice William Rehnquist, while he battles thyroid cancer, the president may have a Supreme Court seat to fill sooner rather than later. And there could be even several more openings during the next four years.
I want to talk about the politics today of such a move. Republican strategist Joe Watkins in New York back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Joe, good morning to you.
JOE WATKINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Good to be here, Bill.
HEMMER: Also, Democratic strategist, Jenny Backus, is down in D.C. Jenny is back with us as well after her appearance last week.
Jenny, good morning to you as well.
JENNY BACKUS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Hi, Bill.
HEMMER: Hey, Joe, what's at stake here?
WATKINS: Well, of course, the president is going to have to think about whether or not -- who he's going to appoint to be the chief justice if Justice Rehnquist does step down. And of course, one of the names that's being bandied about by the president is Clarence Thomas. And clearly if he nominates Clarence Thomas to be the chief justice of the Supreme Court that would be a historic first, an African-American, somebody who was in concert with the president on his thinking politically.
HEMMER: Yes, you bring it up. We'll ask Jenny about that. What could change for a court under Clarence Thomas?
BACKUS: Well, a lot -- not too much, actually, because Clarence Thomas has a lot of views that are very equal to Rehnquist. There's a lot of really important issues that are at stake, and it's not just the Rehnquist nomination, but there's a potential that this president could actually now appoint up to four Supreme Court justices. And there are some really important issues at stake, such as affirmative action, which Clarence Thomas doesn't share the views of a majority of Americans, such as a woman's right to choose, such as privacy rights and civil rights. There are a lot of issues at stake.
And I think this first fight with Rehnquist is going to be a symbol of what you're going to see going forward. Rove definitely has a plan. You saw it this weekend. Bush does too. They have to pay back those Christian conservatives that they're giving all the credit to for the election. And I think that we're going to sort of see the Republicans really trying to bow to the people on the extreme fringes of their party.
HEMMER: Let me stop you there, just because you mention the word "payback." Joe, is there payback involved in the next four years?
WATKINS: Well, it's not about payback. It's about the president having a chance to set his agenda. I mean, after all, he was elected by a majority of the American people. He has a mandate to move forward in this second term. And he's going to fulfill that mandate. And he's being consistent with what he feels the people elected him to do, which is set the agenda for America for the next four years.
BACKUS: But he doesn't have a mandate. He doesn't have a mandate to go to the extreme elements of his party.
WATKINS: He does have a mandate. He won by 3.5 million votes, Jenny.
BACKUS: No he doesn't! No he doesn't.
WATKINS: He won by 3.5 million votes.
HEMMER: Hang on, Joe, one second.
BACKUS: A hundred thousand votes in Ohio.
HEMMER: Jenny, go ahead and finish it up.
BACKUS: I mean, he doesn't have a mandate to take this to people like David Hager, who was appointed to the head of the FDA today, a guy who thinks that women should be subservient. There are some very extreme judges out there, judges who are not in the mainstream of the majority of the American people.
In those same exit polls that Joe is talking about here, you saw that a majority of Americans, 56 percent of Americans, believe that a woman's right to choose is absolutely appropriate. And Roe V. Wade should be protected. But you have Karl Rove this weekend saying... WATKINS: And 22 percent of the people that voted the other day, Jenny, you should remember also said that the most important thing to them were moral values. And that's the key thing.
BACKUS: Well, absolutely. And the right to privacy is a moral value in this country.
HEMMER: Let's get to another issue...
BACKUS: And that...
HEMMER: ... with Arlen Specter. I don't know if this has been cleared up yet or not. But he talked about this recently. Listen to Senator Specter about blocking potentially judicial nominees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R), PENNSYLVANIA: It so happens that I'm pro-choice, the only pro-choice Republican on the committee. But I don't make the decisions. I've supported pro-life nominees because it's the function of the president to put up qualified people and a senator to support people who are qualified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: That was with Judy Woodruff yesterday. Joe, is this issue now laid to rest with Arlen Specter?
WATKINS: I think it's beginning to be laid to rest. I think the senator has really cleared up a lot of the concerns that conservatives have had about him. Again, his track record shows that he has supported consistently conservative judges or justices who have been appointed to the -- nominated for the high bench. And of course, he fought hard for Clarence Thomas back in 1990 when he was nominated for the Supreme Court.
And of course, since the president -- since this president has been president, Senator Specter has supported every one of the nominees that this president has put forward. He has no reason to believe that he'll do anything different as Senate Judiciary chairman.
HEMMER: All right, we have to leave it there. Joe Watkins, thanks. Jenny Backus down in D.C., thank you as well.
WATKINS: Thanks.
BACKUS: Thanks, Bill.
HEMMER: All right -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: A federal judge ruled yesterday that the Bush administration is sidestepping international law by using military tribunals to try suspected terrorists. The ruling by U.S. District Judge James Robertson stopped pretrial proceedings of Salim Ahmed Hamdan, a former driver of Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan. The U.S. government says it will seek an emergency stay and a quick appeal. Hundreds of detainees are being held at the U.S. Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay, in Cuba. Judge Robertson rejects the government's claim that the detainees are not prisoners of war but enemy combatants, a classification that provides fewer legal protections under the Geneva Conventions.
HEMMER: About 20 minutes before the hour, 35 degrees outside the studio here along Sixth Avenue in Manhattan.
O'BRIEN: Burr!
HEMMER: And on that map behind Chad, Soledad, you see a lot of blue.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, it is called the third rail of politics, meaning it's not a good thing to touch. Can President Bush safely change social security? We'll take a look at that.
HEMMER: Also, the stores cracking down on customers who return too many items. Does this mean now that you are stuck with that awful Christmas present? I like that. We'll talk about it in a moment.
O'BRIEN: And this morning, we'll meet Helen Walton. She and her children have twice as much money as Bill Gates. Andy Serwer has the story of the Wal-Mart matriarch just ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Here's a little something just in time for the holiday shopping season: a retail blacklist. A number of major stores are now employing a high-tech system to track the number of returns and exchanges that consumers make, so they can root out serial returners. Vera Gibbons from "Kiplinger's Personal Finance" magazine joins us to tell us why and how the retailers are fighting back.
Good morning.
VERA GIBBONS, "KIPLINGER'S PERSONAL FINANCE": Good morning, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Well, this must be obviously rooted in a big money problem for the retailers. How much damage does this do to business?
GIBBONS: Yes, this is a huge money problem. Shoplifters and serial returners cost the industry, last year anyway, $30 billion, or about 2 percent of sales. And they're sick of it. So they're cracking down. And many of these retailers have invested in this technology that makes it more difficult to make those returns.
O'BRIEN: So how does the technology work?
GIBBONS: Well, you go in to make a return, and then the store will pull up your file, pull up your record. They'll show you how many -- it will come up on the screen, how many returns you've made, the dollar value of those items, all of the transaction dates. And if they don't like what they see, they'll simply say, sorry.
O'BRIEN: OK. Well, walk me through the part where it says they don't like what they see. I mean, what would red-flag it? Because two things could happen. Either you've been buying things, using them, then returning them.
GIBBONS: Right.
O'BRIEN: Or you've been buying them and they don't fit and you return them.
GIBBONS: Right. Well, they're not saying exactly what they're looking for, but, in their eyes, if they see one too many returns. And again, there is a little discrepancy as to how many one too many would be. But they can certainly say that's just one too many in our book, and they're going to hand you a receipt that says that your return has, in fact, been denied. And they'll probably refer to you an 800 number and just leave it at that.
O'BRIEN: OK. So theoretically, you could be blacklisted without having done anything wrong. And I know you say that if you're not a serial returner, but you're being red-flagged as one, you can do a couple of things. You say you can contact this 800 number, which is 800-652-2331. What else can you do?
GIBBONS: Yes. Now, this is the name of the company that has created the database, a company called Return Exchange at that 800 number, 652-2331, if you feel like you should not be on this electronic blacklist. But you don't have too much recourse other than that. And if you call this number, some consumers are complaining that it takes a while to get a callback and...
O'BRIEN: Well, that's a shocker.
GIBBONS: Yes, a shocker.
O'BRIEN: Well, I'm not sure you're at the top of the list to get a callback.
GIBBONS: No, not exactly. And some are saying it's like trying to fix an error on a faulty credit report. So there are some issues dealing with this company, in particular, that has created the database. But consumers, unfortunately, don't have a lot of recourse. They're sort of in the dark as to how stores are working this and what exactly is going on.
O'BRIEN: Listen, you get a copy of the report. You have to provide evidence that it's wrong. But how do you provide evidence that you didn't return something -- I mean, you know...
(CROSSTALK)
GIBBONS: Right. Well, you could technically show receipts that show that, yes, you maybe went in and made a return, but when you went and returned you spent three times as much money kind of thing. So you need to show them that I am not a serial returner. I'm just a shopper, and I shouldn't be treated like a criminal.
O'BRIEN: You know, I'm wondering if this is going to be open ground for lawsuits, because one has to imagine, you know, I buy lots of stuff that I return because I don't like to try anything on in the stores. I just return whatever doesn't fit. And I've got to imagine that I'm going to be on this list in 22 minutes. So do you think that this is...
GIBBONS: It certainly sounds...
O'BRIEN: ... potentially open for lawsuits?
GIBBONS: Yes. It certainly sounds like there is the possibility there for a lawsuit. And right now, only a handful of stores are doing this -- KB Toys, The Limited, Sports Authority. But I spoke to the National Retail Federation yesterday, and they tell me that more stores are, in fact, looking into it, because so many people are, in fact, those serial returners. They go out and borrow a wardrobe, send it back a couple days later or a week later.
O'BRIEN: Yes, that's just nasty. I don't do that.
GIBBONS: I don't do that, either.
O'BRIEN: Vera Gibbons, nice to see you as always.
GIBBONS: Nice to see you.
O'BRIEN: Thanks. Appreciate it.
GIBBONS: All right.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad, on the topic of shopping, how does the world's richest woman spend her money? Andy tells us about Helen Walton, one of the heirs to the Wal-Mart fortune and one of the richest women alive. Back here in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: This morning, part two of our weeklong glimpse into America's richest family, the Waltons. And today, meet the matriarch of the family, Helen Walton. She's Sam Walton's widow, and Andy Serwer is back with us on this story. You saw it in "Fortune" magazine. You see it here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Good morning.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning, Bill.
You know, when Sam Walton passed away in 1992, he left a great family fortune, 39 percent of Wal-Mart stock in his family's hands. It's now worth $90 billion.
Today, we're going to be talking about Helen Walton, who is Sam Walton's widow. Today, she is 84 years old. She hails from Claremore, Oklahoma, married Sam in the 1940s and had four children, who are now grown. She is universally respected and well-liked in Bentonville, Arkansas, which is where the family lives.
One interesting story, Bill, the head of the University of the Ozarks, which is down in that way, was spending the night. He was a house guest at Helen Walton's house several years ago with his wife, and asked, "What time should we get up in the morning, Helen?" And she said you can sleep in, do whatever you want.
And so he said that he heard some pots and pans rattling around at 6:30 in the morning. And it turns out that Helen Walton was down making them breakfast at 6:30 a.m., one of the richest women in the world.
HEMMER: And in your story, you point out that she makes grits and (INAUDIBLE), too, right?
SERWER: She does homemade grits apparently. That's what she was making.
HEMMER: She is also -- she has been the bridge in the family to the word of philanthropy as well. And you mentioned the $90 billion. That's a lot of cash to be able to be doled out.
SERWER: Yes, that's right. It was she who persuaded Sam Walton early on to set up foundations at Wal-Mart and family foundations as well, and persuaded the family to start giving away some of this great fortune, which they are in the process of doing right now. Generally, the family has given money to education and some conservative causes.
But Helen has also given money to the Presbyterian Church, which is their denomination, as well as Planned Parenthood. So she is someone who has more diverse views perhaps than some of her children do.
HEMMER: Got it. Tomorrow? Jim Walton?
SERWER: Tomorrow we're going to be talking about Jim Walton, who is one of her sons obviously, and is a very private individual. He runs a large bank in Arkansas called Arvest, which is actually spreading out all around the country down there and some other very interesting private companies.
HEMMER: Interesting how the children have all left, but somehow they've all been drawn back to Bentonville, too, over the years.
SERWER: They have family meetings at Helen's house several times a year, where they all get together and talk about their great fortune.
O'BRIEN: It's that stock that keeps you coming home.
SERWER: Yes indeed.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How did you manage to get this story? This is a family that's made a career of staying out of the public eye and avoiding the news media, and yet you got access to them.
SERWER: Well, I think, you know, it's just I kept going down to Arkansas, and they realized I wasn't going away. And I just kept talking to friends and acquaintances, and they realized that I wasn't such a bad bear. And that basically they sat down and talked to me.
CAFFERTY: That's quite a scoop, though. I mean, a lot of reporters have tried to get that story, and they haven't done it.
SERWER: Yes. Thank you.
CAFFERTY: I mean, I'm not trying to suck up to you or anything, but...
(CROSSTALK)
SERWER: I was wondering there for a minute.
CAFFERTY: No. It's good stuff.
SERWER: Thanks, Jack.
CAFFERTY: One of the top priorities for President Bush in his second term is to address the issue of social security. In its present form, the system will run out of money as the huge baby boom generation moves into retirement. The president wants to allow people to put part of their money into private accounts. But some of the politicians in Washington don't like that idea, because then they couldn't get their hands on it, which is what they do now. And it would create in the short term about a $3.2 trillion deficit over 10 years.
Any way you slice it, social security is a big problem. It's not going to go away. It's got to be addressed.
So we've left it up to the viewers of this program to solve it this morning. How would you fix social security? Actually some pretty good ideas.
James in Glenview, Illinois, write: "I'd take a significant chunk of cash, divide it among our top investment companies. These companies would then compete on who could earn the highest return with the winner ultimately getting to invest for social security for the next year. I would then repeat this annually."
Pamela in Pinckney, Michigan: "If the Bush administration is going to privatize it, I think they owe all of the baby boomers who will retire in the next 20 years either a huge refund check for their contributions or a guarantee that they'll have benefits equal to their contributions when they retire."
Lynn writes: "Quit giving social security to the rich. They don't need it anyway."
And one more. Reg in Thunder Bay, Ontario: "Stop educating and giving free health care to illegal aliens. There would be lots of money left to pay the legal hardworking taxpaying seniors their due."
Am@cnn.com.
SERWER: Reg in Thunder Bay weighing in.
HEMMER: What are the chances that President Bush gets his way with social security, put a little bit of privatized funds, a little investment in the stock market? It's going to be...
(CROSSTALK)
SERWER: I think it's a real possibility with the second term, as I said before, and particularly with the majority in Congress. So it's very controversial, but it is something he's looking at closely.
CAFFERTY: If it doesn't happen now with the president who wants to do it and a Congress that's controlled by the Republicans, it will never happen.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.
Today's top stories in a moment here. Also back to Falluja, the latest there. U.S. forces fighting insurgents street-to-street ground battles. Some reports say they have reached the center of that city. We'll get to it at the top of the hour as we continue after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired November 9, 2004 - 07:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome, everybody. It's just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.
We're keeping a very close eye on the situation in Falluja this morning. Thousands of U.S. and Iraqi troops are now waging an all-out assault on that city. Coalition airstrikes, as you can see there in these pictures, lighting up the sky overnight. In just a moment, we're going to take you live to the Pentagon and Barbara Starr. She's got an update on that for us.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Also this hour, to lighten things up just a bit, you know the saying "the customer is always right." It may not be the rule anymore for a lot of retailers. Some stores are fighting fraud by putting certain customers on a returns blacklist. What does it take to land on that list? We're talk to Vera Gibbons of "Kiplinger's Personal Finance" in a moment about that.
O'BRIEN: All right. First, though, let's check in with Kelly Wallace. She's got the headlines at our news desk this morning.
Hello. Good morning again.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello again, Soledad. Good morning, Bill. Good morning, everyone.
We begin in Iraq. Baghdad will be under a nighttime curfew until further notice. That's according to Iraq's Interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi. Meantime, the violence continues in the country. Iraqi police say there are at least 10 casualties following a suicide car bombing near an Iraqi National Guard base outside of Kirkuk. Closer to Baghdad, insurgents launched attacks on two police stations. Groups also targeted two hospitals and a church. We'll go live to the Pentagon for more on the battle in Falluja with Barbara Starr in just a few minutes.
A team from the United Nations is in Sudan to investigate reports of genocide. It's not clear how much access investigators will get, because of a ban on U.N. travel in southern Darfur. The U.N. team will stay in the region until November 20.
Here in the United States, jurors in the Scott Peterson double- murder trial are showing signs of a potential deadlock. The judge in the case told juror jurors yesterday to set aside personal biases and reach a verdict. He also turned down a defense request for a mistrial. Deliberations in the case resume later this morning. And former NHL player Mike Danton has been ordered to serve seven and a half years in prison. The sentence was handed down yesterday in Illinois. Danton pleaded guilty last July to murder conspiracy charges. Prosecutors say he tried to have his agent killed. The former St. Louis Blues player has apologized to his teammates and fans.
A quick check of the headlines. Back to Bill and Soledad.
O'BRIEN: All right, thanks, Kelly.
Remember that story we were talking about when that came out at first? Shocking then and still shocking now.
Let's go back to Falluja now. More than 12,000 U.S. and Iraqi forces are pounding insurgent targets in Falluja. Overnight, forces bombarded the city with airstrikes, mortars and artillery fire.
Barbara Starr is live for us at the Pentagon with more on this, this morning.
Hey, Barbara, good morning.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Soledad.
Well, in Falluja, the night sky exploding in a barrage of fire overnight, artillery ground fire, airstrikes. The battle does continue.
Now, Marines and soldiers are continuing to move into their positions inside the city. They are encountering sniper fire. They are encountering some booby traps as they move in.
But what is becoming very interesting is the level of resistance. There is some resistance, some isolated pockets of resistance across the city as they move. But no reports yet of a massive organized resistance operation by the insurgents. Either that simply hasn't happened yet, or it's not going to happen. But that may not be really good news at this point. What sources are saying is it may be an indication that many insurgents have already left the city.
Here at the Pentagon, the question for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is: Will this operation now continue to the finish? Will the troops stay for the complete job?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Indeed, I would say there was a good deal of discussion about the fact that this isn't a matter of two decisions here: one, to start and, second, when you stop. The decision to go included the decision to finish and to finish together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: So here at the Pentagon definitive word from the secretary of defense that this time, unlike last April, U.S. and Iraqi troop will stay until they eliminate the opposition forces from Falluja -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Barbara, let me ask a quick question about word we're getting that the prime minister in Iraq has imposed a night curfew on Baghdad. What are the implications for not only the interim government but obviously the people there as well?
STARR: This could be very significant, Soledad. This is the first overnight curfew in Baghdad since last October.
And the question now is: What is the security deterioration in Baghdad that has led the prime minister to do this? Baghdad is the capital. It's supposed to be, you know, relatively secure under the control of both U.S. military and Iraqi security forces.
But of course, we have seen any number of attacks. Day by day over recent weeks, the security situation clearly deteriorating to the point where the prime minister felt he had to do this, the first overnight curfew since October 2003 -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon for us this morning. Barbara, thank you for that update -- Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad, about 25 minutes now before the hour. From Washington, Chief Justice William Rehnquist, while he battles thyroid cancer, the president may have a Supreme Court seat to fill sooner rather than later. And there could be even several more openings during the next four years.
I want to talk about the politics today of such a move. Republican strategist Joe Watkins in New York back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Joe, good morning to you.
JOE WATKINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Good to be here, Bill.
HEMMER: Also, Democratic strategist, Jenny Backus, is down in D.C. Jenny is back with us as well after her appearance last week.
Jenny, good morning to you as well.
JENNY BACKUS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Hi, Bill.
HEMMER: Hey, Joe, what's at stake here?
WATKINS: Well, of course, the president is going to have to think about whether or not -- who he's going to appoint to be the chief justice if Justice Rehnquist does step down. And of course, one of the names that's being bandied about by the president is Clarence Thomas. And clearly if he nominates Clarence Thomas to be the chief justice of the Supreme Court that would be a historic first, an African-American, somebody who was in concert with the president on his thinking politically.
HEMMER: Yes, you bring it up. We'll ask Jenny about that. What could change for a court under Clarence Thomas?
BACKUS: Well, a lot -- not too much, actually, because Clarence Thomas has a lot of views that are very equal to Rehnquist. There's a lot of really important issues that are at stake, and it's not just the Rehnquist nomination, but there's a potential that this president could actually now appoint up to four Supreme Court justices. And there are some really important issues at stake, such as affirmative action, which Clarence Thomas doesn't share the views of a majority of Americans, such as a woman's right to choose, such as privacy rights and civil rights. There are a lot of issues at stake.
And I think this first fight with Rehnquist is going to be a symbol of what you're going to see going forward. Rove definitely has a plan. You saw it this weekend. Bush does too. They have to pay back those Christian conservatives that they're giving all the credit to for the election. And I think that we're going to sort of see the Republicans really trying to bow to the people on the extreme fringes of their party.
HEMMER: Let me stop you there, just because you mention the word "payback." Joe, is there payback involved in the next four years?
WATKINS: Well, it's not about payback. It's about the president having a chance to set his agenda. I mean, after all, he was elected by a majority of the American people. He has a mandate to move forward in this second term. And he's going to fulfill that mandate. And he's being consistent with what he feels the people elected him to do, which is set the agenda for America for the next four years.
BACKUS: But he doesn't have a mandate. He doesn't have a mandate to go to the extreme elements of his party.
WATKINS: He does have a mandate. He won by 3.5 million votes, Jenny.
BACKUS: No he doesn't! No he doesn't.
WATKINS: He won by 3.5 million votes.
HEMMER: Hang on, Joe, one second.
BACKUS: A hundred thousand votes in Ohio.
HEMMER: Jenny, go ahead and finish it up.
BACKUS: I mean, he doesn't have a mandate to take this to people like David Hager, who was appointed to the head of the FDA today, a guy who thinks that women should be subservient. There are some very extreme judges out there, judges who are not in the mainstream of the majority of the American people.
In those same exit polls that Joe is talking about here, you saw that a majority of Americans, 56 percent of Americans, believe that a woman's right to choose is absolutely appropriate. And Roe V. Wade should be protected. But you have Karl Rove this weekend saying... WATKINS: And 22 percent of the people that voted the other day, Jenny, you should remember also said that the most important thing to them were moral values. And that's the key thing.
BACKUS: Well, absolutely. And the right to privacy is a moral value in this country.
HEMMER: Let's get to another issue...
BACKUS: And that...
HEMMER: ... with Arlen Specter. I don't know if this has been cleared up yet or not. But he talked about this recently. Listen to Senator Specter about blocking potentially judicial nominees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R), PENNSYLVANIA: It so happens that I'm pro-choice, the only pro-choice Republican on the committee. But I don't make the decisions. I've supported pro-life nominees because it's the function of the president to put up qualified people and a senator to support people who are qualified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: That was with Judy Woodruff yesterday. Joe, is this issue now laid to rest with Arlen Specter?
WATKINS: I think it's beginning to be laid to rest. I think the senator has really cleared up a lot of the concerns that conservatives have had about him. Again, his track record shows that he has supported consistently conservative judges or justices who have been appointed to the -- nominated for the high bench. And of course, he fought hard for Clarence Thomas back in 1990 when he was nominated for the Supreme Court.
And of course, since the president -- since this president has been president, Senator Specter has supported every one of the nominees that this president has put forward. He has no reason to believe that he'll do anything different as Senate Judiciary chairman.
HEMMER: All right, we have to leave it there. Joe Watkins, thanks. Jenny Backus down in D.C., thank you as well.
WATKINS: Thanks.
BACKUS: Thanks, Bill.
HEMMER: All right -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: A federal judge ruled yesterday that the Bush administration is sidestepping international law by using military tribunals to try suspected terrorists. The ruling by U.S. District Judge James Robertson stopped pretrial proceedings of Salim Ahmed Hamdan, a former driver of Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan. The U.S. government says it will seek an emergency stay and a quick appeal. Hundreds of detainees are being held at the U.S. Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay, in Cuba. Judge Robertson rejects the government's claim that the detainees are not prisoners of war but enemy combatants, a classification that provides fewer legal protections under the Geneva Conventions.
HEMMER: About 20 minutes before the hour, 35 degrees outside the studio here along Sixth Avenue in Manhattan.
O'BRIEN: Burr!
HEMMER: And on that map behind Chad, Soledad, you see a lot of blue.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, it is called the third rail of politics, meaning it's not a good thing to touch. Can President Bush safely change social security? We'll take a look at that.
HEMMER: Also, the stores cracking down on customers who return too many items. Does this mean now that you are stuck with that awful Christmas present? I like that. We'll talk about it in a moment.
O'BRIEN: And this morning, we'll meet Helen Walton. She and her children have twice as much money as Bill Gates. Andy Serwer has the story of the Wal-Mart matriarch just ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Here's a little something just in time for the holiday shopping season: a retail blacklist. A number of major stores are now employing a high-tech system to track the number of returns and exchanges that consumers make, so they can root out serial returners. Vera Gibbons from "Kiplinger's Personal Finance" magazine joins us to tell us why and how the retailers are fighting back.
Good morning.
VERA GIBBONS, "KIPLINGER'S PERSONAL FINANCE": Good morning, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Well, this must be obviously rooted in a big money problem for the retailers. How much damage does this do to business?
GIBBONS: Yes, this is a huge money problem. Shoplifters and serial returners cost the industry, last year anyway, $30 billion, or about 2 percent of sales. And they're sick of it. So they're cracking down. And many of these retailers have invested in this technology that makes it more difficult to make those returns.
O'BRIEN: So how does the technology work?
GIBBONS: Well, you go in to make a return, and then the store will pull up your file, pull up your record. They'll show you how many -- it will come up on the screen, how many returns you've made, the dollar value of those items, all of the transaction dates. And if they don't like what they see, they'll simply say, sorry.
O'BRIEN: OK. Well, walk me through the part where it says they don't like what they see. I mean, what would red-flag it? Because two things could happen. Either you've been buying things, using them, then returning them.
GIBBONS: Right.
O'BRIEN: Or you've been buying them and they don't fit and you return them.
GIBBONS: Right. Well, they're not saying exactly what they're looking for, but, in their eyes, if they see one too many returns. And again, there is a little discrepancy as to how many one too many would be. But they can certainly say that's just one too many in our book, and they're going to hand you a receipt that says that your return has, in fact, been denied. And they'll probably refer to you an 800 number and just leave it at that.
O'BRIEN: OK. So theoretically, you could be blacklisted without having done anything wrong. And I know you say that if you're not a serial returner, but you're being red-flagged as one, you can do a couple of things. You say you can contact this 800 number, which is 800-652-2331. What else can you do?
GIBBONS: Yes. Now, this is the name of the company that has created the database, a company called Return Exchange at that 800 number, 652-2331, if you feel like you should not be on this electronic blacklist. But you don't have too much recourse other than that. And if you call this number, some consumers are complaining that it takes a while to get a callback and...
O'BRIEN: Well, that's a shocker.
GIBBONS: Yes, a shocker.
O'BRIEN: Well, I'm not sure you're at the top of the list to get a callback.
GIBBONS: No, not exactly. And some are saying it's like trying to fix an error on a faulty credit report. So there are some issues dealing with this company, in particular, that has created the database. But consumers, unfortunately, don't have a lot of recourse. They're sort of in the dark as to how stores are working this and what exactly is going on.
O'BRIEN: Listen, you get a copy of the report. You have to provide evidence that it's wrong. But how do you provide evidence that you didn't return something -- I mean, you know...
(CROSSTALK)
GIBBONS: Right. Well, you could technically show receipts that show that, yes, you maybe went in and made a return, but when you went and returned you spent three times as much money kind of thing. So you need to show them that I am not a serial returner. I'm just a shopper, and I shouldn't be treated like a criminal.
O'BRIEN: You know, I'm wondering if this is going to be open ground for lawsuits, because one has to imagine, you know, I buy lots of stuff that I return because I don't like to try anything on in the stores. I just return whatever doesn't fit. And I've got to imagine that I'm going to be on this list in 22 minutes. So do you think that this is...
GIBBONS: It certainly sounds...
O'BRIEN: ... potentially open for lawsuits?
GIBBONS: Yes. It certainly sounds like there is the possibility there for a lawsuit. And right now, only a handful of stores are doing this -- KB Toys, The Limited, Sports Authority. But I spoke to the National Retail Federation yesterday, and they tell me that more stores are, in fact, looking into it, because so many people are, in fact, those serial returners. They go out and borrow a wardrobe, send it back a couple days later or a week later.
O'BRIEN: Yes, that's just nasty. I don't do that.
GIBBONS: I don't do that, either.
O'BRIEN: Vera Gibbons, nice to see you as always.
GIBBONS: Nice to see you.
O'BRIEN: Thanks. Appreciate it.
GIBBONS: All right.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad, on the topic of shopping, how does the world's richest woman spend her money? Andy tells us about Helen Walton, one of the heirs to the Wal-Mart fortune and one of the richest women alive. Back here in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: This morning, part two of our weeklong glimpse into America's richest family, the Waltons. And today, meet the matriarch of the family, Helen Walton. She's Sam Walton's widow, and Andy Serwer is back with us on this story. You saw it in "Fortune" magazine. You see it here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Good morning.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning, Bill.
You know, when Sam Walton passed away in 1992, he left a great family fortune, 39 percent of Wal-Mart stock in his family's hands. It's now worth $90 billion.
Today, we're going to be talking about Helen Walton, who is Sam Walton's widow. Today, she is 84 years old. She hails from Claremore, Oklahoma, married Sam in the 1940s and had four children, who are now grown. She is universally respected and well-liked in Bentonville, Arkansas, which is where the family lives.
One interesting story, Bill, the head of the University of the Ozarks, which is down in that way, was spending the night. He was a house guest at Helen Walton's house several years ago with his wife, and asked, "What time should we get up in the morning, Helen?" And she said you can sleep in, do whatever you want.
And so he said that he heard some pots and pans rattling around at 6:30 in the morning. And it turns out that Helen Walton was down making them breakfast at 6:30 a.m., one of the richest women in the world.
HEMMER: And in your story, you point out that she makes grits and (INAUDIBLE), too, right?
SERWER: She does homemade grits apparently. That's what she was making.
HEMMER: She is also -- she has been the bridge in the family to the word of philanthropy as well. And you mentioned the $90 billion. That's a lot of cash to be able to be doled out.
SERWER: Yes, that's right. It was she who persuaded Sam Walton early on to set up foundations at Wal-Mart and family foundations as well, and persuaded the family to start giving away some of this great fortune, which they are in the process of doing right now. Generally, the family has given money to education and some conservative causes.
But Helen has also given money to the Presbyterian Church, which is their denomination, as well as Planned Parenthood. So she is someone who has more diverse views perhaps than some of her children do.
HEMMER: Got it. Tomorrow? Jim Walton?
SERWER: Tomorrow we're going to be talking about Jim Walton, who is one of her sons obviously, and is a very private individual. He runs a large bank in Arkansas called Arvest, which is actually spreading out all around the country down there and some other very interesting private companies.
HEMMER: Interesting how the children have all left, but somehow they've all been drawn back to Bentonville, too, over the years.
SERWER: They have family meetings at Helen's house several times a year, where they all get together and talk about their great fortune.
O'BRIEN: It's that stock that keeps you coming home.
SERWER: Yes indeed.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How did you manage to get this story? This is a family that's made a career of staying out of the public eye and avoiding the news media, and yet you got access to them.
SERWER: Well, I think, you know, it's just I kept going down to Arkansas, and they realized I wasn't going away. And I just kept talking to friends and acquaintances, and they realized that I wasn't such a bad bear. And that basically they sat down and talked to me.
CAFFERTY: That's quite a scoop, though. I mean, a lot of reporters have tried to get that story, and they haven't done it.
SERWER: Yes. Thank you.
CAFFERTY: I mean, I'm not trying to suck up to you or anything, but...
(CROSSTALK)
SERWER: I was wondering there for a minute.
CAFFERTY: No. It's good stuff.
SERWER: Thanks, Jack.
CAFFERTY: One of the top priorities for President Bush in his second term is to address the issue of social security. In its present form, the system will run out of money as the huge baby boom generation moves into retirement. The president wants to allow people to put part of their money into private accounts. But some of the politicians in Washington don't like that idea, because then they couldn't get their hands on it, which is what they do now. And it would create in the short term about a $3.2 trillion deficit over 10 years.
Any way you slice it, social security is a big problem. It's not going to go away. It's got to be addressed.
So we've left it up to the viewers of this program to solve it this morning. How would you fix social security? Actually some pretty good ideas.
James in Glenview, Illinois, write: "I'd take a significant chunk of cash, divide it among our top investment companies. These companies would then compete on who could earn the highest return with the winner ultimately getting to invest for social security for the next year. I would then repeat this annually."
Pamela in Pinckney, Michigan: "If the Bush administration is going to privatize it, I think they owe all of the baby boomers who will retire in the next 20 years either a huge refund check for their contributions or a guarantee that they'll have benefits equal to their contributions when they retire."
Lynn writes: "Quit giving social security to the rich. They don't need it anyway."
And one more. Reg in Thunder Bay, Ontario: "Stop educating and giving free health care to illegal aliens. There would be lots of money left to pay the legal hardworking taxpaying seniors their due."
Am@cnn.com.
SERWER: Reg in Thunder Bay weighing in.
HEMMER: What are the chances that President Bush gets his way with social security, put a little bit of privatized funds, a little investment in the stock market? It's going to be...
(CROSSTALK)
SERWER: I think it's a real possibility with the second term, as I said before, and particularly with the majority in Congress. So it's very controversial, but it is something he's looking at closely.
CAFFERTY: If it doesn't happen now with the president who wants to do it and a Congress that's controlled by the Republicans, it will never happen.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.
Today's top stories in a moment here. Also back to Falluja, the latest there. U.S. forces fighting insurgents street-to-street ground battles. Some reports say they have reached the center of that city. We'll get to it at the top of the hour as we continue after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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