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American Morning
Battle of Falluja; Peterson Deliberations; Interview With Lynne Cheney
Aired November 09, 2004 - 9:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The battle of Falluja is under way. Thousands of coalition troops push into the heart of the city.
A potential deadlock in the Scott Peterson trial. Jurors get a stern warning from the judge.
And a high-speed chase turns into a shootout. Bandits try a getaway in the Lone Star State.
All ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back. A bit past 9:00 here in New York City. Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING.
Keeping a very close eye on what's happening in Falluja at this hour. U.S. and Iraqi troops making their move to take out insurgents in the town. You heard from Jane Arraf a few moments ago the fighting is fierce in places.
Back in April, U.S. troops launched a similar offensive. Eventually they backed out. We'll talk to David Grange, our military analyst, this morning about why this is different, and also based on what we're hearing today from Falluja. We'll get his reaction.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, we'll talk with the wife of the vice president, Lynne Cheney, this morning. Her husband was more visible than usual during the campaign. We're going to ask her if whether that's a trend that's going to continue. And also, what the key points for the second Bush team are going to be.
HEMMER: Also, Jack Cafferty back with us.
Good morning.
O'BRIEN: Hey there.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Question of the Day: How would you fix Social Security? The e- mail address: am@cnn.com. We'll read some letters a bit later.
HEMMER: Good deal. A lot of headlines to talk about this morning. Let's start with Kelly Wallace, back with us here.
Good morning, Kelly.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you all again. Good morning, everyone.
Now in the news -- Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qorei has just paid a visit to the bedside of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. Qorei, along with three other top officials, have now left the French hospital where Arafat is being treated. The Palestinian delegation arrived in Paris last night. A spokesman for the military hospital said Arafat's condition has worsened.
Afghan officials say they're not going to give into kidnappers' demands despite a threat from a Taliban splinter group to kill one of three U.N. hostages. The U.N. workers were abducted in Kabul last month. Kidnappers say they will kill one of them unless dozens of Taliban prisoners are freed from Afghan and U.S. military custody.
And here in the United States, a brazen shootout in broad daylight. Bullets flying from a suspect's vehicle during a car chase in northern Texas.
This amazing video captured by cameras on police dashboards. One officer suffered minor injuries from the broken glass, but no one was shot. One of the suspects is now in police custody. Some unbelievable pictures there.
Bill, Soledad, get you caught up.
HEMMER: Brazen indeed.
WALLACE: Exactly.
HEMMER: Thank you, Kelly.
Let's get to Iraq, where American military officials say U.S. forces are now in the heart of Falluja with control of a third of that city. Fierce fighting in the streets, with Iraqi insurgents putting up quite a fight. Karl Penhaul is embedded there with the U.S. Marines and filed this report a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The sky over Falluja seems to explode as U.S. Marines launch their much-trumpeted ground assault. Warplanes dropped cluster bombs on insurgent positions, and artillery batteries fire smoke rounds to conceal a Marine advance. Tracer fire and the rattle of machine guns crisscrosses the cityscape as insurgents fight back.
Above the raging battle, cries of "Allahu Akbar, "God is great," drift miles out into the desert as Muslim clerics chant from mosque loudspeakers. Many of the several thousand insurgents believe they're fighting a holy war against U.S. forces.
Each second explosions rock Falluja. Impossible at times to tell whether these are U.S. bombs or insurgent booby traps.
The first ferocious hour-and-a-half onslaught is followed by sporadic lulls. Parts of the northeast are on fire.
Earlier in the day, fighting flared in Falluja's western outskirts. U.S. Marines and Iraqi commandos seized control of the city hospital and of two bridges over the Euphrates River. Insurgents rallied and fought a five-hour street battle.
This was the picture in the desert just north of Falluja a few hours before the nighttime assault began. Marine infantrymen dug trenches to protect against insurgent mortar attack.
(on camera): It's about an hour away from sunset now, and these Marines have been waiting in these makeshift trenches for most of the day. When night fall does come, they may well get the order to go over the top and head into Falluja. That will mark the start of the ground assault on the rebel stronghold.
(voice-over): And as they waited, they thought.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, who can really say? I mean, people fear the unknown. I mean, I just don't really know.
PENHAUL: The fight for Falluja, now under way, could take several days, and the threat of insurgent booby traps and suicide attacks will never be far away.
Karl Penhaul, CNN, near Falluja.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Karl, thanks for that, embedded with the U.S. Marines.
Thousand of American and Iraqi troops fighting for Falluja. How is their strategy different now from what we talked about six months ago? Remarkably different is a way of telling it.
Retired Brigadier General David Grange, CNN military analyst, with me now from Chicago.
And General, nice to have you back with us here. And good morning.
I don't know if you heard Jane Arraf several minutes ago. She said they were moving into Falluja, to an area of that town that did not meet a lot of resistance. And then about 15 minutes ago, we get the phone call and say, "Things had opened up."
It's a tough thing to read from Chicago, but what is your take on what you're hearing at this point?
DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, one thing to keep in mind compared to last April, is that the mission this time is to destroy the insurgent force. And that means to make them incapable of future fighting.
So there's going to be a lot more killing this time than in the past. And I doubt there will be any negotiation until the city is done for. In other words, it's cleaned out and occupied and rebuilt.
What you saw of Jane, I think, is 2nd Infantry of the Big Red One, that task force moving rapidly to certain key objectives within the city. That doesn't mean that the area they went through does not have to be cleared later with follow-on forces. But they went to a key location in that particular interview with Jane.
HEMMER: Is it -- it's not beyond the realm of possibility, though, if the insurgents have a death wish. They could lure the U.S. forces in, and once they are in the center of Falluja, this is where the battle could take place. How strong do you see that possibility, General?
GRANGE: Well, that could happen. But you know what the coalition want, what the Iraqi army wants is the insurgents to come out.
Remember, insurgents survive by fighting a fleeting battle, relying on the IEDs, the booby traps, to go ahead and take down the coalition advancing forces. A lot of those are being neutralized either by air, by direct fire or by other means that the coalition has to pre-detonate the chargers before they can inflict casualties.
HEMMER: Want to put a map up on our screen so our viewers can follow along just a bit better with this. We're talking about a couple of areas of Falluja where the insurgents might likely be more so than others.
The Jolan neighborhood has been mentioned. The industrial park is an area that has been talked about as well. Do you know or does anyone know at this point where the heart of the insurgency right now might be hiding and ready to take on?
GRANGE: Well, I believe the coalition forces, American Marine and Army and any Iraqi forces, they know where the nests are, the main groupings are. That doesn't mean they won't shift. But they know that from fairly good intelligence that's coming out of the city prior to the attack and even during the attack.
And so they'll concentrate on those areas. The insurgents are going to use civilians for cover and they're going to industrial complexes in those type of places that are very difficult in an already difficult flight that's in the city.
HEMMER: Dan Senor, former spokesperson for coalition authority in Baghdad, was with us yesterday. He emphasized the point time and time again that it's different when Iraqis face Iraqis. And we've mentioned these Iraqi troops now working on behalf of the U.S. Marines and the U.S. Army. But there's this lingering report that says 500 did not show up for duty this week. I don't know what we can make of that report. But can you make sense of what Dan Senor emphasizes when he says when an Iraqi faces an Iraqi it is a completely different ball game in winning this?
GRANGE: Well, I think it's several reasons. One, is that it's fellow countrymen, and that's kind of tough.
You know, some of the same situation has happened in our civil war, and it's kind of tough to take out your own people. But, in fact, a lot of the military -- and I wouldn't take too much on the 500 that didn't show up. I'm sure that may be the case.
But there are some very well-trained Iraqi forces now involved in this fight, especially the 36 Commando that are very good. And they're taking down some of the harder targets. So I think it's much different than it was last April.
HEMMER: David Grange. Thank you, General. We'll talk again.
GRANGE: My pleasure.
HEMMER: From Chicago -- OK -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Here in the U.S., it is day five of the jury deliberations in the Scott Peterson case, and there are some signs some say of a stalemate. Will the six men and six women ever be able to reach a verdict? Former San Mateo prosecutor Dean Johnson back with us again from Redwood City, California, to talk about the in- camera decision.
Nice to see you, Dean. Thanks for being with us.
DEAN JOHNSON, FMR. SAN MATEO COUNTY PROSECUTOR: Good morning.
O'BRIEN: Let's start with what the judge said. He kind of gave the jurors a lecture. Here's what he said: "Do not hesitate to change your opinion for the purpose of reaching a verdict. It's rarely helpful for a juror at the beginning of deliberations to express an emphatic opinion on the case."
How unusual is this pretty much from the get-go?
JOHNSON: It's not unusual at all. In fact, what you just read is a standard jury instruction that was read at the beginning of jury deliberation, it's read in almost every case. And it tells these jurors that there is one type of juror who's a big problem. That's the person who comes in and pounds the table and says, "I'm going vote guilty or not guilty, and I'm not going to deliberate."
Apparently, there were one or more jurors who were just those types of problem jurors. It appears that the judge's warning has been taken to heart because they did later in the day move on to look at other evidence.
O'BRIEN: So then -- and obviously, you know, you could spend a lot of time reading into jurors, but, of course, until they come back with a verdict, we really don't know what happened. But would you say that there could be potential for a hung jury, that now the jurors have gotten on the straight and narrow and that's probably a bit overcome? What do you think?
JOHNSON: Well, in this case in particular, there is always the potential for a hung jury. And it does appear that there are some divisions on the jury. But the nice thing about this is this jury is going through this evidence in a very systematic way.
They have looked at boat. They have now the at the end of the day asked for tide charts to look at some of the debris that was recovered with Laci Peterson's body. And for the first time, they've also asked to listen to certain selected Amber Frey tapes. It appears that they are getting towards the end of looking at the evidence, and they are resolvingly whatever issues they have.
O'BRIEN: But you think all of those requests are just a systematic, well-organized jury trying to get through the evidence, as opposed to individual battles over some of this evidence?
JOHNSON: Well, I think there are battles. That's why the jury asks for those exhibits. But it seems like whatever battles there are, whatever specific elements of those -- the evidence and the exhibits they need to see, they're seeing it, they're resolving those battles, they're resolving those questions and moving through this evidence like a good jury should.
O'BRIEN: It's only been five days. How long would you expect it would take? And don't you love when I ask you these very hypothetical questions? How long would you expect that it would take for a five- month-long trial to have the jury be out to deliberate?
JOHNSON: Oh, there are no guidelines, really. I've seen special circumstance murder verdicts in two hours, and we've had juries out in California for as long as five months.
I think we're going to see some action towards the end of this week, however, because there are some critical dates coming up. Obviously a holiday. One juror, who's very well liked, apparently, by the other jurors needs surgery. I don't think they want to see her replaced. So we may very well see this wrapped up either Wednesday or possibly Friday.
O'BRIEN: Dean Johnson, former San Mateo County prosecutor joining us. Nice to see you, Dean. Thanks, as always.
JOHNSON: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: Thirteen minutes past. Back to Chad Myers checking the weather outside.
And Chad, good morning.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Bill. (WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: Chad, thanks for that. See you in 30 minutes.
In a moment here, test dieters consistently lost weight with a new drug. Now the question is whether or not should the public expect a magic pill. We'll talk about that coming up here.
O'BRIEN: And you know they're expecting one.
HEMMER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Will they get one is probably a better question.
Also this morning, there she is, Lynne Cheney, of course the wife of the vice president. We're going to talk with her this morning about the bruising presidential campaign, and she's got a new book about history. That's ahead.
HEMMER: Also, this police shootout, Soledad, that rivals anything you will see in a movie. Broad daylight, too. We'll get to it ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Lynne Cheney is keeping her day job as America's second lady. The long political campaign has not kept her from pursuing one of her passions, too. That's American history.
She's already written two best-selling children's books on the topic. And now comes her third, "When Washington Crossed the Delaware." Lynne Cheney with us now to talk about the book and also the aftermath of campaign 2004.
Good morning.
LYNNE CHENEY, WIFE OF VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY: Good morning.
HEMMER: Great to see you in person again.
CHENEY: It's good to be back.
HEMMER: Did you catch up on sleep?
CHENEY: I did finally. I had one long night's sleep.
HEMMER: I want to talk about the book in a moment but I need to hear thoughts first on this campaign.
On Election Day, when were you made aware of the exit polling that was going around all the news rooms and all the campaigns?
CHENEY: I think it was really early in the afternoon. I found them on the Internet. And Dick was taking a nap at time, and I didn't want to wake him up and tell him this bad news. And as soon as he did wake up and I told him, he was very skeptical and the exit polls were so out of joint with what we'd seen in our own internal...
HEMMER: Skeptical where? In a particular state or among genders?
CHENEY: I remember he thought, "Nineteen points in Pennsylvania? That just seems like it comes from another planet somewhere."
HEMMER: Over the weekend, Karl Rove said it made him physically ill.
CHENEY: I know exactly what he meant. I felt that way too, as though you've been punched in the stomach. Because it was so unexpected and so startling. Though, I suppose the feeling that you're losing wouldn't be fun under any circumstance, whether you're surprised or not.
HEMMER: Why do you believe, then -- cut through everything we've been talking about for the past: Why do you believe your husband won a second term with George Bush?
CHENEY: I think that security was probably the top issue. That's certainly the thing that we heard most about from people when we talked to them in town meetings: the idea that we're under a great challenge, that the president is resolute, that he has a clearly established strategy for dealing with the war on terror. So, I really do think that was probably the most important reason.
HEMMER: You say security. Where does the issue of morals fit into the equation as you size up this election?
CHENEY: Well, you know, that poll you're talking about was, sort of, interesting. It asks -- you're talking about a poll that showed more people citing moral values as important rather than the war on terrorism, the war in Iraq, taxes and the economy.
It was an oddly worded poll. If you put the war on terrorism and the war in Iraq together, it was the top issue, which I think most people see as part of the same thing.
HEMMER: So, are we giving that moral story more credit than it deserves then?
CHENEY: I do think security was the top issue, and I do think that the economy was the second issue. And I think that, you know, the president's tax cuts, his plan for going forward with a number of plans to make this the best country in the world to do business, to continue to grow jobs in the way we saw them go so importantly a few days ago...
HEMMER: On a personal level, when John Kerry mentioned your daughter's sexuality during this debate, did that cost him votes do you think or not?
CHENEY: Oh, I'm ready to move on from that. I think you saw polling data that most people overwhelmingly thought it was inappropriate. But, you know, I really think that was the campaign and it's really time now to move ahead.
HEMMER: I remember quite clearly the night, and I think you were in Pittsburgh around midnight after that debate, and you were on camera.
CHENEY: One of the difficulties is you're never sure where you are.
HEMMER: Well, you were somewhere in the U.S. and you were in front of a microphone and said, "This is not a good man." And you said it twice. Do you stand by that?
CHENEY: I think it's time to move on. Senator Kerry gave a gracious concession speech, and I think it really is time for us to move ahead and talk about my book.
HEMMER: How about it then? "Washington Crossing the Delaware"; would not see that as a children's book necessarily.
CHENEY: Oh, it's a wonderful story at Christmas time for children.
HEMMER: What are you trying to relay?
CHENEY: Washington crossed the Delaware on Christmas night. And he did this at a time when it looked as though we were going to lose the Revolutionary War; looked as though our goose was cooked, so to speak.
And he did something brave and bold. He worked with men under harsh circumstance, many of them had no shoes, they had no winter clothing, they didn't have enough to eat. They twice, at Trenton and then at Princeton, defeated the greatest military power in the world and really gave the whole nation a gift, the gift of hope that we would win our struggle, that we would become an independent nation.
I think in a time of year when kids are thinking a lot about, you know, presents, it's nice to talk to them about another kind of gift that you can give, and these brave fighting men certainly did that.
HEMMER: Good luck to you.
CHENEY: Thank you, Bill. Nice to see you.
HEMMER: And good luck on the third book out there too.
CHENEY: Thank you very much.
HEMMER: You're like Midas with the stuff, aren't you? Two best- sellers so far.
CHENEY: And all the proceeds, of course, go to charity, so it's a good thing to do.
HEMMER: Even better.
CHENEY: Good thing to do. Thank you.
HEMMER: Good to see you here in New York -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, as troops battle with insurgents in Falluja, they also battle with their conscience. We're going to hear from a Navy chaplain about the powerful questions that they often ask him.
That's ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues right after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back to "The Cafferty File" now with Jack.
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Bill.
Kindergartners in Massachusetts are about to get a hard dose of reality. Some schools are proposing report cards for five-year-olds. They will be graded on 19 standards, from listening skills to the ability to collect, record and represent data.
Some parents think the report cards are not a great idea. Proponents say it's not milk and cookies anymore, it's time to learn. These people are morons, OK?
A new reality program in Britain being called "Sex in the Sack Makeover Show." Cameras follow couples into the bedroom and then experts judge them on technique and style. This would qualify as being under a lot of pressure.
Think of it as making a whoopi how-to with cropped and pixilated footage. The show's two sexperts then rate the couples and offer advice on adding zing and fixing sexual dysfunction. Sort of a Dr. Phil for degenerates. This would be in England.
And finally, this scenario. You lose your cell phone, you have no idea where it went, so you dial your number and the dog starts ringing. That's what happened to a man in Turkey.
He found that his dog had, in fact, eaten his cell phone. And it was in the pooch's stomach when it began ringing. At least the phone wasn't set on vibrate. The dog would have gone nuts. The guy got eventually got his phone back, but we'll spare you the details of how that -- how that happened.
(LAUGHTER)
HEMMER: Thankfully for that. Thank you, Jack.
O'BRIEN: Good follow (ph), Jack.
HEMMER: In a moment here, live to the Pentagon. Reaction to what's going on in Falluja. Barbara Starr has that today.
And drama on the streets of Dallas. Bank robbery suspects shoot it out with police.
Back in a moment right after this on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired November 9, 2004 - 9:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The battle of Falluja is under way. Thousands of coalition troops push into the heart of the city.
A potential deadlock in the Scott Peterson trial. Jurors get a stern warning from the judge.
And a high-speed chase turns into a shootout. Bandits try a getaway in the Lone Star State.
All ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back. A bit past 9:00 here in New York City. Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING.
Keeping a very close eye on what's happening in Falluja at this hour. U.S. and Iraqi troops making their move to take out insurgents in the town. You heard from Jane Arraf a few moments ago the fighting is fierce in places.
Back in April, U.S. troops launched a similar offensive. Eventually they backed out. We'll talk to David Grange, our military analyst, this morning about why this is different, and also based on what we're hearing today from Falluja. We'll get his reaction.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, we'll talk with the wife of the vice president, Lynne Cheney, this morning. Her husband was more visible than usual during the campaign. We're going to ask her if whether that's a trend that's going to continue. And also, what the key points for the second Bush team are going to be.
HEMMER: Also, Jack Cafferty back with us.
Good morning.
O'BRIEN: Hey there.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Question of the Day: How would you fix Social Security? The e- mail address: am@cnn.com. We'll read some letters a bit later.
HEMMER: Good deal. A lot of headlines to talk about this morning. Let's start with Kelly Wallace, back with us here.
Good morning, Kelly.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you all again. Good morning, everyone.
Now in the news -- Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qorei has just paid a visit to the bedside of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. Qorei, along with three other top officials, have now left the French hospital where Arafat is being treated. The Palestinian delegation arrived in Paris last night. A spokesman for the military hospital said Arafat's condition has worsened.
Afghan officials say they're not going to give into kidnappers' demands despite a threat from a Taliban splinter group to kill one of three U.N. hostages. The U.N. workers were abducted in Kabul last month. Kidnappers say they will kill one of them unless dozens of Taliban prisoners are freed from Afghan and U.S. military custody.
And here in the United States, a brazen shootout in broad daylight. Bullets flying from a suspect's vehicle during a car chase in northern Texas.
This amazing video captured by cameras on police dashboards. One officer suffered minor injuries from the broken glass, but no one was shot. One of the suspects is now in police custody. Some unbelievable pictures there.
Bill, Soledad, get you caught up.
HEMMER: Brazen indeed.
WALLACE: Exactly.
HEMMER: Thank you, Kelly.
Let's get to Iraq, where American military officials say U.S. forces are now in the heart of Falluja with control of a third of that city. Fierce fighting in the streets, with Iraqi insurgents putting up quite a fight. Karl Penhaul is embedded there with the U.S. Marines and filed this report a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The sky over Falluja seems to explode as U.S. Marines launch their much-trumpeted ground assault. Warplanes dropped cluster bombs on insurgent positions, and artillery batteries fire smoke rounds to conceal a Marine advance. Tracer fire and the rattle of machine guns crisscrosses the cityscape as insurgents fight back.
Above the raging battle, cries of "Allahu Akbar, "God is great," drift miles out into the desert as Muslim clerics chant from mosque loudspeakers. Many of the several thousand insurgents believe they're fighting a holy war against U.S. forces.
Each second explosions rock Falluja. Impossible at times to tell whether these are U.S. bombs or insurgent booby traps.
The first ferocious hour-and-a-half onslaught is followed by sporadic lulls. Parts of the northeast are on fire.
Earlier in the day, fighting flared in Falluja's western outskirts. U.S. Marines and Iraqi commandos seized control of the city hospital and of two bridges over the Euphrates River. Insurgents rallied and fought a five-hour street battle.
This was the picture in the desert just north of Falluja a few hours before the nighttime assault began. Marine infantrymen dug trenches to protect against insurgent mortar attack.
(on camera): It's about an hour away from sunset now, and these Marines have been waiting in these makeshift trenches for most of the day. When night fall does come, they may well get the order to go over the top and head into Falluja. That will mark the start of the ground assault on the rebel stronghold.
(voice-over): And as they waited, they thought.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, who can really say? I mean, people fear the unknown. I mean, I just don't really know.
PENHAUL: The fight for Falluja, now under way, could take several days, and the threat of insurgent booby traps and suicide attacks will never be far away.
Karl Penhaul, CNN, near Falluja.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Karl, thanks for that, embedded with the U.S. Marines.
Thousand of American and Iraqi troops fighting for Falluja. How is their strategy different now from what we talked about six months ago? Remarkably different is a way of telling it.
Retired Brigadier General David Grange, CNN military analyst, with me now from Chicago.
And General, nice to have you back with us here. And good morning.
I don't know if you heard Jane Arraf several minutes ago. She said they were moving into Falluja, to an area of that town that did not meet a lot of resistance. And then about 15 minutes ago, we get the phone call and say, "Things had opened up."
It's a tough thing to read from Chicago, but what is your take on what you're hearing at this point?
DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, one thing to keep in mind compared to last April, is that the mission this time is to destroy the insurgent force. And that means to make them incapable of future fighting.
So there's going to be a lot more killing this time than in the past. And I doubt there will be any negotiation until the city is done for. In other words, it's cleaned out and occupied and rebuilt.
What you saw of Jane, I think, is 2nd Infantry of the Big Red One, that task force moving rapidly to certain key objectives within the city. That doesn't mean that the area they went through does not have to be cleared later with follow-on forces. But they went to a key location in that particular interview with Jane.
HEMMER: Is it -- it's not beyond the realm of possibility, though, if the insurgents have a death wish. They could lure the U.S. forces in, and once they are in the center of Falluja, this is where the battle could take place. How strong do you see that possibility, General?
GRANGE: Well, that could happen. But you know what the coalition want, what the Iraqi army wants is the insurgents to come out.
Remember, insurgents survive by fighting a fleeting battle, relying on the IEDs, the booby traps, to go ahead and take down the coalition advancing forces. A lot of those are being neutralized either by air, by direct fire or by other means that the coalition has to pre-detonate the chargers before they can inflict casualties.
HEMMER: Want to put a map up on our screen so our viewers can follow along just a bit better with this. We're talking about a couple of areas of Falluja where the insurgents might likely be more so than others.
The Jolan neighborhood has been mentioned. The industrial park is an area that has been talked about as well. Do you know or does anyone know at this point where the heart of the insurgency right now might be hiding and ready to take on?
GRANGE: Well, I believe the coalition forces, American Marine and Army and any Iraqi forces, they know where the nests are, the main groupings are. That doesn't mean they won't shift. But they know that from fairly good intelligence that's coming out of the city prior to the attack and even during the attack.
And so they'll concentrate on those areas. The insurgents are going to use civilians for cover and they're going to industrial complexes in those type of places that are very difficult in an already difficult flight that's in the city.
HEMMER: Dan Senor, former spokesperson for coalition authority in Baghdad, was with us yesterday. He emphasized the point time and time again that it's different when Iraqis face Iraqis. And we've mentioned these Iraqi troops now working on behalf of the U.S. Marines and the U.S. Army. But there's this lingering report that says 500 did not show up for duty this week. I don't know what we can make of that report. But can you make sense of what Dan Senor emphasizes when he says when an Iraqi faces an Iraqi it is a completely different ball game in winning this?
GRANGE: Well, I think it's several reasons. One, is that it's fellow countrymen, and that's kind of tough.
You know, some of the same situation has happened in our civil war, and it's kind of tough to take out your own people. But, in fact, a lot of the military -- and I wouldn't take too much on the 500 that didn't show up. I'm sure that may be the case.
But there are some very well-trained Iraqi forces now involved in this fight, especially the 36 Commando that are very good. And they're taking down some of the harder targets. So I think it's much different than it was last April.
HEMMER: David Grange. Thank you, General. We'll talk again.
GRANGE: My pleasure.
HEMMER: From Chicago -- OK -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Here in the U.S., it is day five of the jury deliberations in the Scott Peterson case, and there are some signs some say of a stalemate. Will the six men and six women ever be able to reach a verdict? Former San Mateo prosecutor Dean Johnson back with us again from Redwood City, California, to talk about the in- camera decision.
Nice to see you, Dean. Thanks for being with us.
DEAN JOHNSON, FMR. SAN MATEO COUNTY PROSECUTOR: Good morning.
O'BRIEN: Let's start with what the judge said. He kind of gave the jurors a lecture. Here's what he said: "Do not hesitate to change your opinion for the purpose of reaching a verdict. It's rarely helpful for a juror at the beginning of deliberations to express an emphatic opinion on the case."
How unusual is this pretty much from the get-go?
JOHNSON: It's not unusual at all. In fact, what you just read is a standard jury instruction that was read at the beginning of jury deliberation, it's read in almost every case. And it tells these jurors that there is one type of juror who's a big problem. That's the person who comes in and pounds the table and says, "I'm going vote guilty or not guilty, and I'm not going to deliberate."
Apparently, there were one or more jurors who were just those types of problem jurors. It appears that the judge's warning has been taken to heart because they did later in the day move on to look at other evidence.
O'BRIEN: So then -- and obviously, you know, you could spend a lot of time reading into jurors, but, of course, until they come back with a verdict, we really don't know what happened. But would you say that there could be potential for a hung jury, that now the jurors have gotten on the straight and narrow and that's probably a bit overcome? What do you think?
JOHNSON: Well, in this case in particular, there is always the potential for a hung jury. And it does appear that there are some divisions on the jury. But the nice thing about this is this jury is going through this evidence in a very systematic way.
They have looked at boat. They have now the at the end of the day asked for tide charts to look at some of the debris that was recovered with Laci Peterson's body. And for the first time, they've also asked to listen to certain selected Amber Frey tapes. It appears that they are getting towards the end of looking at the evidence, and they are resolvingly whatever issues they have.
O'BRIEN: But you think all of those requests are just a systematic, well-organized jury trying to get through the evidence, as opposed to individual battles over some of this evidence?
JOHNSON: Well, I think there are battles. That's why the jury asks for those exhibits. But it seems like whatever battles there are, whatever specific elements of those -- the evidence and the exhibits they need to see, they're seeing it, they're resolving those battles, they're resolving those questions and moving through this evidence like a good jury should.
O'BRIEN: It's only been five days. How long would you expect it would take? And don't you love when I ask you these very hypothetical questions? How long would you expect that it would take for a five- month-long trial to have the jury be out to deliberate?
JOHNSON: Oh, there are no guidelines, really. I've seen special circumstance murder verdicts in two hours, and we've had juries out in California for as long as five months.
I think we're going to see some action towards the end of this week, however, because there are some critical dates coming up. Obviously a holiday. One juror, who's very well liked, apparently, by the other jurors needs surgery. I don't think they want to see her replaced. So we may very well see this wrapped up either Wednesday or possibly Friday.
O'BRIEN: Dean Johnson, former San Mateo County prosecutor joining us. Nice to see you, Dean. Thanks, as always.
JOHNSON: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: Thirteen minutes past. Back to Chad Myers checking the weather outside.
And Chad, good morning.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Bill. (WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: Chad, thanks for that. See you in 30 minutes.
In a moment here, test dieters consistently lost weight with a new drug. Now the question is whether or not should the public expect a magic pill. We'll talk about that coming up here.
O'BRIEN: And you know they're expecting one.
HEMMER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Will they get one is probably a better question.
Also this morning, there she is, Lynne Cheney, of course the wife of the vice president. We're going to talk with her this morning about the bruising presidential campaign, and she's got a new book about history. That's ahead.
HEMMER: Also, this police shootout, Soledad, that rivals anything you will see in a movie. Broad daylight, too. We'll get to it ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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HEMMER: Lynne Cheney is keeping her day job as America's second lady. The long political campaign has not kept her from pursuing one of her passions, too. That's American history.
She's already written two best-selling children's books on the topic. And now comes her third, "When Washington Crossed the Delaware." Lynne Cheney with us now to talk about the book and also the aftermath of campaign 2004.
Good morning.
LYNNE CHENEY, WIFE OF VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY: Good morning.
HEMMER: Great to see you in person again.
CHENEY: It's good to be back.
HEMMER: Did you catch up on sleep?
CHENEY: I did finally. I had one long night's sleep.
HEMMER: I want to talk about the book in a moment but I need to hear thoughts first on this campaign.
On Election Day, when were you made aware of the exit polling that was going around all the news rooms and all the campaigns?
CHENEY: I think it was really early in the afternoon. I found them on the Internet. And Dick was taking a nap at time, and I didn't want to wake him up and tell him this bad news. And as soon as he did wake up and I told him, he was very skeptical and the exit polls were so out of joint with what we'd seen in our own internal...
HEMMER: Skeptical where? In a particular state or among genders?
CHENEY: I remember he thought, "Nineteen points in Pennsylvania? That just seems like it comes from another planet somewhere."
HEMMER: Over the weekend, Karl Rove said it made him physically ill.
CHENEY: I know exactly what he meant. I felt that way too, as though you've been punched in the stomach. Because it was so unexpected and so startling. Though, I suppose the feeling that you're losing wouldn't be fun under any circumstance, whether you're surprised or not.
HEMMER: Why do you believe, then -- cut through everything we've been talking about for the past: Why do you believe your husband won a second term with George Bush?
CHENEY: I think that security was probably the top issue. That's certainly the thing that we heard most about from people when we talked to them in town meetings: the idea that we're under a great challenge, that the president is resolute, that he has a clearly established strategy for dealing with the war on terror. So, I really do think that was probably the most important reason.
HEMMER: You say security. Where does the issue of morals fit into the equation as you size up this election?
CHENEY: Well, you know, that poll you're talking about was, sort of, interesting. It asks -- you're talking about a poll that showed more people citing moral values as important rather than the war on terrorism, the war in Iraq, taxes and the economy.
It was an oddly worded poll. If you put the war on terrorism and the war in Iraq together, it was the top issue, which I think most people see as part of the same thing.
HEMMER: So, are we giving that moral story more credit than it deserves then?
CHENEY: I do think security was the top issue, and I do think that the economy was the second issue. And I think that, you know, the president's tax cuts, his plan for going forward with a number of plans to make this the best country in the world to do business, to continue to grow jobs in the way we saw them go so importantly a few days ago...
HEMMER: On a personal level, when John Kerry mentioned your daughter's sexuality during this debate, did that cost him votes do you think or not?
CHENEY: Oh, I'm ready to move on from that. I think you saw polling data that most people overwhelmingly thought it was inappropriate. But, you know, I really think that was the campaign and it's really time now to move ahead.
HEMMER: I remember quite clearly the night, and I think you were in Pittsburgh around midnight after that debate, and you were on camera.
CHENEY: One of the difficulties is you're never sure where you are.
HEMMER: Well, you were somewhere in the U.S. and you were in front of a microphone and said, "This is not a good man." And you said it twice. Do you stand by that?
CHENEY: I think it's time to move on. Senator Kerry gave a gracious concession speech, and I think it really is time for us to move ahead and talk about my book.
HEMMER: How about it then? "Washington Crossing the Delaware"; would not see that as a children's book necessarily.
CHENEY: Oh, it's a wonderful story at Christmas time for children.
HEMMER: What are you trying to relay?
CHENEY: Washington crossed the Delaware on Christmas night. And he did this at a time when it looked as though we were going to lose the Revolutionary War; looked as though our goose was cooked, so to speak.
And he did something brave and bold. He worked with men under harsh circumstance, many of them had no shoes, they had no winter clothing, they didn't have enough to eat. They twice, at Trenton and then at Princeton, defeated the greatest military power in the world and really gave the whole nation a gift, the gift of hope that we would win our struggle, that we would become an independent nation.
I think in a time of year when kids are thinking a lot about, you know, presents, it's nice to talk to them about another kind of gift that you can give, and these brave fighting men certainly did that.
HEMMER: Good luck to you.
CHENEY: Thank you, Bill. Nice to see you.
HEMMER: And good luck on the third book out there too.
CHENEY: Thank you very much.
HEMMER: You're like Midas with the stuff, aren't you? Two best- sellers so far.
CHENEY: And all the proceeds, of course, go to charity, so it's a good thing to do.
HEMMER: Even better.
CHENEY: Good thing to do. Thank you.
HEMMER: Good to see you here in New York -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, as troops battle with insurgents in Falluja, they also battle with their conscience. We're going to hear from a Navy chaplain about the powerful questions that they often ask him.
That's ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues right after this short break.
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HEMMER: Welcome back to "The Cafferty File" now with Jack.
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Bill.
Kindergartners in Massachusetts are about to get a hard dose of reality. Some schools are proposing report cards for five-year-olds. They will be graded on 19 standards, from listening skills to the ability to collect, record and represent data.
Some parents think the report cards are not a great idea. Proponents say it's not milk and cookies anymore, it's time to learn. These people are morons, OK?
A new reality program in Britain being called "Sex in the Sack Makeover Show." Cameras follow couples into the bedroom and then experts judge them on technique and style. This would qualify as being under a lot of pressure.
Think of it as making a whoopi how-to with cropped and pixilated footage. The show's two sexperts then rate the couples and offer advice on adding zing and fixing sexual dysfunction. Sort of a Dr. Phil for degenerates. This would be in England.
And finally, this scenario. You lose your cell phone, you have no idea where it went, so you dial your number and the dog starts ringing. That's what happened to a man in Turkey.
He found that his dog had, in fact, eaten his cell phone. And it was in the pooch's stomach when it began ringing. At least the phone wasn't set on vibrate. The dog would have gone nuts. The guy got eventually got his phone back, but we'll spare you the details of how that -- how that happened.
(LAUGHTER)
HEMMER: Thankfully for that. Thank you, Jack.
O'BRIEN: Good follow (ph), Jack.
HEMMER: In a moment here, live to the Pentagon. Reaction to what's going on in Falluja. Barbara Starr has that today.
And drama on the streets of Dallas. Bank robbery suspects shoot it out with police.
Back in a moment right after this on AMERICAN MORNING.
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