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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Troops Meeting Little Resistance in Falluja; Palestinian Officials Prepare for Arafat's Death; Scott Peterson Juror to be Replaced
Aired November 09, 2004 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening now: in the battle of Falluja, a rising and deadly toll. Today, reports of 10 United States troops dead, more than 20 wounded.
For the first time since the battle started, President Bush is speaking out.
And we've just heard from Senator John Kerry. He's now back in Washington.
Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Battle of Falluja. They're taking the fight to the insurgents. But have the leaders slipped away?
Arafat's fate.
NABIL SHA'ATH, PALESTINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: His brain, his heart, his lungs still function. And he is alive.
BLITZER: The Palestinians make it clear the end is near as plans are made for a burial.
Survivors.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't understand it. I couldn't comprehend it.
BLITZER: They shared the horror of genocide. Now they share hope.
Middle-aged mom. Twins at age 56. Is there anything wrong with that?
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Tuesday, November 9, 2004.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: It's the second day of what the U.S. military is now calling the New Dawn in Falluja. The operation is aimed at crushing the insurgents in their stronghold. How many insurgents are still there? We'll go live to the front lines in a moment, but we begin with our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the U.S. commander today delivered an upbeat assessment of how the offensive is going, saying that U.S. troops were meeting only some sporadic resistance.
But it raises a question, as you said, of how many insurgents are really left in Falluja.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): Despite predictions of some of the fiercest urban warfare since Vietnam, so far U.S. and Iraqi forces are meeting only sporadic and ineffective resistance as they move deeper into Falluja, according to U.S. commanders.
LT. GEN. THOMAS METZ, MULTINATIONAL CORPS-IRAQ COMMANDER: I think the enemy is fighting hard, but not to the death, and I think that they are continuing to fall back.
MCINTYRE: The U.S. and Iraqi troops are finding fewer booby traps and bombs than expected and so far, casualties have been light for urban combat. In the first 48 hours, 10 U.S. and two Iraqi troops were killed, with about two dozen wounded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay out of the streets. Make sure you guys say on the side of the wall. Go watch the top and bottom. Watch the windows. Watch everywhere you go. Check the walls.
MCINTYRE: The offensive is ahead of schedule, with many key objectives taken as the outer crust of the insurgent defense crumble under the U.S.-Iraqi assault.
Along with the bridges across the Euphrates, the rail station, the hospital, several military buildings and mosques are now secure as the strangle hold tightens on the Jolan district, thought to be an insurgent stronghold.
METZ: I think we're looking at several more days of tough urban fighting. I'm very pleased at the position that we have -- we have the force in right now, and the -- situation that the enemy is facing. He doesn't have an escape route, because we do have the cordon around the city very tight.
MCINTYRE: But Metz concedes the most wanted man in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi probably did escape along with his senior leaders.
METZ: I think it would be -- it's fair to assume that he's left, because we would then continue our intel effort across the country looking for him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: The U.S. and Iraqi troops have found fewer booby traps and one reason may be because of effective use of air power.
Look at this video that the Pentagon has released, showing a 500- pound bomb being dropped from an F-18 along a main road near Falluja. The bomb hits what is believed to be a roadside bomb. It sets off a chain reaction of other bombs in a daisy chain. This air strike took out those bombs, allowing that road to be traversed safely -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. Jamie, thank you very much.
President Bush spoke out for the first time today about the fighting in Falluja. It happened after he and the first lady, Laura Bush, visited with wounded troops over at Walter Reed Army Medical Center here in Washington, D.C.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The request of the Allawi government and alongside of Iraqi troops, coalition force are now moving into Falluja to bring to justice those who are willing to kill the innocent, those who are trying to terrorize the Iraqi people and our coalition, those who want to stop democracy. They're not going to succeed.
And so we wish our troops all the best. Godspeed to them, as well. Thank you all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: More than 1,100 American troops have been killed in the Iraq war, and at least 10 were killed in the Falluja area yesterday and today.
Coming up shortly, I'll speak live about the battle of Falluja with retired U.S. Army General George Joulwan, the former supreme allied commander of NATO. He'll join us here.
But let's turn now to what's becoming a deathwatch over Yasser Arafat. Top Palestinian officials in France to find out more about their leader's fate finally got some firsthand information earlier today. It was precisely what they had feared.
CNN's Fionnuala Sweeney reports from Paris.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FIONNUALA SWEENEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A day of comings and goings by the Palestinian delegation in Paris. A visit to the Percy Military Hospital and consultations with doctors resulted in the first definitive news in days about Yasser Arafat's health.
SHA'ATH: Since last Wednesday, he has been in a coma and that coma has deepened last night. Having said that and having recognized the critical situation in which President Arafat is in today, his brain, his heart and his lungs still function, and he is alive. SWEENEY: Nabil Sha'ath also saying doctors had ruled out diagnoses of cancers, malignancies and poisoning, adding the doctors attributed the Palestinian leader's deteriorating health to his age and recent living conditions.
The Palestinian Authority making concerted efforts to end recent media speculation surrounding Yasser Arafat's health.
A rapprochement of sorts, it seems, has taken place between the Palestinian delegation and Suha Arafat. Under French law as his next of kin, she alone reserved the right as to determine how much information could be publicly released about her husband. That had resulted in much unofficial information that was often contradictory.
In Ramallah, further indications that Yasser Arafat's struggle between life and death is nearing an end: news that the Palestinian Authority president had suffered a brain hemorrhage. Palestinian authorities now forced to think the unthinkable, where to bury him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are -- we believe in God and in case the worst would happen, all arrangements will take place here in Ramallah.
SWEENEY (on camera): And the comings and goings continue. As the Palestinian delegation returns to Ramallah, a senior Islamic cleric is making his way to Paris to be at Yasser Arafat's bedside and to ensure that Islamic tradition is maintained.
Fionnuala Sweeney, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Palestinians are realizing that the end of an era is near, and they are already preparing to mourn the loss of the only leader they've ever known. But amid the planning for a funeral and for a political transition, there are growing questions about Yasser Arafat's finances, vast resources which should belong to the Palestinian people.
CNN's John Vause reports from Jerusalem.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the end, could it have all come down to money? Palestinian sources tell CNN Yasser Arafat never made a will, and for more than a week, his wife, Suha, has been locked in a bitter struggle with Palestinian officials over hundreds of millions of dollars, maybe more.
SHMUEL BAR, FORMER ISRAELI INTEL OFFICER: What Suha wanted to do, apparently, was to get hold of the -- of the money, which was specifically in Arafat's name, because she is his wife, of course, had a claim to part of it. And she knew that the only hold she has, actually, is -- the leverage she has is -- is the body and the burial.
VAUSE: So, how much is Arafat worth? "Forbes" magazine estimates his wealth around $300 million, but two years ago, Israeli intelligence put the figure at $1.3 billion, perhaps more.
BASSAM EID, PALESTINIAN POLITICAL ACTIVIST: Which makes the Palestinians so sick when they are hearing about such a huge amount of money.
VAUSE: For decades, Arafat personally controlled the finances of the PLO. Hundreds of millions of dollars flowed from the Arab rich oil state between 1978 and 1990.
After the Oslo peace accord, billions more were donated from Europe, Japan and the United States, with very little ever reaching ordinary Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.
Hundreds of millions of dollars were collected by the Israelis, sales tax on goods purchased by Palestinians and deposited into Arafat's personal account at this Tel Aviv bank.
BAR: We actually gave Arafat the money on a personal basis.
VAUSE: Israeli officials believe Suha Arafat received an annual allowance of more than $1 million. And French officials are reportedly investigating the transfer of millions more into her Paris bank account.
SILVAN SHALOM, ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTER: She got a huge amount of money every month from Yasser Arafat. There are some rumors about close to $1 million each month.
VAUSE: The Israelis believe Arafat made investments around the world, factories, cell phone companies, hotels and real estate.
BAR: All of his money peoples, financial advisers, were in contact with people all over the world, and they got proposals and they invested.
VAUSE: But the weighted bank accounts and investments are so complex and so difficult to trace, chances are not all of it will ever be found.
MUSTAFA BARGOUTI, PALESTINIAN POLITICAL ACTIVIST: There is a rule of law and I think the rule of law must be applied. And everything that belongs to the Palestinian people must go back to the Palestinian people.
VAUSE (on camera): Arafat never lived a lavish lifestyle. The bulk of the money, according to Israeli intelligence, went to bribes and buying influence. Just a small fraction was spent on guns and bullets. Sometimes loyalty costs a lot more.
John Vause, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Did the poor conditions inside Arafat's headquarters in Ramallah attribute to his condition? His foreign minister, Nabil Sha'ath, makes that allegation. Later this hour, we'll take you inside the complex that's known as the Muqata, where I interviewed Yasser Arafat two years ago. You can see for yourself what it was like.
For the first time since his concession speech in Boston, John Kerry is now speaking out once again, only within the past few minutes. He's got a new message about those who voted for him. We'll hear precisely what he had to say.
Falluja offensive. Could the mission's success or failure ultimately hinge on civilian casualties?
And a real life cops and robbers drama caught on videotape by a police cruiser camera. We'll show you.
Plus this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever the Germans tell you, do the opposite. Then go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: They survived some of the worst horrors of the 21st Century decades apart. Now they're working together with a common goal.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Senator John Kerry is back in Washington. He is still, after all, a United States senator. And only within the past few minutes, he spoke out about the new days ahead for him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Fifty- four plus million Americans voted for health care. They voted for energy independence. They voted for unity in America. They voted for stem cell research. They voted for protecting Social Security.
We need to be unified, and we have a very clear agenda. And I'm going to be fighting for that agenda with all of the energy that I have and all of the passion I brought to the campaign, period. Thank you all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Senator John Kerry speaking here in Washington just a few minutes ago, promising he's going to fight on.
As we mentioned, this is the second day of a major U.S.-led military offensive in Iraq to retake the insurgent stronghold of Falluja. American and Iraqi troops are in the center of the city where the fighting, at times, has been intense and house-to-house. Joining us now with his assessment of the battle as it's unfolding, retired U.S. Army General George Joulwan, the former supreme allied commander of NATO.
General, thanks very much. What's your assessment, based on the press reports, what you're hearing right now? How's it going?
GEN. GEORGE JOULWAN, FORMER SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER OF NATO: First of all, it's been light resistance. I think, as we talked about in the past, we did not achieve strategic surprise. I think the enemy knew we were coming.
So in that regard, there's been light resistance. I think it's been very good success. And I think success is important here, not just for the American troops, but also for the Iraqi troops.
BLITZER: Light resistance, but 10 Americans are -- in two days, 10 U.S. troops are dead, 20 are wounded. That number presumably, unfortunately, is going to go up. That sounds like the U.S. is taking some significant casualties.
JOULWAN: Well, if you're one of the 10 families of one of those troops, yes, it's indeed significant, and we all pass our condolences on to those families.
But in this urban setting, that limited number of casualties, I think, is indeed light, given the size of this town and some of the resistance and IEDs, these improvised explosive devices that we've run into.
BLITZER: Why do you believe this was such a widely advertised military offensive and the element of surprise really was gone?
JOULWAN: I think you have to go back to April when we had the first offensive in there, where we went in and there were civilian casualties and then we pulled out. I think that, indeed, was a mistake.
This time, there was a build up. We had to get the Iraqi interim president's approval. There had to be political approval. All of those steps needed to be taken. And so when you do that, you lose some strategic surprise.
But, Wolf, in the end, I think it's important that we demonstrate that we can eliminate and take control places like Falluja. Unfortunately, there are other places, Ramadi, Samarra and others that will have to be similarly dealt with.
BLITZER: And these insurgents, the leaders, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and others who may have escaped, they're only going to set up shop someplace else.
JOULWAN: They will. But I think part of this, in my opinion, is that you have to build some confidence here, not just in American troops, but more importantly in the Iraqi police and military. They've got to have some confidence. And there were -- there were reports of desertions and units that didn't totally deploy, but step-by-step, I think you can build that confidence. And that is going to be extremely important in the long run here for the future of Iraq.
BLITZER: What are you hearing about the ability, the willingness of the Iraqi soldiers to fight?
JOULWAN: Mixed. It is mixed. And I think we should expect that. After all, this has been just a few months that Petraeus has been dealing with this. And so I think we ought not to set the bar too high and we ought not to put them in situations where there's a high probability of failure.
That's why I think the mix of U.S. and Iraqi forces, coalition forces is extremely important. And I think to build that confidence, Falluja is the first step. There are going to be others. And that's going to be the key to the outcome in Iraq.
BLITZER: General George Joulwan, as usual, thank you very much.
JOULWAN: Thank you.
BLITZER: We always learn something from you.
JOULWAN: Thanks.
BLITZER: We've got a developing story, switching gears dramatically, out in California, Redwood City, California, in the Scott Peterson murder trial. Our David Mattingly is joining us now live with details.
What has happened, David?
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, just coming out of the courtroom just a few moments ago. The judge in the case has ordered that juror No. 7 be removed from the jury and then replaced by an alternate juror.
This means that the deliberations now will have to start all over again. This entire past week of deliberations going back to square one and beginning over again.
The court did not issue any reason why that juror No. 7 was kicked off the jury, but earlier today, sources close to the court told CNN that there were problems with a juror possibly doing some independent research. This is strictly forbidden, because the jurors are supposed to consider only the information that they hear in that courtroom.
Was that juror No. 7? We don't know exactly yet, because the court, the judge did not say so. But juror No. 7 has been replaced on the Scott Peterson jury, replaced by an alternate and the deliberations of this past week are out the window. The jury is starting over at square one with new deliberations -- Wolf. BLITZER: I understand, David, there are 12 jurors and three alternates. So there are two other alternates still in play in case they have to make another replacement. Is that right?
MATTINGLY: Prior to this replacement, there were actually five alternate jurors to pick from. We are now down to four. There was one juror was replaced on this jury months ago. But this -- we are now down to four jurors on the alternate list, so plenty of alternates still available in case any other problems come up in the future, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. David Mattingly, thanks very much for that. We're standing by to talk to our legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, get some more analysis on what this may mean for the fate of this jury deliberation. We'll get some more on that. That's coming up.
There are other stories we're following, including some bullets that have been flying and tires that have been screeching.
A very dangerous confrontation between police and suspected bank robbers. We'll show you how it ended.
Also, a hated symbol of the Cold War. Fifteen years after the fall of the Berlin Wall, what's changed?
And a new mother at age 56. Science, nature and the question: how old is too old? We'll ask the Berman sisters. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
BLITZER: One of the jurors in the Scott Peterson trial has been removed. Jeff Toobin joins us live with a little analysis.
Jeff, is this good for the prosecution, good for the defense?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good for the prosecution. This is a huge break. Judging from what the judge said yesterday, this case was really teetering on the brink of a mistrial, which certainly would have been a loss for the prosecution.
Now the jury is reconstituted with a problem juror off the jury. That can only be good for the prosecution.
BLITZER: What if this juror, though, was someone who was inclined to go along with the prosecution and convict?
TOOBIN: We can't know that at this point. Knowing how this caseworks, I suspect that this juror will be doing interviews at some point.
But the point is, a mistrial, a hung jury would certainly be a loss for the prosecution. And this introduction of a new juror, this exclusion of a juror who was a problem in some way, that's a good thing for the prosecution. BLITZER: All right. Jeff Toobin with a little analysis for us.
One of the jurors has been removed. The jury will now start from scratch, continue its deliberations with a new juror, one of the alternates who has been moved in. There are still two or three other alternates available in case this should happen again.
Moving on again now, it looks like something out of a movie, but this was all too real for police in suburban Dallas, who found themselves caught up in a shoot out and a chase with three bank robbery suspects, all of it recorded by a camera on the cruiser's dashboard.
CNN's Ed Lavandera has the story and the amazing video from Dallas.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got automatic fire. Automatic.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's about 10:30 in the morning last Thursday. Police say the three men inside the red Suburban had just robbed a bank in the north Dallas suburb of Richardson.
As the men tried to get away, they came across an off-duty police officer and opened fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My squad was shot up. I repeat, my squad was shot up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've got a lot of glass damage only.
LAVANDERA: In a matter of seconds, a team of Richardson police get dangerously close.
The gunmen, using AK-47 style weapons, fire more than 100 rounds. The officer in this case escapes unharmed, even though one of the bullets pierced the headrest of the driver's seat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've got to be careful, man. That is automatic weapon fire.
LAVANDERA: The gunmen escape the first exchange. The chase continues, but the men look for another escape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looks like they abandoned the vehicle and they hopped into another vehicle.
LAVANDERA: Now the bandits are in a white pickup truck, but that ride doesn't last long.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got a 44. They're bailing.
LAVANDERA: As the three men climb out of the pickup, one turns around and continues firing, even as another car coasts through the intersection.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're shooting up my squad. More shots fired. More shots fired!
LAVANDERA: The three men run away on foot. Police say they stole another car and were able to get away. The chase lasted less than 15 minutes, and no one was seriously hurt.
Ed Lavandera, CNN, Dallas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: One of the suspects turned himself in over the weekend. Police are still looking for two others. They say the three are members of a gang known as the Takeover Bandits, and they're accused of robbing over 60 area banks over the last four years.
Caught in the cross fire, as U.S. and Iraqi forces battle a resisting insurgency, what will the civilian cost be of this offensive?
Inside Yasser Arafat's compound. Did the Palestinian leader's living conditions contribute to his ailing health? I'll take you inside the Muqata.
And celebrating an end of an era. What's changed in the 15 years since the fall of the Berlin Wall? We'll take a closer look later.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Civilians caught in the crossfire, it happens in every war. And as fighting rages in the insurgent stronghold of Falluja, that Iraqi city isn't likely to be any exception.
For more on the ramifications of civilian casualties in Falluja, let's go live to CNN's Zain Verjee. She's joining us from the CNN Center -- Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the Pentagon says enemy casualties in Falluja are significantly higher than expected, while friendly casualties are light.
In an urban warfare environment, enemies and friends are really hard to distinguish and civilians could be killed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE (voice-over): Any success in Falluja could turn into failure if a large number of civilians are killed in crossfire between U.S.-led forces and insurgents. As one Marine officer soldier said, they'll win if it's bloody. We'll win if we minimize civilian casualties.
TONY PERRY, "THE LOS ANGELES TIMES": Given the volatility of the area, an Iraq civilian population could turn against both their won fledging government and the U.S. if there are large-scale civilian casualties.
VERJEE: Asked about the danger of civilian casualties in Falluja, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had this to say.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: There aren't going to be large numbers of civilians killed, certainly not by U.S. forces.
VERJEE: Rumsfeld added, U.S. forces fighting in Falluja are disciplined in using precision methods to target insurgents, but even extraordinary care may be unlikely to eliminate risk.
STEPHEN GREY, "SUNDAY TIMES": The insurgents like to fight among women and children.
VERJEE: It's also hard to know who is an insurgent and who isn't.
GREY: They're dressed in the same way as civilians. They will be firing from windows in which there may be civilians in the same houses.
VERJEE: Tribal ties are strong in Falluja. And insurgents could hide and fight among their kin.
Reports for high civilian casualties during an earlier assault on Falluja in April inflamed Iraqi anger and the U.S. eventually pulled out. The U.S. military says half to as much as three-quarters of Falluja's 300,000 residents have fled. That would leave anywhere from 75,000 to 150,000 civilians in the city taking cover in the very same buildings that could be caught in the crossfire.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: Wolf, there's also a danger high civilian casualties in Falluja could push the Iraqi Sunnis further from the political process, rather than bring them into the fold ahead of elections in January -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Zain Verjee reporting for us -- thank you, Zain, very much.
Yasser Arafat had been contained to his Ramallah headquarters by sir for almost three years. And at least one of his top advisers is now speculating that the conditions inside there, which I have seen firsthand, may have contributed to Arafat's current health crisis.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Yasser Arafat's Ramallah headquarters, the Muqata in Arabic, it has been his home since Israeli troops stormed the sprawling complex in March 2002.
That May, I traveled to Ramallah to interview Arafat and found that, although it's only 15 minutes from Jerusalem under normal circumstances, in reality, the Muqata is a world away. Large areas of complex lie in ruins, bulldozed by Israeli forces. Armed men mill around amid a fleet of broken-down cars and trucks. Inside, we were led to Arafat's personal quarters, the atmosphere, stuffy and smoky with windows kept closed for security.
Even at the time, more than two years ago, there were signs of health problems, a noticeable tremor. Are the miserable conditions at the Muqata what made Arafat ill? His foreign minister says doctors think so.
SHA'ATH: The doctors, by and large, favor the explanation that his age, the last -- 75 years old, difficult life -- the last three and a half years incarcerated in a very small office, and which had very little oxygen and very bad sanitary situation, and siege by the Israeli army have contributed to a variety of digestive tract ailments.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Arafat remains in critical condition in a deep coma, according to the foreign minister, Nabil Sha'ath.
Amid fighting in Iraq and uncertainty over the Palestinian leadership, there's an anniversary ceremony in Germany that has been under way today. The Berlin Wall fell 15 years ago, marking, many say, at least the symbolic end of the Cold War and fueling great hopes for a new era of world peace. Today, some people are asking this question. What went wrong?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): It's the enduring symbol of the fall of communism. On November 9, 1989, 15 years ago today, jubilant Germans breached the ugly concrete wall that separated East and West Berlin. Soon, the wall began to disappear piece by piece, visible evidence that the Cold War was over.
WILLIAM COHEN, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: When the Berlin Wall collapsed, my hope was that we would see the spread of democracy throughout those countries that had been so oppressed under the heel and boot of tyranny and totalitarianism. And for the most part, that hope has been realized.
BLITZER: But the collapse of communism in Europe also had another effect. It produced a power vacuum, upsetting a 44-year balance of power that had kept the world reasonably stable.
COL. THOMAS HAMMES, U.S. MARINES CORPS: Many of the regimes were propped up either by the United States or by the USSR in an effort in our competition. When that competition went away and we no longer propped up the regime, he was taken out. And now they have to have their fight about who is going to rule.
BLITZER: Ethnic conflicts turned into wars. And while the West was accustomed to dealing with communists, dealing with terrorists was a different matter.
HAMMES: The problem there is, they don't have a return address. If you know where it came from, they know that they would get nuked in return. And that creates a certain deterrent.
BLITZER: The world was a different place before the Berlin Wall came down. Was it a safer place or were we just facing a different kind of danger?
COHEN: Any time you have two superpowers operating on almost a hair-trigger basis to unleash 20,000 or 30,000 nuclear weapons, one can't say that we were safe in any absolute sense.
HAMMES: There was less violence, less day-to-day death, but there's a lot less chance of a really massive kill-off now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: The German chancellor, Gerhard Schroeder, today called the fall of the Berlin Wall a triumph of freedom and democracy. Some Germans, though, say continued economic problems in the former East Germany have dimmed the euphoria they felt 15 years ago.
It's a boy, well, and a girl. A New York woman is a mother of twins at the age of 56. We'll update you on the health of all three. But is it all a good thing for women to be waiting until midlife to start having children? I'll ask the Berman sisters. They're standing by to weigh in.
And, later:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACQUELINE MUREKATETE, RWANDAN GENOCIDE SURVIVOR: Every day, I learned what had happened to my uncles, to my aunts, to friends. Some of them had been burned alive in their homes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: An extraordinary tale of two survivors' incredible stories of strength and brutality and support in numbers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: In a follow-up to a story we told you about yesterday, just three days before she turns 57, a New York woman is now a new mother. Aleta St. James gave birth today to twins, a girl and a boy.
An update now from CNN's Deborah Feyerick, who is joining us live in New York -- Deborah
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, most women nearing retirement want jewelry, a fancy car, a special trip when it comes to their birthday. Aleta St. James wanted something different and today she got it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK (voice-over): When people asked 56-year-old Aleta St. James why she decided to have babies so late in life, her reason is simple.
ALETA ST. JAMES, MOTHER: "Why not?" is my answer.
FEYERICK: In fact, her Italian-born grandmother, who had 13 kids, set the example.
ST. JAMES: My grandmother had my mother at 53. So I didn't have an idea that that was a problem.
FEYERICK: St. James is a motivational speaker who coaches people how to be happy. With the birth of twins Francesca and brother Gian, she has made her parents the happiest people in New York City.
CHESTER SLIWA, FATHER OF ST. JAMES: In our 80s, we got grandkids. So it will give us impetus and motive to live longer. So I expect to live to 105 now.
FEYERICK: St. James became pregnant through in-vitro fertilization. An egg was donated by a younger women, fertilized outside the womb, then implanted into the new mom's uterus. Her younger brother, Guardian Angel Curtis Sliwa, recently became a father himself.
CURTIS SLIWA, FOUNDER, GUARDIAN ANGELS: To deliver twins right before you're 57, to me, is just absolutely mind-boggling, a real miracle.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK: Natural conception ends when the body stops producing eggs. But a woman who is healthy with the right injections of hormones can create an environment in the uterus to carry an embryo, or, in this case, two, to term. And, remember, it's rare.
A fertility expert we spoke to said, it's not as if the phone has been ringing off the hook for women in their 60s wanting to have a baby -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Deborah Feyerick, thank you very much.
So are we likely to see more of these older moms as America's population ages? And what about the age difference? Is it a good thing for the parents and the children?
With us now, the Berman sisters, Laura and Jennifer, the hosts of "Berman & Berman" on the Discovery Health Channel. Laura is a psychologist and sex therapist. She is joining us from Chicago. Jennifer is a urologist. She is joining us from Los Angeles.
Jennifer, I'll start with you.
As far as medically, the health of the mother and the children, what do you make of this?
JENNIFER BERMAN, CO-HOST, "BERMAN & BERMAN": Well, one thing that I make with Aleta is she definitely has good genes, by the virtue of the fact that her mother had 13 children and by the virtue of the fact that she was able to carry both these babies to term.
One of my concerns is, though, is that the message that we're giving to women, that it's OK to wait that long, because our fertility actually declines at the age of 27. So I do have concerns about the message that we're giving to younger women that it's OK to wait, that it's safe to wait, because it's certainly not the case for all women.
BLITZER: Well, why isn't it safe to wait this long?
J. BERMAN: Well, it's not safe to wait this long, A, because it's very difficult, if not impossible, to conceive. B, the incidents of birth defects, miscarriage, risks to the babies and risks to the mother are higher when you're older.
And, in other cases, aside from Aleta's, there's other health conditions and health risks that older people suffer from, diabetes, high blood pressure, stroke, heart attacks. So you're putting a lot of stress on your body, you know, at that age.
BLITZER: Laura, what about psychologically? What do you make of the difference, the age difference, 56, almost 57 years old now that the twins are just born?
LAURA BERMAN, CO-HOST, "BERMAN & BERMAN": Well, I think Jennifer is right, that this sort of thing is the exception, rather than the rule. And it's not something that I think we're necessarily going to see women everywhere running out and doing.
The nice thing is that there are options available for women who, for whatever reason, want to postpone their reproductive years. Their chances aren't as great as when they were in their 20s, but there is -- medical technology is just getting more and more advanced. The down side, as you mentioned, is that, when you have a child older, it's exhausting to have a young child. It takes a lot of -- it puts a lot of stress on your body while you're pregnant and also while the child is young.
So, as women age and couples age, not only the mothers, but the fathers as well, they may not have the energy stores they need to keep up with young babies and toddlers, although, this generation of 50- plus women are the baby boomer women who are more healthy and vital than any generation before them. So, who is to say that they can't do the job?
BLITZER: Well, there are some people that are saying, because I'm getting tons of e-mail on this, who are saying it's simply unfair to the children, to these little kids, that they're going to have such old parents at a time when they really need their parents to be active participants in their lives.
(CROSSTALK)
J. BERMAN: Sorry.
I'll interject there, is that, just because you're old doesn't mean that you can't be a good parent. And, in a lot of ways, this couple or this woman might be more mature, financially secure, more capable of carrying a toddler around than somebody else. So just because you're old doesn't mean you're not capable.
L. BERMAN: And it's based on the perception that she's going to live to what was the average age 10, 15 years ago. And the average age, the average extension of life is much greater now. People are living longer than ever before. Projections for the length of life for my generation is in the hundreds.
So I think that it's something that we are assuming that a woman who is 56 may only have 10 or 15 years with her children, when that is not necessarily the case, especially with the genes that this woman has.
J. BERMAN: And the other thing is, the other thing to point out is that nobody balks when Hugh Hefner or Larry King has a baby at their age, but yet, if a woman has the interest in conceiving and carrying a child, everyone freaks out about it.
There are issues all around, but the point is, is that each case needs to be weighed individually. In Aleta's case, she's healthy. She has the financial and family support she needs. And I think that she's going to be a fine mother.
BLITZER: but, just to point out the obvious Jennifer, Hugh Hefner and Larry King did not have to carry a baby to term nine months, or twins in this particular case. There are physical problems inherent in that kind of a situation, especially for an older mom.
J. BERMAN: For any mom. And especially under going a C-section, for which I had to -- and that's no walk in the park. But she's healthy and she's strong and she has good genes. And, again, this is an anomaly, not the rule.
L. BERMAN: You know, Wolf, there was just a study published back in "JAMA" back in 2002 that showed that older women have the same odds.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Stand by, ladies, because, unfortunately, we have to leave it right there.
We're getting an important story from our White House correspondent. The Berman sisters, thank you very much.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: John King is over at the White House.
And you've got some news. What's going on, John?
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, breaking news this evening. The attorney general, John Ashcroft, and the commerce secretary, Don Evans, have submitted their resignations to the president, the White House just now releasing these letters. The attorney general's is dated November 2, Election Day. It is a handwritten note to the president announcing that he will step down, resigning as attorney general, saying that he believes the Justice Department would be better served with new leadership.
And just this dated today, November 9, from Don Evans, the president's close personal friend from childhood, fellow Texan, the commerce secretary and one of the president's most trusted advisers, not only on economic matters, a key figure in his first campaign for the White House, Don Evans also saying that he has the made the difficult decision to leave and resign.
These, two of the major changes. The Bush administration expecting more changes heading into a second term. We learned yesterday that chief of staff Andy Card would stay. He has asked other Cabinet secretaries, if they plan on leaving before the beginning of the second term, to inform the president this week. So these are the first two high-level departures. And they are very significant departures, John Ashcroft announcing his resignation as attorney general.
He has been a close adviser to president, of course, on matters of terrorism and other issues, controversial in some quarters. He will leave the Justice Department. And, again, Don Evans, a man who many thought might stay on in a different job in the second Bush term, announcing he plans to resign at the Department of Commerce as well -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. The first of probably some several significant changes unfolding, as expected. The president himself foreshadowed this only the other day, saying there would be changes. John Ashcroft, Don Evans, the White House now announcing would be moving on. No word yet on replacements. John King, thank you very much.
Coming up, unlikely and unfortunate circumstances made two worlds collide. Although generations separate them, a surprising bond brings these two people together. We'll tell you their emotional story when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Just to recap what John King, our White House correspondent, just reported, two resignations announced by the White House only within the past few moments. The attorney general, John Ashcroft, will be moving on. The commerce secretary, Don Evans, will be moving on as well, the president accepting their resignations. No word on successors. Much more coming up at the top of the hour on "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT."
In this post-9/11 world, when we're told that terrorists may strike at any moment, most of us don't always adequately remember past acts of inhumanity, even when they continue today. Not so for two very ordinary people who were brought together by their separate extraordinary ordeals of brutality.
CNN's Brian Todd has their story of courage and triumph over evil.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In normal circumstances, these two may have been more likely to pass each other on the street, rather than walk together. David Gewirtzman, and Jacqueline Murekatete don't live in normal circumstances.
DAVID GEWIRTZMAN, HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR: We are so close together because of what links us, the horror of our experiences.
TODD: Experiences which drew a Rwanda teenager into the life of a Polish American grandfather.
MUREKATETE: The hope that both of us have also is something that has brought us together.
TODD: After retiring as a Long Island pharmacist, David Gewirtzman had taken to public speaking, relating his years as a Holocaust survivor to high school and college kids, telling them how the Nazis overtook his small town in Poland when he was just 11, how he, his brother and sister and their parents managed to elude their German pursuers as so many around them were killed or shipped away.
Sympathetic farmers hid David under a pig sty, his brother in a haystack for two years. When they were liberated, his brother had forgotten how to speak and walk.
GEWIRTZMAN: When I came out of it, I was quite bitter.
TODD: Decades later, Gewirtzman told a group of students how to overcome that kind of bitterness. He got a letter from one of them.
GEWIRTZMAN: She, too, feels that in spite of what has happened to us, it's our mission to really tell the world about what happened, so that it will not happen to other people.
TODD: Jacqueline Murekatete was just 16 when she wrote to Gewirtzman, 16 and already a survivor of unspeakable slaughter.
MUREKATETE: I didn't understand it. I couldn't comprehend it.
TODD: April 1994, their country in political chaos, militant Rwandan Hutus stepped into the breach and began wholesale killings of rival Tutsis; 9-year-old Jacqueline lived with her Tutsi family in a rural hamlet, but happened to be away at a school in another village when the rampage started. When it was over, she heard the worst.
MUREKATETE: My Hutu neighbors had come to my house and they had taken my parents and my six siblings and aunts and uncles and the Tutsis in our village and they had taken them to a nearby river, where they proceeded to butcher them with machetes.
TODD: With the help of relatives and foreign missionaries, she escaped the tidal wave of hatred that claimed at least 800,000 lives, made it out of Rwanda, and lived with an uncle in the U.S. Knowing no English, Jacqueline inched forward, eventually won a college scholarship and with help of a man from another time and place beat back her fury.
For the past four years, David and Jacqueline have become a valuable public speaking tandem, calling attention to atrocities in places like Sudan, but also explaining how tolerance and perspective can restore the soul, even when a child's innocence has been taken.
TODD (on camera): You both seem to have a serenity about you, a certain peace and deliberation. Is that born of that experience that you had?
GEWIRTZMAN: Yes, and also growing up and becoming an adult and raiding my own family and looking around the world and seeing that, yes, indeed, there is hope in this world.
MUREKATETE: So I was very angry. I was very bitter. And over time, I realized, like David, that being bitter -- every day, I could not go about being angry and bitter every day, because, in the end, that only hurts -- it hurts nobody but myself.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: David, who is Jewish, and Jacqueline, who is Christian, say they will continue to do speaking engagements together through David's group called the Holocaust Memorial and Educational Center in Nassau County, New York.
With all she's been through and everything she is doing now, Jacqueline Murekatete turned 20 years old yesterday, Wolf, 20 and those life experiences.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: And both of them were honored last night at the Kennedy Center here in Washington by the ADL.
TODD: Right. Right.
BLITZER: Thanks very much.
In a moment, new pictures from the front line in Iraq, the battle of Falluja.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We're getting these pictures just into CNN from Falluja.
This was shot from a seven-hour firefight where street-to-street combat took place. We're told the photojournalist taking these pictures there with small-arms fire under way, rocket-propelled grenades coming in from the insurgents. Some Marines were injured when a mortar round landed nearby.
That's it for us. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
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Aired November 9, 2004 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening now: in the battle of Falluja, a rising and deadly toll. Today, reports of 10 United States troops dead, more than 20 wounded.
For the first time since the battle started, President Bush is speaking out.
And we've just heard from Senator John Kerry. He's now back in Washington.
Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Battle of Falluja. They're taking the fight to the insurgents. But have the leaders slipped away?
Arafat's fate.
NABIL SHA'ATH, PALESTINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: His brain, his heart, his lungs still function. And he is alive.
BLITZER: The Palestinians make it clear the end is near as plans are made for a burial.
Survivors.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't understand it. I couldn't comprehend it.
BLITZER: They shared the horror of genocide. Now they share hope.
Middle-aged mom. Twins at age 56. Is there anything wrong with that?
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Tuesday, November 9, 2004.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: It's the second day of what the U.S. military is now calling the New Dawn in Falluja. The operation is aimed at crushing the insurgents in their stronghold. How many insurgents are still there? We'll go live to the front lines in a moment, but we begin with our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the U.S. commander today delivered an upbeat assessment of how the offensive is going, saying that U.S. troops were meeting only some sporadic resistance.
But it raises a question, as you said, of how many insurgents are really left in Falluja.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): Despite predictions of some of the fiercest urban warfare since Vietnam, so far U.S. and Iraqi forces are meeting only sporadic and ineffective resistance as they move deeper into Falluja, according to U.S. commanders.
LT. GEN. THOMAS METZ, MULTINATIONAL CORPS-IRAQ COMMANDER: I think the enemy is fighting hard, but not to the death, and I think that they are continuing to fall back.
MCINTYRE: The U.S. and Iraqi troops are finding fewer booby traps and bombs than expected and so far, casualties have been light for urban combat. In the first 48 hours, 10 U.S. and two Iraqi troops were killed, with about two dozen wounded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay out of the streets. Make sure you guys say on the side of the wall. Go watch the top and bottom. Watch the windows. Watch everywhere you go. Check the walls.
MCINTYRE: The offensive is ahead of schedule, with many key objectives taken as the outer crust of the insurgent defense crumble under the U.S.-Iraqi assault.
Along with the bridges across the Euphrates, the rail station, the hospital, several military buildings and mosques are now secure as the strangle hold tightens on the Jolan district, thought to be an insurgent stronghold.
METZ: I think we're looking at several more days of tough urban fighting. I'm very pleased at the position that we have -- we have the force in right now, and the -- situation that the enemy is facing. He doesn't have an escape route, because we do have the cordon around the city very tight.
MCINTYRE: But Metz concedes the most wanted man in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi probably did escape along with his senior leaders.
METZ: I think it would be -- it's fair to assume that he's left, because we would then continue our intel effort across the country looking for him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: The U.S. and Iraqi troops have found fewer booby traps and one reason may be because of effective use of air power.
Look at this video that the Pentagon has released, showing a 500- pound bomb being dropped from an F-18 along a main road near Falluja. The bomb hits what is believed to be a roadside bomb. It sets off a chain reaction of other bombs in a daisy chain. This air strike took out those bombs, allowing that road to be traversed safely -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. Jamie, thank you very much.
President Bush spoke out for the first time today about the fighting in Falluja. It happened after he and the first lady, Laura Bush, visited with wounded troops over at Walter Reed Army Medical Center here in Washington, D.C.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The request of the Allawi government and alongside of Iraqi troops, coalition force are now moving into Falluja to bring to justice those who are willing to kill the innocent, those who are trying to terrorize the Iraqi people and our coalition, those who want to stop democracy. They're not going to succeed.
And so we wish our troops all the best. Godspeed to them, as well. Thank you all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: More than 1,100 American troops have been killed in the Iraq war, and at least 10 were killed in the Falluja area yesterday and today.
Coming up shortly, I'll speak live about the battle of Falluja with retired U.S. Army General George Joulwan, the former supreme allied commander of NATO. He'll join us here.
But let's turn now to what's becoming a deathwatch over Yasser Arafat. Top Palestinian officials in France to find out more about their leader's fate finally got some firsthand information earlier today. It was precisely what they had feared.
CNN's Fionnuala Sweeney reports from Paris.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FIONNUALA SWEENEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A day of comings and goings by the Palestinian delegation in Paris. A visit to the Percy Military Hospital and consultations with doctors resulted in the first definitive news in days about Yasser Arafat's health.
SHA'ATH: Since last Wednesday, he has been in a coma and that coma has deepened last night. Having said that and having recognized the critical situation in which President Arafat is in today, his brain, his heart and his lungs still function, and he is alive. SWEENEY: Nabil Sha'ath also saying doctors had ruled out diagnoses of cancers, malignancies and poisoning, adding the doctors attributed the Palestinian leader's deteriorating health to his age and recent living conditions.
The Palestinian Authority making concerted efforts to end recent media speculation surrounding Yasser Arafat's health.
A rapprochement of sorts, it seems, has taken place between the Palestinian delegation and Suha Arafat. Under French law as his next of kin, she alone reserved the right as to determine how much information could be publicly released about her husband. That had resulted in much unofficial information that was often contradictory.
In Ramallah, further indications that Yasser Arafat's struggle between life and death is nearing an end: news that the Palestinian Authority president had suffered a brain hemorrhage. Palestinian authorities now forced to think the unthinkable, where to bury him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are -- we believe in God and in case the worst would happen, all arrangements will take place here in Ramallah.
SWEENEY (on camera): And the comings and goings continue. As the Palestinian delegation returns to Ramallah, a senior Islamic cleric is making his way to Paris to be at Yasser Arafat's bedside and to ensure that Islamic tradition is maintained.
Fionnuala Sweeney, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Palestinians are realizing that the end of an era is near, and they are already preparing to mourn the loss of the only leader they've ever known. But amid the planning for a funeral and for a political transition, there are growing questions about Yasser Arafat's finances, vast resources which should belong to the Palestinian people.
CNN's John Vause reports from Jerusalem.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the end, could it have all come down to money? Palestinian sources tell CNN Yasser Arafat never made a will, and for more than a week, his wife, Suha, has been locked in a bitter struggle with Palestinian officials over hundreds of millions of dollars, maybe more.
SHMUEL BAR, FORMER ISRAELI INTEL OFFICER: What Suha wanted to do, apparently, was to get hold of the -- of the money, which was specifically in Arafat's name, because she is his wife, of course, had a claim to part of it. And she knew that the only hold she has, actually, is -- the leverage she has is -- is the body and the burial.
VAUSE: So, how much is Arafat worth? "Forbes" magazine estimates his wealth around $300 million, but two years ago, Israeli intelligence put the figure at $1.3 billion, perhaps more.
BASSAM EID, PALESTINIAN POLITICAL ACTIVIST: Which makes the Palestinians so sick when they are hearing about such a huge amount of money.
VAUSE: For decades, Arafat personally controlled the finances of the PLO. Hundreds of millions of dollars flowed from the Arab rich oil state between 1978 and 1990.
After the Oslo peace accord, billions more were donated from Europe, Japan and the United States, with very little ever reaching ordinary Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.
Hundreds of millions of dollars were collected by the Israelis, sales tax on goods purchased by Palestinians and deposited into Arafat's personal account at this Tel Aviv bank.
BAR: We actually gave Arafat the money on a personal basis.
VAUSE: Israeli officials believe Suha Arafat received an annual allowance of more than $1 million. And French officials are reportedly investigating the transfer of millions more into her Paris bank account.
SILVAN SHALOM, ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTER: She got a huge amount of money every month from Yasser Arafat. There are some rumors about close to $1 million each month.
VAUSE: The Israelis believe Arafat made investments around the world, factories, cell phone companies, hotels and real estate.
BAR: All of his money peoples, financial advisers, were in contact with people all over the world, and they got proposals and they invested.
VAUSE: But the weighted bank accounts and investments are so complex and so difficult to trace, chances are not all of it will ever be found.
MUSTAFA BARGOUTI, PALESTINIAN POLITICAL ACTIVIST: There is a rule of law and I think the rule of law must be applied. And everything that belongs to the Palestinian people must go back to the Palestinian people.
VAUSE (on camera): Arafat never lived a lavish lifestyle. The bulk of the money, according to Israeli intelligence, went to bribes and buying influence. Just a small fraction was spent on guns and bullets. Sometimes loyalty costs a lot more.
John Vause, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Did the poor conditions inside Arafat's headquarters in Ramallah attribute to his condition? His foreign minister, Nabil Sha'ath, makes that allegation. Later this hour, we'll take you inside the complex that's known as the Muqata, where I interviewed Yasser Arafat two years ago. You can see for yourself what it was like.
For the first time since his concession speech in Boston, John Kerry is now speaking out once again, only within the past few minutes. He's got a new message about those who voted for him. We'll hear precisely what he had to say.
Falluja offensive. Could the mission's success or failure ultimately hinge on civilian casualties?
And a real life cops and robbers drama caught on videotape by a police cruiser camera. We'll show you.
Plus this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever the Germans tell you, do the opposite. Then go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: They survived some of the worst horrors of the 21st Century decades apart. Now they're working together with a common goal.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Senator John Kerry is back in Washington. He is still, after all, a United States senator. And only within the past few minutes, he spoke out about the new days ahead for him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Fifty- four plus million Americans voted for health care. They voted for energy independence. They voted for unity in America. They voted for stem cell research. They voted for protecting Social Security.
We need to be unified, and we have a very clear agenda. And I'm going to be fighting for that agenda with all of the energy that I have and all of the passion I brought to the campaign, period. Thank you all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Senator John Kerry speaking here in Washington just a few minutes ago, promising he's going to fight on.
As we mentioned, this is the second day of a major U.S.-led military offensive in Iraq to retake the insurgent stronghold of Falluja. American and Iraqi troops are in the center of the city where the fighting, at times, has been intense and house-to-house. Joining us now with his assessment of the battle as it's unfolding, retired U.S. Army General George Joulwan, the former supreme allied commander of NATO.
General, thanks very much. What's your assessment, based on the press reports, what you're hearing right now? How's it going?
GEN. GEORGE JOULWAN, FORMER SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER OF NATO: First of all, it's been light resistance. I think, as we talked about in the past, we did not achieve strategic surprise. I think the enemy knew we were coming.
So in that regard, there's been light resistance. I think it's been very good success. And I think success is important here, not just for the American troops, but also for the Iraqi troops.
BLITZER: Light resistance, but 10 Americans are -- in two days, 10 U.S. troops are dead, 20 are wounded. That number presumably, unfortunately, is going to go up. That sounds like the U.S. is taking some significant casualties.
JOULWAN: Well, if you're one of the 10 families of one of those troops, yes, it's indeed significant, and we all pass our condolences on to those families.
But in this urban setting, that limited number of casualties, I think, is indeed light, given the size of this town and some of the resistance and IEDs, these improvised explosive devices that we've run into.
BLITZER: Why do you believe this was such a widely advertised military offensive and the element of surprise really was gone?
JOULWAN: I think you have to go back to April when we had the first offensive in there, where we went in and there were civilian casualties and then we pulled out. I think that, indeed, was a mistake.
This time, there was a build up. We had to get the Iraqi interim president's approval. There had to be political approval. All of those steps needed to be taken. And so when you do that, you lose some strategic surprise.
But, Wolf, in the end, I think it's important that we demonstrate that we can eliminate and take control places like Falluja. Unfortunately, there are other places, Ramadi, Samarra and others that will have to be similarly dealt with.
BLITZER: And these insurgents, the leaders, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and others who may have escaped, they're only going to set up shop someplace else.
JOULWAN: They will. But I think part of this, in my opinion, is that you have to build some confidence here, not just in American troops, but more importantly in the Iraqi police and military. They've got to have some confidence. And there were -- there were reports of desertions and units that didn't totally deploy, but step-by-step, I think you can build that confidence. And that is going to be extremely important in the long run here for the future of Iraq.
BLITZER: What are you hearing about the ability, the willingness of the Iraqi soldiers to fight?
JOULWAN: Mixed. It is mixed. And I think we should expect that. After all, this has been just a few months that Petraeus has been dealing with this. And so I think we ought not to set the bar too high and we ought not to put them in situations where there's a high probability of failure.
That's why I think the mix of U.S. and Iraqi forces, coalition forces is extremely important. And I think to build that confidence, Falluja is the first step. There are going to be others. And that's going to be the key to the outcome in Iraq.
BLITZER: General George Joulwan, as usual, thank you very much.
JOULWAN: Thank you.
BLITZER: We always learn something from you.
JOULWAN: Thanks.
BLITZER: We've got a developing story, switching gears dramatically, out in California, Redwood City, California, in the Scott Peterson murder trial. Our David Mattingly is joining us now live with details.
What has happened, David?
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, just coming out of the courtroom just a few moments ago. The judge in the case has ordered that juror No. 7 be removed from the jury and then replaced by an alternate juror.
This means that the deliberations now will have to start all over again. This entire past week of deliberations going back to square one and beginning over again.
The court did not issue any reason why that juror No. 7 was kicked off the jury, but earlier today, sources close to the court told CNN that there were problems with a juror possibly doing some independent research. This is strictly forbidden, because the jurors are supposed to consider only the information that they hear in that courtroom.
Was that juror No. 7? We don't know exactly yet, because the court, the judge did not say so. But juror No. 7 has been replaced on the Scott Peterson jury, replaced by an alternate and the deliberations of this past week are out the window. The jury is starting over at square one with new deliberations -- Wolf. BLITZER: I understand, David, there are 12 jurors and three alternates. So there are two other alternates still in play in case they have to make another replacement. Is that right?
MATTINGLY: Prior to this replacement, there were actually five alternate jurors to pick from. We are now down to four. There was one juror was replaced on this jury months ago. But this -- we are now down to four jurors on the alternate list, so plenty of alternates still available in case any other problems come up in the future, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. David Mattingly, thanks very much for that. We're standing by to talk to our legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, get some more analysis on what this may mean for the fate of this jury deliberation. We'll get some more on that. That's coming up.
There are other stories we're following, including some bullets that have been flying and tires that have been screeching.
A very dangerous confrontation between police and suspected bank robbers. We'll show you how it ended.
Also, a hated symbol of the Cold War. Fifteen years after the fall of the Berlin Wall, what's changed?
And a new mother at age 56. Science, nature and the question: how old is too old? We'll ask the Berman sisters. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
BLITZER: One of the jurors in the Scott Peterson trial has been removed. Jeff Toobin joins us live with a little analysis.
Jeff, is this good for the prosecution, good for the defense?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good for the prosecution. This is a huge break. Judging from what the judge said yesterday, this case was really teetering on the brink of a mistrial, which certainly would have been a loss for the prosecution.
Now the jury is reconstituted with a problem juror off the jury. That can only be good for the prosecution.
BLITZER: What if this juror, though, was someone who was inclined to go along with the prosecution and convict?
TOOBIN: We can't know that at this point. Knowing how this caseworks, I suspect that this juror will be doing interviews at some point.
But the point is, a mistrial, a hung jury would certainly be a loss for the prosecution. And this introduction of a new juror, this exclusion of a juror who was a problem in some way, that's a good thing for the prosecution. BLITZER: All right. Jeff Toobin with a little analysis for us.
One of the jurors has been removed. The jury will now start from scratch, continue its deliberations with a new juror, one of the alternates who has been moved in. There are still two or three other alternates available in case this should happen again.
Moving on again now, it looks like something out of a movie, but this was all too real for police in suburban Dallas, who found themselves caught up in a shoot out and a chase with three bank robbery suspects, all of it recorded by a camera on the cruiser's dashboard.
CNN's Ed Lavandera has the story and the amazing video from Dallas.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got automatic fire. Automatic.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's about 10:30 in the morning last Thursday. Police say the three men inside the red Suburban had just robbed a bank in the north Dallas suburb of Richardson.
As the men tried to get away, they came across an off-duty police officer and opened fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My squad was shot up. I repeat, my squad was shot up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've got a lot of glass damage only.
LAVANDERA: In a matter of seconds, a team of Richardson police get dangerously close.
The gunmen, using AK-47 style weapons, fire more than 100 rounds. The officer in this case escapes unharmed, even though one of the bullets pierced the headrest of the driver's seat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've got to be careful, man. That is automatic weapon fire.
LAVANDERA: The gunmen escape the first exchange. The chase continues, but the men look for another escape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looks like they abandoned the vehicle and they hopped into another vehicle.
LAVANDERA: Now the bandits are in a white pickup truck, but that ride doesn't last long.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got a 44. They're bailing.
LAVANDERA: As the three men climb out of the pickup, one turns around and continues firing, even as another car coasts through the intersection.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're shooting up my squad. More shots fired. More shots fired!
LAVANDERA: The three men run away on foot. Police say they stole another car and were able to get away. The chase lasted less than 15 minutes, and no one was seriously hurt.
Ed Lavandera, CNN, Dallas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: One of the suspects turned himself in over the weekend. Police are still looking for two others. They say the three are members of a gang known as the Takeover Bandits, and they're accused of robbing over 60 area banks over the last four years.
Caught in the cross fire, as U.S. and Iraqi forces battle a resisting insurgency, what will the civilian cost be of this offensive?
Inside Yasser Arafat's compound. Did the Palestinian leader's living conditions contribute to his ailing health? I'll take you inside the Muqata.
And celebrating an end of an era. What's changed in the 15 years since the fall of the Berlin Wall? We'll take a closer look later.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Civilians caught in the crossfire, it happens in every war. And as fighting rages in the insurgent stronghold of Falluja, that Iraqi city isn't likely to be any exception.
For more on the ramifications of civilian casualties in Falluja, let's go live to CNN's Zain Verjee. She's joining us from the CNN Center -- Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the Pentagon says enemy casualties in Falluja are significantly higher than expected, while friendly casualties are light.
In an urban warfare environment, enemies and friends are really hard to distinguish and civilians could be killed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE (voice-over): Any success in Falluja could turn into failure if a large number of civilians are killed in crossfire between U.S.-led forces and insurgents. As one Marine officer soldier said, they'll win if it's bloody. We'll win if we minimize civilian casualties.
TONY PERRY, "THE LOS ANGELES TIMES": Given the volatility of the area, an Iraq civilian population could turn against both their won fledging government and the U.S. if there are large-scale civilian casualties.
VERJEE: Asked about the danger of civilian casualties in Falluja, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had this to say.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: There aren't going to be large numbers of civilians killed, certainly not by U.S. forces.
VERJEE: Rumsfeld added, U.S. forces fighting in Falluja are disciplined in using precision methods to target insurgents, but even extraordinary care may be unlikely to eliminate risk.
STEPHEN GREY, "SUNDAY TIMES": The insurgents like to fight among women and children.
VERJEE: It's also hard to know who is an insurgent and who isn't.
GREY: They're dressed in the same way as civilians. They will be firing from windows in which there may be civilians in the same houses.
VERJEE: Tribal ties are strong in Falluja. And insurgents could hide and fight among their kin.
Reports for high civilian casualties during an earlier assault on Falluja in April inflamed Iraqi anger and the U.S. eventually pulled out. The U.S. military says half to as much as three-quarters of Falluja's 300,000 residents have fled. That would leave anywhere from 75,000 to 150,000 civilians in the city taking cover in the very same buildings that could be caught in the crossfire.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: Wolf, there's also a danger high civilian casualties in Falluja could push the Iraqi Sunnis further from the political process, rather than bring them into the fold ahead of elections in January -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Zain Verjee reporting for us -- thank you, Zain, very much.
Yasser Arafat had been contained to his Ramallah headquarters by sir for almost three years. And at least one of his top advisers is now speculating that the conditions inside there, which I have seen firsthand, may have contributed to Arafat's current health crisis.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Yasser Arafat's Ramallah headquarters, the Muqata in Arabic, it has been his home since Israeli troops stormed the sprawling complex in March 2002.
That May, I traveled to Ramallah to interview Arafat and found that, although it's only 15 minutes from Jerusalem under normal circumstances, in reality, the Muqata is a world away. Large areas of complex lie in ruins, bulldozed by Israeli forces. Armed men mill around amid a fleet of broken-down cars and trucks. Inside, we were led to Arafat's personal quarters, the atmosphere, stuffy and smoky with windows kept closed for security.
Even at the time, more than two years ago, there were signs of health problems, a noticeable tremor. Are the miserable conditions at the Muqata what made Arafat ill? His foreign minister says doctors think so.
SHA'ATH: The doctors, by and large, favor the explanation that his age, the last -- 75 years old, difficult life -- the last three and a half years incarcerated in a very small office, and which had very little oxygen and very bad sanitary situation, and siege by the Israeli army have contributed to a variety of digestive tract ailments.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Arafat remains in critical condition in a deep coma, according to the foreign minister, Nabil Sha'ath.
Amid fighting in Iraq and uncertainty over the Palestinian leadership, there's an anniversary ceremony in Germany that has been under way today. The Berlin Wall fell 15 years ago, marking, many say, at least the symbolic end of the Cold War and fueling great hopes for a new era of world peace. Today, some people are asking this question. What went wrong?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): It's the enduring symbol of the fall of communism. On November 9, 1989, 15 years ago today, jubilant Germans breached the ugly concrete wall that separated East and West Berlin. Soon, the wall began to disappear piece by piece, visible evidence that the Cold War was over.
WILLIAM COHEN, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: When the Berlin Wall collapsed, my hope was that we would see the spread of democracy throughout those countries that had been so oppressed under the heel and boot of tyranny and totalitarianism. And for the most part, that hope has been realized.
BLITZER: But the collapse of communism in Europe also had another effect. It produced a power vacuum, upsetting a 44-year balance of power that had kept the world reasonably stable.
COL. THOMAS HAMMES, U.S. MARINES CORPS: Many of the regimes were propped up either by the United States or by the USSR in an effort in our competition. When that competition went away and we no longer propped up the regime, he was taken out. And now they have to have their fight about who is going to rule.
BLITZER: Ethnic conflicts turned into wars. And while the West was accustomed to dealing with communists, dealing with terrorists was a different matter.
HAMMES: The problem there is, they don't have a return address. If you know where it came from, they know that they would get nuked in return. And that creates a certain deterrent.
BLITZER: The world was a different place before the Berlin Wall came down. Was it a safer place or were we just facing a different kind of danger?
COHEN: Any time you have two superpowers operating on almost a hair-trigger basis to unleash 20,000 or 30,000 nuclear weapons, one can't say that we were safe in any absolute sense.
HAMMES: There was less violence, less day-to-day death, but there's a lot less chance of a really massive kill-off now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: The German chancellor, Gerhard Schroeder, today called the fall of the Berlin Wall a triumph of freedom and democracy. Some Germans, though, say continued economic problems in the former East Germany have dimmed the euphoria they felt 15 years ago.
It's a boy, well, and a girl. A New York woman is a mother of twins at the age of 56. We'll update you on the health of all three. But is it all a good thing for women to be waiting until midlife to start having children? I'll ask the Berman sisters. They're standing by to weigh in.
And, later:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACQUELINE MUREKATETE, RWANDAN GENOCIDE SURVIVOR: Every day, I learned what had happened to my uncles, to my aunts, to friends. Some of them had been burned alive in their homes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: An extraordinary tale of two survivors' incredible stories of strength and brutality and support in numbers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: In a follow-up to a story we told you about yesterday, just three days before she turns 57, a New York woman is now a new mother. Aleta St. James gave birth today to twins, a girl and a boy.
An update now from CNN's Deborah Feyerick, who is joining us live in New York -- Deborah
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, most women nearing retirement want jewelry, a fancy car, a special trip when it comes to their birthday. Aleta St. James wanted something different and today she got it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK (voice-over): When people asked 56-year-old Aleta St. James why she decided to have babies so late in life, her reason is simple.
ALETA ST. JAMES, MOTHER: "Why not?" is my answer.
FEYERICK: In fact, her Italian-born grandmother, who had 13 kids, set the example.
ST. JAMES: My grandmother had my mother at 53. So I didn't have an idea that that was a problem.
FEYERICK: St. James is a motivational speaker who coaches people how to be happy. With the birth of twins Francesca and brother Gian, she has made her parents the happiest people in New York City.
CHESTER SLIWA, FATHER OF ST. JAMES: In our 80s, we got grandkids. So it will give us impetus and motive to live longer. So I expect to live to 105 now.
FEYERICK: St. James became pregnant through in-vitro fertilization. An egg was donated by a younger women, fertilized outside the womb, then implanted into the new mom's uterus. Her younger brother, Guardian Angel Curtis Sliwa, recently became a father himself.
CURTIS SLIWA, FOUNDER, GUARDIAN ANGELS: To deliver twins right before you're 57, to me, is just absolutely mind-boggling, a real miracle.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK: Natural conception ends when the body stops producing eggs. But a woman who is healthy with the right injections of hormones can create an environment in the uterus to carry an embryo, or, in this case, two, to term. And, remember, it's rare.
A fertility expert we spoke to said, it's not as if the phone has been ringing off the hook for women in their 60s wanting to have a baby -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Deborah Feyerick, thank you very much.
So are we likely to see more of these older moms as America's population ages? And what about the age difference? Is it a good thing for the parents and the children?
With us now, the Berman sisters, Laura and Jennifer, the hosts of "Berman & Berman" on the Discovery Health Channel. Laura is a psychologist and sex therapist. She is joining us from Chicago. Jennifer is a urologist. She is joining us from Los Angeles.
Jennifer, I'll start with you.
As far as medically, the health of the mother and the children, what do you make of this?
JENNIFER BERMAN, CO-HOST, "BERMAN & BERMAN": Well, one thing that I make with Aleta is she definitely has good genes, by the virtue of the fact that her mother had 13 children and by the virtue of the fact that she was able to carry both these babies to term.
One of my concerns is, though, is that the message that we're giving to women, that it's OK to wait that long, because our fertility actually declines at the age of 27. So I do have concerns about the message that we're giving to younger women that it's OK to wait, that it's safe to wait, because it's certainly not the case for all women.
BLITZER: Well, why isn't it safe to wait this long?
J. BERMAN: Well, it's not safe to wait this long, A, because it's very difficult, if not impossible, to conceive. B, the incidents of birth defects, miscarriage, risks to the babies and risks to the mother are higher when you're older.
And, in other cases, aside from Aleta's, there's other health conditions and health risks that older people suffer from, diabetes, high blood pressure, stroke, heart attacks. So you're putting a lot of stress on your body, you know, at that age.
BLITZER: Laura, what about psychologically? What do you make of the difference, the age difference, 56, almost 57 years old now that the twins are just born?
LAURA BERMAN, CO-HOST, "BERMAN & BERMAN": Well, I think Jennifer is right, that this sort of thing is the exception, rather than the rule. And it's not something that I think we're necessarily going to see women everywhere running out and doing.
The nice thing is that there are options available for women who, for whatever reason, want to postpone their reproductive years. Their chances aren't as great as when they were in their 20s, but there is -- medical technology is just getting more and more advanced. The down side, as you mentioned, is that, when you have a child older, it's exhausting to have a young child. It takes a lot of -- it puts a lot of stress on your body while you're pregnant and also while the child is young.
So, as women age and couples age, not only the mothers, but the fathers as well, they may not have the energy stores they need to keep up with young babies and toddlers, although, this generation of 50- plus women are the baby boomer women who are more healthy and vital than any generation before them. So, who is to say that they can't do the job?
BLITZER: Well, there are some people that are saying, because I'm getting tons of e-mail on this, who are saying it's simply unfair to the children, to these little kids, that they're going to have such old parents at a time when they really need their parents to be active participants in their lives.
(CROSSTALK)
J. BERMAN: Sorry.
I'll interject there, is that, just because you're old doesn't mean that you can't be a good parent. And, in a lot of ways, this couple or this woman might be more mature, financially secure, more capable of carrying a toddler around than somebody else. So just because you're old doesn't mean you're not capable.
L. BERMAN: And it's based on the perception that she's going to live to what was the average age 10, 15 years ago. And the average age, the average extension of life is much greater now. People are living longer than ever before. Projections for the length of life for my generation is in the hundreds.
So I think that it's something that we are assuming that a woman who is 56 may only have 10 or 15 years with her children, when that is not necessarily the case, especially with the genes that this woman has.
J. BERMAN: And the other thing is, the other thing to point out is that nobody balks when Hugh Hefner or Larry King has a baby at their age, but yet, if a woman has the interest in conceiving and carrying a child, everyone freaks out about it.
There are issues all around, but the point is, is that each case needs to be weighed individually. In Aleta's case, she's healthy. She has the financial and family support she needs. And I think that she's going to be a fine mother.
BLITZER: but, just to point out the obvious Jennifer, Hugh Hefner and Larry King did not have to carry a baby to term nine months, or twins in this particular case. There are physical problems inherent in that kind of a situation, especially for an older mom.
J. BERMAN: For any mom. And especially under going a C-section, for which I had to -- and that's no walk in the park. But she's healthy and she's strong and she has good genes. And, again, this is an anomaly, not the rule.
L. BERMAN: You know, Wolf, there was just a study published back in "JAMA" back in 2002 that showed that older women have the same odds.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Stand by, ladies, because, unfortunately, we have to leave it right there.
We're getting an important story from our White House correspondent. The Berman sisters, thank you very much.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: John King is over at the White House.
And you've got some news. What's going on, John?
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, breaking news this evening. The attorney general, John Ashcroft, and the commerce secretary, Don Evans, have submitted their resignations to the president, the White House just now releasing these letters. The attorney general's is dated November 2, Election Day. It is a handwritten note to the president announcing that he will step down, resigning as attorney general, saying that he believes the Justice Department would be better served with new leadership.
And just this dated today, November 9, from Don Evans, the president's close personal friend from childhood, fellow Texan, the commerce secretary and one of the president's most trusted advisers, not only on economic matters, a key figure in his first campaign for the White House, Don Evans also saying that he has the made the difficult decision to leave and resign.
These, two of the major changes. The Bush administration expecting more changes heading into a second term. We learned yesterday that chief of staff Andy Card would stay. He has asked other Cabinet secretaries, if they plan on leaving before the beginning of the second term, to inform the president this week. So these are the first two high-level departures. And they are very significant departures, John Ashcroft announcing his resignation as attorney general.
He has been a close adviser to president, of course, on matters of terrorism and other issues, controversial in some quarters. He will leave the Justice Department. And, again, Don Evans, a man who many thought might stay on in a different job in the second Bush term, announcing he plans to resign at the Department of Commerce as well -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. The first of probably some several significant changes unfolding, as expected. The president himself foreshadowed this only the other day, saying there would be changes. John Ashcroft, Don Evans, the White House now announcing would be moving on. No word yet on replacements. John King, thank you very much.
Coming up, unlikely and unfortunate circumstances made two worlds collide. Although generations separate them, a surprising bond brings these two people together. We'll tell you their emotional story when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Just to recap what John King, our White House correspondent, just reported, two resignations announced by the White House only within the past few moments. The attorney general, John Ashcroft, will be moving on. The commerce secretary, Don Evans, will be moving on as well, the president accepting their resignations. No word on successors. Much more coming up at the top of the hour on "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT."
In this post-9/11 world, when we're told that terrorists may strike at any moment, most of us don't always adequately remember past acts of inhumanity, even when they continue today. Not so for two very ordinary people who were brought together by their separate extraordinary ordeals of brutality.
CNN's Brian Todd has their story of courage and triumph over evil.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In normal circumstances, these two may have been more likely to pass each other on the street, rather than walk together. David Gewirtzman, and Jacqueline Murekatete don't live in normal circumstances.
DAVID GEWIRTZMAN, HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR: We are so close together because of what links us, the horror of our experiences.
TODD: Experiences which drew a Rwanda teenager into the life of a Polish American grandfather.
MUREKATETE: The hope that both of us have also is something that has brought us together.
TODD: After retiring as a Long Island pharmacist, David Gewirtzman had taken to public speaking, relating his years as a Holocaust survivor to high school and college kids, telling them how the Nazis overtook his small town in Poland when he was just 11, how he, his brother and sister and their parents managed to elude their German pursuers as so many around them were killed or shipped away.
Sympathetic farmers hid David under a pig sty, his brother in a haystack for two years. When they were liberated, his brother had forgotten how to speak and walk.
GEWIRTZMAN: When I came out of it, I was quite bitter.
TODD: Decades later, Gewirtzman told a group of students how to overcome that kind of bitterness. He got a letter from one of them.
GEWIRTZMAN: She, too, feels that in spite of what has happened to us, it's our mission to really tell the world about what happened, so that it will not happen to other people.
TODD: Jacqueline Murekatete was just 16 when she wrote to Gewirtzman, 16 and already a survivor of unspeakable slaughter.
MUREKATETE: I didn't understand it. I couldn't comprehend it.
TODD: April 1994, their country in political chaos, militant Rwandan Hutus stepped into the breach and began wholesale killings of rival Tutsis; 9-year-old Jacqueline lived with her Tutsi family in a rural hamlet, but happened to be away at a school in another village when the rampage started. When it was over, she heard the worst.
MUREKATETE: My Hutu neighbors had come to my house and they had taken my parents and my six siblings and aunts and uncles and the Tutsis in our village and they had taken them to a nearby river, where they proceeded to butcher them with machetes.
TODD: With the help of relatives and foreign missionaries, she escaped the tidal wave of hatred that claimed at least 800,000 lives, made it out of Rwanda, and lived with an uncle in the U.S. Knowing no English, Jacqueline inched forward, eventually won a college scholarship and with help of a man from another time and place beat back her fury.
For the past four years, David and Jacqueline have become a valuable public speaking tandem, calling attention to atrocities in places like Sudan, but also explaining how tolerance and perspective can restore the soul, even when a child's innocence has been taken.
TODD (on camera): You both seem to have a serenity about you, a certain peace and deliberation. Is that born of that experience that you had?
GEWIRTZMAN: Yes, and also growing up and becoming an adult and raiding my own family and looking around the world and seeing that, yes, indeed, there is hope in this world.
MUREKATETE: So I was very angry. I was very bitter. And over time, I realized, like David, that being bitter -- every day, I could not go about being angry and bitter every day, because, in the end, that only hurts -- it hurts nobody but myself.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: David, who is Jewish, and Jacqueline, who is Christian, say they will continue to do speaking engagements together through David's group called the Holocaust Memorial and Educational Center in Nassau County, New York.
With all she's been through and everything she is doing now, Jacqueline Murekatete turned 20 years old yesterday, Wolf, 20 and those life experiences.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: And both of them were honored last night at the Kennedy Center here in Washington by the ADL.
TODD: Right. Right.
BLITZER: Thanks very much.
In a moment, new pictures from the front line in Iraq, the battle of Falluja.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We're getting these pictures just into CNN from Falluja.
This was shot from a seven-hour firefight where street-to-street combat took place. We're told the photojournalist taking these pictures there with small-arms fire under way, rocket-propelled grenades coming in from the insurgents. Some Marines were injured when a mortar round landed nearby.
That's it for us. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
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