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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Interview with Steve Harvey; A look at Conspiracy Theories Surrounding 9/11
Aired November 10, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening from Los Angeles. I'm Anderson Cooper.
Houses of torture and slaughter discovered in Falluja.
360 starts now.
Fighting in Falluja. Coalition troops make a shocking discovery, hostage slaughterhouses. The sickening evidence of beheadings left behind by kidnappers.
President Bush names his next attorney general. Ashcroft is out, Alberto Gonzales is in. But will controversy about Gonzales's role in the Abu Ghraib prison scandal derail his appointment?
Another day, another twist in the Scott Peterson trial, another juror dismissed, this time the foreman. Is this case headed for a mistrial?
New ads question what really happened on 9/11. Why did Building 7 collapse? Tonight, the real facts behind the ads, and the conspiracy theory.
Our special series, Starved for Perfection. Tonight, the male body image crisis. How to spot if he's too obsessed with the way he looks.
And comedian Steve Harvey joins us live to talk politics and Peterson, and why he's searching for the craziest person in America.
ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360.
COOPER: And good evening again from Los Angeles.
American and Iraqi forces seem to be winning the battle for the streets and houses and rooftops of Falluja.
Dramatic images today, whether they are winning more than that. The larger battle against Iraq's insurgents themselves or simply driving those insurgents and terrorists elsewhere remains to be seen. Either way, yard by yard the assault goes on. It is difficult, extraordinarily dangerous for the Marines and for the reporters covering them.
This report by ITN's Paul Davis is among the best we have seen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going in. We're taking the city, it's down.
PAUL DAVIS, ITV NEWS (voice-over): They're taking the city. No idle boast, two-thirds of Falluja is tonight in American hands. But it's been achieved the hard way. Close combat is rarely witnessed in modern-day conflict.
These remarkable images, sent back over shaky videophones, tell a story just about as far away from the clinical long-range warfare the Americans would prefer to wage as it's possible to do.
Here, every house in every street has to be taken, and the Marines come under fire from militants they can't see. When an enemy gun position is spotted in one of the many shell-scarred buildings, tanks are brought up.
This firefight in the Jolan district lasted more than seven hours, but at the end of it another block had been gained.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to keep pushing up.
DAVIES: "I want to keep pushing up," the officer says, but the swift progress of this operation has been at a cost. Even before today's street battles, 10 American soldiers have been killed, more than 40 Marines and their Iraqi allies injured, the wounded evacuated under fire as the advance continued.
There are no accurate figures on the number of militants dead or civilian casualties.
Late today, the Marines were still meeting fierce resistance from insurgents who appeared to be firing from Falluja's historic mosques.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're taking fire from the mosques (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
DAVIES (on camera): The ones we can see, yes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
DAVIES (voice-over): The assault is entering a new, highly sensitive stage, but as it does so, Iraqi forces fighting alongside the Marines say in a newly captured building they found what they call a slaughterhouse used for holding hostages. In the face of this firepower, the hostage takers have fled.
Paul Davis, ITV News.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And at this hour, at this moment, the fighting continues.
For Iraq's prime minister, the fighting has become very personal indeed. Here's a 360 news note. A group calling itself Ansar al- Jihad says it has kidnapped three members of Ayad Allawi's family. The group is threatening to behead them unless attacks on Falluja are halted within 48 hours. An elderly cousin of the prime minister's, the cousin's wife, and their daughter-in-law were snatched at gunpoint from their home in Baghdad yesterday.
Well, here on U.S. soil, a new choice for attorney general. Now, just yesterday we learned that Attorney General John Ashcroft is stepping down. Today the president named Alberto Gonzales, the White House counsel, to fill his post.
Senior White House correspondent John King covers all the angles.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President didn't look long or far in choosing Alberto Gonzales as his nominee to be the new attorney general.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He always gives me his frank opinion. He is a calm and steady voice in times of crisis.
KING: White House counsel the past four years, before that, a Texas Supreme Court justice, now in line to be the nation's first Hispanic attorney general.
ALBERTO GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE: I know well that some government positions require a special level of trust and integrity.
KING: Gonzales is as soft-spoken as John Ashcroft is controversial. But behind his easygoing style is a fierce loyalty to Mr. Bush and an approach to terrorism and government secrecy issues that Democrats and liberal groups promise will be an issue in confirmation hearings.
RALPH WEAS, PRESIDENT, PEOPLE FOR THE AMERICAN WAY: Alberto Gonzales and John Ashcroft have consistently decided that it was OK to abuse civil liberties, and to go way to the right in terms of addressing the terrorism issue...
KING: Gonzales, for example, authored legal memos allowing the administration to deny Geneva Convention protections to some detainees in the war on terror, and backs expanded surveillance and other controversial powers in the post-9/11 PATRIOT Act.
BUSH: His sharp intellect and sound judgment have helped shape our policies in the war on terror.
KING: Democrats promise tough questions, but most predict speedy confirmation for Gonzales. For his part, Mr. Bush did nothing to tamp down speculation on more cabinet turnover, declining to answer directly when asked at an Oval Office event whether Secretary of State Powell is staying on for the new term.
BUSH: I'm proud of my secretary of state. He's done a heck of a good job.
KING: Officials say the president was deliberately vague because Secretary Powell will be staying, but likely only for a short period of time. Also unresolved, or at least not resolved yet in a way the White House is willing to talk about publicly, is whether national security adviser Rice will be staying put in her job, moving on to a new cabinet post, or heading home soon to California, Anderson.
COOPER: We shall be watching. John King, thanks for that.
Later this hour, I'm going to discuss the cabinet shakeup with former presidential adviser David Gergen, who himself served in four administrations.
Now, if you're keeping track of the threat level, here's a quick news note of you. Coincidentally or not, eight days after the election, the Department of Homeland Security today lowered to yellow the threat level in the financial districts of New York, Newark, New Jersey, and Washington, D.C. You may remember those places were put on orange alert August 1, reportedly as a result of something found on some computer disks in Pakistan.
But now officials say, quote, "There was no way to discern if any operational plans were in place to attack." So back to yellow as a result of better security at the targets and not, the department says, politics.
If you thought the removal of one juror yesterday in the Scott Peterson trial would end the problems with the jury, well, you were wrong. Today the judge tossed another juror off the panel. This was no ordinary juror. This was the foreman. Now, instead of the fate of Peterson, it's the fate of his jury that people are wondering about. The court, it's a midweek crisis that shows no signs of letting up.
CNN's David Mattingly has the latest.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A new day, a new juror, a new foreman. It is the latest surprise from the tumultuous jury deliberations in the Scott Peterson trial. The foreman, identified as Gregory Jackson, was dismissed by the judge. He was both a lawyer and a doctor, who filled stacks of notebooks during the trial.
The new foreman is a young firefighter who took almost no notes and occasionally seemed bored during testimony.
But what this could mean for a jury clearly struggling with the question of Peterson's guilt or innocence is unknown. The judge gave no reason for the change. ROBERT TALBOT, LAW PROFESSOR: There's some kind of misconduct, something that he did that violated the judge's instructions, and maybe it came out during the deliberations, or maybe he decided to bring it out himself.
MATTINGLY: It was the third day in a row the jury had been called back into court and the second straight dismissal of a juror since deliberations began. The defense objected to the change, possibly laying the groundwork for an appeal, but conventional wisdom says problems in the jury room usually mean problems for the prosecution.
JIM HAMMER, LEGAL ANALYST: Excitement is bad for the prosecution. They want two or three days of quiet deliberation and one note which says, We have a verdict. Anything short of that is bad news.
MATTINGLY: Reaction in the court was subtle. Defense attorney Mark Geragos smiled and put his arm around Scott Peterson. One juror was seen mouthing the words "Oh, man."
MATTINGLY: Both sides are back in closed-door meetings at this hour with the judge, and joining them is the chief investigator for the county. It's a very strange occurrence, and we are not sure what to make of it at this hour.
I can tell you there's been a great deal of discussion outside the courthouse about a conspicuously parked boat in a parking lot about a block away from the courthouse. It belongs to the defense. It's not Scott Peterson's boat. It's a boat the defense used to try and demonstrate how difficult it is to throw a body overboard. They produced a video with it. That video was not allowed into evidence.
But the boat is out, strangely, for no reason, apparently, out in public view, complete with a cement anchor and a stuffed body inside, inside that boat.
So again, does this have anything to do with that closed-door meeting? We have no idea, but again, a great source of speculation and discussion outside the courthouse today, Anderson.
COOPER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), David, let me just make it (UNINTELLIGIBLE) sure I understand this, because I'm not sure I do. The defense has parked a replica boat with a stuffed body in it about a block from the courthouse?
MATTINGLY: That's correct. It's a boat that belongs to the defense, and it's one that they purchased and used to demonstrate the difficulty of throwing a body overboard into San Francisco Bay. They always contended that if Scott Peterson attempted to do this to his wife Laci's body as the prosecution claimed, then the boat would have capsized. They produced a video with their findings. That video, however, was never allowed to be submitted into court.
Why this boat is now parked in full public view is anyone's guess, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Dave Mattingly, thanks for that for, from Redwood City.
Covering all the angles of the Peterson shakeup, from Redwood City is Gloria Allred, the attorney for Amber Frey, and from Miami, defense attorney Jayne Weintraub. Thanks for joining us again.
Gloria, I got to start off with you. What about this boat parked two, a block from the courthouse?
GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY FOR AMBER FREY: I'm glad you asked, Anderson, because I went over there to see this boat today. And really, I was just disgusted, because in this boat is a dummy dressed in blue. And with each limb is attached to an anchor. Now, obviously, this is supposed to be the deceased Laci Peterson, may she rest in peace. And I think it's just disgusting.
I think Mark Geragos owes an apology to the family of Laci Peterson...
COOPER: Well, what's the purpose of this, do you think?
ALLRED: ... for doing this, because I'm sure they wouldn't want this, her portrayed this way. I don't know what the purpose is. Is he trying to taint the jury pool to get a message to them? Yes, they are sequestered. But they can make calls outside to people outside of the hotel.
If a person on the call were to tell them about this, I don't know what they would think. Would they hear that he has made a defense video that the judge excluded it from evidence? Maybe they wouldn't know why it was excluded. We don't know. But probably because it was this so-called experiment was not done in the same or similar circumstances to what is being alleged by the prosecution in this case.
COOPER: Let me, let me...
ALLRED: So if this was a publicity stunt, it's backfired. My God, there, even the pliers are in this boat, but, of course, no hair the pliers.
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: Jayne, Jayne...
WEINTRAUB: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: ... let me give her, you know, what do you make of this, Jayne?
WEINTRAUB: What I think, I'm, I'm sure, first of all, let's make, you know, one thing very clear. I think that the fair administration of justice is screaming for a mistrial here. We don't know what took place to warrant the removal of the foreperson of the juror, of the jury today. But we do know several things. We know that yesterday, a juror was removed for misconduct and had information independently from where she should have heard it, and it probably was contaminated within that jury room, as I thought yesterday.
I'm sure the foreperson was removed because either he couldn't disregard it, as the court keeps instructing this jury, Disregard everything, ladies and gentlemen, we are going to start again for the third time.
You know, Anderson, people are human. And the jurors are trying to do their best. But for the third time, they're told, Just disregard everything and start over. And it's really unfair. You can't unring that bell.
As far as the boat, knowing Mark Geragos, knowing that he's never violated the court's order or the gag order or done anything inappropriate before, I am shocked that Gloria is so disgusted. I'm sure that Mark brought the boat there with the court's knowledge that it's parked a block away. I am also confident that they're waiting for a note from the jury again to ask about the boat.
WEINTRAUB: Now, remember the last time the boat came up was a few days ago, and the jurors went on the boat and actually tried to see if they would tip the boat...
COOPER: OK, (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
WEINTRAUB: ... which is exactly what Mark Geragos...
WEINTRAUB: ... was arguing.
ALLRED: ... they didn't go...
COOPER: Gloria, go ahead.
ALLRED: ... they didn't do on the, they didn't go on this boat. And I'm sure that this boat is not there with the court's permission. That would be ridiculous. And I, you know what? It's interesting, what's not on this boat, Anderson. Not on the boat is the fishing gear, the wrong fishing gear that Scott Peterson had, because, of course, it, he didn't have the right fishing gear to go fishing (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
WEINTRAUB: Gloria, why don't, why talk about a boat...
ALLRED: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
WEINTRAUB: ... that's not in front of the jury? Why don't you talk about the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that obviously we're trying to coerce this jury now to reach a verdict that can only say guilty, instead of listening...
COOPER: Gloria, do you think, Gloria, do you think...
COOPER: ... a mistrial is likely?
COOPER: Gloria, do you think a mistrial is likely?
ALLRED: I don't -- I'm sure that the judge will do everything possible to avoid a mistrial in this case. This jury has more than five months invested in this case, the families have a big investment in the outcome of this case.
ALLRED: He will do everything...
ALLRED: ... possible to protect this jury.
COOPER: We're going to have to leave it there.
WEINTRAUB: Nobody wants to see a mistrial. But for a death penalty case, you need to protect the defendant's rights, and that's...
COOPER: Jayne Weintraub...
WEINTRAUB: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for a mistrial.
COOPER: ... thanks for joining us...
WEINTRAUB: And the (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
COOPER: ... and Gloria Allred as well. Thanks very much.
ALLRED: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: Well, there's only a handful of people who have actually served on the Peterson jury. Later we're going to talk with another juror who was removed from the case. That's later on on 360.
Coming up next, though, Bill Clinton on morality politics and the future of the Democratic Party. Find out what he thinks cost Kerry the election.
Also tonight, 9/11 conspiracy theory. Have you seen this guy's one, one man's multimillion-dollar ad campaign? Tonight, we're going to separate facts from fiction. We're going to get to the bottom of it all.
First, let's take a look at your picks, the most popular stories on CNN.com right now.
COOPER: And we are live in Los Angeles. Welcome back.
Well, many Democrats are still suffering from postelection blues. Bill Clinton is offering a remedy to the downhearted. The former president, who tried to get John Kerry into the White House, is speaking publicly on what went wrong. And believe it or not, he is giving his party a morality lesson on the raw politics of loss.
CNN's Judy Woodruff reports.
FORMER PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON: Denial is not an acceptable strategy.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bill Clinton to his fellow Democrats, Wake up.
CLINTON: But we cannot be nationally competitive unless we feel comfortable talking about our convictions.
WOODRUFF: No hedging from this connoisseur of political gamesmanship. His team was outsmarted and outstumped by a Bush campaign he calls brilliant.
CLINTON: I do not believe either party has a monopoly on morality or truth.
WOODRUFF: But Clinton contends Democrats relinquished those virtues by refusing to discuss them. Pointing to gay marriage as an issue Dems fumbled as Republicans romped.
CLINTON: It worked superbly, but probably part of it's our fault for not making it clear that what our position was.
WOODRUFF: So will Clinton help his party triangulate its way back into power, infusing his postbypass life with a healthy dose of politics?
CLINTON: From time to time, I have been called the comeback kid.
WOODRUFF: There's been talk the so-called Clinton wing is angling to recapture control of the party. Some rosy lens Dems even dream of the former president as DNC chair. And then, of course, there's that other Clinton, the one who is already talked up in the 2008 presidential sweepstakes.
Surely, Hillary's husband will spread his influence all over that one.
CLINTON: I do what I can to help Hillary, because I'm really proud of her, and...
WOODRUFF: Which could keep Bill Clinton the Democrats' MVP. Nearly four years after his own game ended.
Judy Woodruff, CNN, Washington.
COOPER: Still got game.
Earlier, I discussed Clinton's comments with one of his former advisers, David Gergen. Here's some of what he had to say.
COOPER: David, we just heard Clinton saying that the Democrats essentially got outsmarted and outstumped on the morals issue. Do you think that's the number one thing Democrats have to work on for the next time around?
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Well, I think one of the things we know now, Anderson, is, we ask who's going to fill the vacuum left by John Kerry's departure? Well, Bill Clinton is bidding fair for it, isn't he? He's moved right in very quickly.
And yes, I do believe that the Democrats need to find ways to reconnect with the heartland. I don't think it has to be done entirely on sort of Republican issues. You can, you know, moral values included civil rights not too long ago, and there was a time, of course, when Democrats were very proud to have a lot of their force and energy coming out of black churches all across America.
COOPER: Did it surprise you when, I mean, "Newsweek" reported that Bill Clinton had advised John Kerry to speak out, or speak in support of the state ballot initiatives against gay marriage and against civil unions. Did that surprise you?
GERGEN: It did not. You know, we knew that their -- they had these long conversations. And I think one of Bill Clinton's strengths, and one of the reasons he's one of the only Democrat to be elected to the White House in the last 50 years, is, he is from the South, he is from the heartland. He knows those values. And I think he's just as on abortion, when he's pro-choice, but said abortions should be safe, legal, and rare, and rare.
On same-sex marriage, I think he advised John Kerry to come out for the bans on marriage, but to be in support of civil unions.
COOPER: Let's talk about Alberto Gonzales, the new nominee for attorney general. Interesting reaction from Democrats right now. You have Charles Schumer coming out with a statement, it was pretty positive. He says, "It's encouraging that the president has chosen someone less polarizing. We will have to review his record very carefully, but I can tell you already he's a better candidate than John Ashcroft."
But then Patrick Leahy comes out with a statement which is more sort of tempered, saying he likes and respects Judge Gonzales, but he said, "The Justice Department in the first Bush term was the least accountable Justice Department in my lifetime. Meaningful oversight and accountability were thwarted for years. We will be looking to see if Judge Gonzales intends to change that."
How do you read those statements?
GERGEN: Well, I think that the Democratic Party does not have a leader right now, nor is it, nor, you know, because people are not in Washington just sort of compare notes. They are going to attempt to spray around a lot on their responses.
But the, I, Pat Leahy is someone who served on the Judiciary Committee for a long time, and I think will ask tough questions of Mr. Gonzales, not only about the PATRIOT Act and the enforcement about it, but the views on, that were, that were wrapped up in the Guantanamo case and the treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib, and whether, you know, he felt -- he's written a memo saying that the Geneva Conventions are quaint and are aspects of it obsolete. And I think he's going to be grilled on that by Democrats.
But from the president's point of view, I think this is very interesting appointment. It signals first and foremost that the Bush II is going to be very much like Bush I. He's turning to many of the same people. He kept his chief of staff, Andy Card, at the White House. He's now moving his general counsel over to the Justice Department. Not reaching out for flesh blood, use, depending very much on the same people and I think very much on the same sort of philosophy, the much more conservative philosophy.
COOPER: A good note to end on. David Gergen, thanks very much.
GERGEN: Thank you.
COOPER: Well, we learned today that Martha Stewart is asking her company to pay off part of her legal Bills. That tops our look at what's happening right now cross-country.
Stewart wants her company to cover $3.7 million. And that's the cost linked to just a criminal charge that was thrown out. Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia disclosed the request in a regulatory filing. Stewart, of course, is serving out a five-month prison sentence.
We take you now to Junction City, Oregon, one of those stories that just makes you shake your head. Bullies in a school videotaped themselves beating up another kid, then they set it to rap music and distributed it as a DVD. They handed it out around the school. One student is charged with assault, others could be arrested. Unbelievable.
Houston, Texas, now, a naked man on the run in a bayou. Doesn't get stranger than this. Here you see police shocking the man with a taser to try to get him out of the water. Police say he set his mother's house on fire and then went into the water, claiming to be Jesus. The man was taken to a hospital for psychiatric care. And here in Los Angeles, Cat Woman has a new archenemy. It is him, Jim Belushi. The actor has filed a $4 million lawsuit against his next-door neighbor. Actress Julie Newmar, TV's original Cat Woman, that's her. Belushi claims she has harassed and defamed him to drive him out of the neighborhood. Newmar denies the allegations.
And that's a look at stories cross-country tonight.
360 next, 9/11 conspiracy theory. You may have seen the ads. Tonight, meet the millionaire behind them and find out if anything what the truth is, if anything.
Also, we will take a look at male body image and what they're calling bigorexia, men who are obsessed with the idea that they're too small, part of our special series, Starved for Perfection.
Also tonight, a juror dismissed in the Scott Peterson trial again. The foreman's been given the boot. They're meeting in chambers right now. Something could be happening. Is this case on the verge of a mistrial? We'll take a look.
Also, in a moment, today's 360 challenge. How closely have you been following today's news? We'll put you to the test.
We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE," NBC)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ah, Arnold, I can't believe how properly pumped up you really are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are the embodiment of perfect pumpitude.
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, ACTOR: Oh, yes, I know, I know, relax, fellows, relax, guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Arnold, look at this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ye, how about this?
SCHWARZENEGGER: Oh, you guys make me sick. Here's what you have to do, like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Of course, that's all for good laughs on "Saturday Night Live," an old clip there from the archives.
Yet for many men, body image really nothing to laugh at. Instead, they stress, much like women who have eating disorders. But unlike those women, the men believe their muscles are never big enough, their bodies are never lean enough. They're obsessed with a dangerous mix of compulsive dieting and exercise, trying to bulk up.
One man shares his battle with CNN's Adaora Udoji as we continue our special series, Starved for Perfection: Thin at All Costs.
MICHAEL, MBO PATIENT: You could just point me in the direction, maybe.
ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Strolling in Central Park is a victory for 24-year-old Michael. A year ago, he could barely go outside, ashamed to be seen.
MICHAEL: I felt like I had become some sort of a monster.
UDOJI: He thought he was ugly, scrawny, that people mocked him.
MICHAEL: For months at a time, I would just run on a treadmill and eat just maybe an apple and a piece of bread in the whole day. And...
UDOJI: How long would you be on that treadmill for?
MICHAEL: Up to two hours a day.
UDOJI: Obsessed with physical imperfections, no one else saw, he dropped on out of school. Four years he spent a prisoner in his parents house often thinking about suicide. Then he found the Bio- Behavioral Institute and was diagnosed with body dysmorphic disorder, or BDD.
DR. FUGEN NEZROGLU, BIO-BEHAVIORAL INSTITUTE: I think that a lot of individuals feel that body dysmorphic disorder is a manifestation of vanity. And it's not. As I said, it's really people feel worthless.
UDOJI: They don't know why, but, she says, pressure for bodily perfection is all around. And American diatetic association study found, up to one-third of teenage boys wish for a stronger body.
Doctor Fugen Nezroglu estimates BDD effects 2 percent to 13 percent of all Americans, usually starting around 16. Muscle dysmorphia, or bigaxeia, (ph) another aspects overwhelming affects males. It's the opposite of anorexia, now matter how big their muscles, men see a small person. For some, it's extreme.
NEZROGLU: They can't go to class. They can't go to work. They are excessively exercising. They're using steroids, or protein shakes. They are avoiding certain foods.
UDOJI: She said BDD is treatable with behavioral therapy. Michael says now he's excited about living again. He's in therapy and also taking classes with dreams of becoming an architect.
Adaora Udoji, CNN, Long Island, New York.
COOPER: And we wish him a lot of luck. Our series "Starve For Perfection" continues tomorrow. Models under intense pressure to stay thin, expose their so-called diets of deception. And Friday, don't believe what you see: how magazines create a beauty that is simply unattainable.
New ads, question what really happened on 9/11. Why did Building 7 collapse. Tonight, the real facts behind the ads and the conspiracy theory.
Another day, another twist in the Scott Peterson murder trial. Another juror dismissed, this time the foreman. Is this case headed for a mistrial?
And comedian Steve Harvey joins us live to talk politics and Peterson, and why he's searching for the craziest person in America. 360 continues.
COOPER: And the sun is setting here in Los Angeles. Welcome back.
Tonight we want to look very closely at a conspiracy theory that is exploding on the Internet and on the airwaves. A California millionaire has spent a lot of money running TV ads, suggesting that we don't really know the full facts of what happened on 9/11. Why World Trade Center building number 7 collapsed even though it wasn't hit by a plane. Why the hole in the Pentagon was so small.
In a moment you will meet the man behind the ads, an investigators who says there are answers to all those questions. But first here's Deborah Feyerick with a look at the ads, and the allegations.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The two ads suggest a government conspiracy and coverup, raising questions like why did a building two blocks from the World Trade Center Towers seem to implode?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was not hit by aircraft. It had no significant fire and no explanation for its collapse has been given.
FEYERICK: Another ad asking why plane parts at the Pentagon seem to have disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The photos show no cabin, no engines, and no tail.
FEYERICK: The 9/11 commission requested eyewitnesses to both events. A spokesman saying the official report, which makes no mention of any government conspiracy, speaks for itself. But the ads, paid for by California millionaire James Walters, are taking on a who killed JFK-like quality. And they're fueling efforts like 9/11 Citizenswatch, asking New York's attorney general to launch a criminal investigation into what they believe is a government coverup.
KYLE HENCE, 9/11 CITIZENSWATCH: I think there's clear evidence for convening grand juries, and examining the bodies of evidence that the independent community of researchers, and others -- family members, have brought forward.
FEYERICK: Even those who dismiss the more outlandish conspiracy theories say the 9/11 report is incomplete.
(on camera): Many people in the rest of the country probably think there's closure on this. Is there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not really, because there's still a lot of unanswered questions.
FEYERICK (voice-over): Glenn Corbett is helping investigate the collapse of the Towers for the National Institute of Standards and Technology.
GLENN CORBETT, JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE: The ads seem to implicate bombs and explosives, and the use of missiles on both the Pentagon and the World Trade Center complex. And the evidence, really, just doesn't support that from what we've found so far.
FEYERICK: Not only did Walters shell out 3 million for the TV ads, which got a lot of air time before the presidential elections, he also bought newspaper ads, and helped bankroll a Zogby Poll. The results of which he found 66 percent of those requested want the 9/11 investigation reopened.
Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New York.
COOPER: Joining me from Los Angeles, the man behind the advertising campaign, Jimmy Walter. And in Miami, lawyer and investigator, Gerald Posner, author of "Why America Slept: the Reasons Behind Our Failure To Prevent 9/11."
Appreciate both of you being on the program.
Jimmy, let me start off with 2 things. You talk about the Pentagon and Tower Number 7. Let's talk with the Pentagon. If Flight 77 didn't crash into the Pentagon, as you claim it didn't, what did and what happened to the 64 passengers who have died?
JAMES W. WALTER, CREATOR OF REOPEN911.ORG: Well, I don't know. And I am not the person to ask this, I don't have the best evidence. I do know that in 1962, the United States military joint chiefs of staff commissioned a program called Operation: Northwoods, in which they planned to have military personnel dress up as civilians, get on a civilian aircraft, land it secretly, take off a drone, shoot the drone down and blame it on Cuba as a pretext to invade Cuba.
COOPER: So you think this was a pretext, to what, invade Afghanistan and Iraq?
WALTER: I'm just saying that the United States military has done it before. To ask me what happened is absurd. I don't have the evidence. And the Pentagon refuses to release the tapes that would clearly show what hit the Pentagon. Why, if they are not trying to cover something up, won't they release the tapes to prove it one way or the other?
COOPER: All right. Gerald, let me bring you in here. A lot of the conspiracy theorists on this say that there was a small hole. And that there was no large hole from the wings of the plane that hit the Pentagon, therefore, there was no plane that hit the Pentagon. You're explanation.
GERALD POSNER, AUTHOR, "WHY AMERICA SLEPT": You know Anderson, everything about this, they use evidence, they misconstrue evidence. They say, well, the hole was very small. And they show you a picture from the top, an aerial satellite photograph for the top Pentagon that looks like a small hole.
They don't show you the front of the building, which is absolutely devastated through three different layers when that plane hits. And the plane does exactly what you expect it to. It's coming down, it hits the ground at 250 miles an hour. It's 100 tons of debris. It's hitting the Pentagon, which has these 6 and 12 inch steel girders. It largely disintegrates.
But you ask the key question, what about the 64 victims on the plane? Body parts were found there at the Pentagon. They were comprised through dental records and X-rays. Do we expect that somehow the government fired a missile into the Pentagon, then took the 64 bodies that dropped down on a plane somewhere in the United States, nobody saw this happen, drop the body parts in the Pentagon, so somehow we should feel that we should invade Afghanistan? Let me assure you, after the World Trade Center Towers were hit, we did not need the Pentagon as another target to have the American people feel they should go after Afghanistan.
COOPER: Jimmy, your other major assertion is that the World Trade Building Number 7 was detonated from within. And in your commercial, you say that there's never been any public explanation given for why the building collapsed. What is your theory or belief on that?
WALTER: The building is brought down by explosives. Clearly if you look at Larry Silverstein in a movie he claims he told the fire department of the city of New York to pull the building. That's a construction industry specific term to bring down a building with explosives. Larry Silverstein is not an official of the government. He does not represent every person...
COOPER: He's the man who helped police on the World Trade Center. Gerald, let me bring in you here because I've read, this commercial said there's no evidence ever publicly been given. I've read evidence that there was diesel fuel inside the building, being stored there. What do you know about building number 7, why it collapsed?
POSNER: Building number 7 is one of the clearest examples, it's actually a slam dunk in terms of engineering. That's how it came down. I don't even know why this one is a mystery at all and I'll tell you why. It happens to be built over two electrical substations owned by the old electrical utility Coned (ph). It's an unusual design. It has a crosshatch of steel girders that are literally holding it up and after it was built, not the original designs, they stored 45,000 gallons of diesel fuel there, that was used for emergency fuel for generators, for Mayor Giuliani's emergency operations and for the Secret Service.
When that caught fire after the World Trade Center was hit and some of the damage is done to the fire retardant materials in that building there's a fire for five to seven hours. Just the opposite of what you heard in the ad. It slowly burns through those steel birders, fueled by the diesel fuel, and if you watch the tape that's on that ad, 30 seconds before the building implodes, you see the actual mechanical room crash through exactly where you expect it to. There's a clear engineering explanation for that building.
COOPER: We're going to have to leave it there tonight. Gerald Posner, appreciate you joining and Jimmy Walter, as well, thank you very much.
WALTER: It's totally wrong.
COOPER: Well, I know that is your theory and you have been airing those commercials.
COOPER: Right. And I think what he is saying is that the wings disintegrated while hitting the ground. That's what I heard him saying. But people can go to your website, they have seen your commercials and you have spent $3 million propagating this. And we appreciate you joining us. Thank you very much. We are going to be doing a special series on conspiracy theories after thanksgiving, and we'd like to hear from you. What's the big story that you think has been covered up that you want us to look into. Email us now. 360@CNN.com
Coming up next. Once again a juror dismissed in the Scott Peterson trial. This thing just keeps going on and on. This time it was the foreman. Is the mistrial next? We'll take a look.
Also tonight, far different tone, Steve Harvey is going to join me live to talk politics, his TV and radio shows and who knows what else. He'll join us live.
Also in a moment today's 360 challenge, how closely you have been following today's news. Find out next.
COOPER: Well, instead of remaining anonymous, the Scott Peterson jury has been getting all the attention this week. For the second day in a row, a juror has been dismissed. His name is Gregory Jackson and he was also the foreman. Does this make the possibility of a mistrial more likely? To discuss that, joining me from Kansas city is Justin Falconer. He served on the Peterson jury before being dismissed over the summer. Joining me in Los Angeles trial consultant Paul Lisner. Paul, good to see you as well.
Does this surprise you, this is the third juror now, the second this week.
PAUL LISNER, TRIAL CONSULTANT: This one is surprising. Because you figure if the judge had some indication yesterday he would have wiped everybody out in one fell swoop. It may be that when he interviewed these jurors individually, he learned that jurors number 5, our foreperson may have said that he had done something or had access to some information or thought about what this other juror had said that made a difference on him and the judge mulled it over overnight. Apparently first thing this morning, the juror is going.
COOPER: Justin, we served on this jury for a while. I want to talk about juror number 5. I'm going to put on the screen some information that we know about him. He's described as a retired man, in his 50s or 60s, said to have known Scott Peterson, his son-in-law now owns a restaurant which was once owned by Scott and Laci. What can you tell us about him? What do you know?
JUSTIN FALCONER, FMR. PETERSON JUROR: Yes, he was really open- minded, really friendly, very outgoing when I was speaking to him before in the jury room. He seems very intelligent and open-minded. I think he's going to do pretty good in there. There's probably going to be some happenings here in the next couple of days.
COOPER: Paul, does it seem strange to you that a juror who knew Scott Peterson and Laci Peterson would be allowed to be on this jury?
LISNER: This is like a revisiting of "All My Children." But what has to be is that when they interviewed this juror upfront, he said, look, it's my son-in-law, he's married to my daughter, I don't know much about this, it doesn't impact me at all. And both lawyers would have been comfortable that he remained. Remember it's not about who wanted to keep him, it's that nobody felt that they needed to get rid of him off of this jury.
But it is a little strange out of all the 1,000 people they kept somebody who owns the same restaurant.
COOPER: Justin, let's take a look at what we know about the new jury foreman described as a firefighter and a paramedic in his thirties or forties. Some inside the courtroom have said he didn't take any notes, didn't seem to be paying a lot of attention during the trial. Is that the way he was from the beginning of the trial that you remember?
FALCONER: He was paying attention. That's the same thing I heard. That's the same thing that I heard, too, because I wasn't taking as much notes as say the dismissed juror number 5. He did take notes. He did listen and pay attention, and I do think he's going to be pretty good as the foreman. I think he's going to be able to wind them in and get some things going. Maybe we're going to start seeing some more action in there. Obviously the lawyers are in the chambers now. So it will be interesting to find out what they are talking about.
COOPER: Paul, replacing a foreman. What kind of an impact can that have on a jury?
LISNER: Well, it could impact a lot. I think what may have happened here is that our original foreman who was a doctor and a lawyer, he pushed things along, enforced things along, this guy, the new one is a paramedic. And what do paramedics do? They keep people calm. They keep people under control. He may have been sort of a functional leader throughout this process and now that it's time to pick a new foreperson the jury may have looked at him and said, you will control this well, you'll respect us. He may have made sure that everybody was participating in the discussion, so it may be a good thing for the jury to allow somebody they (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
COOPER: Paul Lisner, good to talk to you again. Justin Falconer, appreciate you joining us. Thank you.
Coming up next on 360 talking comedy, one of my favorite comedians Steve Harvey, one of the hardest working and funniest men in showbiz, in this business they call show. He will be here live. We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE HARVEY, COMEDIAN: My mama made us go to church so much, I used to look at my Mama sometimes and just say, Mama I'd rather go to hell.
HARVEY: Because this going to heaven just way too much pressure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well you can't come to Los Angeles and not hear Steve Harvey. The comedian has the number one radio show in the city. Whether it's radio or movies or stand up or on TV with "Steve Harvey's Big Time," he's the original "King of Comedy," knows how to make people laugh out loud. I am very pleased that Steve Harvey joins me now. Thanks very much for being with us.
HARVEY: Thanks for having me, man.
COOPER: I heard on your radio show, tonight's actually seeing you in person.
HARVEY: Yes, is it was slick. I mean, you've been on there a couple of times. COOPER: I have. I have.
HARVEY: Big political year for you and everything.
COOPER: Yes, that's right. Well, do you follow politics closely.
HARVEY: Just enough.
COOPER: Just enough.
HARVEY: Just enough to stay ticked by it, you know. Just enough, man.
COOPER: Yes, were you surprised by the results of the election.
HARVEY: I was kind of. I really thought Kerry had a shot at winning. You know, I like George Bush, he wasn't my guy. But I like him, I think he's a good family man, I think morally he's a nice guy.
COOPER: A lot of celebrities are getting involved in politic, do you like. Do you think they make a difference?
HARVEY: No, obviously, not. You know.
COOPER: You think they all wanted Kerry?
HARVEY: Vote or die. We had Rock The Vote and Bush is still president. I think it made a big -- I think a lot of young people registered to vote. But I think it was just too heated this year, too much going on, where it didn't -- we didn't make, obviously, a big enough difference.
COOPER: Right. Do you talk about -- it's amazing out here the Laci Peterson trial, I mean, everybody is talking about the Scott Peterson trial.
Are you just sick of hearing about this?
HARVEY: Not really. I'm just happy it's not me. Just as long as it ain't me, I don't really care.
COOPER: As long as your not on trial?
HARVEY: Yes, I don't want to be the guy. But they're trying to hang this guy for sure.
COOPER: You think.
HARVEY: Oh yes, because everything says mistrial on this one. You are getting rid a juror a day we are losing. I mean, something is wrong in here. And that's a mistrial to me, from my little law experience which is just mostly on the other side of it. But that would normally get me off with the right lawyer. And obviously, they want to get this guy because they are not letting it die.
COOPER: I hear you are searching for the craziest person in America.
HARVEY: Yes, on my show, "Steve Harvey's Big Time."
COOPER: What kind of people have been you been finding so far?
HARVEY: Well, we had a guy on last night that aired this Sunday, there's a guy from Seoul Korea, a 71-year-old man, who puts hot lead in a cup and roasts it up to 900 degrees, then he pours it in his mouth, turns it into a coin, and spits it out on a thick piece of styrofoam and it burns through the styrofoam into the glass.
COOPER: How do you think he learn to do that? Like do you think he was experimenting one day?
HARVEY: He hurt himself pretty bad one time doing it.
COOPER: Did he really?
HARVEY: And that makes you master it after that. He goes into this heavy chi moment where he pulls a lot of stuff into. I told him I could put the hot lava in my mouth, but it won't come back out the mouth. It will come out, but it will be in spray form.
COOPER: Do you watch the news a lot. Do you follow...
HARVEY: Yes, I keep up on it. Yes, I'm pretty -- pretty into the news. You know, I watch and I keep up with everything, I try to.
Why what you got?
COOPER: No. Just wondering. Just want to make sure you are watching from time to time.
HARVEY: I watch everything, man. I know what's going on. I saw your little guy with the theory about the 9/11. That's pretty interesting.
COOPER: Do you buy that?
HARVEY: No. But I just think it's interesting.
COOPER: A lot of conspiracy theories floating out there.
HARVEY: I go for it, but then, you know, the IRS seems to look at people who do stuff like that, and I really don't need to draw any undue attention to myself, so I'm going to just let it ride.
We love the president, ya. Knew know, Julian Bonds spoke out on behalf on of the NAACP and you see the trouble they got in, so.
COOPER: So you're just going to stay laying low?
HARVEY: I love George Bush.
COOPER: Steve Harvey, thanks...
COOPER: Well, coming up next on 360, motherhood at the age of 56. We'll take that to "The Nth Degree." And the "360 Challenge," here's another look at tonight's questions. Have you been paying attention?
Log onto cnn.com/360. You can click on the answer link to play.
No. 1, the national color-coded threat level being lowered to what color in NYC, Newark and D.C.?
No. 2, the third juror to be dismissed from Peterson's murder trial is juror number what?
No. 3, Martha Stewart wants her company to pay for her legal bills totaling how much?
HARVEY: See, I could answer all that.
COOPER: Steve Harvey knows them all. We might send him the 360 shirt.
We will be right back.
COOPER: Time now for the answers to today's 360 Challenge.
No. 1, the national color-coded threat level is being lowered to what color, the answer is yellow.
No. 2, the third juror to be dismissed from the Scott Peterson murder trial is juror number what, the answer 5.
And finally Martha Stewart wants her company to pay for her legal bills totalling how much, the answer $3.7 million.
The first person to answer all three questions correctly will be sent a 360 T-shirt. Tune in tomorrow to find out if you are the one. Last night's winner, Julie Amon, of Cleveland, Ohio. There she is.
Another 360 Challenge another chance to win tomorrow.
And finally tonight taking puzzlement to "The Nth Degree." I spent tonight mulling over one of yesterday's story, about the woman who became a mother for the first time of twins, no less, at the age of 56. And there's still something I don't really understand. Now, one of the things Aleta St. James said when she was asked why she decided to become pregnant in the first place was -- well she said this.
"I'm very young and vivacious and my whole world is about manifesting, so I decided to manifest children."
Now, if you don't mind our saying so, Miss St. James, manifest? According to the dictionary it has several meanings. Readily perceived by the sense and especially by the sight. Easily understood or recognized by the mind. To make evident or certain by showing or displaying. A list of passengers or an invoice of cargo.
In other words, your whole life is about being readily perceived and understood, so you resolved to make yourself more evident by displaying the two passengers or the cargo you were carrying. It's all very clear to me now.
Thanks very much for watching 360 from Los Angeles. We'll be back here tomorrow.
Coming up next "PAULA ZAHN NOW."
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