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Lou Dobbs Tonight

Hundreds of Insurgents Killed in Falluja; Interview With Anthony Principi; Interview With Mel Martinez

Aired November 11, 2004 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOU DOBBS, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, American and Iraqi troops are storming remaining enemy strongholds in Falluja. An estimated 600 insurgents have been killed in the assault.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will be meritorious in this fight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ten-hut!

DOBBS: President Bush salutes our troops in Falluja and honors all our veterans on this Veterans Day.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our hearts are filled with respect and gratitude for the veterans of the United States of America.

DOBBS: Tonight, the secretary of veteran's affairs, Anthony Principi, is my guest.

Also tonight, the new Bush agenda. I'll be talking with Senator- elect Mel Martinez of Florida.

ABC will air "Saving Private Ryan" tonight, uncut, unedited, in prime time. More than 20 ABC affiliates are refusing to air the movie because of its violence and crude language. We'll have a special report.

And Yasser Arafat is dead. What's next in the Israeli- Palestinian conflict? PLO adviser Diana Buttu is my guest.

And is the United Nations a greater force for chaos than good? Former Israeli ambassador Dore Gold says the answer is yes. He's our guest tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Thursday November 11. Here now for an hour of news, debate, and opinion is Lou Dobbs.

DOBBS: Good evening.

Tonight, American soldiers and Marines and Iraqi troops have launched a new wave of attacks against remaining insurgent strongholds in Falluja. Our troops are fighting house-to-house and street-by- street, hunting down surviving anti-Iraqi forces. The military says 600 insurgents have been killed since this offensive began Monday.

Lindsey Hilsum of ITN is with the U.S. Marines in Falluja and has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LINDSEY HILSUM, ITN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gate to gate, door-to-door, breaking and entering, aware that any house may be booby-trapped or occupied by gunmen.

The unit we're with has spent the past four days pushing south through the Jolan district of Falluja.

This is violent work. If they can't open the gate any other way, they lay a charge and blow it.

Everything's seen as a potential threat. Cars are detonated, just in case they're car bombs. This one burned for half an hour or so.

And they are having to fight as insurgents leave an area and then creep back.

CAPT. BRIAN CHONTOSH, U.S. MARINE CORPS: It was the most resistance we had. Got across between some civilians and some bad guys.

HILSUM (on camera): What happened?

CHONTOSH: We shot a lot of bad guys and collected the civilians up really good and brought the civilians back. And the bad guys, there's a couple dead, and there's a couple back there right now, getting worked by our exportation teams.

HILSUM (voice-over): The units captured about 12 prisoners who have been taken away for interrogation.

Amongst the civilians they found was a child who'd been locked in a room. They also came across the bodies of five men who appeared to have been executed with a gunshot to the throat.

We saw just one body lying where he'd fallen. The unit leader says they've killed several insurgents.

CHONTOSH: Yes, we're finding a lot of weapons today. Today was the largest stockpiles of weapons. We've found about six, six sites. Some explosives. Couple of houses rigged to blow. Cell phones, a lot of cell phones. So we're finding the usual mix but not large quantities today.

HILSUM: Some weapons, like these rockets and rifles, are gathered up and taken away to be destroyed. Others left where they're found to be dealt with on the spot. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, you can tell because this was their sleeping bag. They've had some -- some I.D.s also and found some squibs here. And some -- several civilian (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right there. And basically this was their area right here, and they had a little area outside which they had set up as a fighting hole. They left in a hurry.

HILSUM: Amongst the weapons, those given by the Americans to the Falluja brigade, the Iraqi militia, who were meant to control the town, but then turned on their U.S. sponsors.

A few blocks of plastic explosives ensured that this cache met the same fate as the others.

The armored vehicles wreak their destruction, too. The Marine attitude is that such force is necessary, and whatever's demolished now, they can always rebuild later.

Insurgents may have pushed the people out of these houses some time back. Still it's strange to think that these are family homes, where ordinary people lived, now abandoned to war. Photos staring at no one. Once caged birds bewildered to be free.

(on camera): The soldiers are still going from house to house but now they're staying in the houses and holding them. The firefight is still going on. There is resistance in the surrounding areas.

Later on they'll start patrolling, to flush out the last of the insurgents, some whom they say came during the -- left during the night and then came back during the day.

(voice-over): American forces are consolidating their hold on Falluja, hoping they fatally wounded the insurgency in Iraq, not simply driven the rebels out of this town to set up in another.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: That was Lindsey Hilsum with the U.S. Marines in Falluja.

The Pentagon today released new casualty figures for our troops in Falluja. Officials said 18 of our soldiers and Marines have been killed; 178 troops have been wounded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. GEN. RICHARD NATONSKI, COMMANDER, 1ST MARINE DIVISION: Fighting continues this evening against the determined foes. But the forces of the coalition are more determined that we will be victorious in this fight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: General Natonski said the operation to clear Falluja of anti-Iraqi schedules is ahead of schedule.

Elsewhere in Iraq today, insurgents launched a new series of attacks. In Baghdad, a car bomb killed 19 Iraqis in a busy commercial section. That bomb went off shortly after an American military patrol passed by. None of our troops was killed or wounded.

And in the northern city of Mosul, insurgents stormed a number of police stations and set them on fire. There are reports that some police officers cooperated with insurgents. American and Iraqi troops did engage the enemy. It's not clear how many people were wounded or killed in that engagement.

Joining me now from Chicago is our military analyst, General David Grange.

Dave, good to have you with us.

GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: As you suggested last night here, the number of insurgents, anti-Iraqi forces killed, has risen and risen dramatically from those earlier reports to more than 600. Is it your expectation that we're going to see a significant body count as a result of this operation?

GRANGE: Lou, I don't know if it'll be significant. But there -- as they get closer to closer to pinching out the final pockets of resistance, they'll find more -- more dead enemy bodies.

And the cordon, the cordon is the security zone outside the city, will also scarf up or kill many fleeing because that's what they're trying to do at that time.

DOBBS: The issue of the cordon or the surrounding of Falluja, as you can best assess it, is that cordon in place and has that been successful in preventing the escape of insurgents from Falluja?

GRANGE: Lou, I believe a good portion of the insurgents most likely escaped before the forces got into place. But saying that, this is a mighty blow to the insurgents.

And I think what's more important in the physical dimension, in other words, the attrition warfare that's take place right now street by street, house by house is the effect, the moral effect it'll have by taking away the symbol, the stronghold, this image of strength of the insurgents away from them. That will have a deep moral effect on the enemy.

DOBBS: And the idea that so many of the enemy was apparently permitted to escape before this assault began, do you think that's appropriate strategy? Appropriate tactics?

GRANGE: No. I mean, you want to keep them all in one place and kill them. Insurgents like to fight in two and three person elements. They don't want to be in a big group. When they're in a big group, that's good for the coalition. That means you kill more of them in one place. You don't have to hunt them down.

But it may have been out of the control of the military because of political reasons and when they could start the advance or seal off the city from the normal daily life.

DOBBS: And General, I want to turn to the fact that this is a day in which we honor our veterans. And I want to congratulate you and wish you a very Veterans Day.

Is it your sense that we are doing all we should be doing for our veterans in this country right now?

GRANGE: Well, no. We're not. There's a lot more being done today than probably anytime in history but more can be done. And you know, it's 25 million veterans in the United States still alive from previous wars and of course, coming back from Afghanistan and Iraq today.

And medical disability, retirement, family support systems can all be improved.

But again, whatever Veterans Affairs and the retirement apparatus receives from Congress, the administration is what they have to live with. Those are the entities that make the decisions in how much support the American G.I. gets.

DOBBS: Now, General, I said we're going to congratulate you and wish you a happy Veterans Day. I think probably the appropriate thing is simply, especially on Veterans Day, is thank you.

President Bush today saluted our soldiers and Marines in Falluja. President Bush made those remarks during a Veterans Day ceremony at Arlington National Cemetery.

Senior White House Correspondent John King has our report -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And, Lou, it is tradition, of course, for this president and his predecessors to take the short trip from the White House across the Potomac to Arlington National Cemetery to take part in the ceremonies, paying tribute to those who have served this country in the armed forces.

Mr. Bush paying tribute to those who lost their lives in past conflicts, making note of the fact, as General Grange just did, that 25 million Americans are veterans walking the streets, going to work every day now. Mr. Bush paid tribute to them as well.

All four times, Mr. Bush has made this journey, he has been not only president but commander in chief of troops fighting the war on terrorism around the world. So not surprising at all that, as Mr. Bush paid tribute today, he paid special attention to those troops in harm's way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Some of tomorrow's veterans are in combat in Iraq at this hour. They have a clear mission to defeat the terrorists and aid the rise of a free government that can defend itself. They're performing that mission with skill and with honor. They are making us proud. They are winning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: As you can hear, the president optimistic there about the ongoing operations in Iraq. He will swap notes, if you will, and plot strategy on Iraq tonight. You see British Prime Minister Tony Blair there, leaving his side of the Atlantic to make his way to Washington.

He is due here at the White House later this hour for two days of talks with the president, dinner and casual conversations tonight, more formal discussions in the morning. The two leaders also will have a news conference. They will compare notes, plot strategy on trying to defeat the insurgency and bring security for the elections in Iraq.

And, Lou, the two men will also talk about a key European demand that Mr. Bush be more energized and apply more time and energy, if you will, to trying to get the Israelis and the Palestinians back into a peace process following the death of Yasser Arafat -- Lou.

DOBBS: John, thank you very much.

John King, our senior White House correspondent.

We'll have much more here on the Middle East after the death of Yasser Arafat in just a moment.

What is next in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? Diana Buttu, legal adviser to the Palestinian Liberation Organization, is my guest.

And is ABC crossing the line in choosing to broadcast a graphic, unedited war movie in prime time? Twenty ABC stations say yes. We'll have that special report next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat will be buried tomorrow in Ramallah in the West Bank after a military funeral in Cairo. Arafat died late yesterday in a French military hospital of an unknown illness. He was 75. Former Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas will replace Arafat as head of the Palestine Liberation Organization.

My guest is legal adviser to the PLO. Diana Buttu joins us now from Ramallah. Good to have you with us.

First, what is the mood there in Ramallah this evening?

DIANA BUTTU, LEGAL ADVISER TO THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY: Well, people here ARE incredibly saddened by the news of the death of President Arafat. People awoke this morning to hear the Koran being recited over the loudspeakers of mosques, while at same time hearing the chimes of bells from the churches, signifying that he is being mourned not only by Muslims, but by Christians as well.

People are wearing black in the streets, and many people are wearing the Palestinian kafia, the symbol, the scarf that President Arafat also worn. People have been lighting candles and carrying his picture. So the mood is incredibly sad. People are very, very saddened by the news of his death.

DOBBS: Diana, Mahmoud Abbas has been chosen to lead the PLO. Will there be, as envisioned, elections, and do you expect those to come off as orderly as regionally conceived?

BUTTU: Yes, I certainly hope that there will be elections. In fact, under the Palestinian Authority's constitution, it's the -- the person who's now taken control is the person who is the speaker of the legislative council, a man named Rawhi Fattouh, and he will be in charge for a period of 60 days as the interim president, during which time there will be elections held.

I am looking forward to elections being held. It will confirm a legitimate leader rather than somebody who is simply put into the place. I'm hoping that the United States will support those elections, and I'm hoping that Israel will not block those elections as it has done in the past.

We've already seen that two months that the Israeli's closed voter registration centers in Jerusalem. I'm hoping that they won't block these now.

DOBBS: Is it your sense that during this period in which Arafat will be buried, a period of mourning by Palestinians, that we will see a peaceful period in the West Bank and Gaza in Israel, Diana?

BUTTU: I'm certainly hoping so. You know, President Arafat has died, but what has not died is Israel's 37-year military occupation. That occupation is continuing as we speak. I'm hoping that there will be a period of calm, but, at the end of the day, what I'm really hope will emerge is the recognition that the violence is the result of 37 years of military occupation, and I'm hoping that the international community will make sure that that occupation finally ends.

DOBBS: Of course, Diana, no one can change what is 37 years past, but one can control the future, can't one?

BUTTU: Well, yes and no. The Palestinians are going to try to be able to control their future, but, at the end of the day, it's Israel who holds all of the cards. Israel's the party that is in military control over the Palestinians, and it's Israelis who's been denying the Palestinians of their freedom. The Palestinians will certainly try to do their best, but, at the end of the day, I think it's important to recognize the power and balance.

DOBBS: Diana Buttu, thank you very much, from Ramallah.

Coming up next, how far is too far on primetime network television? ABC broadcasting a war movie with graphic violence and crude language in primetime tonight. We'll have that special report.

And a power shift in Washington. Senator-elect Mel Martinez of Florida among those who has shifted the power. He joins me to talk about the Bush agenda and his own aspirations as U.S. senator from Florida.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: British Prime Minister Tony Blair has just arrived at Andrews Air Force Base outside Washington. The prime minister will go to the White House within the hour. He'll be there for two days talking with the president. Blair has said Middle East peace will be one of his top priorities in discussions with President Bush.

Turning now to a controversy over indecent language and violence on primetime television. ABC will broadcast a graphic, uncut, unedited version of the World War II film "Saving Private Ryan" in primetime tonight. A number of ABC affiliates all across the country are refusing to air the movie. They cite battle scenes and obscene language that are simply too crude for a primetime audience.

Bill Tucker has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL TUCKER, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The violence and profanity of war not acceptable on ABC affiliates owned by E.W. Scripps, Citadel Communications, Velo Corporation and a handful of independent affiliates. Moral outrage? No. Script's released a statement saying that "recent decisions by the Federal Communications Commission made it clear the type of profanity used in the movie is unacceptable to air."

ABC executives kept a low profile, but released a statement saying that they are "proud to once again broadcast the Oscar-winning film" and that "the broadcast will contain clear advisories and parental guidelines."

Yes,"Saving Private Ryan" has aired twice already on ABC, but the last time was back in November of 2002. Since October of last year, the FCC has levied fines of nearly $4 million against radio and TV stations for violating its indecency rules. And the last set of fines in October were handed down against Fox affiliates for airing an episode of "Married by America."

Whatever the reason, financial or moral, groups which oppose the broadcast of the movie are glad the message that profanity and violence is not acceptable in primetime is being heard.

RANDY SHARP, AMERICAN FAMILY ASSOCIATION: America has woken up, and we've seen that the networks have started going down that slippery slope, getting worse and worse and worse, and there has to be a line drawn in the sand. Bono set that line, Janet Jackson set that line, and "Private Ryan" is going to cross that line, if it is aired unedited tonight. TUCKER: The Parents Television Council, which is ordinarily a voice against violence and strong language in primetime, doesn't oppose the airing of the movie, but would have liked to have seen ABC handle the presentation in a better ways.

BRENT BOZELL, PARENTS TELEVISION COUNCIL: There are other things ABC could have done. ABC could have and should have aired this movie at 9:00 p.m., not 8:00 p.m. at the start of the family hour.

TUCKER: FCC policy is not to preempt broadcasts, but to react to complaints.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCKER: ABC says in the event of any fines, if there are fines, that it will cover them for its affiliates. But then it goes on to note that the film has already aired twice and that it has the backing of the Parents Television Council.

And, Lou, they also add tonight's presentation is introduced by Senator John McCain.

DOBBS: Well, that would be helpful to their cause, but it's clear that ABC is engaging on this issue, is it not?

TUCKER: It is indeed, and they clearly feel very strongly that this is something that they can do and that they can get away with. The last two airings, Lou, they only got one complaint.

DOBBS: As they say, a different time, same channel.

Thanks a lot.

That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. Do you believe networks should broadcast programming with indecent language in primetime? Yes or no. Cast your vote at cnn.com/lou. We'll have the results later in the broadcast.

Coming up here tonight, power shift in Congress. Power shift in Washington. One of six new Republican senators heading to Washington, D.C., is Mel Martinez of Florida. The senator-elect is my guest next.

And then, a scathing new book on the United Nations and its role in global chaos and even terrorism. Its author is former Israeli Ambassador to the United Nations Dore Gold. He says the U.N. has only added to problems around the world.

All of that and a great deal more still ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here now for more news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.

DOBBS: In just a moment, I'll be talking with newly elected senator from Florida, Mel Martinez, but first, let's take a look at some of the top stories in the news tonight.

More unrest in the Ivory Coast. As France evacuates hundreds more people, several other western states following suit. That after clashes between the government of the Ivory Coast and French peacekeepers. Urgent peace talks held today trying to avoid a full- scale war in the country.

The Roman Catholic diocese of Spokane, Washington, will become the third in the country to file for bankruptcy since July. The bishop of Spokane plans to file later this month. The bankruptcy comes as 19 sexual abuse lawsuits have been brought by 58 plaintiffs in the diocese.

And attorneys for Senator John Kerry are investigating alleged voting irregularities in Ohio. Those attorneys say every vote must be counted. The Kerry campaign goes to great lengths to say that it is in no way challenging the results of the presidential election. Ohio's 20 electoral votes went to President Bush, giving him enough votes to win.

Tonight, we continue our special report on the president's agenda over the next four years. President Bush says one of his goals is to fight rising health-care costs and the frivolous lawsuits that he says are to blame.

Lisa Sylvester reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One of the president's first priorities is medical malpractice reform, capping noneconomic and punitive damages. Doctors argue rising malpractice insurance rates are driving them out of business, leaving their communities underserved.

LARRY SMARR, PHYSICIANS INSURERS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA: There is a lot of meritless litigation, and something needs to be done to stop this lottery system that fully 40 percent of all the money available to pay plaintiffs is sucked off by the plaintiff lawyer.

SYLVESTER: Democrats say insurance companies are to blame for the high rates, not the jury awards. Less controversial is a plan President Bush promoted on the campaign trail, to create health savings accounts. Uninsured Americans would get tax breaks to buy high deductible, low premium insurance plans. It's part of an overall philosophy that shifts health care choices and costs to individuals.

BLENDON: The president has the strongest commitment of any president in years to really encouraging market incentives where individuals take responsibility of their own health care, make more of their choices, and at the same time, pay actually directly more of their bills.

SYLVESTER: But as the government moves away from the health care business, critics worry that existing entitlements like Medicare and Medicaid could be reduced, increasing the number of uninsured. POLLACK: There are there 51 million people who today count on Medicaid as their health lifeline. So if that program gets cut, we're going to see a lot of people who can't get coverage through their employer and can't afford coverage on their own losing coverage.

SYLVESTER: Medicaid cuts and tort reform failed to move through Congress this year. But with more Republicans in office, the equation changes in the next congressional session.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: Another area that will be debated is prescription drug importation. The Bush administration opposes allowing people to buy medicine from Canada, but lawmakers may move ahead anyway under pressure from their constituents, Lou.

DOBBS: Thank you, Lisa.

President Bush has called my next guest the embodiment of the American dream. Mel Martinez last week became the first Cuban- American to be elect to the United States Senate. He will serve the state of Florida, of course, Senator-elect Martinez is the former secretary of housing and urban development in the Bush administration. And he joins us tonight from Orlando. Good to have you with us.

MEL MARTINEZ, (R-FL), SENATOR-ELECT: Thank you, Lou. Good to be with you.

DOBBS: How does it feel to hear the term senator elect?

MARTINEZ: It sounds really good. We worked awfully hard it get there. And I am very proud to have that title.

DOBBS: An extraordinarily close election as the country indeed knows. What do you think was the pivotal issue in determining the outcome?

MARTINEZ: Well, I think a lot of analysis has been done throughout the nation about the attitude of voters. But I think the war on terror was the single issue in Florida that drove the election. I think people were very concerned about safety and security. And I think, obviously, the issue of the whole moral agenda I think also played a significant role in Florida as it did in other parts.

DOBBS: You support the idea of a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. Your opponent in the election for that Senate seat did not. How critical was that?

MARTINEZ: You know, I don't know that that was the driving issue, but I think it was one several issues that created a composite of moral issues that people were concerned about. And I think that played a role in it. But it was a very close election. I think at the end of the day, a significant turnout of Hispanic voters, Cuban- Americans, particularly. And a lot of those who were even Democrats crossed over to vote for me. And I think that was equally important. So, I thought it was a good showing of the Hispanic vote in Florida. DOBBS: Good showing of the Hispanic vote, as you say. Yet President Bush won by a five-point margin. And you by a very narrow margin. Does that give you any pause at all?

MARTINEZ: Well, unquestionably, I ran closest to the president of any of the other Republican candidates that won in terms of the differential between his vote and mine. And so I think that we always thought that we would run behind the president. I know some people thought we would run ahead of the president, but that's an awfully tall order to accomplish in a presidential year, I think senatorial candidates typically run behind the president.

DOBBS: And as you reflect on the Bush agenda, one of the issues that the president's obviously made a huge issue of, already by sending two cabinet secretaries to Mexico City is immigration.

MARTINEZ: Yes.

DOBBS: Do you believe, honestly, that this immigration policy, or lack of it, can be altered in the course of the next year or so?

MARTINEZ: I think we really need gave an honest try. I think that is a real serious problem in the country. We need to continue strong border enforcement, but at the same time, we deal with the people that are already here, that are already working, that our economy needs to be part of the work force. We need to somehow regularize their status so they can work here and then be about the business of contributing to our economy as they do now, but also they can themselves perceive the benefit of that. They can work over the table, not under the table.

DOBBS: Yes. The fact is, the word amnesty is a lightning rod in Washington, D.C., indeed around the country. Do you support amnesty for illegal aliens, 15 million of them in this country?

MARTINEZ: I really don't think amnesty can be the answer. I heard an earful of that in the course of the campaign. I understand how the people of Florida feel on that one. And I promise you, there is no support for amnesty around this state and I cannot support it.

But I do think some sort a worker status for some period of time. What people don't want to do is reward the illegal entry into the country with then a path to citizenship. But once they're here, they're working, they're productive citizens. They're not here to take, but to contribute, then I think a worker status is appropriate. And I think that's where the president is headed.

DOBBS: And the president has set a bold agenda. Are you in absolute -- are you absolutely in harmony with the president on the issue of Social Security, partial, minor privatization, simplifying tax reform?

MARTINEZ: I think we need to do some of those things. I would always want to see the proposals in the specifics in this. It's always in agreement generally, but I think the details is always where the problems come in. So, look forward to being a supporter of the reform of Social Security. I think some private accounts is a good idea for younger workers.

But people in my state are very concerned to making sure that the senior citizens who are in our state, can continue to get the benefits without any threat or any problem to that. And additionally to that, people that are facing retirement years they also need to be assured that their Social Security is going to be there for them without any changes.

DOBBS: Mel Martinez, senator-elect from the state of Florida, congratulations.

MARTINEZ: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: Thanks for being with us.

Still ahead here tonight, a former Israeli ambassador to the United Nations calls the U.N. "The Tower of Babble." Dore Gold will join me to talk about his critical new book "Tower of Babble."

And President Bush and all Americans honor the millions of men and women who have served this country in uniform. On this Veteran's Day, we're joined by the Secretary of Veteran's Affairs, Anthony Principi. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Former Israeli ambassador to the United Nations, Dore Gold's new book is nothing less than a scathing indictment of the United Nations. The book is entitled "Tower of Babble." And it accuses the United Nations straight out of fueling global chaos. Gold argues that when it comes to advancing international peace and security, the United Nations is simply a failure. And Ambassador Gold joins me now. Good to have you with us.

DORE GOLD, "TOWER OF BABBLE": A pleasure to be here.

DOBBS: In your book, you don't hold anything back. Straightforward accountability for Rwanda, for Bosnian atrocities, the issue of the way in which the U.N. is organized contributing to chaos. Are you intrinsically opposed to the idea of the United Nations?

GOLD: I think the United Nations is a great idea. I think initially when Franklin Roosevelt and Winston Churchill conceived of the United Nations at the end of World War II, they had an idea. We need to have a world body that can nip aggression in the bud and prevent a replay of World War II.

But here's the problem, the U.N. systematically cannot identify when aggression occurs. It did in 1990 when Saddam Hussein went into Kuwait. That was an exception. Other times, they completely confused who's the aggressor and who's the victim. And you make international crisis worse.

DOBBS: And as you point now your book, simply look upon them as warring parties with a neutrality that borders on the indifference, I suppose in the effect of their reaction. How much of this is institutional?

How much of it is systemic?

How much is a result of the personality of its leadership, specifically Kofi Annan, the secretary-general?

GOLD: Well, Kofi Annan recently did something that was just shocking. He wrote a letter to President Bush as well as to Prime Minister Allawi in Iraq. And even to Prime Minister Blair and said, please don't go into Falluja because it might undermine the election process. Now, wait a minute. If you just take one step back and go, you're telling the United States and Great Britain not to attack terrorist strongholds because having the terrorist strongholds will be better for the election process. There's some kind of faulty judgment here where you're blaming the people who are trying to defend world order and you're not doing anything about the people who are engaged in terrorism. That's what Allawi, Prime Minister Allawi wrote back to Kofi Annan a few days later.

DOBBS: Saying, he was as I recall, "a little surprised."

GOLD: A little surprised. Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

DOBBS: Idea that Kofi Annan has brought this Paul Volcker, a highly respected central banker, a great chairman of the Federal Reserve to pursue the Oil for Food scandal.

What do you expect to be the resolution there?

GOLD: Well, the problem is, as everyone knows, Paul Volcker doesn't have the right to subpoena material. And if you're going to conduct an investigation of this sort, what's a congressional investigation that might occur in the U.S. Congress, you need to get it right. You need get at everything. The U.N. does not have a really strong history of accountability, as you'll see in "Tower of Babble." And therefore I am not optimistic the Volcker investigation will come with much. I am more confident of the investigations going on under the U.S. Congress and hopefully the U.N. will cooperate with the Congress eventually.

DOBBS: Having until this point though showed no signs, even after two Democratic senators, two highly respected Democratic senators, Senator Coleman and Senator Levin, both wrote protesting what they called the stonewalling of the United Nations. You're not -- I sort of read between the lines here. You're not very hopeful that the United Nations will be forthcoming about?

GOLD: No. But let me just say one thing about the U.N. still. The U.N. does do important things and things like World Food Program, the World Health Organizations, specialized agency. But international peace and security, look back to the 1990s, we have serious problems. And now if Prime Minister Blair talks to President Bush, they talk about getting involved in the Middle East, keep the U.N. out. It'll make a mess of it if you put it into the Middle East equation as well.

DOBBS: Dore Gold the book is "Tower of Babble."

We thank you very much for being here.

GOLD: My pleasure.

DOBBS: The ailing health of Chief Justice William Rehnquist has raised the possibility that President Bush could appoint at least one Supreme Court justice during his second term. The likelihood is more. One potential candidate, however is certainly popular among conservatives, and he has very close ties indeed to this White House.

Bob Franken reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Former Bush solicitor general, Theodore Olson, is well aware he's being mention as a possible nominee for chief justice.

THEODORE OLSON, FORMER SOLICITOR GENERAL: They are using my name to scare small children.

FRANKEN: Olson wishes the current chief justice William Rehnquist a speedy recovery and is quick to say, there is no opening on the court. But if there is one...

OLSON: I don't think about things like that, I'm happy doing what I'm doing.

FRANKEN: As Olson made clear though, speaking before the conservative legal organization, the Federalists Society, he's given it a lot of thought.

OLSON: There may soon be a vacancy for the president to fill, perhaps two or three on the Supreme Court of the United States. The opportunity to change our cultural and legal landscape for a generation may therefore be a part of the president's victory last week.

FRANKEN: Olson argue the Bush side before the Supreme Court in Bush vs. Gore. After his wife Barbara Olson was killed on 9/11 in the hijacked plane that crashed into the Pentagon, he became as solicitor general, a principle advocates of the administration's arguments that the president had near unlimited the power to conduct the war terror and detain enemy combatants. Any nominee with strong conservative credentials can expect a tough fight in the Senate.

NAN ARON, PRES. ALLIANCE FOR JUSTICE: We don't want an individual who comes to the court with views that would essentially turn back the clock for all Americans.

OLSON: Make no mistake about it, any attempted new appointment to the court, especially that of a chief justice, will set off a political firestorm. FRANKEN (on camera): A warning perhaps that any effort to try and avoid a bitter confirmation fight by choosing a consensus nominee for the Supreme Court would probably be futile.

Bob Franken, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: And our poll question tonight, do you believe networks should broadcast programing with indecent language in prime time, referring obviously to ABC's airing of "Saving Private Ryan" tonight. Yes or no, cast you vote at cnn.com/lou. We'll have the results in just a few moments.

Still ahead, a messy mayoral race in California. Why they are still counting ballots in the city of San Diego more than a week after the election ended. It's about right ends and surfing.

And taking care our nation's veterans. Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Anthony Principi, is our guest. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: This broadcast was among the very first to report on the financial scandal that could force the city of San Diego into bankruptcy. Now this country's seventh largest city is in the midst of a bitter election battle as well. Votes in the mayoral race in San Diego are still being counted more than a week after the election, and an unlikely candidate appears to be in the lead.

Peter Viles reports from San Diego.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONNA FRYE, SAN DIEGO MAYORAL CANDIDATE: We will make sure that every vote is counted.

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Maverick politician, Donna Frye leads a three-way race for mayor of San Diego. Votes still being counted by hand, but a lawsuit seeks to stop the count and kick Frye off of the ballot. A Democrat best known as the wife of surfing legend Skip Frye, here he is on his long board. Donna Frye skipped the primary, a local lawyer sued, arguing the city charter bars last-minute write-in campaigns.

FRYE: City of San Diego has allowed write-in candidates for years, for years. The fact that this is being challenged has nothing to do with the law, it has to do with the fact that I will be the next mayor of the city of San Diego. And they don't like it.

VILES: The count today, 149,000 write-ins, thousands of those not yet verified as Frye votes, 146,000 votes for Republican Mayor Dick Murphy, Republican Ron Roberts is third. The mayor is hedging his bets, he won't say whether he'll accept the final vote count.

MAYOR DICK MURPHY, SAN DIEGO: I don't know what -- I don't know how that's going to end up. My point is let's see how this process plays out.

VILES: Roberts says the whole election was improper.

RON ROBERTS, SAN DIEGO MAYORAL CANDIDATE: My own personal opinion is this election should have never been allowed.

VILES: The hand count continues; roughly 30,000 absentee ballots yet to be counted.

(on camera): Now, whoever wins this election is going to inherit an absolute mess at city hall. A pension fund crisis so suspicious that the FBI is investigating, and so serious that some here have said the city has to consider at least filing for bankruptcy.

Peter Viles, CNN, San Diego.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: Well, as we mark this Veterans Day, my next guest has been working hard to overhaul veterans affairs in this country to prepare for a new generation of combat veterans returning from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And they're in addition to 25 million veterans who now live in this country. Joining me now is Anthony Principi. He's secretary of veterans affairs. And Mr. Secretary, thanks for being here.

ANTHONY PRINCIPI, SECRETARY OF VETERANS AFFAIRS: Good evening, Lou. It's great to be with you.

DOBBS: Let's begin with the issue, in a complaint that I hear from many of the veterans around the country, a sense that the Veterans Affairs Department, despite all that you have done, and it's been an extraordinary agenda that you have carried out over the last 3 1/2 years. They feel that you're not doing enough. What do you think?

PRINCIPI: Well, I think we're doing more than ever before. Clearly you can never really fully repay this debt, and as you look at the footage of those young marines in Falluja, you realize what extraordinary sacrifices men and women in uniform are making today and have made throughout our history. But we've treated a million more veterans in our health care system over the past 3 1/2 years. We are modernizing our health care system by building new hospitals where veterans are moving to and we've reduced the backlog of claims dramatically but I'm never satisfied, Lou. We need to do more. And I plan to stay the course.

DOBBS: And stay the course will mean more money. It will mean a greater commitment. What have you raised the budget now since coming into office? What is that, Mr. Secretary?

PRINCIPI: It's pretty dramatic, Lou. When I became secretary under President Bush my budget was $48 billion. Today it's close to $65 billion, going up to around $70, a little bit more than $70 billion in 2005 as soon as Congress passes the appropriation bill. So we've increased health care alone by over 40 percent and the overall budget has increased by a third. The largest dollar increase in the history of my department which goes back about 75 years. The demand for health care is great. The demand for benefits is great. And we need to continue to get the resources we need to get the job done.

DOBBS: The clinics that you're putting together, more than 100 around the country, the two VA hospitals that you're building. When is that all going to be completed?

PRINCIPI: Well, we have a seven-year modernization plan. We have 856 out-patient clinics today. We had virtually none just about ten years ago. And we're going to open up another 156 over the next several years but it's a seven-year plan. It's going to cost in the neighborhood of $1 billion a year to do the things that need to be done, to bring our health care system into the 21st century and not the century gone by.

DOBBS: And for those veterans who are watching the secretary of veterans affairs tonight on this Veterans Day, men and women who have served in Vietnam, who have served in conflicts around the world, can they turn to the VA hospitals, to the VA clinics and facilities, and be assured of care tonight?

PRINCIPI: Yes, they can be. They can go online, WWW.VA.GOV to learn about all of the benefits they've earned especially those coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan. They can contact their nearest VA medical center or clinic or regional office to get themselves enrolled. We're concentrating on the disabled and we're concentrating on the poor who have few if any other options for health care in this country. So that's our drive. To take care of those who need the health care and as high a quality as possible.

DOBBS: Anthony Principi, secretary of veterans affairs. Thank you for being with us especially on Veterans Day.

PRINCIPI: Thank you very much.

DOBBS: That brings us to tonight's thought. "The ultimate determinant in the struggle now going on for the world will not be bombs and rockets but a test of wills and ideas, a trial of spiritual resolve: the values we hold, the beliefs we cherish and the ideals to which we are dedicated.

Taking a look now at some of your thoughts.

Jerry McKeen in Bristol, West Virginia talking about our reporting on illegal immigration. "What is wrong with this picture? Our secretary of state and our homeland security secretary are traveling to a foreign country Mexico to discuss our immigration policy?"

And Norman Iversen of Brunswick, Georgia. "When are we going to be honest with ourselves? A Mexican will not cross the border unless he or she has a very good chance of finding employment."

We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs@CNN.com. Coming up next, a tribute to our veterans when we continue. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: And now the results of our poll tonight.

49 percent of you responding saying that you believe networks should broadcast programming with indecent language in prime time. 51 percent do not.

That strikes me as a familiar margin for some reason. Thinking back to election day.

Thanks for being with us here tonight. Please join us tomorrow as we continue our special reports on the Bush agenda. Tomorrow Social Security. Also my guests include former Bush speechwriter David Frum who says this is a critical and crucial to put partisanship aside in foreign policy. But first we leave you tonight with the sights and sounds as we honor our heroes on this Veterans Day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: 25 million military veterans walk among us and on this day our nation thanks them all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's important for all of us to support our troops. They need all the support they can get and we're here to give it to them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's an honor to be among some of the veterans here from World War II and the Korean War and Vietnam.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just puts a feeling in your heart. This is what I fought for, this is what I come back to. This is what I love, America.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired November 11, 2004 - 18:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOU DOBBS, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, American and Iraqi troops are storming remaining enemy strongholds in Falluja. An estimated 600 insurgents have been killed in the assault.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will be meritorious in this fight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ten-hut!

DOBBS: President Bush salutes our troops in Falluja and honors all our veterans on this Veterans Day.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our hearts are filled with respect and gratitude for the veterans of the United States of America.

DOBBS: Tonight, the secretary of veteran's affairs, Anthony Principi, is my guest.

Also tonight, the new Bush agenda. I'll be talking with Senator- elect Mel Martinez of Florida.

ABC will air "Saving Private Ryan" tonight, uncut, unedited, in prime time. More than 20 ABC affiliates are refusing to air the movie because of its violence and crude language. We'll have a special report.

And Yasser Arafat is dead. What's next in the Israeli- Palestinian conflict? PLO adviser Diana Buttu is my guest.

And is the United Nations a greater force for chaos than good? Former Israeli ambassador Dore Gold says the answer is yes. He's our guest tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Thursday November 11. Here now for an hour of news, debate, and opinion is Lou Dobbs.

DOBBS: Good evening.

Tonight, American soldiers and Marines and Iraqi troops have launched a new wave of attacks against remaining insurgent strongholds in Falluja. Our troops are fighting house-to-house and street-by- street, hunting down surviving anti-Iraqi forces. The military says 600 insurgents have been killed since this offensive began Monday.

Lindsey Hilsum of ITN is with the U.S. Marines in Falluja and has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LINDSEY HILSUM, ITN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gate to gate, door-to-door, breaking and entering, aware that any house may be booby-trapped or occupied by gunmen.

The unit we're with has spent the past four days pushing south through the Jolan district of Falluja.

This is violent work. If they can't open the gate any other way, they lay a charge and blow it.

Everything's seen as a potential threat. Cars are detonated, just in case they're car bombs. This one burned for half an hour or so.

And they are having to fight as insurgents leave an area and then creep back.

CAPT. BRIAN CHONTOSH, U.S. MARINE CORPS: It was the most resistance we had. Got across between some civilians and some bad guys.

HILSUM (on camera): What happened?

CHONTOSH: We shot a lot of bad guys and collected the civilians up really good and brought the civilians back. And the bad guys, there's a couple dead, and there's a couple back there right now, getting worked by our exportation teams.

HILSUM (voice-over): The units captured about 12 prisoners who have been taken away for interrogation.

Amongst the civilians they found was a child who'd been locked in a room. They also came across the bodies of five men who appeared to have been executed with a gunshot to the throat.

We saw just one body lying where he'd fallen. The unit leader says they've killed several insurgents.

CHONTOSH: Yes, we're finding a lot of weapons today. Today was the largest stockpiles of weapons. We've found about six, six sites. Some explosives. Couple of houses rigged to blow. Cell phones, a lot of cell phones. So we're finding the usual mix but not large quantities today.

HILSUM: Some weapons, like these rockets and rifles, are gathered up and taken away to be destroyed. Others left where they're found to be dealt with on the spot. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, you can tell because this was their sleeping bag. They've had some -- some I.D.s also and found some squibs here. And some -- several civilian (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right there. And basically this was their area right here, and they had a little area outside which they had set up as a fighting hole. They left in a hurry.

HILSUM: Amongst the weapons, those given by the Americans to the Falluja brigade, the Iraqi militia, who were meant to control the town, but then turned on their U.S. sponsors.

A few blocks of plastic explosives ensured that this cache met the same fate as the others.

The armored vehicles wreak their destruction, too. The Marine attitude is that such force is necessary, and whatever's demolished now, they can always rebuild later.

Insurgents may have pushed the people out of these houses some time back. Still it's strange to think that these are family homes, where ordinary people lived, now abandoned to war. Photos staring at no one. Once caged birds bewildered to be free.

(on camera): The soldiers are still going from house to house but now they're staying in the houses and holding them. The firefight is still going on. There is resistance in the surrounding areas.

Later on they'll start patrolling, to flush out the last of the insurgents, some whom they say came during the -- left during the night and then came back during the day.

(voice-over): American forces are consolidating their hold on Falluja, hoping they fatally wounded the insurgency in Iraq, not simply driven the rebels out of this town to set up in another.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: That was Lindsey Hilsum with the U.S. Marines in Falluja.

The Pentagon today released new casualty figures for our troops in Falluja. Officials said 18 of our soldiers and Marines have been killed; 178 troops have been wounded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. GEN. RICHARD NATONSKI, COMMANDER, 1ST MARINE DIVISION: Fighting continues this evening against the determined foes. But the forces of the coalition are more determined that we will be victorious in this fight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: General Natonski said the operation to clear Falluja of anti-Iraqi schedules is ahead of schedule.

Elsewhere in Iraq today, insurgents launched a new series of attacks. In Baghdad, a car bomb killed 19 Iraqis in a busy commercial section. That bomb went off shortly after an American military patrol passed by. None of our troops was killed or wounded.

And in the northern city of Mosul, insurgents stormed a number of police stations and set them on fire. There are reports that some police officers cooperated with insurgents. American and Iraqi troops did engage the enemy. It's not clear how many people were wounded or killed in that engagement.

Joining me now from Chicago is our military analyst, General David Grange.

Dave, good to have you with us.

GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: As you suggested last night here, the number of insurgents, anti-Iraqi forces killed, has risen and risen dramatically from those earlier reports to more than 600. Is it your expectation that we're going to see a significant body count as a result of this operation?

GRANGE: Lou, I don't know if it'll be significant. But there -- as they get closer to closer to pinching out the final pockets of resistance, they'll find more -- more dead enemy bodies.

And the cordon, the cordon is the security zone outside the city, will also scarf up or kill many fleeing because that's what they're trying to do at that time.

DOBBS: The issue of the cordon or the surrounding of Falluja, as you can best assess it, is that cordon in place and has that been successful in preventing the escape of insurgents from Falluja?

GRANGE: Lou, I believe a good portion of the insurgents most likely escaped before the forces got into place. But saying that, this is a mighty blow to the insurgents.

And I think what's more important in the physical dimension, in other words, the attrition warfare that's take place right now street by street, house by house is the effect, the moral effect it'll have by taking away the symbol, the stronghold, this image of strength of the insurgents away from them. That will have a deep moral effect on the enemy.

DOBBS: And the idea that so many of the enemy was apparently permitted to escape before this assault began, do you think that's appropriate strategy? Appropriate tactics?

GRANGE: No. I mean, you want to keep them all in one place and kill them. Insurgents like to fight in two and three person elements. They don't want to be in a big group. When they're in a big group, that's good for the coalition. That means you kill more of them in one place. You don't have to hunt them down.

But it may have been out of the control of the military because of political reasons and when they could start the advance or seal off the city from the normal daily life.

DOBBS: And General, I want to turn to the fact that this is a day in which we honor our veterans. And I want to congratulate you and wish you a very Veterans Day.

Is it your sense that we are doing all we should be doing for our veterans in this country right now?

GRANGE: Well, no. We're not. There's a lot more being done today than probably anytime in history but more can be done. And you know, it's 25 million veterans in the United States still alive from previous wars and of course, coming back from Afghanistan and Iraq today.

And medical disability, retirement, family support systems can all be improved.

But again, whatever Veterans Affairs and the retirement apparatus receives from Congress, the administration is what they have to live with. Those are the entities that make the decisions in how much support the American G.I. gets.

DOBBS: Now, General, I said we're going to congratulate you and wish you a happy Veterans Day. I think probably the appropriate thing is simply, especially on Veterans Day, is thank you.

President Bush today saluted our soldiers and Marines in Falluja. President Bush made those remarks during a Veterans Day ceremony at Arlington National Cemetery.

Senior White House Correspondent John King has our report -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And, Lou, it is tradition, of course, for this president and his predecessors to take the short trip from the White House across the Potomac to Arlington National Cemetery to take part in the ceremonies, paying tribute to those who have served this country in the armed forces.

Mr. Bush paying tribute to those who lost their lives in past conflicts, making note of the fact, as General Grange just did, that 25 million Americans are veterans walking the streets, going to work every day now. Mr. Bush paid tribute to them as well.

All four times, Mr. Bush has made this journey, he has been not only president but commander in chief of troops fighting the war on terrorism around the world. So not surprising at all that, as Mr. Bush paid tribute today, he paid special attention to those troops in harm's way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Some of tomorrow's veterans are in combat in Iraq at this hour. They have a clear mission to defeat the terrorists and aid the rise of a free government that can defend itself. They're performing that mission with skill and with honor. They are making us proud. They are winning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: As you can hear, the president optimistic there about the ongoing operations in Iraq. He will swap notes, if you will, and plot strategy on Iraq tonight. You see British Prime Minister Tony Blair there, leaving his side of the Atlantic to make his way to Washington.

He is due here at the White House later this hour for two days of talks with the president, dinner and casual conversations tonight, more formal discussions in the morning. The two leaders also will have a news conference. They will compare notes, plot strategy on trying to defeat the insurgency and bring security for the elections in Iraq.

And, Lou, the two men will also talk about a key European demand that Mr. Bush be more energized and apply more time and energy, if you will, to trying to get the Israelis and the Palestinians back into a peace process following the death of Yasser Arafat -- Lou.

DOBBS: John, thank you very much.

John King, our senior White House correspondent.

We'll have much more here on the Middle East after the death of Yasser Arafat in just a moment.

What is next in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? Diana Buttu, legal adviser to the Palestinian Liberation Organization, is my guest.

And is ABC crossing the line in choosing to broadcast a graphic, unedited war movie in prime time? Twenty ABC stations say yes. We'll have that special report next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat will be buried tomorrow in Ramallah in the West Bank after a military funeral in Cairo. Arafat died late yesterday in a French military hospital of an unknown illness. He was 75. Former Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas will replace Arafat as head of the Palestine Liberation Organization.

My guest is legal adviser to the PLO. Diana Buttu joins us now from Ramallah. Good to have you with us.

First, what is the mood there in Ramallah this evening?

DIANA BUTTU, LEGAL ADVISER TO THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY: Well, people here ARE incredibly saddened by the news of the death of President Arafat. People awoke this morning to hear the Koran being recited over the loudspeakers of mosques, while at same time hearing the chimes of bells from the churches, signifying that he is being mourned not only by Muslims, but by Christians as well.

People are wearing black in the streets, and many people are wearing the Palestinian kafia, the symbol, the scarf that President Arafat also worn. People have been lighting candles and carrying his picture. So the mood is incredibly sad. People are very, very saddened by the news of his death.

DOBBS: Diana, Mahmoud Abbas has been chosen to lead the PLO. Will there be, as envisioned, elections, and do you expect those to come off as orderly as regionally conceived?

BUTTU: Yes, I certainly hope that there will be elections. In fact, under the Palestinian Authority's constitution, it's the -- the person who's now taken control is the person who is the speaker of the legislative council, a man named Rawhi Fattouh, and he will be in charge for a period of 60 days as the interim president, during which time there will be elections held.

I am looking forward to elections being held. It will confirm a legitimate leader rather than somebody who is simply put into the place. I'm hoping that the United States will support those elections, and I'm hoping that Israel will not block those elections as it has done in the past.

We've already seen that two months that the Israeli's closed voter registration centers in Jerusalem. I'm hoping that they won't block these now.

DOBBS: Is it your sense that during this period in which Arafat will be buried, a period of mourning by Palestinians, that we will see a peaceful period in the West Bank and Gaza in Israel, Diana?

BUTTU: I'm certainly hoping so. You know, President Arafat has died, but what has not died is Israel's 37-year military occupation. That occupation is continuing as we speak. I'm hoping that there will be a period of calm, but, at the end of the day, what I'm really hope will emerge is the recognition that the violence is the result of 37 years of military occupation, and I'm hoping that the international community will make sure that that occupation finally ends.

DOBBS: Of course, Diana, no one can change what is 37 years past, but one can control the future, can't one?

BUTTU: Well, yes and no. The Palestinians are going to try to be able to control their future, but, at the end of the day, it's Israel who holds all of the cards. Israel's the party that is in military control over the Palestinians, and it's Israelis who's been denying the Palestinians of their freedom. The Palestinians will certainly try to do their best, but, at the end of the day, I think it's important to recognize the power and balance.

DOBBS: Diana Buttu, thank you very much, from Ramallah.

Coming up next, how far is too far on primetime network television? ABC broadcasting a war movie with graphic violence and crude language in primetime tonight. We'll have that special report.

And a power shift in Washington. Senator-elect Mel Martinez of Florida among those who has shifted the power. He joins me to talk about the Bush agenda and his own aspirations as U.S. senator from Florida.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: British Prime Minister Tony Blair has just arrived at Andrews Air Force Base outside Washington. The prime minister will go to the White House within the hour. He'll be there for two days talking with the president. Blair has said Middle East peace will be one of his top priorities in discussions with President Bush.

Turning now to a controversy over indecent language and violence on primetime television. ABC will broadcast a graphic, uncut, unedited version of the World War II film "Saving Private Ryan" in primetime tonight. A number of ABC affiliates all across the country are refusing to air the movie. They cite battle scenes and obscene language that are simply too crude for a primetime audience.

Bill Tucker has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL TUCKER, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The violence and profanity of war not acceptable on ABC affiliates owned by E.W. Scripps, Citadel Communications, Velo Corporation and a handful of independent affiliates. Moral outrage? No. Script's released a statement saying that "recent decisions by the Federal Communications Commission made it clear the type of profanity used in the movie is unacceptable to air."

ABC executives kept a low profile, but released a statement saying that they are "proud to once again broadcast the Oscar-winning film" and that "the broadcast will contain clear advisories and parental guidelines."

Yes,"Saving Private Ryan" has aired twice already on ABC, but the last time was back in November of 2002. Since October of last year, the FCC has levied fines of nearly $4 million against radio and TV stations for violating its indecency rules. And the last set of fines in October were handed down against Fox affiliates for airing an episode of "Married by America."

Whatever the reason, financial or moral, groups which oppose the broadcast of the movie are glad the message that profanity and violence is not acceptable in primetime is being heard.

RANDY SHARP, AMERICAN FAMILY ASSOCIATION: America has woken up, and we've seen that the networks have started going down that slippery slope, getting worse and worse and worse, and there has to be a line drawn in the sand. Bono set that line, Janet Jackson set that line, and "Private Ryan" is going to cross that line, if it is aired unedited tonight. TUCKER: The Parents Television Council, which is ordinarily a voice against violence and strong language in primetime, doesn't oppose the airing of the movie, but would have liked to have seen ABC handle the presentation in a better ways.

BRENT BOZELL, PARENTS TELEVISION COUNCIL: There are other things ABC could have done. ABC could have and should have aired this movie at 9:00 p.m., not 8:00 p.m. at the start of the family hour.

TUCKER: FCC policy is not to preempt broadcasts, but to react to complaints.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCKER: ABC says in the event of any fines, if there are fines, that it will cover them for its affiliates. But then it goes on to note that the film has already aired twice and that it has the backing of the Parents Television Council.

And, Lou, they also add tonight's presentation is introduced by Senator John McCain.

DOBBS: Well, that would be helpful to their cause, but it's clear that ABC is engaging on this issue, is it not?

TUCKER: It is indeed, and they clearly feel very strongly that this is something that they can do and that they can get away with. The last two airings, Lou, they only got one complaint.

DOBBS: As they say, a different time, same channel.

Thanks a lot.

That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. Do you believe networks should broadcast programming with indecent language in primetime? Yes or no. Cast your vote at cnn.com/lou. We'll have the results later in the broadcast.

Coming up here tonight, power shift in Congress. Power shift in Washington. One of six new Republican senators heading to Washington, D.C., is Mel Martinez of Florida. The senator-elect is my guest next.

And then, a scathing new book on the United Nations and its role in global chaos and even terrorism. Its author is former Israeli Ambassador to the United Nations Dore Gold. He says the U.N. has only added to problems around the world.

All of that and a great deal more still ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here now for more news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.

DOBBS: In just a moment, I'll be talking with newly elected senator from Florida, Mel Martinez, but first, let's take a look at some of the top stories in the news tonight.

More unrest in the Ivory Coast. As France evacuates hundreds more people, several other western states following suit. That after clashes between the government of the Ivory Coast and French peacekeepers. Urgent peace talks held today trying to avoid a full- scale war in the country.

The Roman Catholic diocese of Spokane, Washington, will become the third in the country to file for bankruptcy since July. The bishop of Spokane plans to file later this month. The bankruptcy comes as 19 sexual abuse lawsuits have been brought by 58 plaintiffs in the diocese.

And attorneys for Senator John Kerry are investigating alleged voting irregularities in Ohio. Those attorneys say every vote must be counted. The Kerry campaign goes to great lengths to say that it is in no way challenging the results of the presidential election. Ohio's 20 electoral votes went to President Bush, giving him enough votes to win.

Tonight, we continue our special report on the president's agenda over the next four years. President Bush says one of his goals is to fight rising health-care costs and the frivolous lawsuits that he says are to blame.

Lisa Sylvester reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One of the president's first priorities is medical malpractice reform, capping noneconomic and punitive damages. Doctors argue rising malpractice insurance rates are driving them out of business, leaving their communities underserved.

LARRY SMARR, PHYSICIANS INSURERS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA: There is a lot of meritless litigation, and something needs to be done to stop this lottery system that fully 40 percent of all the money available to pay plaintiffs is sucked off by the plaintiff lawyer.

SYLVESTER: Democrats say insurance companies are to blame for the high rates, not the jury awards. Less controversial is a plan President Bush promoted on the campaign trail, to create health savings accounts. Uninsured Americans would get tax breaks to buy high deductible, low premium insurance plans. It's part of an overall philosophy that shifts health care choices and costs to individuals.

BLENDON: The president has the strongest commitment of any president in years to really encouraging market incentives where individuals take responsibility of their own health care, make more of their choices, and at the same time, pay actually directly more of their bills.

SYLVESTER: But as the government moves away from the health care business, critics worry that existing entitlements like Medicare and Medicaid could be reduced, increasing the number of uninsured. POLLACK: There are there 51 million people who today count on Medicaid as their health lifeline. So if that program gets cut, we're going to see a lot of people who can't get coverage through their employer and can't afford coverage on their own losing coverage.

SYLVESTER: Medicaid cuts and tort reform failed to move through Congress this year. But with more Republicans in office, the equation changes in the next congressional session.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: Another area that will be debated is prescription drug importation. The Bush administration opposes allowing people to buy medicine from Canada, but lawmakers may move ahead anyway under pressure from their constituents, Lou.

DOBBS: Thank you, Lisa.

President Bush has called my next guest the embodiment of the American dream. Mel Martinez last week became the first Cuban- American to be elect to the United States Senate. He will serve the state of Florida, of course, Senator-elect Martinez is the former secretary of housing and urban development in the Bush administration. And he joins us tonight from Orlando. Good to have you with us.

MEL MARTINEZ, (R-FL), SENATOR-ELECT: Thank you, Lou. Good to be with you.

DOBBS: How does it feel to hear the term senator elect?

MARTINEZ: It sounds really good. We worked awfully hard it get there. And I am very proud to have that title.

DOBBS: An extraordinarily close election as the country indeed knows. What do you think was the pivotal issue in determining the outcome?

MARTINEZ: Well, I think a lot of analysis has been done throughout the nation about the attitude of voters. But I think the war on terror was the single issue in Florida that drove the election. I think people were very concerned about safety and security. And I think, obviously, the issue of the whole moral agenda I think also played a significant role in Florida as it did in other parts.

DOBBS: You support the idea of a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. Your opponent in the election for that Senate seat did not. How critical was that?

MARTINEZ: You know, I don't know that that was the driving issue, but I think it was one several issues that created a composite of moral issues that people were concerned about. And I think that played a role in it. But it was a very close election. I think at the end of the day, a significant turnout of Hispanic voters, Cuban- Americans, particularly. And a lot of those who were even Democrats crossed over to vote for me. And I think that was equally important. So, I thought it was a good showing of the Hispanic vote in Florida. DOBBS: Good showing of the Hispanic vote, as you say. Yet President Bush won by a five-point margin. And you by a very narrow margin. Does that give you any pause at all?

MARTINEZ: Well, unquestionably, I ran closest to the president of any of the other Republican candidates that won in terms of the differential between his vote and mine. And so I think that we always thought that we would run behind the president. I know some people thought we would run ahead of the president, but that's an awfully tall order to accomplish in a presidential year, I think senatorial candidates typically run behind the president.

DOBBS: And as you reflect on the Bush agenda, one of the issues that the president's obviously made a huge issue of, already by sending two cabinet secretaries to Mexico City is immigration.

MARTINEZ: Yes.

DOBBS: Do you believe, honestly, that this immigration policy, or lack of it, can be altered in the course of the next year or so?

MARTINEZ: I think we really need gave an honest try. I think that is a real serious problem in the country. We need to continue strong border enforcement, but at the same time, we deal with the people that are already here, that are already working, that our economy needs to be part of the work force. We need to somehow regularize their status so they can work here and then be about the business of contributing to our economy as they do now, but also they can themselves perceive the benefit of that. They can work over the table, not under the table.

DOBBS: Yes. The fact is, the word amnesty is a lightning rod in Washington, D.C., indeed around the country. Do you support amnesty for illegal aliens, 15 million of them in this country?

MARTINEZ: I really don't think amnesty can be the answer. I heard an earful of that in the course of the campaign. I understand how the people of Florida feel on that one. And I promise you, there is no support for amnesty around this state and I cannot support it.

But I do think some sort a worker status for some period of time. What people don't want to do is reward the illegal entry into the country with then a path to citizenship. But once they're here, they're working, they're productive citizens. They're not here to take, but to contribute, then I think a worker status is appropriate. And I think that's where the president is headed.

DOBBS: And the president has set a bold agenda. Are you in absolute -- are you absolutely in harmony with the president on the issue of Social Security, partial, minor privatization, simplifying tax reform?

MARTINEZ: I think we need to do some of those things. I would always want to see the proposals in the specifics in this. It's always in agreement generally, but I think the details is always where the problems come in. So, look forward to being a supporter of the reform of Social Security. I think some private accounts is a good idea for younger workers.

But people in my state are very concerned to making sure that the senior citizens who are in our state, can continue to get the benefits without any threat or any problem to that. And additionally to that, people that are facing retirement years they also need to be assured that their Social Security is going to be there for them without any changes.

DOBBS: Mel Martinez, senator-elect from the state of Florida, congratulations.

MARTINEZ: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: Thanks for being with us.

Still ahead here tonight, a former Israeli ambassador to the United Nations calls the U.N. "The Tower of Babble." Dore Gold will join me to talk about his critical new book "Tower of Babble."

And President Bush and all Americans honor the millions of men and women who have served this country in uniform. On this Veteran's Day, we're joined by the Secretary of Veteran's Affairs, Anthony Principi. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Former Israeli ambassador to the United Nations, Dore Gold's new book is nothing less than a scathing indictment of the United Nations. The book is entitled "Tower of Babble." And it accuses the United Nations straight out of fueling global chaos. Gold argues that when it comes to advancing international peace and security, the United Nations is simply a failure. And Ambassador Gold joins me now. Good to have you with us.

DORE GOLD, "TOWER OF BABBLE": A pleasure to be here.

DOBBS: In your book, you don't hold anything back. Straightforward accountability for Rwanda, for Bosnian atrocities, the issue of the way in which the U.N. is organized contributing to chaos. Are you intrinsically opposed to the idea of the United Nations?

GOLD: I think the United Nations is a great idea. I think initially when Franklin Roosevelt and Winston Churchill conceived of the United Nations at the end of World War II, they had an idea. We need to have a world body that can nip aggression in the bud and prevent a replay of World War II.

But here's the problem, the U.N. systematically cannot identify when aggression occurs. It did in 1990 when Saddam Hussein went into Kuwait. That was an exception. Other times, they completely confused who's the aggressor and who's the victim. And you make international crisis worse.

DOBBS: And as you point now your book, simply look upon them as warring parties with a neutrality that borders on the indifference, I suppose in the effect of their reaction. How much of this is institutional?

How much of it is systemic?

How much is a result of the personality of its leadership, specifically Kofi Annan, the secretary-general?

GOLD: Well, Kofi Annan recently did something that was just shocking. He wrote a letter to President Bush as well as to Prime Minister Allawi in Iraq. And even to Prime Minister Blair and said, please don't go into Falluja because it might undermine the election process. Now, wait a minute. If you just take one step back and go, you're telling the United States and Great Britain not to attack terrorist strongholds because having the terrorist strongholds will be better for the election process. There's some kind of faulty judgment here where you're blaming the people who are trying to defend world order and you're not doing anything about the people who are engaged in terrorism. That's what Allawi, Prime Minister Allawi wrote back to Kofi Annan a few days later.

DOBBS: Saying, he was as I recall, "a little surprised."

GOLD: A little surprised. Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

DOBBS: Idea that Kofi Annan has brought this Paul Volcker, a highly respected central banker, a great chairman of the Federal Reserve to pursue the Oil for Food scandal.

What do you expect to be the resolution there?

GOLD: Well, the problem is, as everyone knows, Paul Volcker doesn't have the right to subpoena material. And if you're going to conduct an investigation of this sort, what's a congressional investigation that might occur in the U.S. Congress, you need to get it right. You need get at everything. The U.N. does not have a really strong history of accountability, as you'll see in "Tower of Babble." And therefore I am not optimistic the Volcker investigation will come with much. I am more confident of the investigations going on under the U.S. Congress and hopefully the U.N. will cooperate with the Congress eventually.

DOBBS: Having until this point though showed no signs, even after two Democratic senators, two highly respected Democratic senators, Senator Coleman and Senator Levin, both wrote protesting what they called the stonewalling of the United Nations. You're not -- I sort of read between the lines here. You're not very hopeful that the United Nations will be forthcoming about?

GOLD: No. But let me just say one thing about the U.N. still. The U.N. does do important things and things like World Food Program, the World Health Organizations, specialized agency. But international peace and security, look back to the 1990s, we have serious problems. And now if Prime Minister Blair talks to President Bush, they talk about getting involved in the Middle East, keep the U.N. out. It'll make a mess of it if you put it into the Middle East equation as well.

DOBBS: Dore Gold the book is "Tower of Babble."

We thank you very much for being here.

GOLD: My pleasure.

DOBBS: The ailing health of Chief Justice William Rehnquist has raised the possibility that President Bush could appoint at least one Supreme Court justice during his second term. The likelihood is more. One potential candidate, however is certainly popular among conservatives, and he has very close ties indeed to this White House.

Bob Franken reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Former Bush solicitor general, Theodore Olson, is well aware he's being mention as a possible nominee for chief justice.

THEODORE OLSON, FORMER SOLICITOR GENERAL: They are using my name to scare small children.

FRANKEN: Olson wishes the current chief justice William Rehnquist a speedy recovery and is quick to say, there is no opening on the court. But if there is one...

OLSON: I don't think about things like that, I'm happy doing what I'm doing.

FRANKEN: As Olson made clear though, speaking before the conservative legal organization, the Federalists Society, he's given it a lot of thought.

OLSON: There may soon be a vacancy for the president to fill, perhaps two or three on the Supreme Court of the United States. The opportunity to change our cultural and legal landscape for a generation may therefore be a part of the president's victory last week.

FRANKEN: Olson argue the Bush side before the Supreme Court in Bush vs. Gore. After his wife Barbara Olson was killed on 9/11 in the hijacked plane that crashed into the Pentagon, he became as solicitor general, a principle advocates of the administration's arguments that the president had near unlimited the power to conduct the war terror and detain enemy combatants. Any nominee with strong conservative credentials can expect a tough fight in the Senate.

NAN ARON, PRES. ALLIANCE FOR JUSTICE: We don't want an individual who comes to the court with views that would essentially turn back the clock for all Americans.

OLSON: Make no mistake about it, any attempted new appointment to the court, especially that of a chief justice, will set off a political firestorm. FRANKEN (on camera): A warning perhaps that any effort to try and avoid a bitter confirmation fight by choosing a consensus nominee for the Supreme Court would probably be futile.

Bob Franken, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: And our poll question tonight, do you believe networks should broadcast programing with indecent language in prime time, referring obviously to ABC's airing of "Saving Private Ryan" tonight. Yes or no, cast you vote at cnn.com/lou. We'll have the results in just a few moments.

Still ahead, a messy mayoral race in California. Why they are still counting ballots in the city of San Diego more than a week after the election ended. It's about right ends and surfing.

And taking care our nation's veterans. Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Anthony Principi, is our guest. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: This broadcast was among the very first to report on the financial scandal that could force the city of San Diego into bankruptcy. Now this country's seventh largest city is in the midst of a bitter election battle as well. Votes in the mayoral race in San Diego are still being counted more than a week after the election, and an unlikely candidate appears to be in the lead.

Peter Viles reports from San Diego.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONNA FRYE, SAN DIEGO MAYORAL CANDIDATE: We will make sure that every vote is counted.

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Maverick politician, Donna Frye leads a three-way race for mayor of San Diego. Votes still being counted by hand, but a lawsuit seeks to stop the count and kick Frye off of the ballot. A Democrat best known as the wife of surfing legend Skip Frye, here he is on his long board. Donna Frye skipped the primary, a local lawyer sued, arguing the city charter bars last-minute write-in campaigns.

FRYE: City of San Diego has allowed write-in candidates for years, for years. The fact that this is being challenged has nothing to do with the law, it has to do with the fact that I will be the next mayor of the city of San Diego. And they don't like it.

VILES: The count today, 149,000 write-ins, thousands of those not yet verified as Frye votes, 146,000 votes for Republican Mayor Dick Murphy, Republican Ron Roberts is third. The mayor is hedging his bets, he won't say whether he'll accept the final vote count.

MAYOR DICK MURPHY, SAN DIEGO: I don't know what -- I don't know how that's going to end up. My point is let's see how this process plays out.

VILES: Roberts says the whole election was improper.

RON ROBERTS, SAN DIEGO MAYORAL CANDIDATE: My own personal opinion is this election should have never been allowed.

VILES: The hand count continues; roughly 30,000 absentee ballots yet to be counted.

(on camera): Now, whoever wins this election is going to inherit an absolute mess at city hall. A pension fund crisis so suspicious that the FBI is investigating, and so serious that some here have said the city has to consider at least filing for bankruptcy.

Peter Viles, CNN, San Diego.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: Well, as we mark this Veterans Day, my next guest has been working hard to overhaul veterans affairs in this country to prepare for a new generation of combat veterans returning from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And they're in addition to 25 million veterans who now live in this country. Joining me now is Anthony Principi. He's secretary of veterans affairs. And Mr. Secretary, thanks for being here.

ANTHONY PRINCIPI, SECRETARY OF VETERANS AFFAIRS: Good evening, Lou. It's great to be with you.

DOBBS: Let's begin with the issue, in a complaint that I hear from many of the veterans around the country, a sense that the Veterans Affairs Department, despite all that you have done, and it's been an extraordinary agenda that you have carried out over the last 3 1/2 years. They feel that you're not doing enough. What do you think?

PRINCIPI: Well, I think we're doing more than ever before. Clearly you can never really fully repay this debt, and as you look at the footage of those young marines in Falluja, you realize what extraordinary sacrifices men and women in uniform are making today and have made throughout our history. But we've treated a million more veterans in our health care system over the past 3 1/2 years. We are modernizing our health care system by building new hospitals where veterans are moving to and we've reduced the backlog of claims dramatically but I'm never satisfied, Lou. We need to do more. And I plan to stay the course.

DOBBS: And stay the course will mean more money. It will mean a greater commitment. What have you raised the budget now since coming into office? What is that, Mr. Secretary?

PRINCIPI: It's pretty dramatic, Lou. When I became secretary under President Bush my budget was $48 billion. Today it's close to $65 billion, going up to around $70, a little bit more than $70 billion in 2005 as soon as Congress passes the appropriation bill. So we've increased health care alone by over 40 percent and the overall budget has increased by a third. The largest dollar increase in the history of my department which goes back about 75 years. The demand for health care is great. The demand for benefits is great. And we need to continue to get the resources we need to get the job done.

DOBBS: The clinics that you're putting together, more than 100 around the country, the two VA hospitals that you're building. When is that all going to be completed?

PRINCIPI: Well, we have a seven-year modernization plan. We have 856 out-patient clinics today. We had virtually none just about ten years ago. And we're going to open up another 156 over the next several years but it's a seven-year plan. It's going to cost in the neighborhood of $1 billion a year to do the things that need to be done, to bring our health care system into the 21st century and not the century gone by.

DOBBS: And for those veterans who are watching the secretary of veterans affairs tonight on this Veterans Day, men and women who have served in Vietnam, who have served in conflicts around the world, can they turn to the VA hospitals, to the VA clinics and facilities, and be assured of care tonight?

PRINCIPI: Yes, they can be. They can go online, WWW.VA.GOV to learn about all of the benefits they've earned especially those coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan. They can contact their nearest VA medical center or clinic or regional office to get themselves enrolled. We're concentrating on the disabled and we're concentrating on the poor who have few if any other options for health care in this country. So that's our drive. To take care of those who need the health care and as high a quality as possible.

DOBBS: Anthony Principi, secretary of veterans affairs. Thank you for being with us especially on Veterans Day.

PRINCIPI: Thank you very much.

DOBBS: That brings us to tonight's thought. "The ultimate determinant in the struggle now going on for the world will not be bombs and rockets but a test of wills and ideas, a trial of spiritual resolve: the values we hold, the beliefs we cherish and the ideals to which we are dedicated.

Taking a look now at some of your thoughts.

Jerry McKeen in Bristol, West Virginia talking about our reporting on illegal immigration. "What is wrong with this picture? Our secretary of state and our homeland security secretary are traveling to a foreign country Mexico to discuss our immigration policy?"

And Norman Iversen of Brunswick, Georgia. "When are we going to be honest with ourselves? A Mexican will not cross the border unless he or she has a very good chance of finding employment."

We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs@CNN.com. Coming up next, a tribute to our veterans when we continue. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: And now the results of our poll tonight.

49 percent of you responding saying that you believe networks should broadcast programming with indecent language in prime time. 51 percent do not.

That strikes me as a familiar margin for some reason. Thinking back to election day.

Thanks for being with us here tonight. Please join us tomorrow as we continue our special reports on the Bush agenda. Tomorrow Social Security. Also my guests include former Bush speechwriter David Frum who says this is a critical and crucial to put partisanship aside in foreign policy. But first we leave you tonight with the sights and sounds as we honor our heroes on this Veterans Day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: 25 million military veterans walk among us and on this day our nation thanks them all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's important for all of us to support our troops. They need all the support they can get and we're here to give it to them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's an honor to be among some of the veterans here from World War II and the Korean War and Vietnam.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just puts a feeling in your heart. This is what I fought for, this is what I come back to. This is what I love, America.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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