Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Death of Palestinian Leader Yasser Arafat; New Attorney General

Aired November 11, 2004 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING. Our top story continues today, the death of Yasser Arafat.
Palestinians regarding Arafat as a national hero. Israel had quite a different take. Live to Jerusalem in a moment for Israeli's reaction. It's our understanding, too, this hour, that Ariel Sharon will speak about this as well. So we'll bring you his comments.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Also this morning, what do we know about the man who's been tapped by the president to replace Attorney General John Ashcroft. White House legal counsel Alberto Gonzales once called the Geneva Convection as they applied to the Gitmo detainees, quote, "quaint." We're going to talk with both Republican and Democratic strategist about that remark.

HEMMER: Also today, there are more headlines from Iraq. I want to get the latest now from Heidi Collins, back with us after a few days out.

Good morning again, Heidi.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Unfortunately, not great headlines coming out of the Iraq, either.

A suicide car bombing in central Baghdad. The blast went off more than four hours ago, killing at least 19 people, wounding some 15 others. Iraqi police say a U.S. convoy may have been the target.

And more clashes between U.S. troops and insurgents in Falluja. Forces say they have found what's believe to be a hostage slaughterhouse and have freed one hostage held captive for at least 10 days.

In Redwood City, California now, another change in the Scott Peterson double-murder trial. A second juror has been dismissed from the panel this week. The jury now gets a new foreman. He's been identified as a firefighter who took almost no notes during the five- month trial, and occasionally looked bored during the testimony. He'll take over when the jury resumes deliberations, and that will be tomorrow.

For the first time in three months, the terror alert level has been lowered for parts of Manhattan. Federal officials credit additional security precautions with the change. Parts of Washington D.C. and northern New Jersey also being downgraded from orange, or high threat levels, to yellow or elevated. And in Washington, President Bush is set to meet with British Prime Minister Tony Blair. This is the president's first meeting with a world lead since winning a second term in office. The talks are expected to focus on reviving the Middle East peace efforts.

And within the next two hours, President Bush heads to Arlington National Cemetery in observance of Veterans Day, wreath-laying ceremony as always at this time of year.

O'BRIEN: Heidi, thanks.

Condolences pouring in now from around the world after the death of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. Arafat's body will be flown later this morning to Cairo for a military funeral. He died in Paris after weeks of poor health. Arafat will be buried tomorrow in Ramallah, where he is revered as the leader of the Palestinian cause for independence. The speaker of the Palestinian parliament, Rawhi Fattuh (ph), has been sworn in as the Palestinian Authority's interim president now. Elections to replace Arafat will be held within 60 days.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is expected to speak really momentarily about the death of Yasser Arafat.

CNN's Guy Raz is in Jerusalem with us for more.

Good morning to you, Guy.

GUY RAZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

Reaction here in Israel has been somewhat subdued. I would say a combination of ambivalence, caution and even to some extent some optimism. Now earlier this morning, the Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon did give a somewhat muted response. He failed to mention Yasser Arafat by name, but he pointed out that perhaps this could open a new chapter, a turning point as he describe it.

Now, Soledad, to many people, many observers of the conflict, for the past four years, it seemed to have been personified in a sense by both Yasser Arafat and Ariel Sharon, two figures who, to many people, really began to symbolize this conflict. Now, Ariel Sharon in his past four years in his tenure as prime minister has refused to meet with Yasser Arafat. The Israeli government essentially declaring him irrelevant and calling him an unfit partner for negotiating peace. This is a position that's been accepted by the United States as well.

But now, of course, with Yasser Arafat's passing, there's some speculation essentially that Israel's alibi, if you will, or excuse for not dealing with the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is essentially gone. And there is a considerable amount of speculation here in Israel that the government will now be forced to a certain extent to reassess its position on the negotiating peace with the Palestinians -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Guy Raz, in Jerusalem for us this morning. Guy, thank you -- Bill. HEMMER: Get back to that story in a moment. In the meantime, though, at 34 minutes before the hour, President Bush's top lawyer is first in line to become the next attorney general. The president yesterday nominating Alberto Gonzales to replace John Ashcroft. If confirmed by the Senate, Gonzales would be the nation's first Hispanic attorney general. That's the focus for this hour.

In Washington Democratic strategist Karen Finney is back with us.

And, Karen, good morning and welcome back.

KAREN FINNEY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning, Bill. Good to see you.

HEMMER: Also in New York City, Republican strategist Joe Watkins.

And welcome back to you as well, Joe.

JOE WATKINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thanks, Bill.

HEMMER: Want to start with Karen down in D.C. I have yet to hear a Democratic senator they will block his nomination. Is this a sure bet, Karen?

FINNEY: Well, I don't know if I'd say it's a sure bet. I mean, obviously, we're going to have to let the process unfold as it will. But I think so far, people are viewing this nomination as a positive sign. He's obviously going to be a far less polarizing figure than Ashcroft was, but there's still a lot we don't know yet about the judge's record. I mean, the kind of scrutiny that one might undergo to be the, as you called, you know, the president's lawyer, versus to be the top lawyer for the United States of America representing, you know, the Constitution and all of us. It will be a very different level of scrutiny than I think he may have seen before.

HEMMER: Democrats, Joe may hit on this memo he wrote about two years regarding the Geneva Conventions, and saying they don't apply right now to the Guantanamo Bay detainees. There are those who suggest that that attitude, interpretation, led to the abuse at Abu Ghraib, west of Baghdad.

Is this going to be a sticking point for him?

WATKINS: Well, I don't think so at all, Bill, really. That opinion actually -- that memo that he wrote to the president was actually a very thoughtful memo. I mean, he considered the fact that the war we're facing now with terrorism, a new kind of war. It's not the same war as before when the Geneva Conventions were still very important. In this war, we don't know who the bad guys are. They're not wearing uniforms, as in past wars, where you knew who the enemy was. They were clearly identified in past wars, not so now. And so he made I think a wonderful point.

This guy is really the embodiment of the American dream. Comes from a poor family, grew up in a household with no running water, no telephone, son of migrant parents, migrant workers, and went on to go to Harvard Law School and worked for the governor of Texas, and now for the president of the United States. I think he'll make an excellent attorney general.

HEMMER: Go ahead, Karen, but as you answer that, in terms of interpreting the law, Democrats come back to you, and they say, hey listen, John Ashcroft blurred the lines between civil liberties and the war on terror, Karen. Are you able to interpret at this point how Mr. Gonzales would act as opposed to John Ashcroft?

FINNEY: Well, actually, not. I mean, he is a relative unknown in this area. What we can do is take a look at, you know, the memo that he wrote and the path that led to the abuses at Abu Ghraib, and that needs to tell us a little bit of something how will he balance our civil liberties, because again, his client is not the president of the United States of America; his client will be the Constitution and the people of the United States of America in this role. And I think he will face some tough questions whether or not he can, not just on this issue, but also his position about the treatment of enemy combatants. What does that tell us about, you know, how he will treat our civil liberties?

I also think we'll be looking, though, at his record from his time in Texas. I know there are some questions that have been raised about briefs that he wrote in death penalty cases, and certainly conservatives will have questions about his positions on some social issues. (INAUDIBLE) questions from both sides.

HEMMER: If I could back up just a little bit, your first answer to Joe Watkins about this. Do you see key differences between John Ashcroft and Alberto Gonzales, because Karen's referring to the possibility that he's more of a moderate than Ashcroft has been?

WATKINS: Well, clearly, you know, he has a record. He was appointed to the Texas Supreme Court by then-Governor Bush, and his record is there for everybody to see. He wrote a number of opinions, certainly that folks may want to take a look at. But I think that, clearly, this is a man who will rightly divide the Constitution. The kind of person that the president wants in positions like this are people who will be impartial judges, impartial umpires, and who will strictly interpret the Constitution of the United States. And now Alberto Gonzales is going to do that. He's going to be a great attorney general.

HEMMER: We've got to run. I apologize about that.

Karen, I don't mean to put you on the spot. You were on the campaign trail for months with Elizabeth Edwards. She has done an interview talking about breast cancer. Can you offer us any update she is doing?

FINNEY: Well, as you had reported earlier, she has started chemotherapy. She's in good spirits. And you know, Bill, she's a very strong woman, as you, yourself, have seen, strong family, strong faith, so we're all expecting that Elizabeth is going to beat this. And obviously our prayers are with her, and with the family. HEMMER: All right, thanks, Karen. Joe Watkins, thanks to you as well.

WATKINS: Thanks so much, Bill.

HEMMER: (INAUDIBLE) also in D.C.

All right -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: We should add our voices to that, too, for Elizabeth.

Turning now to the Scott Peterson trial, though, the judge removed the jury foreman yesterday, a day after sending another juror home for apparent misconduct. Is the double-murder case now headed for a mistrial? Jury consultant Robert Hirschhorn joins us from Dallas, talking about these latest fairly dramatic developments.

Nice to see you, Robert.

Thanks for being with us.

ROBERT HIRSCHHORN, JURY CONSULTANT: Thanks for having me, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Let's begin at the beginning. Juror No. 5 is out. He was the foreman. Who is this guy? Tell me a little bit about him.

HIRSCHHORN: The one that's out was the J.D./M.D. As I call it, he's now DOA, dead on arrival -- he's gone. Every one of these jurors has invested a great deal of time. So being booting off the jury at this point is kind of like starting a marathon and not finishing it.

O'BRIEN: He's the one described as the meticulous one, as you say, the J.D./M.D., the lawyer, doctor guy, who was taking copious notes; even after some of the reporters stopped taking notes, he was still taking notes. Would that be good to have him off for the prosecution, or good for the defense that he's gone?

HIRSCHHORN: I think the note taker typically will benefit the prosecution, because the vast majority of the time, they're the ones who are putting the evidence on.

But you know, the interesting thing about note-takers is they're also the one that can find reasonable doubt. What I think is fascinating, is we know why the prior juror got kicked off. In fact, we know why the prior two jurors got booted. We don't know why this particular juror left, especially since he was the foreman. So I'm sure we're going to find out. It's going to be fascinating to learn why.

O'BRIEN: OK, now there's a new foreman. Juror No. 6 moves into the foreman position. Let's talk a little bit about him. He's a white male in his 30s, described as a firefighter, paramedic, and here's a completely polar opposite in the note-taking category, apparently. Didn't take any notes. Reporters described him as looking kind of bored through lots of the testimony? Who do you think this helps, the prosecution or the defense?

HIRSCHHORN: Yes, I've got to tell you, Soledad, this is fascinating, because as you pointed out, if there's anybody that's the exact opposite of the last foreman, it's this fellow.

Now the other interesting thing about this person is whenever you bring a new person into the mix, it kind of upsets the apple cart for a while. It's kind of like we remember as kids, when a new kid came into the class, the dynamics changed a little bit. So now that he's coming in, he is a firefighter, so he's going to have a great deal of respect and admiration by the fellow jurors. He could very well be a person that's a consensus builder.

And my sense is the prior foreperson, the J.D./M.D., may not be ale to build a consensus. Even though this person didn't seem to be particular interested in the trial, or not taking a bunch of notes, because of his job as a hero, a firefighter, he may very well be able to build a consensus and get the verdict that the judge is looking for.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the guy who was an alternate and who is now actually the replacement juror. He is a retired male, 53 years old. His son-in-law once worked at the Peterson's restaurant. Why in the world would someone anyone who has any kind of link -- and I think is a relatively strong link to the Petersons at all. How would they possibly get involved in this case? I mean, why not just pick somebody else?

HIRSCHHORN: Well, it's the same thing I tell my kids, Troy and Mickey, that what you want to do is you don't want to be close-minded, you want to stay open minded. And so part of the process is that this person was left out because both sides felt that he could, in fact, be open minded.

You know, what we all need to remember is that jury selection is not picking who you want on the jury Soledad; what you are doing is really deselecting; you're taking off the worst of the worst. So it could well be that there were a whole bunch of people a lot worse than this particular person, for either the prosecution or the defense. You would think off the top, just looking at it, you'd think he would be a good juror for the defense, but we'll wait and see.

O'BRIEN: Gauge for me the judge's reaction and response to all of this. How would you rate what he has done so far?

HIRSCHHORN: I think the judge is doing a great job. You know, you don't want this to turn into another Ito trial. Remember in O.J. Simpson, Judge Ito lost control, but my thought is, at this point, the judge has got to be sitting there saying to himself, Soledad, why didn't I go to medical school? Why did I have to get myself into this mess?

O'BRIEN: Lawyers everywhere, Robert, are saying that sometimes.

HIRSCHHORN: Yes, absolutely.

O'BRIEN: And the doctors who are saying, why didn't they go to law school.

HIRSCHHORN: Well, the idea is that he's trying to keep control on this trial. And you know, with these turn of events, the jurors are dropping like flies. It's a high-profile case. These kind of cases take on a life of their own. I'm sure there's a part of the judge that would pull the air out of his head if he had any, because you know the judge is bald, but he's got to be so frustrated that he can't get this trial to fruition.

But here's my prediction, Soledad, I really think the jury is going to come together, they're going to get together, working as a group, and I really believe they're going to reach a verdict.

O'BRIEN: We'll see about that, Robert. Robert Hirschhorn, joining us from Dallas this morning. Nice to see you, thanks.

HIRSCHHORN: Good to see you. Thanks, Soledad -- Bill.

HEMMER: In a moment, NASCAR gives the green light to a controversial advertiser. We'll tell you who that is in a moment.

O'BRIEN: Also, a disturbing series of events could put the Netherlands now at the center of international terrorism. We'll explain why.

HEMMER: Also why fear of the FCC could throw some cold water on some Veteran's Day celebration. All those stories still to come this hour. Back in a moment, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired November 11, 2004 - 08:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING. Our top story continues today, the death of Yasser Arafat.
Palestinians regarding Arafat as a national hero. Israel had quite a different take. Live to Jerusalem in a moment for Israeli's reaction. It's our understanding, too, this hour, that Ariel Sharon will speak about this as well. So we'll bring you his comments.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Also this morning, what do we know about the man who's been tapped by the president to replace Attorney General John Ashcroft. White House legal counsel Alberto Gonzales once called the Geneva Convection as they applied to the Gitmo detainees, quote, "quaint." We're going to talk with both Republican and Democratic strategist about that remark.

HEMMER: Also today, there are more headlines from Iraq. I want to get the latest now from Heidi Collins, back with us after a few days out.

Good morning again, Heidi.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Unfortunately, not great headlines coming out of the Iraq, either.

A suicide car bombing in central Baghdad. The blast went off more than four hours ago, killing at least 19 people, wounding some 15 others. Iraqi police say a U.S. convoy may have been the target.

And more clashes between U.S. troops and insurgents in Falluja. Forces say they have found what's believe to be a hostage slaughterhouse and have freed one hostage held captive for at least 10 days.

In Redwood City, California now, another change in the Scott Peterson double-murder trial. A second juror has been dismissed from the panel this week. The jury now gets a new foreman. He's been identified as a firefighter who took almost no notes during the five- month trial, and occasionally looked bored during the testimony. He'll take over when the jury resumes deliberations, and that will be tomorrow.

For the first time in three months, the terror alert level has been lowered for parts of Manhattan. Federal officials credit additional security precautions with the change. Parts of Washington D.C. and northern New Jersey also being downgraded from orange, or high threat levels, to yellow or elevated. And in Washington, President Bush is set to meet with British Prime Minister Tony Blair. This is the president's first meeting with a world lead since winning a second term in office. The talks are expected to focus on reviving the Middle East peace efforts.

And within the next two hours, President Bush heads to Arlington National Cemetery in observance of Veterans Day, wreath-laying ceremony as always at this time of year.

O'BRIEN: Heidi, thanks.

Condolences pouring in now from around the world after the death of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. Arafat's body will be flown later this morning to Cairo for a military funeral. He died in Paris after weeks of poor health. Arafat will be buried tomorrow in Ramallah, where he is revered as the leader of the Palestinian cause for independence. The speaker of the Palestinian parliament, Rawhi Fattuh (ph), has been sworn in as the Palestinian Authority's interim president now. Elections to replace Arafat will be held within 60 days.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is expected to speak really momentarily about the death of Yasser Arafat.

CNN's Guy Raz is in Jerusalem with us for more.

Good morning to you, Guy.

GUY RAZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

Reaction here in Israel has been somewhat subdued. I would say a combination of ambivalence, caution and even to some extent some optimism. Now earlier this morning, the Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon did give a somewhat muted response. He failed to mention Yasser Arafat by name, but he pointed out that perhaps this could open a new chapter, a turning point as he describe it.

Now, Soledad, to many people, many observers of the conflict, for the past four years, it seemed to have been personified in a sense by both Yasser Arafat and Ariel Sharon, two figures who, to many people, really began to symbolize this conflict. Now, Ariel Sharon in his past four years in his tenure as prime minister has refused to meet with Yasser Arafat. The Israeli government essentially declaring him irrelevant and calling him an unfit partner for negotiating peace. This is a position that's been accepted by the United States as well.

But now, of course, with Yasser Arafat's passing, there's some speculation essentially that Israel's alibi, if you will, or excuse for not dealing with the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is essentially gone. And there is a considerable amount of speculation here in Israel that the government will now be forced to a certain extent to reassess its position on the negotiating peace with the Palestinians -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Guy Raz, in Jerusalem for us this morning. Guy, thank you -- Bill. HEMMER: Get back to that story in a moment. In the meantime, though, at 34 minutes before the hour, President Bush's top lawyer is first in line to become the next attorney general. The president yesterday nominating Alberto Gonzales to replace John Ashcroft. If confirmed by the Senate, Gonzales would be the nation's first Hispanic attorney general. That's the focus for this hour.

In Washington Democratic strategist Karen Finney is back with us.

And, Karen, good morning and welcome back.

KAREN FINNEY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning, Bill. Good to see you.

HEMMER: Also in New York City, Republican strategist Joe Watkins.

And welcome back to you as well, Joe.

JOE WATKINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thanks, Bill.

HEMMER: Want to start with Karen down in D.C. I have yet to hear a Democratic senator they will block his nomination. Is this a sure bet, Karen?

FINNEY: Well, I don't know if I'd say it's a sure bet. I mean, obviously, we're going to have to let the process unfold as it will. But I think so far, people are viewing this nomination as a positive sign. He's obviously going to be a far less polarizing figure than Ashcroft was, but there's still a lot we don't know yet about the judge's record. I mean, the kind of scrutiny that one might undergo to be the, as you called, you know, the president's lawyer, versus to be the top lawyer for the United States of America representing, you know, the Constitution and all of us. It will be a very different level of scrutiny than I think he may have seen before.

HEMMER: Democrats, Joe may hit on this memo he wrote about two years regarding the Geneva Conventions, and saying they don't apply right now to the Guantanamo Bay detainees. There are those who suggest that that attitude, interpretation, led to the abuse at Abu Ghraib, west of Baghdad.

Is this going to be a sticking point for him?

WATKINS: Well, I don't think so at all, Bill, really. That opinion actually -- that memo that he wrote to the president was actually a very thoughtful memo. I mean, he considered the fact that the war we're facing now with terrorism, a new kind of war. It's not the same war as before when the Geneva Conventions were still very important. In this war, we don't know who the bad guys are. They're not wearing uniforms, as in past wars, where you knew who the enemy was. They were clearly identified in past wars, not so now. And so he made I think a wonderful point.

This guy is really the embodiment of the American dream. Comes from a poor family, grew up in a household with no running water, no telephone, son of migrant parents, migrant workers, and went on to go to Harvard Law School and worked for the governor of Texas, and now for the president of the United States. I think he'll make an excellent attorney general.

HEMMER: Go ahead, Karen, but as you answer that, in terms of interpreting the law, Democrats come back to you, and they say, hey listen, John Ashcroft blurred the lines between civil liberties and the war on terror, Karen. Are you able to interpret at this point how Mr. Gonzales would act as opposed to John Ashcroft?

FINNEY: Well, actually, not. I mean, he is a relative unknown in this area. What we can do is take a look at, you know, the memo that he wrote and the path that led to the abuses at Abu Ghraib, and that needs to tell us a little bit of something how will he balance our civil liberties, because again, his client is not the president of the United States of America; his client will be the Constitution and the people of the United States of America in this role. And I think he will face some tough questions whether or not he can, not just on this issue, but also his position about the treatment of enemy combatants. What does that tell us about, you know, how he will treat our civil liberties?

I also think we'll be looking, though, at his record from his time in Texas. I know there are some questions that have been raised about briefs that he wrote in death penalty cases, and certainly conservatives will have questions about his positions on some social issues. (INAUDIBLE) questions from both sides.

HEMMER: If I could back up just a little bit, your first answer to Joe Watkins about this. Do you see key differences between John Ashcroft and Alberto Gonzales, because Karen's referring to the possibility that he's more of a moderate than Ashcroft has been?

WATKINS: Well, clearly, you know, he has a record. He was appointed to the Texas Supreme Court by then-Governor Bush, and his record is there for everybody to see. He wrote a number of opinions, certainly that folks may want to take a look at. But I think that, clearly, this is a man who will rightly divide the Constitution. The kind of person that the president wants in positions like this are people who will be impartial judges, impartial umpires, and who will strictly interpret the Constitution of the United States. And now Alberto Gonzales is going to do that. He's going to be a great attorney general.

HEMMER: We've got to run. I apologize about that.

Karen, I don't mean to put you on the spot. You were on the campaign trail for months with Elizabeth Edwards. She has done an interview talking about breast cancer. Can you offer us any update she is doing?

FINNEY: Well, as you had reported earlier, she has started chemotherapy. She's in good spirits. And you know, Bill, she's a very strong woman, as you, yourself, have seen, strong family, strong faith, so we're all expecting that Elizabeth is going to beat this. And obviously our prayers are with her, and with the family. HEMMER: All right, thanks, Karen. Joe Watkins, thanks to you as well.

WATKINS: Thanks so much, Bill.

HEMMER: (INAUDIBLE) also in D.C.

All right -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: We should add our voices to that, too, for Elizabeth.

Turning now to the Scott Peterson trial, though, the judge removed the jury foreman yesterday, a day after sending another juror home for apparent misconduct. Is the double-murder case now headed for a mistrial? Jury consultant Robert Hirschhorn joins us from Dallas, talking about these latest fairly dramatic developments.

Nice to see you, Robert.

Thanks for being with us.

ROBERT HIRSCHHORN, JURY CONSULTANT: Thanks for having me, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Let's begin at the beginning. Juror No. 5 is out. He was the foreman. Who is this guy? Tell me a little bit about him.

HIRSCHHORN: The one that's out was the J.D./M.D. As I call it, he's now DOA, dead on arrival -- he's gone. Every one of these jurors has invested a great deal of time. So being booting off the jury at this point is kind of like starting a marathon and not finishing it.

O'BRIEN: He's the one described as the meticulous one, as you say, the J.D./M.D., the lawyer, doctor guy, who was taking copious notes; even after some of the reporters stopped taking notes, he was still taking notes. Would that be good to have him off for the prosecution, or good for the defense that he's gone?

HIRSCHHORN: I think the note taker typically will benefit the prosecution, because the vast majority of the time, they're the ones who are putting the evidence on.

But you know, the interesting thing about note-takers is they're also the one that can find reasonable doubt. What I think is fascinating, is we know why the prior juror got kicked off. In fact, we know why the prior two jurors got booted. We don't know why this particular juror left, especially since he was the foreman. So I'm sure we're going to find out. It's going to be fascinating to learn why.

O'BRIEN: OK, now there's a new foreman. Juror No. 6 moves into the foreman position. Let's talk a little bit about him. He's a white male in his 30s, described as a firefighter, paramedic, and here's a completely polar opposite in the note-taking category, apparently. Didn't take any notes. Reporters described him as looking kind of bored through lots of the testimony? Who do you think this helps, the prosecution or the defense?

HIRSCHHORN: Yes, I've got to tell you, Soledad, this is fascinating, because as you pointed out, if there's anybody that's the exact opposite of the last foreman, it's this fellow.

Now the other interesting thing about this person is whenever you bring a new person into the mix, it kind of upsets the apple cart for a while. It's kind of like we remember as kids, when a new kid came into the class, the dynamics changed a little bit. So now that he's coming in, he is a firefighter, so he's going to have a great deal of respect and admiration by the fellow jurors. He could very well be a person that's a consensus builder.

And my sense is the prior foreperson, the J.D./M.D., may not be ale to build a consensus. Even though this person didn't seem to be particular interested in the trial, or not taking a bunch of notes, because of his job as a hero, a firefighter, he may very well be able to build a consensus and get the verdict that the judge is looking for.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the guy who was an alternate and who is now actually the replacement juror. He is a retired male, 53 years old. His son-in-law once worked at the Peterson's restaurant. Why in the world would someone anyone who has any kind of link -- and I think is a relatively strong link to the Petersons at all. How would they possibly get involved in this case? I mean, why not just pick somebody else?

HIRSCHHORN: Well, it's the same thing I tell my kids, Troy and Mickey, that what you want to do is you don't want to be close-minded, you want to stay open minded. And so part of the process is that this person was left out because both sides felt that he could, in fact, be open minded.

You know, what we all need to remember is that jury selection is not picking who you want on the jury Soledad; what you are doing is really deselecting; you're taking off the worst of the worst. So it could well be that there were a whole bunch of people a lot worse than this particular person, for either the prosecution or the defense. You would think off the top, just looking at it, you'd think he would be a good juror for the defense, but we'll wait and see.

O'BRIEN: Gauge for me the judge's reaction and response to all of this. How would you rate what he has done so far?

HIRSCHHORN: I think the judge is doing a great job. You know, you don't want this to turn into another Ito trial. Remember in O.J. Simpson, Judge Ito lost control, but my thought is, at this point, the judge has got to be sitting there saying to himself, Soledad, why didn't I go to medical school? Why did I have to get myself into this mess?

O'BRIEN: Lawyers everywhere, Robert, are saying that sometimes.

HIRSCHHORN: Yes, absolutely.

O'BRIEN: And the doctors who are saying, why didn't they go to law school.

HIRSCHHORN: Well, the idea is that he's trying to keep control on this trial. And you know, with these turn of events, the jurors are dropping like flies. It's a high-profile case. These kind of cases take on a life of their own. I'm sure there's a part of the judge that would pull the air out of his head if he had any, because you know the judge is bald, but he's got to be so frustrated that he can't get this trial to fruition.

But here's my prediction, Soledad, I really think the jury is going to come together, they're going to get together, working as a group, and I really believe they're going to reach a verdict.

O'BRIEN: We'll see about that, Robert. Robert Hirschhorn, joining us from Dallas this morning. Nice to see you, thanks.

HIRSCHHORN: Good to see you. Thanks, Soledad -- Bill.

HEMMER: In a moment, NASCAR gives the green light to a controversial advertiser. We'll tell you who that is in a moment.

O'BRIEN: Also, a disturbing series of events could put the Netherlands now at the center of international terrorism. We'll explain why.

HEMMER: Also why fear of the FCC could throw some cold water on some Veteran's Day celebration. All those stories still to come this hour. Back in a moment, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com